Re: [Elecraft] Amateur Station Operations - rag chews and macro clicks

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Thread closed.

While we encourage a wide range of primarily Elecraft related and some other OT 
amateur radio topics on this list,  in the interest of keeping list volume 
reasonable and intercourse polite, discussions and arguments regarding amateur 
radio policy etc should be moved to other forums for discussion.


73,
Eric
List moderator, really!
/elecraft.com/

On 3/16/2017 3:45 PM, Phil Wheeler wrote:
This list needs a "Don't read this thread" option. Pedantically quoting the 
Radio Regs and FCC regs seems a bit OT in an Elecraft list. It certainly has 
become tiresome! Perhaps the Moderator will agree.


Phil W7OX

On 3/16/17 3:01 PM, Colin wrote:

Going back to basics the Radio Regulations (2016) state -

1.56 amateur service: A radiocommunication service for the purpose of 
self-training,
intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by amateurs, that 
is, by duly authorized
persons interested in radio technique solely with a personal aim and without 
pecuniary interest.


1.57 amateur-satellite service: A radiocommunication service using space 
stations on

earth satellites for the same purposes as those of the amateur service.

and more specifically -

*ARTICLE 25*


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Re: [Elecraft] Amateur Station Operations - rag chews and macro clicks

[Phil Wheeler]

This list needs a "Don't read this thread" option. 
Pedantically quoting the Radio Regs and FCC regs 
seems a bit OT in an Elecraft list. It certainly 
has become tiresome! Perhaps the Moderator will agree.


Phil W7OX

On 3/16/17 3:01 PM, Colin wrote:
Going back to basics the Radio Regulations 
(2016) state -


1.56 amateur service: A radiocommunication 
service for the purpose of self-training,
intercommunication and technical investigations 
carried out by amateurs, that is, by duly 
authorized
persons interested in radio technique solely 
with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest.


1.57 amateur-satellite service: A 
radiocommunication service using space stations on
earth satellites for the same purposes as those 
of the amateur service.


and more specifically -

*ARTICLE 25*
Amateur services
Section I − Amateur service
25.1 § 1 Radiocommunication between amateur 
stations of different countries shall be 
permitted unless the administration of one of 
the countries concerned has notified that it 
objects to such radiocommunications. (WRC-03)
25.2 § 2 1) Transmissions between amateur 
stations of different countries shall be limited 
to communications incidental to the purposes of 
the amateur service, as defined in No. 1.56 and 
to remarks of a personal character. (WRC-03)
25.2A 1A) Transmissions between amateur stations 
of different countries shall not be encoded for 
the purpose of obscuring their meaning, except 
for control signals exchanged between earth 
command stations and space stations in the 
amateur-satellite service. (WRC-03)
25.3 2) Amateur stations may be used for 
transmitting international communications on 
behalf of third parties only in case of 
emergencies or disaster relief. An 
administration may
determine the applicability of this provision to 
amateur stations under its jurisdiction. (WRC-03)

25.4 (SUP - WRC-03)
25.5 § 3 1) Administrations shall determine 
whether or not a person seeking a licence to 
operate an amateur station shall demonstrate the 
ability to send and receive texts in Morse code 
signals. (WRC-03)
25.6 2) Administrations shall verify the 
operational and technical qualifications of any 
person wishing to operate an amateur station. 
Guidance for standards of competence may be
found in the most recent version of 
Recommendation ITU-R M.1544. (WRC-03)
25.7 § 4 The maximum power of amateur stations 
shall be fixed by the administrations concerned. 
(WRC-03)
25.8 § 5 1) All pertinent Articles and 
provisions of the Constitution, the Convention 
and of these Regulations shall apply to amateur 
stations. (WRC-03)
25.9 2) During the course of their 
transmissions, amateur stations shall transmit 
their call sign at short intervals.
25.9A § 5A Administrations are encouraged to 
take the necessary steps to allow amateur 
stations to prepare for and meet communication 
needs in support of disaster relief. (WRC-03)
25.9B § 5B An administration may determine 
whether or not to permit a person who has been 
granted a licence to operate an amateur station 
by another administration to operate an amateur 
station while that person is temporarily in its 
territory, subject to such conditions or 
restrictions it may impose. (WRC-03)


Section II − Amateur-satellite service
25.10 § 6 The provisions of Section I of this 
Article shall apply equally, as appropriate, to 
the amateur-satellite service.
25.11 § 7 Administrations authorizing space 
stations in the amateur-satellite service shall 
ensure that sufficient earth command stations 
are established before launch to ensure that any 
harmful interference caused by emissions from a 
station in the amateur-satellite service can be 
terminated immediately (see No. 22.1). (WRC-03)


I hope that helps

73

Colin, G3PSM
UK Delegate to WRC-03, WRC-07, WRC-12 and WRC-15

On 16/03/2017 21:02, Dauer, Edward wrote:


With all due respect, gents, section 97.1 is 
not what we in the legal biz call substantive.  
It is an introductory preamble included there 
originally for political purposes, and after 
enactment for purposes of interpreting the 
regulations that are substantive, when 
questions about interpretation arise.  The 
substantive regulations go from 97.2 ro 97.527, 
though there aren’t nearly 526 of them.  Those 
are the sections that tell us what we can and, 
about as frequently, what we cannot do.   The 
statement of purpose is legally speaking 
neither a grant of specific operational 
authority nor itself a limitation.


As for international communications, the 
proscription of some forms of political 
discourse was not uniquely a product of the 
Soviet Union.  The U.S. law is in 47 C.F.R. 
§97.117 “International communications:
Transmissions to a different country, where 
permitted, shall be limited to communications 
incidental to the purposes of the amateur 
service [namely, the list in 97.1] and to 
remarks of a personal character.”


I have not researched whether there are any 
judicial opinions or FCC pol

Re: [Elecraft] Amateur Station Operations - rag chews and macro clicks

[Colin]

Going back to basics the Radio Regulations (2016) state -

1.56 amateur service: A radiocommunication service for the purpose of 
self-training,
intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by amateurs, 
that is, by duly authorized
persons interested in radio technique solely with a personal aim and 
without pecuniary interest.


1.57 amateur-satellite service: A radiocommunication service using space 
stations on

earth satellites for the same purposes as those of the amateur service.

and more specifically -

*ARTICLE 25*
Amateur services
Section I − Amateur service
25.1 § 1 Radiocommunication between amateur stations of different 
countries shall be permitted unless the administration of one of the 
countries concerned has notified that it objects to such 
radiocommunications. (WRC-03)
25.2 § 2 1) Transmissions between amateur stations of different 
countries shall be limited to communications incidental to the purposes 
of the amateur service, as defined in No. 1.56 and to remarks of a 
personal character. (WRC-03)
25.2A 1A) Transmissions between amateur stations of different countries 
shall not be encoded for the purpose of obscuring their meaning, except 
for control signals exchanged between earth command stations and space 
stations in the amateur-satellite service. (WRC-03)
25.3 2) Amateur stations may be used for transmitting international 
communications on behalf of third parties only in case of emergencies or 
disaster relief. An administration may
determine the applicability of this provision to amateur stations under 
its jurisdiction. (WRC-03)

25.4 (SUP - WRC-03)
25.5 § 3 1) Administrations shall determine whether or not a person 
seeking a licence to operate an amateur station shall demonstrate the 
ability to send and receive texts in Morse code signals. (WRC-03)
25.6 2) Administrations shall verify the operational and technical 
qualifications of any person wishing to operate an amateur station. 
Guidance for standards of competence may be

found in the most recent version of Recommendation ITU-R M.1544. (WRC-03)
25.7 § 4 The maximum power of amateur stations shall be fixed by the 
administrations concerned. (WRC-03)
25.8 § 5 1) All pertinent Articles and provisions of the Constitution, 
the Convention and of these Regulations shall apply to amateur stations. 
(WRC-03)
25.9 2) During the course of their transmissions, amateur stations shall 
transmit their call sign at short intervals.
25.9A § 5A Administrations are encouraged to take the necessary steps to 
allow amateur stations to prepare for and meet communication needs in 
support of disaster relief. (WRC-03)
25.9B § 5B An administration may determine whether or not to permit a 
person who has been granted a licence to operate an amateur station by 
another administration to operate an amateur station while that person 
is temporarily in its territory, subject to such conditions or 
restrictions it may impose. (WRC-03)


Section II − Amateur-satellite service
25.10 § 6 The provisions of Section I of this Article shall apply 
equally, as appropriate, to the amateur-satellite service.
25.11 § 7 Administrations authorizing space stations in the 
amateur-satellite service shall ensure that sufficient earth command 
stations are established before launch to ensure that any harmful 
interference caused by emissions from a station in the amateur-satellite 
service can be terminated immediately (see No. 22.1). (WRC-03)


I hope that helps

73

Colin, G3PSM
UK Delegate to WRC-03, WRC-07, WRC-12 and WRC-15

On 16/03/2017 21:02, Dauer, Edward wrote:


With all due respect, gents, section 97.1 is not what we in the legal biz call 
substantive.  It is an introductory preamble included there originally for 
political purposes, and after enactment for purposes of interpreting the 
regulations that are substantive, when questions about interpretation arise.  
The substantive regulations go from 97.2 ro 97.527, though there aren’t nearly 
526 of them.  Those are the sections that tell us what we can and, about as 
frequently, what we cannot do.   The statement of purpose is legally speaking 
neither a grant of specific operational authority nor itself a limitation.

As for international communications, the proscription of some forms of 
political discourse was not uniquely a product of the Soviet Union.  The U.S. 
law is in 47 C.F.R. §97.117   “International communications:
Transmissions to a different country, where permitted, shall be limited to 
communications incidental to the purposes of the amateur service [namely, the 
list in 97.1] and to remarks of a personal character.”

I have not researched whether there are any judicial opinions or FCC policy 
statements that further explain that substantive rule.

All of that said, nothing that anyone has written in this thread which they 
enjoy or dislike seems to me to be outside the scope of our legal authority.  
**HOW** we do it technically and in some respects operationally (e.g

Re: [Elecraft] Amateur Station Operations - rag chews and macro clicks

[Dauer, Edward]

With all due respect, gents, section 97.1 is not what we in the legal biz call 
substantive.  It is an introductory preamble included there originally for 
political purposes, and after enactment for purposes of interpreting the 
regulations that are substantive, when questions about interpretation arise.  
The substantive regulations go from 97.2 ro 97.527, though there aren’t nearly 
526 of them.  Those are the sections that tell us what we can and, about as 
frequently, what we cannot do.   The statement of purpose is legally speaking 
neither a grant of specific operational authority nor itself a limitation.

As for international communications, the proscription of some forms of 
political discourse was not uniquely a product of the Soviet Union.  The U.S. 
law is in 47 C.F.R. §97.117   “International communications:
Transmissions to a different country, where permitted, shall be limited to 
communications incidental to the purposes of the amateur service [namely, the 
list in 97.1] and to remarks of a personal character.”

I have not researched whether there are any judicial opinions or FCC policy 
statements that further explain that substantive rule.

All of that said, nothing that anyone has written in this thread which they 
enjoy or dislike seems to me to be outside the scope of our legal authority.  
**HOW** we do it technically and in some respects operationally (e.g. 
deliberate interference) is of course subject to lots of rules.  But the rest 
is a matter of culture, tradition, preference, and simple operating courtesy.  
On those things I do not opine.  I do what I enjoy.  Within the scope of the 
substantive law, of course.

Ted, KN1CBR (and a lawyer)


--

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2017 17:44:16 -0700
From: "Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT" 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RTTY
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Okay, Kevin

Here is the appropriate section: 



I was told that basically there was no place for ragchewing in Amateur 
Radio -- no place at all.

97.1(e) says there is a place for a good ragchew.  Not sure where 
contesting comes in, but I'll stipulate that it can be fit into 97.1 
somewhere.

It does not say that every place is a good place for a ragchew, at any 
time.  It seems intuitively obvious that a DX pileup is neither the time 
nor the place.

You then compare typing on a keyboard to using paddles, and going back 
to the post just before mine, it was about using pre-programmed macros 
for a contest exchange.

The operators aren't really talking.  They're pressing two macro keys 
and making an entry in the log.

NO MATTER WHAT IT IS, WHAT YOU LIKE TO DO, SOMEONE WILL SAY "THIS ISN'T 
AMATEUR RADIO." 

I do respectfully disagree.

It may not be what I want to do, but I've seen the Full-Scan TV ops get 
very excited about their favored mode.  Moonbounce doesn't excite me, 
but it excites moonbounce enthusiasts.  Satellites?  Did it once, happy 
to know about it, not enough to really gear-up for it.

There is room for all of this in Amateur Radio.

... and I'm more than happy to do something else on big Contest 
weekends, and to steer clear of the pileups.

I won't name the person I quoted, but his technical contributions are 
significant.  He'd still rather carry on a conversation than just send 
macros.

In my opinion, it is a little bit sad that we have reduced communication 
to a couple of macros.

I don't require you to share that opinion, Kevin, nor will I deny you 
the pleasure of operating that way if it's what you love.

I won't ridicule it either.

73 -- Lynn

 

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