Re: [Elecraft] "Real" CW
Actually, I think they were called "mils"--only 1 "L". They were much like a standard typewriter, but only had capital letters--no switching from lower to upper case. They looked a lot like the old Underwoods you often see. I used them quite a bit in the Army. There may have been a shift key for some punctuation (I honestly can't remember), but I think standard punctuation was available on separate keys. Although typing was not a skill we taught in radio school, most of the CW operators rapidly acquired a reasonable dexterity with a mil, even if it was "two fingered". Fortunately, I took typing in high school, so using a mil was not difficult for me. We required a mil to be used for copying messages in the Berlin radio room so that the message would be readable (we didn't teach penmanship either!). Since the advent of computers, these have surely become relics. However, you will see one advertised for sale now and then. Dave W7AQK - Original Message - From: "Fred Jensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Elecraft Reflector" Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] "Real" CW Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: And lastly, that is a pre-computer state-of-the-art manual message printing system the operator uses to create hard copy. We called 'em "typewriters". Some of us called them "mills." Passed up a chance to get one ... too many kids in the house at the time so not enough money :-( The KSM story is at www.radiomarine.org 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2009 Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2008 - www.cqp.org ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] "Real" CW
Right-O Fred, and that was probably a "mill" (typewriter with only upper case characters). Ron -Original Message- Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: > And lastly, that is a pre-computer state-of-the-art manual message > printing system the operator uses to create hard copy. We called 'em > "typewriters". Some of us called them "mills." Passed up a chance to get one ... too many kids in the house at the time so not enough money :-( The KSM story is at www.radiomarine.org 73, Fred K6DGW ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] "Real" CW
Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: And lastly, that is a pre-computer state-of-the-art manual message printing system the operator uses to create hard copy. We called 'em "typewriters". Some of us called them "mills." Passed up a chance to get one ... too many kids in the house at the time so not enough money :-( The KSM story is at www.radiomarine.org 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2009 Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2008 - www.cqp.org ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] "Real" CW
Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: The speeds and procedure is typical of commercial shipboard operations. Those interested in CW might enjoy noting the speeds involved. Many Hams would consider that slow. At the end you'll hear the coastal station go back to it's "CQ Wheel" inviting ships to call. That's automated and faster - about 20 wpm. But traffic handling speeds are typically much slower as demonstrated here. Commercial operators know that slower speeds overall meant faster communications since fewer fills (repeats) are needed. Note how the operator uses QSK to get his fills efficiently. Maybe the coastal station even ran full duplex, which is possible when the transmitter is located miles from the receiving site. Now that is the ultimate in QSK -- even the K3 can't do it! -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] REAL CW!!
There were one or two interesting signals there last night, one sounded almost like spark! I prefer a wide setting for most of the time. David G3UNA G4BP/P - Original Message - From: "John GM4SLV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2007 10:18 AM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] REAL CW!! It's HF CW field day in Europe and sitting on 20m (albeit not in great shape propagation wise) with a wide filter is great fun... Cheers, John GM4SLV ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] REAL CW!!
On Tue, 29 May 2007 14:01:56 -0700 "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Much has been written on this reflector about the sound of the > sidetone, particularly the K2's sidetone, and about stability and > narrow band clickless keying, stable signals, with today's operators > asking for razor-sharp selectivity in order to copy signals in a > crowded band. > > Here are some recordings of actual COMMERCIAL CW maritime signals on > the 600 meter (500 KHz) band from the 1970's in European waters > > http://www.n1ea.coastalradio.org.uk/W1DM_500_EU_74.zip > I've been listening to the various recordings here and enjoying them enormously! Can someone develop a K2 mod to give us (switchable) control of the CW quality - I like the rich variety of signals on these recordings. The bands these days sound a bit too perfect with all the T9X signals around! I suppose moving a large PSU near the K2 should give the AC modulation, how do we het the bullfrog on acid effect? It's much easier to copy a rough, chirpy signal in the QRM because it stands out from the norm. Some of the fists on the recordings were "interesting" too! I've just recalibrated my K2 filters to give me a widest CW filter at 1.5KHz so I can re-create the "wide open - hear everything" feel! It's HF CW field day in Europe and sitting on 20m (albeit not in great shape propagation wise) with a wide filter is great fun... Cheers, John GM4SLV ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] REAL CW!!
On Wed, 2007-05-30 at 06:08 +, Ken Kopp wrote: > Was R/O on several USC&GS/NOAA ships and "hung out" > at WPD in Tampa. Lots of 400 - 500 kHz time. Tx was a > TBL with M/G set in the "basement". (:-) > > Anyone know where I could find an RCA 8506 ... or an 8510? > Or the Mackay equivalent/s? Google doesn't even turn one up! Yes, it is good to hear that stuff again. I spent a lot of time sailing as R/O in the late 1980s, running between Rotterdam and the USA east coast. 500 KHz was fun. Also spent a lot of time in the Med during that era. There were a kazillion of those tiny coastwise freighters and all of them buzzing, chirping and honking away. Heh.. Ken, I've got Mackay gear but it's more "modern". 3020A receivers out of the MRU-35 console. Even an 8050 transceiver which is still in service on many of the MSC ships. I sailed the USNS Mendonca in 2003 (part of OIF) and we had the 8050 on board. Always liked the Mackay stuff.. 73, -Doug, W7KF ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] REAL CW!!
On Tue, 29 May 2007 20:28:48 -0700, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: >Ship owners never changed out something that worked, so as long >as the radio console was repairable (and there wasn't anything >that couldn't be fixed) they kept the same old console. Memories of all the old Victory ships that were pulled out of "red lead row" in the late '60s and into the '70s to ferry supplies to the war in SE Asia. At the height of that operation we were doing mandatory Safety Radio Inspections at the rate of four per day in San Francisco alone. For those "sparks" who were hams and had transceivers on board, very often the ham gear was better than the installed radio console equipment (ship's equipment could not be used for hamming although I'm sure that some tried...) -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] REAL CW!!
Wow, I listened to the "English Tea Party". Just as I remember it (including the SP-cops :-)). Thanks for these wonderful sounds from the past. 73, Arie PA3A (also ex - PJUB, PCOH, PCOB and some other ships callsigns) ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] REAL CW!!
Thanks Ron, Takes me back a LONG time ... Was R/O on several USC&GS/NOAA ships and "hung out" at WPD in Tampa. Lots of 400 - 500 kHz time. Tx was a TBL with M/G set in the "basement". (:-) Anyone know where I could find an RCA 8506 ... or an 8510? Or the Mackay equivalent/s? Google doesn't even turn one up! 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] REAL CW!!
I am generally a lurker here but I HAD to tell you, Ron D'Eau Claire, how much I enjoyed these links. I was called a "LID" in 1975 for less, and here 30 years later I feel better as I now have a defense. WOW what an eye (ear) opener! It brought back a vivid memory of my Uncle Jesse, who was a radio operator for the US Navy on an ocean going tugboat (forgot the name). It was 1967 or 1968 and we met him on his boat at San Pedro, California. He was just about to get off work but was copying 5 letter code groups to paper. He was writing these 5 letter codes with one hand and flipping the pages of a newly purchased Playboy magazine with the other, commenting at the pictures at the same time. I asked about it later and he said it became automatic after a while. He also said that the message was possibly classified but he never knew whether it was or not. Someone else decoded it. Again Ron, Thank you, this is great fun and infinitely enjoyable. I'm even going to bookmark that site. Tom Price WA6SUS -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron D'Eau Claire Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 2:02 PM To: 'Elecraft Reflector' Subject: [Elecraft] REAL CW!! Much has been written on this reflector about the sound of the sidetone, particularly the K2's sidetone, and about stability and narrow band clickless keying, stable signals, with today's operators asking for razor-sharp selectivity in order to copy signals in a crowded band. Here are some recordings of actual COMMERCIAL CW maritime signals on the 600 meter (500 KHz) band from the 1970's in European waters ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] REAL CW!!
These guys have it right, from what I saw. In the US maritime service the FCC kept increasing the rules for stability, signal purity, keying, etc., but the rules applied to when the equipment was manufactured, so an old console that drifted and yooped was legal as long as it was still in service. Ship owners never changed out something that worked, so as long as the radio console was repairable (and there wasn't anything that couldn't be fixed) they kept the same old console. On an old vessel in the early 1990's I found an ancient black RCA console. If you've not seen a shipboard radio console, there are pictures of one aboard a restored WWII cargo ship here: http://www.arrl.org/news/features/1999/0216/2/?nc=1 The vessel I was called to work on had been taken out of the "mothball fleet" to haul supplies to the Persian Gulf during Gulf War I and my eye was drawn to a little panel on the console marked "Crystal Detector" with space for a galena crystal and cat's whisker! You see, all radio consoles had both a main and a backup receiver as well as main and backup transmitters. At one time that crystal set was the "backup receiver". The crystal was long gone. The console had been "upgraded" to a regenerative receiver for use in case the main superhetrodyne receiver broke down in an emergency, but the panel to mount the crystal was still there. That's why MCW was required for all emergency communications: crystal sets don't have BFO's . Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fred Jensen Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 7:54 PM To: Elecraft Reflector Subject: Re: [Elecraft] REAL CW!! Mike Short wrote: > So why did they all sound so different? Was is operator preference or > equipment limitations that determined the tone? > > Mike > AI4NS > (Just a young pup. Only 8 years of ham radio with 25 years in between > licenses...) Hi there Young Pup, Equipment was different then, and really so aboard ship. Chirp and rough AC notes were common when I worked coastal marine in 57 [HS senior]. Shipboard power was often not the most stable you'd likely find today, radios tended to be old ... the recording was from the 70's, some of that equipment may have been pre-WW2 ... and operating condx weren't always all that great. The maritime service tended to sail their fleets until they rusted to the bottom. I had a hard time copying some of that and 50 years ago as a 16yr old, it would have been a slam dunk. We're used to incredibly stable receivers and transmitters, pure notes, perfect spacing of CW [well...maybe not on SKN :-) ]. Most then used bugs, but there were a number of straight keys as well, you can spot them in the audio clip. Many of the bugs were hard to slow down. Vibroplex's were notorious. Being a teen and very poor, my bug was a J-36 I'd found at Sam's Surplus Sales on Pico St in downtown Los Angeles. It was sort of proletarian-looking [OK, very proletarian], not shiny like those of my crew mates, but it could produce civilized dot speeds without added and ugly weights. The recording at Ron's first link, except for call signs, sounds like what I heard on 600m in the mid-20th century. Thanks for coming back to the hobby. We need you Mike. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2007 CQP Oct 6-7 - www.cqp.org ___ ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] REAL CW!!
Mike Short wrote: So why did they all sound so different? Was is operator preference or equipment limitations that determined the tone? Mike AI4NS (Just a young pup. Only 8 years of ham radio with 25 years in between licenses...) Hi there Young Pup, Equipment was different then, and really so aboard ship. Chirp and rough AC notes were common when I worked coastal marine in 57 [HS senior]. Shipboard power was often not the most stable you'd likely find today, radios tended to be old ... the recording was from the 70's, some of that equipment may have been pre-WW2 ... and operating condx weren't always all that great. The maritime service tended to sail their fleets until they rusted to the bottom. I had a hard time copying some of that and 50 years ago as a 16yr old, it would have been a slam dunk. We're used to incredibly stable receivers and transmitters, pure notes, perfect spacing of CW [well...maybe not on SKN :-) ]. Most then used bugs, but there were a number of straight keys as well, you can spot them in the audio clip. Many of the bugs were hard to slow down. Vibroplex's were notorious. Being a teen and very poor, my bug was a J-36 I'd found at Sam's Surplus Sales on Pico St in downtown Los Angeles. It was sort of proletarian-looking [OK, very proletarian], not shiny like those of my crew mates, but it could produce civilized dot speeds without added and ugly weights. The recording at Ron's first link, except for call signs, sounds like what I heard on 600m in the mid-20th century. Thanks for coming back to the hobby. We need you Mike. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2007 CQP Oct 6-7 - www.cqp.org ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] REAL CW!!
In a message dated 5/29/07 10:32:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > So why did they all sound so different? Was is operator preference or > equipment limitations that determined the tone? > Whole bunch of reasons. For one thing, a marine radio's first priority is reliability. Lives may depend on whether or not the radio works - not just the lives of those on that particular ship, either. And unlike aircraft or landbased radio, repairs are limited to what you have on the ship. So the radio gear is way overbuilt by landlubber standards, and signal quality isn't the first concern. Another factor is that while the radio is a vital piece of equipment, ship owners aren't eager to replace and upgrade them too often. Part of the reason is the cost of new radio gear itself, but a bigger cost is that the ship isn't making money sitting tied to the dock getting a new radio set installed, checked out and approved. So they tended to use the same old radio sets as long as possible, meaning that rigs of many different vintages were on the air at the same time. Still another factor is that for many sets the signal quality was influenced by how the rig was tuned up. If you've got a ton of traffic to pass and the weather is getting bad, you may not spend a lot of time tuning the rig for an absolutely perfect T9X signal when T8C will get the message through just as well. That's just what I've been told by the old salts who actually did it. 73 de Jim, N2EY ** See what's free at http://www.aol.com. ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
RE: [Elecraft] REAL CW!!
So why did they all sound so different? Was is operator preference or equipment limitations that determined the tone? Mike AI4NS (Just a young pup. Only 8 years of ham radio with 25 years in between licenses...) ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Re: [Elecraft] REAL CW!!
Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: Much has been written on this reflector about the sound of the sidetone, particularly the K2's sidetone, and about stability and narrow band clickless keying, stable signals, with today's operators asking for razor-sharp selectivity in order to copy signals in a crowded band. Here are some recordings of actual COMMERCIAL CW maritime signals on the 600 meter (500 KHz) band from the 1970's in European waters Cool Ron! The calls were different when I was a 16yr old in coastal marine [West coast of NA], but that *is* what 600m sounded like on the nighttime shifts. I'm so used to our current near-perfect spacing from keyers and computer-sent CW, I have to really concentrate to copy from that what I used to so easily. OK...I was younger then. A lot of fists-afloat were pretty bad. Mine on-shore was perfect, of course. I don't remember spark thank God, I'd be much older now if I did and likely dead. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2007 CQP Oct 6-7 - www.cqp.org ___ Elecraft mailing list Post to: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
