Re: [Elecraft] Is the K2 old technology
I'm in the same boat as you and my choice was made over a year ago. I will be getting a K3. The K3 is a little bit better than the O2 in specs but the thing that swings it for me is the fantastic Elecraft support. I think I read on the reflector that the O2's firmware hasn't been updated in over a year. How many K3 updates have been sent out this last year? As for the K3 vs. K2 question, K3 has the better receiver although the K2 can put to shame some of the mid level rigs being sold today. K3 is an all mode TX/RX where the K2 is CW/SSB. The K2 has much lower power consumption than the K3 owing to it's design as a QRP rig and lack of bells and whistles. I like to think that comparing the K2 to the K3 is like comparing the Kenwood TS-520 to the Kenwood TS-830 of yore. Bert Craig wrote: Was Conway's question ever adequately explored/answered? As a current K2/100 ( K1) owner and prospective buyer of a K3, I'd love to hear the opinions of those who already own both rigs. The Ten-Tec Orion II is also on the table with regard to my anticipated 2010 present to myself. (My off-duty commanding officer has already approved the purchase - hihi.) HNY to all. Take care es... Vy 73 de Bert WA2SI -Original Message- From: Conway Yee [mailto:y...@bronze.lcs.mit.edu] Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 11:02 PM To: Vic K2VCO Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Is the K2 old technology In what sense does the K3 outperform the K2? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- R. Kevin Stover ACØH __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Is the K2 old technology
Was Conway's question ever adequately explored/answered? As a current K2/100 ( K1) owner and prospective buyer of a K3, I'd love to hear the opinions of those who already own both rigs. The Ten-Tec Orion II is also on the table with regard to my anticipated 2010 present to myself. (My off-duty commanding officer has already approved the purchase - hihi.) HNY to all. Take care es... Vy 73 de Bert WA2SI -Original Message- From: Conway Yee [mailto:y...@bronze.lcs.mit.edu] Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 11:02 PM To: Vic K2VCO Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Is the K2 old technology In what sense does the K3 outperform the K2? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Is the K2 old technology
On Mon, 11 Jan 2010, Vic K2VCO wrote: although I have a better-performing K3, I'd never give it up. Look forward to the sad day when I actually finish the K2, I am planning my next project. While the K3 looks like a much less challenging project, I am intrigued. In what sense does the K3 outperform the K2? tnx. Conway Yee, N2JWQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Is the K2 old technology
N8XMS writes: First, is the K2 long in the tooth? Am I spending a significant amount of money on technology that is on it's way to being obsolete? W9ILF writes: Much of it comes from the fact this reflector seems to be 95% K3 talk. I've been thinking about this thread for awhile. Is the K2 outdated technology? I would say yes almost without equivocation. Ham radio in general is outdated. I have a cellphone in my pocket that has 1 watt output and gives CONFIDENT point-to-point communication around the world under virtually all reasonable circumstances. The Internet also gives much more convenient worldwide communication. The only advantage ham radio has in communication in the absence of intervening infrastructure. The construction of the K2 is also outdated technology. The IC choices are now increasingly difficult to find (in any form factor as the designs themselves are getting discontinued). SMT is now the norm in industry and DIP is outdated. Software defined radio rather than hardware is now becoming the norm. The K2 is the state of the art in ONLY an extreme niche. Specifically it is likely the highest performing hardware radio that is available for construction by a hobbyist from the component level. Given technical advances in electronics, it is likely to remain the state of the art for the foreseeable future. As far as maintainability, I see no insurmountable challenges. After all, there are Model T and Delorean clubs keeping those cars on the road. With the Internet available, communication with enthusiasts are easier than with newsletters (e.g. FoxTango). Elecraft is too small a company to manufacture any part that is not easily reversed engineered. Sooner or later nearly all the DIP IC's will be not available on the market. At this point, since the technology used in the K2 was relatively generic, we will figure out that the chips (say 612 or the 3150) was used in massive quantities in a Sony Walkman or a Technics audio amplifier. Ebay prices on such items will be negligible and Elecraft enthusiasts can buy someone else's junk for pennies on the dollar. tnx. Conway Yee, N2JWQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Is the K2 old technology
Conway Yee wrote: The K2 is the state of the art in ONLY an extreme niche. Specifically it is likely the highest performing hardware radio that is available for construction by a hobbyist from the component level. Given technical advances in electronics, it is likely to remain the state of the art for the foreseeable future. It is also state of the art in another niche, that of low-power-drain QRP contesting. The combination of performance and low power consumption hits the 'sweet spot' for Field Day 1a battery class, for example. There are radios that perform better and there are radios that consume less power, but the K2 is the perfect compromise in this regard. It is also big enough to operate without getting cramped but still reasonably small and lightweight. The KAT2 tuner adds almost no power consumption and is extremely flexible. Even if I weren't sentimental about it -- I built it in 1999 and have made many mods over the years -- and although I have a better-performing K3, I'd never give it up. -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Is the K2 old technology
SMT is now the norm in industry and DIP is outdated. [...] Sooner or later nearly all the DIP IC's will be not available on the market. If it becomes a matter of form factor only (i.e. the chips are only available in SMT format,) SMT-to-DIP adapter boards are readily available. Just search for DIP adapter on your favorite search engine. As far as maintainability, I see no insurmountable challenges. [...] Elecraft is too small a company to manufacture any part that is not easily reversed engineered. Except for one: firmware. Without source code, it would be pretty difficult to reverse engineer the functionality in the various microcontrollers in any rig. And there are legal issues to consider as well. I'm confident that as long as Wayne, Eric, et al. are in charge, replacement uC parts will remain available. But those guys won't be in charge forever. The next batch of folks who control Elecraft might not be as conscientious. :-) I'm not quite sure why the thought of a uC chip failure making my K2 unrepairable bothers me so much. I have lots of other electronic devices that rely on custom chips or embedded software for their functionality, and yet the thought of them becoming useless because of a uC failure doesn't concern me. For some reason, with my ham rigs it feels different. 73 -- Joe KB8AP On Jan 11, 2010, at 7:11 AM, Conway Yee wrote: N8XMS writes: First, is the K2 long in the tooth? Am I spending a significant amount of money on technology that is on it's way to being obsolete? W9ILF writes: Much of it comes from the fact this reflector seems to be 95% K3 talk. I've been thinking about this thread for awhile. Is the K2 outdated technology? I would say yes almost without equivocation. Ham radio in general is outdated. I have a cellphone in my pocket that has 1 watt output and gives CONFIDENT point-to-point communication around the world under virtually all reasonable circumstances. The Internet also gives much more convenient worldwide communication. The only advantage ham radio has in communication in the absence of intervening infrastructure. The construction of the K2 is also outdated technology. The IC choices are now increasingly difficult to find (in any form factor as the designs themselves are getting discontinued). SMT is now the norm in industry and DIP is outdated. Software defined radio rather than hardware is now becoming the norm. The K2 is the state of the art in ONLY an extreme niche. Specifically it is likely the highest performing hardware radio that is available for construction by a hobbyist from the component level. Given technical advances in electronics, it is likely to remain the state of the art for the foreseeable future. As far as maintainability, I see no insurmountable challenges. After all, there are Model T and Delorean clubs keeping those cars on the road. With the Internet available, communication with enthusiasts are easier than with newsletters (e.g. FoxTango). Elecraft is too small a company to manufacture any part that is not easily reversed engineered. Sooner or later nearly all the DIP IC's will be not available on the market. At this point, since the technology used in the K2 was relatively generic, we will figure out that the chips (say 612 or the 3150) was used in massive quantities in a Sony Walkman or a Technics audio amplifier. Ebay prices on such items will be negligible and Elecraft enthusiasts can buy someone else's junk for pennies on the dollar. tnx. Conway Yee, N2JWQ __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Is the K2 old technology?
Paul, I see you got some good answers but just wanted to add some of my experience. If you are interested in building a kit you can not beat the K2. K3 is a great radio but is not really a kit. The K2 you build starting from a box of parts. One of the greatest things about the K2 kit is that there are almost no wires, so you are not building wiring harnesses (which I do not consider to be fun). You are building boards and building up the chassis. If there was a K3 kit that started with a bag of parts, there would be no decision to make, but that is not the case. If you mainly want a CW rig, I don't see how you could need anything more. BUT if you want mainly a SSB rig, I would suggest you consider the K3 instead. K2 works fine on SSB, but some of the creature comforts could be better. As far as the reflector, some of us urged Elecraft to separate the K2 and K3 lists in some way, but they have opted not to do so. As a result, this is not the resource it used to be for a K2 owner. You can still get ALL your questions answered here, so don't get me wrong, but you will drown in K3 trivia if you just monitor the list, and there is no easy way to receive only K2-related threads that I know of. Go for the K2 and enjoy it. Tom KG3V On Dec 10, 2009 7:20pm, Paul Huff ph...@mi.rr.com wrote: I think that I have finally saved up enough money to purchase my long-desired K2. But there are two thoughts that cause me to hesitate: First, is the K2 long in the tooth? Am I spending a significant amount of money on technology that is on it's way to being obsolete? Second, I will only be able to purchase a basic K2 and plan on adding the extras to it over the next couple of years. Will Elecraft still be offering those products for that length of time? I guess that I will ask that 2nd question directly to Elecraft, but any opinions on the first question would be appreciated. Thanks in advance and 73, Paul - N8XMS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Is the K2 old technology?
Dear Tom the list, At 02:35 AM 12/14/2009 +, you wrote: As far as the reflector, some of us urged Elecraft to separate the K2 and K3 lists in some way, but they have opted not to do so. As a result, this is not the resource it used to be for a K2 owner. You can still get ALL your questions answered here, so don't get me wrong, but you will drown in K3 trivia if you just monitor the list, and there is no easy way to receive only K2-related threads that I know of. I use Eudora 7 Mail Client, and believe others may have some of the same abilities. I set the filters to look for K3 in the subject or in the body, and if so it goes in the trash as read. K2 is the next filter so it puts those in the Elecraft mailbox. Those that don't have K3 or K2 go in the In mailbox. It isn't a foolproof system, but it really helps me seperate out the K3 messages. TR, WB6TMY __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Is the K2 old technology?
On Thu Dec 10 19:20:41 EST 2009 Paul Huff (N8XMS) wrote... ... I will only be able to purchase a basic K2 and plan on adding the extras to it over the next couple of years... Hi Paul, Congratulations in advance of your K2 purchase. You were very wise to post your question on the Reflector so folks could offer you suggestions. My first suggestion would be to check out http://www.unpcbs.com/. This site offers two aftermarket K2 accessories that will make it lots easier (and safer) to add the options of you choice when that time comes. The cost of these aftermarket accessories is trivial in comparison to the value they provide. 73 Happy Holidays, Gary KI4GGX (unpcbs.com webmaster) __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Is the K2 old technology?
Paul Huff-3 wrote: I think that I have finally saved up enough money to purchase my long-desired K2. But there are two thoughts that cause me to hesitate: First, is the K2 long in the tooth? Am I spending a significant amount of money on technology that is on it's way to being obsolete? Second, I will only be able to purchase a basic K2 and plan on adding the extras to it over the next couple of years. Will Elecraft still be offering those products for that length of time? Glad to say, ham radio does not suffer the obsolescence of consumer electronics. The bands are more or less the same, the modes are the same. The K2 is a compact, lightweight, portable transceiver with low power consumption that you can build yourself. None of that is going to change. What might cause it eventually to become obsolete are things outside Elecraft's control, like the discontinuation of key parts for which there are no alternatives. - Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222. * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Is-the-K2-old-technology-tp4148780p4150365.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Is the K2 old technology?
Paul... I have owned a K2 for about three years now. It replaced an FT990. Is is fully loaded [NB, SSB, DSP AMP]. I'm not an expert on state of the art, but do have some subjective comments. It's a great little rig. I'm completely pleased with it. I bought it specifically for its performance and the build it yourself mojo. Even if I never used it, the fun of building it was super. I tinker around with it constantly, which, aside from menu programing in the K3, one can't really do with the K3 at the hardware level. It clearly doesn't have lots of the bells and whistles of the K3, and if such is important to you, or you have some specific need/interest, then the K3 may be what you want. But, the raw receiver in the K2 is almost as good as it gets; the general operation is certainly acceptable; and, with add-ons it pretty much does whatever I ask it to do. I'd buy a K3 if money were no object, but for me the investment of another $2K plus wouldn't result in a corresponding increment in performance. Hope you find the right choice for you. Either way, Elecraft is the company of choice, and in that respect you won't/can't go wrong with either rig. Happy Holidays. ...robert Paul Huff wrote: I think that I have finally saved up enough money to purchase my long-desired K2. But there are two thoughts that cause me to hesitate: First, is the K2 long in the tooth? Am I spending a significant amount of money on technology that is on it's way to being obsolete? Second, I will only be able to purchase a basic K2 and plan on adding the extras to it over the next couple of years. Will Elecraft still be offering those products for that length of time? I guess that I will ask that 2nd question directly to Elecraft, but any opinions on the first question would be appreciated. Thanks in advance and 73, Paul - N8XMS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html -- Robert G. Strickland, PhD, ABPH - KE2WY rc...@verizon.net Syracuse, New York, USA __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Is the K2 old technology?
Paul, I do not believe Elecraft will discontinue the K2 nor its options for some long time to come. Yes, the K2 is over 10 years old, but still going strong. It is a 'mature' product, which means that there will not likely be additional updates for it down the road. You can feel safe buying the basic K2 and adding options later. These are not just my thoughts, they have been confirmed by Wayne and Eric publicly on this reflector. A fully loaded K2 will give you most of the features that a basic K3 offers although the K3 offers some nice 'extras' too, so ... If your final goal is a fully loaded K2 (with all options including the KDSP2), then you will find the price is comparable with the K3 basic cost, but if you must do it incrementally due to budget constraints, then the K2 has a lower entry price. The K2 is a great performing transceiver all by itself - and it is still not very far down the list on the Sherwood listings. I am assuming that you will enjoy building the K2 from its discrete parts rather than plugging the boards together and assembling the hardware pieces - the latter is the assembly process for the K3 kit. If the building process turns you off, then save up your ham budget dollars and go for the basic K3. 73, Don W3FPR Paul Huff wrote: I think that I have finally saved up enough money to purchase my long-desired K2. But there are two thoughts that cause me to hesitate: First, is the K2 long in the tooth? Am I spending a significant amount of money on technology that is on it's way to being obsolete? Second, I will only be able to purchase a basic K2 and plan on adding the extras to it over the next couple of years. Will Elecraft still be offering those products for that length of time? I guess that I will ask that 2nd question directly to Elecraft, but any opinions on the first question would be appreciated. Thanks in advance and 73, Paul - N8XMS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.709 / Virus Database: 270.14.102/2556 - Release Date: 12/10/09 02:36:00 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] Is the K2 old technology?
Paul I just got a K2 early this summer. It was quite a stretch for what I am able to spend on ham radio. I sold a Icom 703 to fund part of the purchase. I have been able to add some nice options this year just one extra at a time. I'm waiting on an auto tuner right now. A K3 just isn't affordable for me though I wish I could play at that level. I think I have gone though the same purchasing feeling as your are afraid of. Much of it comes from the fact this reflector seems to be 95% K3 talk.(understandable because it is still very new) Another has been when I call Elecraft to order something they start my puchase conversation assuming I am inquiring about a K3 or something about a K3. I have to stop the conversation quickly and clearly tell them about what I am ordering is for a K2.(this does nothing to make me feel I am spending my money very well) Last point is the Elecraft web site calls the K2 K2 Classic HF Transceiver Kit. Classic brings to mind antique. The Heathkit HW-8 is a classic (but in no way compares to the sophistication of a K2.) I think the word classic is a poor choice for marketing a current rig. I keep in mind, however, that comparing the most recent QRP radios that are or were on the market by any other company I can think of, the K2 holds better in performance and similar in being a current manufacturing begin date. The Reflector history is a great resource and you will still get your questions answered if you ask. I just looked up the word classic in my dictionary and I find it's definition as a. Of highest rank or class b. Serving as the established model or standard a classic example. My K2 is my do everything QRP radio. It is fantastic both on my desk and out with me backpacking. The more I use it the more I LOVE it! I plan to keep adding options as I can and will enjoy it for a very long time. HECK! I am even feeling better now about the word Classic. Remember ham radio isn't A radio, it is an experience. So. Go For It Paul and enjoy the ride. It's GREAT! Ivin W9ILF --- On Thu, 12/10/09, Paul Huff ph...@mi.rr.com wrote: From: Paul Huff ph...@mi.rr.com Subject: [Elecraft] Is the K2 old technology? To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Date: Thursday, December 10, 2009, 4:20 PM I think that I have finally saved up enough money to purchase my long-desired K2. But there are two thoughts that cause me to hesitate: First, is the K2 long in the tooth? Am I spending a significant amount of money on technology that is on it's way to being obsolete? Second, I will only be able to purchase a basic K2 and plan on adding the extras to it over the next couple of years. Will Elecraft still be offering those products for that length of time? I guess that I will ask that 2nd question directly to Elecraft, but any opinions on the first question would be appreciated. Thanks in advance and 73, Paul - N8XMS __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
