Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
When I tried measuring in the negative lead, I found zero amps. The problem is that the grounding system in my station setup bypasses the negative lead, probably in several ways, letting me power the K3 up with no connection to the negative power supply lead at all. Cheers - Bill, AE6JV On 10/18/13 at 4:51 PM, j...@audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown) wrote: If you're talking about me, the false readings I was getting from the Watts Up meter were in the range of 40 mA, and a Fluke measured 4 mA in the positive lead. There may, however, be something happening on the negative lead that is causing the false readings. I don't have a fixture yet to put a Fluke there. I should do that. --- Bill Frantz| Concurrency is hard. 12 out | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | 10 programmers get it wrong. | 16345 Englewood Ave www.pwpconsult.com |- Jeff Frantz | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
My Fluke 73 reads 4.3mA on the 300mA range and 40mA on the 10A range, which just goes to show that you can't trust the reading on an instrument when the 'full scale' value is so very much higher than the current that you are trying to measure. 73 Stephen G4SJP On 19 October 2013 07:45, Bill Frantz fra...@pwpconsult.com wrote: When I tried measuring in the negative lead, I found zero amps. The problem is that the grounding system in my station setup bypasses the negative lead, probably in several ways, letting me power the K3 up with no connection to the negative power supply lead at all. Cheers - Bill, AE6JV On 10/18/13 at 4:51 PM, j...@audiosystemsgroup.com (Jim Brown) wrote: If you're talking about me, the false readings I was getting from the Watts Up meter were in the range of 40 mA, and a Fluke measured 4 mA in the positive lead. There may, however, be something happening on the negative lead that is causing the false readings. I don't have a fixture yet to put a Fluke there. I should do that. --**--** --- Bill Frantz| Concurrency is hard. 12 out | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | 10 programmers get it wrong. | 16345 Englewood Ave www.pwpconsult.com |- Jeff Frantz | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __**__**__ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/**mailman/listinfo/elecrafthttp://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.**htmhttp://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:elecr...@mailman.qth.**net Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
G'morning, all: To correct my previous posting, I re-measured the current in the pos(+) lead again... correctly this time. On a Triplett 2200 DMM, a Radio Shack 22-174B, and a Fluke 77, the reading is 40-42ma. This is with the KPA3 installed and connected. I have not opened up the K3 to disconnect the KPA3, but other postings suggest that the parasitic draw would significantly drop if I did. 73, Ken K3IU K3 #202 ~~ On 10/16/2013 5:05 PM, Ken K3IU wrote: Same here but only about 31ma on a Triplett 2202 DMM on K3 s/n 202. 73, Ken K3IU ~~~ On 10/16/2013 5:01 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: I disconnected everything from my K3 except the power cable and the drain when off remains at 38mA. I don't have the time right now to pull the PA module, but that sounds like the next best possible culprit. I had never noticed the parasitic drain because my station power supply is switched off when I leave the shack. 73, Ron AC7AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
G'morning, Dave: My purpose in the posting below was to correct an error I had made earlier. You are probably not missing anything, but IMHO this subject is far more germane to the purpose of this reflector than many postings which result in extraordinarily long lives here. 73, Ken K3IU ~~ On 10/19/2013 7:22 AM, Dave Wright wrote: Maybe I'm missing something here, and I'm not trying to be a jerk, but we're talking about 40ma. Most electronic devices these days don't use a hard power down, but rather a soft power-off state in order to maintain settings/calibration, allow for rapid startup/remote control usage, etc. Elecraft has stated that the K3 will draw a minimal amount of power when shutdown; although I don't recall that they have stated what that amount is; so it should be no surprise that the K3 is drawing power when shutoff. It sure seems like there is a lot of traffic about something can be solved simply by pulling the plug if you're worried about breaking the bank over 40ma. So, what am I missing? Dave K3DCW Real radio bounces off the sky On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Ken K3IU kenk...@cox.net mailto:kenk...@cox.net wrote: G'morning, all: To correct my previous posting, I re-measured the current in the pos(+) lead again... correctly this time. On a Triplett 2200 DMM, a Radio Shack 22-174B, and a Fluke 77, the reading is 40-42ma. This is with the KPA3 installed and connected. I have not opened up the K3 to disconnect the KPA3, but other postings suggest that the parasitic draw would significantly drop if I did. 73, Ken K3IU K3 #202 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
On 10/18/2013 11:45 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: When I tried measuring in the negative lead, I found zero amps. The problem is that the grounding system in my station setup bypasses the negative lead, probably in several ways, letting me power the K3 up with no connection to the negative power supply lead at all. That suggests that the negative terminal is bonded to the chassis in your DC power supply. There are some good reasons to NOT do that, and many power supplies are built with DC- not bonded to the chassis. It also suggests that all the gear in your station is properly bonded together. With all equipment bonded together, one might think that the bonding could carry DC-, and no black wire was needed. That's wrong -- while DC follows Ohm's Law, AC current (and RF) finds the path of lowest impedance, which includes the loop inductance of a path. So if there were no black wire, RF would couple into the resulting loop, putting it on the red wire. What we fail to realize is that parallel wire cable (like the red/black glorified zip cord we use for power, and that is sold as speaker cable) is a sitting duck for RF. Far better to use twisted pair, which has about 30 dB better RF rejection. I've fixed a lot of RFI to audio system problems by replacing that zip cord with twisted pair. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
Dave, The reason this matters is that because Wayne comes from the world of QRP and backpacking, he has always worked very hard to minimize the current drain on a battery that you have lugged up a mountain (or charged from solar panels at home). That's one benefit of owning an Elecraft radio. I have my SO2R station powered from batteries that are solar charged, with the addition of an AC charger for contest weekends. All that wiring is behind an operating desk that is attached to the wall. Pulling the plug on the radios sounds simple, but it means adding a switch to the DC power line of each radio, in which a design parameter is to minimize the voltage drop with a 20A load. That means a beefy relay in series with each radio, and a switch to control it. Now that I know it's a 4mA drain, I probably won't bother. with 40 mA per radio, I would. :) And the relay probably draws 50-100 mA when the radios are on. 73, Jim K9YC On 10/19/2013 4:40 AM, Ken Wagner K3IU wrote: G'morning, Dave: My purpose in the posting below was to correct an error I had made earlier. You are probably not missing anything, but IMHO this subject is far more germane to the purpose of this reflector than many postings which result in extraordinarily long lives here. 73, Ken K3IU ~~ On 10/19/203 7:22 AM, Dave Wright wrote: Maybe I'm missing something here, and I'm not trying to be a jerk, but we're talking about 40ma. Most electronic devices these days don't use a hard power down, but rather a soft power-off state in order to maintain settings/calibration, allow for rapid startup/remote control usage, etc. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
Of course there are car battery terminal switches which can handle 100+ amps. They are not expensive. They have insignificant voltage drop. They draw zero current on or off. It used to be that having a master power switch for a station was considered a necessity. Low voltage stuff these days has somewhat bent that rule. It still seems like a good idea. 73 de Brian/K3KO On 10/19/2013 7:11 AM, Jim Brown wrote: Dave, The reason this matters is that because Wayne comes from the world of QRP and backpacking, he has always worked very hard to minimize the current drain on a battery that you have lugged up a mountain (or charged from solar panels at home). That's one benefit of owning an Elecraft radio. I have my SO2R station powered from batteries that are solar charged, with the addition of an AC charger for contest weekends. All that wiring is behind an operating desk that is attached to the wall. Pulling the plug on the radios sounds simple, but it means adding a switch to the DC power line of each radio, in which a design parameter is to minimize the voltage drop with a 20A load. That means a beefy relay in series with each radio, and a switch to control it. Now that I know it's a 4mA drain, I probably won't bother. with 40 mA per radio, I would. :) And the relay probably draws 50-100 mA when the radios are on. 73, Jim K9YC On 10/19/2013 4:40 AM, Ken Wagner K3IU wrote: G'morning, Dave: My purpose in the posting below was to correct an error I had made earlier. You are probably not missing anything, but IMHO this subject is far more germane to the purpose of this reflector than many postings which result in extraordinarily long lives here. 73, Ken K3IU ~~ On 10/19/203 7:22 AM, Dave Wright wrote: Maybe I'm missing something here, and I'm not trying to be a jerk, but we're talking about 40ma. Most electronic devices these days don't use a hard power down, but rather a soft power-off state in order to maintain settings/calibration, allow for rapid startup/remote control usage, etc. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.2242 / Virus Database: 3222/6262 - Release Date: 10/18/13 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
Yes, that was my mistake (mentally moving the decimal point!) However, several others including me have measured a real parasitic drain of almost 40 mA (38 mA in my case) that is produced by the KPA3. I disconnected the power to the KPA3 at the circuit breaker and the drain dropped to virtually zero. The measurement was made by placing an ammeter in the positive lead from the power supply. Nothing at all connected to the K3 except for the power cable. It's not an issue to me because I switch off the dc supply when leaving the shack, but there are a significant number of Hams who run from batteries and solar panels even at home. 40 mA can be very significant to them if the rig is left connected to the battery. 73 Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 4:52 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off On 10/18/2013 2:57 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: That only explains the apparent drain of several amperes Jim noticed. If you're talking about me, the false readings I was getting from the Watts Up meter were in the range of 40 mA, and a Fluke measured 4 mA in the positive lead. There may, however, be something happening on the negative lead that is causing the false readings. I don't have a fixture yet to put a Fluke there. I should do that. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
Ron, I'm not sure if your posting was directed at me or not, but I didn't mentally move the decimal point :-) It was a fundamental limitation of the (good, I thought) DMM I was using. It just goes to show that you can't always believe what your measuring instrument is telling you, as I tell my students frequently! 73, Stephen G4SJP On 19 October 2013 18:24, Ron D'Eau Claire r...@cobi.biz wrote: Yes, that was my mistake (mentally moving the decimal point!) However, several others including me have measured a real parasitic drain of almost 40 mA (38 mA in my case) that is produced by the KPA3. I disconnected the power to the KPA3 at the circuit breaker and the drain dropped to virtually zero. The measurement was made by placing an ammeter in the positive lead from the power supply. Nothing at all connected to the K3 except for the power cable. It's not an issue to me because I switch off the dc supply when leaving the shack, but there are a significant number of Hams who run from batteries and solar panels even at home. 40 mA can be very significant to them if the rig is left connected to the battery. 73 Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 4:52 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off On 10/18/2013 2:57 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: That only explains the apparent drain of several amperes Jim noticed. If you're talking about me, the false readings I was getting from the Watts Up meter were in the range of 40 mA, and a Fluke measured 4 mA in the positive lead. There may, however, be something happening on the negative lead that is causing the false readings. I don't have a fixture yet to put a Fluke there. I should do that. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
Stephen, when I wrote my mistake I meant it was my mistake, not Jim's. I was responding to Jim whose message I appended to my reply. FYI, my test setup: 1) K3 disconnected from *everything* including the station ground. 2) Plugged in the two wires from my power supply with the DMM inserted in series with the positive lead. 3) DMM reads 0 mA. Turn on the power supply. Did not turn K3 on. DMM reads 38 mA. 4) Disconnected lead to KPA3 circuit breaker in K3. Current dropped to about 1 mA (fixed range on the DMM and I didn't bother to change that). Wayne did not specify what he meant by a few mA being normal when the K3 is off, but in my case it's 38 mA with KPA3 installed and almost nothing with it disconnected. 73, Ron AC7AC -Original Message- Ron, I'm not sure if your posting was directed at me or not, but I didn't mentally move the decimal point :-) It was a fundamental limitation of the (good, I thought) DMM I was using. It just goes to show that you can't always believe what your measuring instrument is telling you, as I tell my students frequently! 73, Stephen G4SJP __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
On 10/19/2013 1:40 AM, Stephen Prior wrote: My Fluke 73 reads 4.3mA on the 300mA range and 40mA on the 10A range, which just goes to show that you can't trust the reading on an instrument when the 'full scale' value is so very much higher than the current that you are trying to measure. U.S. Federal Communications Commission rules for broadcast station transmitters (sec. 73.1215) require that the full scale range of a linear meter be no more than five times the lowest normal indication being measured, i.e. readings must be more than 20% of full-scale to be relied upon, and meter accuracy must be greater than 2% of full-scale. 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane Elecraft K2/100 s/n 5402 From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
I would suspect a display problem with the Watts Up ... I pulled out my Fluke and an adapter I had made years ago for a current probe and measured both radios. Both are drawing 4 mA when off... I had a 'current drawn when off' incident a few years ago myself. K3 'current when off' was over 1 amp when measured with a Watts Up right at the back of the K3. The problem turned out to be an anomalous reading on the Watts Up, caused by an IC-756 ProIII that was running, mounted on the shelf above the K3. The HV from the display was affecting the reading of the Watts Up. I turned the Pro3 off, and the reading on the Watts Up dropped to around the 4ma mark. Ralph, VE7XF __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
That only explains the apparent drain of several amperes Jim noticed. There is still a static drain of nearly 40 mA when the K3 is off. That was measured by at last two or three of us. I used a DMMs inserted in the power supply line. The 38 mA parasitic drain on mine is almost entirely to the KPA3 module. It is always connected to the dc input. Current to it does not flow through the dc control circuitry operated by the K3's Power switch. Disconnecting the KPA3 at the circuit breaker stopped the parasitic current flow. Wayne reported, Every K3 we've tested drops to a very small number of milliamps of current drain when off. I'm not sure whether the 38 mA I measure fits in that small number of milliamps criteria, but it's never been an issue for me since I turn off the 13.8 V power supply when I leave the shack. 73 Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ralph Parker Sent: Friday, October 18, 2013 12:41 PM To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off I would suspect a display problem with the Watts Up ... I pulled out my Fluke and an adapter I had made years ago for a current probe and measured both radios. Both are drawing 4 mA when off... I had a 'current drawn when off' incident a few years ago myself. K3 'current when off' was over 1 amp when measured with a Watts Up right at the back of the K3. The problem turned out to be an anomalous reading on the Watts Up, caused by an IC-756 ProIII that was running, mounted on the shelf above the K3. The HV from the display was affecting the reading of the Watts Up. I turned the Pro3 off, and the reading on the Watts Up dropped to around the 4ma mark. Ralph, VE7XF __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
On 10/18/2013 2:57 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: That only explains the apparent drain of several amperes Jim noticed. If you're talking about me, the false readings I was getting from the Watts Up meter were in the range of 40 mA, and a Fluke measured 4 mA in the positive lead. There may, however, be something happening on the negative lead that is causing the false readings. I don't have a fixture yet to put a Fluke there. I should do that. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
With my old Fluke 97 in series with the PowerPole input to my K3/10 (#6299), I saw 0 as the parasitic current. I couldn't even measure anything on the microamp scale. When I turned the K3 and P3/SVGA on, the current readings were much higher on the meter than on the K3 internal meter. (On the order of 1.8A vs 0.75A.) Turning the P3 off with the front panel switch reduced the difference to something on the order of 200 milliamps. It sounds like most of the parasitic current is being drawn by the 100 watt option (or the internal turner). FWIW, my K3 has the 2M internal transverter and a bunch of crystal filters as the only significant internal options. (My XYL, KI6SLX, is giving me the 100 watt internal amp this Christmas.) Cheers - Bill, AE6JV On 10/16/13 at 8:06 PM, r...@cobi.biz (Ron D'Eau Claire) wrote: I disconnected the PA in my K3 at the circuit breaker and the parasitic current from the 13.8V supply dropped from 38mA to nearly zero. - Bill Frantz| Airline peanut bag: Produced | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | in a facility that processes | 16345 Englewood Ave www.pwpconsult.com | peanuts and other nuts. - Duh | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
Hi Jim, A couple of thoughts I have a Kill A Watt meter for measuring line power consumption and discovered it is VERY inaccurate at the low end of its range. I was measuring an unloaded DC linear supply and at values of a few mA it was high by a factor of 10 (!) compared to a Fluke 87V. I haven't used the Watts Up meter, but you might want to check its accuracy in this range. Also, if the K3 is dissipating 4-5W when powered off, I'd expect that to be a noticeable amount of heat. 73, Josh W6XU On 10/16/2013 5:42 PM, Jim Brown wrote: On 10/16/2013 2:46 PM, Mike Harris wrote: FWIW #345 draws 39mA. The two radios I measured are s/n 935 and 1606. They've got a lot of good miles on them. :) I'm measuring with a cute little inline meter that looks at volts, amps, Ah, etc. Called Watts Up. Several ham vendors, including Power Werx, sell it, in the range of $65, with Power Poles on both ends. Bought a second one at Pacificon for $59, tax included. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
Re Wayne's possible explanation: My K3 (#266) draws around 39ma when it's off and the 13.8v psu is on. It seems to be working normally in all respects. Of course when my K3 is turned off the psu still delivers 13.8v unless it, too, is turned off so if K3s do not turn off all the way when there is still voltage on the supply lines it's probably not surprising that current is still drawn. However, apparently some K3s draw 5ma or less when off and at least two (Jim K9YC's) a lot more than mine. I am puzzled. Am I misunderstanding something? 73 to all Geoff G3UCK On October 16 Wayne wrote: Here's one possible explanation: The external power supply must drop all the way to zero V, as must any all K3 I/O signals. This may have implications for attached equipment. If there's any residual voltage on the supply or I/O lines, even 1 V, the K3 may not turn off all the way. It turns out that the brown-out detection circuitry on microcontrollers can be confused at some power levels that are low enough to look like a brownout but not high enough to properly power the detection circuitry. Under such conditions the MCU may continue to run on power-down via the on/off switch, resulting in the radio drawing an unpredictable amount of current. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
On 10/16/2013 6:35 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: I would suspect a display problem with the Watts Up ... like showing the wrong range. I *measure* 4.4 mA and 4.2 mA respectively on my K3s - s/n 622 and 1450 - with my trusty Fluke 85. You're right, Joe. I pulled out my Fluke and an adapter I had made years ago for a current probe and measured both radios. Both are drawing 4 mA when off, about 1.2A when on with one RX, about 1.5A with both RX on. Thanks for the sanity check. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
So that leaves some K3s still drawing about 38 mA when switched off. Mine, Geoff G3UCK and I think there were a couple of others who commented yesterday. Strange... 73 Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 3:16 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off On 10/16/2013 6:35 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: I would suspect a display problem with the Watts Up ... like showing the wrong range. I *measure* 4.4 mA and 4.2 mA respectively on my K3s - s/n 622 and 1450 - with my trusty Fluke 85. You're right, Joe. I pulled out my Fluke and an adapter I had made years ago for a current probe and measured both radios. Both are drawing 4 mA when off, about 1.2A when on with one RX, about 1.5A with both RX on. Thanks for the sanity check. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
I just measured my fully-loaded K3/P3. They draw 1.94A on and 4.3 mA off. Alan N1AL On 10/16/2013 10:07 AM, Jim Brown wrote: I recently set up four solar panels and a pair of 6V golf cart batteries to run my station. When I first set it up 6-8 weeks ago I was getting 35 Ah per day. Now with the sun lower in the sky and the panels shaded by my tall trees, it's more like 25 Ah/day. The batteries didn't seem to be holding a charge, and I thought they might be defective. Then someone noted that K3s pull some current when they're switched off, so I just measured mine. Sure enough, when switched off, my oldest one is pulling 420 mA and the next oldest one is pulling 350 mA. The combined load is 18.7 Ah/day! That load, combined with a a few hundred mA for antenna switching relays is what's draining my batteries. Is there a fix for my K3s short of an external switch to disconnect them from the battery? 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
I turn my Astron P/S off after turning off my K3 for the night. Should I be leaving the P/S on? 73, Jim N7US -Original Message- I just measured my fully-loaded K3/P3. They draw 1.94A on and 4.3 mA off. Alan N1AL __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
On 10/16/2013 10:50 AM, Jim N7US wrote: I turn my Astron P/S off after turning off my K3 for the night. Should I be leaving the P/S on? That depends on how rich you feel. :) Differential cost of power (that is, at the highest rate I'm paying here in CA) is $.35/kWh. At that rate, leaving an Astron linear supply on 24/7 would cost me more than $20/month. Depending on where you live, you may not be getting screwed by your power company as badly as we are. Thank you, Enron. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
Hi Jim - you must be misreading the meter by several decimal points :-) We just measured several K3s in the lab and they both draw less than 5 mA when off. Eric elecraft.com On 10/16/2013 10:37 AM, Alan Bloom wrote: I just measured my fully-loaded K3/P3. They draw 1.94A on and 4.3 mA off. Alan N1AL On 10/16/2013 10:07 AM, Jim Brown wrote: I recently set up four solar panels and a pair of 6V golf cart batteries to run my station. When I first set it up 6-8 weeks ago I was getting 35 Ah per day. Now with the sun lower in the sky and the panels shaded by my tall trees, it's more like 25 Ah/day. The batteries didn't seem to be holding a charge, and I thought they might be defective. Then someone noted that K3s pull some current when they're switched off, so I just measured mine. Sure enough, when switched off, my oldest one is pulling 420 mA and the next oldest one is pulling 350 mA. The combined load is 18.7 Ah/day! That load, combined with a a few hundred mA for antenna switching relays is what's draining my batteries. Is there a fix for my K3s short of an external switch to disconnect them from the battery? 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
Jim, I turn off all the power to the Ham equipment when it is not going to be used in the next several hours. I have a single switch for power feeding the equipment. I lived in South Florida so protecting electronic equipment is built-in! 73 George AI4VZ -Original Message- From: Jim Brown On 10/16/2013 10:50 AM, Jim N7US wrote: I turn my Astron P/S off after turning off my K3 for the night. Should I be leaving the P/S on? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
Another case of YMMV..!! My 75amp, supplying 12 vdc to everything on my desk, has been turned on for the past 9 1/2 years, with the few exceptions of when I was attaching leads to my distribution panel. And I live in south Georgia, just an alligator spit from the Florida line. Tom - W4BQF -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of George Danner Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 2:26 PM To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off Jim, I turn off all the power to the Ham equipment when it is not going to be used in the next several hours. I have a single switch for power feeding the equipment. I lived in South Florida so protecting electronic equipment is built-in! 73 George AI4VZ -Original Message- From: Jim Brown On 10/16/2013 10:50 AM, Jim N7US wrote: I turn my Astron P/S off after turning off my K3 for the night. Should I be leaving the P/S on? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
Nope. I measured both units several times, and just now repeated the measurements. 73, Jim On 10/16/2013 11:23 AM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Hi Jim - you must be misreading the meter by several decimal points :-) We just measured several K3s in the lab and they both draw less than 5 mA when off. Eric elecraft.com On 10/16/2013 10:37 AM, Alan Bloom wrote: I just measured my fully-loaded K3/P3. They draw 1.94A on and 4.3 mA off. Alan N1AL On 10/16/2013 10:07 AM, Jim Brown wrote: I recently set up four solar panels and a pair of 6V golf cart batteries to run my station. When I first set it up 6-8 weeks ago I was getting 35 Ah per day. Now with the sun lower in the sky and the panels shaded by my tall trees, it's more like 25 Ah/day. The batteries didn't seem to be holding a charge, and I thought they might be defective. Then someone noted that K3s pull some current when they're switched off, so I just measured mine. Sure enough, when switched off, my oldest one is pulling 420 mA and the next oldest one is pulling 350 mA. The combined load is 18.7 Ah/day! That load, combined with a a few hundred mA for antenna switching relays is what's draining my batteries. Is there a fix for my K3s short of an external switch to disconnect them from the battery? 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
K3 #642 measures just over 4mA when off. FT-847 reads 12mA. However, with both those loads on the FP-1030A power supply, it appears to be consuming about 3wH [72 watt-days/26.28 kw-years], apparently just to light the little LED on the panel. In fact, it's very close to 3wH with all the loads disconnected. Our highest marginal PGE rate is $0.34/kWh which works out to $8.94/yr max. Maybe a leak outside the K3(s)? It does raise the question, just how many electrons are being wasted in the TV, DirecTV receiver/DVR, microwave, and the myriad of phone/Kindle chargers plugged in all over the house, not to mention this computer which is on nearly all the time? I suspect it's a lot more than 9 bucks a year. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014 - www.cqp.org On 10/16/2013 12:15 PM, Jim Brown wrote: Nope. I measured both units several times, and just now repeated the measurements. 73, Jim On 10/16/2013 11:23 AM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Hi Jim - you must be misreading the meter by several decimal points :-) We just measured several K3s in the lab and they both draw less than 5 mA when off. Eric elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
Be careful. The power is on to the finals even when the K3 is turned off. Therefore, if the finals short, they can overheat leading to all sorts of issues. Trust me, I found out the hard way. Mine was drawing 2 amps with the K3 turned off. I make it a habit now to turn off the power supply when I am not around. Buck k4ia On 10/16/2013 3:59 PM, Fred Jensen wrote: K3 #642 measures just over 4mA when off. FT-847 reads 12mA. However, with both those loads on the FP-1030A power supply, it appears to be consuming about 3wH [72 watt-days/26.28 kw-years], apparently just to light the little LED on the panel. In fact, it's very close to 3wH with all the loads disconnected. Our highest marginal PGE rate is $0.34/kWh which works out to $8.94/yr max. Maybe a leak outside the K3(s)? It does raise the question, just how many electrons are being wasted in the TV, DirecTV receiver/DVR, microwave, and the myriad of phone/Kindle chargers plugged in all over the house, not to mention this computer which is on nearly all the time? I suspect it's a lot more than 9 bucks a year. 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014 - www.cqp.org On 10/16/2013 12:15 PM, Jim Brown wrote: Nope. I measured both units several times, and just now repeated the measurements. 73, Jim On 10/16/2013 11:23 AM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Hi Jim - you must be misreading the meter by several decimal points :-) We just measured several K3s in the lab and they both draw less than 5 mA when off. Eric elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
FWIW, I just measured my K3 and it draws 38mA when switched off. Mine is also older - way back in early production. 73, Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 12:16 PM To: Reflector Elecraft Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off Nope. I measured both units several times, and just now repeated the measurements. 73, Jim On 10/16/2013 11:23 AM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Hi Jim - you must be misreading the meter by several decimal points :-) We just measured several K3s in the lab and they both draw less than 5 mA when off. Eric elecraft.com On 10/16/2013 10:37 AM, Alan Bloom wrote: I just measured my fully-loaded K3/P3. They draw 1.94A on and 4.3 mA off. Alan N1AL On 10/16/2013 10:07 AM, Jim Brown wrote: I recently set up four solar panels and a pair of 6V golf cart batteries to run my station. When I first set it up 6-8 weeks ago I was getting 35 Ah per day. Now with the sun lower in the sky and the panels shaded by my tall trees, it's more like 25 Ah/day. The batteries didn't seem to be holding a charge, and I thought they might be defective. Then someone noted that K3s pull some current when they're switched off, so I just measured mine. Sure enough, when switched off, my oldest one is pulling 420 mA and the next oldest one is pulling 350 mA. The combined load is 18.7 Ah/day! That load, combined with a a few hundred mA for antenna switching relays is what's draining my batteries. Is there a fix for my K3s short of an external switch to disconnect them from the battery? 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
My K3 (about 2 years old) is pulling under 5 mA when powered off. I usually turn off the power supply that feeds it to avoid wasted power. You would be shocked to find out how much power things can pull. It adds up (after all there are 8760 hours in a year) . My original cable box consumed 68 watts an hour no matter what mode it was in (ON or OFF). At my electrical rate that was over $100 a year. Now my FIOS box is much better, and OFF is only a couple of watts, or about $3 a year. I was also real proud of myself when I took a bunch of surplus PC parts and built a file and printer server that was powered on 24/7. However power measurements indicated it was pulling almost 400 watts an hour, or more than $600 worth of electricity a year. Once I knew that I replaced it with a high efficiency commercially built server that consumed less than a tenth of that. It paid for itself years ago. That's also why I tend to use laptops rather than desktops now -- far more power efficient. I even mentioned to the group a year ago that my KPA500 pulls a tad bit of phantom power even when the switch is off. As I recall it added up to about $20 a year. But to be as green as possible I unplug it if I'm not going to be using the radio for a bit. 73, Bob, WB4SON __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
My electric bill from ComEd in Chicago charges the same rate per kWh regardless of usage. Adding in all costs, the cost per kWh is 9.3 cents. Other costs of living here are high, but I guess I can afford to keep the K3 powered up if I wanted to. 73, Jim N7US -Original Message- K3 #642 measures just over 4mA when off. FT-847 reads 12mA. However, with both those loads on the FP-1030A power supply, it appears to be consuming about 3wH [72 watt-days/26.28 kw-years], apparently just to light the little LED on the panel. In fact, it's very close to 3wH with all the loads disconnected. Our highest marginal PGE rate is $0.34/kWh which works out to $8.94/yr max. 73, Fred K6DGW __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
Jim, Here's one possible explanation: The external power supply must drop all the way to zero V, as must any all K3 I/O signals. This may have implications for attached equipment. If there's any residual voltage on the supply or I/O lines, even 1 V, the K3 may not turn off all the way. It turns out that the brown-out detection circuitry on microcontrollers can be confused at some power levels that are low enough to look like a brownout but not high enough to properly power the detection circuitry. Under such conditions the MCU may continue to run on power-down via the on/off switch, resulting in the radio drawing an unpredictable amount of current. If residual supply or I/O leakage isn't the cause, then I suspect a problem with your K3's on/off circuitry or possibly even the PA module. (You could test the latter theory by unplugging the KPA3.) Every K3 we've tested drops to a very small number of milliamps of current drain when off. 73, Wayne N6KR Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com wrote: Nope. I measured both units several times, and just now repeated the measurements. 73, Jim On 10/16/2013 11:23 AM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Hi Jim - you must be misreading the meter by several decimal points :-) We just measured several K3s in the lab and they both draw less than 5 mA when off. Eric elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
I disconnected everything from my K3 except the power cable and the drain when off remains at 38mA. I don't have the time right now to pull the PA module, but that sounds like the next best possible culprit. I had never noticed the parasitic drain because my station power supply is switched off when I leave the shack. 73, Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wayne Burdick Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 1:34 PM To: j...@audiosystemsgroup.com Cc: Reflector Elecraft Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off Jim, Here's one possible explanation: The external power supply must drop all the way to zero V, as must any all K3 I/O signals. This may have implications for attached equipment. If there's any residual voltage on the supply or I/O lines, even 1 V, the K3 may not turn off all the way. It turns out that the brown-out detection circuitry on microcontrollers can be confused at some power levels that are low enough to look like a brownout but not high enough to properly power the detection circuitry. Under such conditions the MCU may continue to run on power-down via the on/off switch, resulting in the radio drawing an unpredictable amount of current. If residual supply or I/O leakage isn't the cause, then I suspect a problem with your K3's on/off circuitry or possibly even the PA module. (You could test the latter theory by unplugging the KPA3.) Every K3 we've tested drops to a very small number of milliamps of current drain when off. 73, Wayne N6KR Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com wrote: Nope. I measured both units several times, and just now repeated the measurements. 73, Jim On 10/16/2013 11:23 AM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Hi Jim - you must be misreading the meter by several decimal points :-) We just measured several K3s in the lab and they both draw less than 5 mA when off. Eric elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
Same here but only about 31ma on a Triplett 2202 DMM on K3 s/n 202. 73, Ken K3IU ~~~ On 10/16/2013 5:01 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: I disconnected everything from my K3 except the power cable and the drain when off remains at 38mA. I don't have the time right now to pull the PA module, but that sounds like the next best possible culprit. I had never noticed the parasitic drain because my station power supply is switched off when I leave the shack. 73, Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wayne Burdick Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 1:34 PM To: j...@audiosystemsgroup.com Cc: Reflector Elecraft Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off Jim, Here's one possible explanation: The external power supply must drop all the way to zero V, as must any all K3 I/O signals. This may have implications for attached equipment. If there's any residual voltage on the supply or I/O lines, even 1 V, the K3 may not turn off all the way. It turns out that the brown-out detection circuitry on microcontrollers can be confused at some power levels that are low enough to look like a brownout but not high enough to properly power the detection circuitry. Under such conditions the MCU may continue to run on power-down via the on/off switch, resulting in the radio drawing an unpredictable amount of current. If residual supply or I/O leakage isn't the cause, then I suspect a problem with your K3's on/off circuitry or possibly even the PA module. (You could test the latter theory by unplugging the KPA3.) Every K3 we've tested drops to a very small number of milliamps of current drain when off. 73, Wayne N6KR Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com wrote: Nope. I measured both units several times, and just now repeated the measurements. 73, Jim On 10/16/2013 11:23 AM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Hi Jim - you must be misreading the meter by several decimal points :-) We just measured several K3s in the lab and they both draw less than 5 mA when off. Eric elecraft.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
Not wishing to take this thread too much offf course, but the dollar equivalent cost of 1 kWh in the UK is about 24 cents US and soon about to rise and we don't have the most expensive elecrical energy in Europe by a long way. So I turn off whatever I can! 73 Stephen G4SJP On 16 October 2013 22:05, Ken K3IU kenk...@cox.net wrote: Same here but only about 31ma on a Triplett 2202 DMM on K3 s/n 202. 73, Ken K3IU ~~~ On 10/16/2013 5:01 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: I disconnected everything from my K3 except the power cable and the drain when off remains at 38mA. I don't have the time right now to pull the PA module, but that sounds like the next best possible culprit. I had never noticed the parasitic drain because my station power supply is switched off when I leave the shack. 73, Ron AC7AC -Original Message- From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.**netelecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net [mailto:elecraft-bounces@**mailman.qth.netelecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wayne Burdick Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 1:34 PM To: j...@audiosystemsgroup.com Cc: Reflector Elecraft Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off Jim, Here's one possible explanation: The external power supply must drop all the way to zero V, as must any all K3 I/O signals. This may have implications for attached equipment. If there's any residual voltage on the supply or I/O lines, even 1 V, the K3 may not turn off all the way. It turns out that the brown-out detection circuitry on microcontrollers can be confused at some power levels that are low enough to look like a brownout but not high enough to properly power the detection circuitry. Under such conditions the MCU may continue to run on power-down via the on/off switch, resulting in the radio drawing an unpredictable amount of current. If residual supply or I/O leakage isn't the cause, then I suspect a problem with your K3's on/off circuitry or possibly even the PA module. (You could test the latter theory by unplugging the KPA3.) Every K3 we've tested drops to a very small number of milliamps of current drain when off. 73, Wayne N6KR Jim Brown j...@audiosystemsgroup.com wrote: Nope. I measured both units several times, and just now repeated the measurements. 73, Jim On 10/16/2013 11:23 AM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote: Hi Jim - you must be misreading the meter by several decimal points :-) We just measured several K3s in the lab and they both draw less than 5 mA when off. Eric elecraft.com __**__**__ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/**mailman/listinfo/elecrafthttp://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.**htmhttp://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:elecr...@mailman.qth.**net Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __**__**__ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/**mailman/listinfo/elecrafthttp://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.**htmhttp://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:elecr...@mailman.qth.**net Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __**__**__ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/**mailman/listinfo/elecrafthttp://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.**htmhttp://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:elecr...@mailman.qth.**net Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
Ur right, probably an auto-ranging Ammeter (???) 73, Chas - Original Message - From: Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft e...@elecraft.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off Hi Jim - you must be misreading the meter by several decimal points :-) We just measured several K3s in the lab and they both draw less than 5 mA when off. Eric elecraft.com On 10/16/2013 10:37 AM, Alan Bloom wrote: I just measured my fully-loaded K3/P3. They draw 1.94A on and 4.3 mA off. Alan N1AL On 10/16/2013 10:07 AM, Jim Brown wrote: I recently set up four solar panels and a pair of 6V golf cart batteries to run my station. When I first set it up 6-8 weeks ago I was getting 35 Ah per day. Now with the sun lower in the sky and the panels shaded by my tall trees, it's more like 25 Ah/day. The batteries didn't seem to be holding a charge, and I thought they might be defective. Then someone noted that K3s pull some current when they're switched off, so I just measured mine. Sure enough, when switched off, my oldest one is pulling 420 mA and the next oldest one is pulling 350 mA. The combined load is 18.7 Ah/day! That load, combined with a a few hundred mA for antenna switching relays is what's draining my batteries. Is there a fix for my K3s short of an external switch to disconnect them from the battery? 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
FWIW #345 draws 39mA. No change when pulling the plug on the PR6 and RS232. Regards, Mike VP8NO On 16/10/2013 18:05, Ken K3IU wrote: Same here but only about 31ma on a Triplett 2202 DMM on K3 s/n 202. 73, Ken K3IU ~~~ On 10/16/2013 5:01 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: I disconnected everything from my K3 except the power cable and the drain when off remains at 38mA. I don't have the time right now to pull the PA module, but that sounds like the next best possible culprit. I had never noticed the parasitic drain because my station power supply is switched off when I leave the shack. 73, Ron AC7AC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
On 10/16/2013 2:46 PM, Mike Harris wrote: FWIW #345 draws 39mA. The two radios I measured are s/n 935 and 1606. They've got a lot of good miles on them. :) I'm measuring with a cute little inline meter that looks at volts, amps, Ah, etc. Called Watts Up. Several ham vendors, including Power Werx, sell it, in the range of $65, with Power Poles on both ends. Bought a second one at Pacificon for $59, tax included. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
On 10/16/2013 5:42 PM, Jim Brown wrote: I'm measuring with a cute little inline meter that looks at volts, amps, Ah, etc. Called Watts Up. That's what I have, really cool! 73, Fred K6DGW - Northern California Contest Club - CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014 - www.cqp.org __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
I'm measuring with a cute little inline meter that looks at volts, amps, Ah, etc. Called Watts Up. Several ham vendors, including Power Werx, sell it, in the range of $65, with Power Poles on both ends. I would suspect a display problem with the Watts Up ... like showing the wrong range. I *measure* 4.4 mA and 4.2 mA respectively on my K3s - s/n 622 and 1450 - with my trusty Fluke 85. It's either a display problem in the Watts Up or your PAs have problems - unplug one wire from the circuit breaker and measure again. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 10/16/2013 8:42 PM, Jim Brown wrote: On 10/16/2013 2:46 PM, Mike Harris wrote: FWIW #345 draws 39mA. The two radios I measured are s/n 935 and 1606. They've got a lot of good miles on them. :) I'm measuring with a cute little inline meter that looks at volts, amps, Ah, etc. Called Watts Up. Several ham vendors, including Power Werx, sell it, in the range of $65, with Power Poles on both ends. Bought a second one at Pacificon for $59, tax included. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
Another data point: K3 1417 measures 4.0 mA when turned off. Rob NV5E Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 21:35:37 -0400 From: li...@subich.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off I'm measuring with a cute little inline meter that looks at volts, amps, Ah, etc. Called Watts Up. Several ham vendors, including Power Werx, sell it, in the range of $65, with Power Poles on both ends. I would suspect a display problem with the Watts Up ... like showing the wrong range. I *measure* 4.4 mA and 4.2 mA respectively on my K3s - s/n 622 and 1450 - with my trusty Fluke 85. It's either a display problem in the Watts Up or your PAs have problems - unplug one wire from the circuit breaker and measure again. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 10/16/2013 8:42 PM, Jim Brown wrote: On 10/16/2013 2:46 PM, Mike Harris wrote: FWIW #345 draws 39mA. The two radios I measured are s/n 935 and 1606. They've got a lot of good miles on them. :) I'm measuring with a cute little inline meter that looks at volts, amps, Ah, etc. Called Watts Up. Several ham vendors, including Power Werx, sell it, in the range of $65, with Power Poles on both ends. Bought a second one at Pacificon for $59, tax included. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
On 10/16/2013 1:33 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: Here's one possible explanation: Thanks Wayne. Battery voltage is in the range of 12 - 13.8 V, depending on what the solar panels are doing. As to residual on accessories -- I've got I/O for the Yankee Clipper SO2R box plugged into both radios. That has a WinKey emulator, which feeds the Key input, a paddle which it switches to the paddle input, a CM500 mic, which it switches to the rear panel input (and for which the K3 is providing bias), and headphones, switched to the rear panel phones. I tried unplugging it from one of the radios and nothing changed. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
Get the one from Hobbyking for $24 instead of from Power Werx. It is the exact same Turnigy 130A meter without the power poles.http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=10080You can buy a lot of power poles for $40. 73, Tom - wa4ta Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 17:42:34 -0700 From: j...@audiosystemsgroup.com To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off On 10/16/2013 2:46 PM, Mike Harris wrote: FWIW #345 draws 39mA. The two radios I measured are s/n 935 and 1606. They've got a lot of good miles on them. :) I'm measuring with a cute little inline meter that looks at volts, amps, Ah, etc. Called Watts Up. Several ham vendors, including Power Werx, sell it, in the range of $65, with Power Poles on both ends. Bought a second one at Pacificon for $59, tax included. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Elecraft] K3 Current Drain When Off
I disconnected the PA in my K3 at the circuit breaker and the parasitic current from the 13.8V supply dropped from 38mA to nearly zero. There's no sign of unusual behavior of the amp. No errors. Full output. All operation suggests that it's quite normal. 73, Ron AC7AC -Original Message- On 10/16/2013 1:33 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: Here's one possible explanation: Thanks Wayne. Battery voltage is in the range of 12 - 13.8 V, depending on what the solar panels are doing. As to residual on accessories -- I've got I/O for the Yankee Clipper SO2R box plugged into both radios. That has a WinKey emulator, which feeds the Key input, a paddle which it switches to the paddle input, a CM500 mic, which it switches to the rear panel input (and for which the K3 is providing bias), and headphones, switched to the rear panel phones. I tried unplugging it from one of the radios and nothing changed. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
