Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[F5vjc]

Yes agreed, there are QRQ Ops out there but a tiny minority reading in
excess of 50 WPM head copy, but keyboard sending of course.

Yes In CW contesting I agree the average is probably 30 WPM but above this
speed get ready for the inevitable Agn, Agn, my No. etc. Wasted time and
effort.

As for cut numbers... forget it. Except of course, the  5NN sync pulse and
zeroes, again wasted time and unnecessary repeats. Cut numbers are silly.

If you're making  Q/s in excess of 50WPM in a contest what CW reader are
you using?..And of course these must be noise crushing Mega signals S9+++
no QRM,  so your CW reader can cope.

Try this during the last day/hours of the contest when the peanut whistle
signals are S+P  and you're desparate for those last points.

Yes the K3 just works,no problem, never any QSD at any speed.

Please let's not turn CW into 'Just another Digital mode' or you may as
well just go use RTTY or PSK 31 or whatever...

73, F5VJC




On 29 April 2014 22:07, Brian Alsop  wrote:

> There was a thread on QRQ CW here.  Also a query about does anybody send
> QRQ CW.
>
> For 2013 CQ WW contest N6TV did an analysis.
> The answer was 30+ WPM average.
> The top speeds were in excess of 50 WPM!
>
> See: http://cqww.com/blog/?p=302
>
> With all the K3's being used by contesters, it doesn't appear that
> contesters are running into QSD problems at 30+ WPM.
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>
>
> -
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3722/6914 - Release Date: 04/29/14
>
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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[mcduffie]

> For 2013 CQ WW contest N6TV did an analysis.
> The answer was 30+ WPM average.
> The top speeds were in excess of 50 WPM!

So are you saying 30wpm is now called QRQ?  When did it creep that low?  I
suppose it is a victim of the lack of CW requirement or something like that.

Gary
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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Chester Alderman]

I am a QRQ operator and have been for about 30 years and of course I use a
keyboard for sending CW. In my opinion it is just silly to run much over
34/35 wpm during contest and I personally think one is hurting themselves by
'showing off'! Sometimes if I get irritated and find someone sending at 50
wpm in a contest, I will crank my K3 up to 80 wpm and respond to them, where
upon they rather quickly QRS a bit and ask for a repeat.

Both are just a silly thing to do IMHO.

73,
Tom - W4BQF


-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of F5vjc
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 5:17 PM
To: Brian Alsop
Cc: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

Yes agreed, there are QRQ Ops out there but a tiny minority reading in
excess of 50 WPM head copy, but keyboard sending of course.

Yes In CW contesting I agree the average is probably 30 WPM but above this
speed get ready for the inevitable Agn, Agn, my No. etc. Wasted time and
effort.

As for cut numbers... forget it. Except of course, the  5NN sync pulse and
zeroes, again wasted time and unnecessary repeats. Cut numbers are silly.

If you're making  Q/s in excess of 50WPM in a contest what CW reader are you
using?..And of course these must be noise crushing Mega signals S9+++ no
QRM,  so your CW reader can cope.

Try this during the last day/hours of the contest when the peanut whistle
signals are S+P  and you're desparate for those last points.

Yes the K3 just works,no problem, never any QSD at any speed.

Please let's not turn CW into 'Just another Digital mode' or you may as well
just go use RTTY or PSK 31 or whatever...

73, F5VJC




On 29 April 2014 22:07, Brian Alsop  wrote:

> There was a thread on QRQ CW here.  Also a query about does anybody 
> send QRQ CW.
>
> For 2013 CQ WW contest N6TV did an analysis.
> The answer was 30+ WPM average.
> The top speeds were in excess of 50 WPM!
>
> See: http://cqww.com/blog/?p=302
>
> With all the K3's being used by contesters, it doesn't appear that 
> contesters are running into QSD problems at 30+ WPM.
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>
>
> -
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3722/6914 - Release Date: 
> 04/29/14
>
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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Wayne Burdick]

I can copy 50 WPM on a good day, but when I encounter ops running higher 
speeds, or if the ol' synapses are dulled by a glass of vino, I eavesdrop using 
the built-in text decoder (K3 and KX3). I find such signals on 40 m during the 
day, usually. I think these ops are using keyboards, more often than not, based 
on the number of mistakes correlated to QWERTY.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Apr 29, 2014, at 1:07 PM, Brian Alsop  wrote:

> There was a thread on QRQ CW here.  Also a query about does anybody send QRQ 
> CW.
> 
> For 2013 CQ WW contest N6TV did an analysis.
> The answer was 30+ WPM average.
> The top speeds were in excess of 50 WPM!
> 
> See: http://cqww.com/blog/?p=302
> 
> With all the K3's being used by contesters, it doesn't appear that contesters 
> are running into QSD problems at 30+ WPM.
> 
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
> 
> 
> -
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3722/6914 - Release Date: 04/29/14
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Phil Wheeler]

Ah, Wayne, but can you keep up with the text on 
the LCD after that second glass? :-)


Need more lines!  Feature to add to the P3?

73 Phil w7ox

On 4/29/14, 4:43 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

I can copy 50 WPM on a good day, but when I encounter ops running higher 
speeds, or if the ol' synapses are dulled by a glass of vino, I eavesdrop using 
the built-in text decoder (K3 and KX3). I find such signals on 40 m during the 
day, usually. I think these ops are using keyboards, more often than not, based 
on the number of mistakes correlated to QWERTY.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Apr 29, 2014, at 1:07 PM, Brian Alsop  wrote:


There was a thread on QRQ CW here.  Also a query about does anybody send QRQ CW.

For 2013 CQ WW contest N6TV did an analysis.
The answer was 30+ WPM average.
The top speeds were in excess of 50 WPM!

See: http://cqww.com/blog/?p=302

With all the K3's being used by contesters, it doesn't appear that contesters 
are running into QSD problems at 30+ WPM.

73 de Brian/K3KO


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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Chester Alderman]

The solution to the QWERTY 'problem' is to switch to a Dvorak key placement
keyboard! 

When I began learning how to do QRQ, I could not send over about 40 wpm on
my QWERTY keyboard. A friend suggested I try the Dvorak board, which I did.
After about four months my typing speed was in excess of 100 wpm. I'm sure I
never could have done QRQ CW without changing to the Dvorak key placement
board.

73,
Tom - W4BQF



-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wayne
Burdick
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 7:43 PM
To: Brian Alsop
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

I can copy 50 WPM on a good day, but when I encounter ops running higher
speeds, or if the ol' synapses are dulled by a glass of vino, I eavesdrop
using the built-in text decoder (K3 and KX3). I find such signals on 40 m
during the day, usually. I think these ops are using keyboards, more often
than not, based on the number of mistakes correlated to QWERTY.

73,
Wayne
N6KR


On Apr 29, 2014, at 1:07 PM, Brian Alsop  wrote:

> There was a thread on QRQ CW here.  Also a query about does anybody send
QRQ CW.
> 
> For 2013 CQ WW contest N6TV did an analysis.
> The answer was 30+ WPM average.
> The top speeds were in excess of 50 WPM!
> 
> See: http://cqww.com/blog/?p=302
> 
> With all the K3's being used by contesters, it doesn't appear that
contesters are running into QSD problems at 30+ WPM.
> 
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
> 
> 
> -
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2247 / Virus Database: 3722/6914 - Release Date: 
> 04/29/14
> 
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[mcduffie]

> Not at all. There were a number of posters here who simply could not 
> believe anybody could copy 30 WPM.

Really?  :o(

> I thought it would be interesting to point out that several 1000 
> contesters consider 30 WPM to a routine speed.

Agree.

> Of course to a no-coder, many Generals and Extras these days, 30 WPM 
> might as well be 1000 WPM.  In their eyes it is QRQ.

We used to consider speeds over about 45 to be QRQ.  I still do.  I certainly
don't consider myself a QRQ operator, and I regularly run at 30-35.  My aging,
retired brain no longer does well at upper speeds.  Because I had been off of HF
for over ten years when I retired, it took a long time to get back to being
comfy at 30.  The brain just wouldn't keep up with the key when sending.  Doing
better now, but I'm no QRQ op.

Gary
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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[mcduffie]

> Callsign Gary?

It's in the address!  Also in the sig when I reply normally, which I didn't do
that time.

Gary
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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[WILLIS COOKE via Elecraft]

A lot of contesters can manage a 30 WPM Contest QSO or even 50 WPM, but would 
be hard pressed to get solid copy of a 25 WPM Rag Chew or even slower with W1AW 
sending QST Text.  I can get a DX call sign at 50 if I get to hear it several 
times and there is good signal strength and not too much QRM, but I don't claim 
to copy 50 WPM.  I can get by with a few mistakes using paddles at 22 or 23 and 
a straight key at 25 or 26 but to QSO with DX or Contest at 30 to 50 I need my 
puter and the F keys programmed.  So for copy speed I will claim no more than 
25.  As a contester, I have much better results if I keep my speed at 28 or 
below because the speed merchants who can call CQ at 30 to 50 often cannot copy 
your call at that speed.  I think we would all have more fun and probably make 
more QSOs if we would slow down to about 1.2 times our Rag Chew speed, but I 
have a lot of fun the way things are, so I am not complaining.
 
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart



 From: "mcduf...@ag0n.net" 
To: als...@nc.rr.com; elecraft  
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW
 


> Not at all. There were a number of posters here who simply could not 
> believe anybody could copy 30 WPM.

Really?  :o(

> I thought it would be interesting to point out that several 1000 
> contesters consider 30 WPM to a routine speed.

Agree.

> Of course to a no-coder, many Generals and Extras these days, 30 WPM 
> might as well be 1000 WPM.  In their eyes it is QRQ.

We used to consider speeds over about 45 to be QRQ.  I still do.  I certainly
don't consider myself a QRQ operator, and I regularly run at 30-35.  My aging,
retired brain no longer does well at upper speeds.  Because I had been off of HF
for over ten years when I retired, it took a long time to get back to being
comfy at 30.  The brain just wouldn't keep up with the key when sending.  Doing
better now, but I'm no QRQ op.

Gary
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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Fred Jensen]

INT QRQ [also QRQ?]: "Shall I send faster?"
QRQ nn: "Send faster, nn WPM"

We hams nounify and verbify International Q-Signals all the time, and 
QRQ in casual conversation means someone who sends and receives Morse at 
rates generally higher than the normal proletariat on the CW bands and 
in contests ... which tend to be higher than normal conversation, not a 
whole lot to say and often it's predictable. :-)


The alleged Morse receiving record is held by Ted McElroy from sometime 
in the first half of the 20th century ... around 75 WPM on text taken 
from the newspaper.  I do hear about those over 100 [units not always 
specified], I really don't know how to interpret that.


I first met Joe, now N8EA, at Keesler AFB in Biloxi MS when we were both 
very much younger, I was 22 and he might have still been in his very 
late teens, or maybe 20.  Joe could head copy 50+ WPM.  I think he still 
can.  I'd say he could paddle it too except I could *not* copy 50 WPM so 
how would I know when he did send?


QRQ [as a noun meaning "very fast CW"] is a personal thing.  It depends 
on your Morse experience, how old you are, and other factors.  Receiving 
QRQ limit for me is around 40 WPM, but I doubt I'd try and engage D4C in 
a debate at 40 wpm however.  My limit with a paddle has declined to 
around 25, maybe 28 on a good day, it's been inversely proportional to 
the number of accumulated birthdays.  For a CW newbie, 20 WPM character 
speed and 12 WPM net speed could be QRQ ... a struggle.


My K3 has a QRQ mode [unused by me] that improves the keying and QSK at 
very high speeds, most of which I think come from keyboards these days. 
 I hope we don't get back into the nonsense of Extra, Extra Lite, and 
No Code Extras.  You take the test on the day you take the test.  It is 
what it is right then.  You pass, you get your license and it's as good 
as mine from 1956 ... period.  We're all in this together.


In the Summits On The Air crowd, a number of formerly SSB/FM-only ops 
are actively learning CW.  I know there are others.  Every legal mode is 
OK, and we're pretty good at sharing our spectrum allocations. Others on 
the planet could actually learn from us.


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014
- www.cqp.org

On 4/29/2014 2:22 PM, mcduf...@ag0n.net wrote:



For 2013 CQ WW contest N6TV did an analysis.
The answer was 30+ WPM average.
The top speeds were in excess of 50 WPM!


So are you saying 30wpm is now called QRQ?  When did it creep that low?  I
suppose it is a victim of the lack of CW requirement or something like that.



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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Kevin Stover]

Excellent post.

I learned more than ten years ago from a group of guys in the Black 
Hills that slowing down to about 22-25 wpm when running gets more 
answers than "showing off" and cranking the keyer up to 35+.
These guys can all do 50+ head copy but slow it down intentionally to 
attract more contacts.
It works. For about 6 years in a row they were one of the top ten 1A 
stations during field day.
Maybe if the big contest guns did the same we wouldn't have the visceral 
anti-contest attitudes displayed, and get more people involved.


On 4/29/2014 9:09 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

INT QRQ [also QRQ?]: "Shall I send faster?"
QRQ nn: "Send faster, nn WPM"

We hams nounify and verbify International Q-Signals all the time, and 
QRQ in casual conversation means someone who sends and receives Morse 
at rates generally higher than the normal proletariat on the CW bands 
and in contests ... which tend to be higher than normal conversation, 
not a whole lot to say and often it's predictable. :-)


The alleged Morse receiving record is held by Ted McElroy from 
sometime in the first half of the 20th century ... around 75 WPM on 
text taken from the newspaper.  I do hear about those over 100 [units 
not always specified], I really don't know how to interpret that.


I first met Joe, now N8EA, at Keesler AFB in Biloxi MS when we were 
both very much younger, I was 22 and he might have still been in his 
very late teens, or maybe 20.  Joe could head copy 50+ WPM.  I think 
he still can.  I'd say he could paddle it too except I could *not* 
copy 50 WPM so how would I know when he did send?


QRQ [as a noun meaning "very fast CW"] is a personal thing.  It 
depends on your Morse experience, how old you are, and other factors.  
Receiving QRQ limit for me is around 40 WPM, but I doubt I'd try and 
engage D4C in a debate at 40 wpm however.  My limit with a paddle has 
declined to around 25, maybe 28 on a good day, it's been inversely 
proportional to the number of accumulated birthdays.  For a CW newbie, 
20 WPM character speed and 12 WPM net speed could be QRQ ... a struggle.


My K3 has a QRQ mode [unused by me] that improves the keying and QSK 
at very high speeds, most of which I think come from keyboards these 
days.  I hope we don't get back into the nonsense of Extra, Extra 
Lite, and No Code Extras.  You take the test on the day you take the 
test.  It is what it is right then.  You pass, you get your license 
and it's as good as mine from 1956 ... period.  We're all in this 
together.


In the Summits On The Air crowd, a number of formerly SSB/FM-only ops 
are actively learning CW.  I know there are others.  Every legal mode 
is OK, and we're pretty good at sharing our spectrum allocations. 
Others on the planet could actually learn from us.


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014
- www.cqp.org



--
R. Kevin Stover
AC0H
ARRL
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441

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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Gerry Hull]

I am accused by some of sending too fast in CW contests; I like fast.  My
typical CQ speed in this years ARRL DX and CQWW contests was in the 35-42
wpm range.   When the stations are loud, and the ops good, I stick with
40-44 WPM, but when the pile thins and there are less callers, I slow it
down.  What I've found is that, in most contests, contrary to what Kevin
was saying, QRQ does not stop people from calling you.  Many, many guys
come back to me on straight keys at 15-20 WPM but don't  ask for QRS or
fills -- most contest exchanges are pretty darn easy.  If the callers stop
calling, I often QRS to see if there are some people waiting to call but
can't copy.  I find few.   I also find that QSO Rate is directly affected
by speed.  For me, the true sweet spot is in the 32-38 wpm range.  Maybe a
bit slower in Sweepstakes.  I don't consider these speeds "showing off".
(I also hate big swings in speed in the exchange!)

I was blessed when I was a teenager -- some 35 years ago -- to ragchew with
a bunch of friends on 40m who were into QRQ with keyboards.  Gerry can you
copy?  Yes?  They would increase speed until I was barely able to copy.  So
-- now general conversation at 50wpm is OK in my head.   Ham-type QSOs I
can go much faster -- in the 60s probably.Many years of traffic
handling helped as well.   Contest QSOs are very predictable -- so they are
so easy to copy.

One other note on speed... I operated W1AW/! from Massachusetts the first
day it was on... It was the first time that state was on 20m CW with the
'AW/1 call.  The pile was HUGE, about 2.5 kHz wide.   Everyone was loud and
the ops were great.  So, I cranked the speed up to 48 wpm.  It was GREAT!
 No one left the pile (how hard is 5NN MA?)  I had no QRS requests.

Since this is the K3 reflector, I'll say I use the K3 in QSK mode for all
my CW contesting -- I love it.  Very smooth.  The only issue I had this
year was so much loud backscatter, especially on 20 and 10m.  The echoes
were so loud that it would really confuse if trying to send from the paddle
(which I rarely do!)  Never an issue with the K3 driving an Alpha 87A in
QSK.  Love it!

73, Gerry W1VE (AK4L back in the teenage years)





Gerry Hull, W1VE   | Nelson, NH USA | +1-617-CW-SPARK
AKA: VE1RM | VY2CDX | VO1CDX | 6Y6C | 8P9RM
 
  
 


On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 7:49 AM, Kevin Stover
wrote:

> Excellent post.
>
> I learned more than ten years ago from a group of guys in the Black Hills
> that slowing down to about 22-25 wpm when running gets more answers than
> "showing off" and cranking the keyer up to 35+.
> These guys can all do 50+ head copy but slow it down intentionally to
> attract more contacts.
> It works. For about 6 years in a row they were one of the top ten 1A
> stations during field day.
> Maybe if the big contest guns did the same we wouldn't have the visceral
> anti-contest attitudes displayed, and get more people involved.
>
>
> On 4/29/2014 9:09 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
>
>> INT QRQ [also QRQ?]: "Shall I send faster?"
>> QRQ nn: "Send faster, nn WPM"
>>
>> We hams nounify and verbify International Q-Signals all the time, and QRQ
>> in casual conversation means someone who sends and receives Morse at rates
>> generally higher than the normal proletariat on the CW bands and in
>> contests ... which tend to be higher than normal conversation, not a whole
>> lot to say and often it's predictable. :-)
>>
>> The alleged Morse receiving record is held by Ted McElroy from sometime
>> in the first half of the 20th century ... around 75 WPM on text taken from
>> the newspaper.  I do hear about those over 100 [units not always
>> specified], I really don't know how to interpret that.
>>
>> I first met Joe, now N8EA, at Keesler AFB in Biloxi MS when we were both
>> very much younger, I was 22 and he might have still been in his very late
>> teens, or maybe 20.  Joe could head copy 50+ WPM.  I think he still can.
>>  I'd say he could paddle it too except I could *not* copy 50 WPM so how
>> would I know when he did send?
>>
>> QRQ [as a noun meaning "very fast CW"] is a personal thing.  It depends
>> on your Morse experience, how old you are, and other factors.  Receiving
>> QRQ limit for me is around 40 WPM, but I doubt I'd try and engage D4C in a
>> debate at 40 wpm however.  My limit with a paddle has declined to around
>> 25, maybe 28 on a good day, it's been inversely proportional to the number
>> of accumulated birthdays.  For a CW newbie, 20 WPM character speed and 12
>> WPM net speed could be QRQ ... a struggle.
>>
>> My K3 has a QRQ mode [unused by me] that improves the keying and QSK at
>> very high speeds, most of which I think come from keyboards these days.  I
>> hope we don't get back into the nonsense of Extra, Extra Lite, and No Code
>> Extras.  You take the test on the day you take the test.  It is what it is
>> 

Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[AG0N-3055]

On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 06:49:18 -0500, Kevin Stover wrote:

> Maybe if the big contest guns did the same we wouldn't have the visceral 
> anti-contest attitudes displayed, and get more people involved.

You're talking to one of the anti crowd.  It has nothing to do with
speed.  It has to do with the fact that most of us don't like the chaos
of contests, and the fact that for some reason, people seem to think
there needs to be some sort of contest every damned weekend.  Boy do I
relish the old days where there were less than a hand full of contests a
year.  The two main ones were Field Day and Sweepstakes.  If you were
into DX, there was the annual DX contest.

Contests were something SPECIAL those days, and even I took part in
them.  They were fun because they were special.  These days, there's
nothing special at all about them.  You can't even get a meaningful
signal report now.  Your 5NN, but would you repeat because you're too
weak to copy.  They are just another boring noisy weekend when you can't
enjoy the bands.

Gary
-- 
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3055: http://ag0n.net/irlp/3055
NodeOp Help Page: http://ag0n.net/irlp
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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Dennis Griffin via Elecraft]

Probably also very disconcerting for many of those coming from a V/UHF 
background, with recently obtained HF privileges, who just want to have a 
meaningful QSO.

73 de Dennis KD7CAC
Scottsdale, AZ

On Apr 30, 2014, at 5:53 AM, AG0N-3055  wrote:

> On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 06:49:18 -0500, Kevin Stover wrote:
> 
>> Maybe if the big contest guns did the same we wouldn't have the visceral 
>> anti-contest attitudes displayed, and get more people involved.
> 
> You're talking to one of the anti crowd.  It has nothing to do with
> speed.  It has to do with the fact that most of us don't like the chaos
> of contests, and the fact that for some reason, people seem to think
> there needs to be some sort of contest every damned weekend.  Boy do I
> relish the old days where there were less than a hand full of contests a
> year.  The two main ones were Field Day and Sweepstakes.  If you were
> into DX, there was the annual DX contest.
> 
> Contests were something SPECIAL those days, and even I took part in
> them.  They were fun because they were special.  These days, there's
> nothing special at all about them.  You can't even get a meaningful
> signal report now.  Your 5NN, but would you repeat because you're too
> weak to copy.  They are just another boring noisy weekend when you can't
> enjoy the bands.
> 
> Gary
> -- 
> http://ag0n.net
> 3055: http://ag0n.net/irlp/3055
> NodeOp Help Page: http://ag0n.net/irlp
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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Thorpe, Jeffrey]

BINGO!

Jeff - KG7HDZ

> 
> Probably also very disconcerting for many of those coming from a V/UHF 
> background, with recently obtained HF privileges, who just want to have a 
> meaningful QSO.
> 
> 
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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Dyarnes]

Hi All,

I don't know if there is an "official" definition of QRQ, but 30 to 35 wpm
is pretty speedy compared to most.  I can copy that, and maybe just a tad
bit faster, but not much, and don’t do it often enough anymore to be very
good at that speed.  I'm not much good at trying to send at that speed,
however.  That really takes more practice.  When I was copying at those
"higher" speeds, it was usually with a "Mil", or just in my head.

There are a lot of folks out there enjoying some "real" QRQ, at speeds in
excess of 50 wpm.  I think that is great, but it's not for me.  A good
friend, Chuck, W5UXH, does that a good bit, and he like to create his own
keyboards.  Now, Chuck is most capable without one, but he likes the
process.  I remember years ago, when Chuck and I used to chat with some
regularity, he kept urging me to go faster!  I don't know what his upper
limit is, but I sure wasn't able to test it!!!  No keyboards back then.

I tend to agree that 30 wpm, more or less, is a good speed for contests.
For whatever reason, stations going much faster than that are harder for me
to copy unless their sig is really good.  My keyer tends to be set around 25
wpm, and I move up or down about 5 wpm as dictated by the other station.
Seems to work for me 90% of the time.

I think I can almost always tell when a keyboard is being used.  The spacing
is too perfect!  Some folks fool me, but not many.  Of course, the dead give
away is when you hear periods and apostrophes coming across with regularity.

Dave W7AQK

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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Barry]

I have QSOed with W4BQF at 70-90 WPM (thought it's been a few years...)  The
CW sounded fine, though don't know if Tom was running his K3 at the time. 
Personally, I never use QSK.  I find it annoying to have the noise pop in
between characters.

Regarding the anti-contesters, to each their own.  What grates on my nerves
is hearing the newer hams start every transmission on 2m FM with "Copy
that," the VHF version of "please copy..."  :-)

Barry W2UP



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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Phil Wheeler]

I'm with you on this, Gary. Too many contests 
cluttering the bands these days; the list for one 
month fills a page or more. In the past I 
participated casually. Nowadays, not at all.


Phil w7ox

On 4/30/14, 5:53 AM, AG0N-3055 wrote:

On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 06:49:18 -0500, Kevin Stover wrote:


Maybe if the big contest guns did the same we wouldn't have the visceral
anti-contest attitudes displayed, and get more people involved.

You're talking to one of the anti crowd.  It has nothing to do with
speed.  It has to do with the fact that most of us don't like the chaos
of contests, and the fact that for some reason, people seem to think
there needs to be some sort of contest every damned weekend.  Boy do I
relish the old days where there were less than a hand full of contests a
year.  The two main ones were Field Day and Sweepstakes.  If you were
into DX, there was the annual DX contest.

Contests were something SPECIAL those days, and even I took part in
them.  They were fun because they were special.  These days, there's
nothing special at all about them.  You can't even get a meaningful
signal report now.  Your 5NN, but would you repeat because you're too
weak to copy.  They are just another boring noisy weekend when you can't
enjoy the bands.

Gary


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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Charlie T, K3ICH]

I always thought the phrase "Copy That" was a holdover from either pilot or 
military lingo, much like saying "Niner" for the number 9.


73, Chas


- Original Message - 
From: "Barry" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW


I have QSOed with W4BQF at 70-90 WPM (thought it's been a few years...) 
The

CW sounded fine, though don't know if Tom was running his K3 at the time.
Personally, I never use QSK.  I find it annoying to have the noise pop in
between characters.

Regarding the anti-contesters, to each their own.  What grates on my 
nerves

is hearing the newer hams start every transmission on 2m FM with "Copy
that," the VHF version of "please copy..."  :-)

Barry W2UP



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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[DGB]

That's what the WARC bands are for, plenty of room there! ;-)

73 de NS9I  -  .   ..  -

On 4/30/2014 7:53 AM, AG0N-3055 wrote:

On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 06:49:18 -0500, Kevin Stover wrote:


Maybe if the big contest guns did the same we wouldn't have the visceral
anti-contest attitudes displayed, and get more people involved.

You're talking to one of the anti crowd.  It has nothing to do with
speed.  It has to do with the fact that most of us don't like the chaos
of contests, and the fact that for some reason, people seem to think
there needs to be some sort of contest every damned weekend.  Boy do I
relish the old days where there were less than a hand full of contests a
year.  The two main ones were Field Day and Sweepstakes.  If you were
into DX, there was the annual DX contest.

Contests were something SPECIAL those days, and even I took part in
them.  They were fun because they were special.  These days, there's
nothing special at all about them.  You can't even get a meaningful
signal report now.  Your 5NN, but would you repeat because you're too
weak to copy.  They are just another boring noisy weekend when you can't
enjoy the bands.

Gary


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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Rick M0LEP]

On Wed 30 Apr DGB wrote:
> That's what the WARC bands are for, plenty of room there! ;-)

Yeah, right...  ;)

I don't do contests, so I tend to take big contest weekends as weekends 
for doing something else; the contest bands will be jammed with 
contesters, and the WARC bands that are open will be jammed with 
contest-avioding folk, so why bother with the radio? After all, the 
contests will be over, and there'll be space on the bands, by Monday.

As a Morse beginner (primarily motivated by Summits On The Air), 
anything from about 15wpm up is "QRQ" by my standards, and I won't 
bother trying to answer anyone going much over 25wpm, even if they are 
on a never-before-activated 10-point summit...

and if I'm on a summit and have to resort to CW (and my Morse is not 
the best, so I usually only use it when SSB isn't getting me anywhere) 
then I'll most definitely ask for QRS.

-- 
... 73, Rick, M0LEP   (KX3 #3281)

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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Harry Yingst via Elecraft]

I have to fully agree, personally I have never seen the point of contesting, it 
all seems pretty pointless.

In nearly every contest, I see the same thing contesters with little regard for 
other Amateurs.

I like to run JT65 and SSTV and on on the CW and RTTY contest the JT65 
Frequencies are Full
with CW or RTTY and on the SSB contest the SSTV frequencies are full SSB voice 
contesters.

And the typical response from contesters are "Use the WARC Bands".

I guess some must have a need to do something to make themselves feel special.





 From: AG0N-3055 
To: Kevin Stover  
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW
 

On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 06:49:18 -0500, Kevin Stover wrote:

> Maybe if the big contest guns did the same we wouldn't have the visceral 
> anti-contest attitudes displayed, and get more people involved.

You're talking to one of the anti crowd.  It has nothing to do with
speed.  It has to do with the fact that most of us don't like the chaos
of contests, and the fact that for some reason, people seem to think
there needs to be some sort of contest every damned weekend.  Boy do I
relish the old days where there were less than a hand full of contests a
year.  The two main ones were Field Day and Sweepstakes.  If you were
into DX, there was the annual DX contest.

Contests were something SPECIAL those days, and even I took part in
them.  They were fun because they were special.  These days, there's
nothing special at all about them.  You can't even get a meaningful
signal report now.  Your 5NN, but would you repeat because you're too
weak to copy.  They are just another boring noisy weekend when you can't
enjoy the bands.

Gary
-- 
http://ag0n.net
3055: http://ag0n.net/irlp/3055
NodeOp Help Page: http://ag0n.net/irlp

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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Igor Sokolov]

What all these postings have to do with Elecraft except that K3 is a choise 
of many contesters?
Over 50% of last WRTC participants were using Elecraft. I am sure that 
contesters  are a lion share of Elecraft customers both in number and 
volume.


73, Igor UA9CDC
User of K2, K3, KX3, KXPA100, KAT500 etc and contester :)


- Original Message - 
From: "Harry Yingst via Elecraft" 

Cc: 
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 10:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW





I have to fully agree, personally I have never seen the point of contesting, 
it all seems pretty pointless.


In nearly every contest, I see the same thing contesters with little regard 
for other Amateurs.


I like to run JT65 and SSTV and on on the CW and RTTY contest the JT65 
Frequencies are Full
with CW or RTTY and on the SSB contest the SSTV frequencies are full SSB 
voice contesters.


And the typical response from contesters are "Use the WARC Bands".

I guess some must have a need to do something to make themselves feel 
special.






From: AG0N-3055 
To: Kevin Stover 
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW


On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 06:49:18 -0500, Kevin Stover wrote:


Maybe if the big contest guns did the same we wouldn't have the visceral
anti-contest attitudes displayed, and get more people involved.


You're talking to one of the anti crowd. It has nothing to do with
speed. It has to do with the fact that most of us don't like the chaos
of contests, and the fact that for some reason, people seem to think
there needs to be some sort of contest every damned weekend. Boy do I
relish the old days where there were less than a hand full of contests a
year. The two main ones were Field Day and Sweepstakes. If you were
into DX, there was the annual DX contest.

Contests were something SPECIAL those days, and even I took part in
them. They were fun because they were special. These days, there's
nothing special at all about them. You can't even get a meaningful
signal report now. Your 5NN, but would you repeat because you're too
weak to copy. They are just another boring noisy weekend when you can't
enjoy the bands.

Gary
--
http://ag0n.net
3055: http://ag0n.net/irlp/3055
NodeOp Help Page: http://ag0n.net/irlp

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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[WILLIS COOKE via Elecraft]

I eight years as a flier in the Air Force during the Vietnam era and 15 years 
as  private, instrument rated pilot I do not recall ever hearing Copy That on 
the radio.  We were trained to use Niner for Nine because it was easier to be 
sure what you heard in a series of numbers.  It is really important whether you 
meant Niner thousand or Five thousand feet.  The only time I recall hearing 
Copy That was in the inane commercial where two actors were conversing with a 
series of Copy Thats.  I have heard things like Copy Niner Thousand.  To repeat 
a controllers instruction when it is very important to get it correctly.
 
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart



 From: "Charlie T, K3ICH" 
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net 
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW
 

I always thought the phrase "Copy That" was a holdover from either pilot or 
military lingo, much like saying "Niner" for the number 9.

73, Chas


- Original Message - 
From: "Barry" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW


>I have QSOed with W4BQF at 70-90 WPM (thought it's been a few years...) 
>The
> CW sounded fine, though don't know if Tom was running his K3 at the time.
> Personally, I never use QSK.  I find it annoying to have the noise pop in
> between characters.
>
> Regarding the anti-contesters, to each their own.  What grates on my 
> nerves
> is hearing the newer hams start every transmission on 2m FM with "Copy
> that," the VHF version of "please copy..."  :-)
>
> Barry W2UP
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/QRQ-CW-tp7588139p7588178.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> __
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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Kevin]

The made up "radio jargon" which bothers me the most is "over and out".  
Which do you mean: over or out?  They mean very different things and 
CANNOT be used simultaneously.  However, few TV writers have any 
experience at comms.

73,
 Kevin.  KD5ONS


On 4/30/2014 9:58 AM, WILLIS COOKE via Elecraft wrote:

I eight years as a flier in the Air Force during the Vietnam era and 15 years 
as  private, instrument rated pilot I do not recall ever hearing Copy That on 
the radio.  We were trained to use Niner for Nine because it was easier to be 
sure what you heard in a series of numbers.  It is really important whether you 
meant Niner thousand or Five thousand feet.  The only time I recall hearing 
Copy That was in the inane commercial where two actors were conversing with a 
series of Copy Thats.  I have heard things like Copy Niner Thousand.  To repeat 
a controllers instruction when it is very important to get it correctly.
  
Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman

K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart


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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Jim Campbell]

I have my own definition of QRQ. It is anything faster than I can copy
at any given time.

73,

Jim - W4BQP
K2 #2268, KX3 #2857
Licensed since 1953
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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Phil Wheeler]

I thought it as from CB as in "Copy that, Good 
Buddy" :-)


73 Phil w7ox

On 4/30/14, 7:10 AM, Charlie T, K3ICH wrote:
I always thought the phrase "Copy That" was a 
holdover from either pilot or military lingo, 
much like saying "Niner" for the number 9.


73, Chas


- Original Message - From: "Barry" 


To: 
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW


I have QSOed with W4BQF at 70-90 WPM (thought 
it's been a few years...) The
CW sounded fine, though don't know if Tom was 
running his K3 at the time.
Personally, I never use QSK.  I find it 
annoying to have the noise pop in

between characters.

Regarding the anti-contesters, to each their 
own.  What grates on my nerves
is hearing the newer hams start every 
transmission on 2m FM with "Copy

that," the VHF version of "please copy..."  :-)

Barry W2UP


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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Chester Alderman]

The International Q signal for QRQ is "Shall I send faster?" and does not
mention any specific speed.

73,

Tom - W4BQF
Licensed in 1953

-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim
Campbell
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 1:13 PM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW


I have my own definition of QRQ. It is anything faster than I can copy at
any given time.

73,

Jim - W4BQP
K2 #2268, KX3 #2857
Licensed since 1953
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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Vic Rosenthal K2VCO]

And I have never seen the point of JT-anything or indeed any digital 
mode except CW. But I understand that ham radio is many things to many 
people, and think we should respect that.


On 4/30/2014 9:18 AM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:


I have to fully agree, personally I have never seen the point of contesting, it 
all seems pretty pointless.

In nearly every contest, I see the same thing contesters with little regard for 
other Amateurs.

I like to run JT65 and SSTV and on on the CW and RTTY contest the JT65 
Frequencies are Full
with CW or RTTY and on the SSB contest the SSTV frequencies are full SSB voice 
contesters.

And the typical response from contesters are "Use the WARC Bands".

I guess some must have a need to do something to make themselves feel special.



--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Dean Jeutter]

TV radio jargon also has it as "six two and even, over and out" (Dick 
Tracy maybe?)


K3GGN
~~~
On 4/30/2014 12:10 PM, Kevin wrote:
The made up "radio jargon" which bothers me the most is "over and 
out".  Which do you mean: over or out?  They mean very different 
things and CANNOT be used simultaneously.  However, few TV writers 
have any experience at comms.

73,
 Kevin.  KD5ONS


On 4/30/2014 9:58 AM, WILLIS COOKE via Elecraft wrote:
I eight years as a flier in the Air Force during the Vietnam era and 
15 years as  private, instrument rated pilot I do not recall ever 
hearing Copy That on the radio.  We were trained to use Niner for 
Nine because it was easier to be sure what you heard in a series of 
numbers.  It is really important whether you meant Niner thousand or 
Five thousand feet.  The only time I recall hearing Copy That was in 
the inane commercial where two actors were conversing with a series 
of Copy Thats.  I have heard things like Copy Niner Thousand.  To 
repeat a controllers instruction when it is very important to get it 
correctly.

  Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart


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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Phil Hystad]

The phrase "Over and Out" was a key part of the brief training lessons for the 
young female scientist near the beginning of the movie "Them!".  She was being 
taught proper protocol of using the radio while searching for
giant ants in a helicopter.

K7PEH


On Apr 30, 2014, at 1:21 PM, Dean Jeutter  wrote:

> TV radio jargon also has it as "six two and even, over and out" (Dick Tracy 
> maybe?)
> 
> K3GGN
> ~~~
> On 4/30/2014 12:10 PM, Kevin wrote:
>> The made up "radio jargon" which bothers me the most is "over and out".  
>> Which do you mean: over or out?  They mean very different things and CANNOT 
>> be used simultaneously.  However, few TV writers have any experience at 
>> comms.
>>73,
>> Kevin.  KD5ONS
>> 
>> 
>> On 4/30/2014 9:58 AM, WILLIS COOKE via Elecraft wrote:
>>> I eight years as a flier in the Air Force during the Vietnam era and 15 
>>> years as  private, instrument rated pilot I do not recall ever hearing Copy 
>>> That on the radio.  We were trained to use Niner for Nine because it was 
>>> easier to be sure what you heard in a series of numbers.  It is really 
>>> important whether you meant Niner thousand or Five thousand feet.  The only 
>>> time I recall hearing Copy That was in the inane commercial where two 
>>> actors were conversing with a series of Copy Thats.  I have heard things 
>>> like Copy Niner Thousand.  To repeat a controllers instruction when it is 
>>> very important to get it correctly.
>>>  Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman
>>> K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart
>> 
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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Vic Rosenthal K2VCO]

I think we should all keep this in mind in case we encounter giant ants 
while operating. Possibly on Field Day?


On 4/30/2014 2:27 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:

The phrase "Over and Out" was a key part of the brief training
lessons for the young female scientist near the beginning of the
movie "Them!".  She was being taught proper protocol of using the
radio while searching for giant ants in a helicopter.

K7PEH


--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/

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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Ross Primrose N4RP]

On 4/30/2014 5:30 PM, Vic Rosenthal K2VCO wrote:
I think we should all keep this in mind in case we encounter giant 
ants while operating. Possibly on Field Day?


You guys use a helicopter for field day? Cool! ;)

73, Ross N4RP


On 4/30/2014 2:27 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:

The phrase "Over and Out" was a key part of the brief training
lessons for the young female scientist near the beginning of the
movie "Them!". She was being taught proper protocol of using the
radio while searching for giant ants in a helicopter.

K7PEH





--
FCC Section 97.313(a) “At all times, an amateur station must use the minimum 
transmitter power necessary to carry out the desired communications.”

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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Fred Jensen]

On 4/30/2014 11:43 AM, Chester Alderman wrote:

The International Q signal for QRQ is "Shall I send faster?" and does not
mention any specific speed.


Technically, the "answer" form of QRQ is "QRQ nn" where nn is a desired 
speed in WPM.


All this QRQ stuff has me curious now.  At what sending speed would I 
want to engage QRQ mode on my K3?  I think I'd have to give up RIT/XIT, 
and I think there was something else too.  I never use XIT but I do use 
RIT when I'm CQ'ing.


73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014
- www.cqp.org

PS:  Casual contester.  I did win JIDX for W6 once, however I was also 
next to last. :-)



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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Don Wilhelm]

Fred,

I think the answer to your question of when to turn it on has a personal 
perception element to it.
We have heard from some who leave it turned on all the time, and some 
others have volunteered that it improves the keying above 35 wpm while 
others have said above 30.


As I recall, QRQ mode is now automatically turned off if you use 
SPLIT/RIT/XIT - if that does not happen for you, update the firmware.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/30/2014 6:46 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

On 4/30/2014 11:43 AM, Chester Alderman wrote:
The International Q signal for QRQ is "Shall I send faster?" and does 
not

mention any specific speed.


Technically, the "answer" form of QRQ is "QRQ nn" where nn is a 
desired speed in WPM.


All this QRQ stuff has me curious now.  At what sending speed would I 
want to engage QRQ mode on my K3?  I think I'd have to give up 
RIT/XIT, and I think there was something else too.  I never use XIT 
but I do use RIT when I'm CQ'ing.




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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Phil Kane]

On 4/30/2014 12:10 PM, Kevin wrote:

> The made up "radio jargon" which bothers me the most is "over and
> out".  Which do you mean: over or out?  They mean very different
> things and CANNOT be used simultaneously.  

They certainly can.  "Over" means "turning it back to you for your
reply".  "Out" means "No further transmissions from me."   In ham jargon
it's "Back to you for your final and I'm clear."

Over and out.   73 de K2ASP

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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Walter Underwood]

Agreed, this is correct usage. It is shorthand for "OVER to you and OUT after 
your transmission", which saves another transmission just for "ID, out".

You might hear this at a busy harbor, where control is working with many 
commercial ships and the operators are comfortable with it. It allows control 
to move on to the next vessel.

I would not use this on an amateur radio net without a training session that 
established this bit of advance proword usage.

Over,

wunder
K6WRU

On Apr 30, 2014, at 4:50 PM, Phil Kane  wrote:

> On 4/30/2014 12:10 PM, Kevin wrote:
> 
>> The made up "radio jargon" which bothers me the most is "over and
>> out".  Which do you mean: over or out?  They mean very different
>> things and CANNOT be used simultaneously.  
> 
> They certainly can.  "Over" means "turning it back to you for your
> reply".  "Out" means "No further transmissions from me."   In ham jargon
> it's "Back to you for your final and I'm clear."
> 
> Over and out.   73 de K2ASP
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Kevin]

During a MARS net the NCS says "out" to a check in when they are done 
talking to that check in .  Then they immediately continue with the next 
QNI.  "Out" means they are done talking to that person only and for that 
instant only.  It does not mean that check in is allowed to leave the 
net.  "Over" means back to the other person for continued comms.


If you used "over and out" during a military net no one would understand 
which you mean.

Kevin.  KD5ONS/NNN0JWI



On 4/30/2014 5:01 PM, Walter Underwood wrote:

Agreed, this is correct usage. It is shorthand for "OVER to you and OUT after your 
transmission", which saves another transmission just for "ID, out".

You might hear this at a busy harbor, where control is working with many 
commercial ships and the operators are comfortable with it. It allows control 
to move on to the next vessel.

I would not use this on an amateur radio net without a training session that 
established this bit of advance proword usage.

Over,

wunder
K6WRU

On Apr 30, 2014, at 4:50 PM, Phil Kane  wrote:


On 4/30/2014 12:10 PM, Kevin wrote:


The made up "radio jargon" which bothers me the most is "over and
out".  Which do you mean: over or out?  They mean very different
things and CANNOT be used simultaneously.

They certainly can.  "Over" means "turning it back to you for your
reply".  "Out" means "No further transmissions from me."   In ham jargon
it's "Back to you for your final and I'm clear."

Over and out.   73 de K2ASP


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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Phil Kane]

On 4/30/2014 6:35 AM, Barry wrote:

> Regarding the anti-contesters, to each their own.  What grates on my nerves
> is hearing the newer hams start every transmission on 2m FM with "Copy
> that," the VHF version of "please copy..."  :-)

In traffic handling, even on VHF, "Please copy" still means "please copy..."

"Copy that" as a preamble in a conversation came to us via CB, and it's
really the phone equivalent of "R" in CW meaning "I have copied and
understood what you sent".
-- --
73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane
Elecraft K2/100   s/n 5402

>From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Gary K9GS]

Can we drop the contest bashing?  This is not the forum for it anyway.  
Besides, per the list owner, WA6HHQ from only yesterday:


In general, please do not argue on the Elecraft list pro/con about various
emission modes like ESSB, CW vs no-code, QRP vs QRO, Contesting etc and their
appropriateness to amateur radio. This list is not a forum for amateur radio
policy. Also, impolite discussion is in direct violation of the list guidelines.



On 4/30/2014 11:18 AM, Harry Yingst via Elecraft wrote:



I have to fully agree, personally I have never seen the point of contesting, it 
all seems pretty pointless.

In nearly every contest, I see the same thing contesters with little regard for 
other Amateurs.

I like to run JT65 and SSTV and on on the CW and RTTY contest the JT65 
Frequencies are Full
with CW or RTTY and on the SSB contest the SSTV frequencies are full SSB voice 
contesters.

And the typical response from contesters are "Use the WARC Bands".

I guess some must have a need to do something to make themselves feel special.





  From: AG0N-3055 
To: Kevin Stover 
Cc: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW
  


On Wed, 30 Apr 2014 06:49:18 -0500, Kevin Stover wrote:


Maybe if the big contest guns did the same we wouldn't have the visceral
anti-contest attitudes displayed, and get more people involved.

You're talking to one of the anti crowd.  It has nothing to do with
speed.  It has to do with the fact that most of us don't like the chaos
of contests, and the fact that for some reason, people seem to think
there needs to be some sort of contest every damned weekend.  Boy do I
relish the old days where there were less than a hand full of contests a
year.  The two main ones were Field Day and Sweepstakes.  If you were
into DX, there was the annual DX contest.

Contests were something SPECIAL those days, and even I took part in
them.  They were fun because they were special.  These days, there's
nothing special at all about them.  You can't even get a meaningful
signal report now.  Your 5NN, but would you repeat because you're too
weak to copy.  They are just another boring noisy weekend when you can't
enjoy the bands.

Gary


--


73,

Gary K9GS

Greater Milwaukee DX Association: http://www.gmdxa.org
Society of Midwest Contesters: http://www.w9smc.com
CW Ops #1032   http://www.cwops.org



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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Kevin]

Here is my source for "over" and "out" procedures as well as definitions 
of same.


http://www.navymars.org/ntp8/NTP%208%20D%20Final.pdf

Page 7-1 is the beginning of the radiotelephone procedures.

My initial comment about "over" and "out" was describing military 
procedure not whatever flavor of the day the amateur community is using.


While training ECOM students for ARES I used this manual as well as the 
ARECC material.  Then my students went out into the world and did 
whatever they felt like.  Being a teacher is often like the poor snail 
climbing the side of a well.  Two steps forward 

 Kevin.  KD5ONS
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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Carl Yaffey]

Speaking of jargon, my pet peeve: using 73’s or 88’s instead of 73 or 88. 

On Apr 30, 2014, at 5:27 PM, Phil Hystad  wrote:

> The phrase "Over and Out" was a key part of the brief training lessons for 
> the young female scientist near the beginning of the movie "Them!".  She was 
> being taught proper protocol of using the radio while searching for
> giant ants in a helicopter.
> 
> K7PEH
> 

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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Toby Pennington]

AND those functions don't work if you have QRQ turned on.   Toby K4NH


On 4/30/2014 6:58 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

Fred,

I think the answer to your question of when to turn it on has a 
personal perception element to it.
We have heard from some who leave it turned on all the time, and some 
others have volunteered that it improves the keying above 35 wpm while 
others have said above 30.


As I recall, QRQ mode is now automatically turned off if you use 
SPLIT/RIT/XIT - if that does not happen for you, update the firmware.


73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/30/2014 6:46 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:

On 4/30/2014 11:43 AM, Chester Alderman wrote:
The International Q signal for QRQ is "Shall I send faster?" and 
does not

mention any specific speed.


Technically, the "answer" form of QRQ is "QRQ nn" where nn is a 
desired speed in WPM.


All this QRQ stuff has me curious now.  At what sending speed would I 
want to engage QRQ mode on my K3?  I think I'd have to give up 
RIT/XIT, and I think there was something else too.  I never use XIT 
but I do use RIT when I'm CQ'ing.




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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[dave]

Speaking of contesting and QRQ . . . one of the things I have wondered 
about is what is the correlation between contest score and CW speed? 
Has anyone ever noted speed and then compared to score?


There are obviously a lot of pitfalls to this - antenna, location, and 
op being the main ones. But I suspect that the winners do not 
regularly run high speed. Too much noise, too many ops who can't copy 
high speed, etc. And if you want the weak, rare mults to pull you out 
you need to be sure they can copy your dits as dits and not confuse 
them with noise bursts.


As for the chap who commented he routinely ran 40+ wpm, well, I guess 
he is one of those I regularly skip over when I'm working S&P.


73 de dave
ab9ca/4

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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Jim Brown]

On 5/1/2014 9:15 AM, dave wrote:
But I suspect that the winners do not regularly run high speed. 


N6TV won CW Sweepstakes this year using K3s at the W7RN super-station. 
Bob usually steams along at 30-34 WPM.


73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Brian Alsop]

I wonder where Dave got this idea from. I'd like to suggest it is 
wishful thinking.


The contest winners clearly are superior ops and will use whatever speed 
benefits them.  Likely higher speeds early in the contest and lower 
speeds later.  Not a fixed speed throughout.


I don't know why there is such an aversion to admitting that many people 
can copy more than 40 WPM.  There is no law of physics or biology 
preventing it.  After all people routinely talk and 300 WPM.  If one can 
decode those utterances at 300 WPM why not simple dot/dash CW at 40 WPM?


73 de Brian/K3KO

On 5/1/2014 16:22, Jim Brown wrote:

On 5/1/2014 9:15 AM, dave wrote:

But I suspect that the winners do not regularly run high speed.


N6TV won CW Sweepstakes this year using K3s at the W7RN super-station.
Bob usually steams along at 30-34 WPM.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Alan Bloom]

On 05/01/2014 09:41 AM, Brian Alsop wrote:

I wonder where Dave got this idea from. I'd like to suggest it is
wishful thinking.



On 5/1/2014 16:22, Jim Brown wrote:

On 5/1/2014 9:15 AM, dave wrote:

But I suspect that the winners do not regularly run high speed.


I agree with Dave that it can be counterproductive to run high speed in 
a contest.  You lose too many contacts with stations who can't copy that 
fast.


I used to be able to copy 50 wpm pretty consistently in my head and I 
have a 40 wpm W1AW code proficiency certificate.  But it makes no sense 
to go that fast in a contest unless you are content to work only other 
QRQ stations.


I think around 30 wpm or so is reasonable.  Even operators who can't go 
quite that fast can probably get your callsign after listening for a 
minute.  Then when they call you at 18 or 20 wpm you can slow down to 
work them and then speed up again.


Years ago Chuck W1WPR, the chief op at W1AW, was listening to a QSO on 
40 meters where they were motoring along at 70 wpm or so (obviously 
using keyboards to send).  So Chuck recorded them on the reel-to-reel 
tape recorder and later played it back at half speed to see what they 
were saying.  He said that during the entire QSO neither one of them 
ever got the other station's call correct.  :=)


Alan N1AL
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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Phil Hystad]

>  He said that during the entire QSO neither one of them ever got the other 
> station's call correct.  :=)


Now, that made me laugh.

-phil, K7PEH



On May 1, 2014, at 10:07 AM, Alan Bloom  wrote:

> On 05/01/2014 09:41 AM, Brian Alsop wrote:
>> I wonder where Dave got this idea from. I'd like to suggest it is
>> wishful thinking.
> 
>> On 5/1/2014 16:22, Jim Brown wrote:
>>> On 5/1/2014 9:15 AM, dave wrote:
 But I suspect that the winners do not regularly run high speed.
> 
> I agree with Dave that it can be counterproductive to run high speed in a 
> contest.  You lose too many contacts with stations who can't copy that fast.
> 
> I used to be able to copy 50 wpm pretty consistently in my head and I have a 
> 40 wpm W1AW code proficiency certificate.  But it makes no sense to go that 
> fast in a contest unless you are content to work only other QRQ stations.
> 
> I think around 30 wpm or so is reasonable.  Even operators who can't go quite 
> that fast can probably get your callsign after listening for a minute.  Then 
> when they call you at 18 or 20 wpm you can slow down to work them and then 
> speed up again.
> 
> Years ago Chuck W1WPR, the chief op at W1AW, was listening to a QSO on 40 
> meters where they were motoring along at 70 wpm or so (obviously using 
> keyboards to send).  So Chuck recorded them on the reel-to-reel tape recorder 
> and later played it back at half speed to see what they were saying.  He said 
> that during the entire QSO neither one of them ever got the other station's 
> call correct.  :=)
> 
> Alan N1AL
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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

[End of Thread]

Folks - We are well past the max posting limit for a single topic. Let's end 
this thread now.


In general, if you see a huge number of posts on a topic, especially one that 
has drifted OT, do not post.  While we do closely limit posting topics, we'd 
like to see the majority of the posting traffic on the Elecraft list directly 
Elecraft related.


Remember that most readers of this list may not be interested in additional 
comments on a heavy traffic topic, and they are overloaded by the number of 
emails on it.


73,

Eric
(Your list moderator when I can get away from my day job.. )
elecraft.com

On 5/1/2014 10:10 AM, Phil Hystad wrote:

  He said that during the entire QSO neither one of them ever got the other 
station's call correct.  :=)


Now, that made me laugh.

-phil, K7PEH




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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft]

One edit to my post. We do not directly limit posting topics. (I left off the 
"not" in my original posting.)


I meant to type:
While we do not closely limit posting topics, we'd like to see the majority of 
the posting traffic on the Elecraft list directly Elecraft related.


(That is now corrected in the copy of my posting below.)

73
Eric
elecraft.com
-
On 5/1/2014 11:09 AM, Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ, Elecraft wrote:

[End of Thread]

Folks - We are well past the max posting limit for a single topic. Let's end 
this thread now.


In general, if you see a huge number of posts on a topic, especially one that 
has drifted OT, do not post.


Remember that most readers of this list may not be interested in additional 
comments on a heavy traffic topic, and they are overloaded by the number of 
emails on it.


73,

Eric
(Your list moderator when I can get away from my day job.. )
elecraft.com


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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Charlie T, K3ICH]

Back when I worked at the "old" Microlog Corp in Gaithersburg MD in the late 
70's, we found that a lot of rigs couldn't be keyed much faster than about 
50 WPM.   Key click filtering etc., made mush of the faster CW.A keyed 
string of dots looked like the output of a half wave rectifier !   To get 
around this limitation, in order to run >100 WPM CW, we'd revert to AFSK 
keying, copying the Mark frequency only.worked like a proverbial charm. 
It was like having our own private encryption system as nothing but a 
computer assisted copy system could decipher it.We never really asked if 
it was legal though.


And, to my knowledge, there was and still is NOTHING out there as good as 
the decoding algorithms those programmers wrote.  (The main one just 
happened to be the president of the company.)   I  tested every piece of 
competitive equipment I could get my hands on to prove this point.  Microlog 
was the absolute king-of-the-hill for CW copy, hand sent, bug sent or 
otherwise.  In order to fool it, you had to purposely send "rotten" code.


73, Charlie k3ICH





 - Original Message - 
From: "Phil Hystad" 

To: "Alan Bloom" 
Cc: 
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW


 He said that during the entire QSO neither one of them ever got the 
other station's call correct.  :=)



Now, that made me laugh.

-phil, K7PEH



On May 1, 2014, at 10:07 AM, Alan Bloom  wrote:


On 05/01/2014 09:41 AM, Brian Alsop wrote:

I wonder where Dave got this idea from. I'd like to suggest it is
wishful thinking.



On 5/1/2014 16:22, Jim Brown wrote:

On 5/1/2014 9:15 AM, dave wrote:

But I suspect that the winners do not regularly run high speed.


I agree with Dave that it can be counterproductive to run high speed in a 
contest.  You lose too many contacts with stations who can't copy that 
fast.


I used to be able to copy 50 wpm pretty consistently in my head and I 
have a 40 wpm W1AW code proficiency certificate.  But it makes no sense 
to go that fast in a contest unless you are content to work only other 
QRQ stations.


I think around 30 wpm or so is reasonable.  Even operators who can't go 
quite that fast can probably get your callsign after listening for a 
minute.  Then when they call you at 18 or 20 wpm you can slow down to 
work them and then speed up again.


Years ago Chuck W1WPR, the chief op at W1AW, was listening to a QSO on 40 
meters where they were motoring along at 70 wpm or so (obviously using 
keyboards to send).  So Chuck recorded them on the reel-to-reel tape 
recorder and later played it back at half speed to see what they were 
saying.  He said that during the entire QSO neither one of them ever got 
the other station's call correct.  :=)


Alan N1AL
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Re: [Elecraft] QRQ CW

[Chuck Smallhouse]

I'm by no means a QRQ CW operator, mainly I use CW for weak signal or 
EME QSOs.  I was barely able to successfully copy 20 WPM, to upgrade 
to Extra Class.  I attribute this to not having good CW capabilities 
when first licensed 67 years ago, but after many, many, high 
concentration, very weak, CW EME QSOs have improved my abilities.


Normal weak signal and EME speeds generally are about 13-15 WPM and 
during contest often extend to 18-20 WPM.  These seems to be good 
compromises for between the maximum speed that EME signals can be 
"decoded", and what most, not so experienced, CW operators are 
comfortable with.


When HF signals reach > 30 WPM I generally can only copy call signs 
after two or three repeats, This fact highly discourages me from 
participating in HF CW contests.


My biggest pet peeve is for HF CW operators to immigrate up to 6M CW, 
and bring their egocentric, extra high speed, "show off" CW, and 
questionable QSO, abilities with them.Many good DX QSOs are often 
lost or missed in these 35-45 WPM  exhibitions.


Yes, there are V/UHF operators that are using 6M, and would like to 
make an effort to improve their lacking CW skills.  Please give them a break !


Chuck,  W7CS

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