Re: [Elecraft] K3 - spurious signal.

[Fred Jensen]

Perhaps it's a full moon tonight, about the only explanation I can come 
up with.  There were actually two of them, +/- 15KHz from where I was 
tuned.  They were annoying since they moved when I tuned, and made 
interesting pictures on the P3 waterfall since they were strong enough. 
 I have never seen them before.


I'm going to do an SOHP CW in the ARRL 10, but I switched VFO's just to 
see if there were any stations on phone.  Came back to CW for awhile, 
and then realized the spurs were gone.  We'll see if they reappear 
tomorrow morning.


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2013 Cal QSO Party 5-6 Oct 2013
- www.cqp.org

On 12/7/2012 4:58 PM, Al Lorona wrote:

Fred, that's a birdie. As long as it's outside of your passband it will
not be heard and is nothing to worry about. You do see it on other bands
if your noise level is low enough and you look closely with a sufficient
span.



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?

[Thomas Horsten]

>From the SoftRock Lite build
guide -
I guess this could explain what we're seeing:


Sub-harmonic Sampling

Alan, G4ZFQ points out that on the 30m, 20m, 15m receivers, the Local
Oscillator produces a signal that is 4/3 times the desired center frequency
as opposed to the 4x the center frequency output for the lower band models.

"Subharmonic" works like this:- The LO outputs a 13.5MHz signl that goes to
the dividers /4, resulting in 1 3.375MHz square wave ( rich in odd
harmonics) being fed to the mixer. At the mixer, a strong 3rd harmonic is
present on the clock inputs, along with the fundamental of 3.375 MHz. The
3.375 fundamental multiplied by 3 yields the third harmonic of 10.125MHZ.
The Bandpass filter (BPF) performs the essential function of severely
attenuating any signals centered around the 3.375MHz fundamental frequency
and first harmonmic, but allows 30m signals centering around the third
harmonic of the 3.375MHz LO output. The result is that the mixer is dealing
with signals in the passband, centering on 10.125MHz, as though the
dividers were passing a fundamental frequency of 10.125 to the mixer. BPFs
are all that stop Softrocks from working on unwanted frequencies

73, Thomas M0TRN


On 24 January 2012 13:08, John/K8AZT  wrote:

> I have not been monitoring this mail list much recently so I apologize if
> this
> subject has been discussed previously.
>
> I like to monitor the reversebeacon.net website while calling cq or just
> monitoring looking for a qso.  Recently I have discovered a situation
> which has
> me puzzled and I am hoping someone here might be able to give me some
> insight
> what might be happening.
>
> When calling cq (CW) on 7.0 MHz cw,  I see several hits on the reverse
> beacon
> website on 7.0 MHz, however I have also seen a couple stations allegedly
> hearing
> me on 10.1 MHz (2 occurrences) and a station hearing me on 28 MHz bands (1
> occurrence).  I am hoping this is a problem with the skimmers, but want to
> check
> out if there is anything which might not be right with my K3 and/or antenna
> which might be generating unwanted radiations.  At the moment I do not have
> exact frequencies where I was being monitored.  I just thought someone
> might
> have a suggestion where do I proceed.
>
> At the moment I do not have access to a frequency analyzer, but hope I can
> find
> one to borrow locally.
>
> Thank you for any suggestions/comments anyone in the reflector might have.
>
> 73,
> John/K8AZT
> K3/ SN 1693
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

We're actively chasing a few cases where this has happened on the RBN.  
Obviously we'd prefer it didn't.  One hypothesis for phantom spots on 
the low bands is strong AM broadcast stations causing clipping and 
resulting in intermod.  Another appears to have been caused by 
interaction between recording software sharing the USB data stream with 
SkimSrv.  As far as I know, though, all of these issues are in-band 
phantoms, which would not explain those spots on another band altogether.

73, Pete N4ZR
The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at 
reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000


On 1/26/2012 6:27 PM, John/K8AZT wrote:
> Thank you to all who have taken the time to respond to my question regarding
> possible false spots by the skimmer receivers used for reporting on
> reversebeacon web site.  I appreciate all the responses.
>
> 73,
> John/K8AZT
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>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?

[John/K8AZT]

Thank you to all who have taken the time to respond to my question regarding 
possible false spots by the skimmer receivers used for reporting on 
reversebeacon web site.  I appreciate all the responses.

73,
John/K8AZT
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?

[VR2BrettGraham]

M0TRN replied to K8AZT:

> I had this happen to me a few days ago where I was calling CQ on 7.015 and
> was spotted on 14.0614 by Tim KQ8M's skimmer. I emailed KQ8M to ask him if
> there was a problem with his skimmer. He replied that he wouldn't rule out
> that the problem was in his Rx setup, but it was tuned to 20m.
>
> Now I was running through the linear and an ATU, and I can't see any
> logical relationship between the two frequencies, so I'm leaning to the
> theory that his receiver was the culprit, although I did find it very
> strange.
>
> I think a lot of RBN skimmers use SoftRock receivers, and I'm guessing 
> that
> if his VFO was tuned to 14.050 using the 2nd harmonic of a 7.025
> fundamental, it would kind of fit, but I'm still surprised that my 300W
> signal to an inverted V was 6dB over the noise on the wrong band in Ohio,
> 3800 miles away on the other side of the Atlantic... I'm not sure exactly
> because I don't know what receiver he was using, but it did have me 
> puzzled
> and when I saw John's post I thought I'd mention it.
>
> Here's the spot in question:
>
> de dx freq cq/dx snr speed time
> M0TRN 14061.4 CQ [LoTW] 6 dB 22 wpm 1952z 22 Jan KQ8M
> M0TRN 7015.0 CQ [LoTW] 14 dB 21 wpm 1952z 22 Jan S50ARX
> M0TRN 7015.0 CQ [LoTW] 14 dB 19 wpm 1952z 22 Jan W3LPL
> M0TRN 7015.0 CQ [LoTW] 14 dB 19 wpm 1952z 22 Jan W3LPL

This from only a very quick look at RBN spots from the day I believe 
K8AZT's wrong-band RBN spot happened on - but all of the 14 wrong-band 
RBN spots from that skimmer had a relationship between the wrong-band 
spotted & the actual frequencies the stations were on (based on where 
all the other skimmers were spotting those 14 stations at the time).

In the course of looking those up, I noticed another wrong-band RBN spot 
from KQ8M's skimmer that wrong-band spotted M0TRN above.

Also found in the course of looking at not quite all of the 13 calls 
spotted on 10m by the skimmer that wrong-band spotted K8AZT 
(coincidentally another K3 owner), were three wrong-band RBN spots from 
yet another skimmer.

Not sure, but I think all three skimmers concerned use Softrock SDRs 
(standalone, not IF).

Well spotted, gentlemen.  No worries about your K3s, but anyone into RBN 
might bear in mind I see about at least 3% of what was RBN spotted on 
one day by one of these three skimmers (together roughly 2.5% of 
skimmers QRV in the past 7 days) was spotted on 10, 15 or 20 when the 
station was actually on 40m.  I even found two of these skimmers saying 
one station's CQ was on both 28031 & 14043 at the same time (not a 
multi-multi contest station & it was a GMT Monday).  A more thorough 
look into all the possible Softrock spurious response RBN spots might be 
interesting, but beyond me.  I'm rather surprised at how many of these 
apparently LO harmonic related ones I found in such short order.

73/HLNY, ex-VR2BG/p.

> On 24 January 2012 13:08, John/K8AZT  wrote:
>
>> > I have not been monitoring this mail list much recently so I 
>> apologize if
>> > this
>> > subject has been discussed previously.
>> >
>> > I like to monitor the reversebeacon.net website while calling cq or just
>> > monitoring looking for a qso. Recently I have discovered a situation
>> > which has
>> > me puzzled and I am hoping someone here might be able to give me some
>> > insight
>> > what might be happening.
>> >
>> > When calling cq (CW) on 7.0 MHz cw, I see several hits on the reverse
>> > beacon
>> > website on 7.0 MHz, however I have also seen a couple stations allegedly
>> > hearing
>> > me on 10.1 MHz (2 occurrences) and a station hearing me on 28 MHz 
>> bands (1
>> > occurrence). I am hoping this is a problem with the skimmers, but 
>> want to
>> > check
>> > out if there is anything which might not be right with my K3 and/or 
>> antenna
>> > which might be generating unwanted radiations. At the moment I do 
>> not have
>> > exact frequencies where I was being monitored. I just thought someone
>> > might
>> > have a suggestion where do I proceed.
>> >
>> > At the moment I do not have access to a frequency analyzer, but hope 
>> I can
>> > find
>> > one to borrow locally.
>> >
>> > Thank you for any suggestions/comments anyone in the reflector might 
>> have.
>> >
>> > 73,
>> > John/K8AZT

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?

[Hanford R Wright]

Hi Terry
1515 is my member number in the Collins Radio Association and AC11-12590 is
my number for The Collins Collectors Association.

Best Regards
HANFORD R. WRIGHT  WA4LZC
CRA # 1515  CCA# AC11-12590

-Original Message-
From: Terry Schieler [mailto:terry.schie...@wirelessusa.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 14:05
To: 'Hanford R Wright'
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?

Hello.

I have a question for you as well.  Been a ham for 50 years.  What is "CRA
#1515  CCA# AC-11-12590??"  Don't believe I've seen that before.

73 de Terry, W0FM   



-Original Message-
From: Hanford R Wright [mailto:jo...@earthlink.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 1:07 PM
To: 'Roger D Johnson'; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?

To everyone on the list that responded to my newbe question thank you...
;-) 
 
Best 73's
HANFORD R. WRIGHT  WA4LZC
CRA # 1515  CCA# AC11-12590


-Original Message-
From: Roger D Johnson [mailto:n...@roadrunner.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 13:48
To: Hanford R Wright
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?

Hi Han...

See here:

http://www.dxatlas.com/CwSkimmer/

These things can be interfaced with packet to send out spots for
everything they hear!

73, Roger


On 1/24/2012 1:24 PM, Hanford R Wright wrote:
> Hi to the list
> Even though I am an extra I am still a newbe in HF could someone please
> explain what a skimmer is and its function? Thanks in Advance.
> Best 73's
> HANFORD R. WRIGHT  WA4LZC
> CRA # 1515  CCA# AC11-12590
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ken G Kopp
> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 11:56
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?
>
> There are -many- bogus spots showing up on the
> DX Summit site, and most seem to originate from
> "skimmers" running amuck.  W3LPL's seems to
> be among the largest error generators.
>
> 73!
>
> Ken - K0PP
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-- 
Remember the Liberty (AGTR-5)
http://www.usslibertyveterans.org/
http://www.gtr5.com/



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?

[KQ8M]

Just an FYI, the W3LPL spots are not his skimmer. He has special code that
re-spots skimmers that are sent to the Reverse Beacon Network. He has a
skimmer system but the ones you see on the clusters is not that network. The
skimmer operators only dump their decodes to the RBN. Well the ones that
know what is going on do. During contests, the big gun stations have a local
network of skimmers that they connect to to help with locating DX. These are
also not seen by the general public.

Some of us cluster operators also have a local skimmer or are connected to a
skimmer but these spots are only seen on our nodes. Mine only has my local
skimmers. These can also be filtered out. I am running the beta code of V6
ARCluster which allows connecting to a skimmer and only allowing the spots
locally.

Tim Herrick, KQ8M
North Coast Contesters
k...@kq8m.com

K3 Serial #5934

-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Gary K9GS
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 11:49 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?

I've seen this happen before and it has also happened to me.  Once I was 
on the low end of 40M and the W3LPL skimmer spotted me just below 7100.  
go figure.

If you watch skimmer spots you'll often notice weird things showing up.  
One of the JA skimmers regularly spots T2DE on 40M.  There is not, to 
the best of my knowledge, a station from Tuvalu licensed at T2DE.  I've 
seen other skimmers spot the same callsign when there was no way there 
was a propagation path.



On 1/24/2012 7:08 AM, John/K8AZT wrote:
> I have not been monitoring this mail list much recently so I apologize if
this
> subject has been discussed previously.
>
> I like to monitor the reversebeacon.net website while calling cq or just
> monitoring looking for a qso.  Recently I have discovered a situation
which has
> me puzzled and I am hoping someone here might be able to give me some
insight
> what might be happening.
>
> When calling cq (CW) on 7.0 MHz cw,  I see several hits on the reverse
beacon
> website on 7.0 MHz, however I have also seen a couple stations allegedly
hearing
> me on 10.1 MHz (2 occurrences) and a station hearing me on 28 MHz bands (1
> occurrence).  I am hoping this is a problem with the skimmers, but want to
check
> out if there is anything which might not be right with my K3 and/or
antenna
> which might be generating unwanted radiations.  At the moment I do not
have
> exact frequencies where I was being monitored.  I just thought someone
might
> have a suggestion where do I proceed.
>
> At the moment I do not have access to a frequency analyzer, but hope I can
find
> one to borrow locally.
>
> Thank you for any suggestions/comments anyone in the reflector might have.
>
> 73,
> John/K8AZT
> K3/ SN 1693
> __
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

-- 


73,

Gary K9GS

Check out K9NS on the web:  http://www.k9ns.com
Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?

[Pete Smith N4ZR]

This is way OT, but false decodes like T2DE are quite common when a 
Skimmer is listening in the RTTY area of the band.

73, Pete N4ZR
The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at www.conteststations.com
The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at 
reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000 and
arcluster.reversebeacon.net, port 7000


On 1/24/2012 11:49 PM, Gary K9GS wrote:
> I've seen this happen before and it has also happened to me.  Once I was
> on the low end of 40M and the W3LPL skimmer spotted me just below 7100.
> go figure.
>
> If you watch skimmer spots you'll often notice weird things showing up.
> One of the JA skimmers regularly spots T2DE on 40M.  There is not, to
> the best of my knowledge, a station from Tuvalu licensed at T2DE.  I've
> seen other skimmers spot the same callsign when there was no way there
> was a propagation path.
>
>
>
> On 1/24/2012 7:08 AM, John/K8AZT wrote:
>> I have not been monitoring this mail list much recently so I apologize if 
>> this
>> subject has been discussed previously.
>>
>> I like to monitor the reversebeacon.net website while calling cq or just
>> monitoring looking for a qso.  Recently I have discovered a situation which 
>> has
>> me puzzled and I am hoping someone here might be able to give me some insight
>> what might be happening.
>>
>> When calling cq (CW) on 7.0 MHz cw,  I see several hits on the reverse beacon
>> website on 7.0 MHz, however I have also seen a couple stations allegedly 
>> hearing
>> me on 10.1 MHz (2 occurrences) and a station hearing me on 28 MHz bands (1
>> occurrence).  I am hoping this is a problem with the skimmers, but want to 
>> check
>> out if there is anything which might not be right with my K3 and/or antenna
>> which might be generating unwanted radiations.  At the moment I do not have
>> exact frequencies where I was being monitored.  I just thought someone might
>> have a suggestion where do I proceed.
>>
>> At the moment I do not have access to a frequency analyzer, but hope I can 
>> find
>> one to borrow locally.
>>
>> Thank you for any suggestions/comments anyone in the reflector might have.
>>
>> 73,
>> John/K8AZT
>> K3/ SN 1693
>> __
>> Elecraft mailing list
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>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
>>
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>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?

[Matt Murphy]

I have noticed that pskreporter.info often spots me on the wrong band as
well.  I think there must be some glitch in the software.  I've never been
spotted on the wrong band by the cw skimmer network (that I'm aware of).

-Matt NQ6N

On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 8:49 PM, Gary K9GS  wrote:

> I've seen this happen before and it has also happened to me.  Once I was
> on the low end of 40M and the W3LPL skimmer spotted me just below 7100.
> go figure.
>
> If you watch skimmer spots you'll often notice weird things showing up.
> One of the JA skimmers regularly spots T2DE on 40M.  There is not, to
> the best of my knowledge, a station from Tuvalu licensed at T2DE.  I've
> seen other skimmers spot the same callsign when there was no way there
> was a propagation path.
>
>
>
> On 1/24/2012 7:08 AM, John/K8AZT wrote:
> > I have not been monitoring this mail list much recently so I apologize
> if this
> > subject has been discussed previously.
> >
> > I like to monitor the reversebeacon.net website while calling cq or just
> > monitoring looking for a qso.  Recently I have discovered a situation
> which has
> > me puzzled and I am hoping someone here might be able to give me some
> insight
> > what might be happening.
> >
> > When calling cq (CW) on 7.0 MHz cw,  I see several hits on the reverse
> beacon
> > website on 7.0 MHz, however I have also seen a couple stations allegedly
> hearing
> > me on 10.1 MHz (2 occurrences) and a station hearing me on 28 MHz bands
> (1
> > occurrence).  I am hoping this is a problem with the skimmers, but want
> to check
> > out if there is anything which might not be right with my K3 and/or
> antenna
> > which might be generating unwanted radiations.  At the moment I do not
> have
> > exact frequencies where I was being monitored.  I just thought someone
> might
> > have a suggestion where do I proceed.
> >
> > At the moment I do not have access to a frequency analyzer, but hope I
> can find
> > one to borrow locally.
> >
> > Thank you for any suggestions/comments anyone in the reflector might
> have.
> >
> > 73,
> > John/K8AZT
> > K3/ SN 1693
> > __
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
>
> --
>
>
> 73,
>
> Gary K9GS
>
> Check out K9NS on the web:  http://www.k9ns.com
> Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
> Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
>
> 
>
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?

[Gary K9GS]

I've seen this happen before and it has also happened to me.  Once I was 
on the low end of 40M and the W3LPL skimmer spotted me just below 7100.  
go figure.

If you watch skimmer spots you'll often notice weird things showing up.  
One of the JA skimmers regularly spots T2DE on 40M.  There is not, to 
the best of my knowledge, a station from Tuvalu licensed at T2DE.  I've 
seen other skimmers spot the same callsign when there was no way there 
was a propagation path.



On 1/24/2012 7:08 AM, John/K8AZT wrote:
> I have not been monitoring this mail list much recently so I apologize if this
> subject has been discussed previously.
>
> I like to monitor the reversebeacon.net website while calling cq or just
> monitoring looking for a qso.  Recently I have discovered a situation which 
> has
> me puzzled and I am hoping someone here might be able to give me some insight
> what might be happening.
>
> When calling cq (CW) on 7.0 MHz cw,  I see several hits on the reverse beacon
> website on 7.0 MHz, however I have also seen a couple stations allegedly 
> hearing
> me on 10.1 MHz (2 occurrences) and a station hearing me on 28 MHz bands (1
> occurrence).  I am hoping this is a problem with the skimmers, but want to 
> check
> out if there is anything which might not be right with my K3 and/or antenna
> which might be generating unwanted radiations.  At the moment I do not have
> exact frequencies where I was being monitored.  I just thought someone might
> have a suggestion where do I proceed.
>
> At the moment I do not have access to a frequency analyzer, but hope I can 
> find
> one to borrow locally.
>
> Thank you for any suggestions/comments anyone in the reflector might have.
>
> 73,
> John/K8AZT
> K3/ SN 1693
> __
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-- 


73,

Gary K9GS

Check out K9NS on the web:  http://www.k9ns.com
Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com



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Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?

[Mike WA8BXN]

A comment on the standby receiver ... Its a good idea but like any piece of
test equipment its important to know its capabilities. If you don't hear any
spurs on it you are probably ok. On the other hand, if you do hear spurs,
don't get too excited. Local receivers will often hear things that won't be
heard a few miles away. So the suggestion of having a local ham doing some
listening is a very good one. Ideally one could see what is heard when the
primary rig is working properly. Then it can more properly be used to check
for problems that are expected. 
 
73 Mike WA8BXN
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Yes. Experienced Hams know two things about bad reports:

1) Never EVER accept one station's report. All too often it's cockpit
trouble at the other end or a bad rx. That doesn't mean not to be polite.
But politely accept the report and go on to 2)

2) Check the report on your standby receiver. No standby or second receiver?
Then contact someone fairly close by and have them look for the same spurs. 

However, it's good Amateur practice to have a standby receiver. It does not
need to be "state of the art". If anything, the less "state of the art" the
better. A simple, single conversion superhet or direct conversion receiver
is best for looking to see if a reported spur is present because they have
the fewest internal spurious responses. Modern multiple conversion and SDF
receivers are always suspect when noting spurious responses. Top of the line
receivers, like the Elecraft rigs, are the least problematic, but I still
turn to a simple single-conversion superhet to see if there's a spur. Even a
single conversion superhet has spurious responses but, owing to its relative
simplicity, they are easy to anticipate with a little arithmetic. 

73, 

Ron AC7AC



-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of John/K8AZT
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 5:16 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?

Thank you Tom, Geof, and Eduardo for responding.  I feel a bit better that I
am 
not alone experiencing this situation, however want to prove it is not from
my 
rig.  


I started wondering since the skimmer rx's are sdr's, this might have
something 
to do with digital sampling aliasing.  If the ADC's don't have sufficient 
anti-aliasing filters, strange results can result from not sampling at a 
sufficiently high frequency.  I wonder what the sampling frequencies are for
the 
sdr's used?  Something more for me to research.

Again, Tnx all for the input.

73,
John/K8AZT

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?

[John/K8AZT]

Thank you Tom, Geof, and Eduardo for responding.  I feel a bit better that I am 
not alone experiencing this situation, however want to prove it is not from my 
rig.  


I started wondering since the skimmer rx's are sdr's, this might have something 
to do with digital sampling aliasing.  If the ADC's don't have sufficient 
anti-aliasing filters, strange results can result from not sampling at a 
sufficiently high frequency.  I wonder what the sampling frequencies are for 
the 
sdr's used?  Something more for me to research.

Again, Tnx all for the input.

73,
John/K8AZT
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?

[Rich - K1HTV]

Ken,
   I hear that some wise guys are sending the calls of DX stations, "CQ
callsign" or "de callsign", on oddball frequencies so they will show up as
skimmer spots. That might explain some of the bogus spots being posted on the DX
cluster network. I have seen quite a few low band spots for Asian DX stations
from W3LPL hours after Frank's sunrise. Having operated DX contests at W3LPL at
the 160M position since the mid '90's, I know what DX can be expected to be
heard after sunrise. I'm pretty sure that the source of those bogus spots are
ops with a twisted sense of humor who are within radio range of skimmer
receivers . Maybe they are trying to make W3LPL and other skimmer stations look
bad so they will turn them off. 

Skimmers have resulted in my adding many new band countries to the K1HTV low
power totals. Now have over 2800 worked with 100 Watts. 

Still having fun in Ham Radio after almost 54 years and loving my K3!

73,
Rich - K1HTV

= = =
 
-Original Message-
From: Ken G Kopp [mailto:kengk...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 11:56 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?

There are -many- bogus spots showing up on the DX Summit site, and most seem to
originate from "skimmers" running amuck.  W3LPL's seems to be among the largest
error generators.

73!

Ken - K0PP


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Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?

[Hanford R Wright]

To everyone on the list that responded to my newbe question thank you...
;-) 
 
Best 73's
HANFORD R. WRIGHT  WA4LZC
CRA # 1515  CCA# AC11-12590


-Original Message-
From: Roger D Johnson [mailto:n...@roadrunner.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 13:48
To: Hanford R Wright
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?

Hi Han...

See here:

http://www.dxatlas.com/CwSkimmer/

These things can be interfaced with packet to send out spots for
everything they hear!

73, Roger


On 1/24/2012 1:24 PM, Hanford R Wright wrote:
> Hi to the list
> Even though I am an extra I am still a newbe in HF could someone please
> explain what a skimmer is and its function? Thanks in Advance.
> Best 73's
> HANFORD R. WRIGHT  WA4LZC
> CRA # 1515  CCA# AC11-12590
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ken G Kopp
> Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 11:56
> To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?
>
> There are -many- bogus spots showing up on the
> DX Summit site, and most seem to originate from
> "skimmers" running amuck.  W3LPL's seems to
> be among the largest error generators.
>
> 73!
>
> Ken - K0PP
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-- 
Remember the Liberty (AGTR-5)
http://www.usslibertyveterans.org/
http://www.gtr5.com/

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?

[W6NEK]

Go to these websites.  Everything you want to know about CWSkimmer & reverse 
beacons:
http://www.dxatlas.com/CwSkimmer/

http://www.dxatlas.com/CwSkimmer/Files/Skimmerintro.pdf

http://www.reversebeacon.net/

Frank - W6NEK

- Original Message - 
From: "Hanford R Wright" 
To: "'Ken G Kopp'" ; 
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?


> Hi to the list
> Even though I am an extra I am still a newbe in HF could someone please
> explain what a skimmer is and its function? Thanks in Advance.
> Best 73's
> HANFORD R. WRIGHT  WA4LZC
> CRA # 1515  CCA# AC11-12590

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?

[Hanford R Wright]

Hi to the list
Even though I am an extra I am still a newbe in HF could someone please
explain what a skimmer is and its function? Thanks in Advance.  
Best 73's
HANFORD R. WRIGHT  WA4LZC
CRA # 1515  CCA# AC11-12590


-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Ken G Kopp
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 11:56
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?

There are -many- bogus spots showing up on the
DX Summit site, and most seem to originate from
"skimmers" running amuck.  W3LPL's seems to
be among the largest error generators.

73!

Ken - K0PP
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious radiation?

[Thomas Horsten]

Hi John,

I had this happen to me a few days ago where I was calling CQ on 7.015 and
was spotted on 14.0614 by Tim KQ8M's skimmer. I emailed KQ8M to ask him if
there was a problem with his skimmer. He replied that he wouldn't rule out
that the problem was in his Rx setup, but it was tuned to 20m.

Now I was running through the linear and an ATU, and I can't see any
logical relationship between the two frequencies, so I'm leaning to the
theory that his receiver was the culprit, although I did find it very
strange.

I think a lot of RBN skimmers use SoftRock receivers, and I'm guessing that
if his VFO was tuned to 14.050 using the 2nd harmonic of a 7.025
fundamental, it would kind of fit, but I'm still surprised that my 300W
signal to an inverted V was 6dB over the noise on the wrong band in Ohio,
3800 miles away on the other side of the Atlantic... I'm not sure exactly
because I don't know what receiver he was using, but it did have me puzzled
and when I saw John's post I thought I'd mention it.

Here's the spot in question:

 de dx freq cq/dx snr speed time KQ8M
 M0TRN  14061.4 CQ [LoTW] 6 dB 22
wpm 1952z 22 Jan S50ARX 
M0TRN
7015.0 CQ [LoTW] 14 dB 21 wpm 1952z 22 Jan
W3LPL
 M0TRN  7015.0 CQ [LoTW] 14 dB 19
wpm 1952z 22 Jan W3LPL 
M0TRN
7015.0 CQ [LoTW] 14 dB 19 wpm 1952z 22 Jan

73, Thomas M0TRN

On 24 January 2012 13:08, John/K8AZT  wrote:

> I have not been monitoring this mail list much recently so I apologize if
> this
> subject has been discussed previously.
>
> I like to monitor the reversebeacon.net website while calling cq or just
> monitoring looking for a qso.  Recently I have discovered a situation
> which has
> me puzzled and I am hoping someone here might be able to give me some
> insight
> what might be happening.
>
> When calling cq (CW) on 7.0 MHz cw,  I see several hits on the reverse
> beacon
> website on 7.0 MHz, however I have also seen a couple stations allegedly
> hearing
> me on 10.1 MHz (2 occurrences) and a station hearing me on 28 MHz bands (1
> occurrence).  I am hoping this is a problem with the skimmers, but want to
> check
> out if there is anything which might not be right with my K3 and/or antenna
> which might be generating unwanted radiations.  At the moment I do not have
> exact frequencies where I was being monitored.  I just thought someone
> might
> have a suggestion where do I proceed.
>
> At the moment I do not have access to a frequency analyzer, but hope I can
> find
> one to borrow locally.
>
> Thank you for any suggestions/comments anyone in the reflector might have.
>
> 73,
> John/K8AZT
> K3/ SN 1693
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Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Spurious

[ab2tc]

Hi all,

This is a rather long thread and I am not sure how relevant this response
is, but I'll risk it anyway. I use headphones 99% of the time, but when I
need speakers (as when I want other people in the shack to listen in) I use
a pair or of amplified computer speakers by JBL that came with some computer
I bought several years ago. They are pretty decent (you can see them on my
QRZ.com picture) but poorly shielded as expected. They are connected to the
computer sound card's line out and the computer's line in is connected to
the K3's line out. This is very convenient as I don't need a separate pair
of speakers for the radio. If I key up a 5W 2m HT in the shack they hum like
mad. But I have no interference in them from my HF rig simply because my HF
antennas are sufficiently far (not terribly far) removed from the house and
are balanced. It seems to me that if you have a serious problem with RFI
into the amplified speakers in your shack, you are also going to have RFI
into your (poorly shielded) stereo system, TV, telephones and just about any
electronic device in your house (and your neighbor's house). 

AB2TC - Knut


David Cutter wrote:
> 
> Jim
> 
> I know of a military amplified loudspeaker which *should not* suffer from 
> RFI, since it passed the required emc specs for land vehicles.  They're 
> 
> 

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://n2.nabble.com/Spurious-tp4198871p4206052.html
Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

I have # 1239. This happened to me the first time I got in a contest
from home with the K3.  I usually don't bother using headphones unless
there are other ops around. I got called down on the air by a European
station that was up 500 Hz on 20m at the height of the opening.  I was
running 1500 watts. When he called me, his signal was 20 over.  The
unwanted signal was down 44 db (later measurement).  Assuming I was as
loud to him as he was to me, that would make my signal something like
S5 over there.

The problem of course was that the unwanted signal was stable, clean,
well keyed, and very discrete, not spread out like phase noise.

I had the monitor turned up enough to make it comfortable to use the
internal keyer.   Seems I was driving the op up 500 Hz.  I reported it
back then.  The answer was that there was an engineer assigned to it.

But I also got dual external speakers set up to use AFX.  Therefore
the internal speaker was no longer used. Always headphones at the
multi's.  So never an issue.

Since I don't customarily bang things off my K3, microphonics were not
a problem.

Also, I learned that if I use the tones from CW keyers driven by MM
over Winkey and run the paddle leads there instead I don't have the
processing delay between pressing paddle and the baud, and I key more
accurately.  So now at home I don't use the monitor either.

Out of sight, out of mind.  This is probably why it hasn't garnered
more attention.

Also I suspect that Wayne is paying more attention to the nits and
gnats that seem to be the gist of typical complaints, All the Princess
and the Pea kinds of audio complaints. Or the texture of the paint on
panels.  What happens when you expand the customer base beyond mojo
drinking K2 kit builders, and some buy the radio as a fashion
accessory.

Wrapping the VCO in a foam that is in turn held by a holder would do
it, but all the solutions are cramped by the tight spaces in there,
and frankly I rather like the small size of all that functionality.
It's likely not nearly so simple as it appears from this distance. It
may have a magnetic component.

73, Guy.

On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 8:17 AM, Don Wilhelm  wrote:
> Jim,
> Can you be specific about your perception that there are a "lot of
> workarounds".  I consider this to be the only one.
> There are enhancements being worked on - ideas that have mainly come
> from requests on this reflector, but those are not hardware related like
> this one seems to be.
>
> I wonder why  this has not been seen before - surely many have used the
> internal speaker over the past 3 years, but then again, perhaps not
> often, I use external speakers, and many use headphones.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
>
> Jan Erik Holm wrote:
>> There sure are a lot of workarounds with the K3, the
>> list is quite long by now.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious

[Jan Erik Holm]

Yes

Tuning pulses, diod and resistor fix
Lots of spurs here and there, FW workaround fix

IMO that is serious design flaws and and the
fixes are sort of workarounds on the design,
I would not call the fixes enhancements.

Those two just from the top of my head.

On the internal speaker: I never use it when I operate,
I always use a headset or if CW well headphones then.
So for me this thing doesn´t matter since I never use
the speaker.

But there are always "things wrong" with new radios,
flaws in the design, we just need to be objective
about the but my feeling is that most on this list
are far from that.

All in all I´m still happy with the K3 and wouldn´t
like to be without it.

73 Jim SM2EKM

Don Wilhelm wrote:
> Jim,
> Can you be specific about your perception that there are a "lot of 
> workarounds".  I consider this to be the only one.
> There are enhancements being worked on - ideas that have mainly come 
> from requests on this reflector, but those are not hardware related like 
> this one seems to be.
> 
> I wonder why  this has not been seen before - surely many have used the 
> internal speaker over the past 3 years, but then again, perhaps not 
> often, I use external speakers, and many use headphones.
> 
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
> 
> 
> Jan Erik Holm wrote:
>> There sure are a lot of workarounds with the K3, the
>> list is quite long by now.
>>
>> Jim
>>  
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious

[Don Wilhelm]

Jim,
Can you be specific about your perception that there are a "lot of 
workarounds".  I consider this to be the only one.
There are enhancements being worked on - ideas that have mainly come 
from requests on this reflector, but those are not hardware related like 
this one seems to be.

I wonder why  this has not been seen before - surely many have used the 
internal speaker over the past 3 years, but then again, perhaps not 
often, I use external speakers, and many use headphones.

73,
Don W3FPR


Jan Erik Holm wrote:
> There sure are a lot of workarounds with the K3, the
> list is quite long by now.
>
> Jim
>   
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious

[Jan Erik Holm]

There sure are a lot of workarounds with the K3, the
list is quite long by now.

Jim
-
Zoli Pitman HA1AG wrote:
> This is not a solution. It is a workaround. :)
> 
> 73,  zoli ha1ag 
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message 
> Yes, a well known issue for a LONG time...with a SUPER EASY solution.
> 
> It is indeed due to the internal speaker.
> 
> A year or so ago, I got a call from a local (a couple miles away) that
> he had a "spurious" on his K3 (I helped him build it).  I listened,
> yes it was there.  When he switched from the internal speaker to
> headphones, it was gone.  I think he ended up using an external
> speaker which also solved the problem (some guys like speakers!).
> 
> de Doug KR2Q
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious

[Wayne Burdick]

We're working on it.

Wayne

On Dec 22, 2009, at 12:32 AM, Zoli Pitman HA1AG wrote:

> This is not a solution. It is a workaround. :)
>
> 73,  zoli ha1ag
>
>
>
> - Original Message 
> Yes, a well known issue for a LONG time...with a SUPER EASY solution.
>
> It is indeed due to the internal speaker.
>
> A year or so ago, I got a call from a local (a couple miles away) that
> he had a "spurious" on his K3 (I helped him build it).  I listened,
> yes it was there.  When he switched from the internal speaker to
> headphones, it was gone.  I think he ended up using an external
> speaker which also solved the problem (some guys like speakers!).
>
> de Doug KR2Q
>
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious

[Zoli Pitman HA1AG]

This is not a solution. It is a workaround. :)

73,  zoli ha1ag 



- Original Message 
Yes, a well known issue for a LONG time...with a SUPER EASY solution.

It is indeed due to the internal speaker.

A year or so ago, I got a call from a local (a couple miles away) that
he had a "spurious" on his K3 (I helped him build it).  I listened,
yes it was there.  When he switched from the internal speaker to
headphones, it was gone.  I think he ended up using an external
speaker which also solved the problem (some guys like speakers!).

de Doug KR2Q


  
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 spurious

[srife]

Is there a permanent fix (mod) for this? Not sure whether I have the
problem or not.


Stan Rife 
W5EWA 



-Original Message-
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
[mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 6:58 PM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 spurious

Yes, a well known issue for a LONG time...with a SUPER EASY solution.

It is indeed due to the internal speaker.

A year or so ago, I got a call from a local (a couple miles away) that
he had a "spurious" on his K3 (I helped him build it).  I listened,
yes it was there.  When he switched from the internal speaker to
headphones, it was gone.  I think he ended up using an external
speaker which also solved the problem (some guys like speakers!).

de Doug KR2Q
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Re: [Elecraft] ***K3 Spurious Problem Alert***

[Guy Olinger K2AV]

This problem was reported about TRANSMITTED spurs, not spurs heard in K3
receiver.   73, Guy.

2009/11/9 Björn Mohr 

> On 2 nov 2009, at 12.02, Bill W4ZV wrote:
>
> > Two Topband buddies have now reported a bad spur with relatively new
> > K3s
> > (April or May 2009) at only 20 dB down about 16 kHz from the
> > fundamental.
>
> I found it useful to fiddle with the routing of the coax cables from
> the synthesizer modules to minimize the level of spurs. It won't
> completely remove them, but at least it improved the situation. I have
> an early K3 in the serial # 200 range and many spurs where introduced
> when the sub RX was installed.
>
> I know I have at least one spur on topband that I have "masked" using
> the signal remove function. As I am travelling I cannot check the
> frequency of it right now.
>
> 73 de Björn,
> SM0MDG
> SE0X
>
>
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Re: [Elecraft] ***K3 Spurious Problem Alert***

[Björn Mohr]

On 2 nov 2009, at 12.02, Bill W4ZV wrote:

> Two Topband buddies have now reported a bad spur with relatively new  
> K3s
> (April or May 2009) at only 20 dB down about 16 kHz from the  
> fundamental.

I found it useful to fiddle with the routing of the coax cables from  
the synthesizer modules to minimize the level of spurs. It won't  
completely remove them, but at least it improved the situation. I have  
an early K3 in the serial # 200 range and many spurs where introduced  
when the sub RX was installed.

I know I have at least one spur on topband that I have "masked" using  
the signal remove function. As I am travelling I cannot check the  
frequency of it right now.

73 de Björn,
SM0MDG
SE0X


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Re: [Elecraft] ***K3 Spurious Problem Alert***

[Bill Tippett]

On 2 nov 2009, at 12.02, Bill W4ZV wrote:
>
>  Two Topband buddies have now reported a bad spur with relatively new K3s
>> (April or May 2009) at only 20 dB down about 16 kHz from the fundamental.
>>
>
2009/11/8 Björn Mohr  wrote:

>
> I found it useful to fiddle with the routing of the coax cables from the
> synthesizer modules to minimize the level of spurs. It won't completely
> remove them, but at least it improved the situation. I have an early K3 in
> the serial # 200 range and many spurs where introduced when the sub RX was
> installed.
>
> I know I have at least one spur on topband that I have "masked" using the
> signal remove function. As I am travelling I cannot check the frequency of
> it right now.
>

Björn, just to clarify, the 16 kHz spur mentioned above is **NOT** a RX spur
but a **transmitted** spur.  This is caused by an extra capacitor on the
KPA3 board which should have been removed in production.  This spur is not
caused by cable routing as is the case for some RX spurs.  This problem
affected ~50 units in the range of S/N 3000 and produced in April/May 2009.
Elecraft attempted to contact the owners of these units but apparently a few
did escape.  It just so happened that two of these were good Topband friends
(AA1K and K3ZM) who bought their K3s on my recommendation.

If your K3 is near S/N 3000, I would strongly encourage you to have someone
check that your unit is not transmitting a strong (-20 dB) spur ~16 kHz from
the fundamental.  The solution was described in my original post and is
relatively easy to implement.

73,  Bill  W4ZV
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Re: [Elecraft] K3 Spurious TX Spur

[Don Wilhelm]

Walt,

I suggest that the K3 owner contact k3supp...@elecraft.com for assistance.
Many on-the-air comments that I have heard pass along inaccurate 
information (about many subjects, not just the K3).  The only K3 mods 
that I know about involving diodes are the KPA3 12V Sense Mod and theK3 
VFO Noise Mod - these *add* diodes, and AFAIK, neither of these has been 
known to create spurs, and definitely do not  involve "clipping a diode" 
- most of the  K3 diodes are SMD, and I just cannot  relate "clipping" 
to "removal" - methinks that fellow was misinformed.

73,
Don W3FPR

Walter Miller, AJ6T wrote:
> My buddy K1VW, who is not on this reflector, asked me to look into a 
> problem with his K3, and I am turning to the reflector for assistance.  
> John received a report from another station (not a local) of a spurious 
> emission while transmitting CW on 160 meters.  Evidently the spur was 
> loud enough to attract some attention.  I searched the reflector 
> archives for the past six months and did find anything on this topic.  
> The other station mentioned that this is a known problem with the K3, 
> and that the fix involves clipping a diode.  This is all second-hand 
> information to me, and that is all I know about the situation.  Any 
> suggestions?
>
> Walt, AJ6T
>   
>
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Re: [Elecraft] K3: spurious CW T/R switching while VOX off

[Graham Kimbell (G3TCT)]

Mario said
> What I noticed is that in CW mode, with VOX/QSK to OFF, when
> accidentally hitting the paddle, the T/R and all the other connected
> relays would spring into "full-qsk-style" action, ie. activate for
> each single dot (with PTT/XMit not pressed). No HF is being generated.
>

I agree entirely with Mario and I don't understand what purpose this serves.
Given that the TX test function disables rf but allows keying of external
amps etc, it seems odd to allow the same thing to happen with TX norm and
VOX off.
Why did 90% of the focus group think this was useful?

Graham

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Re: [Elecraft] K3: spurious CW T/R switching while VOX off

[Alexandr Kobranov]

Hi Mario,

this is very long time known behavior see

http://www.zerobeat.net/smf/index.php?topic=215.0

This is not error as output port is KEY OUT not PTT OUT :-)

But you described common experience with this, I had the same with 
VHF/UHF stuff connected to K3 - more complex system (as I have for 
23cm QRP EME station, stricly in PTT mode) is reacting to accidentally 
pressed Key and first experience was very stressy As no RF is 
going out, no demages in system, but...


There is some ways, how to control - having external PTT system 
activating Key input is one approach, there are some others.


But you are right - the rest of my eqp (FT1000, FT897, TS850) dos not 
activate control line when in PTT mode.


GL, 73!
Lexa, OK1DST
K3/10 #727

Mario Lorenz napsal(a):

Hi,

I have brought my K3 to our local club station to see how the K3
would play within a contest setting. We use the external T/R
output to control various things, like the PA.

What I noticed is that in CW mode, with VOX/QSK to OFF, when
accidentally hitting the paddle, the T/R and all the other connected
relays would spring into "full-qsk-style" action, ie. activate for
each single dot (with PTT/XMit not pressed). No HF is being generated.

Normal behaviour (with any other radio) would be no action at all -
Since the K3 Manual says that when VOX is not active, one MUST either
push PTT or the XMIT button to transmit, I regarded this behaviour as
an error and duly reported it to Elecraft.

Thats what I received as an answer:

"We hashed this out for months in our focus group. This is the behavior
 that  probably 90% of our customers prefer. But I've noted it for a possible
 future menu entry."

I'm now somewhat at a loss. I absolutely cannot imagine any possible
reason why someone would want the T/R switch when accidentally hitting
the CW paddle, and thus also cannot see why this would need to be
configurable (since menu entries, as was explained earlier, are a limited
resource).

Hello "focus group", as it obviously was a hot topic in some
discussions, would you mind sharing even one single use case in favour
of this behaviour ?

Mario


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