Re: [Elecraft] MMTTY DATA-A or FSK
Excuse me while I learn what questions to ask, Wondering if there is a logging and more program that will allow use of CW and the PSK D and FSK D modes of my KX3 in a more complete application than the KX3 utility terminal? Secondly...how do you tune in stations using PSK D and FSK D? I find it very difficuly especially with other psk and rtty stations nearby. I haven't gotten NAP3 or the KX3Companion to tune correctly as yet except for SSB and CW wher they do a fine job. Rob KA5QQA On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 11:56 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: > > On 2014-10-02 12:03 PM, dm...@nexicom.net wrote:> > > > >> Joe you are correct that if there are physical problems and poor >> adjustments it will be bad but I was assuming a good working setup >> with a quality sound card that is properly adjusted at both the >> computer and K3 that it will be fine. >> > > Unfortunately, that is not a good assumption. Even the best of > stations with *professional* operators and maintenance can have > adjustment problems or equipment failures (I've documented such > even at W1AW in the last couple years). When you add in the > relative inexperience of someone new at sound card based digital > modes, conditions become very bad very quickly and I can provide > example after example of maladjusted rigs, improperly operating > home brew interfaces, etc. > > At least, by placing a narrow filter in the transmit audio path, > the K3 prevents the greatest number of those errors. Other rigs > with no monitor, no audio controls, ineffective ALC, and no audio > filtering become QRM generators if one looks at them cross-eyed. > > 73, > >... Joe, W4TV > > > > On 2014-10-02 12:03 PM, dm...@nexicom.net wrote: > >> >> >> Joe you are correct that if there are physical problems and poor >> adjustments it will be bad but I was assuming a good working setup with >> a quality sound card that is properly adjusted at both the computer and >> K3 that it will be fine. >> >> I hope that they add the ability to monitor Transmit signal on the >> P3 to see how it looks going out. however you can see your real signal >> by watching your signal on the many online SDR's, http://websdr.org/, >> that have waterfall displays in real time. >> >> >> David Moes >> VE3DVY >> >> >> On Thursday 02/10/2014 at 9:01 am, "Joe Subich, W4TV" wrote: >> >>> >>> risk is any off frequency noise from the sound card, harmonics etc will also get transmitted not really a big issue if the sound card is good quality. >>> >>> Not quite accurate ... one can have a professional quality sound card >>> and if the levels are too high, the connections are not correct, the >>> ground gets opened, one has a significant degree of common mode RF on >>> the feedline, one has power supply issues, etc. DATA_A can be very >>> badly distorted/wide. AFSK A is not subject to those issues as long >>> as the narrow filter (CONFIG: AFSK TX) is enabled. >>> >>> 73, >>> >>>... Joe, W4TV >>> >>> >>> On 2014-10-02 7:30 AM, david Moes wrote: >>> With AFSK-A the K3 has very a narrow DSP filter to maintain a really good transmit IMD so you need to keep the modulating frequencies within the chosen preset filter range 1275 in my setup. You can use the waterfall to tune but you need to use DATA-A instead of AFSK-A risk is any off frequency noise from the sound card, harmonics etc will also get transmitted not really a big issue if the sound card is good quality. I found that with the P3 the markers lined up with the mark frequency so tuning with the VFO was quite convenient without the P3 I may have been more tempted to use Data-A and tuning with the mouse David Moes President: Peterborough Amateur Radio Club. dm...@nexicom.net VE3DVY, VE3SD On 10/2/2014 06:32, David Cole wrote: > > Why only tune the radio, and not use the Waterfall? > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to li...@subich.com __ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> Message delivered to dm...@nexicom.net >>> >> >> __ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Elecraft
Re: [Elecraft] MMTTY DATA-A or FSK
On 2014-10-02 12:03 PM, dm...@nexicom.net wrote:> > Joe you are correct that if there are physical problems and poor adjustments it will be bad but I was assuming a good working setup with a quality sound card that is properly adjusted at both the computer and K3 that it will be fine. Unfortunately, that is not a good assumption. Even the best of stations with *professional* operators and maintenance can have adjustment problems or equipment failures (I've documented such even at W1AW in the last couple years). When you add in the relative inexperience of someone new at sound card based digital modes, conditions become very bad very quickly and I can provide example after example of maladjusted rigs, improperly operating home brew interfaces, etc. At least, by placing a narrow filter in the transmit audio path, the K3 prevents the greatest number of those errors. Other rigs with no monitor, no audio controls, ineffective ALC, and no audio filtering become QRM generators if one looks at them cross-eyed. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2014-10-02 12:03 PM, dm...@nexicom.net wrote: Joe you are correct that if there are physical problems and poor adjustments it will be bad but I was assuming a good working setup with a quality sound card that is properly adjusted at both the computer and K3 that it will be fine. I hope that they add the ability to monitor Transmit signal on the P3 to see how it looks going out. however you can see your real signal by watching your signal on the many online SDR's, http://websdr.org/, that have waterfall displays in real time. David Moes VE3DVY On Thursday 02/10/2014 at 9:01 am, "Joe Subich, W4TV" wrote: risk is any off frequency noise from the sound card, harmonics etc will also get transmitted not really a big issue if the sound card is good quality. Not quite accurate ... one can have a professional quality sound card and if the levels are too high, the connections are not correct, the ground gets opened, one has a significant degree of common mode RF on the feedline, one has power supply issues, etc. DATA_A can be very badly distorted/wide. AFSK A is not subject to those issues as long as the narrow filter (CONFIG: AFSK TX) is enabled. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2014-10-02 7:30 AM, david Moes wrote: With AFSK-A the K3 has very a narrow DSP filter to maintain a really good transmit IMD so you need to keep the modulating frequencies within the chosen preset filter range 1275 in my setup. You can use the waterfall to tune but you need to use DATA-A instead of AFSK-A risk is any off frequency noise from the sound card, harmonics etc will also get transmitted not really a big issue if the sound card is good quality. I found that with the P3 the markers lined up with the mark frequency so tuning with the VFO was quite convenient without the P3 I may have been more tempted to use Data-A and tuning with the mouse David Moes President: Peterborough Amateur Radio Club. dm...@nexicom.net VE3DVY, VE3SD On 10/2/2014 06:32, David Cole wrote: Why only tune the radio, and not use the Waterfall? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to li...@subich.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to dm...@nexicom.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to li...@subich.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] MMTTY DATA-A or FSK
Gents, I will look at the Fred Cady KX3 manual, but are those AFSK TX filters or similar filter, applied to the RTTY TX when using HRD, fldigi, N1MM, or for that matter the KX3 Companion or others by selecting the AFSK mode on the KX3? Rob KA5QQA > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] MMTTY DATA-A or FSK
Joe you are correct that if there are physical problems and poor adjustments it will be bad but I was assuming a good working setup with a quality sound card that is properly adjusted at both the computer and K3 that it will be fine. I hope that they add the ability to monitor Transmit signal on the P3 to see how it looks going out. however you can see your real signal by watching your signal on the many online SDR's, http://websdr.org/, that have waterfall displays in real time. David Moes VE3DVY On Thursday 02/10/2014 at 9:01 am, "Joe Subich, W4TV" wrote: risk is any off frequency noise from the sound card, harmonics etc will also get transmitted not really a big issue if the sound card is good quality. Not quite accurate ... one can have a professional quality sound card and if the levels are too high, the connections are not correct, the ground gets opened, one has a significant degree of common mode RF on the feedline, one has power supply issues, etc. DATA_A can be very badly distorted/wide. AFSK A is not subject to those issues as long as the narrow filter (CONFIG: AFSK TX) is enabled. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2014-10-02 7:30 AM, david Moes wrote: With AFSK-A the K3 has very a narrow DSP filter to maintain a really good transmit IMD so you need to keep the modulating frequencies within the chosen preset filter range 1275 in my setup. You can use the waterfall to tune but you need to use DATA-A instead of AFSK-A risk is any off frequency noise from the sound card, harmonics etc will also get transmitted not really a big issue if the sound card is good quality. I found that with the P3 the markers lined up with the mark frequency so tuning with the VFO was quite convenient without the P3 I may have been more tempted to use Data-A and tuning with the mouse David Moes President: Peterborough Amateur Radio Club. dm...@nexicom.net VE3DVY, VE3SD On 10/2/2014 06:32, David Cole wrote: Why only tune the radio, and not use the Waterfall? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to li...@subich.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to dm...@nexicom.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] MMTTY DATA-A or FSK
I am new to the K3, but started RTTY many years ago. My preference has always been for FSK keying whenever possible. I have used Writelog for many years and have found MMTTY to be preferable to RTTYrite which is the included default. I also like MMTTY and I also like FSK keying :) I am awaiting arrival of a K3-Digikeyer cable to test my new K3/10 on RTTY with FSK. Answered some questions I had, thanks. On Oct 2, 2014, at 8:19 AM, Brian Moran via Elecraft wrote: > We used two K3s for a M/2 in last weeks's contest, and did over 2000 Q's; I > second the N1MM / FSK recommendation, as there are few variables to manage if > I don't have to worry about TX levels. -- http://www.qrz.com/db/k7on __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] MMTTY DATA-A or FSK
We used two K3s for a M/2 in last weeks's contest, and did over 2000 Q's; I second the N1MM / FSK recommendation, as there are few variables to manage if I don't have to worry about TX levels. Also, it's definitely an opinion, but on the receive side, I personally dislike seeing other ops using ENTERLFs in macros during contests, as it can lead to "chasing the information up the screen" on the receive side. It's possible to click on a call in the MMTTY receive window to get it to enter into the logger using N1MM/MMTTY, which is one of the nice features. With ENTERLF printing, if one clicks a fraction of a second too late, the information has scrolled. A couple of spaces (double bag!) can do the job of resetting the decoder to letters instead. Don't even get me started on unusual exchanges. A long exchange that's different from everyone else e.g. "PLEASE COPY 5NN CALIFORNIA CALIFORNIA BTU" instead of "599 03 CA" isn't doing you any favor. Don't forget the K3 has a built-in data decoder, for an additional vote on what the other station sent, if MMTTY and 2-Tone aren't enough. Brian N9ADG On Thursday, October 2, 2014 6:00 AM, "Joe Subich, W4TV" wrote: > risk is any off frequency noise from the sound card, harmonics etc > will also get transmitted not really a big issue if the sound card is > good quality. Not quite accurate ... one can have a professional quality sound card and if the levels are too high, the connections are not correct, the ground gets opened, one has a significant degree of common mode RF on the feedline, one has power supply issues, etc. DATA_A can be very badly distorted/wide. AFSK A is not subject to those issues as long as the narrow filter (CONFIG: AFSK TX) is enabled. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2014-10-02 7:30 AM, david Moes wrote: > With AFSK-A the K3 has very a narrow DSP filter to maintain a really > good transmit IMD so you need to keep the modulating frequencies > within the chosen preset filter range 1275 in my setup. You can use > the waterfall to tune but you need to use DATA-A instead of AFSK-A risk > is any off frequency noise from the sound card, harmonics etc will also > get transmitted not really a big issue if the sound card is good > quality. I found that with the P3 the markers lined up with the mark > frequency so tuning with the VFO was quite convenient without the P3 I > may have been more tempted to use Data-A and tuning with the mouse > > David Moes > President: Peterborough Amateur Radio Club. > dm...@nexicom.net > VE3DVY, VE3SD > > On 10/2/2014 06:32, David Cole wrote: >> Why only tune the radio, and not use the Waterfall? > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to li...@subich.com > __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to bria...@yahoo.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] MMTTY DATA-A or FSK
risk is any off frequency noise from the sound card, harmonics etc will also get transmitted not really a big issue if the sound card is good quality. Not quite accurate ... one can have a professional quality sound card and if the levels are too high, the connections are not correct, the ground gets opened, one has a significant degree of common mode RF on the feedline, one has power supply issues, etc. DATA_A can be very badly distorted/wide. AFSK A is not subject to those issues as long as the narrow filter (CONFIG: AFSK TX) is enabled. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2014-10-02 7:30 AM, david Moes wrote: With AFSK-A the K3 has very a narrow DSP filter to maintain a really good transmit IMD so you need to keep the modulating frequencies within the chosen preset filter range 1275 in my setup. You can use the waterfall to tune but you need to use DATA-A instead of AFSK-A risk is any off frequency noise from the sound card, harmonics etc will also get transmitted not really a big issue if the sound card is good quality. I found that with the P3 the markers lined up with the mark frequency so tuning with the VFO was quite convenient without the P3 I may have been more tempted to use Data-A and tuning with the mouse David Moes President: Peterborough Amateur Radio Club. dm...@nexicom.net VE3DVY, VE3SD On 10/2/2014 06:32, David Cole wrote: Why only tune the radio, and not use the Waterfall? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to li...@subich.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] MMTTY DATA-A or FSK
With AFSK-A the K3 has very a narrow DSP filter to maintain a really good transmit IMD so you need to keep the modulating frequencies within the chosen preset filter range 1275 in my setup. You can use the waterfall to tune but you need to use DATA-A instead of AFSK-A risk is any off frequency noise from the sound card, harmonics etc will also get transmitted not really a big issue if the sound card is good quality. I found that with the P3 the markers lined up with the mark frequency so tuning with the VFO was quite convenient without the P3 I may have been more tempted to use Data-A and tuning with the mouse David Moes President: Peterborough Amateur Radio Club. dm...@nexicom.net VE3DVY, VE3SD On 10/2/2014 06:32, David Cole wrote: Why only tune the radio, and not use the Waterfall? __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] MMTTY DATA-A or FSK
Hi all. I strongly disagree with the words that say DATA, thus AFSK - whistle tones , is the better RTTY contest modes. There are, from my point of several points against this theory. Nor AFSK is the best non contest mode for RTTY. It's just for casual operations, often with radio that doesn't have FSK or have false FSK using two audio oscillators manipulated by the FSK external signal. Luckily or beloved K3 is a real RTTY FSK radio, non a mimicker like some other brands. The main points I see against AFSK are: 1) Whistling the tones, even if the K3 have a TX ALC control much better than other radios it's too much prone to the attention of any operator, that could become low and low hour after our when in contest 1.a) this is true even if our K3 have a great approach to ALC control when in digital modes 2) Tones IMD of the default AFSK emission is high, the generated BF signal, worst when used more down than 2000 Hz, will affect the RTTY signal to be on air 2.a) partial solution is to enhance the standard DSP filtering of the MMTTY BF generated tones using MMTTY Setup - into the TX tab - changing TxBPF/TxLPF to set, at least, TxBFP enabled and Tap to 512 - this could affect performances on the low edged PC ... but look with the "f" button, just nearby: what a difference! (it's just a picture generated by tap number, but real life look like it) 3) since last year new firmware the K3 have a more and more pure routines to generate the tones manipulation switching issue - this syndrome affect any real FSK transceiver. The quality of the LSB NORMAL tones is really now excellent and much better than any other radio. Giving at least those 3 points and their reversed effects I say that FSK with the K3 is the better way to with it. More stable on AGC control - that indeed isn't any more needed - more clear and crispy tones even with low tones pair. Anecdotally I could affirm than since the FSK FW changes I have much more problems of other contester signals proximity even with the PA and a lot of elements well high on the roof. East and North European stations are gliding too near to me, times over times. This is happening in both the main direction directions where I could aim the aerials, a 16x3 and a 3 el. Quad. Thus when pointing JA I will pass over East Europe but nevertheless a lot of East operators come well into my tight RUN set-up filter, 400 Hz used a 500 Hz. This mean that they don't have any serious problem with my signal, even with the PA and what I consider a big gain aerial ... plenty of signal strength... I have often to move out of the mess they are making with those near and pesky signals into my filter. Driving roofing filter down to the 250Hz used at 350 Hz is not a viable option all the time. Better to maintain the rate finding another QRG much clear. So, I will vote for RTTY-L, never for DATA-A or AFSK forever with those well known 3 conditions. 73 de iw1ayd Salvo PS BTW 2Tone already have the purest filters for AFSK audio tones generation to whistle. The Author have already solved the worst tones issues since the start. Also FLDIGI use strict DSP filtering, but also add, as 2Tone - my memory - some other techniques to prevent tone IMD since the Sound Interfaces signal generations. But not all Sound Interfaces are the same. But all the radio are the quite the (out of some native SDR) for TX filtering. The choice of high tones, > 2000 Hz, is anyway a must, even if clicking on RTTY signals with the mouse! __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] MMTTY DATA-A or FSK
Why only tune the radio, and not use the Waterfall? -- Thanks and 73's, For equipment, and software setups and reviews see: www.nk7z.net for MixW support see; http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info for Dopplergram information see: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info for MM-SSTV see: http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info On Wed, 2014-10-01 at 22:31 -0400, Don Wilhelm wrote: > David, > > Actually, MMTTY and data sub-mode AFSK-A on the K3 will give you the > best transmitter IMD. With MMTTY, you would tune with the K3 VFO rather > than clicking on a waterfall display - this is a computer soundcard > application of MMTTY. > > If you prefer to click on a waterfall display, then an application other > than MMTTY should be used. > > Yes, you can do FSK-D with MMTTY, and that requires a "one transistor > interface" to drive the K3 ACC connector pin 1. Some prefer that > approach because it avoids setting the soundcard levels correctly for > transmit. The choice is yours to make. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > On 10/1/2014 10:06 PM, david Moes wrote: > > I have dabbled a bit with RTTY mostly with the Centenial and some DX > > but this past weekend I thought Ill give the CQWW-RTTY a try. spent a > > little time and got things working using N1MM and MMVARI using DATA-A > > relying on the P3 for waterfall display. It seems I got bitten by > > the RTTY contest bug because I loved it. So here is the question to > > the serious RTTY contester. what is the ideal setup. is MMTTY and > > DATA-A best or should I interface for fsk. and is MMTTY the best > > option here? and more important what is the best way to do this both > > from software and hardware setup. > > > > __ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to d...@nk7z.net __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] MMTTY DATA-A or FSK
Thanks everyone for the advice. sounds like I was well on the right track. I just wasn't sure if I should go with FSK seems I don't need to.I have seen references to using multiple decode screens and was on the research list glad you mentioned it Jim. I have a good dedicated sound card for AFSK and have been using it for a long time for other digital modes and analog sstv etc. so no worries there. and yep I did have it AFSK-A not DATA-A as I wrote in the OP sorry about that confusion. As far as padding the messages with a line feed and space at the end yep found many ops that didn't do that and was hard to know which was the first or last letter of a call vs decoded noise sometimes like this "LKASDFVE3SD 599 04 ON VE3SDYUBDS ASJD AGWSW" very Confusing. I quickly confirmed I had a leading and trailing space on all macros when I realised what was happening so I wasn't doing the same thing to others. I didn't add the line feed Ill revisit that before next contest. All good advice Thanks David Moes President: Peterborough Amateur Radio Club. dm...@nexicom.net VE3DVY, VE3SD __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] MMTTY DATA-A or FSK
To give equal time to other equally good logging software, I run my K3 in D-FSK via a homebrew LED Isolator Interface with Win-Test (not free) plus MMTTY, or DXLog (free at www.dxlog.net) with both MMTTY and 2Tone. 73 --> Dave, W9PA -Original Message- From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of david Moes Sent: Wednesday, 01 October, 2014 22:07 To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net Subject: [Elecraft] MMTTY DATA-A or FSK I have dabbled a bit with RTTY mostly with the Centenial and some DX but this past weekend I thought Ill give the CQWW-RTTY a try. spent a little time and got things working using N1MM and MMVARI using DATA-A relying on the P3 for waterfall display. It seems I got bitten by the RTTY contest bug because I loved it. So here is the question to the serious RTTY contester. what is the ideal setup. is MMTTY and DATA-A best or should I interface for fsk. and is MMTTY the best option here? and more important what is the best way to do this both from software and hardware setup. -- David Moes President: Peterborough Amateur Radio Club. dm...@nexicom.net VE3DVY, VE3SD __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to ze...@indy.rr.com __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] MMTTY DATA-A or FSK
I really hate Line Feeds (the ENTER). Especially when you're running
several decode windows, they must be pretty small, and a few Line
Feeds will scroll too much stuff out of the window! What I like much
better is a leading space and a trailing space for every F-Key
message. Those spaces are enough to separate your call and exchange
from whatever other stuff is on the screen, because N1MM and WriteLog
will highlight calls. And if that space is there, you can click on
the call (and parts of the exchange), which will copy them to the
data entry window!
While I dislike those who use multiple Line Feeds, I absolutely despise
those who do not start their transmission with *one* Line Feed. Without
the linefeed, the cursor is not returned to be start of the line and
the call gets buried in the garble (decoded noise) somewhere toward the
end of the line. The call decoding/highlighting routines in N1MM and
WriteLog are good but they do have their peculiarities ... and will
either highlight more than the call or will only highlight calls in the
"known calls" file - which means they will miss new contesters, those
just working a few stations/new DX, or those who do not submit logs on
a regular basis.
By starting each transmission with {ENTER} the call is almost always
in the first dozen or so spaces on the bottom line of the decode window
and each to "click" if one is using a mouse or right in the center if
view if one is working from the keyboard.
73,
... Joe, W4TV
On 2014-10-01 11:36 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
On Wed,10/1/2014 7:47 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
Start every transmission with {TX}{ENTER}TEXT and follow the text by
one space and {RX}.
What Fred means is that TEXT is what you want to send with that F-key. :)
The {ENTER} starts you on his next line, clear of any garbage he's
printed before you answered or called. The space at the end of your
transmission clears you of the noise he's going to print as soon as
your MARK goes away.
I really hate Line Feeds (the ENTER). Especially when you're running
several decode windows, they must be pretty small, and a few Line Feeds
will scroll too much stuff out of the window! What I like much better is
a leading space and a trailing space for every F-Key message. Those
spaces are enough to separate your call and exchange from whatever other
stuff is on the screen, because N1MM and WriteLog will highlight calls.
And if that space is there, you can click on the call (and parts of the
exchange), which will copy them to the data entry window!
I agree with all of Fred's other advice, except that when I'm running, I
send the other guy's call again at the end of the exchange if I think
there is QRM, or if I doubled with him because he sent his call again
after I had begun responding. Also, in S&P, I send nothing but the
exchange UNLESS I think he mis-copied my call, in which case I'll send
it again, twice, then send the exchange.
One of the rules of contesting (and DXing) is NEVER send something the
other guy has already gotten right. That can be tricky to know with
RTTY, because decoders often make mistakes on calls. In contesting, if
he gets your call wrong, HE loses points but you do not. And it's good
sportsmanship to try to correct him.
73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] MMTTY DATA-A or FSK
On Wed,10/1/2014 7:47 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
Start every transmission with {TX}{ENTER}TEXT and follow the text by
one space and {RX}.
What Fred means is that TEXT is what you want to send with that F-key. :)
The {ENTER} starts you on his next line, clear of any garbage he's
printed before you answered or called. The space at the end of your
transmission clears you of the noise he's going to print as soon as
your MARK goes away.
I really hate Line Feeds (the ENTER). Especially when you're running
several decode windows, they must be pretty small, and a few Line Feeds
will scroll too much stuff out of the window! What I like much better is
a leading space and a trailing space for every F-Key message. Those
spaces are enough to separate your call and exchange from whatever other
stuff is on the screen, because N1MM and WriteLog will highlight calls.
And if that space is there, you can click on the call (and parts of the
exchange), which will copy them to the data entry window!
I agree with all of Fred's other advice, except that when I'm running, I
send the other guy's call again at the end of the exchange if I think
there is QRM, or if I doubled with him because he sent his call again
after I had begun responding. Also, in S&P, I send nothing but the
exchange UNLESS I think he mis-copied my call, in which case I'll send
it again, twice, then send the exchange.
One of the rules of contesting (and DXing) is NEVER send something the
other guy has already gotten right. That can be tricky to know with
RTTY, because decoders often make mistakes on calls. In contesting, if
he gets your call wrong, HE loses points but you do not. And it's good
sportsmanship to try to correct him.
73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] MMTTY DATA-A or FSK
On 10/1/2014 7:06 PM, david Moes wrote:
I have dabbled a bit with RTTY mostly with the Centenial and some DX but
this past weekend I thought Ill give the CQWW-RTTY a try. spent a
little time and got things working using N1MM and MMVARI using DATA-A
relying on the P3 for waterfall display. It seems I got bitten by the
RTTY contest bug because I loved it. So here is the question to the
serious RTTY contester. what is the ideal setup. is MMTTY and DATA-A
best or should I interface for fsk. and is MMTTY the best option here?
and more important what is the best way to do this both from software
and hardware setup.
There are as many answers as there are people on this list, David. I
run minimalist for 295 Q's in the RTTY this last weekend in about 7 hrs
of operation. Two Radio Shack stereo cables, computer line out goes to
K3 line in, K3 line out goes to computer line in, I run N1MM and MMTTY.
I did finally put a 10 dB audio pad in the cable to the computer line
in, the K3 was a little hot for it, but it worked fine without the pad
too, just a tad touchy. VOX keys the K3.
With a K3 and its incredibly clean audio, AFSK and direct FSK are
essentially indistinguishable if your sound card is clean, and most are
these days ... you can get really good ones, see K9YC's website --
audiosystemsgroup.com
There are many who use various interfaces -- SignalLink, Microham, and
others, and those who use direct FSK, it seems like a lot of questions
arise with this extra hardware, but I've never used any of it so I'm not
the guy to expound on them, I've just never needed them and they were
more software running on my logging computer.
One thing with N1MM ... be sure to define your RTTY macro file to it for
each contest so it knows which macros to load. And a few tips, take as
you wish.
Start every transmission with {TX}{ENTER}TEXT and follow the text by one
space and {RX}.
The {ENTER} starts you on his next line, clear of any garbage he's
printed before you answered or called. The space at the end of your
transmission clears you of the noise he's going to print as soon as your
MARK goes away.
Following the text with more line feeds causes your text to jump up in
his window [not on Writelog, AFIK], and makes it hard to click on your call.
RTTY being auto-decoded, it's a really good idea if you are running, to
make your exchange: DL6XX 599 03 CA DL6XX. He probably knows who and
where you are, he called you, but he may not know that he's the guy you
responded to. By that time, the pile and QRM may have subsided. I put
my own call at the end of S&P exchanges again, just to make sure he got
it right. Others don't which is OK too.
Keep in mind that the 5-unit Baudot code has 32 possible combinations,
not enough for all the alphabet, numbers and punctuation. Sending "5NN
03 CA" adds two additional characters -- a LTRS in the signal report,
and a FIGS to get to the zone. Same for punctuation. Since we're all
running at the exact same code speed, adding function characters isn't
going to improve rate. :-)
I'd start minimalist if you can, and then decide if you need additional
interface hardware.
73,
Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014
- www.cqp.org
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Re: [Elecraft] MMTTY DATA-A or FSK
Thanks Don so it seems I was doing the right thing I did start with MMVARI then went to MMTTY both AFSK A I misspoke in the original post saying DATA-A but meant AFSK-A so it seems I am on the right track I find tuning with the VFO and watching the markers on the P3 the easiestI dont like tuning with the mouse. David Moes President: Peterborough Amateur Radio Club. dm...@nexicom.net VE3DVY, VE3SD On 10/1/2014 22:31, Don Wilhelm wrote: David, Actually, MMTTY and data sub-mode AFSK-A on the K3 will give you the best transmitter IMD. With MMTTY, you would tune with the K3 VFO rather than clicking on a waterfall display - this is a computer soundcard application of MMTTY. If you prefer to click on a waterfall display, then an application other than MMTTY should be used. Yes, you can do FSK-D with MMTTY, and that requires a "one transistor interface" to drive the K3 ACC connector pin 1. Some prefer that approach because it avoids setting the soundcard levels correctly for transmit. The choice is yours to make. 73, Don W3FPR On 10/1/2014 10:06 PM, david Moes wrote: I have dabbled a bit with RTTY mostly with the Centenial and some DX but this past weekend I thought Ill give the CQWW-RTTY a try. spent a little time and got things working using N1MM and MMVARI using DATA-A relying on the P3 for waterfall display. It seems I got bitten by the RTTY contest bug because I loved it. So here is the question to the serious RTTY contester. what is the ideal setup. is MMTTY and DATA-A best or should I interface for fsk. and is MMTTY the best option here? and more important what is the best way to do this both from software and hardware setup. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] MMTTY DATA-A or FSK
On Wed,10/1/2014 7:06 PM, david Moes wrote: So here is the question to the serious RTTY contester. what is the ideal setup. Most contes.ters use MMTTY. Some swear by FSK, some like AFSK. For FSK, use FSK-D. For AFSK, use AFSK-A. AFSK has always used LSB, while other digital modes use USB. The two popular logging programs are N1MM (Free, excellent) and WriteLog (Not Free). I use N1MM and AFSK, and use VOX for PTT. N1MM has the capability to open additional decoding windows, each of which can be optimized for different forms of distortion caused by propagation. Most of us use a program called 2Tone for those additional windows. We use the additional windows because sometimes the decoders miss one or more characters, but if you're running multiple decoders, there's a good chance that at least one of them will copy the exchange and you won't need to ask for a repeat. Google to find MMTTY. 2Tone is distributed on the email reflector for N1MM Digital. Both are free. There's an applications note here http://k9yc.com/USB_Interfaces.pdf that talks about some good USB audio interfaces and setting levels to produce a clean signal. 73, Jim K9YC __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: [Elecraft] MMTTY DATA-A or FSK
David, Actually, MMTTY and data sub-mode AFSK-A on the K3 will give you the best transmitter IMD. With MMTTY, you would tune with the K3 VFO rather than clicking on a waterfall display - this is a computer soundcard application of MMTTY. If you prefer to click on a waterfall display, then an application other than MMTTY should be used. Yes, you can do FSK-D with MMTTY, and that requires a "one transistor interface" to drive the K3 ACC connector pin 1. Some prefer that approach because it avoids setting the soundcard levels correctly for transmit. The choice is yours to make. 73, Don W3FPR On 10/1/2014 10:06 PM, david Moes wrote: I have dabbled a bit with RTTY mostly with the Centenial and some DX but this past weekend I thought Ill give the CQWW-RTTY a try. spent a little time and got things working using N1MM and MMVARI using DATA-A relying on the P3 for waterfall display. It seems I got bitten by the RTTY contest bug because I loved it. So here is the question to the serious RTTY contester. what is the ideal setup. is MMTTY and DATA-A best or should I interface for fsk. and is MMTTY the best option here? and more important what is the best way to do this both from software and hardware setup. __ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to arch...@mail-archive.com
