Re: [PSES] How to Measure Surface Conductivity?

[Marko Radojicic]

Try a conductive elastomer on the DMM probes. Intent is to not scratch the surface. However from your description, new coating appears functionally equivalent especially if bonding mechanisms use any type of sharp edge (BeCu gasket, screw, etc)Sent from my mobilePlease excuse brevity & grammar On Apr 11, 2023, at 12:45 PM, Brian Kunde  wrote:I have been given two samples of metal plates; one plated in our current material and the other with a new plating material we want to switch to in production.  I have been tasked to compare the electrical surface conductivity.What is the best way to do this?  How is this done in the industry?I have tried the following methods;1. DMM (Ohm Meter) = inconclusive results2. Used 5 volts from a current limited power supply and measured the current = inconclusive results3. Used our Ground Bond Tester set to 60 amps. One plate measured 3-4mΩ, the other 1-3mΩI measured 1 inch apart and from corner to corner. Test #3 above is the only test that showed any difference.  BTW, I use 3/4" squares of soft braid material between the probes and surface. The probes are zeroed out between tests.  So far, I can conclude that the new material is as good as, or slightly better than our current production plating material.  What more can I do, within reason?Thanks to all.The Other Brian
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Re: [PSES] EN62368 HBS - Rationale document or other background source?

[Marko Radojicic]

 Thank you to Greg, Mike, and the others who responded privately to my question!
...Marko

On Wednesday, July 13, 2022, 03:51:40 AM PDT, Greg H McClure 
<1b1c72eb8b04-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org> wrote:  
 
 
Marko,
 
  
 
The latest rationale document is IEC TR 62368-2, Edition 3.0, 2019-05 which is 
the companion document to IEC 62368-1:2018.
 
  
 
Gregory H. McClure
 
Lexmark Product Safety
 
Product Safety Team Lead
 
859-232-3240 office
 
  
 
From: Marko Radojicic <052300254e41-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2022 7:19 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] EN62368 HBS - Rationale document or other background source?
 
  
 
|  | 
You don't often get email 
from052300254e41-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ieee.org.Learn why this is important
  |  |


Hi All,
 
  
 
Is there any document or other source that explains how the requirements & 
limits were chosen in the 62368 Hazard Based Standard?
 
  
 
Barring that, I believe members of this list participated in that standard's 
development. I would appreciate if you would like to discuss. I am also open to 
a SME providing consulting services. For the latter, it would be best to 
unicast to me rather than reply to the entire group (per the IEEE emc-pstc 
guidelines, as I understand them).
 
  
 
Thanks,
 
Marko
 
radojic...@yahoo.com
 
mr...@amazon.com
 
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[PSES] EN62368 HBS - Rationale document or other background source?

[Marko Radojicic]

Hi All,
Is there any document or other source that explains how the requirements & 
limits were chosen in the 62368 Hazard Based Standard? 

Barring that, I believe members of this list participated in that standard's 
development. I would appreciate if you would like to discuss. I am also open to 
a SME providing consulting services. For the latter, it would be best to 
unicast to me rather than reply to the entire group (per the IEEE emc-pstc 
guidelines, as I understand them).

Thanks,Markoradojicicm@yahoo.commr...@amazon.com

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Re: [PSES] FCC Part 15 Testing in Situ

[Marko Radojicic]

Hi

Tried this once and the ambients confounded the measurements and this was well 
before Wi-Fi, IOT, and widespread use of cellphones. The digital thermometer on 
the wall was significantly above the part 15 limit! Even desk phones and 
copiers dominated measurements in some frequency ranges and locations. 

Also having 3-5m 360 degree access around the systems was not a reasonable 
expectation. 

In the end, we used best effort and engineering judgement to create a 
certification report that met, in our opinion, the intent of the law. Good 
luck- Hope your systems are installed someplace nice like, say, Hawaii. 

Sent from my mobile
Please excuse brevity & grammar 

> On Feb 21, 2019, at 12:48 PM, Jim Hulbert  
> wrote:
> 
> Equipment that is covered under FCC Rules Part 15, but which is too large to 
> test on an open area test site, can alternatively been tested in situ.  
> However, the rules state that the test should be performed at 3 different 
> representative installations of the equipment.  Does anyone on this forum 
> have experience doing this?  I would expect conducted emissions to be 
> reasonably similar, but I can see how environmental influences could result 
> in 3 different sets of radiated emissions data.  How do you make sense of the 
> data?
>  
> Jim Hulbert
>  
>  
> This email message may contain confidential, proprietary and/or privileged 
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> you have received it in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply 
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Re: [PSES] Environmental testing

[Marko Radojicic]

Telcordia GR-63 and GR-3108 are well known and commonly used in North America. 

Warning: Will cost several thousand US$, I believe. 

Sent from my mobile
Please excuse brevity & grammar 

> On May 2, 2018, at 8:53 PM, Amund Westin  wrote:
> 
> ETSI have published the EN 300 019-series which describes environmental tests 
> (climate, vibration, etc.) for telecom equipment during the conditions as 
> storage, transportation and in-use.
> I assume that regular electronic devices (not telecom devices) can use this 
> series to category the devices according to the classes described in the 
> series. In the absence of similar standards for general electronics, use of 
> EN 300 019 should be better than nothing.
> Or are there other environmental standards that’s recommended?
>  
> Cheers,
>  
> Best regards
> Amund
>  
>  
>  
> -
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Re: [PSES] NEBS GR1089 for Remote Radio Heads

[Marko Radojicic]

NEBS typically tablestakes for ATT and Verizon business.

For outdoor equipment, applicable environmental standard is GR-3108, probably 
Class 4.

Sent from my mobile
Please excuse brevity & grammar 

> On Mar 10, 2016, at 3:19 PM, Brian O'Connell  wrote:
> 
> Joe is probably the subject-matter expert for this stuff. My NEBS experience 
> is based on the grand total of ONE project. Depends on the carrier/provider. 
> Some service providers now use their own (internal) version of GR-core 
> standards. While original NEBS not scoped for pole-mounted stuff, the newer 
> stuff found in GR487 and NEMA IP have been (historically) cited by and are 
> oft adopted as 'code' by various local governmental bodies in North America, 
> so many cabinet and equipment makers do NEBS and NEMA certifications as pro 
> forma.
> 
> Brian
> 
> From: Joe Randolph [mailto:j...@randolph-telecom.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 3:06 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: Re: [PSES] NEBS GR1089 for Remote Radio Heads
> 
> Hi Charlie:
> 
> If the equipment will be used by a major US carrier in their own network, I 
> think NEBS GR-1089 compliance is likely to be required by the carrier.  
> 
> As you probably know, the NEBS requirements are industry standards rather 
> than regulatory requirements, so NEBS compliance is not required by law.
> 
> However, most carriers place great importance on the reliability of the 
> equipment used in their network, and compliance with the NEBS requirements 
> gives them some assurance that the product will hold up well in the intended 
> environment.  For example, the lightning immunity requirements in GR-1089 are 
> generally the most stringent lightning requirements worldwide.
> 
> In the end, though, whether NEBS compliance is required, or what subset of 
> the NEBS requirements will be required, gets down to a negotiation between 
> the manufacturer and the carrier.
> 
> 
> Joe Randolph
> Telecom Design Consultant
> Randolph Telecom, Inc.
> 781-721-2848 (USA)
> j...@randolph-telecom.com
> http://www.randolph-telecom.com
> 
> From: Charlie Blackham [mailto:char...@sulisconsultants.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 4:58 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [PSES] NEBS GR1089 for Remote Radio Heads
> 
> All
> 
> Client makes outdoor, pole mounted, LTE radio heads and they are receiving a 
> number of customer enquiries regarding status of NEBS compliance.
> Does anyone have experience of whether the major US operators require full 
> NEBS EMC compliance for outdoor, data equipment - or is it more of a "nice to 
> have"?
> 
> Regards
> Charlie
> 
> Charlie Blackham
> Sulis Consultants Ltd
> Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
> LinkedIn: uk.linkedin.com/in/charlieblackham/
> Web: www.sulisconsultants.com
> Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247
> 
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[PSES] Juniper Networks Job Opening - EMC Compliance Technologist

[Marko Radojicic]

Hello All,
We have an exciting growth position for a very senior EMC Technologist. 
Position is located in Sunnyvale (Silicon Valley) California - relocation 
assistance available.
If interested, please submit your resume per the instructions. I am the hiring 
manager so feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions.
https://careers.juniper.net/psc/careers_1/EMPLOYEE/HRMS/c/HRS_HRAM.HRS_APP_SCHJOB.GBL?Page=HRS_APP_JBPST&Action=U&FOCUS=Applicant&SiteId=1&JobOpeningId=929785&PostingSeq=1#.VTGca_nF8ep


Regards,Marko

| About the Position:
Lead the development of predictive Compliance design methodologies and tools in 
the areas of EMC, Safety, GR-63, and Reliability. Scope is from integrated 
circuits to full systems and everything in-between.
The immediate emphasis will be on EMC prediction methodologies & design 
innovations and applying them to real world problems.
You will contribute to making Juniper products the most cost-effective and 
quickest to market by applying these newly developed design methods & rules.

Responsibilities:
In conjunction with the existing high-performance Compliance team –
Analyze existing issues, proactively identify future issues.
Use analytic & modeling techniques to develop design rules and/or drive vendors 
to address identified issues.
Develop novel solutions that meet or exceed development requirements for cost.
Team with Hardware, Mechanical, and Power design to implement new design 
features.

Minimum Qualifications:
Engineering degree with strong background in electromagnetics is desired along 
with at least 10 years of relevant experience.

Preferred Qualifications:
Advanced engineering degree with specialization in electromagnetics is desired 
along with at least 10 years of experience leading a group in the development 
of EMC design & test methodologies. Five years background in design for 
compliance in Safety, GR-63, and Reliability. Strong track record of delivering 
to schedule and budget. Ability to influence partners, vendors, and standards 
bodies. Great communications to team members and higher levels of management.

Other Information:
Relocation is available for this position
Minimal travel is required for this position - less than 5%. |
|  |   |



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Re: [PSES] Higher EMI from ASIC built with new process

[Marko Radojicic]

A few items to consider

1 Core voltage
2 Serdes voltage
3 Internal chip architecture - new chip may have millions more transistors

Higher voltages will result in much higher emi even if rise/fall time is same.

...Marko

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 22, 2014, at 9:03 PM, ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Ken, 
> 
> Thanks for your response.  The rise/fall time in the new ASIC is firmware 
> controlled to match the rise/fall time of the older ASIC.  Measurements were 
> made with a 30 GHz bandwidth scope, so I don't think scope bandwidth is 
> limiting the rise/fall time measurement.  I agree that flip chip will result 
> in faster rise time, but measurements are being made at the end of the 2" 
> long PCB trace, using SMA connectors. 
> 
> Regards
> Ravinder Ajmani
> HGST, a Western Digital company
> 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy
> San Jose, CA 95119-1003
> ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com 
> 
> 
> Ken Wyatt   
> 03/22/2014 08:18 PM
> 
> To
> "ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com"  
> cc
> "EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG" 
> Subject
> Re: [PSES] Higher EMI from ASIC built with new process
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It could be your scope doesn't really show the true rise time of the faster 
> chip. I suspect the flip chip really does have faster rise times.
> 
> Kenneth Wyatt 
> Wyatt Technical Services LLC 
> Woodland Park, CO 
> k...@emc-seminars.com 
> www.emc-seminars.com 
> (Sent from my iPad) 
> 
> On Mar 22, 2014, at 8:38 PM, ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Experts, 
> 
> I am comparing EMI from two ASICs.  Both have identical rise/fall times and 
> signal amplitude.  Yet the ASIC built with the later technology not only has 
> significantly higher radiated emissions, but also shows much broader noise 
> spectrum.  PCB stackup and layout is identical.  Please help me understand 
> what other factors can be responsible for this anomaly. 
> 
> The older ASIC uses a wirebond package, whereas the new ASIC has flip chip 
> package. 
> 
> Regards
> Ravinder Ajmani
> HGST, a Western Digital company
> 5601 Great Oaks Pkwy
> San Jose, CA 95119-1003
> ravinder.ajm...@hgst.com
> -
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Re: [PSES] RoHS Software Tools?

[Marko Radojicic]

Hello,

First of all, I believe your boss is correct. A company's obligation under the 
RoHS Directive is to be able to verify that the declaration of conformity is 
valid. If you do not have RoHS traceability of all your components, then how 
can you be sure of compliance?

There are many component engineering tools such as SiliconExpert that may have 
some compliance data. It has been my experience that you need a dedicated 
system to really account for RoHS and REACH. We have extensively evaluated a 
couple and are currently using Q-Point. RoHS does not just deal with board 
components but all parts of the assembly - fab, mechanical components, cables, 
etc.

...Marko




On Monday, January 6, 2014 9:52 AM, Brian Oconnell  
wrote:
 
IPC175x stuff and the associated XML seems to be the basis of what most are 
using. Most 'turn-key' stuff is proprietary and browser-based; that is, your 
data is in the cloud (typically Cumulonimbus). There are multiple sources for 
these services.

'Japan Green' also has standardized this stuff, which is more complex, but 
includes most other international substance/material tracking requirements.

If your ERP systems include automated ECO and BoM, and if ROHS/REACH is part of 
component approval process, then you are less than 500 Python LOC from database 
interface, and generating required reports tracking documents.

Brian


From: Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] 
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2014 9:16 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] RoHS Software Tools?

Happy New Year!!!
 
My boss is looking for help and advice. He is in charge of tracking RoHS, 
Reach, County of Origin, etc. status on all components and assemblies our 
company deals with. He wonders if there is a Turn-Key software program or 
database system that is geared toward tracking this kind of information.  He 
feels to do a "thorough job" with RoHS, he needs to track the composition of 
every component.
 
Any suggestions? What does your company use? Is my boss making more work for 
himself than he needs to (he does that)??
 
Thanks in advance.
 
The Other Brian

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[PSES] Juniper Networks Job Opening (Sao Paulo, Brazil): Homologation Engineer

[Marko Radojicic]

Hello All,


Exciting new position at Juniper. If interested, please send resume directly to 
the hiring manager, Michael Azar (ma...@juniper.net).

Responsibilities
Support South American homologation programs for Juniper
Networks.  Responsibilities include:
* Primary responsibility
is toobtain Anatel Type Approval Certificates (Homologation) in Brazil.

* Work directly with labs and OCDs in Brazil to test all Juniper 
hardware against latest Brazilian EMC, Safety, and Telecom requirements 
* Interface directly with Anatel OR OCDs to complete the approval 
process 
* Configure, test, and troubleshoot Juniper systems 
* Manage and track Homologation schedules to support global sales 
efforts 
* Monitor and communicate changes in South American Homologation 
standards and processes 
* Ability to manage compliance and homologation
programs for other Latin American countries is strongly desired

* Creative problem solving, ability to identify and implement process 
improvements, and a proven track record of influencing regulatory agencies
* Fluency in Portuguese
and English is required. Spanish fluency is desirable.
* Minimal travel required
To
be successful, the candidate must be able to work independently, communicate
effectively, and function well within a team environment. 

ABOUT JUNIPER NETWORKS 
Juniper Networks is in the business of network innovation. From devices to data 
centers, from consumers to cloud providers, Juniper Networks delivers the 
software, silicon and systems that transform the experience and economics of 
networking. Our products and technology run the world’s largest and most 
demanding networks today, enabling service providers, enterprises, and 
governments to create value and accelerate business success. Everyday our 
9,000+ colleagues come together across 46 countries to realize our company 
vision – Connect Everything, Empower Everyone. We are innovating in ways that 
empower our customers, our partners and ultimately, everyone, in a connected 
world. These customers include the top 130 global service providers, 96 of the 
Fortune 100 and hundreds of public sector organizations.

WHERE WILL YOU DO YOUR BEST WORK?

Wherever you are in the world, whether it’s downtown Sunnyvale or London, 
Westford or Bangalore, Juniper is a place that was founded on disruptive 
thinking – where colleague innovation is not only valued, but expected. We 
believe that the great task of delivering a new network for the next decade is 
delivered through the creativity and commitment of our people. The Juniper Way 
is the commitment to all our colleagues that the culture and company inspire 
their best work—their life’s work. At Juniper we believe this is more than a 
job - it’s an opportunity to help change the world...k
independently, communicate effectively, and function well within a team
environment.


Link: 
https://careers.juniper.net/psc/careers/EMPLOYEE/HRMS/c/HRS_HRAM.HRS_CE.GBL, 
search for "Homologation" or jobid 926295.

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Re: [PSES] Job titles

[Marko Radojicic]

Modifying your resume / title for the targeted position is always a good 
strategy.

It doesn't hurt to add some modifiers at the end depending on who you are 
talking to:

"Product Compliance Specialist - EMC"
"Product Compliance Specialist - Homologation"

"Product Compliance Specialist - Safety"

"Product Compliance Specialist - NEBS"


And on and on 

Good luck,
Marko



 From: "Allen, Chris" 
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2013 1:23 AM
Subject: Re: [PSES] Job titles
 


Hi Doug,
 
I have added the word “Product” before Compliance Engineer. This narrows down 
the type of role a little and you can always use something more specific like 
Telecoms, Automotive etc. depending on what job you are applying for.
 
If you want to jazz it up a bit try “Product Compliance Specialist”.
 
Good luck,
Chris.
 
From:Pawson, James [mailto:james.paw...@echostar.com] 
Sent: 01 October 2013 08:50
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Job titles
 
When explaining to my (non-technical) friends what I do (EMC Engineer), I 
usually say something along the lines of:
 
“You know when you put your mobile next to your speakers and it goes 
da-da-da-da-daaa-da-da? My job is to stop that happening to the things we 
make. We can’t interfere with mobile phones and they can’t interfere with our 
stuff.” Simples.
 
(Nearly) everyone has a mobile these days so bringing the effect of what you do 
into a frame of reference that they understand is the first step. Ed’s plane 
analogy is good – you are the person that stops them plummeting out of the sky 
and dying! You are a HERO!
 
Best of luck with the job hunting
James 
 
From:Ed Price [mailto:edpr...@cox.net] 
Sent: 01 October 2013 03:34
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Job titles
 
Doug:
 
You can be modest for all eternity, but if you want to be effective in 
marketing yourself, you have to grab their attention and reach their mind in 
just a few seconds; you have to put on a show. Obviously, this speech would be 
tailored to suite your audience, but you could start with a smile, calmly but 
confidently saying that:
 
I’m an engineer who, while understanding the technical aspects of your product, 
can also smooth your way into new markets, minimize your development costs, 
protect you and your company from legal attack and give your customers a reason 
for them to buy your next product.
 
And then, as they recover from the shock of meeting either a blowhard or the 
guy they should really hire, you move in just a bit, smile and shrug a tiny 
bit, and ask which of those areas he finds interesting and would like to talk 
about in some detail. You put the lead in his hands, and let him tell you what 
to say next.
 
I think that’s a great approach. BTW, did I mention that I’m not employed now? 
Seriously, engineers usually are not adept salesmen, so whenever you get a 
chance, watch how good salesmen make a pitch and close a deal. Volunteer to do 
a field trip with your company’s best salesman and observe how he does things; 
ask him about strategy and tactics. You might not think you are a salesman, but 
you are always selling yourself, always.
 
When I would be asked what I did, I would generally say that I was an EMC 
engineer, and I worked to make sure that electronic gadgets worked happily with 
other electronic gadgets. I would go on to say that, for instance, as a pilot 
gets ready to take off, he might dial in 15 degrees of wing flaps, and little 
electric motors in the airplane would move the wing flaps. And I was the one 
who made sure those motors didn’t confuse the other circuits in the plane and 
accidently erase the navigation computer or command the wheels to fold up.
 
That was about the limit of average citizen’s attention span, so you need to 
learn when to stop and change the subject, like asking them how they polish 
bowling balls or something.
 
Ed Price
WB6WSN
Chula Vista, CA USA
 
From:Doug Powell [mailto:doug...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 6:18 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Job titles
 
All,
 
Of all the people on this forum I'm certain we all share to some extent the 
same quandary. 
 
I am currently searching for work either as full time or as contract. Part of 
the coaching I received is to develop a 30 second elevator speech to describe 
myself to almost anyone. One of the difficulties I face is confusion about the 
general term Compliance Engineer.  
 
Often I see people confuse this with a compliance officer in banking or a 
medical professional of some kind. A third possibility is some sort of a field 
auditor.  
 
My question is, how do any of you express what you do to the uninitiated, 
whether in a job title or even to family and friends? 
 
Thanks, - doug
 
Douglas Powell
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01
  
-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety En

Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom Center Locations

[Marko Radojicic]

Hi Joe,

Totally agree that telecom interface lines are usually TNV-3. I am looking at 
the other end of the system however - the battery input to the network element 
which are classified as TNV-2, agreed?

CO Battery feeds: 

- Run inside for relatively short lengths compared to interface lines,
- Are  not exposed to lightning or power cross, 
- Contain no super-imposed ringing, and 
- Are connected to several tons of batteries which act as large line-to-line 
capacitors.

BTW - I contact ETSI to ask this question as was recommended. I would be really 
surprised if this information wasn't available somewhere but it may require a 
lot of work to assemble. Not sure I have that much energy to investigate 

...Marko



 From: Joe Randolph 
To: Marko Radojicic ; "EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG" 
 
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom Center Locations
 


Hi Marko:

Conventional analog phone lines are typically classified as TNV-3. 
They get this classification because they run outside (exposed to
lightning) *and* they have AC power ringing signals on them.

If the lines run outside but do not carry AC power ringing signals, they
typically qualify as TNV-1.  A T1/E1 line is typically classified as
TNV-1.

If the lines are used only within a building and do not carry AC power
ringing, they can often be classified as SELV.  However, no
"ordinary" phone line that comes from a central office can be
classified as SELV.


Joe Randolph
Telecom Design Consultant
Randolph Telecom, Inc.
781-721-2848 (USA)
j...@randolph-telecom.com
http://www.randolph-telecom.com






Hi Joe,
>
>Thanks for the clarification. I wouldn't want to be living on one of
those "long loop / double battery" lines. Sounds
dangerous!
>
>My original intent was to understand the safety implications &
exposures of -60V battery plant feeds. Agree with the TNV rating although
our experience has been SELV for -48V and TNV-2 for -60V (no overvoltage
transients on the battery feed). In either case (TNV-2 or TNV-3), the
insulation requirements are the same, I believe. 
>
>Thanks again,
>Marko
>
>
>From: Joe Randolph

>To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
>Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 11:07 AM
>Subject: Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom Center Locations
>
>Hi Marko:
>
>It is important to understand that over time, a variety of different
central offices were installed in various countries, and these sometime
used different battery voltages.  The entries in Table 1.5.1 in ETS
300 001 represent what each country reported having in service at the
time the document was written.  While the majority of the central
offices in a given country may have been 48 VDC, if there were a few that
used 60 VDC, this was reported and was incorporated into ETS 300
001.  
>
>Some countries (and I believe Norway is an example) have made an effort
to phase out 60 VDC batteries in favor of 48 VDC.  However, as far
as I know, Germany and Austria continue to use 60 VDC.
>
>Also note that what might be called the "standard battery
voltage" in a given country is always between 48 VDC and 60
VDC.  This is the range of battery voltages used on normal analog
lines.  For unusually long lines, however, some countries
occasionally resort to using a "double battery" that can reach
values over 100 VDC.  These situations are not typical and the high
battery voltages are used only on very long lines with a lot of DC
resistance.  The entry of 89 - 104 VDC for France is an example of
this.
>
>Table 1.5.2 ( test values for feeding conditions) may be a better source
for determining what each country had in mind at the time the document
was written.  These are the actual values to be used for the
prescribed tests.  Note that the double-battery for France does not
appear.
>
>At the outset of this thread I neglected to ask you why you are looking
for this information.  Are you interested in compatibility issues,
safety issues, or something else?  In terms of compatibility the
higher voltages typically don't represent a problem for most equipment,
since the higher voltages are usually coupled with higher source
resistance in the feed circuit, so that the short-circuit feed current
remains below 100 mA in most cases.  For safety compliance, I
believe that all of the standard battery voltages now used in Europe
qualify for classification as TNV-3.
>
>
>
>Joe Randolph
>Telecom Design Consultant
>Randolph Telecom, Inc.
>781-721-2848 (USA)
>j...@randolph-telecom.com
>http://www.randolph-telecom.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Hi Joe, Tom,
>>
>>Thanks! I was not aware of ETS 300 001. Since this standard is available
free of charge (thanks ETSI), I could quickly review. 
>>
>>It appears that you are getting information from Table 1.5.1, Column Vf,
with any 

Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom Center Locations

[Marko Radojicic]

Hi Joe,

Thanks for the clarification. I wouldn't want to be living on one of those 
"long loop / double battery" lines. Sounds dangerous!

My original intent was to understand the safety implications & exposures of 
-60V battery plant feeds. Agree with the TNV rating although our experience has 
been SELV for -48V and TNV-2 for -60V (no overvoltage transients on the battery 
feed). In either case (TNV-2 or TNV-3), the insulation requirements are the 
same, I believe. 

Thanks again,
Marko



 From: Joe Randolph 
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom Center Locations
 


Hi Marko:

It is important to understand that over time, a variety of different
central offices were installed in various countries, and these sometime
used different battery voltages.  The entries in Table 1.5.1 in ETS
300 001 represent what each country reported having in service at the
time the document was written.  While the majority of the central
offices in a given country may have been 48 VDC, if there were a few that
used 60 VDC, this was reported and was incorporated into ETS 300
001.  

Some countries (and I believe Norway is an example) have made an effort
to phase out 60 VDC batteries in favor of 48 VDC.  However, as far
as I know, Germany and Austria continue to use 60 VDC.

Also note that what might be called the "standard battery
voltage" in a given country is always between 48 VDC and 60
VDC.  This is the range of battery voltages used on normal analog
lines.  For unusually long lines, however, some countries
occasionally resort to using a "double battery" that can reach
values over 100 VDC.  These situations are not typical and the high
battery voltages are used only on very long lines with a lot of DC
resistance.  The entry of 89 - 104 VDC for France is an example of
this.

Table 1.5.2 ( test values for feeding conditions) may be a better source
for determining what each country had in mind at the time the document
was written.  These are the actual values to be used for the
prescribed tests.  Note that the double-battery for France does not
appear.

At the outset of this thread I neglected to ask you why you are looking
for this information.  Are you interested in compatibility issues,
safety issues, or something else?  In terms of compatibility the
higher voltages typically don't represent a problem for most equipment,
since the higher voltages are usually coupled with higher source
resistance in the feed circuit, so that the short-circuit feed current
remains below 100 mA in most cases.  For safety compliance, I
believe that all of the standard battery voltages now used in Europe
qualify for classification as TNV-3.



Joe Randolph
Telecom Design Consultant
Randolph Telecom, Inc.
781-721-2848 (USA)
j...@randolph-telecom.com
http://www.randolph-telecom.com/






Hi Joe, Tom,
>
>Thanks! I was not aware of ETS 300 001. Since this standard is available
free of charge (thanks ETSI), I could quickly review. 
>
>It appears that you are getting information from Table 1.5.1, Column Vf,
with any maximum level that equals 60V. If that is not correct, please
let me know.
>
>The values for France (89 - 104V), Greece (44 - 66V), Netherlands (42 -
66V), and Poland (60 ± 6V) give me pause for concern. It appears to
indicate that 66V (and 104V !! for France) is a nominal input voltage. I
wonder about the validity of the information in this table.
>
>
>
>
>
>Hi John,
>
>What is the best way to submit a question to ETSI? 
>
>Poking around a bit on the ETSI.org website doesn't return anything
obvious. The TC-TE committee which created this document no longer
exists. It appears that the TC-EE committee is now the right forum and I
will send a message to Marcello Pagnozzi as indicated below. If there is
a better path, that would be great if you could let me know.
>
>EE Environmental Engineering
> Chairman: Beniamino Gorini, Alcatel-Lucent 
>Secretary: Paolo Gemma, Huawei Technologies (UK) 
>Contact Person: Marcello
Pagnozzi 
>
>Regards,
>Marko
>
>
>From: John Woodgate 

>To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
>Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:26 PM
>Subject: Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom Center Locations
>
>In message
<1376519590.33659.yahoomail...@web161404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, 
>dated Wed, 14 Aug 2013, Marko Radojicic

writes:
>
>>Has anyone seen a list or a description of where Telecom Central 
>>Offices with -60Vdc (nominal) battery plants are located?
>
>It should be possible to submit this question to ETSI itself.
>-- 
>OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
>Why is the stapler always empty just when you want it?
>
>John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK
>
>-
>-

Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom Center Locations

[Marko Radojicic]

Hi Joe, Tom,

Thanks! I was not aware of ETS 300 001. Since this standard is available free 
of charge (thanks ETSI), I could quickly review. 

It appears that you are getting information from Table 1.5.1, Column Vf, with 
any maximum level that equals 60V. If that is not correct, please let me know.

The values for France (89 - 104V), Greece (44 - 66V), Netherlands (42 - 66V), 
and Poland (60 ± 6V) give me pause for concern. It appears to indicate that 66V 
(and 104V !! for France) is a nominal input voltage. I wonder about the 
validity of the information in this table.





Hi John,

What is the best way to submit a question to ETSI? 

Poking around a bit on the ETSI.org website doesn't return anything obvious. 
The TC-TE committee which created this document no longer exists. It appears 
that the TC-EE committee is now the right forum and I will send a message to 
Marcello Pagnozzi as indicated below. If there is a better path, that would be 
great if you could let me know.

EE  Environmental Engineering 
  Chairman: Beniamino Gorini, Alcatel-Lucent 
Secretary: Paolo Gemma, Huawei Technologies (UK) 
Contact Person: Marcello Pagnozzi  

Regards,

Marko



 From: John Woodgate 
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2013 11:26 PM
Subject: Re: [PSES] -60Vdc Telecom Center Locations
 

In message <1376519590.33659.yahoomail...@web161404.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>, 
dated Wed, 14 Aug 2013, Marko Radojicic  writes:

>Has anyone seen a list or a description of where Telecom Central 
>Offices with -60Vdc (nominal) battery plants are located?

It should be possible to submit this question to ETSI itself.
-- 
OOO - Own Opinions Only. With best wishes. See www.jmwa.demon.co.uk
Why is the stapler always empty just when you want it?

John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK

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[PSES] -60Vdc Telecom Center Locations

[Marko Radojicic]

Hello All,

Google has not been helpful. Perhaps someone here has more information than the 
Interwebs.

Has anyone seen a list or a description of where Telecom Central Offices with 
-60Vdc (nominal) battery plants are located? Anecdotal stories handed down over 
the years say that -60Vdc offices are only present in eastern Europe but I 
cannot find any documented evidence.

Ideally it would be a table that states the percentage of COs that use -60Vdc 
in that country, i.e., Poland xx%, Germany yy%, etc.

ETSI EN 300 132-2 states that these offices are no longer preferred but are 
still deployed. Exact wording is below. 

Thanks,
Marko

--
Annex A (informative):
>-60 VDC systems
>
>
>When equipment is added to existing -60 VDC systems the requirements given in 
>table A.1, deviating from the
>requirements of the present document, may be used.
>
>
>NOTE: This variation may be necessary due to established national practice 
>which cannot be changed for a long
>period of time, for instance when an existing network structure is based on 
>-60 VDC power feeding.
--


-

This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
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Re: [PSES] "C-press compliant pin connector/system"

[Marko Radojicic]

Hi,

The two companies that I am most familiar with is TE (former Tyco Electronics) 
and Molex.

Here is a link to a TE press-fit guide: 
http://tooling.te.com/pdf/1-1773439-0.pdf

...Marko



 From: "Crane, Lauren" 
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 8:10 AM
Subject: Re: [PSES] "C-press compliant pin connector/system"
 

 
Marko, 
 
Thanks! I think I have a rough idea of the meaning now. Can you tell me a 
couple manufacturers of such things so I can get a couple pictures off the web?
 
Regards,
Lauren 
 
From:Marko Radojicic [mailto:radojic...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 8:29 PM
To: Crane, Lauren; EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] "C-press compliant pin connector/system"
 
Hi Lauren,
 
Yay, a question that I can answer!
 
"Compliant pin" is a through-hole pin-in-via system that physically presses the 
pins inside the plated via barrels. The pins need to have some 'compliancy' so 
that they deform and provide mechanical retention. Sort of like a nail in wood 
except the 'nail' (pin) is soft and the wood (pcb via) is hard.
 
"C-press" just refers to the cross-section profile of the pin. In this case, 
the x-section is in the form of a "C".
 
...Marko
 


 
From:"Crane, Lauren" 
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 6:39 PM
Subject: [PSES] "C-press compliant pin connector/system"
 
EU RoHS has a couple exemptions related to lead used in a “C-press compliant 
pin connector systems”. Could someone tell me what a C-press compliant pin 
connector system is? 
 
I’ve tried Google, but I only get hits on RoHS and everyone’s reiteration of 
the RoHS exemptions. 
 
Regards,
Lauren Crane
KLA-Tencor
 
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Re: [PSES] "C-press compliant pin connector/system"

[Marko Radojicic]

Hi Lauren,

Yay, a question that I can answer!

"Compliant pin" is a through-hole pin-in-via system that physically presses the 
pins inside the plated via barrels. The pins need to have some 'compliancy' so 
that they deform and provide mechanical retention. Sort of like a nail in wood 
except the 'nail' (pin) is soft and the wood (pcb via) is hard.

"C-press" just refers to the cross-section profile of the pin. In this case, 
the x-section is in the form of a "C".

...Marko



 From: "Crane, Lauren" 
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 6:39 PM
Subject: [PSES] "C-press compliant pin connector/system"
 

 
EU RoHS has a couple exemptions related to lead used in a “C-press compliant 
pin connector systems”. Could someone tell me what a C-press compliant pin 
connector system is? 
 
I’ve tried Google, but I only get hits on RoHS and everyone’s reiteration of 
the RoHS exemptions. 
 
Regards,
Lauren Crane
KLA-Tencor
 
-


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[PSES] Juniper Networks - Compliance Manager opening, WLAN Focus

[Marko Radojicic]

Hello Group,

We have a great new opening coming very soon at Juniper Networks in Sunnyvale, 
CA. 

This should hit the external website this week but here is an advanced notice. 
Let me know directly (off list) if you have any questions or send your resume 
directly to me.

Thanks,
Marko
mradoji...@juniper.net

Responsibilities
- Manage the Juniper WLAN Regulatory Compliance function. 

    -> Responsibilities include planning, budgeting, project and people 
management. 
    ->This responsibility will involve OEM/ODM and internal resource management 
as well as hands-on product validation. 
- Team with the RF Design group to design systems for optimal radio 
performance. 
- Provide interface to Homologation Engineering department for regulatory 
approvals. 
- Responsibilities for managing other aspects of Compliance Engineering is a 
possibility based on candidate qualifications (Safety, NEBS, Environmental). 

Requirements
- Extensive knowledge of WLAN Compliance. Demonstrated leadership at industry 
fora such as the TCB Council is desirable. 

- Great communicator, self-starter, team player. 
- 10+ years in HW Regulatory compliance with 2+ years WLAN compliance 
- 3+ years in a supervisory role - project, budget, people management


ABOUT JUNIPER NETWORKS  
Juniper Networks is in the business of network innovation. From devices to data 
centers, from consumers to cloud providers, Juniper Networks delivers the 
software, silicon and systems that transform the experience and economics of 
networking. Our products and technology run the world’s largest and most 
demanding networks today, enabling service providers, enterprises, and 
governments to create value and accelerate business success. Everyday our 
9,000+ colleagues come together across 46 countries to realize our company 
vision – Connect Everything, Empower Everyone. We are innovating in ways that 
empower our customers, our partners and ultimately, everyone, in a connected 
world. These customers include the top 130 global service providers, 96 of the 
Fortune 100 and hundreds of public sector organizations. 

WHERE WILL YOU DO YOUR BEST WORK? 
Wherever you are in the world, whether it’s downtown Sunnyvale or London, 
Westford or Bangalore, Juniper is a place that was founded on disruptive 
thinking – where colleague innovation is not only valued, but expected. We 
believe that the great task of delivering a new network for the next decade is 
delivered through the creativity and commitment of our people. The Juniper Way 
is the commitment to all our colleagues that the culture and company inspire 
their best work—their life’s work. At Juniper we believe this is more than a 
job - it’s an opportunity to help change the world...


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Re: [PSES] receiving/approval processes under fire

[Marko Radojicic]

Hi Brian,

Sounds like a fun time. :(

Can't comment on any except: - EMC re-test for some changes of PCB layout.

That is definitely a possibility but the change has to significantly change 
some EMC parameter - clock speed, edges, extra high-speed surface tracks, 
outside interface circuits, etc. Otherwise it really isn't worth doing. Devil 
is always in the details.

...Marko



 From: Brian Oconnell 
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:00 PM
Subject: [PSES] receiving/approval processes under fire
 
The siege is underway. The senior design engineers claim that, after
conference with colleagues in other companies, many of my conformity
requirements have never been required by their compliance people.

Some of the receiving/approval processes that are in dispute:
- CoC from plastic component supplier that is not recognized molder.
- processed wire tags from re-spoolers.
- document audits from suppliers having no agency recognition.
- labeling requirements for re-packaged chemicals.
- EMC re-test for some changes of PCB layout.
- update of CB report when values on some safety-critical components
changed.

The last one I slammed and immediately won the argument. Others may be more
difficult. Yes, I know that UL and others publish papers on traceability
requirements.

So none of you regulatory people do this??

Brian

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Re: [PSES] RoHS

[Marko Radojicic]

Gary,

I share your pain.

Another possibility is to offer to pay the company for the testing. That keeps 
the liability with them, gets you your data, and all for the price you would 
pay to do it yourself.

Good luck,
Marko



 From: "McInturff, Gary" 
To: 'Marko Radojicic' ; "'EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG'" 
 
Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2012 10:35 AM
Subject: RE: [PSES] RoHS
 

 
Guys,
all I can tell you is that this is a very large and international company, each
of you would recognized the name if I put it up. The problem is a bit recursive
– they are aware and do RoHS on materials, but because they know the
requirements and make so many materials there system still remains flooded with
existing and new materials so they prioritize and this is low on the old list
based on world usage. Unfortunately it is the best adhesive for the surface
being bonded that we know of. We aren’t big enough to move them – and by the
way I can doubt any of us on the list can move them and I know that a few of us
are on huge multinationals.
A
bit of the problem is we have used the material freely for years because
medical equipment was exempt from RoHS until just recently (or soon).
 
They
can’t jump and we can’t jump for some months, hence the quandary. Fortunately a
list member has given me a lab that can test. Even if we have to do it for a
quarter or two and be responsible for the RoHS certification ourselves it’s
really the only choice at the moment. 
 
Gary
 
From:Marko Radojicic
[mailto:radojic...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 8:53 AM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] RoHS
 
+1
 
Fully agree with Chris' statement
below and with Brian Kunde's earlier message on "spot check" only.
 
Supplier management in the RoHS
domain is difficult but getting easier as more and more vendors get the message
that it is not optional.
 
...Marko
 


 
From:"James, Chris" 
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2012 6:40 AM
Subject: Re: [PSES] RoHS
 
If the mfr will not divulge the make up of the adhesive then
switch to one who will. Any adhesive vendor placing their product into the EU
either directly or indirectly should be cognizant with the requirements of
REACH and almost certainly RoHS.
 
Chris
 
 
 
From:Kunde,
Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] 
Sent: 09 February 2012 14:36
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] RoHS
 
Even if
you tested the adhesive, since you do not have manufacturing control and the
manufacturer is unable or unwilling to declare their adhesive RoHS compliant,
you will not know if the adhesive will remain RoHS compliant. The manufacturer
could change their adhesive without your knowledge. You would have to do lot
sample testing of your production.
 
The
Other Brian
 
From:emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of McInturff, Gary
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 5:34 PM
To: 'EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG'
Subject: RoHS
 
We have an adhesive with no RoHS certs, Are there RoHS capable
test labs in the US. I would presume there is some % of total content that is
allowed if one only knew what materials are in the adhesive. Not my area just
asking for a panicked compatriot. He’s looking for any means at the moment to
clear this gap.
Gary McInturff
Reliability/Compliance Engineer     
 
  
Esterline Interface Technologies Featuring
ADVANCED INPUT, MEMTRON, and LRE MEDICAL products   
600 W. Wilbur Avenue
Coeur d’Alene, ID  83815-9496
Office:208-635-8306
Cell:  509 868 2279
Toll Free: 800-444-5923 X 1238
gary.mcintu...@esterline.com
 
 
www.esterline.com/interfacetechnologies
 
Technology, Innovation, Performance... 
 
 
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LECO Corporation
Notice: This communication may contain confidential information intended for
the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, please destroy it
and notify us of the error. Thank you. 
-

This
message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion
lis

Re: [PSES] RoHS

[Marko Radojicic]

+1

Fully agree with Chris' statement below and with Brian Kunde's earlier message 
on "spot check" only.

Supplier management in the RoHS domain is difficult but getting easier as more 
and more vendors get the message that it is not optional.

...Marko



 From: "James, Chris" 
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2012 6:40 AM
Subject: Re: [PSES] RoHS
 

If the mfr will not divulge the make up of the adhesive then switch to one who 
will. Any adhesive vendor placing their product into the EU either directly or 
indirectly should be cognizant with the requirements of REACH and almost 
certainly RoHS.
 
Chris
 
 
 
From:Kunde, Brian [mailto:brian_ku...@lecotc.com] 
Sent: 09 February 2012 14:36
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] RoHS
 
Even if you tested the adhesive, since you do not have manufacturing control 
and the manufacturer is unable or unwilling to declare their adhesive RoHS 
compliant, you will not know if the adhesive will remain RoHS compliant. The 
manufacturer could change their adhesive without your knowledge. You would have 
to do lot sample testing of your production.
 
The Other Brian
 
From:emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of McInturff, Gary
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 5:34 PM
To: 'EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG'
Subject: RoHS
 
We have an adhesive with no RoHS certs, Are there RoHS capable test labs in the 
US. I would presume there is some % of total content that is allowed if one 
only knew what materials are in the adhesive. Not my area just asking for a 
panicked compatriot. He’s looking for any means at the moment to clear this gap.
Gary McInturff
Reliability/Compliance Engineer     
 
  
Esterline Interface Technologies Featuring
ADVANCED INPUT, MEMTRON, and LRE MEDICAL products   
600 W. Wilbur Avenue
Coeur d’Alene, ID  83815-9496
Office:208-635-8306
Cell:  509 868 2279
Toll Free: 800-444-5923 X 1238
gary.mcintu...@esterline.com
 
 
www.esterline.com/interfacetechnologies
 
Technology, Innovation, Performance... 
 
 
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LECO Corporation Notice:This communication may contain confidential information 
intended for the named recipient(s) only. If you received this by mistake, 
please destroy it and notify us of the error. Thank you. 
-

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[PSES] Looking for Telecom Regulatory (pt. 68, ITU-T G.703) test lab

[Marko Radojicic]

Hi,

We are looking to add another lab to our AVL for performing telecom conformance 
testing, i.e., FCC Part 68, ITU-T G.703, etc. Primary interest is T1/E1 but 
would also like xDSL capabilities.

Labs close to the San Francisco Bay Area are preferred.

Thanks,
Marko

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Re: [PSES] Radiated Emissions Testing of Intentional Radiators - Practicalities?

[Marko Radojicic]

James,

You should double-check with the wifi chipset vendor that there is not another 
way of generating traffic. For example, Atheros has a special "ART" (Atheros 
Radio Test) mode that can be used for this purpose. I am not familiar with 
other vendors but have to assume that they have something similar.

...Marko





 From: Mike Violette 
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG 
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 8:26 AM
Subject: Re: [PSES] Radiated Emissions Testing of Intentional Radiators - 
Practicalities?
 

Attenuate the heck out of the "support"-generated signal and mount the antenna 
it in the null of the receive antenna. Even if its on the same channel, there 
won't be any additive energy.

It should also force the EUT to transmit at max power.



Mike Violette
Washington Laboratories & American Certification Body
mi...@wll.com
+1 240 401 1388



On Jan 10, 2012, at 11:13 AM, Pawson, James wrote:

 
>Hello list members,
> 
>We are wanting to test one of our products, which contains a WiFi interface, 
>in our anechoic chamber. To ensure the WiFi is active we would need to set up 
>antennae in the anechoic chamber itself - the irony of introducing radio into 
>a radio-quiet environment is not lost on me.
> 
>I'm concerned about separating out the emissions from the WiFi access point 
>and the emissions of the equipment under test. Does anyone have any practical 
>pointers / hints / tips / experience / pitfalls of doing this?
> 
>Thanks in advance
>James
> 
>James Pawson
>Leading Hardware Engineer - EMC
>EchoStar Europe
> 
> -
>
>
>This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
>discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to 
>
>All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web 
>at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html
>Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site 
>at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in 
>well-used formats), large files, etc.
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>Mike Cantwell 
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[PSES] Homologation Engineer Opportunity: Juniper Networks

[Marko Radojicic]

Hello All,

We have a great opportunity in our Homologation Engineering group at Juniper 
Networks.

http://www.juniper.net/us/en/company/careers/job-search/?920163

The position is located in Sunnyvale, CA.

It's an exciting time to be working for Juniper. If interested, it would be 
best to apply on-line *and* send your resume directly to my work e-mail address.

Thanks,
Marko
mradoji...@juniper.net


Full Position Description:

Obtain telecom, safety, and EMC type approvals (Homologation) for Juniper 
Networks products.  Responsibilities include: 

-   Work directly with various national agencies to obtain Homologation 
approvals 
-   Interface with third party vendors to complete the approval process 
-   Commission systems 
-   Manage and track Homologation schedules to support global sales 
efforts. 
-   Monitor and communicate changes in Homologation standards and processes 
-   Minimal travel required 

Abilities to manage compliance programs and implement NEBS test suites are 
desired. 
To be successful, the candidate must have the abilities to working 
independently, communicate effectively, and function well within a team 
environment. 

We offer very market competitive benefits i.e. Base, Bonus, Equity, 401k, ESPP, 
Medical, Dental, Vision, Life, FSA, PTO (15 days accrual 1st yr), 12 Paid 
Holidays, EAP, Credit Union, Child/Elderly Care, Tuition Reimbursement, and 
Green commute incentives. 

Juniper Networks is an Equal Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer. 


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RE: References for Three Phase Power Around the World

[Marko Radojicic]

Here are all the references that I use. A brief scan doesn’t show any 3
phase requirements however.

 

http://www.kropla.com/electric2.htm

http://www.dbicorporation.com/internat/internat.htm

http://ita.doc.gov/td/machinery/reports/current2002FINAL.pdf

 

…Marko

 

 



From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Momcilovic,
Nick (GE Healthcare)
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 10:43 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: References for Three Phase Power Around the World

 

Anyone have any good references for standard 3 phase power (voltage/frequency)
around the world.  I have seen several references (i.e., Interpower) that have
nice reference charts for single phase, but not 3 phase.  Right now I am
particularly interested in Korea.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Kind regards,

Nick Momcilovic 
GE Healthcare 
Standards Compliance/Certification Lead Engineer, MR 

T  262.521.6426 
D  *320-6426 
C  262.527.1965 
F  262.521.6549 
E  nick.momcilo...@ge.com 
www.gehealthcare.com 

3200 N Grandview Blvd, W-827 
Waukesha, WI  53188-1693 

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Recommendations requested: Water chiller companies in N. California

[Marko Radojicic]

Hello Group,

 

We are looking to buy a water-cooled environmental chamber which requires an
external water chiller for maximum performance. None of our potential vendors
offers a turn-key solution however.

 

Does anyone have first-hand recommendations with a chiller company that
services Silicon Valley? The following link lists 25 companies which is 22 too
many for me to follow up with. I’d really like to narrow the list down
first. We are looking for, what else, high quality and low cost.

 

http://www.thomasnet.com/northern-california/chillers-13936489-1.html

 

Thanks,
Marko

 

Marko Radojicic

Manager, Qualifications and Regulatory

StrataLight Communications, Inc. 

151 Albright Way

Los Gatos, CA 95032

mradoji...@stratalight.com

Desk: 408.385.3033

Cell: 650.575.3865

 



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RoHS Exemption 22 - Pb in RIG

[Marko Radojicic]

Hello Group,

 

We have heard that RoHS exemption 22, Pb in Rare earth Iron Garnet (RIG), is
being withdrawn however I cannot find any reference that supports it. Can
someone point me towards the official statement?

 

I have only been able to find the request:
http://rohs.exemptions.oeko.info/filead
in/user_upload/specific-questions/Exemption_22_Specific-questions.pdf

 

This subject has a tremendous amount of déjà-vu associated with it for me.
My apologies if this question has already been answered recently.

 

Thanks,
Marko

 

Marko Radojicic

Manager, Qualifications and Regulatory

StrataLight Communications, Inc. 

151 Albright Way

Los Gatos, CA 95032

mradoji...@stratalight.com

Desk: 408.385.3033

Cell: 650.575.3865

 



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ILEC RoHS-6 news from the NEBS conference?

[Marko Radojicic]

Hello group,

 

I could not attend the NEBS conference this year and was hoping to get some
input from list-members who did.

 

We have seen that AT&T has updated their TP76200 document to provide a RoHS-6
“Demonstration of Reliability” path which is very helpful. Did Verizon and
Qwest provide any update on this subject?

 

The Verizon NEBS web page did not have any updated information on this subject
earlier this week and it now appears down.

 

Thanks,
Marko

 

Marko Radojicic

Manager, Qualifications and Regulatory

StrataLight Communications, Inc. 

151 Albright Way

Los Gatos, CA 95032

mradoji...@stratalight.com

Desk: 408.385.3033

Cell: 650.575.3865

 



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RE: Microwave Oven Interference with 2.4Ghz Wireless LAN

[Marko Radojicic]

Brian,

Can you change the WLAN to operate in 802.11a mode which uses the 5GHz
band? 11b/g is in the 2.4GHz band.

The Access Points will most likely be able to support 11a but older
clients may not.

BTW - I've worked in the WLAN space for a couple of years and never
heard of such a large issue with microwave ovens. I wonder if you have
particularly bad models? (Although from Don's comments, this may not be
so uncommon.)

...Marko


From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of
don_borow...@selinc.com
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 1:27 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Cc: brian_ku...@lecotc.com
Subject: Re: Microwave Oven Interference with 2.4Ghz Wireless LAN

Except for rebuilding the break rooms with foil-lined dry wall, metal
flooring, screened windows, filtered power, waveguide-beyond-cutoff
ventilation grills, and RF tight doors, I don't know there is much for a
solution.

I was told that in one major Boeing plant, communications as 2.4 GHz is
all
but impossible -- there are microwave ovens scattered around the various
break rooms running off of all three phases of the electrical power
(120/208 volts "Y"); and due to variety of manufacturers, generating RF
during both polarities of each phase. In other words, continuous 2.4 GHz
RF.

Except for specialize industrial units, I don't think you will find
microwave ovens running at any other frequency.

Don Borowski
Schweitzer Engineering Labs
Pullman, WA, USA



 

 "Kunde, Brian"

 
To 
 Sent by:  "emc-pstc" 

 emc-p...@ieee.org
cc 
 

 
Subject 
 10/06/2008 01:02  Microwave Oven Interference with

 PM2.4Ghz Wireless LAN

 

 

 

 

 

 





I have just received and interesting call from our IT guys in our
production facility. They have installed a 2.4Ghz wireless LAN system in
our production and stock room areas, which is a huge area, and which
includes 13 Access Points and a couple dozen wireless devices such as
bar code readers, computers, and printers.

They discovered that they are having a major interference problem which
they have narrowed down to the Microwave Ovens in the two break areas.
Evidently, Microwave Ovens run at 2.45Ghz.

It would be very difficult to remove the ovens or to move the break
areas.

Have any of you experts have experience with this issue?  Any
suggestions?  Are new ovens better then older ones? Are the microwave
ovens that run at a different frequency? Would it help to try and shield
the ovens better?  Please help.

The Other Brian



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RE: Immunity Failures caused by System Burn-In

[Marko Radojicic]

Brian,

At one time there was a Bellcore (pre-Telcordia) standard for 48 hours
burn-in at something like 49C (RH uncontrolled). Nortel used to have
bays and bays of equipment undergoing burn-in due to this requirement.

I have been trying to find that standard for a while without any luck so
a lead would be helpful.

Jeff,

Other than that mythical standard (and perhaps faulty memory), there are
requirements/guidelines for high-temp and temp cycling in GR-468 but
that is only for optical modules.

I've never seen anything outside of the telecom space that *requires*
burn-in. This has always been a cost/benefit analysis of how much
testing will weed out DOA and in-warranty failures. Companies are
certainly free to set their own screens.

...Marko


From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Brian
O'Connell
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 2:49 PM
To: jeffcollin...@yahoo.com; emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Immunity Failures caused by System Burn-In

Yes, Bellcore/GR-Core/Verizon/SBC/NEBS all have various
reliability standards and requirements, depending on component
type and end-use installation.

luck,
Brian


From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf Of
jeff collins
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 2:32 PM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: Immunity Failures caused by System Burn-In

Group,

We have pinned down some immunity failures that are caused by our
system burn-in process, which is rather robust. Are there any
specific Industry standards for the Burn-in of IT or Telecom
electronic equipment?

Thanks in advance!

Jeff Collins
Regulatory Compliance & Reliability

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RE: Epoxy Bonding

[Marko Radojicic]

Ed,

I don't recall having seen any articles such as those that you are
looking for.

I would however recommend against going the epoxy route. Epoxy is
difficult to apply reliably unless you build some special applicator
jig. Different operators will apply different amounts as well as all the
variability in cleaning, uniformity, etc. You also better hope that a
little dab doesn't get in the connector pin field...

In addition, Epoxy has both a shelf time and a useable time which can
both be (often) violated in production. Even if it works from a 1st
article EMC measurement POV, the epoxy may fail in the field from user
handling/mechanical stress.

...Marko


From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of Scott B.
Lacey
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 12:13 PM
To: Price, Edward
Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: Re: Epoxy Bonding

Ed,

My first question is the degradation in 
shielding effectivenesss compared to what? If 
you are comparing the conductive epoxy to a 
screw-fastened connection you need to know 
the exact resistance of both shield paths. I 
think if you took a good four-wire resistance 
measurement box-to-box for a typical cable 
length you could get a good comparison of 
relative resistance. If one construction had 5% 
higher total resistance the degradation would 
be at least 5% at the lower frequencies.

I've had fairly good success using two 
multimeters if a 4-wire unit is not available. 
One provides the current source (on Lo 
Ohms) and the other measures millivolts. I 
use large alligator clips with the measurement 
clips inside of the ones for current.

Scott B. Lacey

On 16 Jun 2008 at 8:48, Price, Edward wrote:

> 
> I'm curious about the effect of using a gold (or silver) loaded 
> epoxy to bond a connector shell to a chassis box. If I measured 
> a bond resistance of about 1 Ohm from the connector shell to 
> the chassis, how could I estimate the degradation in shielding 
> effectiveness (frequency range of interest is about 10 kHz to 5 
> MHz)? 
> 
> Maybe this has been thoroughly covered in some past 
> Symposium papers. Can anyone give me a hint about where to 
> look? Of course, absolutely definitive answers, which allow me 
> to remain lazy, are also quite acceptable. 
> 
> Thanks in advance! 
> 
> 
> Ed Price 
> ed.pr...@cubic.com WB6WSN 
> NARTE Certified EMC Engineer & Technician 
> Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab 
> Cubic Defense Applications 
> San Diego, CAUSA 
> 858-505-2780 (Voice) 
> 858-505-1583 (FAX) 
> Military & Avionics EMC Is Our Specialty 
> 
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RE: Lightning coordination in K.20 (2000) versus GR-1089

[Marko Radojicic]

Joe,

I don't have much technical to add but was wondering why you are looking
into this standard. Have you customers that are asking for this requirement
to be met or is it simply a planning exercise? If it's customer-driven,
could you share what type of customer (ILEC, PTT, North America, European,
Asian, etc.)?

I haven't seen this standard being used at all but I'm presently focussed on
North America Service Provider requirements.

BTW I agree with the comments that GR-1089 compliant products have proven to
be extremely robust in the real-world. 

Cheers,
Marko


From: j...@aol.com [mailto:j...@aol.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2003 12:54 PM
To: t...@world.std.com; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Subject: Lightning coordination in K.20 (2000) versus GR-1089


Hello All:

I have been studying the new 2000 edition of K.20, "Resistibility of 
Telecommunication Equipment Installed in a Telecommunication Centre to 
Overvoltages and Overcurrents."  There appears to be an important change
>from 
the previous edition that will have a big impact on line interface design.
I 
would like to get some feedback on whether I am understanding this properly.

The change that concerns me is that for test 2.1.2 (4000 volt surge on 
twisted pair phone lines), K.20 now requires that the primary protector 
*must* operate.  If there is any kind of secondary overvoltage protection 
internal to the equipment under test (EUT), requirement 2.1.2 pretty much 
forces the EUT to contain series resistors in front of the internal 
protection.  Otherwise, the internal protection will prevent the external 
primary protector from operating.

The requirement for the primary protector to operate can be waived if the 
protection internal to the EUT itself meets the requirements for a primary 
protector.  However, this includes passing the test of 2.1.5 with vaguely 
specified surges of 1000 amps per wire and (presumably) open circuit
voltages 
of 4000 volts.

I note that in Telcordia GR-1089, the requirement to coordinate with the 
primary protector can be waived if the EUT can survive a 10x1000 uS, 100 amp

surge (clause 4.6.7.1 of the 2002 edition).  This requirement is fairly easy

to meet without using series resistors.

I find it interesting that series resistors have never been required for 
compliance with GR-1089, which itself is a pretty rigorous standard, nor
were 
they required for previous editions of K.20.  Now, it appears that 
manufacturers must decide at the outset whether their GR-1089 compliant 
products might ever go into a market where K.20 compliance is required.  If 
so, the resistors have to go in the design.  

The series resistors needed to pass the new K.20 requirement are not
ordinary 
resistors.  Typically, they are large, wirewound, surge tolerant, flameproof

resistors with steady state ratings of several watts.  Two of these per port

on a high density, multiport board is a big hit on board area.  Furthermore,

the added resistance is very detrimental to some types of DSL transmission.

In other words, this change in K.20 looks like it will have a big impact on 
line interface design.  My questions are as follows:

1) Is my understanding of the new coordination requirement in K.20 correct?

2) Is there a simpler way to comply with the requirement other than using 
series resistors?

3) Has there been any industry feedback to the ITU complaining about the 
coordination requirement as presently written?

4) Is there evidence that the 10x1000 uS, 100 amp waiver in GR-1089 is 
inadequate, justifying the much more stringent waiver requirement in K.20?


Any and all comments on the above would be most welcome.  I'm just trying to

make sense out of the new requirements.


Joe Randolph
Telecom Design Consultant
Randolph Telecom, Inc.
781-721-2848
j...@randolph-telecom.com
http://www.randolph-telecom.com


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RE: Short circuit tests in GR-1089

[Marko Radojicic]

Oops - wrong short circuit test - just realized. Sorry about that. My mind
is occupied by that one currently...

The on-board short-circuit test is to simulate a short occurring for
whatever reason (manufacturing defect, design defect, operational fault).
Since something bad happened, in my opinion the card is allowed to fail as
long as it fails safe. Opening a fuse is certainly an acceptable method to
remove the electrical safety hazard.

...Marko

-Original Message-
From: Marko Radojicic 
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 11:14 AM
To: 'j...@aol.com'; emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; t...@world.std.com
Subject: RE: Short circuit tests in GR-1089


Joe,

The short-circuit test is to simulate the most prevalent source of telecom
disruption: the back-hoe.

When a buried cable is inadvertently cut, the pairs could short together or
to the cable sheath. I really can't see how a test lab can misinterpret the
requirement (R4-6 for telecom ports). It clearly states that replacing fuses
is not an allowable situation.

"The EUT shall not be damaged, shall not require manual intervention (such
as to reset circuit breaker or replace fuses) to restore service, and shall
not become a fire, fragmentation, or electrical safety hazard as a result of
the application of a short circuit ..."

I'm quite sure that whomever you spoke with at the test lab is in error and
will probably reconsider their position if they read the standard a little
more carefully.

Cheers,
Marko

Marko Radojicic
Manager, Compliance and Reliability
Turnstone Networks, inc.
2220 Central Expressway
Santa Clara, CA
95050

mar...@turnstone.com
408/907-1739



-Original Message-
From: j...@aol.com [mailto:j...@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 10:25 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org; t...@world.std.com
Subject: Short circuit tests in GR-1089


Hello All:

I am hoping that some of you can help clarify the intent of requirement
R9-20 
in Telcordia GR-1089.  Taken literally, the requirement says that there
shall 
be no damage to equipment, conductors, or components when the DC power
supply 
is shorted at the load.  This could even be interpreted to preclude the use 
of a fuse that has to be replaced.

One test lab has told me that as long as no fire hazard is created from this

test, it is considered to have been passed.  Needless to say, this differs a

bit from the literal interpretation.

I guess it would help if I had a better feel for the overall goal of the 
short circuit testing.  Any insight on this would be most appreciated.


Joe Randolph
Telecom Design Consultant
Randolph Telecom, Inc.
781-721-2848
http://www.randolph-telecom.com

RE: EMC software for pcb layout

[Marko Radojicic]

Don,

I'd recommend that you use a rules-based checker rather than a simulator.
Cadence has a module, entitled "EMControl" which has a wide variety of rules
already built-in. Note that most of them will probably not be applicable to
your design and that you'll have to pick and choose judiciously. This tool
is a good choice if the board designers are already using Cadence but I
don't know if it will accept design files from other tools.

Also note that you can't get anything for free. There is a lot of input that
has to made for some of the rules to run.

Good luck,
Marko Radojicic
Hardware Design Assurance, Maple Optical Systems
ma...@mapleoptical.com
Phone: 408/545-1263
FAX: 408/434-9209


-Original Message-
From: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf
Of umbdenst...@sensormatic.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 8:20 AM
To: emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org
Cc: l...@sensormatic.com
Subject: EMC software for pcb layout



Hello friends,

Our PCB staff is looking for layout tools to enhance EMC compliance. Any
suggestions?

Best regards,

Don Umbdenstock
Sensormatic

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RE: Humidity verification standard

[Marko Radojicic]

Jeff,

You will probably want to examine your PCBs within a system since the
humidity performance may vary. In general, it gets better if the internal
power dissipation generates a higher temperature than the ambient.

You'll probably also want to look at transportation requirements
(unpowered). This is often worst case.

The standards that Richard points out are a great starting point. You may
also be interested in the American equivalent of ETSI 300 019: Telcordia
GR-63-CORE. There are some differences between the two documents. It's not
free but is available at: http://www.telcordia.com/

Some other advice: Find out if your customers have any preference so that
you don't have to repeat the tests.

Cheers,
Marko Radojicic
Hardware Design Assurance, Maple Optical Systems
ma...@mapleoptical.com
Phone: 408/545-1263
FAX: 408/434-9209


-Original Message-
From: owner-emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:owner-emc-p...@ieee.org]On Behalf
Of wo...@sensormatic.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 7:08 AM
To: emc-p...@ieee.org
Subject: RE: Humidity verification standard



Jeff, take a look at the IEC 68 series of environmental standards. ETSI 300
019 is a series of environmental standards for telecom equipment. Those may
give you some guidance. You can download those standards for free at the
ETSI web site. http://www.etsi.org/ <http://www.etsi.org/>

Richard Woods

--
From:  Bailey, Jeff [SMTP:jbai...@mysst.com]
Sent:  Tuesday, February 06, 2001 9:39 AM
To:  'emc-pstc'
Subject:  Humidity verification standard


Hello group,

I know this is a group focused on EMC/Safety issues, my primary function as
well as most of yours is to deal with
EMC/Safety issues but I think we all get other requests on the side so I'm
hoping you can help.

I have been asked to find a standard to verify environmental operating
conditions for 5 - 95% RH (non-condensing).
Can anyone guide me to a suitable standard for verifying such a range?  (the
products to be verified are printed
circuit boards)

Cheers!

Jeff Bailey
Compliance Engineering
SST - A Division of Woodhead Canada
Phone: (519) 725 5136 ext. 363
Fax: (519) 725 1515
mailto:jbai...@mysst.com
Web: www.sstech.on.ca

All comments contained in the message are my own and do not necessarily
express the views of SST/Woodhead Canada.



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RE: NEBS/telco LED alarm color

[Marko Radojicic]

Dwight,

Check out GR-2914 "Human Factors Requirements for Equipment to Improve
Network Reliability" section 4.2.4 "Color Requirements for Alarms".

For product intended for the EU, check out EN60950 section 1.7.8.2 "Colours"
and the referenced document IEC-73 "Basic and safety principles for
man-machine interface, marking and identification ..." section 4.2.1.1.

Marko Radojicic
Hardware Design Assurance, Maple Optical Systems
ma...@mapleoptical.com
Phone: 408/545-1263
FAX: 408/434-9209


-Original Message-
From: nebs-appro...@world.std.com [mailto:nebs-appro...@world.std.com]On
Behalf Of Dwight Hunnicutt
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 9:51 AM
To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org'
Cc: 't...@world.std.com'; 'n...@world.std.com'
Subject: NEBS/telco LED alarm color


All-
Our system test guys are concerned that we don't vary our T1 card indicator
LED color to distinguish between minor, major, and critical alarms. I recall
a Bellcore spec that says we have to do this. Can anyone help me track down
the spec reference for this? thanks
Dwight




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RE: NEBS: GR-63 Altitude Test Profile

[Marko Radojicic]

Jeffrey,

I agree with David's view. The Altitude and Temp/Humidity requirements
should be "AND-ed" requirements not "OR-ed" to reflect realistic deployment
scenarios. 

In reality, thermal analysis experts tell me that altitude does not really
affect the thermal performance significantly so you should be able to pass
at sea level or at 4000m equally easily (or not so easily!). The loss of
heat carrying capability due to the decreased air density is off-set, at
least somewhat, by the loss of pressure needed to move the air (recall the
fan speed curve).

Marko Radojicic
email: ma...@caspiannetworks.com
phone: 408/382-5206
fax: 408/382-5593



-Original Message-
From: David Spencer [mailto:dspen...@oresis.com]
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 9:42 AM
To: 'Collins, Jeffrey'; 'emc-p...@ieee.org '
Subject: RE: NEBS: GR-63 Altitude Test Profile



Hi Jeffrey,
Our friends at Telcordia do seem to enjoy listing requirements where we
would least expect them.  GR63 is no exception.  For altitude, the limits
called out in R4-8 [74] and O4-10[76] for Table 4-4 are the general
temperature/humidity limits for long and short term exposure.  The
application of those criteria can be found in Table 4.5 in the 182 hour
profile.

It is my belief that you test to at 4000m using the profile from table 4.5,
unless you wanted to make a profile of your own that covered the same ground
over a longer period of time, using Table 4-4 for the limits, rates of
change, and duration.  If the EUT cannot tolerate the resulting temperature
rise from the 4000m altitude, it will be necessary to retest at 1800 to meet
R4-8.  The failure is documented in the NEBS data submitted to the carrier
who decides if it is something he wants you to do something about before he
purchases you equipment.  I do not think it is necessary to test 1800m if
you have passed the table 4-5 profile at 4000m.

Don't forget: Objective requirements are not elective.  The tests must be
performed and the results documented.  It is by this means that decisions
are made about making the objective a mandatory requirement down the road.

Good Luck!
Dave Spencer Compliance Engineer
Oresis Communications, Inc.
14670 NW Greenbrier Parkway, Beaverton, OR  97006
* dspen...@oresis.com  * http://www.oresis.com
* (503) 466-6289  * (503) 533-8233  



-Original Message-
From: Collins, Jeffrey [mailto:jcoll...@ciena.com]
Sent: Monday, September 25, 2000 6:36 AM
To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org '
Subject: NEBS: GR-63 Altitude Test Profile



Group,

GR-63 sections 4.1.3  &  5.1 do not give a definitive testing profile for
Altitude testing. If you have completed this test what profile did you use?
Is there a customer specification from an RBOC or CLEC that you found to be
definitive. It appears that by only addressing these sections you could have
to retest down the road for a customer located in a high altitude
environment.  Which Telco has the most stringent internal specifications for
this test?

Points to be considered are:

*  Max Altitude
4000m

*  Temperature at max Altitude
Profile in Table 4-5

*  Relative Humidity
Profile in Table 4-5

*  Length of time at Max Altitude
182 hrs


Thanks in advance,


Jeffrey Collins 
MTS, Principal Compliance Engineer
Ciena Core Switching Division
jcoll...@ciena.com
www.ciena.com


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RE: Hygroscopic Dust Troubleshooting

[Marko Radojicic]

John,

Excessive voltage gradients are what causes failures in this test. I'd
suggest looking at each chip and finding the worst case voltage gradients
between pins. You can start with your supply voltage (battery or AC) to
ground separations. If you have a voltage gradient in excess of
11V/thousandth of an inch, this would be a good place to start looking for
issues.

The best, but most painful short-term solution, would be a design re-layout
of the offending separation. I've never used conformal coating due to other
issues (reliability, thermals) but that may be a way to go as well depending
on your product.

You may also want to go to a better air filter if you have the space and/or
thermal margin.

Good luck,
Marko Radojicic
email: ma...@caspiannetworks.com
phone: 408/382-5206
fax: tbd



-Original Message-
From: Kretsch, John [mailto:john_kret...@adc.com]
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 8:06 AM
To: 'n...@world.std.com'; 'EMC PSTC'; 'TREG Newsgroup'
Subject: Hygroscopic Dust Troubleshooting


I thought I would try to contact the collective on this one...

We have a shelf system that is failing GR-63 hygro dust with excessive bit
errors (unit did pass Gaseous contaminants no problem).  Air is filtered.
Anyone have experiences that they would like to share (non-proprietary of
course) about how to trouble-shoot and solve this problem?  This was the
only GR-63 test to have a failure.

Regards,
John K.

RE: Enclosure Material & Immunity

[Marko Radojicic]

Dick,

A metallurgist once told me that Steel becomes Stainless due to a very thin
oxide which forms on the exterior layer. This oxide is insulative hence RF
bonding to it is somewhat more tricky. 

Note that Zinc passivated chromate may also be insulative so the problem is
not much different.

All other EM properties will be so similar as to not really make any
practical difference.

Marko Radojicic
email: ma...@caspiannetworks.com
phone: 408/382-5206
fax: tbd



-Original Message-
From: Dick Grobner [mailto:dick.grob...@medgraph.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2000 7:22 AM
To: IEEE EMC-PSTC E-Mail Forum (E-mail)
Subject: Enclosure Material & Immunity



Good Day Forum Members
I have just been posed with a question here at work and I have no immediate
answer. Someone asked if an electronic enclosure constructed of stainless
steel is in any way more superior (or equivalent too) against EMI/RFI (ESD,
radiated RF, Magnetic, etc.) over one constructed of steel (zinc plated). In
the past all of our enclosure have been constructed of steel or aluminum and
plated accordingly. I do not have much in the line of resources on this
subject so any input from the forum would be appreciated!! Provide me with
your experiences, good or bad!

Thanks (in advance)  

Dick Grobner
Compliance Engineering
Medical Graphics Corporation
350 Oak Grove Parkway
St Paul, MN 55127
651-766-3395
651-766-3389 (fax)
dick.grob...@medgraph.com


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