Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04 [Thread Closed]

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Thread Closed
73,

Eric
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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

Folks - Time to end this thread. Its drifting way OT. Please avoid this 
level of Ot discussion in the future by taking the thread off list after 
a few posts.

73,

Eric
Elecraft List Moderator ---
www.elecraft.com

On 7/10/2012 6:23 PM, Jim Lowman wrote:
> Okay, I said that I'd stop, but...
>
> I have been in software development since before the days of DOS. For fun,
> I took a five-course certification in Unix/Linux systems at the local UC
> campus.
>
> It was fun to watch these younger guys struggle, after the instructor told
> everyone on the first day of the first class to shell-out to the command
> line
> and stay there.  Most of them had never seen a command line.
>
> 72/73 de Jim - AD6CW
>
> On 7/10/2012 4:37 PM, Alan Jump wrote:
>> All three can do some serious number-crunching. But Linux, especially in
>> the command-line mode, is best described as "user-antagonistic". I
>> happen to like command-line operation for certain tasks; it's actually
>> faster than waiting for a graphic environment to open, especially if I'm
>> doing something like network setups or troubleshooting. And I've been
>> doing it long enough that I can (and probably have) worked through
>> network problems in my sleep. Others aren't as comfortable typing in
>> long, arcane strings of commands, options and arguments. For them, there
>> are graphics-oriented packages that do the same job.
>>
>> We now return to our regularly-scheduled forum, already in progress...
>> --
>> 73 de N5ILN/6
>> Alan
>>
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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Jim Lowman]

Okay, I said that I'd stop, but...

I have been in software development since before the days of DOS. For fun,
I took a five-course certification in Unix/Linux systems at the local UC 
campus.

It was fun to watch these younger guys struggle, after the instructor told
everyone on the first day of the first class to shell-out to the command 
line
and stay there.  Most of them had never seen a command line.

72/73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 7/10/2012 4:37 PM, Alan Jump wrote:
> All three can do some serious number-crunching. But Linux, especially in
> the command-line mode, is best described as "user-antagonistic". I
> happen to like command-line operation for certain tasks; it's actually
> faster than waiting for a graphic environment to open, especially if I'm
> doing something like network setups or troubleshooting. And I've been
> doing it long enough that I can (and probably have) worked through
> network problems in my sleep. Others aren't as comfortable typing in
> long, arcane strings of commands, options and arguments. For them, there
> are graphics-oriented packages that do the same job.
>
> We now return to our regularly-scheduled forum, already in progress...
> --
> 73 de N5ILN/6
> Alan
>

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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Jim Lowman]

Sorry to those who aren't interested...

We had a Z-Frame at my office.  I was the systems programmer for three 
years,
until we decommissioned it.

VSE/POWER ran on top of the Unix implementation.  I had to remember to
shut both down in an orderly manner.

One big pain with Windows is the need to reboot or restart the OS 
periodically.
We had one Unix box that hadn't come offline in seven years, and then not
until the p/s failed.

Stability.

72/73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 7/10/2012 4:14 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
> There are many advantages to the Unix system. The only more scalable
> system on the planet is IBM's mainframe ZOS, and even that now has a
> complete "Unix services subsystem" as an integrated part of the OS.
> Lot of huge stuff simply could not be done without it, including apps
> I managed at SAS Institute before I retired.
>
>

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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[David Fleming]

> export CUPSPID=`ps -ef | grep cups | grep -v grep | awk '{print $2;}'`


This would assign the process ID (PID) of the cups deamon to an environment 
variable (CUPSPID). But only if the cups daemon is running. The variable could 
be used to troubleshoot printer issues, or to determine if  the cups daemon is 
running before trying to print.

This could be shortened by just using awk. 

ps -ef | awk '/cups/&&!/awk/{print $2}'

I think.

We're getting WY off topic folks. :)

David, W4SMT 

==
Doggone right. Only with Unix can you

export CUPSPID=`ps -ef | grep cups | grep -v grep | awk '{print $2;}'`

all on one line. Extra credit: what does this do? Why?
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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Tony Estep]

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 6:06 PM, Jussi Eloranta wrote:

> ... Linux (and Unix in general) is superior to anything made my
> microsoft...
>
==
Doggone right. Only with Unix can you

export CUPSPID=`ps -ef | grep cups | grep -v grep | awk '{print $2;}'`

all on one line. Extra credit: what does this do? Why?

73, Tony KT0NY


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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Alan Jump]

As I just pointed out on a local discussion that was in the middle of a
Windows vs. Mac debate:
Linux is for technicians.
Windows is for management and accountants.
Macs are for artists.

All three can do some serious number-crunching. But Linux, especially in
the command-line mode, is best described as "user-antagonistic". I
happen to like command-line operation for certain tasks; it's actually
faster than waiting for a graphic environment to open, especially if I'm
doing something like network setups or troubleshooting. And I've been
doing it long enough that I can (and probably have) worked through
network problems in my sleep. Others aren't as comfortable typing in
long, arcane strings of commands, options and arguments. For them, there
are graphics-oriented packages that do the same job.

We now return to our regularly-scheduled forum, already in progress...
--
73 de N5ILN/6
Alan

On 7/10/2012 4:14 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:
> One of the comments attributed to Kernigan or Ritchie, forget which,
> was "If I had known that it [Unix] was going to become a widely used
> system instead of the narrowly targeted in-house tool first imagined,
> I would have named programs and functions more carefully.  I was just
> having fun with the names."
>
> Unix-ish systems like Linux are remarkably non-intuitive, until you
> have learned it.  It does not extend off anything else that is well
> known.  It does not suit appliance-user level OS purchasers.  I have
> used Unix and variants since 1973, and have watched 10 struggle to get
> going for every 1 who got it easy.  The mental mindset of a person
> commonly called a "computer geek" is very useful for learning Unix
> variants.
>
> There are many advantages to the Unix system. The only more scalable
> system on the planet is IBM's mainframe ZOS, and even that now has a
> complete "Unix services subsystem" as an integrated part of the OS.
> Lot of huge stuff simply could not be done without it, including apps
> I managed at SAS Institute before I retired.
>
> BUT, it will never be the general population OS, and for good reason.
> That doesn't make Linux good or bad, or OSX good or bad.  But a Linux
> K3 utility will never be the mainline device as is the Windows
> version.  But the Linux version is likely to be a favorite of a
> professional who uses some Unix variant all day, and is just thinking
> in that frame of reference when he gets home.
>
> 73, Guy.
>
> On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 6:37 PM, Bill K9YEQ  wrote:
>> Don,
>>
>> I couldn't echo your comments more perfectly!  I run it for fun but it is
>> only an email handler and toy for me... besides I haven't the time.
>>
>> 73,
>> Bill
>> K9YEQ
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>>
>>
>> Let me give one OT "RANT", and then I will shut up on this subject.
>> Suffice it to say that I have been extremely disappointing in all Linux
>> distributions because of the lack of any organized support fort the users -
>> the attitude seems to be "if you don't already understand the nuances of
>> Linux, we will shame your questions and be very unhelpful.
>> Check out the various forums and "FAQ" lists to verify this attitude.
>>
>> I have tried Ubuntu, Linux Mint, and Debian in the recent past, and have
>> found that unless you wish to spend a loot of time in "geekdom study", the
>> terms are cryptic and not logical acronyms, and  the user groups are useless
>> unless one is already fluent in their brand of "geek-speak".
>> Yes, I am computer fluent in Windows and peer-to-peer networking - I have
>> worked with PCs since the Apple II days and the IBM PC DOS systems are no
>> stranger to me, but the Linux groups are just not helpful at all to those
>> who do not understand their peculiar cryptic language.
>>
>> In other words, there are no clear and concise instructions for Linux.
>> The "Man pages" are supposedly the answer, but they offer geek-speak
>> explanations for those who are not initiated and expert into the Linux brand
>> of geekdom.
>>
>> I know, there are many who will disagree, but you will have to point me to a
>> (non-on-line) manual that I can use as a reference book and is similar to
>> those like "Mastering Windows XP Professional", Linux in any distro is just
>> not going to "make the grade".
>>
>> For those who simply want to do email and surf the web, Ubuntu is great, as
>> is Linux Mint - it has all the tools those users need, but for those who
>> want to do such things as network a Linux workstation into a Windows peer to
>> peer network, there is just not enough explicit information about how to set
>> it up and make it work. Windows peer-to-peer is native, but with Linux, it
>> is a complex "add-on" that I have not been able to master after several
>> attempts with Samba configuration.
>>
>> I once thought Linux would be my road to salvation without buying
>> Windows7 for 7 computers on my home network, but it just does not work
>> consistently, so I guess I will have to spend the upgrade fees for Win7.
>

Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

One of the comments attributed to Kernigan or Ritchie, forget which,
was "If I had known that it [Unix] was going to become a widely used
system instead of the narrowly targeted in-house tool first imagined,
I would have named programs and functions more carefully.  I was just
having fun with the names."

Unix-ish systems like Linux are remarkably non-intuitive, until you
have learned it.  It does not extend off anything else that is well
known.  It does not suit appliance-user level OS purchasers.  I have
used Unix and variants since 1973, and have watched 10 struggle to get
going for every 1 who got it easy.  The mental mindset of a person
commonly called a "computer geek" is very useful for learning Unix
variants.

There are many advantages to the Unix system. The only more scalable
system on the planet is IBM's mainframe ZOS, and even that now has a
complete "Unix services subsystem" as an integrated part of the OS.
Lot of huge stuff simply could not be done without it, including apps
I managed at SAS Institute before I retired.

BUT, it will never be the general population OS, and for good reason.
That doesn't make Linux good or bad, or OSX good or bad.  But a Linux
K3 utility will never be the mainline device as is the Windows
version.  But the Linux version is likely to be a favorite of a
professional who uses some Unix variant all day, and is just thinking
in that frame of reference when he gets home.

73, Guy.

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 6:37 PM, Bill K9YEQ  wrote:
> Don,
>
> I couldn't echo your comments more perfectly!  I run it for fun but it is
> only an email handler and toy for me... besides I haven't the time.
>
> 73,
> Bill
> K9YEQ
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
>
> Let me give one OT "RANT", and then I will shut up on this subject.
> Suffice it to say that I have been extremely disappointing in all Linux
> distributions because of the lack of any organized support fort the users -
> the attitude seems to be "if you don't already understand the nuances of
> Linux, we will shame your questions and be very unhelpful.
> Check out the various forums and "FAQ" lists to verify this attitude.
>
> I have tried Ubuntu, Linux Mint, and Debian in the recent past, and have
> found that unless you wish to spend a loot of time in "geekdom study", the
> terms are cryptic and not logical acronyms, and  the user groups are useless
> unless one is already fluent in their brand of "geek-speak".
> Yes, I am computer fluent in Windows and peer-to-peer networking - I have
> worked with PCs since the Apple II days and the IBM PC DOS systems are no
> stranger to me, but the Linux groups are just not helpful at all to those
> who do not understand their peculiar cryptic language.
>
> In other words, there are no clear and concise instructions for Linux.
> The "Man pages" are supposedly the answer, but they offer geek-speak
> explanations for those who are not initiated and expert into the Linux brand
> of geekdom.
>
> I know, there are many who will disagree, but you will have to point me to a
> (non-on-line) manual that I can use as a reference book and is similar to
> those like "Mastering Windows XP Professional", Linux in any distro is just
> not going to "make the grade".
>
> For those who simply want to do email and surf the web, Ubuntu is great, as
> is Linux Mint - it has all the tools those users need, but for those who
> want to do such things as network a Linux workstation into a Windows peer to
> peer network, there is just not enough explicit information about how to set
> it up and make it work. Windows peer-to-peer is native, but with Linux, it
> is a complex "add-on" that I have not been able to master after several
> attempts with Samba configuration.
>
> I once thought Linux would be my road to salvation without buying
> Windows7 for 7 computers on my home network, but it just does not work
> consistently, so I guess I will have to spend the upgrade fees for Win7.
>
> So until Linux gives up its superior "I am geek and I want it to stay that
> way" attitude, it will never fly properly.  Ubuntu and Mint have come a long
> way in making installation easier, but there is a long way to go in
> usability.
>
> Linux will also have to give up using "cute" names for applications to make
> sense to users - for instance, Photoshop has a relevant name for photo
> editing, but GIMP might mean something like "geeky image manipulating
> program" to Linux fans, but it has no obvioous meaning to the average user.
>
> Until Linux "gets real" instead of continuing to be "geeky", it will never
> fly - meaningful names are important - at least that is my opinion
> - I equate abstract naming to "geeky", and by saying "geeky" it means
> exclusionary, and not to be understood by the general user.  And that is
> what is wrong with Linux.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 7/9/2012 11:38 PM, Dick Roth wrote:
>> FYI...to get to manage users and groups one needs to install
>> "gnome-system-tools".  This can be done via the gui Ub

Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Jussi Eloranta]

>
> Let me give one OT "RANT", and then I will shut up on this subject.
> Suffice it to say that I have been extremely disappointing in all Linux
> distributions because of the lack of any organized support fort the users -
> the attitude seems to be "if you don't already understand the nuances of
> Linux, we will shame your questions and be very unhelpful.
> Check out the various forums and "FAQ" lists to verify this attitude.
>
> I have tried Ubuntu, Linux Mint, and Debian in the recent past, and have
> found that unless you wish to spend a loot of time in "geekdom study", the
> terms are cryptic and not logical acronyms, and  the user groups are useless
> unless one is already fluent in their brand of "geek-speak".
> Yes, I am computer fluent in Windows and peer-to-peer networking - I have
> worked with PCs since the Apple II days and the IBM PC DOS systems are no
> stranger to me, but the Linux groups are just not helpful at all to those
> who do not understand their peculiar cryptic language.
>
> In other words, there are no clear and concise instructions for Linux.
> The "Man pages" are supposedly the answer, but they offer geek-speak
> explanations for those who are not initiated and expert into the Linux brand
> of geekdom.
>
> I know, there are many who will disagree, but you will have to point me to a
> (non-on-line) manual that I can use as a reference book and is similar to
> those like "Mastering Windows XP Professional", Linux in any distro is just
> not going to "make the grade".
>
> For those who simply want to do email and surf the web, Ubuntu is great, as
> is Linux Mint - it has all the tools those users need, but for those who
> want to do such things as network a Linux workstation into a Windows peer to
> peer network, there is just not enough explicit information about how to set
> it up and make it work. Windows peer-to-peer is native, but with Linux, it
> is a complex "add-on" that I have not been able to master after several
> attempts with Samba configuration.
>
I don't think these quite belong to the Elecraft list but since this 
already took off...

If you can't understand how computers work, use what ever you can. Linux 
(and Unix in general) is superior to anything made my microsoft pretty 
much from every aspect. Talking about these two at the same time is like 
comparing ham radio and CB.

Just my $.02,

Jussi Eloranta (AA6KJ)

ps. BTW Setting up samba is trivial - takes about 3 minutes. There are 
many step by step instructions on the net.


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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Bill K9YEQ]

Tony,

Reminds me of OSX.  I was a devotee until MS pulled the plug on DOS.

73,
Bill
K9YEQ


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Tony Estep
Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2012 9:48 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 6:18 AM, Bill Cotter  wrote:

>
> You have expressed what the marketplace confirms...

===
Yep. Remember that at one time Unix dominated the workstation market in
finance and other major industries. Sun, IBM and HP all had versions, and
every Wall Street trader's desk had one of their workstations hooked up to
an all-Unix network. When NT version 3 came out, it was buggy and the
machines it ran on were wimpy, but the rush to ditch Unix and switch to NT
swept the street within a year or two. Now none of the three once-dominant
workstation companies are selling those products, and in fact Sun is
defunct. Don's comments may sound unfair to a hard-core Unix person, but
they are a valid reflection of the Unix experience as it affects many users,
and as it obliterated what was once a flourishing component of the tech
industry.

Of course Unix will do the job; that isn't the issue. After all, various
flavors of Unix underlie Mac OS, Android OS, your router, your microwave
oven, your network provider, Google, Facebook, and so forth. The PR problem
that it has had lies not in the power of its kernel or its networking or
file-handling, but rather in the opacity that confounds the user who just
wants to hook up his printer or download a file. An earlier post explaining
why some cryptic gibberish was not, in fact, cryptic, illustrates this
perfectly: "...666 is octal notation for granting permission." If this
is obvious to you, then Unix is for you. If not, not.

73,
Tony KT0NY







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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Bill K9YEQ]

Don,

I couldn't echo your comments more perfectly!  I run it for fun but it is
only an email handler and toy for me... besides I haven't the time.

73,
Bill
K9YEQ


-Original Message-


Let me give one OT "RANT", and then I will shut up on this subject. 
Suffice it to say that I have been extremely disappointing in all Linux
distributions because of the lack of any organized support fort the users -
the attitude seems to be "if you don't already understand the nuances of
Linux, we will shame your questions and be very unhelpful.  
Check out the various forums and "FAQ" lists to verify this attitude.

I have tried Ubuntu, Linux Mint, and Debian in the recent past, and have
found that unless you wish to spend a loot of time in "geekdom study", the
terms are cryptic and not logical acronyms, and  the user groups are useless
unless one is already fluent in their brand of "geek-speak".  
Yes, I am computer fluent in Windows and peer-to-peer networking - I have
worked with PCs since the Apple II days and the IBM PC DOS systems are no
stranger to me, but the Linux groups are just not helpful at all to those
who do not understand their peculiar cryptic language.

In other words, there are no clear and concise instructions for Linux.  
The "Man pages" are supposedly the answer, but they offer geek-speak
explanations for those who are not initiated and expert into the Linux brand
of geekdom.

I know, there are many who will disagree, but you will have to point me to a
(non-on-line) manual that I can use as a reference book and is similar to
those like "Mastering Windows XP Professional", Linux in any distro is just
not going to "make the grade".

For those who simply want to do email and surf the web, Ubuntu is great, as
is Linux Mint - it has all the tools those users need, but for those who
want to do such things as network a Linux workstation into a Windows peer to
peer network, there is just not enough explicit information about how to set
it up and make it work. Windows peer-to-peer is native, but with Linux, it
is a complex "add-on" that I have not been able to master after several
attempts with Samba configuration.

I once thought Linux would be my road to salvation without buying
Windows7 for 7 computers on my home network, but it just does not work
consistently, so I guess I will have to spend the upgrade fees for Win7.

So until Linux gives up its superior "I am geek and I want it to stay that
way" attitude, it will never fly properly.  Ubuntu and Mint have come a long
way in making installation easier, but there is a long way to go in
usability.

Linux will also have to give up using "cute" names for applications to make
sense to users - for instance, Photoshop has a relevant name for photo
editing, but GIMP might mean something like "geeky image manipulating
program" to Linux fans, but it has no obvioous meaning to the average user.

Until Linux "gets real" instead of continuing to be "geeky", it will never
fly - meaningful names are important - at least that is my opinion
- I equate abstract naming to "geeky", and by saying "geeky" it means
exclusionary, and not to be understood by the general user.  And that is
what is wrong with Linux.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/9/2012 11:38 PM, Dick Roth wrote:
> FYI...to get to manage users and groups one needs to install
> "gnome-system-tools".  This can be done via the gui Ubuntu Software
> Center.  Once installed you can get to Users and Groups through the
> Dash.


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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Jim Lowman]

Michael, a lot has changed in the 47 years since I got onto amateur radio.
Early on, many hams built, and even designed, their own radio equipment.
In fact, much of what was in QST and other amateur publications at that
time were articles on construction, and many built from those designs and
parts lists.

Commercially-available receivers, transmitters and transceivers have been
around well before 1965, as was the term "appliance operator."

For many of us at that time, interest in amateur radio often led to career
opportunities, or led us to studies in the electronics field in college or
technical schools.  Advances in technology and deregulation by the FCC
caused many of those opportunities to vanish.

Except for a cadre of QRP enthusiasts and VHF/UHF experimenters, we
are all becoming appliance operators or are heading in that direction.

Heathkit went out of business many years ago, although their kits
continue in operation to this day.  Today, with the advent of SDR 
technology,
so much of what's in a K3 or KX3 is SMT.  How many of us really would want
to install all of those miniature components?  I know that I wouldn't, even
with having good eyesight and a steady hand still.  So, most of us who
buy from Elecraft are reduced to being mechanical assemblers, although it
is still possible to have the enjoyment of soldering through-hole parts and
winding toroids with the K1 and K2.

I had not been to HRO in about 10 years, and visited the San Diego store
when we were visiting my father-in-law.  Looking around, I noticed a number
of pre-built G5RV, dipole and J-Pole antennas; things that could be easily
constructed, and probably at less cost.  I had to wonder what was 
sacrificed
in order to display these items.

That being said, I will buy coax cable with the connectors attached. To this
day I still have an arrogance about putting connectors on coax cables.  
As we
used to say in radar maintenance in the Air Force, "That's 3-level work;"
with "3-level"meaning guys who just arrived from tech school with no
field experience.

I'm also a believer in Linux, but realize that most software developed for
the amateur radio market is Windows-based.  Thus, I continue to expand
my knowledge in Linux as a hobby, having retired from the IT profession.

73 de Jim - AD6CW
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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Tony Estep]

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 6:18 AM, Bill Cotter  wrote:

>
> You have expressed what the marketplace confirms...

===
Yep. Remember that at one time Unix dominated the workstation market in
finance and other major industries. Sun, IBM and HP all had versions, and
every Wall Street trader's desk had one of their workstations hooked up to
an all-Unix network. When NT version 3 came out, it was buggy and the
machines it ran on were wimpy, but the rush to ditch Unix and switch to NT
swept the street within a year or two. Now none of the three once-dominant
workstation companies are selling those products, and in fact Sun is
defunct. Don's comments may sound unfair to a hard-core Unix person, but
they are a valid reflection of the Unix experience as it affects many
users, and as it obliterated what was once a flourishing component of the
tech industry.

Of course Unix will do the job; that isn't the issue. After all, various
flavors of Unix underlie Mac OS, Android OS, your router, your microwave
oven, your network provider, Google, Facebook, and so forth. The PR problem
that it has had lies not in the power of its kernel or its networking or
file-handling, but rather in the opacity that confounds the user who just
wants to hook up his printer or download a file. An earlier post explaining
why some cryptic gibberish was not, in fact, cryptic, illustrates this
perfectly: "...666 is octal notation for granting permission." If this
is obvious to you, then Unix is for you. If not, not.

73,
Tony KT0NY







-- 
http://www.isb.edu/faculty/facultydir.aspx?ddlFaculty=352
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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Michael D. Adams]

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 12:24 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> Let me give one OT "RANT", and then I will shut up on this subject.
> Suffice it to say that I have been extremely disappointing in all Linux
> distributions because of the lack of any organized support fort the
> users - the attitude seems to be "if you don't already understand the
> nuances of Linux, we will shame your questions and be very unhelpful.
> Check out the various forums and "FAQ" lists to verify this attitude.

I can bring the (understandable) OT rant back a bit closer to
relevance, if not all the way back to on-topic.  )

I am a relative newcomer to amateur radio.   I also dabbled with Linux
once upon a time (actually, I was acquainted with Linus back in the
early days of Linux).

I can actually see a number of parallels between Linux and amateur
radio, insofar as the challenges interested folks may face when
climbing the learning curve.

In my day job, I'm an actuary.  I don't have an electronics or
communications background...or much of a science background at all, in
fact.   When it comes to computers and radio, I'm definitely a "power
user" rather than a developer/programmer/builder.  In some AR circles,
I would be criticized or ostracized as being a mere "appliance
operator"... and that probably isn't too far wrong.

As an outsider / newcomer, both Linux and amateur radio have fairly
steep learning curves.  Most of the material available beyond the
ground-floor bare-bones basics can be confusing, written by people who
assume too-much knowledge and/or are not professional writers of
documentation.   Perhaps there's something about both pursuits that
tends to attract people who enjoy "doing" a lot more than "writing
about having done".  And, perhaps such people are more prone to either
having a little arrogance about their success, or to having a
preference to spend time with others who have been initiated into the
fraternity, rather than mere muggles.

Honestly, part of the fun of amateur radio to me is that I'm having to
learn a lot from areas outside my traditional areas of
expertise/interest, and I'm enjoying the mental exercise.  To be
successful in both pursuits, it is helpful to be a self-starter, to
have a thick skin.   It's a heckuva lot easier to make progress in
both Linux and amateur radio, if you can find a few folks willing to
offer some tips.

Perhaps it would be helpful for hams who have struggled with Linux to
keep that frustration in mind when it comes to leaving a few
breadcrumbs around for potential new hams.   And remember: if Linux
were easy and more digestible to the mass market, it would be OS/X.
Similarly, if amateur radio were easy and more digestible to the mass
market, it would be CB/FRS/GMRS.

--
Michael D. Adams (AB1OD)
Poquonock, Connecticut | m...@ab1od.org
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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Nate Bargmann]

With all due respect, Don, I've read your comments and some are fair and
some may not be so fair.  Allow me to explain.

First, I get the impression that part of your frustration stems from
your existing knowledge of MS Windows quirks and an expectation to be
able to use this knowledge directly to the Linux distribution of your
choice.  I think that is a bit unfair as it's akin to expecting my
existing knowledge of Yaesu HF radios to transfer directly to my K3.
That was not the case and I prepared myself to accept and learn the K3
as it is and not attempt to overlay my Yaesu knowledge onto it.

A Linux distribution is not a bug-for-bug drop-in replacement for any
version of MS Windows.  It is its own system and, as you have expressed,
has its own vernacular and jargon.  I'm not going to assert that one is
correct and the other is not, it just is what it is, to use an over used
phrase.  While general computing concepts transfer between systems, I
have found that I need to just accept the differences and move on.
Being more familiar with Linux I often find working with MS Windows to
be an eye-gougingly frustrating experience and cannot fathom how anyone
believes it to be "better" except from a perspective of familiarity.

As for distributions, a lot of people reach for Ubuntu these days.
Since its adoption of Unity for its GUI, I think that Ubuntu has made a
terrible regression for anyone interested in doing anything more than
surfing the Web and reading email or doing multi-media work.  My
recommendation based on my experience is to point people toward Xubuntu
which uses the XFCE4 desktop which is much like the older version of
GNOME.  It works well and even has a menu entry to manage users and
groups in its System menu.  It is also quick and has lighter system
requirements than Ubuntu or Mint.

* On 2012 09 Jul 23:25 -0500, Don Wilhelm wrote:
 
> In other words, there are no clear and concise instructions for Linux.  
> The "Man pages" are supposedly the answer, but they offer geek-speak 
> explanations for those who are not initiated and expert into the Linux 
> brand of geekdom.

There is a group of HOWTOs that has been maintained for years:

http://www.tldp.org/docs.html#howto

http://www.tldp.org/

I don't know if a guide exists that is a cross-reference from your
Windows knowledge to Linux, which seems to me what you're asking for.

Believe it or not, there are some people who have not used MS Windows
and find it as foreign as experienced Windows users find Linux.  That
doesn't help you, but I think it points to my long held belief that
whatever one learns first goes a long way to establishing the foundation
in one's mind of how things should be.
 
> I once thought Linux would be my road to salvation without buying 
> Windows7 for 7 computers on my home network, but it just does not work 
> consistently, so I guess I will have to spend the upgrade fees for Win7.

I'm not sure what you're fighting here as I have no problem with Linux
networking.  Perhaps what you are looking for is something like:

http://www.reactos.org/en/index.html

I have never tried it and cannot comment on its stability and
compatibility.

> So until Linux gives up its superior "I am geek and I want it to stay 
> that way" attitude, it will never fly properly.  Ubuntu and Mint have 
> come a long way in making installation easier, but there is a long way 
> to go in usability.

I don't quite know how to respond to this except that once again I
suspect you may have been expecting a "just like MS Windows" set of
options and menu entries.  I think that is a failing of us who have
engaged in Linux advocacy over the years where Linux has been touted to
be "just like Windows".  

I have never used Apple's OS/X but I never hear anyone complain that
it's not "just like Windows" even though casual reading of this and
other mailing lists indicate to me that it is its own system and people
just accept that.  I don't see commentary such as yours regarding OS/X,
but I don't pay much attention to OS/X topics so the comments may exist
and I just don't see it.  To be fair, OS/X is the realization of one
vision.  Linux is the realization of a free-flowing and formless
community's vision.

> Linux will also have to give up using "cute" names for applications to 
> make sense to users - for instance, Photoshop has a relevant name for 
> photo editing, but GIMP might mean something like "geeky image 
> manipulating program" to Linux fans, but it has no obvioous meaning to 
> the average user.

I hate to say, but this is a bit of a strawman argument.  Photoshop
existed before the GIMP.  There is no way Adobe would have allowed the
authors of the GIMP to use or allude to their name in any way.  GIMP
actually stands for GNU Image Manipulation Program.  What would be a
proper name?

> Until Linux "gets real" instead of continuing to be "geeky", it will 
> never fly - meaningful names are important - at least that is my opinion 
> - I equate abstract nam

Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Dick Roth]

I might as well chime in:  in my opinion Linux, as Unix, was and is
never meant to be a mainstream OS.  Linux, a version of Unix designed
for the Intel CPU space, is a technologist's tool.  It has been built
over the years to satisfy needs of folks dealing with technology.  For
those that need support, there are avenues to commercial support either
through the distro (Red Hat, Ubuntu) or by independents.

Since a fair number of hams work in technology, it is fitting that there
be available the K3 (et al) Utility in a form usable on the Linux
platform.

I will now go back to reading the mail...

-- 
73 de Dick, ka1oz

Elecraft K3/100
Titan-DX Vertical
G5RV Doublet



On Tue, 2012-07-10 at 07:18 -0400, Bill Cotter wrote:
> Don,
> 
> You have expressed what the marketplace confirms - people who want 
> more (ie: clear documentation) in an OS will pay more to get it. MS 
> Windows and products deliver the goods in that department, Apple 
> even more so in an odd way.
> 
> Linux will never be mainstream until it reaches outside its 
> community and serves the popular marketplace. Since there is 
> limited commercialization to cultivate the product, it's unlikely 
> that it will happen. Novell & RedHat tried, and didn't get very far.
> 
> 73 N4LG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 12:24 AM 7/10/2012, Don Wilhelm wrote:
> >Let me give one OT "RANT", and then I will shut up on this subject.
> >Suffice it to say that I have been extremely disappointing in all 
> >Linux
> >distributions because of the lack of any organized support fort the
> >users - the attitude seems to be "if you don't already understand the
> >nuances of Linux, we will shame your questions and be very 
> >unhelpful.
> >Check out the various forums and "FAQ" lists to verify this attitude.
> >
> >I have tried Ubuntu, Linux Mint, and Debian in the recent past, 
> >and have
> >found that unless you wish to spend a loot of time in "geekdom 
> >study",
> >the terms are cryptic and not logical acronyms, and  the user 
> >groups are
> >useless unless one is already fluent in their brand of "geek-speak".
> >Yes, I am computer fluent in Windows and peer-to-peer networking - I
> >have worked with PCs since the Apple II days and the IBM PC DOS 
> >systems
> >are no stranger to me, but the Linux groups are just not helpful 
> >at all
> >to those who do not understand their peculiar cryptic language.
> >
> >In other words, there are no clear and concise instructions for 
> >Linux.
> >The "Man pages" are supposedly the answer, but they offer geek-speak
> >explanations for those who are not initiated and expert into the 
> >Linux
> >brand of geekdom.
> >
> >I know, there are many who will disagree, but you will have to 
> >point me
> >to a (non-on-line) manual that I can use as a reference book and is
> >similar to those like "Mastering Windows XP Professional", Linux 
> >in any
> >distro is just not going to "make the grade".
> >
> >For those who simply want to do email and surf the web, Ubuntu is 
> >great,
> >as is Linux Mint - it has all the tools those users need, but for 
> >those
> >who want to do such things as network a Linux workstation into a 
> >Windows
> >peer to peer network, there is just not enough explicit information
> >about how to set it up and make it work. Windows peer-to-peer is 
> >native,
> >but with Linux, it is a complex "add-on" that I have not been able to
> >master after several attempts with Samba configuration.
> >
> >I once thought Linux would be my road to salvation without buying
> >Windows7 for 7 computers on my home network, but it just does not 
> >work
> >consistently, so I guess I will have to spend the upgrade fees for 
> >Win7.
> >
> >So until Linux gives up its superior "I am geek and I want it to stay
> >that way" attitude, it will never fly properly.  Ubuntu and Mint have
> >come a long way in making installation easier, but there is a long 
> >way
> >to go in usability.
> >
> >Linux will also have to give up using "cute" names for 
> >applications to
> >make sense to users - for instance, Photoshop has a relevant name for
> >photo editing, but GIMP might mean something like "geeky image
> >manipulating program" to Linux fans, but it has no obvioous 
> >meaning to
> >the average user.
> >
> >Until Linux "gets real" instead of continuing to be "geeky", it will
> >never fly - meaningful names are important - at least that is my 
> >opinion
> >- I equate abstract naming to "geeky", and by saying "geeky" it means
> >exclusionary, and not to be understood by the general user.  And 
> >that is
> >what is wrong with Linux.
> >
> >73,
> >Don W3FPR
> >
> >On 7/9/2012 11:38 PM, Dick Roth wrote:
> > > FYI...to get to manage users and groups one needs to install
> > > "gnome-system-tools".  This can be done via the gui Ubuntu Software
> > > Center.  Once installed you can get to Users and Groups through the
> > > Dash.
> >
> >
> >__
> >Elecraft mailing list
> >Home: http://mailm

Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Bill Cotter]

Don,

You have expressed what the marketplace confirms - people who want 
more (ie: clear documentation) in an OS will pay more to get it. MS 
Windows and products deliver the goods in that department, Apple 
even more so in an odd way.

Linux will never be mainstream until it reaches outside its 
community and serves the popular marketplace. Since there is 
limited commercialization to cultivate the product, it's unlikely 
that it will happen. Novell & RedHat tried, and didn't get very far.

73 N4LG







At 12:24 AM 7/10/2012, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>Let me give one OT "RANT", and then I will shut up on this subject.
>Suffice it to say that I have been extremely disappointing in all 
>Linux
>distributions because of the lack of any organized support fort the
>users - the attitude seems to be "if you don't already understand the
>nuances of Linux, we will shame your questions and be very 
>unhelpful.
>Check out the various forums and "FAQ" lists to verify this attitude.
>
>I have tried Ubuntu, Linux Mint, and Debian in the recent past, 
>and have
>found that unless you wish to spend a loot of time in "geekdom 
>study",
>the terms are cryptic and not logical acronyms, and  the user 
>groups are
>useless unless one is already fluent in their brand of "geek-speak".
>Yes, I am computer fluent in Windows and peer-to-peer networking - I
>have worked with PCs since the Apple II days and the IBM PC DOS 
>systems
>are no stranger to me, but the Linux groups are just not helpful 
>at all
>to those who do not understand their peculiar cryptic language.
>
>In other words, there are no clear and concise instructions for 
>Linux.
>The "Man pages" are supposedly the answer, but they offer geek-speak
>explanations for those who are not initiated and expert into the 
>Linux
>brand of geekdom.
>
>I know, there are many who will disagree, but you will have to 
>point me
>to a (non-on-line) manual that I can use as a reference book and is
>similar to those like "Mastering Windows XP Professional", Linux 
>in any
>distro is just not going to "make the grade".
>
>For those who simply want to do email and surf the web, Ubuntu is 
>great,
>as is Linux Mint - it has all the tools those users need, but for 
>those
>who want to do such things as network a Linux workstation into a 
>Windows
>peer to peer network, there is just not enough explicit information
>about how to set it up and make it work. Windows peer-to-peer is 
>native,
>but with Linux, it is a complex "add-on" that I have not been able to
>master after several attempts with Samba configuration.
>
>I once thought Linux would be my road to salvation without buying
>Windows7 for 7 computers on my home network, but it just does not 
>work
>consistently, so I guess I will have to spend the upgrade fees for 
>Win7.
>
>So until Linux gives up its superior "I am geek and I want it to stay
>that way" attitude, it will never fly properly.  Ubuntu and Mint have
>come a long way in making installation easier, but there is a long 
>way
>to go in usability.
>
>Linux will also have to give up using "cute" names for 
>applications to
>make sense to users - for instance, Photoshop has a relevant name for
>photo editing, but GIMP might mean something like "geeky image
>manipulating program" to Linux fans, but it has no obvioous 
>meaning to
>the average user.
>
>Until Linux "gets real" instead of continuing to be "geeky", it will
>never fly - meaningful names are important - at least that is my 
>opinion
>- I equate abstract naming to "geeky", and by saying "geeky" it means
>exclusionary, and not to be understood by the general user.  And 
>that is
>what is wrong with Linux.
>
>73,
>Don W3FPR
>
>On 7/9/2012 11:38 PM, Dick Roth wrote:
> > FYI...to get to manage users and groups one needs to install
> > "gnome-system-tools".  This can be done via the gui Ubuntu Software
> > Center.  Once installed you can get to Users and Groups through the
> > Dash.
>
>
>__
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>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Don Wilhelm]

Let me give one OT "RANT", and then I will shut up on this subject. 
Suffice it to say that I have been extremely disappointing in all Linux 
distributions because of the lack of any organized support fort the 
users - the attitude seems to be "if you don't already understand the 
nuances of Linux, we will shame your questions and be very unhelpful.  
Check out the various forums and "FAQ" lists to verify this attitude.

I have tried Ubuntu, Linux Mint, and Debian in the recent past, and have 
found that unless you wish to spend a loot of time in "geekdom study", 
the terms are cryptic and not logical acronyms, and  the user groups are 
useless unless one is already fluent in their brand of "geek-speak".  
Yes, I am computer fluent in Windows and peer-to-peer networking - I 
have worked with PCs since the Apple II days and the IBM PC DOS systems 
are no stranger to me, but the Linux groups are just not helpful at all 
to those who do not understand their peculiar cryptic language.

In other words, there are no clear and concise instructions for Linux.  
The "Man pages" are supposedly the answer, but they offer geek-speak 
explanations for those who are not initiated and expert into the Linux 
brand of geekdom.

I know, there are many who will disagree, but you will have to point me 
to a (non-on-line) manual that I can use as a reference book and is 
similar to those like "Mastering Windows XP Professional", Linux in any 
distro is just not going to "make the grade".

For those who simply want to do email and surf the web, Ubuntu is great, 
as is Linux Mint - it has all the tools those users need, but for those 
who want to do such things as network a Linux workstation into a Windows 
peer to peer network, there is just not enough explicit information 
about how to set it up and make it work. Windows peer-to-peer is native, 
but with Linux, it is a complex "add-on" that I have not been able to 
master after several attempts with Samba configuration.

I once thought Linux would be my road to salvation without buying 
Windows7 for 7 computers on my home network, but it just does not work 
consistently, so I guess I will have to spend the upgrade fees for Win7.

So until Linux gives up its superior "I am geek and I want it to stay 
that way" attitude, it will never fly properly.  Ubuntu and Mint have 
come a long way in making installation easier, but there is a long way 
to go in usability.

Linux will also have to give up using "cute" names for applications to 
make sense to users - for instance, Photoshop has a relevant name for 
photo editing, but GIMP might mean something like "geeky image 
manipulating program" to Linux fans, but it has no obvioous meaning to 
the average user.

Until Linux "gets real" instead of continuing to be "geeky", it will 
never fly - meaningful names are important - at least that is my opinion 
- I equate abstract naming to "geeky", and by saying "geeky" it means 
exclusionary, and not to be understood by the general user.  And that is 
what is wrong with Linux.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/9/2012 11:38 PM, Dick Roth wrote:
> FYI...to get to manage users and groups one needs to install
> "gnome-system-tools".  This can be done via the gui Ubuntu Software
> Center.  Once installed you can get to Users and Groups through the
> Dash.


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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Dick Roth]

FYI...to get to manage users and groups one needs to install
"gnome-system-tools".  This can be done via the gui Ubuntu Software
Center.  Once installed you can get to Users and Groups through the
Dash.
-- 
73 de Dick, ka1oz

Elecraft K3/100
Titan-DX Vertical
G5RV Doublet



On Mon, 2012-07-09 at 18:06 -0500, W Paul Mills wrote:
> Yup! Also note that updating groups with a gui in later versions
> including 12.04 may require searching for "Users and Groups" in "Dash
> Home"...  Does not seem to show up in ANY menus. Wonderful new "feature" :)
> 
> On 07/09/2012 02:13 PM, Adrian wrote:
> > That's a good trick thanks, so contained within <...> the wordwrap or
> > whatever feature that messes it up stays at bay.
> > 
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[W Paul Mills]

Yup! Also note that updating groups with a gui in later versions
including 12.04 may require searching for "Users and Groups" in "Dash
Home"...  Does not seem to show up in ANY menus. Wonderful new "feature" :)

On 07/09/2012 02:13 PM, Adrian wrote:
> That's a good trick thanks, so contained within <...> the wordwrap or
> whatever feature that messes it up stays at bay.
> 

-- 
/*
* Amateur Radio Station AC0HY*
* W. Paul Mills SN807*
* Assistant EC Alpha-1 ARES Shawnee/Wabunsee, KS *
* President Kaw Valley Amateur Radio Club*
*/


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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Adrian]

That's a good trick thanks, so contained within <...> the wordwrap or
whatever feature that messes it up stays at bay.


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of W Paul Mills
Sent: Tuesday, 10 July 2012 1:15 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

<http://www.ubuntugeek.com/addmodify-and-delete-users-and-groups-in-ubuntu-u
sing-gui.html>

On 07/07/2012 05:25 PM, Adrian wrote:
> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/addmodify-and-delete-users-and-groups-in-ubu
> ntu-us
>
> 
ing-gui.html
> 
> Annoying when the link string gets broken.
> 
> -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Adrian Sent:
> Sunday, 8 July 2012 7:50 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject:
> Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04
> 
> This is an easy guide for a gui solution;
> 
> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/addmodify-and-delete-users-and-groups-in-ubu
> ntu-us
>
> 
ing-gui.html
> 
> -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill K9YEQ
> Sent: Sunday, 8 July 2012 7:10 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04
> 
> Perhaps I missed it, but I am thinking we would rather have a simple 
> GUI with easier commands?  I for one have no clue for programming but 
> use Ubuntu and shorter versions of Linux which don't require the 
> programming language which leaves me in a lurch.
> There is so much to know, so little time. Let the devotees do the GUI 
> for the mere mortals to use.  I use Puppy off a USB stick and it is so 
> simple... just like me.  NOT.  :=#
> 
> 73, Bill K9YEQ
> 
> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> 
> __
> Elecraft mailing list Home:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:
> mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
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> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> 
> __
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> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:
> mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email 
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> 


- --
/*
* Amateur Radio Station AC0HY*
* W. Paul Mills SN807*
* Assistant EC Alpha-1 ARES Shawnee/Wabunsee, KS *
* President Kaw Valley Amateur Radio Club*
*/


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Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAk/69VwACgkQ5tjVbfWfElwu9QCffL9jogI7O1jrYN8RVrR5OYx4
5UMAoPlD+qJhp1JffmZv4tvKEMabSEbP
=KQGN
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[W Paul Mills]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

<http://www.ubuntugeek.com/addmodify-and-delete-users-and-groups-in-ubuntu-using-gui.html>

On 07/07/2012 05:25 PM, Adrian wrote:
> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/addmodify-and-delete-users-and-groups-in-ubuntu-us
>
> 
ing-gui.html
> 
> Annoying when the link string gets broken.
> 
> -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Adrian Sent:
> Sunday, 8 July 2012 7:50 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject:
> Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04
> 
> This is an easy guide for a gui solution;
> 
> http://www.ubuntugeek.com/addmodify-and-delete-users-and-groups-in-ubuntu-us
>
> 
ing-gui.html
> 
> -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill K9YEQ 
> Sent: Sunday, 8 July 2012 7:10 AM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04
> 
> Perhaps I missed it, but I am thinking we would rather have a
> simple GUI with easier commands?  I for one have no clue for
> programming but use Ubuntu and shorter versions of Linux which
> don't require the programming language which leaves me in a lurch.
> There is so much to know, so little time. Let the devotees do the
> GUI for the mere mortals to use.  I use Puppy off a USB stick and
> it is so simple... just like me.  NOT.  :=#
> 
> 73, Bill K9YEQ
> 
> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> 
> __ 
> Elecraft mailing list Home:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:
> mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> 
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> 
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> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> 


- -- 
/*
* Amateur Radio Station AC0HY*
* W. Paul Mills SN807*
* Assistant EC Alpha-1 ARES Shawnee/Wabunsee, KS *
* President Kaw Valley Amateur Radio Club*
*/


-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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5UMAoPlD+qJhp1JffmZv4tvKEMabSEbP
=KQGN
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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Adrian]

Or stick my head in the fire also. Not quite that gullible ;)

Fedora 17 looks v-good, The latest linux is much more GUI orientated and
user friendly 
than years ago. Everyone seems to pick up Ubuntu, but the latest fedora is
very good.
CLI knowledge is very beneficial, also with windows. When your PC system
goes down,
 that knowledge can save you.

The worst thing about windows is the virus and malware attacks. I use
Microsoft Security Essentials (free) and find it very good rather than
paying virus upgrade
 subscriptions for systems that tend to slow down PC performance.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-AU/windows/products/security-essentials

I also use windows 7 and xp on the laptop as well.

 You don't see many companies support the range of OS available like
Elecraft do.
Maybe getting OT this thread, but hey we all use computers now in ham radio
even if occasionally.

Adrian ... vk4tux

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Nate Bargmann
Sent: Sunday, 8 July 2012 11:36 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

* On 2012 07 Jul 16:38 -0500, Adrian wrote:
 
> I am very naughty here and run as root all the time now in fedora 17 
> (started on centOS 5 and fedora 10),  so permissions are not an issue.
> 
> Have been doing that for 6 years and yet to have an issue.

Until someone tells you to:

cd /
rm -rf *

Have a nice day!

;-)

73, de Nate, N0NB >>

-- 

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds.
The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Jussi Eloranta]

On 07/07/2012 06:36 PM, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> * On 2012 07 Jul 16:38 -0500, Adrian wrote:
>   
>> I am very naughty here and run as root all the time now in fedora 17
>> (started on centOS 5 and fedora 10),  so permissions are not an issue.
>>
>> Have been doing that for 6 years and yet to have an issue.
> Until someone tells you to:
>
> cd /
> rm -rf *
>
> Have a nice day!
>
While you might not type that in, there might be an ill behaving program 
(on purpose or a bug) that could do something like that. Or simply you 
open up a tar archive or something and that might overwrite important 
files etc. I would strongly advise against running everything as root.

Jussi Eloranta (AA6KJ)

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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2012 07 Jul 16:38 -0500, Adrian wrote:
 
> I am very naughty here and run as root all the time now in fedora 17
> (started on centOS 5 and fedora 10),  so permissions are not an issue.
> 
> Have been doing that for 6 years and yet to have an issue.

Until someone tells you to:

cd /
rm -rf *

Have a nice day!

;-)

73, de Nate, N0NB >>

-- 

"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."

Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us
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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Matt Maguire]

The "super decoder ring" you seek is the Linux "man" command. For example:
man sudo
man chmod
man apt-get

This will explain what the commands and their various options do.

73, Matt VK2ACL



On 08/07/2012, at 12:56 AM, Brian Alsop  wrote:

> I hope all versions of Ubuntu come with a super decoder ring so that 
> mortals can make sense of these obviously encrypted commands.
> 
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
> 
> 
> On 7/7/2012 16:51, KC6D wrote:
>> I had trouble getting the KX3 Utility program to communicate with the radio
>> in Ubuntu.   Here's what solved the problem for me.  I take no credit for
>> figuring this out, these were postings by others that I found in three
>> different places.  I decided to collect the details here so they'd be all in
>> one spot.  Hope this helps someone.
>> 
>> The FTDI drivers for the USB cable provided by Elecraft are a native part of
>> Ubuntu 12.04 and do not need to be re-installed.  Just plug the cable into a
>> USB port.
>> 
>> I found these two additional steps are necessary before the Utility program
>> will successfully operate:
>> 
>> (Run in a terminal)
>> 
>>  sudo chmod 666 /dev/ttyUSB0
>> 
>>  sudo apt-get install curl
>> 
>> The first command is necessary to permit all users of the computer to access
>> the "serial" port ttyUSB0.  Note: the last character in USB0 is a zero.
>> Without this command you will get an error message telling you that the KX3
>> Utility program can't communicate with the port.
>> 
>> The second command installs the Linux function "curl" which enables Ubuntu
>> to automatically communicate with and download from the Elecraft (and anyone
>> else's) FTP server.  Note: the last character in "curl" is the letter L in
>> lower-case.  Without this command you will get an error message stating the
>> KX3 Utility program is unable to connect to the Elecraft FTP server.
>> 
>> Once I did the above the Utility program ran smoothly and the firmware
>> update and other functions all appear to work.
>> 
>>  Don  KC6D
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Firmware-upgrades-using-Ubuntu-12-04-tp7558796.html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2437/5116 - Release Date: 07/07/12
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2437/5116 - Release Date: 07/07/12
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Bill K9YEQ]

Well there you go, Matt.  I am unfamiliar with those.  I am such  an MS
person.  I don't use manual commands other than MS, so this doesn't help me.
I use the GUI which is just clicks and I don't do much command line as I
don't have to load up the getting older can't remember all this stuff, type
of activity.

73,
Bill
K9YEQ


-Original Message-
From: Matt Zilmer [mailto:mzil...@verizon.net] 
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 4:45 PM
To: Bill K9YEQ
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

Hi Bill,

These are just csh or bash commands, not programming.

73,
matt

On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 16:10:18 -0500, you wrote:

>Perhaps I missed it, but I am thinking we would rather have a simple 
>GUI with easier commands?  I for one have no clue for programming but 
>use Ubuntu and shorter versions of Linux which don't require the 
>programming language which leaves me in a lurch.  There is so much to 
>know, so little time. Let the devotees do the GUI for the mere mortals 
>to use.  I use Puppy off a USB stick and it is so simple... just like 
>me.  NOT.  :=#
>
>73,
>Bill
>K9YEQ
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
>[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Kevin
>Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 1:51 PM
>To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04
>
>Nothing cryptic about it.
>
>"sudo" allows users temporary "admin" or root user privi's to the 
>system to run commands or install software. When any user invokes sudo 
>they will be required to authenticate with user name and password.
>
>"chmod" is a *nix<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_shell> command that 
>lets a user tell the system how much (or little) access it should 
>permit to a file or 
>program.^<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chmod#cite_note-0>
>It changes the file system modes of files and directories. The modes 
>include permissions.
>
>The 666 is octal notation for granting users, groups, and "others" 
>read, write, and execute permissions to the USB filesystem.
>
>"install apt-get" is a command used in all Debian based Linux distro's 
>to install software *and all known dependencies*. The program 
>automatically downloads and installs software from the Debian/Ubuntu 
>repositories along with dependencies and installs it.
>
>
>In this case it installed the program cURL.
>
>
>On 07/07/2012 11:56 AM, Brian Alsop wrote:
>> I hope all versions of Ubuntu come with a super decoder ring so that 
>> mortals can make sense of these obviously encrypted commands.
>>
>> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>>

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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Adrian]

http://www.ubuntugeek.com/addmodify-and-delete-users-and-groups-in-ubuntu-us
ing-gui.html

Annoying when the link string gets broken.

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Adrian
Sent: Sunday, 8 July 2012 7:50 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

This is an easy guide for a gui solution;

http://www.ubuntugeek.com/addmodify-and-delete-users-and-groups-in-ubuntu-us
ing-gui.html

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill K9YEQ
Sent: Sunday, 8 July 2012 7:10 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

Perhaps I missed it, but I am thinking we would rather have a simple GUI
with easier commands?  I for one have no clue for programming but use Ubuntu
and shorter versions of Linux which don't require the programming language
which leaves me in a lurch.  There is so much to know, so little time. Let
the devotees do the GUI for the mere mortals to use.  I use Puppy off a USB
stick and it is so simple... just like me.  NOT.  :=#

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Adrian]

This is an easy guide for a gui solution;

http://www.ubuntugeek.com/addmodify-and-delete-users-and-groups-in-ubuntu-us
ing-gui.html

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill K9YEQ
Sent: Sunday, 8 July 2012 7:10 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

Perhaps I missed it, but I am thinking we would rather have a simple GUI
with easier commands?  I for one have no clue for programming but use Ubuntu
and shorter versions of Linux which don't require the programming language
which leaves me in a lurch.  There is so much to know, so little time. Let
the devotees do the GUI for the mere mortals to use.  I use Puppy off a USB
stick and it is so simple... just like me.  NOT.  :=#

73,
Bill
K9YEQ

email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Matt Zilmer]

Hi Bill,

These are just csh or bash commands, not programming.

73,
matt

On Sat, 07 Jul 2012 16:10:18 -0500, you wrote:

>Perhaps I missed it, but I am thinking we would rather have a simple GUI
>with easier commands?  I for one have no clue for programming but use Ubuntu
>and shorter versions of Linux which don't require the programming language
>which leaves me in a lurch.  There is so much to know, so little time. Let
>the devotees do the GUI for the mere mortals to use.  I use Puppy off a USB
>stick and it is so simple... just like me.  NOT.  :=#
>
>73,
>Bill
>K9YEQ
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
>[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Kevin
>Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 1:51 PM
>To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04
>
>Nothing cryptic about it.
>
>"sudo" allows users temporary "admin" or root user privi's to the system to
>run commands or install software. When any user invokes sudo they will be
>required to authenticate with user name and password.
>
>"chmod" is a *nix<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_shell> command that lets
>a user tell the system how much (or little) access it should permit to a
>file or program.^<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chmod#cite_note-0>
>It changes the file system modes of files and directories. The modes include
>permissions.
>
>The 666 is octal notation for granting users, groups, and "others" read,
>write, and execute permissions to the USB filesystem.
>
>"install apt-get" is a command used in all Debian based Linux distro's to
>install software *and all known dependencies*. The program automatically
>downloads and installs software from the Debian/Ubuntu repositories along
>with dependencies and installs it.
>
>
>In this case it installed the program cURL.
>
>
>On 07/07/2012 11:56 AM, Brian Alsop wrote:
>> I hope all versions of Ubuntu come with a super decoder ring so that 
>> mortals can make sense of these obviously encrypted commands.
>>
>> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>>
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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Bill K9YEQ]

Perhaps I missed it, but I am thinking we would rather have a simple GUI
with easier commands?  I for one have no clue for programming but use Ubuntu
and shorter versions of Linux which don't require the programming language
which leaves me in a lurch.  There is so much to know, so little time. Let
the devotees do the GUI for the mere mortals to use.  I use Puppy off a USB
stick and it is so simple... just like me.  NOT.  :=#

73,
Bill
K9YEQ


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Kevin
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 1:51 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

Nothing cryptic about it.

"sudo" allows users temporary "admin" or root user privi's to the system to
run commands or install software. When any user invokes sudo they will be
required to authenticate with user name and password.

"chmod" is a *nix<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIX_shell> command that lets
a user tell the system how much (or little) access it should permit to a
file or program.^<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chmod#cite_note-0>
It changes the file system modes of files and directories. The modes include
permissions.

The 666 is octal notation for granting users, groups, and "others" read,
write, and execute permissions to the USB filesystem.

"install apt-get" is a command used in all Debian based Linux distro's to
install software *and all known dependencies*. The program automatically
downloads and installs software from the Debian/Ubuntu repositories along
with dependencies and installs it.


In this case it installed the program cURL.


On 07/07/2012 11:56 AM, Brian Alsop wrote:
> I hope all versions of Ubuntu come with a super decoder ring so that 
> mortals can make sense of these obviously encrypted commands.
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>


--
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H

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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Kevin]

Nothing cryptic about it.

"sudo" allows users temporary "admin" or root user privi's to the system 
to run commands or install software. When any user invokes sudo they 
will be required to authenticate with user name and password.

"chmod" is a *nix command that 
lets a user tell the system how much (or little) access it should permit 
to a file or program.^ 
It changes the file system modes of files and directories. The modes 
include permissions.

The 666 is octal notation for granting users, groups, and "others" read, 
write, and execute permissions to the USB filesystem.

"install apt-get" is a command used in all Debian based Linux distro's 
to install software *and all known dependencies*. The program 
automatically downloads and installs software from the Debian/Ubuntu 
repositories along with dependencies and installs it.

In this case it installed the program cURL.


On 07/07/2012 11:56 AM, Brian Alsop wrote:
> I hope all versions of Ubuntu come with a super decoder ring so that
> mortals can make sense of these obviously encrypted commands.
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>


-- 
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H

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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Jussi Eloranta]

On 07/07/2012 09:56 AM, Brian Alsop wrote:
> I found these two additional steps are necessary before the Utility program
> will successfully operate:
>
> (Run in a terminal)
>
>sudo chmod 666 /dev/ttyUSB0
>
>sudo apt-get install curl
>
>
Rather than changing the device permissions (which you have to do every 
time you boot or unplug/plug the usb serial device),
you should add yourself to the dialout group:

sudo usermod -G dialout 

where  should be replaced with your username on the 
system. The above will execute as root, so you need to have sudo 
permissions. There is probably some GUI based tool for this but command 
line is simpler ;-) After doing this, you will need to logout and login 
again. You can verify that you have the correct group privs with the id 
command, for example, for me it says:

uid=500(eloranta) gid=500(eloranta) 
groups=500(eloranta),18(dialout),39(video),489(pulse-access),490(pulse),493(jackuser)

where 18(dialout) is the important part.

As for curl, I think the utility program should check for its existence 
during startup and appropriately tell the user to install it before 
proceeding.

Jussi Eloranta (AA6KJ)

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Re: [Elecraft] Firmware upgrades using Ubuntu 12.04

[Brian Alsop]

I hope all versions of Ubuntu come with a super decoder ring so that 
mortals can make sense of these obviously encrypted commands.

73 de Brian/K3KO


On 7/7/2012 16:51, KC6D wrote:
> I had trouble getting the KX3 Utility program to communicate with the radio
> in Ubuntu.   Here's what solved the problem for me.  I take no credit for
> figuring this out, these were postings by others that I found in three
> different places.  I decided to collect the details here so they'd be all in
> one spot.  Hope this helps someone.
>
> The FTDI drivers for the USB cable provided by Elecraft are a native part of
> Ubuntu 12.04 and do not need to be re-installed.  Just plug the cable into a
> USB port.
>
> I found these two additional steps are necessary before the Utility program
> will successfully operate:
>
> (Run in a terminal)
>
>   sudo chmod 666 /dev/ttyUSB0
>
>   sudo apt-get install curl
>
> The first command is necessary to permit all users of the computer to access
> the "serial" port ttyUSB0.  Note: the last character in USB0 is a zero.
> Without this command you will get an error message telling you that the KX3
> Utility program can't communicate with the port.
>
> The second command installs the Linux function "curl" which enables Ubuntu
> to automatically communicate with and download from the Elecraft (and anyone
> else's) FTP server.  Note: the last character in "curl" is the letter L in
> lower-case.  Without this command you will get an error message stating the
> KX3 Utility program is unable to connect to the Elecraft FTP server.
>
> Once I did the above the Utility program ran smoothly and the firmware
> update and other functions all appear to work.
>
>   Don  KC6D
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Firmware-upgrades-using-Ubuntu-12-04-tp7558796.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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>
> -
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2437/5116 - Release Date: 07/07/12
>
>



-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2178 / Virus Database: 2437/5116 - Release Date: 07/07/12

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