Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Walter Underwood]

Mike, are you AB7RU? I was looking for resources near you. I don’t see any 10 m 
repeaters in eastern Washington or in Idaho, so that is out.

You might listen for the daily 10-10 SSB nets.

http://www.ten-ten.org/index.php/activity/daily-nets 


There are also some 10 m beacons.

http://www.ten-ten.org/index.php/resources/ten-meter-beacons 


wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Aug 31, 2017, at 9:06 AM, Mike Parkes  wrote:
> 
> Bob,
> Thank you very much for sharing all that. I like your dipole approach
> there, getting at least one end up in the air at the roof level of that
> condo. I could possibly do something like that, slingshot a line to the
> rooftop of this apt bldg somehow ... Maybe with some kind of batman grapple
> hook thing on the end that can snag on something hi. My big concern here is
> how close the power lines are. Anyway. I am still mulling it over and
> continue to work with the buddistick (or the metal downspout on this bldg
> which tunes up surprisingly well on all bands).
> 
> Mostly I am just trying to keep the faith right now that something will
> work out here. There is a lot of background noise here...tuning across the
> bands I hear one weird "signal" after the other, swooshing in and out as i
> tune the bands, which must be the horrid interference thrown out from all
> the WiFi routers around here... 60 cycle noise, buzzes, pops, I mean it is
> a real cacophony of sounds. There must be all kinds of intermodulation
> sorts of interference, the rfi mixing with the kx3's receiver. The NB and
> NR of the kx3 actually does a good job knocking a lot of that back. So far
> not one contact though. Trying *not* to see my investment as a rather
> expensive mini boat anchor.
> 
> I think I will buy some China HT and at least get on 2 meters (not sure I
> am ready to spend the $260 on a 2 meter module for the kx3 just yet,
> although I will probably add it at some point anyway.)
> 
> I wish there was some way to at least scare up some local 10 meter (line of
> sight) activity here so that I could at determine if this radio is
> transmitting okay. Some local HF qso's would be great... But I am not a
> part of a local ham club or anything here to try and set up a sked with
> anyone. Anyway... I appreciate your thoughts there, I am still trying to
> figure out what I really hope to get out of ham radio. So far it is QSOs on
> this Elecraft mailing list :) which is a great group here... This band is
> always open as long as the internet works. :) 73s, mike.
> 
> On Aug 13, 2017 7:18 PM, "Bob McGraw K4TAX"  wrote:
> 
>> Mike:
>> 
>> Glad to share my thoughts and experiences.
>> 
>> As to using a dipole, feed it in the center with coax RG-58, RG-8X.  And
>> the dipole does not have to be in a straight line.  On the balcony or
>> patio, a single center support and droop the ends down in an inverted V
>> style.   Or stretch it out as straight as you can between two supports  and
>> droop the ends if it is longer than the two supports are spaced.
>> 
>> I used both of these combinations when we lived in a condo in South FL.
>> With one of my antennas I had it vertical by dropping a Dacron  fishing
>> line from the roof of a 3 story building down to our balcony on the 2nd
>> floor.  I moved it away, sideways from the balcony so as not to attract the
>> attention the upstairs neighbor.  Connected the end of my 20 M dipole and
>> hauled it up such that the feed point was about at the ceiling level of our
>> balcony or the floor level of the upstairs neighbor. The other end made it
>> just about to the ground.  A nice fishing weight attached to the lower end
>> kept thing taught.  I used some #30 Teflon covered wire which was white.
>> Looked more like a spider web and couldn't be seen from 15 ft or so against
>> the white building.  I just tied a knot in the end and attached the
>> Dacron.  The center insulator was a piece of plastic  from a milk jug, and
>> the #30 wire was not stripped but just tied with a couple of 1" or so
>> pigtails.  Strip the ends and attach the coax.  Found some white marine
>> RG58 for the feed line.  It was in place for about 6 years.  No one noticed
>> or said anything.  Worked great.  Fortunately our condo was only 30 units
>> most of which were seasonal occupancy.  Thus empty most of the year.  Only
>> about 12 to 15 full time residents.
>> 
>> Just be creative.   The site I refer to is that of DJ0IP.   He designs
>> antennas for portable operation, back pack operation and such.  Thus small,
>> compact and lightweight.  He also has great information on
>> balunsgood onesand bad ones.Correct applications and
>> incorrect applications.
>> 
>> Yes, digital modes are very conducive to low power and noise conditions.
>> The new FT8 mode which is included in the WSJT-X latest version is fast a

Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Mike Parkes]

Bob,
Thank you very much for sharing all that. I like your dipole approach
there, getting at least one end up in the air at the roof level of that
condo. I could possibly do something like that, slingshot a line to the
rooftop of this apt bldg somehow ... Maybe with some kind of batman grapple
hook thing on the end that can snag on something hi. My big concern here is
how close the power lines are. Anyway. I am still mulling it over and
continue to work with the buddistick (or the metal downspout on this bldg
which tunes up surprisingly well on all bands).

Mostly I am just trying to keep the faith right now that something will
work out here. There is a lot of background noise here...tuning across the
bands I hear one weird "signal" after the other, swooshing in and out as i
tune the bands, which must be the horrid interference thrown out from all
the WiFi routers around here... 60 cycle noise, buzzes, pops, I mean it is
a real cacophony of sounds. There must be all kinds of intermodulation
sorts of interference, the rfi mixing with the kx3's receiver. The NB and
NR of the kx3 actually does a good job knocking a lot of that back. So far
not one contact though. Trying *not* to see my investment as a rather
expensive mini boat anchor.

I think I will buy some China HT and at least get on 2 meters (not sure I
am ready to spend the $260 on a 2 meter module for the kx3 just yet,
although I will probably add it at some point anyway.)

I wish there was some way to at least scare up some local 10 meter (line of
sight) activity here so that I could at determine if this radio is
transmitting okay. Some local HF qso's would be great... But I am not a
part of a local ham club or anything here to try and set up a sked with
anyone. Anyway... I appreciate your thoughts there, I am still trying to
figure out what I really hope to get out of ham radio. So far it is QSOs on
this Elecraft mailing list :) which is a great group here... This band is
always open as long as the internet works. :) 73s, mike.

On Aug 13, 2017 7:18 PM, "Bob McGraw K4TAX"  wrote:

> Mike:
>
> Glad to share my thoughts and experiences.
>
> As to using a dipole, feed it in the center with coax RG-58, RG-8X.  And
> the dipole does not have to be in a straight line.  On the balcony or
> patio, a single center support and droop the ends down in an inverted V
> style.   Or stretch it out as straight as you can between two supports  and
> droop the ends if it is longer than the two supports are spaced.
>
> I used both of these combinations when we lived in a condo in South FL.
> With one of my antennas I had it vertical by dropping a Dacron  fishing
> line from the roof of a 3 story building down to our balcony on the 2nd
> floor.  I moved it away, sideways from the balcony so as not to attract the
> attention the upstairs neighbor.  Connected the end of my 20 M dipole and
> hauled it up such that the feed point was about at the ceiling level of our
> balcony or the floor level of the upstairs neighbor. The other end made it
> just about to the ground.  A nice fishing weight attached to the lower end
> kept thing taught.  I used some #30 Teflon covered wire which was white.
> Looked more like a spider web and couldn't be seen from 15 ft or so against
> the white building.  I just tied a knot in the end and attached the
> Dacron.  The center insulator was a piece of plastic  from a milk jug, and
> the #30 wire was not stripped but just tied with a couple of 1" or so
> pigtails.  Strip the ends and attach the coax.  Found some white marine
> RG58 for the feed line.  It was in place for about 6 years.  No one noticed
> or said anything.  Worked great.  Fortunately our condo was only 30 units
> most of which were seasonal occupancy.  Thus empty most of the year.  Only
> about 12 to 15 full time residents.
>
> Just be creative.   The site I refer to is that of DJ0IP.   He designs
> antennas for portable operation, back pack operation and such.  Thus small,
> compact and lightweight.  He also has great information on
> balunsgood onesand bad ones.Correct applications and
> incorrect applications.
>
> Yes, digital modes are very conducive to low power and noise conditions.
> The new FT8 mode which is included in the WSJT-X latest version is fast and
> good.   Not a rag chew mode by any means, but one can make contacts with
> the simple exchange of calls, grid squares, signal reports, 73 and log
> it.   Lots of activity on that mode.  Much faster, actually 4 times,  than
> JT-65 which is more like watching paint dry.   I've been active on 6M the
> past 2 weeks on FT-8 mode  and this weekend with the Perseid meteor shower
> using MSK144.
>
> If you are trying to work the lower frequencies, below 7 MHz, you will
> really need a much larger antenna.  Not saying it can't be done but more
> antenna and more power is generally required.For a while I use my
> mobile HF Hustler antenna and a pair of vice grip pliers to clamp the
> insulated base to

Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Mel Farrer via Elecraft]

I prefer to use the end fed wire in an inverted "L" configuration with the 
vertical leg running down a FG pole to the radio.
Mel, K6KBE

  From: Barthold Lichtenbelt via Elecraft 
 To: 'Walter Underwood' ; 'Reflector Elecraft' 
 
 Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 7:28 AM
 Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?
   
Walter,

This was a super informative writeup, thank you! 

I have one question for you. If you throw a 26-29 foot wire in a tree, but it 
is impractical to sit right at the end of the wire (too many branches in the 
way, or whatever) to operate, how would you extend it? For example, operate 
from a table 20 feet away.

Thanks!
Barthold
AD0RM

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Walter Underwood
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 10:10 AM
To: Reflector Elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

In July, five SOTA operators put up seven different antennas on a summit and 
compared their performance with WSPR. Six of the antennas were mostly within 3 
dB of each other. The EARCHI antenna (end-fed with transformer) was  between 6 
and 15 dB worse than the others. So in one experiment, the 9:1 transformer did 
not help.

http://reflector.sota.org.uk/t/seven-sota-antennas-compared-using-wspr-on-a-summit/15635
 
<http://reflector.sota.org.uk/t/seven-sota-antennas-compared-using-wspr-on-a-summit/15635>

When the antenna is connected directly to the KX3, there is no transmission 
line, so there is no need to match the antenna to the transmission line. It is 
putting the ATU at the feed point of the antenna.

The 26-29 foot length is chosen to avoid very high or very low impedances in 
the ham bands down to 40 m Especially, it is not a 1/2 wave on any band. That 
makes it easier to match. If you want to work 80 m, use a 53 foot wire.

The 16 foot wire on the ground is a radial “system”. One radial is a lot better 
than none, but you could use more. The length isn’t especially important 
because it is capacitively coupled to the ground. Ground resistance swamps any 
resonance.

I first heard about this antenna on this list. It was recommended by Wayne, 
N6KR. It is documented on page 9 of the instructions for the KXAT1 antenna 
tuner, “...for backpacking use on 40/30/20 meters, a wire length of 24-28 feet 
will generally provide good results. […] Ground system: Use a at least one 
ground radial, cut to at least 1/8th wavelength on the lowest band used (16' on 
40 meters). When possible, use two or more radials, with one cut to 1/4 
wavelength on each band."

http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740054%20KXAT1%20man%20rev%20B.pdf 
<http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740054%20KXAT1%20man%20rev%20B.pdf>

There is similar advice on page 10 of the KX2 manual.

http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740282%20KX2%20owner%27s%20man.pdf 
<http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740282%20KX2%20owner's%20man.pdf>

Finally, stop trying to think about “balanced” and “unbalanced” because those 
words are used in bizarre, inconsistent ways. Voltage, whether DC or RF, is 
always between two terminals. With a center-fed dipole, the two terminals are 
the elements. With this setup, the two terminals are the wire in the air and 
the wire on the ground.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Aug 13, 2017, at 5:31 AM, rich hurd WC3T  wrote:
> 
> Hi all, particularly Walter (since he mentioned it):
> 
> I've been bedeviled by a question with multiple possible answers. 
> 
> I'm a fan of the idea of using a field antenna as Walter describes by using a 
> BNC - to binding post connector directly to the radio.  
> 
> I'm leery of that because it flies in the face of what I've been told about 
> these antennas:  I'm assuming the radio BNC connection is unbalanced and the 
> wires form a balanced antenna, more or less.  I've seen deployments with 
> end-fed 9:1 baluns and without, even documented on YouTube with great 
> successes. 
> 
> I can tell you that the 9:1 balun setup doesn't seem to be working for my 
> current field deployment but I'd sure like to understand why a balun isn't 
> recommended in this setup.  I'd love to just take the wire and put it on my 
> WonderPole and go for it, but I'd like the understanding first.    Why does 
> this work?  :)
> 
> Thanks. 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 13:19 Walter Underwood  <mailto:wun...@wunderwood.org>> wrote:
> You can get a quick look at band conditions at 
> http://bandconditions.com <http://bandconditions.com/> 
> <http://bandconditions.com/ <http://bandconditions.com/>>
> 
> Using Buddistick on 40 m is a real challenge. I would not be surprised if 
> that was an S-

Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Barthold Lichtenbelt via Elecraft]

Walter,

This was a super informative writeup, thank you! 

I have one question for you. If you throw a 26-29 foot wire in a tree, but it 
is impractical to sit right at the end of the wire (too many branches in the 
way, or whatever) to operate, how would you extend it? For example, operate 
from a table 20 feet away.

Thanks!
Barthold
AD0RM

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net 
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Walter Underwood
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 10:10 AM
To: Reflector Elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

In July, five SOTA operators put up seven different antennas on a summit and 
compared their performance with WSPR. Six of the antennas were mostly within 3 
dB of each other. The EARCHI antenna (end-fed with transformer) was  between 6 
and 15 dB worse than the others. So in one experiment, the 9:1 transformer did 
not help.

http://reflector.sota.org.uk/t/seven-sota-antennas-compared-using-wspr-on-a-summit/15635
 
<http://reflector.sota.org.uk/t/seven-sota-antennas-compared-using-wspr-on-a-summit/15635>

When the antenna is connected directly to the KX3, there is no transmission 
line, so there is no need to match the antenna to the transmission line. It is 
putting the ATU at the feed point of the antenna.

The 26-29 foot length is chosen to avoid very high or very low impedances in 
the ham bands down to 40 m Especially, it is not a 1/2 wave on any band. That 
makes it easier to match. If you want to work 80 m, use a 53 foot wire.

The 16 foot wire on the ground is a radial “system”. One radial is a lot better 
than none, but you could use more. The length isn’t especially important 
because it is capacitively coupled to the ground. Ground resistance swamps any 
resonance.

I first heard about this antenna on this list. It was recommended by Wayne, 
N6KR. It is documented on page 9 of the instructions for the KXAT1 antenna 
tuner, “...for backpacking use on 40/30/20 meters, a wire length of 24-28 feet 
will generally provide good results. […] Ground system: Use a at least one 
ground radial, cut to at least 1/8th wavelength on the lowest band used (16' on 
40 meters). When possible, use two or more radials, with one cut to 1/4 
wavelength on each band."

http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740054%20KXAT1%20man%20rev%20B.pdf 
<http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740054%20KXAT1%20man%20rev%20B.pdf>

There is similar advice on page 10 of the KX2 manual.

http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740282%20KX2%20owner%27s%20man.pdf 
<http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740282%20KX2%20owner's%20man.pdf>

Finally, stop trying to think about “balanced” and “unbalanced” because those 
words are used in bizarre, inconsistent ways. Voltage, whether DC or RF, is 
always between two terminals. With a center-fed dipole, the two terminals are 
the elements. With this setup, the two terminals are the wire in the air and 
the wire on the ground.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Aug 13, 2017, at 5:31 AM, rich hurd WC3T  wrote:
> 
> Hi all, particularly Walter (since he mentioned it):
> 
> I've been bedeviled by a question with multiple possible answers. 
> 
> I'm a fan of the idea of using a field antenna as Walter describes by using a 
> BNC - to binding post connector directly to the radio.  
> 
> I'm leery of that because it flies in the face of what I've been told about 
> these antennas:  I'm assuming the radio BNC connection is unbalanced and the 
> wires form a balanced antenna, more or less.  I've seen deployments with 
> end-fed 9:1 baluns and without, even documented on YouTube with great 
> successes. 
> 
> I can tell you that the 9:1 balun setup doesn't seem to be working for my 
> current field deployment but I'd sure like to understand why a balun isn't 
> recommended in this setup.  I'd love to just take the wire and put it on my 
> WonderPole and go for it, but I'd like the understanding first.Why does 
> this work?   :)
> 
> Thanks. 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 13:19 Walter Underwood  <mailto:wun...@wunderwood.org>> wrote:
> You can get a quick look at band conditions at 
> http://bandconditions.com <http://bandconditions.com/> 
> <http://bandconditions.com/ <http://bandconditions.com/>>
> 
> Using Buddistick on 40 m is a real challenge. I would not be surprised if 
> that was an S-unit or more below a full-size dipole.
> 
> Try the simplest field antenna for the KX3, two wires connected directly to 
> the rig. Get a BNC to double binding post adaptor. Get a wire 26 to 29 feet 
> long, throw it in a tree and hook one end to the red post. Get a 16 foot 
> wire, lay it on the ground and connect it to the black post. Let the ATU tune 
> it

Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT]

If you are end-feeding a wire, and it's near a half-wave on the band 
you're operating (let's say 32 3/4 feet, and 14.300 MHz) an end-fed wire 
is going to be close to infinite impedance, and you need some kind of 
Un-Un (9:1 being common) to step up from 50 ohms or thereabouts.


If you're trying to operate on the same frequency, and the wire is more 
like 48 feet, the impedance will be a whole lot lower and no transformer 
is indicated.


This is the myth of the "random" wire, and why one "random" wire works 
like gangbusters, and the next "random" wire is kinda lousy.


Antenna theory matters.

73 -- Lynn

On 8/13/2017 9:09 AM, Walter Underwood wrote:

In July, five SOTA operators put up seven different antennas on a summit and 
compared their performance with WSPR. Six of the antennas were mostly within 3 
dB of each other. The EARCHI antenna (end-fed with transformer) was  between 6 
and 15 dB worse than the others. So in one experiment, the 9:1 transformer did 
not help.

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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Phil Kane]

On 8/13/2017 10:28 AM, Ken G Kopp wrote:

> The antenna Jim's is referring to (below) is ... I believe ... better
> known as a "T2FD".  In a case of conning the unknowing B & W ... and
> maybe even themselves ... sold hundreds of them to the Army National
> Guard.  You see them hanging above every armory here in MT.

It's the "standard" Federal agency antenna as well.

I had one at my former house.  It worked far better than what I am
limited to now at a rental apartment - a 30-foot wire fed by an "un-un"
. That was much better than its predecessor there which was no antenna
at all - and the price was right (surplus gift from someone who was
moving away).

I sure miss my R-8 vertical..

73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Vic Rosenthal]

It's not a "con." It is a trade off that provides wide frequency coverage with 
a simple, sturdy antenna in return for a few dB of loss. Quite reasonable if 
you are the National Guard.

Vic 4X6GP 

> On 13 Aug 2017, at 20:28, Ken G Kopp  wrote:
> 
> The antenna Jim's is referring to (below) is ... I believe ... better known
> as
> a "T2FD".  In a case of conning the unknowing B & W ... and maybe even
> themselves ... sold hundreds of them to the Army National Guard.  You see
> them hanging above every armory here in MT.
> 
> 
>> Yes, but as noted above, not in a good way. :)   There's a folded dipole
>>> antenna made with a big resistor in the middle of it, the effect of which
>>> is to "broadband" it by "swamping" the resonance, AND to burn half of the
>>> transmitter power. In other words, the transmitter puts power into the
>>> antenna, but half of it is wasted in that resistor.
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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Sometimes convenience is more important than 3 dB of power. That is the case
for many installations, including those T2FDs on National Guard armories. 

After all, EVERY antenna is a compromise of some sort. For example, consider
the unidirectional Rhombic antenna, a staple of major commercial
point-to-point stations since Marconi's day strung among a large field of
telephone poles.

A Rhombic is basically bi-directional with two main lobes 180 degrees apart
in azimuth. But a resistor is added to make it unidirectional by absorbing
half of the transmitter power that would normally be radiated in the "wrong"
direction. 

73, Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ken G Kopp
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2017 10:28 AM
To: j...@audiosystemsgroup.com
Cc: Elecraft
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

The antenna Jim's is referring to (below) is ... I believe ... better known
as a "T2FD".  In a case of conning the unknowing B & W ... and maybe even
themselves ... sold hundreds of them to the Army National Guard.  You see
them hanging above every armory here in MT.

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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Jim Brown]

On 8/13/2017 10:32 AM, Walter Underwood wrote:

Without the wire on the ground, the chassis is the other terminal, like your 
BC-459 (previous message), but also includes your body when you touch it, which 
changes the impedance of the antenna system.


Yep. But in a vehicle, the VEHICLE'S chassis is the return. That's how 
mobile antennas work. And at home, an end fed wire with no radials uses 
the power system in your house as the counterpoise. While this can work, 
it also puts RF in your house and picks up noise from your house. And 
our body is the return for the antenna of our VHF/UHF talkie.


On 8/13/2017 10:22 AM, Barry wrote:

Jim,
You got it. That is why my first recommendation is for ground 
independent antennas. For portable use, any antenna that can be hung 
by a single support should work nicely so long as it approximates 1/2 
wave on the lowest frequency. 


There's a gotcha there. It's quasi-ground-independent ONLY when there's 
a current minima at the feedpoint, and it isn't easy to make a single 
wire do that on all bands where we want to operate, because some are not 
harmonically related, and because a half wave is pretty long on 80 and 
40M. :)  And when it's an end fed full wave or 3/2 wave, the resulting 
pattern is pretty loby. But it is certainly true that when we CAN rig 
and load an end-fed half-wave, it's a pretty efficient antenna, 
especially if it's vertical.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Jim Brown]

Typo on my part -- I meant to write UNBALANCED. :)

Thanks for catching it!

Jim

On 8/13/2017 10:22 AM, Bill Breeden wrote:

im,

All of the transmitters at my place, a K3, a Yaesu FT817 and FT-920, 
and a Drake T-4XB, have "single ended" (unbalanced) outputs.


73,

Bill - NA5DX


On 8/13/2017 11:52 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

Great advice!

With one exception, every transmitter and receiver I've ever seen has 
had an balanced output 



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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Walter Underwood]

I should have just said “coupled”.

Without the wire on the ground, the chassis is the other terminal, like your 
BC-459 (previous message), but also includes your body when you touch it, which 
changes the impedance of the antenna system. The wire is important to stabilize 
the impedance. It is also more efficient than having zero radials.

There are more efficient field antennas, but this setup weighs four ounces, 
including the midi-winders from SOTAbeams. Those are about the same size as the 
KX3, so they pack nicely. Last time I was on a summit, I was on the air five 
minutes after choosing a log to sit on.

http://www.sotabeams.co.uk/midi-winders/

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Aug 13, 2017, at 10:10 AM, Jim Brown  wrote:
> 
> On 8/13/2017 9:09 AM, Walter Underwood wrote:
>> The 16 foot wire on the ground is a radial “system”. One radial is a lot 
>> better than none, but you could use more. The length isn’t especially 
>> important
> 
> Right.
> 
>> because it is capacitively coupled to the ground.
> 
> It's also inductively coupled. BUT -- that's NOT how or why radials work. AND 
> a connection or coupling to earth does NOT make a transmitting antenna work 
> better. That's because the earth is a big resistor, so it burns any power fed 
> into it, whether with a direct connection or by capacitive or inductive 
> coupling. In other words, it WASTES transmitter power.
> 
>> Ground resistance swamps any resonance.
> 
> Yes, but as noted above, not in a good way. :)   There's a folded dipole 
> antenna made with a big resistor in the middle of it, the effect of which is 
> to "broadband" it by "swamping" the resonance, AND to burn half of the 
> transmitter power. In other words, the transmitter puts power into the 
> antenna, but half of it is wasted in that resistor.
> 
> 73, Jim K9YC
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Ken G Kopp]

The antenna Jim's is referring to (below) is ... I believe ... better known
as
a "T2FD".  In a case of conning the unknowing B & W ... and maybe even
themselves ... sold hundreds of them to the Army National Guard.  You see
them hanging above every armory here in MT.


> Yes, but as noted above, not in a good way. :)   There's a folded dipole
>> antenna made with a big resistor in the middle of it, the effect of which
>> is to "broadband" it by "swamping" the resonance, AND to burn half of the
>> transmitter power. In other words, the transmitter puts power into the
>> antenna, but half of it is wasted in that resistor.
>>
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Barry]

Jim,
You got it. That is why my first recommendation is for ground 
independent antennas. For portable use, any antenna that can be hung by 
a single support should work nicely so long as it approximates 1/2 wave 
on the lowest frequency. An inverted V with it's center up a tree fed in 
the center with ladder line from a small current balun will work nicely, 
and it could even be sloping if the center can't be high enough. I have 
found sloping delta loops work nicely when fed with ladder line and a 
4:1 balun. DO NOT worry about matching. If you are reading this, you 
probably have Elecraft gear. That means you really need a truly awful 
mismatch for your tuner not to be able to deal with it.


73,
Barry
K3NDM

-- Original Message --
From: "Jim Brown" 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: 8/13/2017 1:10:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?


On 8/13/2017 9:09 AM, Walter Underwood wrote:
The 16 foot wire on the ground is a radial “system”. One radial is a 
lot better than none, but you could use more. The length isn’t 
especially important


Right.


because it is capacitively coupled to the ground.


It's also inductively coupled. BUT -- that's NOT how or why radials 
work. AND a connection or coupling to earth does NOT make a 
transmitting antenna work better. That's because the earth is a big 
resistor, so it burns any power fed into it, whether with a direct 
connection or by capacitive or inductive coupling. In other words, it 
WASTES transmitter power.



Ground resistance swamps any resonance.


Yes, but as noted above, not in a good way. :)   There's a folded 
dipole antenna made with a big resistor in the middle of it, the effect 
of which is to "broadband" it by "swamping" the resonance, AND to burn 
half of the transmitter power. In other words, the transmitter puts 
power into the antenna, but half of it is wasted in that resistor.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Bill Breeden]

Jim,

All of the transmitters at my place, a K3, a Yaesu FT817 and FT-920, and 
a Drake T-4XB, have "single ended" (unbalanced) outputs.


73,

Bill - NA5DX


On 8/13/2017 11:52 AM, Jim Brown wrote:

Great advice!

With one exception, every transmitter and receiver I've ever seen has 
had an balanced output -- that is, a coaxial connector of some sort. 
Current flows in loops -- the center conductor feeds one side of the 
loop, the chassis feeds the other.  The exception was my very first 
transmitter, a military surplus BC-459, which had a single terminal 
fed from the output of an internal matching network. The return for 
output current was the chassis, which was mounted to the chassis of 
the military vehicle or aircraft in which it was used, and the chassis 
of that vehicle or aircraft acted as the other half of the antenna.


The suggestion to use a BNC to female "dual Banana" adapter is a very 
good one. I've used one for exactly this purpose with my K2 and KX3 
when operating portable. It makes a very easy way to connect wire 
antennas.


73, Jim K9YC

On 8/13/2017 5:43 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
Forget about "what you've been told".   Do your own research using 
various publications such as ARRL Antenna Book or other like 
publications.   Personally in the "I've been told" area, it seems 
hams have more incomplete and inaccurate information than correct and 
complete information.


Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone


On Aug 13, 2017, at 7:31 AM, rich hurd WC3T  wrote:

Hi all, particularly Walter (since he mentioned it):

I've been bedeviled by a question with multiple possible answers.

I'm a fan of the idea of using a field antenna as Walter describes 
by using

a BNC - to binding post connector directly to the radio.

I'm leery of that because it flies in the face of what I've been 
told about
these antennas:  I'm assuming the radio BNC connection is unbalanced 
and

the wires form a balanced antenna, more or less.  I've seen deployments
with end-fed 9:1 baluns and without, even documented on YouTube with 
great

successes.

I can tell you that the 9:1 balun setup doesn't seem to be working 
for my
current field deployment but I'd sure like to understand why a balun 
isn't
recommended in this setup.  I'd love to just take the wire and put 
it on my
WonderPole and go for it, but I'd like the understanding first.
Why does

this work?   :)

Thanks.

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 13:19 Walter Underwood 
wrote:

You can get a quick look at band conditions at 
http://bandconditions.com <

http://bandconditions.com/>

Using Buddistick on 40 m is a real challenge. I would not be 
surprised if

that was an S-unit or more below a full-size dipole.

Try the simplest field antenna for the KX3, two wires connected 
directly
to the rig. Get a BNC to double binding post adaptor. Get a wire 26 
to 29
feet long, throw it in a tree and hook one end to the red post. Get 
a 16
foot wire, lay it on the ground and connect it to the black post. 
Let the

ATU tune it and see you can hear.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)


On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:54 AM, Tommy  wrote:

The band has been really crappy lately. Keep tuning around and 
listening.


73!

Tom - KB2SMS




On 08/11/2017 12:33 PM, Mike Parkes wrote:
Okay I am reaching our to the Elecraft enthusiasts here for some

feedback

if anyone cares to chime in.
I am just getting back on the air after years away from the 
hobby, so I

am

not that familiar with band conditions in general. It looks like the
sunspot cycle is heading for the cellar (if it isn't already there).

Recently bought a KX3 and a Buddistick vertical (like, 2 weeks ago).

Love

the KX3 it is a great radio... however... so far my efforts to hear

much of
anything, much less make a contact with someone, has been 
frustrating to
say the least. I live in an apartment and am surrounded by power 
lines

for
one thing. The background noise level on 40 is pretty bad varies 
but is

s7-9 mostly. I  took my setup to a nearby park and the bands were
definitely quieter. So the local manmade noise level is an issue 
(and

one
reason I chose the KX3 was the hope that its rcvr and filtering 
could

help

with that.)

Have yet to make a single contact, so I am just wondering if I just
happened to choose a really lousy period of solar conditions for 
HF? Or

is

the base loaded vertical a joke?

I would love to be able to find another ham even close by just to 
try

and
get some sort of an HF QSO even if it is with someone down the 
block.
...I can tune down to the AM broadcast band and was able to hear 
some

local

AM stations. :)

Mike AB7RU

(On a side note the tuner in the KX3 is great!. That thing was 
able to

get
a match for 80 meters on the Buddistick which was showing 
something like

25:1 swr. The KX3 tuner clicked and rattled for a while and found a

match
to <2:1. Not sure how much actual RF is going out, probably not 
much...

but

I was amazed it could tun

Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Jim Brown]

On 8/13/2017 9:09 AM, Walter Underwood wrote:

The 16 foot wire on the ground is a radial “system”. One radial is a lot better 
than none, but you could use more. The length isn’t especially important


Right.


because it is capacitively coupled to the ground.


It's also inductively coupled. BUT -- that's NOT how or why radials 
work. AND a connection or coupling to earth does NOT make a transmitting 
antenna work better. That's because the earth is a big resistor, so it 
burns any power fed into it, whether with a direct connection or by 
capacitive or inductive coupling. In other words, it WASTES transmitter 
power.



Ground resistance swamps any resonance.


Yes, but as noted above, not in a good way. :)   There's a folded dipole 
antenna made with a big resistor in the middle of it, the effect of 
which is to "broadband" it by "swamping" the resonance, AND to burn half 
of the transmitter power. In other words, the transmitter puts power 
into the antenna, but half of it is wasted in that resistor.


73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Jim Brown]

Great advice!

With one exception, every transmitter and receiver I've ever seen has 
had an balanced output -- that is, a coaxial connector of some sort. 
Current flows in loops -- the center conductor feeds one side of the 
loop, the chassis feeds the other.  The exception was my very first 
transmitter, a military surplus BC-459, which had a single terminal fed 
from the output of an internal matching network. The return for output 
current was the chassis, which was mounted to the chassis of the 
military vehicle or aircraft in which it was used, and the chassis of 
that vehicle or aircraft acted as the other half of the antenna.


The suggestion to use a BNC to female "dual Banana" adapter is a very 
good one. I've used one for exactly this purpose with my K2 and KX3 when 
operating portable. It makes a very easy way to connect wire antennas.


73, Jim K9YC

On 8/13/2017 5:43 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

Forget about "what you've been told".   Do your own research using various publications 
such as ARRL Antenna Book or other like publications.   Personally in the "I've been 
told" area, it seems hams have more incomplete and inaccurate information than correct and 
complete information.

Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone


On Aug 13, 2017, at 7:31 AM, rich hurd WC3T  wrote:

Hi all, particularly Walter (since he mentioned it):

I've been bedeviled by a question with multiple possible answers.

I'm a fan of the idea of using a field antenna as Walter describes by using
a BNC - to binding post connector directly to the radio.

I'm leery of that because it flies in the face of what I've been told about
these antennas:  I'm assuming the radio BNC connection is unbalanced and
the wires form a balanced antenna, more or less.  I've seen deployments
with end-fed 9:1 baluns and without, even documented on YouTube with great
successes.

I can tell you that the 9:1 balun setup doesn't seem to be working for my
current field deployment but I'd sure like to understand why a balun isn't
recommended in this setup.  I'd love to just take the wire and put it on my
WonderPole and go for it, but I'd like the understanding first.Why does
this work?   :)

Thanks.

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 13:19 Walter Underwood 
wrote:


You can get a quick look at band conditions at http://bandconditions.com <
http://bandconditions.com/>

Using Buddistick on 40 m is a real challenge. I would not be surprised if
that was an S-unit or more below a full-size dipole.

Try the simplest field antenna for the KX3, two wires connected directly
to the rig. Get a BNC to double binding post adaptor. Get a wire 26 to 29
feet long, throw it in a tree and hook one end to the red post. Get a 16
foot wire, lay it on the ground and connect it to the black post. Let the
ATU tune it and see you can hear.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)


On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:54 AM, Tommy  wrote:

The band has been really crappy lately. Keep tuning around and listening.

73!

Tom - KB2SMS




On 08/11/2017 12:33 PM, Mike Parkes wrote:
Okay I am reaching our to the Elecraft enthusiasts here for some

feedback

if anyone cares to chime in.
I am just getting back on the air after years away from the hobby, so I

am

not that familiar with band conditions in general. It looks like the
sunspot cycle is heading for the cellar (if it isn't already there).

Recently bought a KX3 and a Buddistick vertical (like, 2 weeks ago).

Love

the KX3 it is a great radio... however... so far my efforts to hear

much of

anything, much less make a contact with someone, has been frustrating to
say the least. I live in an apartment and am surrounded by power lines

for

one thing. The background noise level on 40 is pretty bad varies but is
s7-9 mostly. I  took my setup to a nearby park and the bands were
definitely quieter. So the local manmade noise level is an issue (and

one

reason I chose the KX3 was the hope that its rcvr and filtering could

help

with that.)

Have yet to make a single contact, so I am just wondering if I just
happened to choose a really lousy period of solar conditions for HF? Or

is

the base loaded vertical a joke?

I would love to be able to find another ham even close by just to try

and

get some sort of an HF QSO even if it is with someone down the block.
...I can tune down to the AM broadcast band and was able to hear some

local

AM stations. :)

Mike AB7RU

(On a side note the tuner in the KX3 is great!. That thing was able to

get

a match for 80 meters on the Buddistick which was showing something like
25:1 swr. The KX3 tuner clicked and rattled for a while and found a

match

to <2:1. Not sure how much actual RF is going out, probably not much...

but

I was amazed it could tune to that high an SWR.)
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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[rich hurd WC3T]

"When the antenna is connected directly to the KX3, there is no
transmission line, so there is no need to match the antenna to the
transmission line. It is putting the ATU at the feed point of the antenna."

Ah.  I see now. Light dawns on the Rockies.  :)

Thanks for the clarification!

On Sun, Aug 13, 2017 at 12:09 Walter Underwood 
wrote:

> In July, five SOTA operators put up seven different antennas on a summit
> and compared their performance with WSPR. Six of the antennas were mostly
> within 3 dB of each other. The EARCHI antenna (end-fed with transformer)
> was  between 6 and 15 dB worse than the others. So in one experiment, the
> 9:1 transformer did not help.
>
>
> http://reflector.sota.org.uk/t/seven-sota-antennas-compared-using-wspr-on-a-summit/15635
> <
> http://reflector.sota.org.uk/t/seven-sota-antennas-compared-using-wspr-on-a-summit/15635
> >
>
> When the antenna is connected directly to the KX3, there is no
> transmission line, so there is no need to match the antenna to the
> transmission line. It is putting the ATU at the feed point of the antenna.
>
> The 26-29 foot length is chosen to avoid very high or very low impedances
> in the ham bands down to 40 m Especially, it is not a 1/2 wave on any band.
> That makes it easier to match. If you want to work 80 m, use a 53 foot wire.
>
> The 16 foot wire on the ground is a radial “system”. One radial is a lot
> better than none, but you could use more. The length isn’t especially
> important because it is capacitively coupled to the ground. Ground
> resistance swamps any resonance.
>
> I first heard about this antenna on this list. It was recommended by
> Wayne, N6KR. It is documented on page 9 of the instructions for the KXAT1
> antenna tuner, “...for backpacking use on 40/30/20 meters, a wire length of
> 24-28 feet will generally provide good results. […] Ground system: Use a at
> least one ground radial, cut to at least 1/8th wavelength on the lowest
> band used (16' on 40 meters). When possible, use two or more radials, with
> one cut to 1/4 wavelength on each band."
>
> http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740054%20KXAT1%20man%20rev%20B.pdf <
> http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740054%20KXAT1%20man%20rev%20B.pdf>
>
> There is similar advice on page 10 of the KX2 manual.
>
> http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740282%20KX2%20owner%27s%20man.pdf <
> http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740282%20KX2%20owner's%20man.pdf>
>
> Finally, stop trying to think about “balanced” and “unbalanced” because
> those words are used in bizarre, inconsistent ways. Voltage, whether DC or
> RF, is always between two terminals. With a center-fed dipole, the two
> terminals are the elements. With this setup, the two terminals are the wire
> in the air and the wire on the ground.
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>
> > On Aug 13, 2017, at 5:31 AM, rich hurd WC3T  wrote:
> >
> > Hi all, particularly Walter (since he mentioned it):
> >
> > I've been bedeviled by a question with multiple possible answers.
> >
> > I'm a fan of the idea of using a field antenna as Walter describes by
> using a BNC - to binding post connector directly to the radio.
> >
> > I'm leery of that because it flies in the face of what I've been told
> about these antennas:  I'm assuming the radio BNC connection is unbalanced
> and the wires form a balanced antenna, more or less.  I've seen deployments
> with end-fed 9:1 baluns and without, even documented on YouTube with great
> successes.
> >
> > I can tell you that the 9:1 balun setup doesn't seem to be working for
> my current field deployment but I'd sure like to understand why a balun
> isn't recommended in this setup.  I'd love to just take the wire and put it
> on my WonderPole and go for it, but I'd like the understanding first.
> Why does this work?   :)
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 13:19 Walter Underwood  > wrote:
> > You can get a quick look at band conditions at http://bandconditions.com
>   http://bandconditions.com/>>
> >
> > Using Buddistick on 40 m is a real challenge. I would not be surprised
> if that was an S-unit or more below a full-size dipole.
> >
> > Try the simplest field antenna for the KX3, two wires connected directly
> to the rig. Get a BNC to double binding post adaptor. Get a wire 26 to 29
> feet long, throw it in a tree and hook one end to the red post. Get a 16
> foot wire, lay it on the ground and connect it to the black post. Let the
> ATU tune it and see you can hear.
> >
> > wunder
> > K6WRU
> > Walter Underwood
> > CM87wj
> > http://observer.wunderwood.org/  (my
> blog)
> >
> > > On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:54 AM, Tommy  tomm...@hvc.rr.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > > The band has been really crappy lately. Keep tuning around and
> listening.
> > >
> > > 73!
> > >
> > > Tom - KB2SMS
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 08/11/2017 12:33 PM, Mike Park

Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Barry]

Fred,
I think you've hit on the real major issues. I always state an 
antennas performance can not be measured by SWR alone, and that there is 
no one perfect antenna. I suggest that these are just a few areas that a 
ham really need to worry/think about; can he make his radio accept the 
load, is his line loss at least close to rational, does he want to work 
local stations meaning out to a few hundred miles, or does he want to go 
for a 5BDXCC. All of the rest of it are just a good discussion topics, 
taken one at a time.


For my part, I run two antennas on my urban lot, a center fed 80 
meter inverted L and a vertical 20 meter center fed dipole. I use the L 
for 80-30 meters and the vertical dipole for all else. I haven't a clue 
what the SWR is, but my built in tuner deals with it nicely. All on my 
feed line are ladder line connected via a Balun Designs current balun. 
I'm serious about finishing my 5BDXCC, and all I need is to finish up on 
80. What I'm saying is I have found it does not take an elaborate 
antenna farm to really reach out and touch someone.


My recommendations are to use a ground independent antenna if you 
can and feed it with the lowest loss line that makes sense for your 
situation. All the rest is seat in the chair time and listen or call CQ.


73,
Barry
K3NDM



-- Original Message --
From: "Fred Moore" 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: 8/13/2017 10:37:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?


There has been a happening in the last 15 or so years.  It seems that
every antenna is "the best we have ever had"  this statement is 
directly

proportional to the number of people who study theory to those who just
read others comments on the internet. Or as some say, the SWR is 1:1 so
its a great antenna.  BTW I love my dummy load for EXACTLY that reason.

I can clearly say that I have had enough different antenna's over the
last 35 years that I know what is a good antenna and one that is not..
plus I even understand most of the theory.  Today a new ham dumps
125-150 bucks in to a 5 dollar pre-manufactured wire antenna, and says,
this is the best antenna around even if he has never used any other
antenna.  See how good it works I even have an S9 noise floor, no other
antenna is this sensitive, when all the wile he is running 30db of
preamp he does not need.

Simply amazes me..  that some think they even have enough education or
experience to even have a meaning full opinion..  but away they go on
eham or qrz about how good something is.  Lucky most on Elecraft don't
all into this category.

We do have many good radio related sites out there, examples are those
who show current band conditions, low power reporting sites to check
your own propagation etc..  those we should learn to use as they are
meaningful but don't assume the to be 100% all of the time,

I remember many years ago when I was elmering a new ham, he built a 15
meter beam, when he decided after one week that the 40/15 dipole I 
built

for him was just not working, I loaned him a HW16, he complained for
weeks that the something was wrong, I went over one Saturday to see 
what

actually was wrong, a spin across the band showed no signals, one CQ
with 50 watts and from Ohio I was the pileup of European stations, I
worked about 5 contacts, looked at him, and said,  "So what is wrong",
he says.. "what knob did you turn when I wasn't looking"  did you ever
call CQ "no says he"  "I think you need to actually use the radio 
before

you decide something is wrong" says I.

If the band propagation sites say the band is dead, and your radio is
not hearing anything, most likely it is not your radio or your antenna.
If you are hearing S9 noise and unhook the antenna and it goes away, I
will make you a bet that your radio is not broken..

And yes all of the switching supplies didn't exist 20 years ago, so we
need to do things we didn't have to do before with toroids and other
things that we didn't do before, there is even some noise sources we
can't fix as others are legally generating it.  Me thinks the days of a
usable -127db noise floor are few and far between, thanks mostly to 
what

our government is allowing to happen...

FWIW/WYP.. regards.. Fred

Fred Moore
email: f...@fmeco.com
wd8...@gmail.com
phone: 321-217-8699

On 8/13/17 8:43 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
Forget about "what you've been told".   Do your own research using 
various publications such as ARRL Antenna Book or other like 
publications.   Personally in the "I've been told" area, it seems hams 
have more incomplete and inaccurate information than correct and 
complete information.


Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone


On Aug 13, 2017, at 7:31 AM, rich hurd WC3T  wrote:

Hi all, particularly Walter (since he mentioned it):

I've been bedeviled by 

Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Walter Underwood]

In July, five SOTA operators put up seven different antennas on a summit and 
compared their performance with WSPR. Six of the antennas were mostly within 3 
dB of each other. The EARCHI antenna (end-fed with transformer) was  between 6 
and 15 dB worse than the others. So in one experiment, the 9:1 transformer did 
not help.

http://reflector.sota.org.uk/t/seven-sota-antennas-compared-using-wspr-on-a-summit/15635
 


When the antenna is connected directly to the KX3, there is no transmission 
line, so there is no need to match the antenna to the transmission line. It is 
putting the ATU at the feed point of the antenna.

The 26-29 foot length is chosen to avoid very high or very low impedances in 
the ham bands down to 40 m Especially, it is not a 1/2 wave on any band. That 
makes it easier to match. If you want to work 80 m, use a 53 foot wire.

The 16 foot wire on the ground is a radial “system”. One radial is a lot better 
than none, but you could use more. The length isn’t especially important 
because it is capacitively coupled to the ground. Ground resistance swamps any 
resonance.

I first heard about this antenna on this list. It was recommended by Wayne, 
N6KR. It is documented on page 9 of the instructions for the KXAT1 antenna 
tuner, “...for backpacking use on 40/30/20 meters, a wire length of 24-28 feet 
will generally provide good results. […] Ground system: Use a at least one 
ground radial, cut to at least 1/8th wavelength on the lowest band used (16' on 
40 meters). When possible, use two or more radials, with one cut to 1/4 
wavelength on each band."

http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740054%20KXAT1%20man%20rev%20B.pdf 


There is similar advice on page 10 of the KX2 manual.

http://www.elecraft.com/manual/E740282%20KX2%20owner%27s%20man.pdf 


Finally, stop trying to think about “balanced” and “unbalanced” because those 
words are used in bizarre, inconsistent ways. Voltage, whether DC or RF, is 
always between two terminals. With a center-fed dipole, the two terminals are 
the elements. With this setup, the two terminals are the wire in the air and 
the wire on the ground.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Aug 13, 2017, at 5:31 AM, rich hurd WC3T  wrote:
> 
> Hi all, particularly Walter (since he mentioned it):
> 
> I've been bedeviled by a question with multiple possible answers. 
> 
> I'm a fan of the idea of using a field antenna as Walter describes by using a 
> BNC - to binding post connector directly to the radio.  
> 
> I'm leery of that because it flies in the face of what I've been told about 
> these antennas:  I'm assuming the radio BNC connection is unbalanced and the 
> wires form a balanced antenna, more or less.  I've seen deployments with 
> end-fed 9:1 baluns and without, even documented on YouTube with great 
> successes. 
> 
> I can tell you that the 9:1 balun setup doesn't seem to be working for my 
> current field deployment but I'd sure like to understand why a balun isn't 
> recommended in this setup.  I'd love to just take the wire and put it on my 
> WonderPole and go for it, but I'd like the understanding first.Why does 
> this work?   :)
> 
> Thanks. 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 13:19 Walter Underwood  > wrote:
> You can get a quick look at band conditions at http://bandconditions.com 
>   >
> 
> Using Buddistick on 40 m is a real challenge. I would not be surprised if 
> that was an S-unit or more below a full-size dipole.
> 
> Try the simplest field antenna for the KX3, two wires connected directly to 
> the rig. Get a BNC to double binding post adaptor. Get a wire 26 to 29 feet 
> long, throw it in a tree and hook one end to the red post. Get a 16 foot 
> wire, lay it on the ground and connect it to the black post. Let the ATU tune 
> it and see you can hear.
> 
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/  (my blog)
> 
> > On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:54 AM, Tommy  > > wrote:
> >
> > The band has been really crappy lately. Keep tuning around and listening.
> >
> > 73!
> >
> > Tom - KB2SMS
> >
> >
> >
> > On 08/11/2017 12:33 PM, Mike Parkes wrote:
> >> Okay I am reaching our to the Elecraft enthusiasts here for some feedback
> >> if anyone cares to chime in.
> >> I am just getting back on the air after years away from the hobby, so I am
> >> not that familiar with band conditions in general. It looks like the
> >> sunspot cycle is heading for the cellar (if it isn't already there).
> >>
> >> Recently bought a KX3 and a Buddistick vertical (like, 2 weeks ago). Love
> >> the KX3 it is 

Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Fred Moore]

There has been a happening in the last 15 or so years.  It seems that
every antenna is "the best we have ever had"  this statement is directly
proportional to the number of people who study theory to those who just
read others comments on the internet. Or as some say, the SWR is 1:1 so
its a great antenna.  BTW I love my dummy load for EXACTLY that reason.

I can clearly say that I have had enough different antenna's over the
last 35 years that I know what is a good antenna and one that is not.. 
plus I even understand most of the theory.  Today a new ham dumps
125-150 bucks in to a 5 dollar pre-manufactured wire antenna, and says,
this is the best antenna around even if he has never used any other
antenna.  See how good it works I even have an S9 noise floor, no other
antenna is this sensitive, when all the wile he is running 30db of
preamp he does not need.

Simply amazes me..  that some think they even have enough education or
experience to even have a meaning full opinion..  but away they go on
eham or qrz about how good something is.  Lucky most on Elecraft don't
all into this category.

We do have many good radio related sites out there, examples are those
who show current band conditions, low power reporting sites to check
your own propagation etc..  those we should learn to use as they are
meaningful but don't assume the to be 100% all of the time, 

I remember many years ago when I was elmering a new ham, he built a 15
meter beam, when he decided after one week that the 40/15 dipole I built
for him was just not working, I loaned him a HW16, he complained for
weeks that the something was wrong, I went over one Saturday to see what
actually was wrong, a spin across the band showed no signals, one CQ
with 50 watts and from Ohio I was the pileup of European stations, I
worked about 5 contacts, looked at him, and said,  "So what is wrong",
he says.. "what knob did you turn when I wasn't looking"  did you ever
call CQ "no says he"  "I think you need to actually use the radio before
you decide something is wrong" says I. 

If the band propagation sites say the band is dead, and your radio is
not hearing anything, most likely it is not your radio or your antenna. 
If you are hearing S9 noise and unhook the antenna and it goes away, I
will make you a bet that your radio is not broken.. 

And yes all of the switching supplies didn't exist 20 years ago, so we
need to do things we didn't have to do before with toroids and other
things that we didn't do before, there is even some noise sources we
can't fix as others are legally generating it.  Me thinks the days of a
usable -127db noise floor are few and far between, thanks mostly to what
our government is allowing to happen...   

FWIW/WYP.. regards.. Fred

Fred Moore
email: f...@fmeco.com
   wd8...@gmail.com
phone: 321-217-8699

On 8/13/17 8:43 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
> Forget about "what you've been told".   Do your own research using various 
> publications such as ARRL Antenna Book or other like publications.   
> Personally in the "I've been told" area, it seems hams have more incomplete 
> and inaccurate information than correct and complete information. 
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 13, 2017, at 7:31 AM, rich hurd WC3T  wrote:
>>
>> Hi all, particularly Walter (since he mentioned it):
>>
>> I've been bedeviled by a question with multiple possible answers.
>>
>> I'm a fan of the idea of using a field antenna as Walter describes by using
>> a BNC - to binding post connector directly to the radio.
>>
>> I'm leery of that because it flies in the face of what I've been told about
>> these antennas:  I'm assuming the radio BNC connection is unbalanced and
>> the wires form a balanced antenna, more or less.  I've seen deployments
>> with end-fed 9:1 baluns and without, even documented on YouTube with great
>> successes.
>>
>> I can tell you that the 9:1 balun setup doesn't seem to be working for my
>> current field deployment but I'd sure like to understand why a balun isn't
>> recommended in this setup.  I'd love to just take the wire and put it on my
>> WonderPole and go for it, but I'd like the understanding first.Why does
>> this work?   :)
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 13:19 Walter Underwood 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> You can get a quick look at band conditions at http://bandconditions.com <
>>> http://bandconditions.com/>
>>>
>>> Using Buddistick on 40 m is a real challenge. I would not be surprised if
>>> that was an S-unit or more below a full-size dipole.
>>>
>>> Try the simplest field antenna for the KX3, two wires connected directly
>>> to the rig. Get a BNC to double binding post adaptor. Get a wire 26 to 29
>>> feet long, throw it in a tree and hook one end to the red post. Get a 16
>>> foot wire, lay it on the ground and connect it to the black post. Let the
>>> ATU tune it and see you can hear.
>>>
>>> wunder
>>> K6WRU
>>> Walter Underwood
>>> CM87wj
>>> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>>>

Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[rich hurd WC3T]

Good point; thanks.

On Sun, Aug 13, 2017 at 08:43 Bob McGraw K4TAX  wrote:

> Forget about "what you've been told".   Do your own research using various
> publications such as ARRL Antenna Book or other like publications.
>  Personally in the "I've been told" area, it seems hams have more
> incomplete and inaccurate information than correct and complete information.
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Aug 13, 2017, at 7:31 AM, rich hurd WC3T  wrote:
> >
> > Hi all, particularly Walter (since he mentioned it):
> >
> > I've been bedeviled by a question with multiple possible answers.
> >
> > I'm a fan of the idea of using a field antenna as Walter describes by
> using
> > a BNC - to binding post connector directly to the radio.
> >
> > I'm leery of that because it flies in the face of what I've been told
> about
> > these antennas:  I'm assuming the radio BNC connection is unbalanced and
> > the wires form a balanced antenna, more or less.  I've seen deployments
> > with end-fed 9:1 baluns and without, even documented on YouTube with
> great
> > successes.
> >
> > I can tell you that the 9:1 balun setup doesn't seem to be working for my
> > current field deployment but I'd sure like to understand why a balun
> isn't
> > recommended in this setup.  I'd love to just take the wire and put it on
> my
> > WonderPole and go for it, but I'd like the understanding first.Why
> does
> > this work?   :)
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 13:19 Walter Underwood 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> You can get a quick look at band conditions at
> http://bandconditions.com <
> >> http://bandconditions.com/>
> >>
> >> Using Buddistick on 40 m is a real challenge. I would not be surprised
> if
> >> that was an S-unit or more below a full-size dipole.
> >>
> >> Try the simplest field antenna for the KX3, two wires connected directly
> >> to the rig. Get a BNC to double binding post adaptor. Get a wire 26 to
> 29
> >> feet long, throw it in a tree and hook one end to the red post. Get a 16
> >> foot wire, lay it on the ground and connect it to the black post. Let
> the
> >> ATU tune it and see you can hear.
> >>
> >> wunder
> >> K6WRU
> >> Walter Underwood
> >> CM87wj
> >> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
> >>
> >>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:54 AM, Tommy  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The band has been really crappy lately. Keep tuning around and
> listening.
> >>>
> >>> 73!
> >>>
> >>> Tom - KB2SMS
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>  On 08/11/2017 12:33 PM, Mike Parkes wrote:
>  Okay I am reaching our to the Elecraft enthusiasts here for some
> >> feedback
>  if anyone cares to chime in.
>  I am just getting back on the air after years away from the hobby, so
> I
> >> am
>  not that familiar with band conditions in general. It looks like the
>  sunspot cycle is heading for the cellar (if it isn't already there).
> 
>  Recently bought a KX3 and a Buddistick vertical (like, 2 weeks ago).
> >> Love
>  the KX3 it is a great radio... however... so far my efforts to hear
> >> much of
>  anything, much less make a contact with someone, has been frustrating
> to
>  say the least. I live in an apartment and am surrounded by power lines
> >> for
>  one thing. The background noise level on 40 is pretty bad varies but
> is
>  s7-9 mostly. I  took my setup to a nearby park and the bands were
>  definitely quieter. So the local manmade noise level is an issue (and
> >> one
>  reason I chose the KX3 was the hope that its rcvr and filtering could
> >> help
>  with that.)
> 
>  Have yet to make a single contact, so I am just wondering if I just
>  happened to choose a really lousy period of solar conditions for HF?
> Or
> >> is
>  the base loaded vertical a joke?
> 
>  I would love to be able to find another ham even close by just to try
> >> and
>  get some sort of an HF QSO even if it is with someone down the block.
>  ...I can tune down to the AM broadcast band and was able to hear some
> >> local
>  AM stations. :)
> 
>  Mike AB7RU
> 
>  (On a side note the tuner in the KX3 is great!. That thing was able to
> >> get
>  a match for 80 meters on the Buddistick which was showing something
> like
>  25:1 swr. The KX3 tuner clicked and rattled for a while and found a
> >> match
>  to <2:1. Not sure how much actual RF is going out, probably not
> much...
> >> but
>  I was amazed it could tune to that high an SWR.)
>  __
>  Elecraft mailing list
>  Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>  Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>  Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> 
>  This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>  Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>  Message delivered to tomm...@hvc.rr.com
> 
> >>>
> >>> __
> >>

Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Forget about "what you've been told".   Do your own research using various 
publications such as ARRL Antenna Book or other like publications.   Personally 
in the "I've been told" area, it seems hams have more incomplete and inaccurate 
information than correct and complete information. 

Bob, K4TAX


Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 13, 2017, at 7:31 AM, rich hurd WC3T  wrote:
> 
> Hi all, particularly Walter (since he mentioned it):
> 
> I've been bedeviled by a question with multiple possible answers.
> 
> I'm a fan of the idea of using a field antenna as Walter describes by using
> a BNC - to binding post connector directly to the radio.
> 
> I'm leery of that because it flies in the face of what I've been told about
> these antennas:  I'm assuming the radio BNC connection is unbalanced and
> the wires form a balanced antenna, more or less.  I've seen deployments
> with end-fed 9:1 baluns and without, even documented on YouTube with great
> successes.
> 
> I can tell you that the 9:1 balun setup doesn't seem to be working for my
> current field deployment but I'd sure like to understand why a balun isn't
> recommended in this setup.  I'd love to just take the wire and put it on my
> WonderPole and go for it, but I'd like the understanding first.Why does
> this work?   :)
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 13:19 Walter Underwood 
> wrote:
> 
>> You can get a quick look at band conditions at http://bandconditions.com <
>> http://bandconditions.com/>
>> 
>> Using Buddistick on 40 m is a real challenge. I would not be surprised if
>> that was an S-unit or more below a full-size dipole.
>> 
>> Try the simplest field antenna for the KX3, two wires connected directly
>> to the rig. Get a BNC to double binding post adaptor. Get a wire 26 to 29
>> feet long, throw it in a tree and hook one end to the red post. Get a 16
>> foot wire, lay it on the ground and connect it to the black post. Let the
>> ATU tune it and see you can hear.
>> 
>> wunder
>> K6WRU
>> Walter Underwood
>> CM87wj
>> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>> 
>>> On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:54 AM, Tommy  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The band has been really crappy lately. Keep tuning around and listening.
>>> 
>>> 73!
>>> 
>>> Tom - KB2SMS
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 08/11/2017 12:33 PM, Mike Parkes wrote:
 Okay I am reaching our to the Elecraft enthusiasts here for some
>> feedback
 if anyone cares to chime in.
 I am just getting back on the air after years away from the hobby, so I
>> am
 not that familiar with band conditions in general. It looks like the
 sunspot cycle is heading for the cellar (if it isn't already there).
 
 Recently bought a KX3 and a Buddistick vertical (like, 2 weeks ago).
>> Love
 the KX3 it is a great radio... however... so far my efforts to hear
>> much of
 anything, much less make a contact with someone, has been frustrating to
 say the least. I live in an apartment and am surrounded by power lines
>> for
 one thing. The background noise level on 40 is pretty bad varies but is
 s7-9 mostly. I  took my setup to a nearby park and the bands were
 definitely quieter. So the local manmade noise level is an issue (and
>> one
 reason I chose the KX3 was the hope that its rcvr and filtering could
>> help
 with that.)
 
 Have yet to make a single contact, so I am just wondering if I just
 happened to choose a really lousy period of solar conditions for HF? Or
>> is
 the base loaded vertical a joke?
 
 I would love to be able to find another ham even close by just to try
>> and
 get some sort of an HF QSO even if it is with someone down the block.
 ...I can tune down to the AM broadcast band and was able to hear some
>> local
 AM stations. :)
 
 Mike AB7RU
 
 (On a side note the tuner in the KX3 is great!. That thing was able to
>> get
 a match for 80 meters on the Buddistick which was showing something like
 25:1 swr. The KX3 tuner clicked and rattled for a while and found a
>> match
 to <2:1. Not sure how much actual RF is going out, probably not much...
>> but
 I was amazed it could tune to that high an SWR.)
 __
 Elecraft mailing list
 Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
 Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
 Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
 
 This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
 Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
 Message delivered to tomm...@hvc.rr.com
 
>>> 
>>> __
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>> 
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to wun...@w

Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[rich hurd WC3T]

Hi all, particularly Walter (since he mentioned it):

I've been bedeviled by a question with multiple possible answers.

I'm a fan of the idea of using a field antenna as Walter describes by using
a BNC - to binding post connector directly to the radio.

I'm leery of that because it flies in the face of what I've been told about
these antennas:  I'm assuming the radio BNC connection is unbalanced and
the wires form a balanced antenna, more or less.  I've seen deployments
with end-fed 9:1 baluns and without, even documented on YouTube with great
successes.

I can tell you that the 9:1 balun setup doesn't seem to be working for my
current field deployment but I'd sure like to understand why a balun isn't
recommended in this setup.  I'd love to just take the wire and put it on my
WonderPole and go for it, but I'd like the understanding first.Why does
this work?   :)

Thanks.

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 13:19 Walter Underwood 
wrote:

> You can get a quick look at band conditions at http://bandconditions.com <
> http://bandconditions.com/>
>
> Using Buddistick on 40 m is a real challenge. I would not be surprised if
> that was an S-unit or more below a full-size dipole.
>
> Try the simplest field antenna for the KX3, two wires connected directly
> to the rig. Get a BNC to double binding post adaptor. Get a wire 26 to 29
> feet long, throw it in a tree and hook one end to the red post. Get a 16
> foot wire, lay it on the ground and connect it to the black post. Let the
> ATU tune it and see you can hear.
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>
> > On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:54 AM, Tommy  wrote:
> >
> > The band has been really crappy lately. Keep tuning around and listening.
> >
> > 73!
> >
> > Tom - KB2SMS
> >
> >
> >
> > On 08/11/2017 12:33 PM, Mike Parkes wrote:
> >> Okay I am reaching our to the Elecraft enthusiasts here for some
> feedback
> >> if anyone cares to chime in.
> >> I am just getting back on the air after years away from the hobby, so I
> am
> >> not that familiar with band conditions in general. It looks like the
> >> sunspot cycle is heading for the cellar (if it isn't already there).
> >>
> >> Recently bought a KX3 and a Buddistick vertical (like, 2 weeks ago).
> Love
> >> the KX3 it is a great radio... however... so far my efforts to hear
> much of
> >> anything, much less make a contact with someone, has been frustrating to
> >> say the least. I live in an apartment and am surrounded by power lines
> for
> >> one thing. The background noise level on 40 is pretty bad varies but is
> >> s7-9 mostly. I  took my setup to a nearby park and the bands were
> >> definitely quieter. So the local manmade noise level is an issue (and
> one
> >> reason I chose the KX3 was the hope that its rcvr and filtering could
> help
> >> with that.)
> >>
> >> Have yet to make a single contact, so I am just wondering if I just
> >> happened to choose a really lousy period of solar conditions for HF? Or
> is
> >> the base loaded vertical a joke?
> >>
> >> I would love to be able to find another ham even close by just to try
> and
> >> get some sort of an HF QSO even if it is with someone down the block.
> >> ...I can tune down to the AM broadcast band and was able to hear some
> local
> >> AM stations. :)
> >>
> >> Mike AB7RU
> >>
> >> (On a side note the tuner in the KX3 is great!. That thing was able to
> get
> >> a match for 80 meters on the Buddistick which was showing something like
> >> 25:1 swr. The KX3 tuner clicked and rattled for a while and found a
> match
> >> to <2:1. Not sure how much actual RF is going out, probably not much...
> but
> >> I was amazed it could tune to that high an SWR.)
> >> __
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >> Message delivered to tomm...@hvc.rr.com
> >>
> >
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to wun...@wunderwood.org
>
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
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-- 
73 (or 72 for the QRP folks),
Rich Hurd / WC3T
DMR ID: 3142737
Northampton County 

Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Bob]

"Guess one gets what they pay for in terms of quality."

I'd say "not always".  There are some major manufacturers that sell into the Ham 
market that are pretty poor.



The P3 was a real eyeopener watching the low level spikes and mounds of wideband 
noise drifting across the screen.  I made some improvements but as far as I was 
concerned not worth the effort.  Ultimate solution is to invest in more iron and 
take the weight and space penalties.


73,
Bob
K2TK  ex KN2TKR (1956) & K2TKR



On 8/12/2017 11:25 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
Not exactly correct.I have 2 which do not, as I measure and listen, create 
any noise.   On the other hand, I purchased a "deal" for a 13V / 30 amp 
supply.   It measures...well it will never be in or around my house as it 
generated lots of noise from 1 MHz to over 100 MHz.   I was suspicious when I 
couldn't find a Part 15 label on the box.  But after all, new shipped to me was 
less than $20.   
73


Bob,  K4TAX


On 8/12/2017 10:13 PM, Clay Autery wrote:

Yup!  And tech geeks like me can have 75 switch mode power supplies in a
1000 ft sq house

SMPS are the devil's work and must be destroyed!  ;)

I've done away with about 1/3 of them so far...  Eventually, I hope to
eliminate ALL of them from the entire property.

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 8/12/2017 10:07 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 8/12/2017 7:31 PM, krug261--- via Elecraft wrote:

I came back to radio after a 15 year break.

The thing that's changed is the proliferation of noise generators. The
RF environment has become so bad that broadcasters have raised the
issue with the FCC, and the FCC is studying it in a serious way.

In a tutorial/applications note about finding and killing it, I made
an educated guess that the average residence has at least two dozen,
and probably three dozen, HF noise sources.

http://k9yc.com/KillingReceiveNoise.pdf

73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

And we used to think plasma panel TV's were bad! Argh!

73 Ron AC7AC

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 8:08 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

On 8/12/2017 7:31 PM, krug261--- via Elecraft wrote:
> I came back to radio after a 15 year break.

The thing that's changed is the proliferation of noise generators. The RF
environment has become so bad that broadcasters have raised the issue with
the FCC, and the FCC is studying it in a serious way.

In a tutorial/applications note about finding and killing it, I made an
educated guess that the average residence has at least two dozen, and
probably three dozen, HF noise sources.

http://k9yc.com/KillingReceiveNoise.pdf

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Bob McGraw K4TAX]

Not exactly correct.I have 2 which do not, as I measure and listen, 
create any noise.   On the other hand, I purchased a "deal" for a 13V / 
30 amp supply.   It measures...well it will never be in or around my 
house as it generated lots of noise from 1 MHz to over 100 MHz.   I was 
suspicious when I couldn't find a Part 15 label on the box.  But after 
all, new shipped to me was less than $20.   Guess one gets what they pay 
for in terms of quality.


73

Bob,  K4TAX


On 8/12/2017 10:13 PM, Clay Autery wrote:

Yup!  And tech geeks like me can have 75 switch mode power supplies in a
1000 ft sq house

SMPS are the devil's work and must be destroyed!  ;)

I've done away with about 1/3 of them so far...  Eventually, I hope to
eliminate ALL of them from the entire property.

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 8/12/2017 10:07 PM, Jim Brown wrote:

On 8/12/2017 7:31 PM, krug261--- via Elecraft wrote:

I came back to radio after a 15 year break.

The thing that's changed is the proliferation of noise generators. The
RF environment has become so bad that broadcasters have raised the
issue with the FCC, and the FCC is studying it in a serious way.

In a tutorial/applications note about finding and killing it, I made
an educated guess that the average residence has at least two dozen,
and probably three dozen, HF noise sources.

http://k9yc.com/KillingReceiveNoise.pdf

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Clay Autery]

Yup!  And tech geeks like me can have 75 switch mode power supplies in a
1000 ft sq house

SMPS are the devil's work and must be destroyed!  ;)

I've done away with about 1/3 of them so far...  Eventually, I hope to
eliminate ALL of them from the entire property.

73,

__
Clay Autery, KY5G

On 8/12/2017 10:07 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On 8/12/2017 7:31 PM, krug261--- via Elecraft wrote:
>> I came back to radio after a 15 year break.
>
> The thing that's changed is the proliferation of noise generators. The
> RF environment has become so bad that broadcasters have raised the
> issue with the FCC, and the FCC is studying it in a serious way.
>
> In a tutorial/applications note about finding and killing it, I made
> an educated guess that the average residence has at least two dozen,
> and probably three dozen, HF noise sources.
>
> http://k9yc.com/KillingReceiveNoise.pdf
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Jim Brown]

On 8/12/2017 7:31 PM, krug261--- via Elecraft wrote:

I came back to radio after a 15 year break.


The thing that's changed is the proliferation of noise generators. The 
RF environment has become so bad that broadcasters have raised the issue 
with the FCC, and the FCC is studying it in a serious way.


In a tutorial/applications note about finding and killing it, I made an 
educated guess that the average residence has at least two dozen, and 
probably three dozen, HF noise sources.


http://k9yc.com/KillingReceiveNoise.pdf

73, Jim K9YC

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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[krug261--- via Elecraft]

Mike,
I had to smile when I read your message. Our situations are so similar.
About a month ago, I came back to radio after a 15 year break. As then, I live 
in an apartment in downtown Manhattan, four blocks north of the World Trade 
Center. (The antenna from 1 World Trade looms clearly above.) For about 20 
years I operated with an end-fed random wire - cut to no electrical length - 
that ran up seven stories to the roof of the building. (Gotta' love antenna 
tuners!) EVERY apartment antenna is a compromise, but it worked. Made my fair 
share of contacts, with the obvious limitations.
Then a month ago I dragged the trusty TS-830 out of the basement locker, set up 
a new antenna - now an open loop going around the outside of four windows. I 
was stunned at the noise level and dearth of signals. At first I thought the 
830 had gone from years of lack of use. Several tests indicated it was working 
OK. Since I operated out of this apartment for two decades, I knew it could be 
done. I'd been pining over the KX3 for several months and, undaunted by the 
conditions, bought the kit and got it together with few hiccups. (Thanks Craig 
for getting back to me in all of 15 minutes with the answer to a question.) 
Even with the dramatically better receiver, still heavy noise and little 
activity. As you, I have yet to make a contact on the KX3. With a make-shift 
wire/counterpoise antenna, I've taken it to one open area; same thing. Oh, and 
on CW. I'll keep trying other locations.
Deep urban operating requires: realistic expectations, ingenuity, and patience. 
I think the next few years are going to test those qualities big time. But I 
have faith!
Bob, KA2TQVKX3 #9842

Original message:
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2017 09:33:41 -07009842
From: Mike Parkes 
To: elecr...@mailman.qth.netwith 
Subject: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?
Message-ID:
    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Okay I am reaching our to the Elecraft enthusiasts here for some feedback
if anyone cares to chime in.
I am just getting back on the air after years away from the hobby, so I am
not that familiar with band conditions in general. It looks like the
sunspot cycle is heading for the cellar (if it isn't already there).

Recently bought a KX3 and a Buddistick vertical (like, 2 weeks ago). Love
the KX3 it is a great radio... however... so far my efforts to hear much of
anything, much less make a contact with someone, has been frustrating to
say the least. I live in an apartment and am surrounded by power lines for
one thing. The background noise level on 40 is pretty bad varies but is
s7-9 mostly. I  took my setup to a nearby park and the bands were
definitely quieter. So the local manmade noise level is an issue (and one
reason I chose the KX3 was the hope that its rcvr and filtering could help
with that.)

Have yet to make a single contact, so I am just wondering if I just
happened to choose a really lousy period of solar conditions for HF? Or is
the base loaded vertical a joke?

I would love to be able to find another ham even close by just to try and
get some sort of an HF QSO even if it is with someone down the block.
...I can tune down to the AM broadcast band and was able to hear some local
AM stations. :)

Mike AB7RU

(On a side note the tuner in the KX3 is great!. That thing was able to get
a match for 80 meters on the Buddistick which was showing something like
25:1 swr. The KX3 tuner clicked and rattled for a while and found a match
to <2:1. Not sure how much actual RF is going out, probably not much... but
I was amazed it could tune to that high an SWR.)



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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[brian]

In other words, don't stack the deck against yourself so heavily.

Reminds me of CQ article.  The author took a 1 w rig, buddipole and a 
beach chair to the shore.  After two days he made no contacts.  He said 
he had fun.  So maybe fun isn't all about making a ton of contacts-- 
perhaps the scenery at the beach was enough.


If contacts are what your after, Frank's points are all well taken.  In 
these days of low sunspots bring the highest power/power source you can 
lug to the game. It's the opposite of the usual expression.  They have 
to hear you to work them.


73 de Brian/K3KO

On 8/11/2017 18:47 PM, donov...@starpower.net wrote:

Hi Mike,


You're in a perfect storm of
- high urban noise,
- QRP power,
- inefficient modulation if you're using only SSB voice
- low sunspot activity,
- a very inefficient antenna, and
- an urban environment that makes any antenna much less efficient


Spokane is surrounded by beautiful rural parks and public lands
w here you can easily escape your high urban noise environment.


You didn't mention what modulation you're using. If you're using
only SSB voice, you've chosen the least efficient modulation method.
CW or the highly efficient digital modes such as FT8 or JT65 are
far better choices for QRP power.



You'll enjoy much better success if you focus on the 40, 30 and 20
meter bands which are much less affected by the current low sunspot
conditions. 17 meters can also be a good choice for QRP power and
simple antennas on days when when propagation is favorable.


While y our vertical with a minimal ground system could be an adequate
antenna on the ocean front hundreds of miles from your QTH, its a
terribly inefficient antenna in your urban environment


Any horizontally polarized antenna would be a much better choice.
A half wave horizontally polarized dipole or a properly engineered
half wave end fed antenna are much better choices. Horizontally
polarized antennas at least 15 feet high are fairly efficient for
domestic contacts. They perform much better for DX contacts if they're
on a hilltop, mountaintop or steeply sloping terrain.


If you're a member of a local radio club they can help you quickly
gain some success.


73
Frank
W3LPL

- Original Message -

From: "Mike Parkes" 
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 4:33:41 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

Okay I am reaching our to the Elecraft enthusiasts here for some feedback
if anyone cares to chime in.
I am just getting back on the air after years away from the hobby, so I am
not that familiar with band conditions in general. It looks like the
sunspot cycle is heading for the cellar (if it isn't already there).

Recently bought a KX3 and a Buddistick vertical (like, 2 weeks ago). Love
the KX3 it is a great radio... however... so far my efforts to hear much of
anything, much less make a contact with someone, has been frustrating to
say the least. I live in an apartment and am surrounded by power lines for
one thing. The background noise level on 40 is pretty bad varies but is
s7-9 mostly. I took my setup to a nearby park and the bands were
definitely quieter. So the local manmade noise level is an issue (and one
reason I chose the KX3 was the hope that its rcvr and filtering could help
with that.)

Have yet to make a single contact, so I am just wondering if I just
happened to choose a really lousy period of solar conditions for HF? Or is
the base loaded vertical a joke?

I would love to be able to find another ham even close by just to try and
get some sort of an HF QSO even if it is with someone down the block.
...I can tune down to the AM broadcast band and was able to hear some local
AM stations. :)

Mike AB7RU

(On a side note the tuner in the KX3 is great!. That thing was able to get
a match for 80 meters on the Buddistick which was showing something like
25:1 swr. The KX3 tuner clicked and rattled for a while and found a match
to <2:1. Not sure how much actual RF is going out, probably not much... but
I was amazed it could tune to that high an SWR.)
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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[donovanf]

Hi Mike, 


You're in a perfect storm of 
- high urban noise, 
- QRP power, 
- inefficient modulation if you're using only SSB voice 
- low sunspot activity, 
- a very inefficient antenna, and 
- an urban environment that makes any antenna much less efficient 


Spokane is surrounded by beautiful rural parks and public lands 
w here you can easily escape your high urban noise environment. 


You didn't mention what modulation you're using. If you're using 
only SSB voice, you've chosen the least efficient modulation method. 
CW or the highly efficient digital modes such as FT8 or JT65 are 
far better choices for QRP power. 



You'll enjoy much better success if you focus on the 40, 30 and 20 
meter bands which are much less affected by the current low sunspot 
conditions. 17 meters can also be a good choice for QRP power and 
simple antennas on days when when propagation is favorable. 


While y our vertical with a minimal ground system could be an adequate 
antenna on the ocean front hundreds of miles from your QTH, its a 
terribly inefficient antenna in your urban environment 


Any horizontally polarized antenna would be a much better choice. 
A half wave horizontally polarized dipole or a properly engineered 
half wave end fed antenna are much better choices. Horizontally 
polarized antennas at least 15 feet high are fairly efficient for 
domestic contacts. They perform much better for DX contacts if they're 
on a hilltop, mountaintop or steeply sloping terrain. 


If you're a member of a local radio club they can help you quickly 
gain some success. 


73 
Frank 
W3LPL 

- Original Message -

From: "Mike Parkes"  
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2017 4:33:41 PM 
Subject: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx? 

Okay I am reaching our to the Elecraft enthusiasts here for some feedback 
if anyone cares to chime in. 
I am just getting back on the air after years away from the hobby, so I am 
not that familiar with band conditions in general. It looks like the 
sunspot cycle is heading for the cellar (if it isn't already there). 

Recently bought a KX3 and a Buddistick vertical (like, 2 weeks ago). Love 
the KX3 it is a great radio... however... so far my efforts to hear much of 
anything, much less make a contact with someone, has been frustrating to 
say the least. I live in an apartment and am surrounded by power lines for 
one thing. The background noise level on 40 is pretty bad varies but is 
s7-9 mostly. I took my setup to a nearby park and the bands were 
definitely quieter. So the local manmade noise level is an issue (and one 
reason I chose the KX3 was the hope that its rcvr and filtering could help 
with that.) 

Have yet to make a single contact, so I am just wondering if I just 
happened to choose a really lousy period of solar conditions for HF? Or is 
the base loaded vertical a joke? 

I would love to be able to find another ham even close by just to try and 
get some sort of an HF QSO even if it is with someone down the block. 
...I can tune down to the AM broadcast band and was able to hear some local 
AM stations. :) 

Mike AB7RU 

(On a side note the tuner in the KX3 is great!. That thing was able to get 
a match for 80 meters on the Buddistick which was showing something like 
25:1 swr. The KX3 tuner clicked and rattled for a while and found a match 
to <2:1. Not sure how much actual RF is going out, probably not much... but 
I was amazed it could tune to that high an SWR.) 
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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Tommy]

  I use a similar set up on my KX2 (per the manual) and it works very 
well. Simple and effective. When the band cooperates.


73!

Tom - KB2SMS



On 08/11/2017 01:19 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:


Try the simplest field antenna for the KX3, two wires connected directly to the 
rig. Get a BNC to double binding post adaptor. Get a wire 26 to 29 feet long, 
throw it in a tree and hook one end to the red post. Get a 16 foot wire, lay it 
on the ground and connect it to the black post. Let the ATU tune it and see you 
can hear.

wunder
K6WRU



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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Jim Brown]

On 8/11/2017 9:33 AM, Mike Parkes wrote:

I  took my setup to a nearby park and the bands were
definitely quieter. So the local manmade noise level is an issue (and one
reason I chose the KX3 was the hope that its rcvr and filtering could help
with that.)

Have yet to make a single contact, so I am just wondering if I just
happened to choose a really lousy period of solar conditions for HF? Or is
the base loaded vertical a joke?


Band conditions ARE lousy, virtually all residential and industrial 
areas are full of noise from electronics of all sorts, especially 
switch-mode power supplies, the antenna you've chosen requires radials 
or a counterpoise, and short base-loaded verticals are seriously 
compromised antennas.


A wire thrown into a tree with another wire a few feet off the ground 
connected to the rig chassis is a far better antenna. I use #22 for the 
kind of operation you do in the park.The same wire can also be taped to 
a telescoping fiberglass pole if there are no trees. The closer the 
length is to a quarter-wave the better. :) If there are hills or 
mountains around you, head for the top of one of them. The ground slope 
will help your transmitted signal, and if there are no buildings or 
radio towers around, it will probably be a lot quieter.


Another problem is that, except for contesting and DXing, CW band 
activity has fallen over the years. 30M is a very good band for QRP, and 
sometimes has more daytime activity than 40 CW; 20M daytime activity 
tends to be greater, but the higher you go in frequency, conditions get 
worse. :)


As to noise -- you're probably going to have to give up on operating 
from your apartment. The likelihood is that every apartment has at least 
a dozen nasty noise sources, and many have a lot more.


73, Jim K9YC


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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[rich hurd WC3T]

I have S6 or so noise at home, and am sort of resigned to it; This weekend
I'm at my brother in law's house in Western MA with S1 noise.  I was
astonished.   Put my KX3 up and a Superantenna and was able to check into a
net where the net control was in MD on 40 meters, using 9 watts.

Keep on dialing around.   The contacts are there but you need to be a bit
artful getting them.


On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 1:19 PM, Walter Underwood 
wrote:

> You can get a quick look at band conditions at http://bandconditions.com <
> http://bandconditions.com/>
>
> Using Buddistick on 40 m is a real challenge. I would not be surprised if
> that was an S-unit or more below a full-size dipole.
>
> Try the simplest field antenna for the KX3, two wires connected directly
> to the rig. Get a BNC to double binding post adaptor. Get a wire 26 to 29
> feet long, throw it in a tree and hook one end to the red post. Get a 16
> foot wire, lay it on the ground and connect it to the black post. Let the
> ATU tune it and see you can hear.
>
> wunder
> K6WRU
> Walter Underwood
> CM87wj
> http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)
>
> > On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:54 AM, Tommy  wrote:
> >
> > The band has been really crappy lately. Keep tuning around and listening.
> >
> > 73!
> >
> > Tom - KB2SMS
> >
> >
> >
> > On 08/11/2017 12:33 PM, Mike Parkes wrote:
> >> Okay I am reaching our to the Elecraft enthusiasts here for some
> feedback
> >> if anyone cares to chime in.
> >> I am just getting back on the air after years away from the hobby, so I
> am
> >> not that familiar with band conditions in general. It looks like the
> >> sunspot cycle is heading for the cellar (if it isn't already there).
> >>
> >> Recently bought a KX3 and a Buddistick vertical (like, 2 weeks ago).
> Love
> >> the KX3 it is a great radio... however... so far my efforts to hear
> much of
> >> anything, much less make a contact with someone, has been frustrating to
> >> say the least. I live in an apartment and am surrounded by power lines
> for
> >> one thing. The background noise level on 40 is pretty bad varies but is
> >> s7-9 mostly. I  took my setup to a nearby park and the bands were
> >> definitely quieter. So the local manmade noise level is an issue (and
> one
> >> reason I chose the KX3 was the hope that its rcvr and filtering could
> help
> >> with that.)
> >>
> >> Have yet to make a single contact, so I am just wondering if I just
> >> happened to choose a really lousy period of solar conditions for HF? Or
> is
> >> the base loaded vertical a joke?
> >>
> >> I would love to be able to find another ham even close by just to try
> and
> >> get some sort of an HF QSO even if it is with someone down the block.
> >> ...I can tune down to the AM broadcast band and was able to hear some
> local
> >> AM stations. :)
> >>
> >> Mike AB7RU
> >>
> >> (On a side note the tuner in the KX3 is great!. That thing was able to
> get
> >> a match for 80 meters on the Buddistick which was showing something like
> >> 25:1 swr. The KX3 tuner clicked and rattled for a while and found a
> match
> >> to <2:1. Not sure how much actual RF is going out, probably not much...
> but
> >> I was amazed it could tune to that high an SWR.)
> >> __
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >> Message delivered to tomm...@hvc.rr.com
> >>
> >
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> >
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> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to wun...@wunderwood.org
>
> __
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>
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> Message delivered to r...@wc3t.us
>



-- 
73 (or 72 for the QRP folks),
Rich Hurd / WC3T
DMR ID: 3142737
Northampton County RACES
EPA-ARRL Public Information Officer for Scouting
Latitude: 40.761621 Longitude: -75.288988  (40°45.68' N 75°17.33' W) Grid:
*FN20is*
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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Philip Anderson]

Mike,

The poor sunspot levels mostly affect the higher bands, so 40m (and 20m) 
should be OK (and have been for me).


It might be that the noise levels in your apartment are just too high to 
operate successfully from there - when I'm in London I only operate 
portable for that reason.


If your park operations are in a town/city park, a vertical antenna 
isn't the best choice, you'll pick up *far* less noise if you use a low 
height (e.g. 3 or 5metres high) horizontal dipole suspended from the trees.


It'll have a high angle of radiation and so be useless for DX, but great 
for 40m NVIS rag chewing and (because of it's high angle of radiation) 
will give a huge noise improvement on the vertical.


At least, that's what I have found operating in central London! I almost 
gave up trying, but with my current portable set-up, HF operations in 
central London are actually quite workable. More info on the antenna I 
use in London on my qrz.com page: https://www.qrz.com/db/G4PWO


(The horizontal dipole might even be worth trying in your apartment, if 
you can fit it in!)


Phil G4PWO


On 11/08/2017 17:33, Mike Parkes wrote:

Okay I am reaching our to the Elecraft enthusiasts here for some feedback
if anyone cares to chime in.
I am just getting back on the air after years away from the hobby, so I am
not that familiar with band conditions in general. It looks like the
sunspot cycle is heading for the cellar (if it isn't already there).

Recently bought a KX3 and a Buddistick vertical (like, 2 weeks ago). Love
the KX3 it is a great radio... however... so far my efforts to hear much of
anything, much less make a contact with someone, has been frustrating to
say the least. I live in an apartment and am surrounded by power lines for
one thing. The background noise level on 40 is pretty bad varies but is
s7-9 mostly. I  took my setup to a nearby park and the bands were
definitely quieter. So the local manmade noise level is an issue (and one
reason I chose the KX3 was the hope that its rcvr and filtering could help
with that.)

Have yet to make a single contact, so I am just wondering if I just
happened to choose a really lousy period of solar conditions for HF? Or is
the base loaded vertical a joke?

I would love to be able to find another ham even close by just to try and
get some sort of an HF QSO even if it is with someone down the block.
...I can tune down to the AM broadcast band and was able to hear some local
AM stations. :)

Mike AB7RU

(On a side note the tuner in the KX3 is great!. That thing was able to get
a match for 80 meters on the Buddistick which was showing something like
25:1 swr. The KX3 tuner clicked and rattled for a while and found a match
to <2:1. Not sure how much actual RF is going out, probably not much... but
I was amazed it could tune to that high an SWR.)
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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Walter Underwood]

You can get a quick look at band conditions at http://bandconditions.com 


Using Buddistick on 40 m is a real challenge. I would not be surprised if that 
was an S-unit or more below a full-size dipole.

Try the simplest field antenna for the KX3, two wires connected directly to the 
rig. Get a BNC to double binding post adaptor. Get a wire 26 to 29 feet long, 
throw it in a tree and hook one end to the red post. Get a 16 foot wire, lay it 
on the ground and connect it to the black post. Let the ATU tune it and see you 
can hear.

wunder
K6WRU
Walter Underwood
CM87wj
http://observer.wunderwood.org/ (my blog)

> On Aug 11, 2017, at 9:54 AM, Tommy  wrote:
> 
> The band has been really crappy lately. Keep tuning around and listening.
> 
> 73!
> 
> Tom - KB2SMS
> 
> 
> 
> On 08/11/2017 12:33 PM, Mike Parkes wrote:
>> Okay I am reaching our to the Elecraft enthusiasts here for some feedback
>> if anyone cares to chime in.
>> I am just getting back on the air after years away from the hobby, so I am
>> not that familiar with band conditions in general. It looks like the
>> sunspot cycle is heading for the cellar (if it isn't already there).
>> 
>> Recently bought a KX3 and a Buddistick vertical (like, 2 weeks ago). Love
>> the KX3 it is a great radio... however... so far my efforts to hear much of
>> anything, much less make a contact with someone, has been frustrating to
>> say the least. I live in an apartment and am surrounded by power lines for
>> one thing. The background noise level on 40 is pretty bad varies but is
>> s7-9 mostly. I  took my setup to a nearby park and the bands were
>> definitely quieter. So the local manmade noise level is an issue (and one
>> reason I chose the KX3 was the hope that its rcvr and filtering could help
>> with that.)
>> 
>> Have yet to make a single contact, so I am just wondering if I just
>> happened to choose a really lousy period of solar conditions for HF? Or is
>> the base loaded vertical a joke?
>> 
>> I would love to be able to find another ham even close by just to try and
>> get some sort of an HF QSO even if it is with someone down the block.
>> ...I can tune down to the AM broadcast band and was able to hear some local
>> AM stations. :)
>> 
>> Mike AB7RU
>> 
>> (On a side note the tuner in the KX3 is great!. That thing was able to get
>> a match for 80 meters on the Buddistick which was showing something like
>> 25:1 swr. The KX3 tuner clicked and rattled for a while and found a match
>> to <2:1. Not sure how much actual RF is going out, probably not much... but
>> I was amazed it could tune to that high an SWR.)
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to tomm...@hvc.rr.com
>> 
> 
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] Is it my KX3/antenna or is it lousy band condx?

[Tommy]

 The band has been really crappy lately. Keep tuning around and listening.

73!

Tom - KB2SMS



On 08/11/2017 12:33 PM, Mike Parkes wrote:

Okay I am reaching our to the Elecraft enthusiasts here for some feedback
if anyone cares to chime in.
I am just getting back on the air after years away from the hobby, so I am
not that familiar with band conditions in general. It looks like the
sunspot cycle is heading for the cellar (if it isn't already there).

Recently bought a KX3 and a Buddistick vertical (like, 2 weeks ago). Love
the KX3 it is a great radio... however... so far my efforts to hear much of
anything, much less make a contact with someone, has been frustrating to
say the least. I live in an apartment and am surrounded by power lines for
one thing. The background noise level on 40 is pretty bad varies but is
s7-9 mostly. I  took my setup to a nearby park and the bands were
definitely quieter. So the local manmade noise level is an issue (and one
reason I chose the KX3 was the hope that its rcvr and filtering could help
with that.)

Have yet to make a single contact, so I am just wondering if I just
happened to choose a really lousy period of solar conditions for HF? Or is
the base loaded vertical a joke?

I would love to be able to find another ham even close by just to try and
get some sort of an HF QSO even if it is with someone down the block.
...I can tune down to the AM broadcast band and was able to hear some local
AM stations. :)

Mike AB7RU

(On a side note the tuner in the KX3 is great!. That thing was able to get
a match for 80 meters on the Buddistick which was showing something like
25:1 swr. The KX3 tuner clicked and rattled for a while and found a match
to <2:1. Not sure how much actual RF is going out, probably not much... but
I was amazed it could tune to that high an SWR.)
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