Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Phil Wheeler]

I'm happy with my 4-band module. Works great. And 
added backlight yesterday: A very nice rig.


A six-band module would be good if you wanted 
80-40-30-20-15 and one other band. I've never 
operated QRP on 80, except PSK31 with the PSK-80. 
Usually too antenna challenged when portable for 
QRP on 80, and at home QRN is bad a good part of 
the time.


Before doing a six-band module, make sure the MCU 
will support six *simultaneous* bands in the K1. 
Seems like new territory, so Wayne would have to 
weigh in.


Phil W7OX

On 7/26/14, 9:34 AM, Humberto wrote:

Hi,

what would you think of a six-band module ?
Would it be interresting for the elecraft K1 users ?

I am think about build one. With afined design which
is easier to align with different trim capacitors !

Your opinion ???

73

Herbert


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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Humberto]

Hi,

what would you think of a six-band module ?
Would it be interresting for the elecraft K1 users ?

I am think about build one. With afined design which 
is easier to align with different trim capacitors !

Your opinion ???

73

Herbert



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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Hjalmar Duklæt]

I use the technique with the rubber band and change filter board in 5 minutes 
from I start to unscrew the first screw of the top cover. 
73 de Hal/la4xx
K1 2929

On 14-07-23 19:12, Mike Morrow   wrote:
> 
> >> Changing band modules is a special pain for me 
> >> because installed the onboard tuner (which is 
> >> rarely used) into my K//1/
> 
> > The band module resides under the ATU board making 
> > such changes something not done without some 
> > strong motive.
> 
> Tom/N0SS described 14 years ago a simple technique that
> makes a filter board change when the KAT1 is installed
> much easier. He cut two segments from a thin rubber band
> and placed them inside the spacers that separate the KAT1
> and KFL1. He threaded the screw coming out below the KAT1
> PCB into each spacer with rubber strip in it. That keeps
> the otherwise loose spacers in place on the screw threads
> as the screws are turned during KAT1 removal/replacement
> for subsequent KFL1 swaps.
> 
> The K1 MCU remembers the frequency display calibration for
> each band that was set by OFS, using a new KFL1 requires only
> loosening the two KAT1 PCB screws, removing the KAT1 (the
> KAT1-KFL1 spacers will now remain on the screw threads as the
> KAT1 is pulled off), swapping the KFL1, replacing the KAT1,
> installing the K1 top cover, and assigning b1 and b2 to the
> new bands.
> 
> OK...so it's *still* a bit of a pain. But not having to mess
> with those two PCB spacers below the KAT1 is *major* improvement!
> 
> Mike / KK5F
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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Don Wilhelm]

I am aware of the "rubber band trick", but I find no difficulty at all 
in plugging the KAT1 even with loose standoffs.

First place the standoffs so they are close to the holes in the board.
Next (and most important) put the long screws through the KAT1 board - 
hold them down with your fingers or thumbs.
Now eyeball the top of the standoffs with the end of the screws and 
insert the screws a bit into the standoffs.
Since the screws contact the standoffs before the connector pins come 
close to their mates, you can now align the connectors and push them home.
Wiggle the screws a little bit to get them to drop into the holes on the 
KFL1 board and tighten them - job done.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/23/2014 1:12 PM, Mike Morrow wrote:

Changing band modules is a special pain for me
because installed the onboard tuner (which is
rarely used) into my K//1/

The band module resides under the ATU board making
such changes something not done without some
strong motive.

Tom/N0SS described 14 years ago a simple technique that
makes a filter board change when the KAT1 is installed
much easier.  He cut two segments from a thin rubber band
and placed them inside the spacers that separate the KAT1
and KFL1.  He threaded the screw coming out below the KAT1
PCB into each spacer with rubber strip in it.  That keeps
the otherwise loose spacers in place on the screw threads
as the screws are turned during KAT1 removal/replacement
for subsequent KFL1 swaps.

The K1 MCU remembers the frequency display calibration for
each band that was set by OFS, using a new KFL1 requires only
loosening the two KAT1 PCB screws, removing the KAT1 (the
KAT1-KFL1 spacers will now remain on the screw threads as the
KAT1 is pulled off), swapping the KFL1, replacing the KAT1,
installing the K1 top cover, and assigning b1 and b2 to the
new bands.

OK...so it's *still* a bit of a pain.  But not having to mess
with those two PCB spacers below the KAT1 is *major* improvement!




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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Mike Morrow]

>> Changing band modules is a special pain for me 
>> because installed the onboard tuner (which is 
>> rarely used) into my K//1/

> The band module resides under the ATU board making 
> such changes something not done without some 
> strong motive.

Tom/N0SS described 14 years ago a simple technique that
makes a filter board change when the KAT1 is installed
much easier.  He cut two segments from a thin rubber band
and placed them inside the spacers that separate the KAT1
and KFL1.  He threaded the screw coming out below the KAT1
PCB into each spacer with rubber strip in it.  That keeps
the otherwise loose spacers in place on the screw threads
as the screws are turned during KAT1 removal/replacement
for subsequent KFL1 swaps.

The K1 MCU remembers the frequency display calibration for
each band that was set by OFS, using a new KFL1 requires only
loosening the two KAT1 PCB screws, removing the KAT1 (the
KAT1-KFL1 spacers will now remain on the screw threads as the
KAT1 is pulled off), swapping the KFL1, replacing the KAT1,
installing the K1 top cover, and assigning b1 and b2 to the
new bands.

OK...so it's *still* a bit of a pain.  But not having to mess
with those two PCB spacers below the KAT1 is *major* improvement!

Mike / KK5F
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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Phil Wheeler]

Curt,

All you say rings true. And this is an especially 
important point:


/Changing band modules is a special pain for me 
because installed the onboard tuner (which is 
rarely used) into my K//1/


The band module resides under the ATU board making 
such changes something not done without some 
strong motive. If I had the original two-band K1, 
vs. having the 40/30/20/15 model you have, it 
would satisfy 95% of my operating needs.


Phil W7OX

On 7/23/14, 6:09 AM, Curt wrote:
Oh well, all good things eventually end.  Kit 
building in the conventional sense is probably a 
declining interest anyway. Having built both 
thru-hole and SMT radios (ATS-3B), probably 
enjoy building about as much as operating.


Am thankful to have built a K1-4 (40/30/20/15) 
several years ago, also two-band boards for 
80/17 and 12/10.
People who like to build ought to get a K1-2, 
K2, or KX1 before they all disappear due to 
parts availability issues.


Have never owned a KX1, but for me the K1 is 
pretty much the ultimate QRP radio.  90% of my 
operation is on 20M,  remainder mostly 40M, with 
solar cycle 15M has been fun too but in another 
two years that will be over.  30M has been used 
maybe twice.  A 2-band radio would certainly 
fill my needs. Changing band modules is a 
special pain for me because installed the 
onboard tuner (which is rarely used) into my K1 
.  The extra boards have spent most of their 
lives in the desk drawer.


I would think a K1-2 for 40 (or 30) and 20 would 
still be a very good choice for anyone wanting a 
good performing full-featured QRP radio for home 
and/or portable.


Curt KB5JO


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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Curt]

Oh well, all good things eventually end.  Kit building in the conventional 
sense is probably a declining interest anyway. Having built both thru-hole 
and SMT radios (ATS-3B), probably enjoy building about as much as operating.


Am thankful to have built a K1-4 (40/30/20/15) several years ago, also 
two-band boards for 80/17 and 12/10.
People who like to build ought to get a K1-2, K2, or KX1 before they all 
disappear due to parts availability issues.


Have never owned a KX1, but for me the K1 is pretty much the ultimate QRP 
radio.  90% of my operation is on 20M,  remainder mostly 40M, with solar 
cycle 15M has been fun too but in another two years that will be over.  30M 
has been used maybe twice.  A 2-band radio would certainly fill my needs. 
Changing band modules is a special pain for me because installed the onboard 
tuner (which is rarely used) into my K1 .  The extra boards have spent most 
of their lives in the desk drawer.


I would think a K1-2 for 40 (or 30) and 20 would still be a very good choice 
for anyone wanting a good performing full-featured QRP radio for home and/or 
portable.


Curt KB5JO 



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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone? (Hand SMT---Never)

[hwschulte]

Hi all,

as I started that idea with the SMT components, I will try to moderate a
little bit.
I am over sixty and so I know the problems with needs of special glasses
to handle the
SMT components down at 603 or 402 ( 1  x 0.5mm).

So my idea is, not designing without SMT, but for those who like it,
provide kits with
premounted SMT , so that these users may build their kit without the
needToday  to handle and
solder SMT "sand".

Today in some cases the "wanted" parts are no longer available as THT.
In the future this will be
the case for more and more parts. The most evil thing is, that some very
interesting part are even
today only available as BGA SMT which needs the handling by special
tools or machine just
for the placement ?!

So let's have fun and let's not forget to prepare a way for those which
can not or are unwilling to
solder SMT

Humberto

. Am 21.07.2014 14:40, schrieb N4OI - Ken:
> Wow -- I kind of touched a nerve with the "big boy" reference!  I recall this
> term was used by Dave Benson in some of his SWL kit documentation.  It
> merely referred the reader to a stripped-down section of the instructions if
> one wanted to bypass the lengthy, step-by-step narrative...  My point is
> that manufacturers, such as the premier innovator, Elecraft, should not be
> constrained in their product designs by offering only through-hole or
> solder-only kits. Why, even TenTec has leap-frogged the industry in this
> area with their open-source, Rebel QRP platforms! 
>
> I apologize for the poor use of words.  As a relative newcomer to ham radio,
> it was not my intention to denigrate anyone on this reflector - especially
> those who have vastly superior technical knowledge and capabilities.
>
> 73
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Re-K1-4-4-band-version-gone-Hand-SMT-Never-tp7591431p7591475.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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>


-- 
Cumprimentos / Freundliche Grüsse / Best regards

Herbert W. Schulte


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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone? (Hand SMT---Never)

[Wayne Burdick]

Simple SMD kits are fine because the success rate can be high and the 
investment risk on the part of both the customer and the manufacturer is low. 
We may offer such kits in the future, though we don't have any present plans 
for these.

The percentage of builders who could complete a complex SMD kit, or have the 
skill and test gear to troubleshoot them, is small. Kitting and documentation 
alone would be a huge investment for us, not to mention customer support. Many 
such kits would never be finished, or repaired, or would have mysterious 
unresolved issues. Perceived quality would suffer and frustration levels would 
go way up. 

One thing Elecraft is known for is packing a lot of functionality into a small 
space. This requires the use of very fine-pitch TQFP IC packages as well as 
0603 passives (even 0402 in a few cases). To make SMD kits viable at all we'd 
have to use much larger-pitch parts. This would force products to be larger, 
heavier, and more expensive.

Even though a small percentage of customers would be willing and able, this 
simply isn't an economically viable direction for us.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone? (Hand SMT---Never)

[hwschulte]

Am 21.07.2014 14:40, schrieb N4OI - Ken:
> Wow -- I kind of touched a nerve with the "big boy" reference!  I recall this
> term was used by Dave Benson in some of his SWL kit documentation.  It
> merely referred the reader to a stripped-down section of the instructions if
> one wanted to bypass the lengthy, step-by-step narrative...  My point is
> that manufacturers, such as the premier innovator, Elecraft, should not be
> constrained in their product designs by offering only through-hole or
> solder-only kits. Why, even TenTec has leap-frogged the industry in this
> area with their open-source, Rebel QRP platforms! 
>
> I apologize for the poor use of words.  As a relative newcomer to ham radio,
> it was not my intention to denigrate anyone on this reflector - especially
> those who have vastly superior technical knowledge and capabilities.
>
> 73
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Re-K1-4-4-band-version-gone-Hand-SMT-Never-tp7591431p7591475.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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>


-- 
Cumprimentos / Freundliche Grüsse / Best regards

Herbert W. Schulte


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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone? (Hand SMT---Never

[Phil Wheeler]

I don't think it's a matter of technique, Bob. I 
have all the right equipment (the special 
tweezers, solder paste - in the fridge, a hot 
plate, a heat gun). And I will do small, simple 
boards -- which even a 4-band K1 would not be.


My problem is knowing that an ill timed sneeze can 
cause a serious problem - and it has. Plus as I 
age my hands get a bit shaky, another problem. So 
I avoid SMT whenever possible, to the point of 
paying someone else to do it as in a recent project.


Phil W7OX

On 7/21/14, 7:42 AM, riese-k3...@juno.com wrote:

while this string is open
  
I have used a small Iron and tweezers to position chip caps/resistors

tack one end and then do the other end,,, I use some liquid rosin
the multi lead devices make sure leads are centered on the board then
tack
one pin,,, solder the rest and use solder wick to clean up bridges
working under a mag light,,, than I go over it with a 10 power stereo
microscope
static strap fer sure
  
however
  
when I built a DEM 1296 transverter board a chip cap got away from me

and couldnt find it,, when I was done I found it sticking to my thumb
nail
go figure
  
Bob K3DJC
  
On Sun, 20 Jul 2014 19:32:12 -0400 "Bruce Beford"

 writes:

While I understand this mindset; I for one, am grateful that there
are
SMT-based kits available. I enjoy building both thru-hole and SMT
based
projects. In many cases, thru hole equivalents are not available for
some
components. I have built many all-SMT projects, notably those
offered by
KD1JV,ad formerly NJQRP (now Midnight Design Solutions), among
others




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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone? (Hand SMT---Never)

[N4OI - Ken]

Wow -- I kind of touched a nerve with the "big boy" reference!  I recall this
term was used by Dave Benson in some of his SWL kit documentation.  It
merely referred the reader to a stripped-down section of the instructions if
one wanted to bypass the lengthy, step-by-step narrative...  My point is
that manufacturers, such as the premier innovator, Elecraft, should not be
constrained in their product designs by offering only through-hole or
solder-only kits. Why, even TenTec has leap-frogged the industry in this
area with their open-source, Rebel QRP platforms! 

I apologize for the poor use of words.  As a relative newcomer to ham radio,
it was not my intention to denigrate anyone on this reflector - especially
those who have vastly superior technical knowledge and capabilities.

73



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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone? (Hand SMT---Never)

[Phil Wheeler]

Oh yes, that!  I didn't think of it as SMT because 
it has four leads.  Took me a while to figure out 
how to orient it, though. I sneezed and almost 
lost that critter.


And I have two spares -- so mine is likely to last 
forever.


Phil W7OX

On 7/20/14, 5:30 PM, Matt Maguire wrote:

ObElecraftContent:
Elecraft does have a kit where you have to solder an SMT device -- the
wideband noise generator. I got to practice twice with that one: once
when I first build it, and then again after I have a little accident
with a transmitter :-)  I was going to try to remove the damaged
component with a hot air rework station that I picked up recently, but
with the plastic battery holder etc. nearby, thought better of it and
just snipped off the fried component with my side cutters, with no
dramas.
73, Matt VK2RQ


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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone? (Hand SMT---Never)

[Bruce Beford]

I build all my SMT projects with my 30+ year old Weller WTCPT iron, and an
Optivisor. Have been for years now.
Bruce/N1RX
 
Jim/ AD6CW wrote:More power to you and others who have the patience,
equipment and 
eyesight/hand coordination to work with SMT devices, Bruce.
I think what many of us are saying, is that type of construction is not 
for everyone.
 
I have a nice Weller soldering station and a variety of tips for it, as 
well as enough 63/37 solder to last a lifetime.
Somehow it fell into my tool pouch from time to time, when I was in the 
Air Force working on air traffic control radar systems.  :-)
I'd rather spend my money on other items for the shack, than for the 
tools necessary to do SMT work.

 

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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone? (Hand SMT---Never)

[Matt Maguire]

My first experience with SMT was building a softrock multiband
receiver kit. It is a hybrid through hole/SMT kit, with few different
types of SMT devices. I really enjoyed building it, and learned a lot
from it, and would recommend it to anyone wanting to dip their toe in
the water, so to speak.

ObElecraftContent:
Elecraft does have a kit where you have to solder an SMT device -- the
wideband noise generator. I got to practice twice with that one: once
when I first build it, and then again after I have a little accident
with a transmitter :-)  I was going to try to remove the damaged
component with a hot air rework station that I picked up recently, but
with the plastic battery holder etc. nearby, thought better of it and
just snipped off the fried component with my side cutters, with no
dramas.
73, Matt VK2RQ
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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone? (Hand SMT---Never)

[Jim Lowman]

More power to you and others who have the patience, equipment and 
eyesight/hand coordination to work with SMT devices, Bruce.
I think what many of us are saying, is that type of construction is not 
for everyone.


I have a nice Weller soldering station and a variety of tips for it, as 
well as enough 63/37 solder to last a lifetime.
Somehow it fell into my tool pouch from time to time, when I was in the 
Air Force working on air traffic control radar systems.  :-)
I'd rather spend my money on other items for the shack, than for the 
tools necessary to do SMT work.


Maybe if there hadn't been the inference that we weren't "big boys" if 
we didn't build kits with SMT devices, this thread may have passed, 
unnoticed.


73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 7/20/2014 4:32 PM, Bruce Beford wrote:

While I understand this mindset; I for one, am grateful that there are
SMT-based kits available. I enjoy building both thru-hole and SMT based
projects. In many cases, thru hole equivalents are not available for some
components. I have built many all-SMT projects, notably those offered by
KD1JV,ad formerly NJQRP (now Midnight Design Solutions), among others.

No, they are not for everyone. But- I am glad they are offered for those of
us who can and do enjoy building them. It is not nearly as difficult as some
seem to believe it to be. Different techniques are required, that's all. In
many cases, a much more compact package, or an otherwise impossible project
is the result.

Bruce/N1RX




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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone? (Hand SMT---Never)

[Russell Conner]

Support your local "maker space", they will likely have the gear and knowledge 
to do SMT… and probably a bunch of young guys that have never seen HAM before 
or know the potential.


On Jul 20, 2014, at 3:04 PM, Jim Lowman  wrote:

> I have to agree with Mike, especially with the assertion about SMT components 
> being intended for robotic assembly.
> 
> Imagine all of the troubleshooting calls and e-mails that Elecraft would get 
> if Joe Ham had to populate circuit boards with these miniature components.  
> Too much room for error.
> 
> While I'd prefer a through-hole kit where soldering was required (although I 
> hate winding toroids!), like the K1 and K2, if the KX3 had even one SMT 
> device, I would not have purchased one.
> 
> 72/73 de Jim - AD6CW
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone? (Hand SMT---Never)

[Bruce Beford]

While I understand this mindset; I for one, am grateful that there are
SMT-based kits available. I enjoy building both thru-hole and SMT based
projects. In many cases, thru hole equivalents are not available for some
components. I have built many all-SMT projects, notably those offered by
KD1JV,ad formerly NJQRP (now Midnight Design Solutions), among others. 

No, they are not for everyone. But- I am glad they are offered for those of
us who can and do enjoy building them. It is not nearly as difficult as some
seem to believe it to be. Different techniques are required, that's all. In
many cases, a much more compact package, or an otherwise impossible project
is the result.

Bruce/N1RX

> I have to agree with Mike, especially with the assertion about SMT 
> components being intended for robotic assembly.

> Imagine all of the troubleshooting calls and e-mails that Elecraft would 
> get if Joe Ham had to populate circuit boards with these miniature 
> components.  Too much room for error.

> While I'd prefer a through-hole kit where soldering was required 
> (although I hate winding toroids!), like the K1 and K2, if the KX3 had 
> even one SMT device, I would not have purchased one.

> 72/73 de Jim - AD6CW



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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone? (Hand SMT---Never)

[Jim Lowman]

I have to agree with Mike, especially with the assertion about SMT 
components being intended for robotic assembly.


Imagine all of the troubleshooting calls and e-mails that Elecraft would 
get if Joe Ham had to populate circuit boards with these miniature 
components.  Too much room for error.


While I'd prefer a through-hole kit where soldering was required 
(although I hate winding toroids!), like the K1 and K2, if the KX3 had 
even one SMT device, I would not have purchased one.


72/73 de Jim - AD6CW

On 7/20/2014 9:55 AM, Mike Morrow wrote:

... perhaps it is time for Elecraft to start offering some "big boy" kits
that make full use of SMTs and other modern components.

Some would likely take exception to that strong implication that one is
not a "big boy" (whatever that means) if one rejects significant SMT hand 
application.  I've been a ham almost 50 years, commercial radiotelegraph licensed until 
standards dropped 20 years ago, and an electrical engineer
for 40 years...is that "big boy" enough?  Perhaps not...yet I'm not hesitant to state 
that hand-application of SMT components is a "half-vast" :-)  misapplication of technique 
to devices designed solely for machine placement.  It should never be required in any step of 
production of a commercial
product, even for hams.  So, to any enterprise proposing to *sell* something
that requires significant SMT hand-application, I would *not* give such a
product even a moment's consideration.  OTOH, supply the PCBs with SMTs
pre-fixed by machine as designed, and I'll likely be very interested.


Any serious ham should have a good digital 'scope, and a hot air solder
station with a syringe of solder paste (which can be bought new for less
than $100).

Well...there you go again.  I suspect most of us will just *never* qualify
as a N4OI "serious ham", for lack of meeting these canonical and doubtless
universally-recognized requirements for the title. :-)

73,
Mike / KK5F




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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Phil Wheeler]

That was my thinking, too, Don.

Phil W7OX

On 7/20/14, 10:16 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Phil,

I suspect the cost would be significantly 
greater than for the assembled board version 
that we have now.
To produce a kit, the parts would have to be 
pulled and counted, capacitors hand marked for 
values and packaged in some reasonable manner - 
that is a lot of labor cost.  Much greater than 
loading a reel of SMD components into an 
automated placement process as used in a board 
manufacturing house.


It is no wonder that we only see small projects 
in SMD format. The Steve Weber transceiver kits 
are an exception.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/20/2014 1:00 PM, Phil Wheeler wrote:
Just imagine a KX3 kitted at the parts level. I 
wonder if the price would be less than the 
current offering?


Phil W7OX





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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Phil Hystad]

On assembling versus building...

I think my hobby of woodworking has almost ripped away my soldering iron from 
my hot little hands.  I still have a solder-kit sitting on my desk ready to be 
put together (the W1 meter) and it just sits there.  All my spare time this 
summer is building white oak deck chairs for the back patio.

Aside from that comment, I do enjoy soldering but I am very glad that Elecraft 
makes the assembly kits available to we the customers.  I like this because:

 --- I personally enjoy the process of putting it together and maybe even 
more
  then using a soldering iron (I really liked my Erector Set as a kid).

 --- I get enjoyment out of marveling at the great engineering and design 
that
  goes into the kits.

 --- I learn the inner workings somewhat so that future options are not a 
scary thing
  to install.

In this, soldering in a kit has no advantages to me as I will never been 
customizing or changing the workings
of my Elecraft gear.  Even the little electronics diddling that I do at rare 
times is via a breadboard approach
and again not using a soldering iron.

My two-bits.

73, phil, K7PEH



On Jul 20, 2014, at 7:38 AM, Gil G.  wrote:

> I will second that.
> 
> I built two Weber MTRs and in many ways it was easier than through-hole, 
> except for the size. I used a soldering iron.
> “No soldering required” kits are no fun to me. I would never say that I built 
> my KX3 for instance, only assembled it.
> 
> Gil.
> --
> PGP Key: http://keskydee.com/gil.asc
> 
> On Jul 20, 2014, at 8:30 AM, N4OI - Ken  wrote:
> 
>> Back to topic... perhaps it is time for Elecraft to start offering some "big
>> boy" kits that make full use of SMTs and other modern components.  Any
>> serious ham should have a good digital 'scope, and a hot air solder station
>> with a syringe of solder paste (which can be bought new for less than $100). 
>> With the right tools, SMTs are the way to go!
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Don Wilhelm]

Phil,

I suspect the cost would be significantly greater than for the assembled 
board version that we have now.
To produce a kit, the parts would have to be pulled and counted, 
capacitors hand marked for values and packaged in some reasonable manner 
- that is a lot of labor cost.  Much greater than loading a reel of SMD 
components into an automated placement process as used in a board 
manufacturing house.


It is no wonder that we only see small projects in SMD format.  The 
Steve Weber transceiver kits are an exception.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/20/2014 1:00 PM, Phil Wheeler wrote:
Just imagine a KX3 kitted at the parts level. I wonder if the price 
would be less than the current offering?


Phil W7OX



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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Phil Wheeler]

Just imagine a KX3 kitted at the parts level. I 
wonder if the price would be less than the current 
offering?


Phil W7OX

On 7/20/14, 9:22 AM, Dave KW4M wrote:

And here's a third.

I built one of Weber's ATS-3B kits and use it on occasion, such as during
Field Day 2011.

The demand and popularity of his kits is evident as the last run of MTRs
sold out literally hours after it was released, see  here.

There is definitely a niche for SMD kits requiring more builder expertise
and involvement than simply assembling modules together.

I would love to see an up-to-date SMD transceiver kit with a mix of features
lying somewhere between the MTR and the KX3, perhaps even call it a KX2 as
others have alluded to.  My vision for such a rig would be an integrated
station, multiband (at least 80 through 15) with no band module swapping,
half the volume or less of a KX3, with internal antenna tuner and battery,
and a very simple user interface.  It would be CW, or possibly include
additional modes but only if the associated volume increase is minimal.  I
could go on and on but you get the idea.

The KX3 is an awesome radio and I am definitely not criticizing it.  There
just seems to be a huge void between it and the lower-tier rigs.  And a
solder-required SMD kit is appealing to many builders.


Gil G. wrote

I will second that.

I built two Weber MTRs and in many ways it was easier than through-hole,
except for the size. I used a soldering iron.
“No soldering required” kits are no fun to me. I would never say that I
built my KX3 for instance, only assembled it.

Gil.
--
PGP Key: http://keskydee.com/gil.asc

On Jul 20, 2014, at 8:30 AM, N4OI - Ken <
> wrote:


Back to topic... perhaps it is time for Elecraft to start offering some
"big
boy" kits that make full use of SMTs and other modern components.  Any
serious ham should have a good digital 'scope, and a hot air solder
station
with a syringe of solder paste (which can be bought new for less than
$100).
With the right tools, SMTs are the way to go!




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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone? (Hand SMT---Never)

[Mike Morrow]

> ... perhaps it is time for Elecraft to start offering some "big boy" kits
> that make full use of SMTs and other modern components.

Some would likely take exception to that strong implication that one is
not a "big boy" (whatever that means) if one rejects significant SMT hand 
application.  I've been a ham almost 50 years, commercial radiotelegraph 
licensed until standards dropped 20 years ago, and an electrical engineer
for 40 years...is that "big boy" enough?  Perhaps not...yet I'm not hesitant to 
state that hand-application of SMT components is a "half-vast" :-)  
misapplication of technique to devices designed solely for machine placement.  
It should never be required in any step of production of a commercial
product, even for hams.  So, to any enterprise proposing to *sell* something
that requires significant SMT hand-application, I would *not* give such a
product even a moment's consideration.  OTOH, supply the PCBs with SMTs
pre-fixed by machine as designed, and I'll likely be very interested.

> Any serious ham should have a good digital 'scope, and a hot air solder
> station with a syringe of solder paste (which can be bought new for less
> than $100).

Well...there you go again.  I suspect most of us will just *never* qualify
as a N4OI "serious ham", for lack of meeting these canonical and doubtless
universally-recognized requirements for the title. :-)

73,
Mike / KK5F

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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Dave KW4M]

And here's a third.

I built one of Weber's ATS-3B kits and use it on occasion, such as during 
Field Day 2011.
   
The demand and popularity of his kits is evident as the last run of MTRs
sold out literally hours after it was released, see  here.
  
 
There is definitely a niche for SMD kits requiring more builder expertise
and involvement than simply assembling modules together.

I would love to see an up-to-date SMD transceiver kit with a mix of features
lying somewhere between the MTR and the KX3, perhaps even call it a KX2 as
others have alluded to.  My vision for such a rig would be an integrated
station, multiband (at least 80 through 15) with no band module swapping,
half the volume or less of a KX3, with internal antenna tuner and battery,
and a very simple user interface.  It would be CW, or possibly include
additional modes but only if the associated volume increase is minimal.  I
could go on and on but you get the idea.

The KX3 is an awesome radio and I am definitely not criticizing it.  There
just seems to be a huge void between it and the lower-tier rigs.  And a
solder-required SMD kit is appealing to many builders.


Gil G. wrote
> I will second that.
> 
> I built two Weber MTRs and in many ways it was easier than through-hole,
> except for the size. I used a soldering iron.
> “No soldering required” kits are no fun to me. I would never say that I
> built my KX3 for instance, only assembled it.
> 
> Gil.
> --
> PGP Key: http://keskydee.com/gil.asc
> 
> On Jul 20, 2014, at 8:30 AM, N4OI - Ken <

> kenst@

> > wrote:
> 
>> Back to topic... perhaps it is time for Elecraft to start offering some
>> "big
>> boy" kits that make full use of SMTs and other modern components.  Any
>> serious ham should have a good digital 'scope, and a hot air solder
>> station
>> with a syringe of solder paste (which can be bought new for less than
>> $100). 
>> With the right tools, SMTs are the way to go!
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Gil G.]

LOL, yes, size is definitely an issue. I use glasses, a magnifying lens and 
tweezers. You do not have to cut leads that end up everywhere though. It is 
precise work, no doubt, especially on the ICs. I know in ten or fifteen years I 
may not be able to see those parts anymore. I like SMT though, didn’t think I 
would. With good eyes and a steady hand, anyone can do it.

Gil.
--
PGP Key: http://keskydee.com/gil.asc

On Jul 20, 2014, at 11:37 AM, Phil Wheeler  wrote:

> Not all "serious hams" would agree with you. In my first SMT effort I was 
> very careful but lost one part. Looked all over for it. Two days later I 
> found it in my shoe.

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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Ray Sills]

And, not all hams are able to have a workbench or shack to house the  
needed gear.  Sometimes, things like that intervene.  While it would  
be nice to be able to build, not everyone can, even if they have the  
desire and experience.  Doesn't mean they aren't "serious" about ham  
radio.


73 de Ray
K2ULR
KX3 #211






On Jul 20, 2014, at 11:37 AM, Phil Wheeler wrote:

Not all "serious hams" would agree with you. In my first SMT effort  
I was very careful but lost one part. Looked all over for it. Two  
days later I found it in my shoe.


I have paste, hot air gun, hot plate -- all the goodies -- but I try  
to avoid using them, a matter of mental stress -- and, to be honest,  
age. Something as complex as a K1 would be a bit much. I prefer the  
pre-mounted SMT component kits, if there are to be SMTs.


Phil W7OX

On 7/20/14, 5:30 AM, N4OI - Ken wrote:

Any
serious ham should have a good digital 'scope, and a hot air solder  
station
with a syringe of solder paste (which can be bought new for less  
than $100).

With the right tools, SMTs are the way to go!

73 ES GOD BLESS U ES URS DE KEN N4OI




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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Phil Wheeler]

Not all "serious hams" would agree with you. In my 
first SMT effort I was very careful but lost one 
part. Looked all over for it. Two days later I 
found it in my shoe.


I have paste, hot air gun, hot plate -- all the 
goodies -- but I try to avoid using them, a matter 
of mental stress -- and, to be honest, age. 
Something as complex as a K1 would be a bit much. 
I prefer the pre-mounted SMT component kits, if 
there are to be SMTs.


Phil W7OX

On 7/20/14, 5:30 AM, N4OI - Ken wrote:

Any
serious ham should have a good digital 'scope, and a hot air solder station
with a syringe of solder paste (which can be bought new for less than $100).
With the right tools, SMTs are the way to go!

73 ES GOD BLESS U ES URS DE KEN N4OI




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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Gil G.]

I will second that.

I built two Weber MTRs and in many ways it was easier than through-hole, except 
for the size. I used a soldering iron.
“No soldering required” kits are no fun to me. I would never say that I built 
my KX3 for instance, only assembled it.

Gil.
--
PGP Key: http://keskydee.com/gil.asc

On Jul 20, 2014, at 8:30 AM, N4OI - Ken  wrote:

> Back to topic... perhaps it is time for Elecraft to start offering some "big
> boy" kits that make full use of SMTs and other modern components.  Any
> serious ham should have a good digital 'scope, and a hot air solder station
> with a syringe of solder paste (which can be bought new for less than $100). 
> With the right tools, SMTs are the way to go!

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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[N4OI - Ken]

I was reminded how capable the K1 is a couple weeks ago at a beach house at
Seabrook Island, SC...  I broke away from family activities for just a
couple hours one night and made solid K1 DX QSOs with Ukraine, Sweden, Italy
and others using just a lightweight 20 meter dipole tied to the corner of
the house and then slung over a big live oak branch.   Spanish moss hanging
on the wire overlooking about 15 square miles of salt marsh... Priceless!

Back to topic... perhaps it is time for Elecraft to start offering some "big
boy" kits that make full use of SMTs and other modern components.  Any
serious ham should have a good digital 'scope, and a hot air solder station
with a syringe of solder paste (which can be bought new for less than $100). 
With the right tools, SMTs are the way to go!

There is a lot of "real estate" available in the K1 enclosure; an updated
4-band board with some cool, new features to retrofit the K1 would be a
great first Elecraft "big boy" kit offering!  (I expect that if Elecraft
takes a pass on this opportunity, some enterprising Internet mom 'n pop shop
will step in.)

73 ES GOD BLESS U ES URS DE KEN N4OI



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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Humberto]

Hi Wayne, hi K1 friends,

I followed the discussion about the 4 band module and the problems.
I can imagine to design a replacement board with four or even more 
bands in a way, that the problems with the alignment and the components
will be solved. I do not know, if the dialogue to the PIC was ever published
???
Because a board needs to do that dialogue for the bands that are provided.
I would redesign that board and offer it to the "K1 family" as a kit with 
presoldered smd and possibly with ready wound coils so that the handling
for the user could be easier ?

What do you think.. worth thinking about ???

73
Herbert
CT2IJD



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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Humberto]

Hi Wayne, hi K1 friends,

I followed the discussion about the 4 band module and the problems.
I can imagine to design a replacement board with four or even more 
bands in a way, that the problems with the alignment and the components
will be solved. I do not know, if the dialogue to the PIC was ever published
???
Because a board needs to do that dialogue for the bands that are provided.
I would redesign that board and offer it to the "K1 family" as a kit with 
presoldered smd and possibly with ready wound coils so that the handling
for the user could be easier ?

What do you think.. worth thinking about ???

73
Herbert
CT2IJD





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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[David Gilbert]

The only science I can think of has to do with propagation.  It seems to 
me that 20m/40m would give the best overall opportunity for use hour by 
hour over the course of a full sunspot cycle. Everything else pretty 
much just boils down to personal preference or available space for antennas.


73,
Dave   AB7E




On 7/17/2014 11:14 AM, Phil Hystad wrote:

I wonder if there is a science behind the logic in which two bands to choose to 
go together.

73, phil, K7PEH





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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[mbyrd22]

I am sad about the recent turn of events but not surprised. I bought the K1-2 
band right after it was available with an extra 2 band board. When the 4 band 
board was introduced, I jumped on that purchase. I will probably buy a few of 
the 2 band boards before they are gone. I don't want any portable style radio 
as that's not the way I operate.

I have used the K1-4 for several years and really love everything about it. I 
have earned DXCC on 40 meters with this radio so it does work well. I use an 
outboard SCAP filter that really makes a huge difference on receive.

I recently retired and did some updating/repair on my K1. I plan to operate 
this radio a lot more in the future.

Mike, AC4UR
http://sunbyrdpress.blogspot.com/p/amateur-radio.html

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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Gil G.]

On Thu, 2014-07-17 at 11:14 -0700, Phil Hystad wrote:
> And, here I was planning to get a 4-band K1 this fall.  Yes, real Bummer.

I was about to buy one, sold my first, what a mistake!
I vote for a redesign as well!

Gil.

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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Wayne Burdick]

Hi Mike,

I appreciate your thoughts on the K1. You're right -- it has a much simpler 
user interface than the KX3, and lower receive-mode current drain.

But, regarding size and weight:  The KX3 weighs only slightly more than the K1 
(1.5 vs. 1.4 lbs), and the KX3 is roughly 30% smaller than the K1 (1.7 x 3.4 x 
7.4" vs. 2.2 x 5.2 x 5.6"). New technology and all that

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Jul 17, 2014, at 12:54 PM, Mike Morrow  wrote:

> ...The K1 is much lighter, less bulky, much lower power consumption, and is 
> incredibly
> easier to fully master than the KX3 is at even the neophyte level.




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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Mike Morrow]

Jessie wrote:

> I'll have to give mine a close look for mechanical feasibility when I 
> get home.

It is not feasible.

Mike / KK5F
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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Mike Morrow]

Don wrote:

>The K1 can remember the frequency offset settings for 6 bands...

The K1 remembers the frequency display calibration settings (OFS)
for all *nine* HF bands between 160m and 10m (60m is excluded),
and automatically uses the one previously stored for a particular
band when that band gets assigned to a filter board's b1 or b2.  

> ...so having 3 2-band boards is quite practical.  You get to
> choose which 2 bands go together on one board for most of your
> operating pleasure.

It is worth noting that a small problem will arise if multiple
KFL1-2 boards are built that duplicate one of the bands...such
as a board for 40/20 and a board for 40/15, both for the same K1.
The K1 MCU can remember only *one* frequency display calibration
setting per band.  In the example I use above, one of those two
boards will have some calibration error on 40m unless the 40m
heterodyne crystal frequencies of both filter boards are very
nearly the same frequency.  They'll likely be close enough.

Mike / KK5F
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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Jessie Oberreuter]

 Here's another thought that perhaps one of us could put together: 
give up the internal battery space for a considerably larger filter board 
that could be used to allow room for additional "2 band" style filters 
that don't share components (and, thus, don't need high-tolerance parts). 
No new parts would be needed; the existing 2-band parts kits, and the 
controller from the 4-band board would serve.
 This would also open the door for selecting a completely arbitrary 
set of four bands (eg 15/20/40/80) as the filters would, again, be 
completely independent of each other.
 I'll have to give mine a close look for mechanical feasibility when I 
get home.  -kb7psg




On Thu, 17 Jul 2014, Wayne Burdick wrote:

The 4-band module requires extremely low-temperature-coefficient trimmer 
capacitors because of its narrow-band pre-mix and RF band-pass filters. 
The last source for these exotic trimmers dried up recently. A redesign 
using higher-TC trimmers might be possible, but the filters would end up 
being triple-tuned, which would force the use of SMD components 
throughout, and tuning the filters would then be very difficult without 
a spectrum analyzer.


Sales volume for the K1 has decreased in recent years due to the KX1 
(which is smaller and has a DDS VFO), and the KX3 (which covers all 
bands, all modes, with up to 12 W output and has a much more capable 
auto tuner, nicer user interface, etc.). So the cost of a redesign 
wouldn't be recovered.


That said, for the time being we're continuing to offer the two-band 
version and the other options (KAT1 ATU, KBT1 battery pack, etc.). The 
K1 is one of our "full" kits, and has a bit of a fan club of its own.


We'll update the website to reflect the change in option availability.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Mike Morrow]

Wayne wrote:

> The 4-band module requires extremely low-temperature-coefficient
> trimmer capacitors because of its narrow-band pre-mix and RF band-pass
> filters. The last source for these exotic trimmers dried up recently.

If all the other parts of the KFL1-4 were still stocked, perhaps those
original white ceramic trimmer capacitors could be used again.  I used
my KFL1-4 for two years with those because I did not want to pull and
rebuild the KFL1-4 I built in 2001 after the blue trimmers were made
available.  Yes, I did need to re-align my KFL1-4 about every six months
when the original white capacitors were still in place.

This would be an unfortunate compromise, but I'd rather have even the
original KFL1-4 with those problematic trimmers than use two KFL1-2
filters to get four bands.  I used two KFL1-2 boards (40/20m and 30/15m)
prior to the availability of the KFL1-4.

> Sales volume for the K1 has decreased in recent years due to the KX1
> (which is smaller and has a DDS VFO)...

I greatly prefer the performance and physical form of the K1 over that
of the KX1.  I never bought the BS that some KX1 owners slung around
after KX1 introduction that the KX1 "replaced" the K1.  Did it??  Try
using that KX1 on 15 or 17 meters.  Even for backpacking, the K1 is a
far better radio to cart along if ham CW band RF performance is valued.
The K1 is also less quirky to build than a 80/40/30/20m full-house KX1.

> ...and the KX3...

I believe that there are a number of advantages of the K1 over the KX3
when the extreme sophistication of the KX3 is not required.  The K1 is
much lighter, less bulky, much lower power consumption, and is incredibly
easier to fully master than the KX3 is at even the neophyte level.

I purchased the K1 after seeing its introduction at Dayton 2000, and then
waited the six months for delivery of #175 in November 2000.  After almost
14 years it remains my favorite and most utilized HF ham rig owned in 46
years as a ham.  It is a very very good radio, and I greatly admire Wayne's
design for this classic QRP rig.  Thanks, Wayne.

> So the cost of a redesign wouldn't be recovered.

I've always thought that the K1-line would be the first to be discontinued.
I am pleasantly surprised that the *start* of that is happening *only* now.
It was a very good run for a great QRP radio...those 14 years!  If you don't
have one, get one with a KFL1-2 is still available.

73,
Mike / KK5F
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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Bruce Beford]

Thanks for taking the time to reply with the details, Wayne. It's a shame. I
(and many others) feel the K1 has some advantages over the KX1, such as the
analog VFO, higher output power, and 4-pole filtering. It's internal antenna
matching unit also offers more tuning range than the KX1. I have also built
a 160m/80m 2 band board for mine. 

I have built and own all the Elecraft rigs, and each has provided great
enjoyment, each has it's strong points.

Time marches own, it would be wonderful if a 4-band redesign solution could
be found, using modern components. Perhaps a pre-built, pre-tuned SMD based
board. But, I imagine the potential sales volume would not justify the
costs. Too bad.

Bruce/N1RX

-Original Message-
From: Wayne Burdick [mailto:n...@elecraft.com] 
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 2:43 PM
To: Bruce Beford
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: K1-4 4 band version gone?

Hi Bruce,

The 4-band module requires extremely low-temperature-coefficient trimmer
capacitors because of its narrow-band pre-mix and RF band-pass filters. The
last source for these exotic trimmers dried up recently. A redesign using
higher-TC trimmers might be possible, but the filters would end up being
triple-tuned, which would force the use of SMD components throughout, and
tuning the filters would then be very difficult without a spectrum analyzer.


Sales volume for the K1 has decreased in recent years due to the KX1 (which
is smaller and has a DDS VFO), and the KX3 (which covers all bands, all
modes, with up to 12 W output and has a much more capable auto tuner, nicer
user interface, etc.). So the cost of a redesign wouldn't be recovered.

That said, for the time being we're continuing to offer the two-band version
and the other options (KAT1 ATU, KBT1 battery pack, etc.). The K1 is one of
our "full" kits, and has a bit of a fan club of its own.

We'll update the website to reflect the change in option availability.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Jul 17, 2014, at 4:13 AM, "Bruce Beford"  wrote:

> All this talk about the K1 backlight led me to look back at the K1 order
> page. There is no option for a 4-band version, nor for the KFL1-4 4-band
> filter module itself. Is this an oversight, or has the 4-band board been
> discontinued? If so, when and why? Also if so, then the K1 description
page
> should be edited to remove reference to the "new" 4 band board... or at
> least explain that it is no longer available.
> 
> Bruce
> N1RX






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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Don Wilhelm]

The K1 can remember the frequency offset settings for 6 bands, so having 
3 2-band boards is quite practical.  You get to choose which 2 bands go 
together on one board for most of your operating pleasure.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/17/2014 2:14 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:

And, here I was planning to get a 4-band K1 this fall.  Yes, real Bummer.

So, I figure that I could do one of the following:

  (1)Buy THREE 2-band K1 radios (saves on interchanging other bands).

  (2)Buy the Two band option board and get along with 4 bands.

  (3)Stick with just a 2-band K1.

I am going with the obvious, option (1).  OK, just kidding.  Option (2)  But at 
first I am starting just with Option (1).  I wonder if there is a science 
behind the logic in which two bands to choose to go together.




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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[John Cooper]

What is the crucial part that caused this? Inquiring minds wanna know.

WT5Y


Sent from my Cricket smartphone

 Original message 
From: EricJ  
Date: 07/17/2014  13:32  (GMT-06:00) 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone? 
 
Bad news...for those who don't have one.

The K1-4 was my introduction to both Elecraft and purpose-built QRP 
rigs. It's easily in the top 3 favorite radios I have owned in half a 
century. I think Gil called it a cute mini K2 in the link below, and 
that's a pretty good description. It's big enough to operate like a 
"real" radio in the shack. It's small enough to take anywhere. It tunes 
smoothly and sounds exceptionally good. It has everything you need for 
CW and nothing you don't.

The KX1 isn't a good substitute for the K1, in my opinion. It's a very 
specialized rig with lots of compromises for those who need minimum size 
and weight. After the initial fun of a new rig, my KX1 has been sitting 
on a shelf with very little use. Whenever I grab it to go camping, I 
pack the K1 as well "just in case". Then I end up using the K1 the 
entire trip. If I was a backpacker, the roles would probably be 
reversed, though.

Anyway, re: K1-4. I got mine, and I'm KEEPING it. (hi)

Eric
KE6US







On 7/17/2014 8:55 AM, Gil G. wrote:
> I emailed Elecraft about it and they said the 4-band module is unlikely to 
> come back.
>
> http://radiopreppers.com/index.php/topic,824.0.html
>
> Gil.
> --
> PGP Key: http://keskydee.com/gil.asc
>
> On Jul 17, 2014, at 11:47 AM, Phil Wheeler  wrote:
>
>> needs an edit -- unless lack of a 4-band module is a temporary situation. 
>> Perhaps Elecraft will clarify when their day begins soon.
> __
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>
>

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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Wayne Burdick]

Hi Bruce,

The 4-band module requires extremely low-temperature-coefficient trimmer 
capacitors because of its narrow-band pre-mix and RF band-pass filters. The 
last source for these exotic trimmers dried up recently. A redesign using 
higher-TC trimmers might be possible, but the filters would end up being 
triple-tuned, which would force the use of SMD components throughout, and 
tuning the filters would then be very difficult without a spectrum analyzer. 

Sales volume for the K1 has decreased in recent years due to the KX1 (which is 
smaller and has a DDS VFO), and the KX3 (which covers all bands, all modes, 
with up to 12 W output and has a much more capable auto tuner, nicer user 
interface, etc.). So the cost of a redesign wouldn't be recovered.

That said, for the time being we're continuing to offer the two-band version 
and the other options (KAT1 ATU, KBT1 battery pack, etc.). The K1 is one of our 
"full" kits, and has a bit of a fan club of its own.

We'll update the website to reflect the change in option availability.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Jul 17, 2014, at 4:13 AM, "Bruce Beford"  wrote:

> All this talk about the K1 backlight led me to look back at the K1 order
> page. There is no option for a 4-band version, nor for the KFL1-4 4-band
> filter module itself. Is this an oversight, or has the 4-band board been
> discontinued? If so, when and why? Also if so, then the K1 description page
> should be edited to remove reference to the "new" 4 band board... or at
> least explain that it is no longer available.
> 
> Bruce
> N1RX



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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Don Wilhelm]

The part that has become unavailable is the blue trimmer capacitors that 
are used for tuning the bandpass filters.  That does *not* spell demise 
of the K1, but only the 4 band board.


Yes, sorry that it is gone, but the K1 with a 2 band board and an extra 
2 band board will give you 4 band capability - and you can mix and match 
the 4 bands in any combination of 2 bands that you want. In other words, 
the choices are more flexible than with the 4 band board.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 7/17/2014 1:46 PM, Phil Wheeler wrote:
Bummer -- and Lisa's exact words from that link were more definite and 
final:


/The 4-band board was discontinued due to a part availability issue 
that was crucial to the functionality of the KF1-4. So no, it will not 
be coming back sorry to say./




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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[EricJ]

Bad news...for those who don't have one.

The K1-4 was my introduction to both Elecraft and purpose-built QRP 
rigs. It's easily in the top 3 favorite radios I have owned in half a 
century. I think Gil called it a cute mini K2 in the link below, and 
that's a pretty good description. It's big enough to operate like a 
"real" radio in the shack. It's small enough to take anywhere. It tunes 
smoothly and sounds exceptionally good. It has everything you need for 
CW and nothing you don't.


The KX1 isn't a good substitute for the K1, in my opinion. It's a very 
specialized rig with lots of compromises for those who need minimum size 
and weight. After the initial fun of a new rig, my KX1 has been sitting 
on a shelf with very little use. Whenever I grab it to go camping, I 
pack the K1 as well "just in case". Then I end up using the K1 the 
entire trip. If I was a backpacker, the roles would probably be 
reversed, though.


Anyway, re: K1-4. I got mine, and I'm KEEPING it. (hi)

Eric
KE6US







On 7/17/2014 8:55 AM, Gil G. wrote:

I emailed Elecraft about it and they said the 4-band module is unlikely to come 
back.

http://radiopreppers.com/index.php/topic,824.0.html

Gil.
--
PGP Key: http://keskydee.com/gil.asc

On Jul 17, 2014, at 11:47 AM, Phil Wheeler  wrote:


needs an edit -- unless lack of a 4-band module is a temporary situation. 
Perhaps Elecraft will clarify when their day begins soon.

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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Phil Hystad]

And, here I was planning to get a 4-band K1 this fall.  Yes, real Bummer.

So, I figure that I could do one of the following:

 (1)Buy THREE 2-band K1 radios (saves on interchanging other bands).

 (2)Buy the Two band option board and get along with 4 bands.

 (3)Stick with just a 2-band K1.

I am going with the obvious, option (1).  OK, just kidding.  Option (2)  But at 
first I am starting just with Option (1).  I wonder if there is a science 
behind the logic in which two bands to choose to go together.

73, phil, K7PEH


On Jul 17, 2014, at 10:46 AM, Phil Wheeler  wrote:

> Bummer -- and Lisa's exact words from that link were more definite and final:
> 
> /The 4-band board was discontinued due to a part availability issue that was 
> crucial to the functionality of the KF1-4. So no, it will not be coming back 
> sorry to say./
> 
> The 4-band K1 is a really nice, small QRP radio -- with 5 Watts. Definitely a 
> better CW receiver than the KX1 (4-pole filter, plenty of audio, etc.) and a 
> more capable transmitter. Of course, not the freq coverage of the KX1 and not 
> as tiny or trail friendly, but a very nice rig.
> 
> If I had to sell my KX1 or my K1 it would be the KX1. My K1 would make a 
> capable 40-30-20-15 qrp CW based station, particularly after adding one of my 
> audio filters.  KX3 is, of course, a far better option and I have one; but it 
> is larger and much more expensive -- plus it's not a melt solder and wind 
> toroid kit.
> 
> 73, Phil
> 
> On 7/17/14, 8:55 AM, Gil G. wrote:
>> I emailed Elecraft about it and they said the 4-band module is unlikely to 
>> come back.
>> 
>> http://radiopreppers.com/index.php/topic,824.0.html
>> 
>> Gil.
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Phil Wheeler]

Bummer -- and Lisa's exact words from that link 
were more definite and final:


/The 4-band board was discontinued due to a part 
availability issue that was crucial to the 
functionality of the KF1-4. So no, it will not be 
coming back sorry to say./


The 4-band K1 is a really nice, small QRP radio -- 
with 5 Watts. Definitely a better CW receiver than 
the KX1 (4-pole filter, plenty of audio, etc.) and 
a more capable transmitter. Of course, not the 
freq coverage of the KX1 and not as tiny or trail 
friendly, but a very nice rig.


If I had to sell my KX1 or my K1 it would be the 
KX1. My K1 would make a capable 40-30-20-15 qrp CW 
based station, particularly after adding one of my 
audio filters.  KX3 is, of course, a far better 
option and I have one; but it is larger and much 
more expensive -- plus it's not a melt solder and 
wind toroid kit.


73, Phil

On 7/17/14, 8:55 AM, Gil G. wrote:

I emailed Elecraft about it and they said the 4-band module is unlikely to come 
back.

http://radiopreppers.com/index.php/topic,824.0.html

Gil.


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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Bruce Beford]

This is sad news indeed. I have built a few K1s, and repaired a few for
others. The 4 band board made for a very capable rig, without the swapping
that the 2 band version requires. A redesign/reintroduction would be nice,
but I imagine it's primarily a business decision, rather than strictly an
engineering one.
-Bruce/ N1RX

> I emailed Elecraft about it and they said the 4-band module is unlikely to
> come back.
> http://radiopreppers.com/index.php/topic,824.0.html
>Gil.



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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Gil G.]

I emailed Elecraft about it and they said the 4-band module is unlikely to come 
back.

http://radiopreppers.com/index.php/topic,824.0.html

Gil.
--
PGP Key: http://keskydee.com/gil.asc

On Jul 17, 2014, at 11:47 AM, Phil Wheeler  wrote:

> needs an edit -- unless lack of a 4-band module is a temporary situation. 
> Perhaps Elecraft will clarify when their day begins soon.

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Re: [Elecraft] K1-4 4 band version gone?

[Phil Wheeler]

Yes, Bruce, it looks like this:


 /T//he K1...A compact, high-performance CW
 rig that _you_ can build./

//

/HF operation is more fun than ever these 
days--five watts is all you need to work worldwide 
DX. That's why we've packed up to four bands into 
our affordable, easy-to-build K1-4 transceiver. 
You can order the K1 as either a four-band radio 
*(K1-4)* or a two-band radio *(K1-2)*.  The new 
four-band K1-4 covers 40, 30, 20, and either 17 or 
15 meters. (All band parts are supplied with the 
kit and 17 or 15M are chosen as the last band at 
build time.) You can also upgrade the K1-2 to a 
K1-4 by purchasing the four-band KFL1-4  module 
and replacing the KFL1-2 in your original K1-2. 
The KFL1-2 two band module covers your choice of 
two bands (80, 40, 30 20, 17 and 15 meters 
available). Combining a K1-4 with an extra KFL1-2 
band module on 80 + (15 or 17M) gives you all six 
bands on your K1! Both module types simply plug in 
to the K1's main board, internally, and you can 
swap either type in at any time./



needs an edit -- unless lack of a 4-band module is 
a temporary situation. Perhaps Elecraft will 
clarify when their day begins soon.


Phil W7OX

On 7/17/14, 4:13 AM, Bruce Beford wrote:

All this talk about the K1 backlight led me to look back at the K1 order
page. There is no option for a 4-band version, nor for the KFL1-4 4-band
filter module itself. Is this an oversight, or has the 4-band board been
discontinued? If so, when and why? Also if so, then the K1 description page
should be edited to remove reference to the "new" 4 band board... or at
least explain that it is no longer available.

Bruce
N1RX


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