Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker
In message <6ao6f7p76evlg7fn7qsgr5bkdtp3ddv...@4ax.com>, dated Thu, 22 Dec 2011, Pat Lawler writes: I heard that the omission of EN 61000-3-2 in earlier editions of the general medical EMC standard (EN 60601-1-2) led people to think EN 61000-3-2 did not apply to medical equipment, even equipment for home or office use. The line harmonics standard was added in later editions of the medical standard to remove any doubt that it applied. That may have been the case with EN 61326. Possibly, but doubt can be removed by a Note or Informative text. Normative text is inappropriate when the referenced standard applies in any case, whether referenced or not. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker
I heard that the omission of EN 61000-3-2 in earlier editions of the general medical EMC standard (EN 60601-1-2) led people to think EN 61000-3-2 did not apply to medical equipment, even equipment for home or office use. The line harmonics standard was added in later editions of the medical standard to remove any doubt that it applied. That may have been the case with EN 61326. Pat Lawler On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 12:20:12 -0700, "Grasso, Charles" wrote: >Isn't the requirement in the scope? > >"EN 61000-3-2 applies to all electrical and electronic equipment that has an >input current of up to 16A per phase, suitable for connection to the >low-voltage AC public mains distribution network." > >It is my understanding that it is the responsibility of the manufacturer to >test to all applicable >standards pertaining to the product (or have back up as to why the test does >not apply). > > > >Best Regards >Charles Grasso >Compliance Engineer >Echostar Communications >(w) 303-706-5467 >(c) 303-204-2974 >(t) 3032042...@vtext.com >(e) charles.gra...@echostar.com >(e2) chasgra...@gmail.com > >-Original Message- >From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of >david.cole...@selexelsag.com >Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 1:57 AM >To: emc-p...@ieee.org >Subject: harmonics & flicker > >I am trying to find the driving requirement for ITE to be tested to >61000-3-2 and 61000-3-3 (harmonics & flicker). > >For test & measurement equipment 61326 clearly states the requirement, but >I cannot find the equivalent statement in 55022/4 nor can I find it in the >EMC directive. > >Anybody help? >Best Regards, >Dave Coleman > > >--- >This email and any attached files contains company confidential information >which may be legally privileged. it is intended only for the person(s) or >entity to which it is addressed and solely for the purposes set forth therein. > If you are not the intended recipient or have received this email in error >please notify the sender by return, delete it from your system and destroy any >local copies. It is strictly forbidden to use the information in this email >including any attachment or part thereof including copying, disclosing, >distributing, amending or using for any other purpose. > >In addition the sender excludes all liabilities (whether tortious or common >law) for damage or breach arising or related to this email including but not >limited to viruses and libel. > >- > >This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc >discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > > >All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: >http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > >Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at >http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used >formats), large files, etc. > >Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html >List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > >For help, send mail to the list administrators: >Scott Douglas >Mike Cantwell > >For policy questions, send mail to: >Jim Bacher: >David Heald: > >- > >This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc >discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to > > >All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: >http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html > >Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at >http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used >formats), large files, etc. > >Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ >Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html >List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html > >For help, send mail to the list administrators: >Scott Douglas >Mike Cantwell > >For policy questions, send mail to: >Jim Bacher: >David Heald: - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker
Isn't the requirement in the scope? "EN 61000-3-2 applies to all electrical and electronic equipment that has an input current of up to 16A per phase, suitable for connection to the low-voltage AC public mains distribution network." It is my understanding that it is the responsibility of the manufacturer to test to all applicable standards pertaining to the product (or have back up as to why the test does not apply). Best Regards Charles Grasso Compliance Engineer Echostar Communications (w) 303-706-5467 (c) 303-204-2974 (t) 3032042...@vtext.com (e) charles.gra...@echostar.com (e2) chasgra...@gmail.com -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of david.cole...@selexelsag.com Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 1:57 AM To: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: harmonics & flicker I am trying to find the driving requirement for ITE to be tested to 61000-3-2 and 61000-3-3 (harmonics & flicker). For test & measurement equipment 61326 clearly states the requirement, but I cannot find the equivalent statement in 55022/4 nor can I find it in the EMC directive. Anybody help? Best Regards, Dave Coleman --- This email and any attached files contains company confidential information which may be legally privileged. it is intended only for the person(s) or entity to which it is addressed and solely for the purposes set forth therein. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this email in error please notify the sender by return, delete it from your system and destroy any local copies. It is strictly forbidden to use the information in this email including any attachment or part thereof including copying, disclosing, distributing, amending or using for any other purpose. In addition the sender excludes all liabilities (whether tortious or common law) for damage or breach arising or related to this email including but not limited to viruses and libel. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker
In message , dated Wed, 21 Dec 2011, "ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen" writes: So in order of best results: 1. Ask a consultant What about: 0 Ask on this mailing list ? -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker
There are not that much standards applicable to each and every product, unless you never read the list. If you do not know which standard is applicable, one also can opt for the generic standards set. The phenomena based approach is imho the way if you cannot afford the use of a consultant. So in order of best results: 1. Ask a consultant 2. search for an applicable standard for harmonics and flicker (4 exist <16 and >16 amp) 3. search the scope of harmonized standards for the best fit for emissions 4. search the scope of harmonized standards for best fit for immunity 5. Be aware that sometime 3&4 are 2 different standards, and sometimes 3&4 are in one standard 6. Verify you actually selected the applicable version (LOOK at the DATE in the list , newest is not always best). 7. Verify you found and read all valid amendments ad corrigenda 8. Search Google for a DoC for a similar product and copy; you will probably end up with an obsolete list 9. Now you are really confused: go back to 1. Yours truly Regards, Ing. Gert Gremmen, BSc Consultancy and test house g.grem...@cetest.nl www.cetest.nl Kiotoweg 363 3047 BG Rotterdam T 31(0)104152426 F 31(0)104154953 Before printing, think about the environment. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] Namens Ian White (UK) Verzonden: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 1:27 PM Aan: david.cole...@selexelsag.com; Charlie Blackham CC: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Onderwerp: RE: [PSES] harmonics & flicker Dave, Your main point is true, but consider this : 1) There are many thousands of products on the world market that are sold within the EU. Each can be slightly different or vastly different from each other. 2) Even sight differences in application and use could force you to look at other standards. 3) Even if the EU produced legally enforced guidelines for all the combinations above, finding the guideline in the first place would still be a huge job. And what do you do if nothing fits 2) Also using harmonised standards is just one route Regards Ian White Compliance and Reliability -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of david.cole...@selexelsag.com Sent: 21 December 2011 11:58 To: Charlie Blackham Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker Charlie, Yours and John Woodgate's responses tell me what I already know - but don't answer the fundamental question, of why there is not a legally enforceable document (and the EMC Directive Guide is not), that tells the uninitiated what standards their equipment needs to comply with, if they are using the harmonised stds route? Can they reasonably be expected to read the scope of every harmonised std? Why did the writers of 61326 feel it necessary to include reference to 610003-3-2 & 3-3, but the writers of 55022 did not? Best Regards, Dave Coleman From: Charlie Blackham To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 21/12/2011 11:42 Subject: Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker Dave You are not required to be compliant with standards – you are required to be compliant with the protection requirements of the EMC Directive. Ways of demonstrating compliance are discussed in “The Guide for the EMC Directive 2004/108/EC (8th February 2010)”, available from http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/electrical/documents/emc/guidance/index_en.htm Section 3.2 covers the use of Harmonised Standards to obtain a presumption of conformity, including: Generally the three main aspects to be covered are: – high frequency emission (related to radio protection); – low frequency emission on the mains supply (harmonics, voltage fluctuations); – Immunity to permanent and transient EMC phenomena. In reality most companies choose to test products to Harmonised Standards, using test equipment made by companies who sit on standards committees alongside test labs who perform the testing – but it’s not compulsory J Regards Charlie -Original Message- From: Dave Coleman [mailto:david.cole...@selexelsag.com] Sent: 21 December 2011 10:50 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker That's my point - I'm aware of the requirement to be compliant with these standards, but I'm giving direction to others less knowledgeable and I need to refer to them to the text that states the requirement unambiguously. If these words are not in the product standards or in the directive, where are they? Best Regards, Dave Coleman “Usually I try to take it one day at a time, but lately several have attacked me at once...” Please consider the environment before printing this email From: John Woodgate To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 21/12/2011 09:41 Subject: Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker In message , dated Wed, 21 Dec 2011, david.cole...@selexelsag.com writes: >I am trying t
Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker
Dave, Your main point is true, but consider this : 1) There are many thousands of products on the world market that are sold within the EU. Each can be slightly different or vastly different from each other. 2) Even sight differences in application and use could force you to look at other standards. 3) Even if the EU produced legally enforced guidelines for all the combinations above, finding the guideline in the first place would still be a huge job. And what do you do if nothing fits 2) Also using harmonised standards is just one route Regards Ian White Compliance and Reliability -Original Message- From: emc-p...@ieee.org [mailto:emc-p...@ieee.org] On Behalf Of david.cole...@selexelsag.com Sent: 21 December 2011 11:58 To: Charlie Blackham Cc: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker Charlie, Yours and John Woodgate's responses tell me what I already know - but don't answer the fundamental question, of why there is not a legally enforceable document (and the EMC Directive Guide is not), that tells the uninitiated what standards their equipment needs to comply with, if they are using the harmonised stds route? Can they reasonably be expected to read the scope of every harmonised std? Why did the writers of 61326 feel it necessary to include reference to 610003-3-2 & 3-3, but the writers of 55022 did not? Best Regards, Dave Coleman From: Charlie Blackham To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 21/12/2011 11:42 Subject: Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker Dave You are not required to be compliant with standards – you are required to be compliant with the protection requirements of the EMC Directive. Ways of demonstrating compliance are discussed in “The Guide for the EMC Directive 2004/108/EC (8th February 2010)”, available from http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/electrical/documents/emc/guidance/index_en.htm Section 3.2 covers the use of Harmonised Standards to obtain a presumption of conformity, including: Generally the three main aspects to be covered are: – high frequency emission (related to radio protection); – low frequency emission on the mains supply (harmonics, voltage fluctuations); – Immunity to permanent and transient EMC phenomena. In reality most companies choose to test products to Harmonised Standards, using test equipment made by companies who sit on standards committees alongside test labs who perform the testing – but it’s not compulsory J Regards Charlie -Original Message- From: Dave Coleman [mailto:david.cole...@selexelsag.com] Sent: 21 December 2011 10:50 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker That's my point - I'm aware of the requirement to be compliant with these standards, but I'm giving direction to others less knowledgeable and I need to refer to them to the text that states the requirement unambiguously. If these words are not in the product standards or in the directive, where are they? Best Regards, Dave Coleman “Usually I try to take it one day at a time, but lately several have attacked me at once...” Please consider the environment before printing this email From: John Woodgate To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 21/12/2011 09:41 Subject: Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker In message , dated Wed, 21 Dec 2011, david.cole...@selexelsag.com writes: >I am trying to find the driving requirement for ITE to be tested to >61000-3-2 and 61000-3-3 (harmonics & flicker). > These standards are 'product family standards', and do not need to be called up by product standards. The 'product family' is 'anything connected to the public low-voltage electricity supply'. The EMC Directive does not call up any standards. Complying with standards is one way of complying with the Directive. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: ---
Re: [PSES] [***] RE: [PSES] harmonics & flicker
In message <3f0347ac6ed9504191f91f07629fbb0c554...@thhsle14mbx2.hslive.net>, dated Wed, 21 Dec 2011, Charlie Blackham writes: In reality most companies choose to test products to Harmonised Standards, using test equipment made by companies who sit on standards committees alongside test labs who perform the testing – but it’s not compulsory That's not fair; all standards bodies have a duty to ensure a balance of representation on committees. There IS a problem of complacency, mostly affecting equipment manufacturers, who don't send experts to the committees and then complain that they don't like the resulting standards. But the situation now is much better than it used to be - at least the more wide-awake manufacturers realise they can't afford to be out of the loop. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker
In message >, dated Wed, 21 Dec 2011, david.cole...@selexelsag.com writes: Why did the writers of 61326 feel it necessary to include reference to 610003-3-2 & 3-3, but the writers of 55022 did not? The writers of IEC/EN 61326 should not have included the reference, unless as a note or in an informative annex. it is not correct to claim to use one standard to enforce another, because that is not in the Scope of any standard. The writers of CISPR 22/EN 55022 wrote correctly (in this instance). -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker
Charlie, Yours and John Woodgate's responses tell me what I already know - but don't answer the fundamental question, of why there is not a legally enforceable document (and the EMC Directive Guide is not), that tells the uninitiated what standards their equipment needs to comply with, if they are using the harmonised stds route? Can they reasonably be expected to read the scope of every harmonised std? Why did the writers of 61326 feel it necessary to include reference to 610003-3-2 & 3-3, but the writers of 55022 did not? Best Regards, Dave Coleman From: Charlie Blackham To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 21/12/2011 11:42 Subject: Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker Dave You are not required to be compliant with standards – you are required to be compliant with the protection requirements of the EMC Directive. Ways of demonstrating compliance are discussed in “The Guide for the EMC Directive 2004/108/EC (8th February 2010)”, available from http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/electrical/documents/emc/guidance/index_en.htm Section 3.2 covers the use of Harmonised Standards to obtain a presumption of conformity, including: Generally the three main aspects to be covered are: – high frequency emission (related to radio protection); – low frequency emission on the mains supply (harmonics, voltage fluctuations); – Immunity to permanent and transient EMC phenomena. In reality most companies choose to test products to Harmonised Standards, using test equipment made by companies who sit on standards committees alongside test labs who perform the testing – but it’s not compulsory J Regards Charlie -Original Message- From: Dave Coleman [mailto:david.cole...@selexelsag.com] Sent: 21 December 2011 10:50 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker That's my point - I'm aware of the requirement to be compliant with these standards, but I'm giving direction to others less knowledgeable and I need to refer to them to the text that states the requirement unambiguously. If these words are not in the product standards or in the directive, where are they? Best Regards, Dave Coleman “Usually I try to take it one day at a time, but lately several have attacked me at once...” Please consider the environment before printing this email From: John Woodgate To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 21/12/2011 09:41 Subject: Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker In message , dated Wed, 21 Dec 2011, david.cole...@selexelsag.com writes: >I am trying to find the driving requirement for ITE to be tested to >61000-3-2 and 61000-3-3 (harmonics & flicker). > These standards are 'product family standards', and do not need to be called up by product standards. The 'product family' is 'anything connected to the public low-voltage electricity supply'. The EMC Directive does not call up any standards. Complying with standards is one way of complying with the Directive. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: --- This email and any attached files contains company confidential information which may be legally privileged. it is intended only for the person(s) or entity to which it is addressed and solely for the purposes set forth therein. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this email in error please notify the sender by return, delete it from your system and destroy any local copies. It is strictly forbidden to use the information in this email including any attachment or part thereof including copying, disclosing, distributing, amending or using for any other purpose. In addition the sender excludes all liabilities (whether tortious or common law) for damage or breach arising or related to this email including but not limited to viruses and libel. - -
Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker
Dave You are not required to be compliant with standards – you are required to be compliant with the protection requirements of the EMC Directive. Ways of demonstrating compliance are discussed in “The Guide for the EMC Directive 2004/108/EC (8th February 2010)”, available from http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/sectors/electrical/documents/emc/guidance/index_en.htm Section 3.2 covers the use of Harmonised Standards to obtain a presumption of conformity, including: Generally the three main aspects to be covered are: – high frequency emission (related to radio protection); – low frequency emission on the mains supply (harmonics, voltage fluctuations); – Immunity to permanent and transient EMC phenomena. In reality most companies choose to test products to Harmonised Standards, using test equipment made by companies who sit on standards committees alongside test labs who perform the testing – but it’s not compulsory ☺ Regards Charlie -Original Message- From: Dave Coleman [mailto:david.cole...@selexelsag.com] Sent: 21 December 2011 10:50 To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Subject: Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker That's my point - I'm aware of the requirement to be compliant with these standards, but I'm giving direction to others less knowledgeable and I need to refer to them to the text that states the requirement unambiguously. If these words are not in the product standards or in the directive, where are they? Best Regards, Dave Coleman “Usually I try to take it one day at a time, but lately several have attacked me at once...” Please consider the environment before printing this email From: John Woodgate To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 21/12/2011 09:41 Subject: Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker In message , dated Wed, 21 Dec 2011, david.cole...@selexelsag.com writes: >I am trying to find the driving requirement for ITE to be tested to >61000-3-2 and 61000-3-3 (harmonics & flicker). > These standards are 'product family standards', and do not need to be called up by product standards. The 'product family' is 'anything connected to the public low-voltage electricity supply'. The EMC Directive does not call up any standards. Complying with standards is one way of complying with the Directive. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: --- This email and any attached files contains company confidential information which may be legally privileged. it is intended only for the person(s) or entity to which it is addressed and solely for the purposes set forth therein. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this email in error please notify the sender by return, delete it from your system and destroy any local copies. It is strictly forbidden to use the information in this email including any attachment or part thereof including copying, disclosing, distributing, amending or using for any other purpose. In addition the sender excludes all liabilities (whether tortious or common law) for damage or breach arising or related to this email including but not limited to viruses and libel. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Sc
Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker
That's my point - I'm aware of the requirement to be compliant with these standards, but I'm giving direction to others less knowledgeable and I need to refer to them to the text that states the requirement unambiguously. If these words are not in the product standards or in the directive, where are they? Best Regards, Dave Coleman “Usually I try to take it one day at a time, but lately several have attacked me at once...” Please consider the environment before printing this email From: John Woodgate To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 21/12/2011 09:41 Subject: Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker In message , dated Wed, 21 Dec 2011, david.cole...@selexelsag.com writes: >I am trying to find the driving requirement for ITE to be tested to >61000-3-2 and 61000-3-3 (harmonics & flicker). > These standards are 'product family standards', and do not need to be called up by product standards. The 'product family' is 'anything connected to the public low-voltage electricity supply'. The EMC Directive does not call up any standards. Complying with standards is one way of complying with the Directive. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: --- This email and any attached files contains company confidential information which may be legally privileged. it is intended only for the person(s) or entity to which it is addressed and solely for the purposes set forth therein. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this email in error please notify the sender by return, delete it from your system and destroy any local copies. It is strictly forbidden to use the information in this email including any attachment or part thereof including copying, disclosing, distributing, amending or using for any other purpose. In addition the sender excludes all liabilities (whether tortious or common law) for damage or breach arising or related to this email including but not limited to viruses and libel. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker
In message >, dated Wed, 21 Dec 2011, david.cole...@selexelsag.com writes: I am trying to find the driving requirement for ITE to be tested to 61000-3-2 and 61000-3-3 (harmonics & flicker). These standards are 'product family standards', and do not need to be called up by product standards. The 'product family' is 'anything connected to the public low-voltage electricity supply'. The EMC Directive does not call up any standards. Complying with standards is one way of complying with the Directive. -- OOO - Own Opinions Only. Try www.jmwa.demon.co.uk and www.isce.org.uk John Woodgate, J M Woodgate and Associates, Rayleigh, Essex UK Some people who are peeling the finch of the financial crisis are thinking of biting a rook. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald:
Re: [PSES] harmonics & flicker
Dear Dave EN 61000-3-2 and -3-3 are both listed on page 13 of the 30/9/12 edition of the EMCD standards. See http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:2011:288:0001:0019:EN:PDF Best regards Ian Unwin From: Dave Coleman To: EMC-PSTC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG Date: 21/12/2011 08:59 Subject: [PSES] harmonics & flicker I am trying to find the driving requirement for ITE to be tested to 61000-3-2 and 61000-3-3 (harmonics & flicker). For test & measurement equipment 61326 clearly states the requirement, but I cannot find the equivalent statement in 55022/4 nor can I find it in the EMC directive. Anybody help? Best Regards, Dave Coleman --- This email and any attached files contains company confidential information which may be legally privileged. it is intended only for the person(s) or entity to which it is addressed and solely for the purposes set forth therein. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this email in error please notify the sender by return, delete it from your system and destroy any local copies. It is strictly forbidden to use the information in this email including any attachment or part thereof including copying, disclosing, distributing, amending or using for any other purpose. In addition the sender excludes all liabilities (whether tortious or common law) for damage or breach arising or related to this email including but not limited to viruses and libel. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: _ Servomex incoming mail advice _ Servomex may, as part of its normal activities, monitor, edit or censor the content of any information and software, transmitted through, or stored on, its facilities. Servomex reserves the right to monitor communications, as required, to protect the legitimate interests of Servomex and its business partners. _ Servomex company information and outgoing e-mail advice. Servomex Group Limited, Jarvis Brook, Crowborough, East Sussex, TN6 3FB, England. e-mail: i...@servomex.com Company Registered in England: No.2170458 VAT No.: GB 522 6077 63 EXPORT CONTROL INFORMATION: Resale, onward shipment or diversion of Servomex products to embargoed destinations including but not limited to Iran, Syria, Sudan and North Korea is strictly prohibited. This email has been scanned for all viruses by MessageLabs and contains information from Servomex which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(s) or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic message in error, please notify us immediately. Servomex may, as part of its normal activities, monitor, edit or censor the content of any information and software, transmitted through, or stored on, its facilities. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <emc-p...@ieee.org> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <emcp...@radiusnorth.net> Mike Cantwell <mcantw...@ieee.org> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <j.bac...@ieee.org> David Heald <dhe...@gmail.com>
[PSES] harmonics & flicker
I am trying to find the driving requirement for ITE to be tested to 61000-3-2 and 61000-3-3 (harmonics & flicker). For test & measurement equipment 61326 clearly states the requirement, but I cannot find the equivalent statement in 55022/4 nor can I find it in the EMC directive. Anybody help? Best Regards, Dave Coleman --- This email and any attached files contains company confidential information which may be legally privileged. it is intended only for the person(s) or entity to which it is addressed and solely for the purposes set forth therein. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this email in error please notify the sender by return, delete it from your system and destroy any local copies. It is strictly forbidden to use the information in this email including any attachment or part thereof including copying, disclosing, distributing, amending or using for any other purpose. In addition the sender excludes all liabilities (whether tortious or common law) for damage or breach arising or related to this email including but not limited to viruses and libel. - This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://listserv.ieee.org/request/user-guide.html List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas Mike Cantwell For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: David Heald: