Re: [PSES] Hazard warning labels on panel doors where COTS UPS installed?

[Douglas Nix]

Hi John,

Sure - I can see that for equipment approved to 508A. But this equipment is 
designed and built to NFPA 79 and EN 60204-1. In this particular case I’m only 
involved in assisting the client in CE Marking the machines, so that’s the 
focus.

Doug Nix

“All code is guilty until proven innocent” - Software Testing Fundamentals

https://softwaretestingfundamentals.com



> On Aug 4, 2023, at 10:20, John Cochran  wrote:
> 
> UL requires us to apply a 'UPS Voltage Present When Off' label for UL 508A 
> mobile carts we build with a UPS installed.  Inspector considers it a safety 
> violation if the label is not on the access panel or door.
> 
> John
> 
> John Cochran
> Compliance Manager
> jcoch...@strongarm.com <mailto:jcoch...@strongarm.com>
> 
>  <https://strongarm.com/>
> Industrial workstations and mountings for the frontline workforce.
> 
> Strongarm Designs, Inc.
> 425 Caredean Drive | Horsham, PA 19044
> (800) 778-7901  • strongarm.com <https://strongarm.com/>
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Ralph McDiarmid mailto:rmm.priv...@gmail.com>> 
> Sent: Thursday, August 3, 2023 13:26
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <mailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
> Subject: Re: [PSES] Hazard warning labels on panel doors where COTS UPS 
> installed?
> 
> CAUTION: This message originated from outside Strongarm. Do not open 
> attachments or click on links if you do not recognize the sender.
> 
> 
> Doug, a quick search through NFPA70 (USA national electrical code) says in 
> article 645 Information Technology Equipment:
> 
> 645.16 Marking. Each unit of an information technology system supplied by a 
> branch circuit shall be provided with a  manufacturer's nameplate, which 
> shall also include the input power requirements for voltage, frequency, and 
> maximum rated load in amperes.
> 
> I endorse John Woodgate's answer;  if in doubt, label it.
> 
> I'm delighted to see a few familiar names after my long hiatus from this
> forum.   I'm now semi-retired from the industry.
> 
> Ralph
> 
> From: Doug Nix 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2023 2:24 PM
> To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
> Subject: [PSES] Hazard warning labels on panel doors where COTS UPS installed?
> 
> Colleagues,
> 
> I have a client who has installed a COTS UPS in an industrial control panel.
> The UPS is being used to keep the HMI alive in a power outage or if the 
> disconnecting device is switched off.
> 
> I have scoured the resources that I have, and I can find nothing that 
> requires a label on the outside of the panel to indicate that there is a UPS 
> inside. EN 60204-1:2018 does not address this. I have a copy of EN IEC 
> 62040-1, and it does not require a hazard warning label anywhere.
> 
> Any guidance you might offer is appreciated.
> 
> Doug Nix
> mailto:d...@ieee.org
> +1 (519) 729-5704
> 
> 
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc 
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> -
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Re: [PSES] Hazard warning labels on panel doors where COTS UPS installed?

[John Cochran]

UL requires us to apply a 'UPS Voltage Present When Off' label for UL 508A mobile carts we build with a UPS installed.  Inspector considers it a safety violation if the label is not on the access panel or door.

John



   


  
  
John Cochran
Compliance Manager
jcoch...@strongarm.com

Industrial workstations and mountings for the frontline workforce.
Strongarm Designs, Inc.
425 Caredean Drive | Horsham, PA 19044
(800) 778-7901 • strongarm.com

  
  


  


-Original Message-
From: Ralph McDiarmid  
Sent: Thursday, August 3, 2023 13:26
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [PSES] Hazard warning labels on panel doors where COTS UPS installed?

CAUTION: This message originated from outside Strongarm. Do not open attachments or click on links if you do not recognize the sender.


Doug, a quick search through NFPA70 (USA national electrical code) says in article 645 Information Technology Equipment:

645.16 Marking. Each unit of an information technology system supplied by a branch circuit shall be provided with a  manufacturer's nameplate, which shall also include the input power requirements for voltage, frequency, and maximum rated load in amperes.

I endorse John Woodgate's answer;  if in doubt, label it.

I'm delighted to see a few familiar names after my long hiatus from this
forum.   I'm now semi-retired from the industry.

Ralph

From: Doug Nix 
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2023 2:24 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Hazard warning labels on panel doors where COTS UPS installed?

Colleagues,

I have a client who has installed a COTS UPS in an industrial control panel.
The UPS is being used to keep the HMI alive in a power outage or if the disconnecting device is switched off.

I have scoured the resources that I have, and I can find nothing that requires a label on the outside of the panel to indicate that there is a UPS inside. EN 60204-1:2018 does not address this. I have a copy of EN IEC 62040-1, and it does not require a hazard warning label anywhere.

Any guidance you might offer is appreciated.

Doug Nix
mailto:d...@ieee.org
+1 (519) 729-5704


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Re: [PSES] Hazard warning labels on panel doors where COTS UPS installed?

[Ralph McDiarmid]

Doug, a quick search through NFPA70 (USA national electrical code) says in
article 645 Information Technology Equipment:

645.16 Marking. Each unit of an information technology system supplied by a
branch circuit shall be provided with a
 manufacturer's nameplate, which shall also include the input power
requirements for voltage, frequency, and maximum 
rated load in amperes.

I endorse John Woodgate's answer;  if in doubt, label it.   

I'm delighted to see a few familiar names after my long hiatus from this
forum.   I'm now semi-retired from the industry.

Ralph

From: Doug Nix  
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2023 2:24 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Hazard warning labels on panel doors where COTS UPS
installed?

Colleagues,

I have a client who has installed a COTS UPS in an industrial control panel.
The UPS is being used to keep the HMI alive in a power outage or if the
disconnecting device is switched off.

I have scoured the resources that I have, and I can find nothing that
requires a label on the outside of the panel to indicate that there is a UPS
inside. EN 60204-1:2018 does not address this. I have a copy of EN IEC
62040-1, and it does not require a hazard warning label anywhere.

Any guidance you might offer is appreciated.

Doug Nix
mailto:d...@ieee.org
+1 (519) 729-5704


This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
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Re: [PSES] Hazard warning labels on panel doors where COTS UPS installed?

[Charlie Blackham]

Doug

In the past I’ve worked on control cabinets used in Semi-Conductor plant 
equipment and this is an extract from an earlier version of SEMI S2 I have:

13.5 Uninterruptable Power Supplies (UPSs) — This section applies to UPSs with 
outputs greater than: 30 volts rms, 42.4 volts peak; 60 volts DC; or 240 
volt-amps.
13.5.1 Whenever a UPS is provided with the equipment, its location and wiring 
should be clearly described within the installation and maintenance manual.
13.5.2 Power from the UPS should be interrupted when any of the following 
events occur:
 the emergency off actuator (button) is pushed; or
 the main equipment disconnect is opened; or
 the main circuit breaker is opened.
EXCEPTION: Upon EMO activation, the UPS may supply power to the EMO circuit, 
safety related devices, and data/alarm logging computer systems as described in 
the exception clauses of § 12.2.
13.5.3 The UPS may be physically located within the footprint of the equipment 
provided that the UPS is within its own enclosure and is clearly identified.
13.5.4 The UPS should be certified by an accredited testing laboratory and be 
suitable for its intended environment (e.g., damp location, exposure to 
corrosives).
13.5.5 The UPS wiring should be identified as ‘UPS Supply Output’ or equivalent 
at each termination point where the UPS wiring can be disconnected.

We never put warning signs for UPS on the outside of the cabinet, but there 
were high voltage warning signs and detailed explanation within the manual.

Best regards
Charlie

Charlie Blackham
Sulis Consultants Ltd
Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317
Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/
Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247

From: Doug Nix 
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2023 10:24 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Hazard warning labels on panel doors where COTS UPS installed?

Colleagues,

I have a client who has installed a COTS UPS in an industrial control panel. 
The UPS is being used to keep the HMI alive in a power outage or if the 
disconnecting device is switched off.

I have scoured the resources that I have, and I can find nothing that requires 
a label on the outside of the panel to indicate that there is a UPS inside. EN 
60204-1:2018 does not address this. I have a copy of EN IEC 62040-1, and it 
does not require a hazard warning label anywhere.

Any guidance you might offer is appreciated.

Doug Nix
d...@ieee.org<mailto:d...@ieee.org>
+1 (519) 729-5704



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Re: [PSES] Hazard warning labels on panel doors where COTS UPS installed?

[Stultz, Mark]

Wouldn't this fall under the requirement from 60204-1 clause 5.3.5 for Excepted 
Circuits?
"Permanent warning label(s) shall be appropriately placed in proximity to the 
operating means of the supply disconnecting device to draw attention to the 
hazard"

Best regards,

Mark Stultz | CMSE(r) | Sealed Air | AUTOBAG(r) brand Equipment | Streetsboro, 
OH | 330-342-2402

From: Doug Nix 
Sent: Wednesday, August 2, 2023 5:24 PM
To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [PSES] Hazard warning labels on panel doors where COTS UPS installed?


 CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click 
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content 
is safe.

Colleagues,

I have a client who has installed a COTS UPS in an industrial control panel. 
The UPS is being used to keep the HMI alive in a power outage or if the 
disconnecting device is switched off.

I have scoured the resources that I have, and I can find nothing that requires 
a label on the outside of the panel to indicate that there is a UPS inside. EN 
60204-1:2018 does not address this. I have a copy of EN IEC 62040-1, and it 
does not require a hazard warning label anywhere.

Any guidance you might offer is appreciated.

Doug Nix
d...@ieee.org<mailto:d...@ieee.org>
+1 (519) 729-5704



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Re: [PSES] Hazard warning labels on panel doors where COTS UPS installed?

[John Woodgate]

You could decide not to search, just put a label on anyway. I looked at 
the Preview of IEC 60947-1, but did not find anything. There is a 7th 
edition in preparation.


On 2023-08-02 22:24, Doug Nix wrote:

Colleagues,

I have a client who has installed a COTS UPS in an industrial control 
panel. The UPS is being used to keep the HMI alive in a power outage 
or if the disconnecting device is switched off.


I have scoured the resources that I have, and I can find nothing that 
requires a label on the outside of the panel to indicate that there is 
a UPS inside. EN 60204-1:2018 does not address this. I have a copy of 
EN IEC 62040-1, and it does not require a hazard warning label anywhere.


Any guidance you might offer is appreciated.

Doug Nix
d...@ieee.org
+1 (519) 729-5704



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Re: [PSES] Hazard warning labels on panel doors where COTS UPS installed?

[James Asbury]

Hello,

Couple of thoughts.  We might consider the UPS to be a second power source
for the machine, which may warrant signage (multiple power sources).  Or,
similar to condensation heaters for machine enclosures that are powered
from the disconnect mains, in the past we’ve added signage to indicate
there is live power in the machine even when the disconnect is turned off.
I don’t have chapter and verse handy, but NFPA79 and UL508A may have
guidance.  To be transparent, my focus is more North American and I do not
have very much experience with EN standards.



This is my first post.  You have all taught me a great deal through this
forum, and this is my small attempt to help pay it back.  Hope this is
useful.



Thanks,

James



*James Asbury*

Electrical Engineering Manager

Innovation and Development

Sealed Air
j.asb...@ieee.org


On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 5:24 PM Doug Nix  wrote:

> Colleagues,
>
> I have a client who has installed a COTS UPS in an industrial control
> panel. The UPS is being used to keep the HMI alive in a power outage or if
> the disconnecting device is switched off.
>
> I have scoured the resources that I have, and I can find nothing that
> requires a label on the outside of the panel to indicate that there is a
> UPS inside. EN 60204-1:2018 does not address this. I have a copy of EN IEC
> 62040-1, and it does not require a hazard warning label anywhere.
>
> Any guidance you might offer is appreciated.
>
> Doug Nix
> d...@ieee.org
> +1 (519) 729-5704
>
> --
>
> This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc
> discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All
> emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at:
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> unsubscribe) 
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>
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> Rick Linford at: linf...@ieee.org
>
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> --
>
> To unsubscribe from the EMC-PSTC list, click the following link:
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[PSES] Hazard warning labels on panel doors where COTS UPS installed?

[Doug Nix]

Colleagues,

I have a client who has installed a COTS UPS in an industrial control panel. 
The UPS is being used to keep the HMI alive in a power outage or if the 
disconnecting device is switched off.

I have scoured the resources that I have, and I can find nothing that requires 
a label on the outside of the panel to indicate that there is a UPS inside. EN 
60204-1:2018 does not address this. I have a copy of EN IEC 62040-1, and it 
does not require a hazard warning label anywhere.

Any guidance you might offer is appreciated.

Doug Nix
d...@ieee.org
+1 (519) 729-5704


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