Re: [Elecraft] Audio Mixers

[Mark, KE6BB via Elecraft]

Re  Audio mixers that do exactly this are ubiquitous in aircraft. 
Aircraft intercoms came to mind for me as well.  They are designed for carbon 
mics,  and medium impedance headphones.  I have matched them to more modern 
mics and phones in the past, so I know it is possible.  There was a lot of 
information on them, spread out over several years, in Kit Planes Magazine, in 
the Aero 'Lectrics column written by fellow ham Jim Weir (can't remember his 
call).  
Jim's company, RST Engineering, used to sell an intercom as a kit.  That would 
be a good solution.   Try a Web search to see if they are still around.

Mark KE6BB 


 Original message 
From: "Dauer, Edward"  
Date: 07/04/2015  4:01 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Subject: [Elecraft] Audio Mixers 

Audio mixers that do exactly this are ubiquitous in aircraft.  Many are 
now integrated into the Nav-Comms, others were integrated into audio 
panels along with the Marker Beacon receivers; but in the stripped-down GA 
trainers of 20 plus years ago we used to use portable units, measuring 
about 4 inches by 2 inches by 2 inches,  powered by a 9 volt battery, and 
held onto the panel with adhesive-backed Velcro (the GA pilot's best 
friend.)  They came in two-place, four place and six place.  I’ll bet they 
are abundant on E-bay-type used equipment sites, since new avionics has 
the functions all built-in.  

Simple switches allowed communication just between pilots (so ATC couldn’t 
hear the CFI scaring the student), or between one pilot and ATC (so the 
student couldn’t hear the CFI asking ATC to scare the student), or both.  
The four-place and six-place allowed passengers to listen and talk with 
the pilots but not communicate with ATC (so the pilots could scare just 
them.)  I don’t know if they would be compatible with modern amateur 
transceivers — but they used to be as common as dirt and cost about as 
much.  Anyone looked into it?


Ted, KN1CBR (and ex-CFI)

>Message: 27
>Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2015 13:15:44 -0500
>From: David McAnally 
>To: K3 List 
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Audio mixers
>Message-ID:
>   
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
>This was something we wondered about during field day. A way for operator
>and logger to speak to each other over the headsets, as well as listen to
>the QSOs.  Hearing both sides of the QSO was accomplished by using the
>monitor feature on the K3.  However, the operator and logger wanted to
>communicate with each other sometimes as well.
>
>I added an external mixer
><http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000KIPT30/ref=pe_385040_30332190_TE_M3T1_ST1_dp
>_1>
>to allow TX monitor and RX audio to be sent to a video stream as well as
>the headset for the logger. Combining mic audio from two headsets might be
>a little more complicated, especially to be active during RX as well as 
>TX.
>
>David M.
>WD5M
>
>On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 12:43 PM, Cady, Fred  wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> Happy 4th.
>> I'd like to use an audio mixer to mix computer and mic audio plus have
>> kind of an intercom between two operators wearing headphones.  I know 
>>there
>> are audio experts here so what suggestions might you have?
>> Thanks and 73,
>> Fred KE7X
>> __
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>
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Re: [Elecraft] Audio mixers

[wa9fvp]

Here's what I use (viewed at nabble.com) .  I can interface 3 different
radios, both directions, to computers, communications terminals or (back
several years ago) tape recorders.  The switches allow me to select any
combination of radios or data/recorder devices.

 



-
Jack WA9FVP

Sent from my TRS-80 :-)
--
View this message in context: 
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Audio-mixers-tp7604562p7604611.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] Audio mixers

[Fred Jensen]

Art, W6RMK [SK], who was left-handed taught a 12 year old left-hander 
the code in his dining room.  He insisted, "We will send right-handed so 
you can write legibly in your log book with your left."  Log books were 
sacred then [50's], you logged every time you made RF regardless of why 
you did it.  I found my first logs cleaning out when my mom died and 
every CQ was logged whether it was answered or not [many weren't].


For many years, that's exactly what I did.  A number of years ago, we 
conducted a small survey here on this list and one result was that about 
35-40% of respondents who think of themselves as left-handed paddled 
right most of the time, all of them for my Elmer's reason.  0% of the 
right-handed respondents paddled left.


Sending right really helps if you guest op, most stations are set up for 
right-handers.  As logging requirements were disappearing, I have 
migrated to left-handed sending and probably do it now around half the 
time, I have a paddle on each side of the laptop.  Art's grandson Jim 
now holds W6RMK.


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
- www.cqp.org

On 7/4/2015 8:37 AM, Tony Estep wrote:

On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 12:35 AM, Wes (N7WS)  wrote:


Nose, KH6IJ (SK) would just keep the last three or four contacts in his
head...


===
Yeah, and he could send with one hand and log with the other. A legend!

Tony KT0NY


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Re: [Elecraft] Audio mixers

[Fred Jensen]

It used to be a FD tradition of sorts, a way to introduce new folks into 
ham radio.  Before computers were invented, you kept a chronological 
log, and a manual dupe sheet with 10 columns numbered 0 thru 9 into 
which you wrote the suffix of each call worked in the appropriate 
column.  In those days, there were vastly fewer prefixes than we have 
today, and the suffix was sufficient to determine that the guy you were 
listening to was not a dupe.


in the later 70's, my non-ham neighbor wanted to see what FD was all 
about so he became my logger on CW.  I showed him the numbers and the 
class letters [there were only about half of what we have now].  He 
started with no Morse knowledge, by the end, he was copying the exchange 
pretty much all the time, and getting the calls right every now and 
then.  He never got a license however, the concept of having a new 
logger doesn't always yield a new ham.


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 50th Running of the Cal QSO Party 3-4 Oct 2015
- www.cqp.org

On 7/3/2015 7:52 PM, Gary K9GS wrote:

Hello David,

Not singling you out or anything but I've often wondered why you need
separate operator and logger?  This seems to be a practice peculiar to
FD but I've never understood why the person operating the radio doesn't
do the logging too??


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Re: [Elecraft] Audio mixers

[Tony Estep]

On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 12:35 AM, Wes (N7WS)  wrote:

> Nose, KH6IJ (SK) would just keep the last three or four contacts in his
> head...

===
Yeah, and he could send with one hand and log with the other. A legend!

Tony KT0NY
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Re: [Elecraft] Audio mixers

[Wes (N7WS)]

Nose, KH6IJ (SK) would just keep the last three or four contacts in his head 
then write them down (on carbon copies) while working a slow one.


See: https://archive.org/details/73-magazine-1968-02   page 50.


On 7/3/2015 8:16 PM, James Bennett wrote:

My guess would be for a CW contest station. Kind of a PITA to keep moving hand 
from keyer paddle to keyboard. Of course, if one could type with one hand and 
do CW with the other, that would be great. But I can't, so having a logger op 
would help the QSO rate.






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Re: [Elecraft] Audio mixers

[Ian Kahn]

The club I belong to uses a logger "op" at Field Day stations to introduce
new hams to HF and to contesting. It also provides a way for folks to
participate without feeling they are being pressured into operating in a
manner they aren't used to our don't want to.

73 de,

Ian, KM4IK
On Jul 3, 2015 11:14 PM, "Jim Brown"  wrote:

> On Fri,7/3/2015 7:52 PM, Gary K9GS wrote:
>
>> Not singling you out or anything but I've often wondered why you need
>> separate operator and logger?  This seems to be a practice peculiar to FD
>>
>
> Yes, this is a practice that goes back to #2 pencil logging and paper dupe
> sheets. The first FD I was on, probably 1955 (a few months before I was
> licensed) was done that way. Once computer logging came into existence,
> there was no good reason for it, but some guys are stuck in the past.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Audio mixers

[James Bennett]

My guess would be for a CW contest station. Kind of a PITA to keep moving hand 
from keyer paddle to keyboard. Of course, if one could type with one hand and 
do CW with the other, that would be great. But I can't, so having a logger op 
would help the QSO rate. 



> On Jul 3, 2015, at 7:52 PM, Gary K9GS  wrote:
> 
> Hello David,
> 
> Not singling you out or anything but I've often wondered why you need 
> separate operator and logger?  This seems to be a practice peculiar to FD but 
> I've never understood why the person operating the radio doesn't do the 
> logging too??
> 
> 
> 
>> On 7/3/2015 1:15 PM, David McAnally wrote:
>> This was something we wondered about during field day. A way for operator
>> and logger to speak to each other over the headsets, as well as listen to
>> the QSOs.  Hearing both sides of the QSO was accomplished by using the
>> monitor feature on the K3.  However, the operator and logger wanted to
>> communicate with each other sometimes as well.
>> 
>> I added an external mixer
>> 
>> to allow TX monitor and RX audio to be sent to a video stream as well as
>> the headset for the logger. Combining mic audio from two headsets might be
>> a little more complicated, especially to be active during RX as well as TX.
>> 
>> David M.
>> WD5M
>> 
>>> On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 12:43 PM, Cady, Fred  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> Happy 4th.
>>> I'd like to use an audio mixer to mix computer and mic audio plus have
>>> kind of an intercom between two operators wearing headphones.  I know there
>>> are audio experts here so what suggestions might you have?
>>> Thanks and 73,
>>> Fred KE7X
>>> __
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>> Message delivered to david.mcana...@gmail.com
>> __
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>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 73,
>> 
>> Gary K9GS
>> 
>> Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
>> Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
>> CW Ops #1032   http://www.cwops.org
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Audio mixers

[Jim Brown]

On Fri,7/3/2015 7:52 PM, Gary K9GS wrote:
Not singling you out or anything but I've often wondered why you need 
separate operator and logger?  This seems to be a practice peculiar to FD


Yes, this is a practice that goes back to #2 pencil logging and paper 
dupe sheets. The first FD I was on, probably 1955 (a few months before I 
was licensed) was done that way. Once computer logging came into 
existence, there was no good reason for it, but some guys are stuck in 
the past.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Audio mixers

[Gary K9GS]

Hello David,

Not singling you out or anything but I've often wondered why you need 
separate operator and logger?  This seems to be a practice peculiar to 
FD but I've never understood why the person operating the radio doesn't 
do the logging too??




On 7/3/2015 1:15 PM, David McAnally wrote:

This was something we wondered about during field day. A way for operator
and logger to speak to each other over the headsets, as well as listen to
the QSOs.  Hearing both sides of the QSO was accomplished by using the
monitor feature on the K3.  However, the operator and logger wanted to
communicate with each other sometimes as well.

I added an external mixer

to allow TX monitor and RX audio to be sent to a video stream as well as
the headset for the logger. Combining mic audio from two headsets might be
a little more complicated, especially to be active during RX as well as TX.

David M.
WD5M

On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 12:43 PM, Cady, Fred  wrote:


Hi all,
Happy 4th.
I'd like to use an audio mixer to mix computer and mic audio plus have
kind of an intercom between two operators wearing headphones.  I know there
are audio experts here so what suggestions might you have?
Thanks and 73,
Fred KE7X
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--
73,

Gary K9GS

Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
CW Ops #1032   http://www.cwops.org



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Re: [Elecraft] Audio mixers

[Jim Brown]

On Fri,7/3/2015 11:55 AM, Walter Underwood wrote:

But hams are cheap! I just checked, and you can get 1970’s Shure mixers for $25 
on eBay.


Yes, but 70s vintage Shure mixers won't do what Fred wants. The product 
lines I mentioned should also be available on eBay.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Audio mixers

[Walter Underwood]

But hams are cheap! I just checked, and you can get 1970’s Shure mixers for $25 
on eBay.

wunder
K6WRU
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

On Jul 3, 2015, at 11:40 AM, Jim Brown  wrote:

> On Fri,7/3/2015 10:43 AM, Cady, Fred wrote:
>> I'd like to use an audio mixer to mix computer and mic audio plus have kind 
>> of an intercom between two operators wearing headphones.  I know there are 
>> audio experts here so what suggestions might you have?
> 
> The good stuff is made by Rane and Mackie.  I suggest that you sketch out a 
> one-line of inputs and outputs to see how many inputs, outputs, and mixes 
> that you need.  The line output of a pro mixer will easily drive a set of 
> headphones.  Behringer makes cheap, poor quality, (and ripoff) copy.
> 
> A company called Radio Design Labs also has some nice modular stuff.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Audio mixers

[Jim Brown]

On Fri,7/3/2015 10:43 AM, Cady, Fred wrote:

I'd like to use an audio mixer to mix computer and mic audio plus have kind of 
an intercom between two operators wearing headphones.  I know there are audio 
experts here so what suggestions might you have?


The good stuff is made by Rane and Mackie.  I suggest that you sketch 
out a one-line of inputs and outputs to see how many inputs, outputs, 
and mixes that you need.  The line output of a pro mixer will easily 
drive a set of headphones.  Behringer makes cheap, poor quality, (and 
ripoff) copy.


A company called Radio Design Labs also has some nice modular stuff.

73, Jim K9YC



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Re: [Elecraft] Audio mixers

[Walter Underwood]

That is also in the June 2008 QST, page 39. The PDF is downloadable from 
arrl.org.

wunder
K6WRU
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

On Jul 3, 2015, at 11:32 AM, Jim Hooper  wrote:

> Fred, 
> 
> The ARRL 2012 Handbook has such a design, section 24.15 “An Audio Interface 
> Unit for Field Day and Contesting.”but I have not built it. 
> 
> 73, 
> Hoop
> K9QJS 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 3, 2015, at 10:43 , Cady, Fred  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> Happy 4th.
> I'd like to use an audio mixer to mix computer and mic audio plus have kind 
> of an intercom between two operators wearing headphones.  I know there are 
> audio experts here so what suggestions might you have?
> Thanks and 73,
> Fred KE7X
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Re: [Elecraft] Audio mixers

[Jim Hooper]

Fred, 

The ARRL 2012 Handbook has such a design, section 24.15 “An Audio Interface 
Unit for Field Day and Contesting.”but I have not built it. 

73, 
Hoop
K9QJS 



On Jul 3, 2015, at 10:43 , Cady, Fred  wrote:

Hi all,
Happy 4th.
I'd like to use an audio mixer to mix computer and mic audio plus have kind of 
an intercom between two operators wearing headphones.  I know there are audio 
experts here so what suggestions might you have?
Thanks and 73,
Fred KE7X
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Re: [Elecraft] Audio mixers

[David McAnally]

This was something we wondered about during field day. A way for operator
and logger to speak to each other over the headsets, as well as listen to
the QSOs.  Hearing both sides of the QSO was accomplished by using the
monitor feature on the K3.  However, the operator and logger wanted to
communicate with each other sometimes as well.

I added an external mixer

to allow TX monitor and RX audio to be sent to a video stream as well as
the headset for the logger. Combining mic audio from two headsets might be
a little more complicated, especially to be active during RX as well as TX.

David M.
WD5M

On Fri, Jul 3, 2015 at 12:43 PM, Cady, Fred  wrote:

> Hi all,
> Happy 4th.
> I'd like to use an audio mixer to mix computer and mic audio plus have
> kind of an intercom between two operators wearing headphones.  I know there
> are audio experts here so what suggestions might you have?
> Thanks and 73,
> Fred KE7X
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