Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500? [Thread closed]
Folks -lets end the breakers for KPA1500thread to relieve list overload for our other readers. Thread closed. 73, Eric Moderator from time to time.. elecraft.com _..._ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
Ok... I can’t stand it any longer. The breaker you install has nothing whatsoever to do with the equipment your going to use on that circuit. The breaker is chosen for the size of the wire you run in the walls. PERIOD!!! The amp is protected by the fuses in the amp! Not the circuit breaker. The only thing protected by the breaker is the wire use in that circuit. If you have a 50amp 240 v circuit, FINE! The amp will use what it needs. The fuses will protect it from overdraw of current. The circuit breaker will protect the wire to the receptacle. PERIOD! If you don’t know this you should hire an electrician. PERIOD! Talk about a thread that’s gone on too long! Ron Genovesi N3ETA Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 10, 2018, at 11:42 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > > John, > > Just because the Specification says 20 amps, that is the maximum current draw > for the amp - it does not say that the breaker must be 20 amps, only that it > must be 20 amps or higher. > A 30 amp breaker is fine if the wire is #10 or larger. > > Think about what you normally plug into a 120 volt 15 amp receptacle - does > it always draw 15 amps? Certainly a hair dryer might, but your cellphone > charger does not. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > >> On 7/10/2018 1:34 PM, j...@kk9a.com wrote: >> I based that statement on the 20amp KPA1500 rating shown on page 28 of >> their manual. Obviously this is incorrect or it is very inefficient, but >> still a station can have multiple heavy duty rotators, computers, multiple >> transceivers, etc. >> http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740301%20KPA1500%20Owners%20Manual%20Rev%20A8.pdf > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to n3...@coastside.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
Ladies and Gentlemen, As a *Recovering Regulator* and a person who contacted my insurance company when I was contemplating finishing my basement, let me share a couple thoughts/experiences. A couple of years ago I called my home owners insurance company, USAA, and told the nice young lady who answered the phone that I thought building permit fees were just another tax and asked her if it would be acceptable to the insurance company if I hired contractors for the electrical, plumbing, heating, etc. work and specified in the contracts that all work would be performed to currant code. Her response was that they really did not care what I did unless there was a catastrophe. In which case if the cause of the catastrophe was traced to uninspected work, I was not insured. Not sure if this is still the case, but a few years ago the Trustees of the Town of Deertrail, Colorado put in place a system where a person could bring a description or sketch of proposed work written on anything, including a bar napkin from the VFW hall, to the Town Clerks office and be issued a building permit. For a fee of $2.00 you could have the work inspected by the Mayor/Building inspector when he was in town, since he was a long haul trucker he was frequently on the road but would do the inspection when he got back. Since most jurisdictions are more formal than Deertrail, I would recommend talking with the people in your local jurisdiction to learn the local requirements. Or as my Business Law professor said, "The expensive professional advice is always cheaper than fixing the problem(s) we create by not knowing the rules and regulations." Lee N0RRL On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 12:50 PM, Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT < kx...@coldrockshotbrooms.com> wrote: > Code generally says 12 amps max on a 15 amp circuit. > > On 7/10/2018 11:42 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote: > >> Think about what you normally plug into a 120 volt 15 amp receptacle - >> does it always draw 15 amps? Certainly a hair dryer might, but your >> cellphone charger does not. >> > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to ldormis...@gmail.com > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
Code generally says 12 amps max on a 15 amp circuit. On 7/10/2018 11:42 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote: Think about what you normally plug into a 120 volt 15 amp receptacle - does it always draw 15 amps? Certainly a hair dryer might, but your cellphone charger does not. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
John, Just because the Specification says 20 amps, that is the maximum current draw for the amp - it does not say that the breaker must be 20 amps, only that it must be 20 amps or higher. A 30 amp breaker is fine if the wire is #10 or larger. Think about what you normally plug into a 120 volt 15 amp receptacle - does it always draw 15 amps? Certainly a hair dryer might, but your cellphone charger does not. 73, Don W3FPR On 7/10/2018 1:34 PM, j...@kk9a.com wrote: I based that statement on the 20amp KPA1500 rating shown on page 28 of their manual. Obviously this is incorrect or it is very inefficient, but still a station can have multiple heavy duty rotators, computers, multiple transceivers, etc. http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740301%20KPA1500%20Owners%20Manual%20Rev%20A8.pdf __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
Per the manual 50% efficiency. So at 1500 watts output the. input would be abt 3Kw. A 20 amp ckt at 240 V would supply 4.8 Kw. Seems reasonable to have adequate power for other equipment. Bob, K4TAX Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 10, 2018, at 12:34 PM, "j...@kk9a.com" wrote: > > I based that statement on the 20amp KPA1500 rating shown on page 28 of > their manual. Obviously this is incorrect or it is very inefficient, but > still a station can have multiple heavy duty rotators, computers, multiple > transceivers, etc. > > http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740301%20KPA1500%20Owners%20Manual%20Rev%20A8.pdf > > John KK9A > > > Jim Brown jim at audiosystemsgroup.com > >> On 7/10/2018 9:13 AM, john at kk9a.com wrote: >> Yes you can run three conductor >> Romex and have a 120v and 240v outlet but I do not see this as a good plan >> as it could easily exceed 20 amps on one leg. Upgrading to higher amperage >> circuit and you'll exceed the amperage rating for a standard 120v outlet. >> Two separate circuits are much easier to manage. > > It's hard to imagine how 20A on a 240V circuit split to 120V outlets > (with neutral) could be exceeded in a single operator ham station > running legal power, and powering only ham gear from that circuit. Let's > say that the power amp is drawing 15A keydown. That's 3.6kW, and you > still have 5A at 120V on each of the two legs. Now, let's say that you > have an Astron 14.4V supply running on one of those outlets powering a > tranceiver, even two or three tranceivers, only one of them TX at a > time. I find it hard to believe that the Astron draws more than 3A, > probably less. Add an old big iron computer to the other leg, maybe 1A > on that leg. Indeed, a second power amp could be running off that > circuit as long as only one is in TX mode at a time! > > 73, Jim K9YC > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to rmcg...@blomand.net > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
On 7/10/2018 9:13 AM, j...@kk9a.com wrote: Yes you can run three conductor Romex and have a 120v and 240v outlet but I do not see this as a good plan as it could easily exceed 20 amps on one leg. Upgrading to higher amperage circuit and you'll exceed the amperage rating for a standard 120v outlet. Two separate circuits are much easier to manage. It's hard to imagine how 20A on a 240V circuit split to 120V outlets (with neutral) could be exceeded in a single operator ham station running legal power, and powering only ham gear from that circuit. Let's say that the power amp is drawing 15A keydown. That's 3.6kW, and you still have 5A at 120V on each of the two legs. Now, let's say that you have an Astron 14.4V supply running on one of those outlets powering a tranceiver, even two or three tranceivers, only one of them TX at a time. I find it hard to believe that the Astron draws more than 3A, probably less. Add an old big iron computer to the other leg, maybe 1A on that leg. Indeed, a second power amp could be running off that circuit as long as only one is in TX mode at a time! 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
On 7/10/2018 7:10 AM, N2TK, Tony wrote: > I did not in any way suggest using the ground wire for current. But > many appliances such as the KPA1500, air compressors, water heater, > etc. are 220VAC devices that only require 2 wires plus ground. If > you look at the plugs on many of these type devices there are only > three prongs - each phase plus ground. There is no need for a neutral > wire. Current code revisions now require a full-size neutral and 4-wire receptacle on all such new or upgraded installations. 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 >From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
Let's put this in monetary terms. 100 ft of 12/2 with ground is $56 at Home Depot. 100 ft of 10/3 with ground is $138. If you pay an electrician to do the work, the difference won't be 10% of the bill. If you do it yourself, following code and getting it signed off by an electrician and inspected of course so your insurance won't deny coverage, and you value your time, and there is a chance you may want extra 120 V in the future, it will save hours of replacing it later. I would go with the 10/3 with ground, but that's just me. When you sell your house and the next owner wants to put something else there, you may get more for the property. For example, the previous owner of our house installed a 20A RV power outlet. And yes, it came from one side of a 20A 240V feed with a neutral and ground. That was worth hundreds more to us. I would still put in 20A breakers. They protect the wires and if all you need is 20A for the load, it seems sensible to be more protective. I have heard of inspectors seeing 20A breakers and AWG10 wire and questioning it, but it seems you could explain it was done for an extra safety factor, etc. Breakers are quick to change. Good luck with whatever you do. 73, Mark W7MLG __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
Don, Yes, good point. 73, Erik K7TV -Original Message- From: Don Wilhelm Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2018 8:56 AM To: Erik Basilier ; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500? Erik, One of the benefits of using a new and direct line to the breaker box to power both 240 and 120 in the shack is that the 120 volt (and the 240 volt) green wire ground is a straight run to the breaker box instead of being run willy-nilly from receptacle to receptacle through the house. The one dedicated run creates less noise on the power to the shack. 73, Don W3FPR On 7/10/2018 11:40 AM, Erik Basilier wrote: > It is abundantly clear that 3 conductors plus protective ground are > needed if there will be any load, on the same circuit, that requires > 120V as opposed to 240V only. I certainly agree 100%. It is also clear > that the person who installs 240V for the PA only could get away with > one conductor less. In that case, his other ham equipment would > presumably run on older 120V wiring. So, the person contemplating the > installation of 240V for the PA has a choice: Should he add the extra > conductor to make possible operation of 120V equipment on the new > wiring? An argument against it would be that it puts more load on the > new wiring and it doesn't utilize the 120V capacity already installed. > However, as has been pointed out, ham equipment doesn't constitute > that much of a load, even for a station at full legal power. My > personal feeling is that it is a good idea to use the new wiring (with > all 4 conductors) for all the ham equipment, as mixing the old and new > power circuits provides more opportunity for disastrous transient damage with > a nearby lightning strike. Just my 2c. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
Erik, One of the benefits of using a new and direct line to the breaker box to power both 240 and 120 in the shack is that the 120 volt (and the 240 volt) green wire ground is a straight run to the breaker box instead of being run willy-nilly from receptacle to receptacle through the house. The one dedicated run creates less noise on the power to the shack. 73, Don W3FPR On 7/10/2018 11:40 AM, Erik Basilier wrote: It is abundantly clear that 3 conductors plus protective ground are needed if there will be any load, on the same circuit, that requires 120V as opposed to 240V only. I certainly agree 100%. It is also clear that the person who installs 240V for the PA only could get away with one conductor less. In that case, his other ham equipment would presumably run on older 120V wiring. So, the person contemplating the installation of 240V for the PA has a choice: Should he add the extra conductor to make possible operation of 120V equipment on the new wiring? An argument against it would be that it puts more load on the new wiring and it doesn't utilize the 120V capacity already installed. However, as has been pointed out, ham equipment doesn't constitute that much of a load, even for a station at full legal power. My personal feeling is that it is a good idea to use the new wiring (with all 4 conductors) for all the ham equipment, as mixing the old and new power circuits provides more opportunity for disastrous transient damage with a nearby lightning strike. Just my 2c. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
Yes Tony, I added that bit in case someone wanted to get 120 volts from the 2 wire plus ground receptacle. While it will work if you use the ground wire as the neutral conductor, it is a severe violation of code to do so, and it is highly dangerous from a safety standpoint. The KPA1500 is a pluggable device, not a hard-wired device (unlike a range or a full house air conditioner). In fact for wiring our air conditioner compressor, I ran 3 wires plus ground (because that is what I had on hand), and the inspector required that the 3rd conductor NOT be connected to anything, so it works both ways. The way I see it: If the device is permanently wired in, 2 wires and ground is desired and sufficient. If the device plugs into a receptacle with the possibility of adding a 120 volt receptacle from that wiring box, run 3 wires plus ground. The neutral wire will be left unused unless a 4 wire receptacle or a 3 wire receptacle AND one or more 120 volt receptacles are added to the box in the wall. 73, Don W3FPR. On 7/10/2018 10:10 AM, N2TK, Tony wrote: Don, I did not in any way suggest using the ground wire for current. But many appliances such as the KPA1500, air compressors, water heater, etc. are 220VAC devices that only require 2 wires plus ground. If you look at the plugs on many of these type devices there are only three prongs - each phase plus ground. There is no need for a neutral wire. Yes, appliances like ovens and dryers where there is a need for 110 VAC besides 220VAC do need the neutral wire, hence the 4-wire plug. I was commenting on the mention below of using 3 wires plus ground for the amp. I can't see how that is necessary for a dedicated outlet for the amp. 2 wires plus ground is quite sufficient. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Don Wilhelm [mailto:donw...@embarqmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2018 9:54 AM To: N2TK, Tony ; j...@audiosystemsgroup.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500? Tony, While it is possible and safe to use only two wires plug safety ground (Green Wire Ground) for a 240 volt receptacle or 240 volt only device (in-home air conditioner, dryer, etc), it is quite unsafe to split off for a 120 volt supply using one hot and ground - in that case (such as a range that has a 120 volt outlet on it or a 120 volt fan) you MUST run 3 conductors plus ground. The ground wire should never carry current. An inspector would never approve it, and if you value your insurance coverage, don't try it - it will be found after the fire! 73, Don W3FPR On 7/10/2018 7:06 AM, N2TK, Tony wrote: I do not understand the need for three wires plus ground. For a clothes dryer outlet a neutral is required to get 110VAC from one of the phases to the neutral. But for amps you only need both phases and a ground. The plugs are three wire, not four. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Monday, July 09, 2018 8:40 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500? On 7/9/2018 12:26 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: I would also suggest using three - #10 with ground as the line from the breakers to the amp operating position. Not only a suggestion -- it's the law! Electrical Codes carry the force of law, and they require that the equipment ground must 1) run with the current carrying conductors and 2) must be no smaller than the largest conductor. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to tony@verizon.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to donw...@embarqmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
Don, I did not in any way suggest using the ground wire for current. But many appliances such as the KPA1500, air compressors, water heater, etc. are 220VAC devices that only require 2 wires plus ground. If you look at the plugs on many of these type devices there are only three prongs - each phase plus ground. There is no need for a neutral wire. Yes, appliances like ovens and dryers where there is a need for 110 VAC besides 220VAC do need the neutral wire, hence the 4-wire plug. I was commenting on the mention below of using 3 wires plus ground for the amp. I can't see how that is necessary for a dedicated outlet for the amp. 2 wires plus ground is quite sufficient. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: Don Wilhelm [mailto:donw...@embarqmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2018 9:54 AM To: N2TK, Tony ; j...@audiosystemsgroup.com; elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500? Tony, While it is possible and safe to use only two wires plug safety ground (Green Wire Ground) for a 240 volt receptacle or 240 volt only device (in-home air conditioner, dryer, etc), it is quite unsafe to split off for a 120 volt supply using one hot and ground - in that case (such as a range that has a 120 volt outlet on it or a 120 volt fan) you MUST run 3 conductors plus ground. The ground wire should never carry current. An inspector would never approve it, and if you value your insurance coverage, don't try it - it will be found after the fire! 73, Don W3FPR On 7/10/2018 7:06 AM, N2TK, Tony wrote: > I do not understand the need for three wires plus ground. For a clothes dryer > outlet a neutral is required to get 110VAC from one of the phases to the > neutral. But for amps you only need both phases and a ground. The plugs are > three wire, not four. > 73, > N2TK, Tony > > -Original Message- > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net > [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2018 8:40 PM > To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500? > > On 7/9/2018 12:26 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: >> I would also suggest using three - #10 with ground as the line from >> the breakers to the amp operating position. > > Not only a suggestion -- it's the law! Electrical Codes carry the force of > law, and they require that the equipment ground must 1) run with the current > carrying conductors and 2) must be no smaller than the largest conductor. > > 73, Jim K9YC > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to > tony@verizon.net > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to > donw...@embarqmail.com > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
Tony, While it is possible and safe to use only two wires plug safety ground (Green Wire Ground) for a 240 volt receptacle or 240 volt only device (in-home air conditioner, dryer, etc), it is quite unsafe to split off for a 120 volt supply using one hot and ground - in that case (such as a range that has a 120 volt outlet on it or a 120 volt fan) you MUST run 3 conductors plus ground. The ground wire should never carry current. An inspector would never approve it, and if you value your insurance coverage, don't try it - it will be found after the fire! 73, Don W3FPR On 7/10/2018 7:06 AM, N2TK, Tony wrote: I do not understand the need for three wires plus ground. For a clothes dryer outlet a neutral is required to get 110VAC from one of the phases to the neutral. But for amps you only need both phases and a ground. The plugs are three wire, not four. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Monday, July 09, 2018 8:40 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500? On 7/9/2018 12:26 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: I would also suggest using three - #10 with ground as the line from the breakers to the amp operating position. Not only a suggestion -- it's the law! Electrical Codes carry the force of law, and they require that the equipment ground must 1) run with the current carrying conductors and 2) must be no smaller than the largest conductor. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to tony@verizon.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to donw...@embarqmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
I split off with a 120 volt duplex outlet from L1 and another from L2 and I have a 240 volt outlet for the amp. Thus both neutral and ground are needed for the 120 volt duplex outlets. The configuration is very adequate, legal, and safe for the entire station. 73 Bob, K4TAZ On 7/10/2018 6:06 AM, N2TK, Tony wrote: I do not understand the need for three wires plus ground. For a clothes dryer outlet a neutral is required to get 110VAC from one of the phases to the neutral. But for amps you only need both phases and a ground. The plugs are three wire, not four. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Monday, July 09, 2018 8:40 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500? On 7/9/2018 12:26 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: I would also suggest using three - #10 with ground as the line from the breakers to the amp operating position. Not only a suggestion -- it's the law! Electrical Codes carry the force of law, and they require that the equipment ground must 1) run with the current carrying conductors and 2) must be no smaller than the largest conductor. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to tony@verizon.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to rmcg...@blomand.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
I do not understand the need for three wires plus ground. For a clothes dryer outlet a neutral is required to get 110VAC from one of the phases to the neutral. But for amps you only need both phases and a ground. The plugs are three wire, not four. 73, N2TK, Tony -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Monday, July 09, 2018 8:40 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500? On 7/9/2018 12:26 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: > I would also suggest using three - #10 with ground as the line from > the breakers to the amp operating position. Not only a suggestion -- it's the law! Electrical Codes carry the force of law, and they require that the equipment ground must 1) run with the current carrying conductors and 2) must be no smaller than the largest conductor. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to tony@verizon.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
On 7/9/2018 6:23 PM, Rick WA6NHC wrote: > The only factor after that is the insurance company, which may choose to > EXCEED the existing code(s) which directly affects the pocketbook. In my grad school days, I was a mentor to a HS kid whose dad was an insurance company safety engineer in the pre-OSHA days and later became a state-OSHA manager.I will always remember him saying that if a local inspector finds a safety violation, he will give you 30, 60, or even 90 days to correct it, but if the insurance company inspector finds the violation, they can impose a 24 or 48 hour deadline or the coverage will be suspended. I can believe that! The kid, BTW, did become a ham after finishing law school but passed away a few years ago. 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 >From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
While I certainly would recommend conservative design, so long as it’s a KPA-1500 you’re powering don’t worry so much.You won’t be running continuous duty cycle, so the heating of the wire is of less concern. It would be a bigger concern if the circuit was used on a continuous duty cycle load such as a space heater or air conditioner. 73 - Jim K8MR > On Jul 9, 2018, at 9:23 PM, Rick WA6NHC wrote: > > Again, it's law only to the extent that the county (a) has adopted it, (b) > that it's remotely current (no pun intended) and (c) there are permits with > inspections after the install. > > None of that exists here, I presume it's similar in other counties as well. > The only factor after that is the insurance company, which may choose to > EXCEED the existing code(s) which directly affects the pocketbook. > > However, I CHOOSE to follow the code because it's good sense. Any contractor > I hire is required (by me) to do the same. > > Rick nhc N Idaho > > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
PDF or printed copy will cost you! But I have searched for a topic on forums such as Mike Holt's and they usually list a paragraph number. The online version has a table of contents so you can go there once you know the paragraph number. 73, Mark W7MLG On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 6:35 PM, James F. Boehner MD wrote: > WOW! > > Thanks for that link! Now just to find it in PDF. > > '73 de JIM N2ZZ > > > -Original Message- > From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net > [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Mark Goldberg > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2018 8:27 PM > To: hawley, charles j jr > Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500? > > Actually, if you look at the NEC (National Electrical Code), they have > factors for ambient temp and wire temp ratings. Other codes around the > world are similar. > > For example, if you use AWG 12 Type UF cable, the base rating is 20 Amps. > With the temperatures we have in Arizona, where it can get above 140F in an > attic, they have a correction factor of 0.71 if the wire is rated to 90C. > So it should only be used up to 14.2 Amps. If you are installing from > scratch, I would go to AWG 10 just for a safety factor. Of course, you may > not be here in Arizona. It actually may get hotter than that here in some > attics. > > You can read the NEC for free by going here and signing up. It will tell > you more than you want to know, in excruciating detail. A copy will cost > ya, but I have found the online interface good enough to find things. > > https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and- > standards/list-of-cod > es-and-standards/detail?code=70 > > 73, > > Mark > W7MLG > > > On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 4:49 PM, hawley, charles j jr < > c-haw...@illinois.edu> > wrote: > > > How many watts of heat does the average attic have in the summertime? > > > > Chuck > > KE9UW > > > > Sent from my iPhone, cjack > > > > > On Jul 9, 2018, at 6:39 PM, Josh Fiden wrote: > > > > > > If wire run ends up being 50' you could see a 2V drop at 13A. Agree > that > > switching supply in amp won't care. 26W of heat in the wire inside a wall > > would bug me. > > > > > > 73 > > > Josh W6XU > > > > > > Sent from my mobile device > > > > > >> On Jul 9, 2018, at 3:12 PM, Roy Koeppe wrote: > > >> > > >> The KPA1500 uses a regulated power supply: input 195 to 250 vac. > > Voltage loss in #12 wires is so small the regulator will laugh at that. > > >> > > >> 73, Roy K6XK > > >> > > >> > > >> "I would also suggest using three - #10 with ground as the line from > > the > > >> breakers to the amp operating position." > > >> > > >> 73 > > >> > > >> Bob, K4TAX > > >> > > >> > > >>> On 7/9/2018 11:43 AM, Roy Koeppe wrote: > > >>> Yes, that is what I am using. > > >>> > > >>> 73, Roy K6XK > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> I probably missed this but my google searches aren't working either. > > >>> > > >>> Will 2x 20A breakers (220v) be sufficient for the KPA1500? > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> __ > > >> Elecraft mailing list > > >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > >> > > >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > >> Message delivered to j...@voodoolab.com > > > > > > __ > > > Elecraft mailing list > > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > Message delivered to c-haw...@illinois.edu > > __ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mail
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
Again, it's law only to the extent that the county (a) has adopted it, (b) that it's remotely current (no pun intended) and (c) there are permits with inspections after the install. None of that exists here, I presume it's similar in other counties as well. The only factor after that is the insurance company, which may choose to EXCEED the existing code(s) which directly affects the pocketbook. However, I CHOOSE to follow the code because it's good sense. Any contractor I hire is required (by me) to do the same. Rick nhc N Idaho On 7/9/2018 5:40 PM, Jim Brown wrote: On 7/9/2018 12:26 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: I would also suggest using three - #10 with ground as the line from the breakers to the amp operating position. Not only a suggestion -- it's the law! Electrical Codes carry the force of law, and they require that the equipment ground must 1) run with the current carrying conductors and 2) must be no smaller than the largest conductor. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to wa6...@gmail.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
For the 240 volt service to my operating position, I have a total run of 75 ft from the breaker panel to the amp outlet. I installed #10 - 3 w/ground with a dual 20A breaker in the panel. Even though most of the run is in the attic, 90ºC rating is adequate in as much as it is not in conduit. If installed in conduit, it must be derated. When you put Romex inside conduit the Romex cannot breathe and retains too much heat. Hence the reason for derating. 73 Bob, K4TAX On 7/9/2018 7:40 PM, Jim Brown wrote: On 7/9/2018 12:26 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: I would also suggest using three - #10 with ground as the line from the breakers to the amp operating position. Not only a suggestion -- it's the law! Electrical Codes carry the force of law, and they require that the equipment ground must 1) run with the current carrying conductors and 2) must be no smaller than the largest conductor. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to rmcg...@blomand.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
On 7/9/2018 12:26 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: I would also suggest using three - #10 with ground as the line from the breakers to the amp operating position. Not only a suggestion -- it's the law! Electrical Codes carry the force of law, and they require that the equipment ground must 1) run with the current carrying conductors and 2) must be no smaller than the largest conductor. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500
On 7/9/2018 11:29 AM, Josh Fiden wrote: I take what code requires as the minimum wire gauge. For shorter runs it's fine. But measure the run length, multiply by 2 (two wires) and calculate IR voltage drop. Actually, the voltage drop is greater than you calculate with the simple formula because current to electronic loads is not a sine wave! This makes Josh's advice even better! There's a technical discussion of this in http://k9yc.com/GroundingAndAudio.pdf beginning around slide #56. It's not a big expense when you're installing to use 10 instead of 12 awg if it would make a noticeable difference. Yes. The cost of that outlet is mainly labor. I would even consider #10 small if it's a very long run, and consider #8. And our advice is not specific to the KPA1500 -- it would be the same for any big electrical load. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
Actually, if you look at the NEC (National Electrical Code), they have factors for ambient temp and wire temp ratings. Other codes around the world are similar. For example, if you use AWG 12 Type UF cable, the base rating is 20 Amps. With the temperatures we have in Arizona, where it can get above 140F in an attic, they have a correction factor of 0.71 if the wire is rated to 90C. So it should only be used up to 14.2 Amps. If you are installing from scratch, I would go to AWG 10 just for a safety factor. Of course, you may not be here in Arizona. It actually may get hotter than that here in some attics. You can read the NEC for free by going here and signing up. It will tell you more than you want to know, in excruciating detail. A copy will cost ya, but I have found the online interface good enough to find things. https://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-standards/list-of-codes-and-standards/detail?code=70 73, Mark W7MLG On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 4:49 PM, hawley, charles j jr wrote: > How many watts of heat does the average attic have in the summertime? > > Chuck > KE9UW > > Sent from my iPhone, cjack > > > On Jul 9, 2018, at 6:39 PM, Josh Fiden wrote: > > > > If wire run ends up being 50' you could see a 2V drop at 13A. Agree that > switching supply in amp won't care. 26W of heat in the wire inside a wall > would bug me. > > > > 73 > > Josh W6XU > > > > Sent from my mobile device > > > >> On Jul 9, 2018, at 3:12 PM, Roy Koeppe wrote: > >> > >> The KPA1500 uses a regulated power supply: input 195 to 250 vac. > Voltage loss in #12 wires is so small the regulator will laugh at that. > >> > >> 73, Roy K6XK > >> > >> > >> "I would also suggest using three - #10 with ground as the line from > the > >> breakers to the amp operating position." > >> > >> 73 > >> > >> Bob, K4TAX > >> > >> > >>> On 7/9/2018 11:43 AM, Roy Koeppe wrote: > >>> Yes, that is what I am using. > >>> > >>> 73, Roy K6XK > >>> > >>> > >>> I probably missed this but my google searches aren't working either. > >>> > >>> Will 2x 20A breakers (220v) be sufficient for the KPA1500? > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> __ > >> Elecraft mailing list > >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > >> > >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >> Message delivered to j...@voodoolab.com > > > > __ > > Elecraft mailing list > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Message delivered to c-haw...@illinois.edu > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to marklgoldb...@gmail.com > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
How many watts of heat does the average attic have in the summertime? Chuck KE9UW Sent from my iPhone, cjack > On Jul 9, 2018, at 6:39 PM, Josh Fiden wrote: > > If wire run ends up being 50' you could see a 2V drop at 13A. Agree that > switching supply in amp won't care. 26W of heat in the wire inside a wall > would bug me. > > 73 > Josh W6XU > > Sent from my mobile device > >> On Jul 9, 2018, at 3:12 PM, Roy Koeppe wrote: >> >> The KPA1500 uses a regulated power supply: input 195 to 250 vac. Voltage >> loss in #12 wires is so small the regulator will laugh at that. >> >> 73, Roy K6XK >> >> >> "I would also suggest using three - #10 with ground as the line from the >> breakers to the amp operating position." >> >> 73 >> >> Bob, K4TAX >> >> >>> On 7/9/2018 11:43 AM, Roy Koeppe wrote: >>> Yes, that is what I am using. >>> >>> 73, Roy K6XK >>> >>> >>> I probably missed this but my google searches aren't working either. >>> >>> Will 2x 20A breakers (220v) be sufficient for the KPA1500? >>> >>> >> >> >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to j...@voodoolab.com > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to c-haw...@illinois.edu __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
If wire run ends up being 50' you could see a 2V drop at 13A. Agree that switching supply in amp won't care. 26W of heat in the wire inside a wall would bug me. 73 Josh W6XU Sent from my mobile device > On Jul 9, 2018, at 3:12 PM, Roy Koeppe wrote: > > The KPA1500 uses a regulated power supply: input 195 to 250 vac. Voltage loss > in #12 wires is so small the regulator will laugh at that. > > 73, Roy K6XK > > > "I would also suggest using three - #10 with ground as the line from the > breakers to the amp operating position." > > 73 > > Bob, K4TAX > > >> On 7/9/2018 11:43 AM, Roy Koeppe wrote: >> Yes, that is what I am using. >> >> 73, Roy K6XK >> >> >> I probably missed this but my google searches aren't working either. >> >> Will 2x 20A breakers (220v) be sufficient for the KPA1500? >> >> > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to j...@voodoolab.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
The KPA1500 uses a regulated power supply: input 195 to 250 vac. Voltage loss in #12 wires is so small the regulator will laugh at that. 73, Roy K6XK "I would also suggest using three - #10 with ground as the line from the breakers to the amp operating position." 73 Bob, K4TAX On 7/9/2018 11:43 AM, Roy Koeppe wrote: Yes, that is what I am using. 73, Roy K6XK I probably missed this but my google searches aren't working either. Will 2x 20A breakers (220v) be sufficient for the KPA1500? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500
I just use an extension cord Sent from my iPhone > On Jul 9, 2018, at 2:58 PM, Clay Autery wrote: > > I put a sub-panel in the shack I ran 4 x 6GA stranded THWN-2 in two sets > of twisted pairs inside a steel flex conduit from the main box to the sub > box. Running dual 60 Amp (tied) breakers at the box to catch both hots for > 240 VAC. The hots are paired, and the Neutral and ground are paired. > > The sub-panel is broken out into 2 x 240 @ 15amps, 2 x 240 @ 20amps, and 8 x > 120 @ 20 amp breakers. Each breaker feeds a single plug on each of the 6 x > 120 x 20amp duplexes, and 1 x 240 @ 15 and 20 amp duplexes respectively. I > can turn EACH receptacle off at the sub-panel. From the panel to the > 6-ganged (in steel gang boxes), I also ran 4 x 10GA THWN-2 paired the same > also in steel flex conduit. > > Currently, I have a single 220 x 15 amp and 220 x 20 amp receptacle free. ALL > 120 receptacles are in use (no bus bars). > Never thought they'd fill up that fast. > > No where near maxing out ANY of the breakers or the master 60amp yet. > > My solution MAY be overkill for your install, but the lesson is... > > Don't build for today build for TOMORROW and build ONCE. > > 73, > > __ > Clay Autery, KY5G > (318) 518-1389 > >> On 09-Jul-18 13:14, Dauer, Edward wrote: >> I just had a new dedicated 220V line for the KPA1500 installed by a >> professional company. They used new metal clad 4 by 12 gauge from the >> service box to the outlet with 20 amp breakers on each side. I personally >> make no warranty, but they assured me it would be both safe and more than >> sufficient. >> >> Ted, KN1CBR >> >> >> -- >> Message: 17 >> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 09:24:02 -0700 (PDT) >> From: Hisashi T Fujinaka >> To: Elecraft Mailing List >> Subject: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500? >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed >> I probably missed this but my google searches aren't working either. >> Will 2x 20A breakers (220v) be sufficient for the KPA1500? >> Thanks. >> -- >> Hisashi T Fujinaka - ht...@twofifty.com K7EMI >> BSEE + BSChem + BAEnglish + MSCS + $2.50 = coffee > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to w5...@comcast.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500
I put a sub-panel in the shack I ran 4 x 6GA stranded THWN-2 in two sets of twisted pairs inside a steel flex conduit from the main box to the sub box. Running dual 60 Amp (tied) breakers at the box to catch both hots for 240 VAC. The hots are paired, and the Neutral and ground are paired. The sub-panel is broken out into 2 x 240 @ 15amps, 2 x 240 @ 20amps, and 8 x 120 @ 20 amp breakers. Each breaker feeds a single plug on each of the 6 x 120 x 20amp duplexes, and 1 x 240 @ 15 and 20 amp duplexes respectively. I can turn EACH receptacle off at the sub-panel. From the panel to the 6-ganged (in steel gang boxes), I also ran 4 x 10GA THWN-2 paired the same also in steel flex conduit. Currently, I have a single 220 x 15 amp and 220 x 20 amp receptacle free. ALL 120 receptacles are in use (no bus bars). Never thought they'd fill up that fast. No where near maxing out ANY of the breakers or the master 60amp yet. My solution MAY be overkill for your install, but the lesson is... Don't build for today build for TOMORROW and build ONCE. 73, __ Clay Autery, KY5G (318) 518-1389 On 09-Jul-18 13:14, Dauer, Edward wrote: I just had a new dedicated 220V line for the KPA1500 installed by a professional company. They used new metal clad 4 by 12 gauge from the service box to the outlet with 20 amp breakers on each side. I personally make no warranty, but they assured me it would be both safe and more than sufficient. Ted, KN1CBR -- Message: 17 Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 09:24:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Hisashi T Fujinaka To: Elecraft Mailing List Subject: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed I probably missed this but my google searches aren't working either. Will 2x 20A breakers (220v) be sufficient for the KPA1500? Thanks. -- Hisashi T Fujinaka - ht...@twofifty.com K7EMI BSEE + BSChem + BAEnglish + MSCS + $2.50 = coffee __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
I would also suggest using three - #10 with ground as the line from the breakers to the amp operating position. 73 Bob, K4TAX On 7/9/2018 11:43 AM, Roy Koeppe wrote: Yes, that is what I am using. 73, Roy K6XK I probably missed this but my google searches aren't working either. Will 2x 20A breakers (220v) be sufficient for the KPA1500? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to rmcg...@blomand.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
Actually, 20 amp breakers will work fine. Use #12 wire and it will handle 20 amps. If the run is long, use #10 wire to reduce the voltage drop. Elecraft recommends plugging into 195 to 250 VAC 50/60 Hz up to 20A. 73, Don W3FPR I probably missed this but my google searches aren't working either. Will 2x 20A breakers (220v) be sufficient for the KPA1500? Thanks. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500
I take what code requires as the minimum wire gauge. For shorter runs it's fine. But measure the run length, multiply by 2 (two wires) and calculate IR voltage drop. It's not a big expense when you're installing to use 10 instead of 12 awg if it would make a noticeable difference. Seems like it wouldn't need to be said... but never let them cheap out and use aluminum wire. I actually had an electrician try that for a bigger gauge run. Fortunately I noticed before it was enclosed. Cut it out of the wall and left it coiled for him with a friendly :) note. 73 Josh W6XU __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
Yes, that is what I am using. 73, Roy K6XK I probably missed this but my google searches aren't working either. Will 2x 20A breakers (220v) be sufficient for the KPA1500? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
To the breaker box? It's new construction from the breaker box to the amp. On Mon, 9 Jul 2018, Nr4c wrote: What is the house circuit wire size used. I think the breaker protects the house from fire due to overheated wiring. Sent from my iPhone ...nr4c. bill On Jul 9, 2018, at 12:24 PM, Hisashi T Fujinaka wrote: I probably missed this but my google searches aren't working either. Will 2x 20A breakers (220v) be sufficient for the KPA1500? Thanks. -- Hisashi T Fujinaka - ht...@twofifty.com K7EMI BSEE + BSChem + BAEnglish + MSCS + $2.50 = coffee __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to n...@widomaker.com -- Hisashi T Fujinaka - ht...@twofifty.com BSEE + BSChem + BAEnglish + MSCS + $2.50 = coffee __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] Breakers for KPA1500?
What is the house circuit wire size used. I think the breaker protects the house from fire due to overheated wiring. Sent from my iPhone ...nr4c. bill > On Jul 9, 2018, at 12:24 PM, Hisashi T Fujinaka wrote: > > I probably missed this but my google searches aren't working either. > > Will 2x 20A breakers (220v) be sufficient for the KPA1500? > > Thanks. > > -- > Hisashi T Fujinaka - ht...@twofifty.com K7EMI > BSEE + BSChem + BAEnglish + MSCS + $2.50 = coffee > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to n...@widomaker.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
