Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer
Great advice Cortland! I also ran into an interesting article on LinkedIn regarding how best to deal with your manager when it comes to these issues, without getting fired. Interesting reading… http://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20131119031719-7668018-speaking-up-without-getting-fired?trk=mta-lnk ___ Ken Wyatt Wyatt Technical Services LLC k...@emc-seminars.com www.emc-seminars.com Phone: (719) 310-5418 On Nov 19, 2013, at 8:49 AM, CR k...@earthlink.net wrote: I suspect many of us came into EMC unconventionally. I certainly did. I walked into a job in EMC at Wang Labs after retiring from an Army career that had me in the Signal Corps and Transportation Corps in communications and repairing Avionics (also supervising and instructing). I had been playing with electronics since age 12, when I used a TV focus coil to build in my bedroom what some might call a rail-gun. On retiring from the Army I was a single parent with a pension that only paid the rent. I wanted work as an instructor, but without a degree, the only people who made an an offer paid less than I'd gotten on Active Duty. Luckily, my my brother passed a copy of my resume' to his neighbor, who worked for a large computer firm now defunct, Wang Labs. I was able to show them I knew how to use the equipment and already had a high enogh security clearance for Tempest work, so I was in. Having come up through the lab, I look for not merely theory, but a feel for systems and problems. A couple of my later employers had me interviewing job applicants and I got an (undeserved, IMO) reputation for being a difficult interviewer, handing candidates a ferrite bead, for example, and asking, What is this? What does it do? and How? or something like a PRD-219 and asking, What is this and how is it used? (I own a couple.) Most of the scrUwups I've seen were the result of engineers or managers (not just in EMC): 1) Ignoring (or ignorance of) basic principles of EMC design; for example, as Mother used to say (not really) Cortland! Put that electron back before he yells for his Dad! 2) Neglecting to get all parties to producing a product to ATTEND design reviews and point out what they can and can't do given the design and desired results. 3) Ignoring (again BASIC) principles of shielding and grounding even in testing (all too common). 4) Not talking directly to engineers and techs on projects outside their own areas of expertise. Everything matters. Even firmware. 5) Not looking at systems a whole; test setups, platform or user configurations, regulations and standard – everything that concerns emissions and susceptibility in use. It took time and effort (and one actual RFI complaint) to convince a manufacturer of telco equipment that if it was on or near a residential property it had to meet FCC Class B. It has been the rare employer whose management was on board with EMC problem prevention; perhaps surprisingly, one of my better ones was Tandy, whose first venture into the IBM compatible computer market in the late 1980's was not only yanked off the market by the FCC, but incurred a sizable fine for not having been submitted for testing (it failed). That'll motivate you! It did get a me a job there. IMO, an organization needs both educated engineers and those who can hold people to basic principles; if you do all the simple things right, you will usually have done the complex ones too. WRT the EMC Cop role, I prefer the missionary position (heh). Really, convert them, don't yell at them. An Outside Expert many of us, at least in the US, know, was called in to look at a PWB design and his first words to the CAD layout guy were Your board is a piece of sh*t! How not to influence people, etc. They did listen to my simpler and less confrontational advice thereafter. I'd have LOVED to get a job applicant who could show what's wrong, what's right, and explain why in plain English; colleagues not in EMC will often want simple rules: X mils of clearance and Y mils of prepreg; Z mils of copper between bypass caps and devices etc. Sometimes it's worthwhile to make design rules simple just to get them followed... but one must know what the rules do, and why, and be able to teach those who must follow them . I was offered a job at DSC Communications (later Alcatel USA) as a test engineer, and when I arrived, they gave me the choice of that or design. That was no choice at all; I chose design for, as I answered when asked why, test engineers have to fix the same problems over and over, but design engineers can stop them from happening, By dint of constant, friendly and informal oversight (I asked for and got read-only access to the schematics and layout of every project from my own terminal) and collaboration with designers in every group, I did that. I even got the mechanical engineers on board. (That took a
Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer
Hi Macy (and others trying to read this article), Sorry, I guess that link was an internal one to LinkedIn (you may have had to be signed in to read?). Try this: Connect to the author’s LinkedIn profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/jtodonnell Then click on “Follow”. Her article will be right at the top of her full profile. Note: you may have to already have a profile on LinkedIn before you can follow/read. I tried clicking on her other web sites, but couldn’t find the same article… Sorry about that, Ken ___ Ken Wyatt Wyatt Technical Services LLC k...@emc-seminars.com www.emc-seminars.com Phone: (719) 310-5418 On Nov 20, 2013, at 8:34 AM, Macy m...@basicisp.net wrote: I also ran into an interesting article on LinkedIn ... high praise indeed! ;) Thanks for posting the URL, but for me LinkedIn kept a blank screen for over four minutes while monopolizing my system, so I had to give up. Your article is text, right? ;) --- k...@emc-seminars.com wrote: From: Ken Wyatt k...@emc-seminars.com To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2013 07:40:37 -0700 Great advice Cortland! I also ran into an interesting article on LinkedIn regarding how best to deal with your manager when it comes to these issues, without getting fired. Interesting reading… http://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20131119031719-7668018-speaking-up-without-getting-fired?trk=mta-lnk - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer
I suspect many of us came into EMC unconventionally. I certainly did. I walked into a job in EMC at Wang Labs after retiring from an Army career that had me in the Signal Corps and Transportation Corps in communications and repairing Avionics (also supervising and instructing). I had been playing with electronics since age 12, when I used a TV focus coil to build in my bedroom what some might call a rail-gun. On retiring from the Army I was a single parent with a pension that only paid the rent. I wanted work as an instructor, but without a degree, the only people who made an an offer paid less than I'd gotten on Active Duty. Luckily, my my brother passed a copy of my resume' to his neighbor, who worked for a large computer firm now defunct, Wang Labs. I was able to show them I knew how to use the equipment and already had a high enogh security clearance for Tempest work, so I was in. Having come up through the lab, I look for not merely theory, but a feel for systems and problems. A couple of my later employers had me interviewing job applicants and I got an (undeserved, IMO) reputation for being a difficult interviewer, handing candidates a ferrite bead, for example, and asking, What is this? What does it do? and How? or something like aPRD-219 http://www.webalice.it/bruno.santalucia/UNK.JPG and asking, What is this and how is it used? (I own a couple.) Most of the scrUwups I've seen were the result of engineers or managers (not just in EMC): 1) Ignoring (or ignorance of) basic principles of EMC design; for example, as Mother used to say (not really) Cortland! Put that electron back before he yells for his Dad! 2) Neglecting to get all parties to producing a product to ATTEND design reviews and point out what they can and can't do given the design and desired results. 3) Ignoring (again BASIC) principles of shielding and grounding even in testing (all too common). 4) Not talking directly to engineers and techs on projects outside their own areas of expertise. Everything matters. Even firmware. 5) Not looking at systems a whole; test setups, platform or user configurations, regulations and standard -- everything that concerns emissions and susceptibility in use. It took time and effort (and one actual RFI complaint) to convince a manufacturer of telco equipment that if it was on or near a residential property it had to meet FCC Class B. It has been the rare employer whose management was on board with EMC problem *prevention*; perhaps surprisingly, one of my better ones was Tandy, whose first venture into the IBM compatible computer market in the late 1980's was not only yanked off the market by the FCC, but incurred a sizable fine for not having been submitted for testing (it failed). That'll motivate you! It did get a me a job there. IMO, an organization needs both educated engineers and those who can hold people to basic principles; if you do all the simple things right, you will usually have done the complex ones too. WRT the EMC Cop role, I prefer the missionary position (heh). Really, convert them, don't yell at them. An Outside Expert many of us, at least in the US, know, was called in to look at a PWB design and his first words to the CAD layout guy were Your board is a piece of sh*t! How not to influence people, etc. They did listen to my simpler and less confrontational advice thereafter. I'd have LOVED to get a job applicant who could show what's wrong, what's right, and explain why in plain English; colleagues not in EMC will often want simple rules: X mils of clearance and Y mils of prepreg; Z mils of copper between bypass caps and devices etc. Sometimes it's worthwhile to make design rules simple just to get them followed... but one must know what the rules do, and why, and be able to teach those who must follow them . I was offered a job at DSC Communications (later Alcatel USA) as a test engineer, and when I arrived, they gave me the choice of that or design. That was no choice at all; I chose design for, as I answered when asked why, test engineers have to fix the same problems over and over, but design engineers can stop them from happening, By dint of constant, friendly and informal oversight (I asked for and got read-only access to the schematics and layout of every project from my own terminal) and collaboration with designers in every group, I did that. I even got the mechanical engineers on board. (That took a lunch and learn with a modified stock-pot shielded enclosure and a hand held radio receiver. ) I didn't realize then, but I would learn, that I needed to keep an eye on what the firmware and software did, too. What does the EMC engineer need to be? Theoretician, practical engineer, teacher, tech, missionary and salesman; electronics, metals, coatings, insulators and chemistry; tooling, manufacturing and maintenance, all of that too, essentially a systems engineer with a finger in every
[PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer
I am retiring at the end of the year, and my company is looking for an EMC Compliance Engineer to replace me. Location is Pullman, Washington, USA. Here is a link to the job opening: https://www.recruitingcenter.net/Clients/SELInc/PublicJobs/controller.cfm?jbaction=JobProfilejob_id=17518 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer
Hello EMC Experts, Now that Don listed the job announcement, it got me thinking to ask you guys who have been in this industry for a long time. EMC Engineering is not something that is being taught in colleges; at least not at the University I just graduated from. After a few months working as an EMC/EMI Testing Intern, I became fascinated by this engineering field, I feel like I want to do this my entire life. However, companies do not want to hire entry level engineers as EMC Engineers, they want several years of experience. As experts, would you advise an entry level engineer like me to pursue this career right away, or first find another Electrical Engineering position first to gain an experience in the industry? Your responses will be highly appreciated. Regards, Egide From: don_borow...@selinc.com [mailto:don_borow...@selinc.com] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 12:19 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer I am retiring at the end of the year, and my company is looking for an EMC Compliance Engineer to replace me. Location is Pullman, Washington, USA. Here is a link to the job opening: https://www.recruitingcenter.net/Clients/SELInc/PublicJobs/controller.cfm?jbaction=JobProfilejob_id=17518 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.orgmailto:emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.netmailto:emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.orgmailto:mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.orgmailto:j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.commailto:dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer
There are some people that started out at one of the test labs or a CAB then went into industry, but have yet to personally meet an industry compliance person that had not started in another engineering job. Many companies consider compliance an 'ancillary' position designated for one of the designers; and some large corporations have a separate department full of compliance people. Most of my colleagues seem to have reached a compliance position through the back door, and very few do just EMC or just safety. If I were to retire (hah!) tomorrow, the person that I recommend to fill my position would have done significant time as an engineer and tester that had to fix a broken design. And this person must also understood basics of mechanics and chemistry, as well as a being a bit of a code monkey. Brian From: Murisa, Egide [mailto:egide.mur...@molex.com] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 11:32 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer Hello EMC Experts, Now that Don listed the job announcement, it got me thinking to ask you guys who have been in this industry for a long time. EMC Engineering is not something that is being taught in colleges; at least not at the University I just graduated from. After a few months working as an EMC/EMI Testing Intern, I became fascinated by this engineering field, I feel like I want to do this my entire life. However, companies do not want to hire entry level engineers as EMC Engineers, they want several years of experience. As experts, would you advise an entry level engineer like me to pursue this career right away, or first find another Electrical Engineering position first to gain an experience in the industry? Your responses will be highly appreciated. Regards, Egide - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer
Just as a data point, I started out doing exactly what you are doing, after doing some other work in the same company. Basically a program had a need for a warm body, and I qualified for that. Like you, I liked it and stayed with it, over thirty years now. I was able to stay with the same company until I had enough time in to be picked up as an experienced engineer when the original position folded. Ken Javor Phone: (256) 650-5261 From: Murisa, Egide egide.mur...@molex.com Reply-To: Murisa, Egide egide.mur...@molex.com Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 19:32:25 + To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Conversation: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer Subject: Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer Hello EMC Experts, Now that Don listed the job announcement, it got me thinking to ask you guys who have been in this industry for a long time. EMC Engineering is not something that is being taught in colleges; at least not at the University I just graduated from. After a few months working as an EMC/EMI Testing Intern, I became fascinated by this engineering field, I feel like I want to do this my entire life. However, companies do not want to hire entry level engineers as EMC Engineers, they want several years of experience. As experts, would you advise an entry level engineer like me to pursue this career right away, or first find another Electrical Engineering position first to gain an experience in the industry? Your responses will be highly appreciated. Regards, Egide From: don_borow...@selinc.com [mailto:don_borow...@selinc.com] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 12:19 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer I am retiring at the end of the year, and my company is looking for an EMC Compliance Engineer to replace me. Location is Pullman, Washington, USA. Here is a link to the job opening: https://www.recruitingcenter.net/Clients/SELInc/PublicJobs/controller.cfm?jb action=JobProfilejob_id=17518 https://www.recruitingcenter.net/Clients/SELInc/PublicJobs/controller.cfm?j baction=JobProfileamp;job_id=17518 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer
Egide, As you mention, EMC is not something you find on every curriculum. I am aware of the University of Science and Technology at Rolla Missouri offering courses in EMC, they have a very good lab and may indeed offer degree work. I noticed your LinkedIn profile shows you as being about 5 hours drive from Rolla. Possibly they have online courses you can pursue. Experience is the key and this takes time. I personally got into EMC work in order to provide a new function at my company. With no prior experience for this role I took advantage of every opportunity to learn. This emc-pstc discussion forum was a big help for me and I have found over many years that all members of the forum are very helpful, especially with new talent who may have a tendency to ask the level 101 types of questions. Getting involved with your local IEEE EMC society chapter, the annual IEEE symposium, and visiting your local test lab instead of using them as a turnkey lab is great for learning as well. You will find that most EMC experts love to share their success stories as well as their failures. This can be an eclectic bunch of people and I like it. thanks, –doug Douglas E Powell http://www.linkedin.com/in/dougp01 From: Murisa, Egide Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 12:32 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer Hello EMC Experts, Now that Don listed the job announcement, it got me thinking to ask you guys who have been in this industry for a long time. EMC Engineering is not something that is being taught in colleges; at least not at the University I just graduated from. After a few months working as an EMC/EMI Testing Intern, I became fascinated by this engineering field, I feel like I want to do this my entire life. However, companies do not want to hire entry level engineers as EMC Engineers, they want several years of experience. As experts, would you advise an entry level engineer like me to pursue this career right away, or first find another Electrical Engineering position first to gain an experience in the industry? Your responses will be highly appreciated. Regards, Egide From: don_borow...@selinc.com [mailto:don_borow...@selinc.com] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 12:19 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer I am retiring at the end of the year, and my company is looking for an EMC Compliance Engineer to replace me. Location is Pullman, Washington, USA. Here is a link to the job opening: https://www.recruitingcenter.net/Clients/SELInc/PublicJobs/controller.cfm?jbaction=JobProfilejob_id=17518 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats
Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer
Egide- Aside from getting a degree from one of the few colleges that offers EMC as a specialty, it seems to me there are two other ways to get into the field. The first is my path. Start off in RF circuit design, with a good helping of amateur radio on the side, and then switch into doing EMC work. The other possibility is to start as an EMC technician, staying there just long enough to learn and gain experience, and then moving into EMC engineering. Learn more than the job requires. Depending on opportunities, and how enlightened your employer is, the move into EMC engineering may mean looking for a job at a different company. The warning for this path is to move quickly, or you will become labeled as an EMC technician, not an EMC engineer in training. Cheers, Don From: Murisa, Egide egide.mur...@molex.com To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 11/18/2013 11:50 AM Subject:Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer Hello EMC Experts, Now that Don listed the job announcement, it got me thinking to ask you guys who have been in this industry for a long time. EMC Engineering is not something that is being taught in colleges; at least not at the University I just graduated from. After a few months working as an EMC/EMI Testing Intern, I became fascinated by this engineering field, I feel like I want to do this my entire life. However, companies do not want to hire entry level engineers as EMC Engineers, they want several years of experience. As experts, would you advise an entry level engineer like me to pursue this career right away, or first find another Electrical Engineering position first to gain an experience in the industry? Your responses will be highly appreciated. Regards, Egide From: don_borow...@selinc.com [mailto:don_borow...@selinc.com] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 12:19 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer I am retiring at the end of the year, and my company is looking for an EMC Compliance Engineer to replace me. Location is Pullman, Washington, USA. Here is a link to the job opening: https://www.recruitingcenter.net/Clients/SELInc/PublicJobs/controller.cfm?jbaction=JobProfilejob_id=17518 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer
I tend to agree with Brian's statements. I would also add that even if experience is gained in another field, it is probably not enough in the EMC field to meet the they want several years of experience criteria. After all, it is not just engineering experience they are looking for, it is specific EMC/EMI experience. If you do want to make this field your career and are still working as an intern, try getting the company to 'promote' you to a test engineer. That is one obvious way you can get more experience. While I am not a great one for the iNARTE thing (been there, done that, dropped them all), it can help entry level engineers test themselves to see how much they do or do not know and where they need to improve; and it seems to influence some labs/companies in their hiring process. In the end however, in this field, it is experience that counts and well, you do not get experience except by experiencing. :) Dennis Ward Senior Certification Engineer PCTEST This communication and its attachments contain information from PCTEST Engineering Laboratory, Inc., and is intended for the exclusive use of the recipient (s) named above. It may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. Any unauthorized use that may compromise that confidentiality via distribution or disclosure is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately if you receive this communication in error, and delete it from your computer system. Usage of PCTEST email addresses for non-business related activities is strictly prohibited. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. Thank you. -Original Message- From: Brian Oconnell [mailto:oconne...@tamuracorp.com] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 12:20 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer There are some people that started out at one of the test labs or a CAB then went into industry, but have yet to personally meet an industry compliance person that had not started in another engineering job. Many companies consider compliance an 'ancillary' position designated for one of the designers; and some large corporations have a separate department full of compliance people. Most of my colleagues seem to have reached a compliance position through the back door, and very few do just EMC or just safety. If I were to retire (hah!) tomorrow, the person that I recommend to fill my position would have done significant time as an engineer and tester that had to fix a broken design. And this person must also understood basics of mechanics and chemistry, as well as a being a bit of a code monkey. Brian From: Murisa, Egide [mailto:egide.mur...@molex.com] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 11:32 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer Hello EMC Experts, Now that Don listed the job announcement, it got me thinking to ask you guys who have been in this industry for a long time. EMC Engineering is not something that is being taught in colleges; at least not at the University I just graduated from. After a few months working as an EMC/EMI Testing Intern, I became fascinated by this engineering field, I feel like I want to do this my entire life. However, companies do not want to hire entry level engineers as EMC Engineers, they want several years of experience. As experts, would you advise an entry level engineer like me to pursue this career right away, or first find another Electrical Engineering position first to gain an experience in the industry? Your responses will be highly appreciated. Regards, Egide - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product
Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer
EMC Engineering is not something that is being taught in colleges Electromagnetic Compatibility Laboratory The Missouri ST Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC) Laboratory supports EMC research and education projects with a goal of developing the knowledge base, tools and people necessary to solve today's EMC problems and address the EMC problems of the future. We hired at least one EMC engineer from UM. Rich - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer
I also hired my replacement from MST after I retired”. Ken ___ Ken Wyatt Wyatt Technical Services LLC k...@emc-seminars.com www.emc-seminars.com Phone: (719) 310-5418 On Nov 18, 2013, at 2:36 PM, Richard Nute ri...@ieee.org wrote: EMC Engineering is not something that is being taught in colleges Electromagnetic Compatibility Laboratory The Missouri ST Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC) Laboratory supports EMC research and education projects with a goal of developing the knowledge base, tools and people necessary to solve today's EMC problems and address the EMC problems of the future. We hired at least one EMC engineer from UM. Rich - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer
Old EMC engineers never 'retire', they just attenuate their activities. J Dennis Ward Senior Certification Engineer PCTEST This communication and its attachments contain information from PCTEST Engineering Laboratory, Inc., and is intended for the exclusive use of the recipient (s) named above. It may contain information that is confidential and/or legally privileged. Any unauthorized use that may compromise that confidentiality via distribution or disclosure is prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately if you receive this communication in error, and delete it from your computer system. Usage of PCTEST email addresses for non-business related activities is strictly prohibited. No warranty is made that the e-mail or attachment(s) are free from computer virus or other defect. Thank you. From: Ken Wyatt [mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 1:40 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer I also hired my replacement from MST after I retired. Ken ___ Ken Wyatt Wyatt Technical Services LLC k...@emc-seminars.com www.emc-seminars.com Phone: (719) 310-5418 On Nov 18, 2013, at 2:36 PM, Richard Nute ri...@ieee.org wrote: EMC Engineering is not something that is being taught in colleges Electromagnetic Compatibility Laboratory The Missouri ST Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC) Laboratory supports EMC research and education projects with a goal of developing the knowledge base, tools and people necessary to solve today's EMC problems and address the EMC problems of the future. We hired at least one EMC engineer from UM. Rich - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald dhe...@gmail.com - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer
Hi Egide, I also echo what the others have suggested. I started my career as a microwave design engineer, then switched companies after a couple years and did DC-Dc power supplies, then after five years, switched to RF design. All this was in the aerospace world. I finally got my foot in the door at Hewlett-Packard as an EMC engineer (after both my predecessors got fired - that’s another story) and spent the rest of my career at HP/Agilent, where I really learned the EMC skills. You need to stand out among other candidates. You can do this by writing (I first started writing magazine articles while in college), blogging (the newer way to be published), networking and learning (see below). Start networking: 1. build your network on LinkedIn (I wouldn’t get crazy and start inviting all the friends you know…keep it to just engineers and managers - people who can help you with your career) 2. in your immediate community 3. join the IEEE and the EMC Society 4. participate in your local EMCS chapter 5. participate in the annual International Symposium on EMC (will be in Raleigh this year). Take the Monday “EMC Fundamentals” workshop. Once you get a little experience, then sign up for the EMC University” track there. Then start learning: 1. absorb the topics on this forum 2. register on the InCompliance and Interference Technologies websites. You will start receiving webinar training notices and info on other training opportunities 3. Google search out prominent EMC trainers. Their web sites will have good info 4. Check the Missouri Institute of Technology and Clemson University web sites for their EMC programs. They both have plenty of good technical and design info 5. Buy Henry Ott’s book on EMC Engineering and devour it. There are also many other good reference books, but that’s the one I’d start with. 6. Participate in some of the EMC-related LinkedIn groups, such as “EMC Experts”. 7. Sign up for some EMC seminars. If you speak to the trainers, I bet they’d give you a discount if they knew you were “self paying” and/or just out of college and looking to get into the field. Because some product designers feel EMC compliance is an “undesirable” job that just gets in the way of their creative avenues, you may get your foot in the door with less experience, IF you have some self-training under your belt. It also helps a great deal if you can find an engineer or manager that will serve as a mentor and at least help you get a start. If you can get in the door as an engineer and get some experience...then eventually make it known you’d like to get into product compliance/EMC, you may find little resistance! I’m probably missing a lot of other things, but I’ll let the group here fill in the gaps. Good luck, Ken ___ Ken Wyatt Wyatt Technical Services LLC k...@emc-seminars.com www.emc-seminars.com Phone: (719) 310-5418 On Nov 18, 2013, at 12:32 PM, Murisa, Egide egide.mur...@molex.com wrote: Hello EMC Experts, Now that Don listed the job announcement, it got me thinking to ask you guys who have been in this industry for a long time. EMC Engineering is not something that is being taught in colleges; at least not at the University I just graduated from. After a few months working as an EMC/EMI Testing Intern, I became fascinated by this engineering field, I feel like I want to do this my entire life. However, companies do not want to hire entry level engineers as EMC Engineers, they want several years of experience. As experts, would you advise an entry level engineer like me to pursue this career right away, or first find another Electrical Engineering position first to gain an experience in the industry? Your responses will be highly appreciated. Regards, Egide From: don_borow...@selinc.com [mailto:don_borow...@selinc.com] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 12:19 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer I am retiring at the end of the year, and my company is looking for an EMC Compliance Engineer to replace me. Location is Pullman, Washington, USA. Here is a link to the job opening: https://www.recruitingcenter.net/Clients/SELInc/PublicJobs/controller.cfm?jbaction=JobProfilejob_id=17518 - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org
Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer
...@basicisp.net --- egide.mur...@molex.com wrote: From: Murisa, Egide egide.mur...@molex.com To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 19:32:25 + Hello EMC Experts, Now that Don listed the job announcement, it got me thinking to ask you guys who have been in this industry for a long time. EMC Engineering is not something that is being taught in colleges; at least not at the University I just graduated from. After a few months working as an EMC/EMI Testing Intern, I became fascinated by this engineering field, I feel like I want to do this my entire life. However, companies do not want to hire entry level engineers as EMC Engineers, they want several years of experience. As experts, would you advise an entry level engineer like me to pursue this career right away, or first find another Electrical Engineering position first to gain an experience in the industry? Your responses will be highly appreciated. Regards, Egide - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer
Egide: EMC is just one part of the more generalized field of Regulatory Compliance. I started off in 1968, right out of college, with some background experience of being a TV station engineer, a ham and an electronics hobbyist (my experience in mowing lawns, unloading semis and selling ice cream seems to have been wasted). I walked into a small manufacturing operation making RFI filters, at a time when they were in flux immediately after being bought by a mini-conglomerate and having their couple of knowledgeable owners walk away with a wad of cash and no looking back. My first task was to support manufacturing, and then to figure out what could be done with a bunch of test gear that nobody understood. Turns out they had bought the estate of an old EMC guy, and I was fascinated by those wide-band receivers and weird boxes and funny gadgets. Pretty soon we had a test lab up and going, generating filter business for the production group. Testing eventually eclipsed production. And then we got re-organized and moved and re-organized and. I eventually spent most of my career doing one form or another of EMC, components through platforms, materials through site surveys, and a mountain of paper. OTOH, in retrospect, the industry has changed so much that my path may not be worth much current illumination (but thanks for asking, son). Many young engineers would see EMC and try their best to escape; reliability and compatibility were just not capable of engaging their spirits and talents, and they fled to the more glamorous programs or specialties. Two trends I noticed in EMC; the first is that the World used to be smaller. As an independent test lab, I dealt with clients, often very inexperienced in EMC, typically selling to a customer who had an in-house EMC guru. You dealt with both ends personally, establishing your competency and quality almost in person (there were no certification agencies or credentialing boards). Today, those services are provided with much more openness and transparency, and much more oversight. Under the old way, the same guy being picky about your test work could also be a guy who would explain a technical issue to you on another day. That doesn't work that way in today's business environment (and that's one reason why we are all gathered here in this electronic guild hall meeting). The other trend has been the shift from technical engineering to legal management. Towards the end, I spent more time on the definition of legal (contractual) issues, standards interpretation and customer / agency negotiations than I spent on knob-turning. And that may be a better description of Regulatory Compliance; an RC professional might really be closer to a lawyer or a manager than an engineer. And with that in mind, I wouldn't really recommend Regulatory Compliance to someone who really wanted to do Electrical/Electronic Engineering. Ed Price WB6WSN Chula Vista, CA USA - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer
All great advice from Bob Macy, but I can't help thinking of the times I had a Program Manager say plaintively something to the effect of I don't care what you have to do, but get me under the limit. I don't care how much under the limit, just under it. Even 0 dB under the limit, I can argue that, I can work with that, Yeah, even 0 dB is good for me! Regarding Bob's advice on Learning and Teaching, my last 30 years were spent as an in-house EMC expert doing qualification testing. I always insisted that a program engineer shepherd the product through my testing, so I usually got one of the more junior engineers. Over the course of maybe a week or two, through the easy passes and the iterative fixes, that engineer got a continuous EMC fundamentals course (with the most practical hands-on possible). I loved doing this for two reasons; first, those junior engineers were usually fresh out of school, were bright and soaked up what I had to say. And second, explaining why a particular signal leaked, or why some shield didn't shield, made me constantly think about what I was doing and why I really did things that way. Because, every so often, one of those newbies made me improve my technique and clarify my own understanding. A lot of those newbies moved on to other companies, but the ones who stayed moved up in the company, and after a while, most every one of our engineering PM's had sat through my EMC course. It's a long haul, but it was well worth it. Ed Price WB6WSN Chula Vista, CA USA -Original Message- From: Macy [mailto:m...@basicisp.net] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 3:13 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer Not sure what exactly you want to specialize in, inside EMC. However here is my advice: 1. KNOW EVERY RULE 2. CHANGE MINDSET 3. MAKE CONTACTS and these two are REALLY important: 4. BECOME A TEACHER 5. LEARN, LEARN, LEARN; EXPERIMENT = become a Hands On Expert KNOW EVERY RULE! To me, an EMC Engineer is a walking encyclopedia resource. Knows applicable rules and testing requirements. Knows every applicable NRTL [multiple ones] along with prices/estimation of ANY compliance testing [and TIME to test] For example an EMC Engineer will know the answer to the question, What do we need in order to get such and such product sold in ?? Knows the labs to go to, how much to budget for testing cost, how much time, and how many number of units for testing. Will partner with Safety, because UL type labs destroy stuff. CHANGE MINDSET! Think in terms of 'executive' and NOT 'engineer' Do NOT be a 'fireman'. Be pre-emptive! KNOW every product your firm IS developing and probably WILL be developing. Always 'nose around' because EMC is usually, and catastrophically, left to the end of the Product Development cycle. You NEVER want to face the demand, We're ready to go to Production, so fix it, but don't change anything! Plan, plan, plan! Make certain there are enough representative samples. Product managers usually assume the units made for 'checking' Production will suffice NOT TRUE! Allocate units for TEST and SAVE them, store them [if volume of production allows] To be effective here one must be equally comfortable with Marketing, Manufacturing, Engineering, AND Financial Depts. Same level of respect as Legal, because compliance is a 'legal' issue. Set parameters. For example Sony REQUIRES 8dB margin at the Test Lab! Not as easy as it sounds. HP used to set 6 dB [sigh, those were the days] MAKE CONTACTS! You will need access to resources, services, and [sometimes] agency approval people. For expertise and advice go to the local IEEE EMC meetings [do not have to be an IEEE member to go]. Develop a list of Test Labs [especially people inside the labs] and use them to inform/confirm requirements. It is important to KNOW the people, and have them know you, in various countries, organizations, and agencies. Try to become a 'representative' of your firm as rules are being made. BECOME A TEACHER! Make EMC part of the Design cycle, not an obstacle to overcome AFTER the fact. It's always easier and cheaper to implement design impacts early in the process. That means giving some short tutorials, lessons, 'rules-of-thumb', and most importantly, BASIC CONCEPTS of 'Designing for EMC' to Engineering, so when they are faced with a design trade-off they decide the 'right' way. And, wedge into the schedule some DESIGN REVIEWS! If Engineering hides their designs something is wrong anyway. Be prepared to do design reviews informally, lunch conversations, small bit of 'show-and-tell' during a coffee break, or please brag about your design questions. You can do Design Review without slowing down the development process, but YOU MUST KEEP ON TOP OF IT! LEARN, LEARN, LEARN; EXPERIMENT Experiment means to try things just to see the effect [develop EXPERIENCE]. An EMC Engineer is expected to know how to head off EMC
Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer
Ed brings up some important advice. As an EMC (or compliance or product regulations) engineer, you’ll need to strike a balance between meeting the letter of the law (with margin) versus the business needs of your company. While you can’t break the law, you may find you’ll often need to balance what you can achieve EMC-wise with product cost and schedule. For example, with radiated emissions (generally the toughest thing to meet), I would try to achieve at least a 6 dB margin below the limit across all frequencies. This would account for small test sample size and production differences in resulting emissions. Sometimes the right answer might be only a three dB margin. I would certainly not accept zero dB margin, however. You’ll need to explain to management about production variances, etc. For high production runs, you may even consider running audit tests to ensure current products are still meeting the limit. The better EMC engineers will carefully weigh the legal requirements with the business needs and avoid being the “EMC Cop” - a good way to end your career before it starts. Cheers, Ken ___ Ken Wyatt Wyatt Technical Services LLC k...@emc-seminars.com www.emc-seminars.com Phone: (719) 310-5418 On Nov 18, 2013, at 5:47 PM, Ed Price edpr...@cox.net wrote: All great advice from Bob Macy, but I can't help thinking of the times I had a Program Manager say plaintively something to the effect of I don't care what you have to do, but get me under the limit. I don't care how much under the limit, just under it. Even 0 dB under the limit, I can argue that, I can work with that, Yeah, even 0 dB is good for me! Regarding Bob's advice on Learning and Teaching, my last 30 years were spent as an in-house EMC expert doing qualification testing. I always insisted that a program engineer shepherd the product through my testing, so I usually got one of the more junior engineers. Over the course of maybe a week or two, through the easy passes and the iterative fixes, that engineer got a continuous EMC fundamentals course (with the most practical hands-on possible). I loved doing this for two reasons; first, those junior engineers were usually fresh out of school, were bright and soaked up what I had to say. And second, explaining why a particular signal leaked, or why some shield didn't shield, made me constantly think about what I was doing and why I really did things that way. Because, every so often, one of those newbies made me improve my technique and clarify my own understanding. A lot of those newbies moved on to other companies, but the ones who stayed moved up in the company, and after a while, most every one of our engineering PM's had sat through my EMC course. It's a long haul, but it was well worth it. Ed Price WB6WSN Chula Vista, CA USA -Original Message- From: Macy [mailto:m...@basicisp.net] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 3:13 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer Not sure what exactly you want to specialize in, inside EMC. However here is my advice: 1. KNOW EVERY RULE 2. CHANGE MINDSET 3. MAKE CONTACTS and these two are REALLY important: 4. BECOME A TEACHER 5. LEARN, LEARN, LEARN; EXPERIMENT = become a Hands On Expert KNOW EVERY RULE! To me, an EMC Engineer is a walking encyclopedia resource. Knows applicable rules and testing requirements. Knows every applicable NRTL [multiple ones] along with prices/estimation of ANY compliance testing [and TIME to test] For example an EMC Engineer will know the answer to the question, What do we need in order to get such and such product sold in ?? Knows the labs to go to, how much to budget for testing cost, how much time, and how many number of units for testing. Will partner with Safety, because UL type labs destroy stuff. CHANGE MINDSET! Think in terms of 'executive' and NOT 'engineer' Do NOT be a 'fireman'. Be pre-emptive! KNOW every product your firm IS developing and probably WILL be developing. Always 'nose around' because EMC is usually, and catastrophically, left to the end of the Product Development cycle. You NEVER want to face the demand, We're ready to go to Production, so fix it, but don't change anything! Plan, plan, plan! Make certain there are enough representative samples. Product managers usually assume the units made for 'checking' Production will suffice NOT TRUE! Allocate units for TEST and SAVE them, store them [if volume of production allows] To be effective here one must be equally comfortable with Marketing, Manufacturing, Engineering, AND Financial Depts. Same level of respect as Legal, because compliance is a 'legal' issue. Set parameters. For example Sony REQUIRES 8dB margin at the Test Lab! Not as easy as it sounds. HP used to set 6 dB [sigh, those were the days] MAKE CONTACTS! You will need access to resources, services
Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer
I vote you. Regards Tim From: Ken Wyatt [mailto:k...@emc-seminars.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 11:30 AM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer Ed brings up some important advice. As an EMC (or compliance or product regulations) engineer, you'll need to strike a balance between meeting the letter of the law (with margin) versus the business needs of your company. While you can't break the law, you may find you'll often need to balance what you can achieve EMC-wise with product cost and schedule. For example, with radiated emissions (generally the toughest thing to meet), I would try to achieve at least a 6 dB margin below the limit across all frequencies. This would account for small test sample size and production differences in resulting emissions. Sometimes the right answer might be only a three dB margin. I would certainly not accept zero dB margin, however. You'll need to explain to management about production variances, etc. For high production runs, you may even consider running audit tests to ensure current products are still meeting the limit. The better EMC engineers will carefully weigh the legal requirements with the business needs and avoid being the EMC Cop - a good way to end your career before it starts. Cheers, Ken ___ Ken Wyatt Wyatt Technical Services LLC k...@emc-seminars.commailto:k...@emc-seminars.com www.emc-seminars.comhttp://www.emc-seminars.com Phone: (719) 310-5418 On Nov 18, 2013, at 5:47 PM, Ed Price edpr...@cox.netmailto:edpr...@cox.net wrote: All great advice from Bob Macy, but I can't help thinking of the times I had a Program Manager say plaintively something to the effect of I don't care what you have to do, but get me under the limit. I don't care how much under the limit, just under it. Even 0 dB under the limit, I can argue that, I can work with that, Yeah, even 0 dB is good for me! Regarding Bob's advice on Learning and Teaching, my last 30 years were spent as an in-house EMC expert doing qualification testing. I always insisted that a program engineer shepherd the product through my testing, so I usually got one of the more junior engineers. Over the course of maybe a week or two, through the easy passes and the iterative fixes, that engineer got a continuous EMC fundamentals course (with the most practical hands-on possible). I loved doing this for two reasons; first, those junior engineers were usually fresh out of school, were bright and soaked up what I had to say. And second, explaining why a particular signal leaked, or why some shield didn't shield, made me constantly think about what I was doing and why I really did things that way. Because, every so often, one of those newbies made me improve my technique and clarify my own understanding. A lot of those newbies moved on to other companies, but the ones who stayed moved up in the company, and after a while, most every one of our engineering PM's had sat through my EMC course. It's a long haul, but it was well worth it. Ed Price WB6WSN Chula Vista, CA USA -Original Message- From: Macy [mailto:m...@basicisp.net] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 3:13 PM To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORGmailto:EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer Not sure what exactly you want to specialize in, inside EMC. However here is my advice: 1. KNOW EVERY RULE 2. CHANGE MINDSET 3. MAKE CONTACTS and these two are REALLY important: 4. BECOME A TEACHER 5. LEARN, LEARN, LEARN; EXPERIMENT = become a Hands On Expert KNOW EVERY RULE! To me, an EMC Engineer is a walking encyclopedia resource. Knows applicable rules and testing requirements. Knows every applicable NRTL [multiple ones] along with prices/estimation of ANY compliance testing [and TIME to test] For example an EMC Engineer will know the answer to the question, What do we need in order to get such and such product sold in ?? Knows the labs to go to, how much to budget for testing cost, how much time, and how many number of units for testing. Will partner with Safety, because UL type labs destroy stuff. CHANGE MINDSET! Think in terms of 'executive' and NOT 'engineer' Do NOT be a 'fireman'. Be pre-emptive! KNOW every product your firm IS developing and probably WILL be developing. Always 'nose around' because EMC is usually, and catastrophically, left to the end of the Product Development cycle. You NEVER want to face the demand, We're ready to go to Production, so fix it, but don't change anything! Plan, plan, plan! Make certain there are enough representative samples. Product managers usually assume the units made for 'checking' Production will suffice NOT TRUE! Allocate units for TEST and SAVE them, store them [if volume of production allows] To be effective here one must be equally comfortable with Marketing, Manufacturing, Engineering, AND Financial Depts. Same level of respect as Legal, because compliance
[PSES] Job Opening for EMC Engineer
Hi all, Ed is right and so are a lot of the others. I started off in the Avionics Industry and then moved to the Defence Sector originally doing post design work and then eventually into systems engineering. During this time solving problems that were major EMC issues. Even worked on development programmes doing both design and qualification. I was eventually asked if I was interested in taking over the EMC facility on the site that I work. Did this with a lot of help from friends at another EMC facility and people at Qinetiq like Professor Nigel Carter. I have now been running this facility for over 20 years and am still learning. Whether it is testing, trying to solve design problems, advising engineers what to put in their design to prevent emc issues or trying to get legal issues resolved and approvals you tend to realise the amount that you don't know and how much more you have to learn. Regards Andy Andrew P. Price Principle Environmental Engineer, (EMC Specialist) SELEX ES, A Finmeccanica Company Sigma House Basildon Essex SS14 3EL * Tel EMC LAB : +44 (0)1268 883308 *Mobile : +44 (0)7507 854888 email : andrew.p.pr...@selex-es.commailto:andrew.p.pr...@selex-es.com www.selexgalileo.comhttp://www.selexgalileo.com/ * Please consider the environment before printing this email. Selex ES Ltd Registered Office: Sigma House, Christopher Martin Road, Basildon, Essex SS14 3EL A company registered in England Wales. Company no. 02426132 This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or distribute its contents to any other person. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to emc-p...@ieee.org All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas emcp...@radiusnorth.net Mike Cantwell mcantw...@ieee.org For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: j.bac...@ieee.org David Heald: dhe...@gmail.com
