Fw: Re: CE mark self certification
Posted for Dan Sicard: From: Daniel Sicard dsic...@reltectransport.com Subject: Re: CE mark self certification Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 09:45:14 -0500 To: emc-p...@ieee.org Hi, group, I have heard an interpretation which was saying that only a CB (competent body) was allowed to put togheter a TCF. The purpose of this TCF being to demontrate compliance with the EMC directive. This was basically done to be able to use test data obtain for some others purposes but that one is feeling like showing compliance with some aspect of the directive. For exemple test data gathered to show compliance with the EMC requirement of BELLCORE-GR-1089. It does not imply strict testing to harmonized standards but instead use an evaluation of the test data by the CB. On the other and a TF (not a typo) is something put together by the manufacturer to show compliance to the EMC directive by demonstrating compliance with the EMC Directive harmonized standards applicable to his product. This demonstration could be test report from in-house test or third party. However strict compliance to the harmonized standard is required. In this case there is no need to have a CB involved. Can someone from the group tell me if this is right. Daniel Sicard Compliance Engineer / Ingénieur Certification Transport Systems Business Unit RELTEC Corporation Tel: 514-685-1737 Ext. 4631 Fax: 514-822-4054 Web: http://www.relteccorp.com E-mail: mailto:dsic...@positronfiber.com ---End of Original Message- -- Ed Price ed.pr...@cubic.com Electromagnetic Compatibility Lab Cubic Defense Systems San Diego, CA. USA 619-505-2780 List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: 03/03/1999 Time: 08:20:48 -- - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: CE mark self certification
Derek, Nothing puzzles me about the TCF except your greeting! (And I am smiling as I type this;-- no offense was taken since no offense was meant by you.) Tania Grant, a chappette from Lucent Technologies, Octel Messaging Division tg...@lucent.com -- From: lfresea...@aol.com[SMTP:lfresea...@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 12:51 PM To: rehel...@mmm.com; jjuh...@fiberoptions.com Cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: CE mark self certification Chaps, What in particular about a TCF contect puzzles you? Derek. Owner L F Research EMC Design and Test Facility - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: CE mark self certification
Just semantics here, and not contributing any useful information whatsoever, but... a notified body (NB) issues a technical file (for machinery, LVD directives). A competent body issues a technical construction file (for EMC directive). And of course an agency which is both (NCB, or notified competent body) can issue both. Forgive me for being trivial. Frank West frankw...@earthlink.net -Original Message- From: John Juhasz jjuh...@fiberoptions.com To: 'Biggs, Daniel (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA)' bigg...@gemischova.ge.com; 'emc-p...@ieee.org' emc-p...@ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 12:24 PM Subject: RE: CE mark self certification Dan, I have to agree with Rich Nute of HP (message below), but I would like to add to it. Unless you have had experience creating a decent TCF and have a good example of one, it would be wise, at least once, to use a NB. This way you would have a nice example of a document. John A. Juhasz Product Qualification Compliance Engr. Fiber Options, Inc. 80 Orville Dr. Suite 102 Bohemia, NY 11716 USA Tel: 516-567-8320 ext. 24 Fax: 516-567-8322 -Original Message- From: Biggs, Daniel (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA) [mailto:bigg...@gemischova.ge.com] Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 4:53 PM To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Subject: CE mark self certification Can anyone explain the advantages/disadvantages of going through a notified body for CE Mark as opposed to self certifying? It costs a load of money to retain the services of a notified body and I was wondering what you really get from it. Thanks, Dan GE Fanuc Automation __ Daniel W. Biggs Test Engineer Hardware Development GE Fanuc Automation PO Box 8106 Charlottesville, VA 22906 PH: (804) 978-6946 Fax: (804) 978-5588 E-mail: daniel.bi...@cho.ge.com ** Its a business decision. Assuming the documentation takes the same amount of time, regardless whether a NCB or you... If you use a NCB, your company pays them for their work and their profit. You can do something else. If you prepare a TCF, your company pays you for the work, but doesn't pay anyone any profit. You should be faster than the NCB (since you know your product well). So it should be less costly to do the TCF. But, you can't do something else. What do you get from the NCB? A document. What do you have with a TCF? A document. The only advantage of using the NCB is that the document might be less prone to a critical review by authorities than a TCF. If you are going to other countries outside the EU, a CB Certificate and Test Report can be used to quickly and reasonably obtain any necessary certifications. Otherwise, its one test per country. Best regards, Rich - Richard Nute Product Safety Engineer Hewlett-Packard Company Product Regulations Group AiO Division Tel : +1 619 655 3329 16399 West Bernardo Drive FAX : +1 619 655 4979 San Diego, California 92127 e-mail: ri...@sdd.hp.com - - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: CE mark self certification
Your forgiven. Frank West frankw...@earthlink.net on 03/02/99 09:26:35 PM Please respond to Frank West frankw...@earthlink.net To: emc-p...@ieee.org cc:(bcc: Robert E. Heller/US-Corporate/3M/US) Subject: Re: CE mark self certification Just semantics here, and not contributing any useful information whatsoever, but... a notified body (NB) issues a technical file (for machinery, LVD directives). A competent body issues a technical construction file (for EMC directive). And of course an agency which is both (NCB, or notified competent body) can issue both. Forgive me for being trivial. Frank West frankw...@earthlink.net -Original Message- From: John Juhasz jjuh...@fiberoptions.com To: 'Biggs, Daniel (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA)' bigg...@gemischova.ge.com; 'emc-p...@ieee.org' emc-p...@ieee.org List-Post: emc-pstc@listserv.ieee.org Date: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 12:24 PM Subject: RE: CE mark self certification Dan, I have to agree with Rich Nute of HP (message below), but I would like to add to it. Unless you have had experience creating a decent TCF and have a good example of one, it would be wise, at least once, to use a NB. This way you would have a nice example of a document. John A. Juhasz Product Qualification Compliance Engr. Fiber Options, Inc. 80 Orville Dr. Suite 102 Bohemia, NY 11716 USA Tel: 516-567-8320 ext. 24 Fax: 516-567-8322 -Original Message- From: Biggs, Daniel (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA) [mailto:bigg...@gemischova.ge.com] Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 4:53 PM To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Subject: CE mark self certification Can anyone explain the advantages/disadvantages of going through a notified body for CE Mark as opposed to self certifying? It costs a load of money to retain the services of a notified body and I was wondering what you really get from it. Thanks, Dan GE Fanuc Automation __ Daniel W. Biggs Test Engineer Hardware Development GE Fanuc Automation PO Box 8106 Charlottesville, VA 22906 PH: (804) 978-6946 Fax: (804) 978-5588 E-mail: daniel.bi...@cho.ge.com ** Its a business decision. Assuming the documentation takes the same amount of time, regardless whether a NCB or you... If you use a NCB, your company pays them for their work and their profit. You can do something else. If you prepare a TCF, your company pays you for the work, but doesn't pay anyone any profit. You should be faster than the NCB (since you know your product well). So it should be less costly to do the TCF. But, you can't do something else. What do you get from the NCB? A document. What do you have with a TCF? A document. The only advantage of using the NCB is that the document might be less prone to a critical review by authorities than a TCF. If you are going to other countries outside the EU, a CB Certificate and Test Report can be used to quickly and reasonably obtain any necessary certifications. Otherwise, its one test per country. Best regards, Rich - Richard Nute Product Safety Engineer Hewlett-Packard Company Product Regulations Group AiO Division Tel : +1 619 655 3329 16399 West Bernardo Drive FAX : +1 619 655 4979 San Diego, California 92127 e-mail: ri...@sdd.hp.com - - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: CE mark self certification
Derek, thanks for the TCF information. This brings up another question I have concerning EMC test reports in general. When there was basically only the Europe and the U.S. to be specifically tested for, we produced two test reports tailored to these areas (graphs and limit lines, test setups, labeling, testing requirements, etc.). But now with many other countries requiring EMC testing and soon to be many others in the future, the tailoring of test reports is not or will not be practical. Will countries accept a single test report based on IEC standards (perhaps with a chart showing the equivalent country standard)? But if there are any significant changes from country to country then a single report can become complicated and confusing. What are others doing or going to do? Bob Heller 3M Company - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: CE mark self certification
Bob, We test our product at a local accredited test house for CE and FCC pt 15. Initially we had certificates for passes against the various EN specs and a full FCC report with photographs. Because we make telecommunications products, most countries require a detailed telecomms submission, with the EMC aspects as an annex. We subsequently found that full EN reports, rather than certificates, were required for some of these submissions. Most countries seem to base their regulatory specifications on the FCC or CISPR / EN limits, so sometimes the reports meet their requirements. For Australian and New Zealand, our test house can produce an AS/NZS 3548 report directly from the EN55022 etc. test results (and at a discount if it is produced at the same time as the EN report). Where independent testing is required in the target country, this is usually handled by the local distributor. Unless the country's limits or test methods differ significantly from those to which you tested, there should be no problem passing. Others may do it differently, but it has worked for us so far. I'm not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but EN55024:1998 is replacing EN50082-1 for immunity of information technology equipment. The date of cessation of the old spec is 1st July 2001. This appeared in the EC Official Journal on 27/2/1999 ref C 57. Regards, Geoff From: rehel...@mmm.com To:lfresea...@aol.com Cc:emc-p...@majordomo.ieee.org Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 04:19:42 -0600 Subject: Re: CE mark self certification Reply-to: rehel...@mmm.com Derek, thanks for the TCF information. This brings up another question I have concerning EMC test reports in general. When there was basically only the Europe and the U.S. to be specifically tested for, we produced two test reports tailored to these areas (graphs and limit lines, test setups, labeling, testing requirements, etc.). But now with many other countries requiring EMC testing and soon to be many others in the future, the tailoring of test reports is not or will not be practical. Will countries accept a single test report based on IEC standards (perhaps with a chart showing the equivalent country standard)? But if there are any significant changes from country to country then a single report can become complicated and confusing. What are others doing or going to do? Bob Heller 3M Company *Geoff Lister email: geoff.lis...@motionmedia.co.uk *Motion Media Technology Ltd., Horton Hall, Horton, Bristol, BS37 6QN, UK. *POTS : +44-(0)1454-313444 or +44-(0)1454-338561 (direct) *ISDN : +44-(0)1454-338555 or +44-(0)1454-338554 (direct) *FAX : +44-(0)1454-313678 Home : +44-(0)1275-854025 *WWW : http://www.motionmedia.co.uk/ - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: CE mark self certification
Dan, I have to agree with Rich Nute of HP (message below), but I would like to add to it. Unless you have had experience creating a decent TCF and have a good example of one, it would be wise, at least once, to use a NB. This way you would have a nice example of a document. John A. Juhasz Product Qualification Compliance Engr. Fiber Options, Inc. 80 Orville Dr. Suite 102 Bohemia, NY 11716 USA Tel: 516-567-8320 ext. 24 Fax: 516-567-8322 -Original Message- From: Biggs, Daniel (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA) [mailto:bigg...@gemischova.ge.com] Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 4:53 PM To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Subject: CE mark self certification Can anyone explain the advantages/disadvantages of going through a notified body for CE Mark as opposed to self certifying? It costs a load of money to retain the services of a notified body and I was wondering what you really get from it. Thanks, Dan GE Fanuc Automation __ Daniel W. Biggs Test Engineer Hardware Development GE Fanuc Automation PO Box 8106 Charlottesville, VA 22906 PH: (804) 978-6946 Fax: (804) 978-5588 E-mail: daniel.bi...@cho.ge.com ** Its a business decision. Assuming the documentation takes the same amount of time, regardless whether a NCB or you... If you use a NCB, your company pays them for their work and their profit. You can do something else. If you prepare a TCF, your company pays you for the work, but doesn't pay anyone any profit. You should be faster than the NCB (since you know your product well). So it should be less costly to do the TCF. But, you can't do something else. What do you get from the NCB? A document. What do you have with a TCF? A document. The only advantage of using the NCB is that the document might be less prone to a critical review by authorities than a TCF. If you are going to other countries outside the EU, a CB Certificate and Test Report can be used to quickly and reasonably obtain any necessary certifications. Otherwise, its one test per country. Best regards, Rich - Richard Nute Product Safety Engineer Hewlett-Packard Company Product Regulations Group AiO Division Tel : +1 619 655 3329 16399 West Bernardo Drive FAX : +1 619 655 4979 San Diego, California 92127 e-mail: ri...@sdd.hp.com - - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: CE mark self certification
Perhaps you are paying too much for a Notified Body. Shop around. The one major reason of using a NB is that you have lots of variants that you don't want to spend money on lots of tests. So, you make logical arguments to the NB instead of testing. I know of one major pc company that does this and they pay very little to their NB. -- From: Biggs, Daniel (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA) [SMTP:bigg...@gemischova.ge.com] Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 4:53 PM To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Subject: CE mark self certification Can anyone explain the advantages/disadvantages of going through a notified body for CE Mark as opposed to self certifying? It costs a load of money to retain the services of a notified body and I was wondering what you really get from it. Thanks, Dan GE Fanuc Automation __ Daniel W. Biggs Test Engineer Hardware Development GE Fanuc Automation PO Box 8106 Charlottesville, VA 22906 PH: (804) 978-6946 Fax: (804) 978-5588 E-mail: daniel.bi...@cho.ge.com - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: CE mark self certification
To be proper the NCB should only issue test reports, the Declaration always has to come from the manufacturer but can be based on your own testing or an NCB. NCB's can still very good in that they can give you access to markets in other countries besides just the European Union. Just a thought!!! Monty Griffith Senior Product Safety Engineer EMC Quality Manager Intergraph Compliance Services Ph. (256) 730-6017 Fx. (256) 730-6239 http://mecsrv.b29.ingr.com -Original Message- From: Biggs, Daniel (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA) [SMTP:bigg...@gemischova.ge.com] Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 3:53 PM To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Subject: CE mark self certification Can anyone explain the advantages/disadvantages of going through a notified body for CE Mark as opposed to self certifying? It costs a load of money to retain the services of a notified body and I was wondering what you really get from it. Thanks, Dan GE Fanuc Automation __ Daniel W. Biggs Test Engineer Hardware Development GE Fanuc Automation PO Box 8106 Charlottesville, VA 22906 PH: (804) 978-6946 Fax: (804) 978-5588 E-mail: daniel.bi...@cho.ge.com - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: CE mark self certification
Can an example of a TCF be found other than by this expensive route? === John Juhasz jjuh...@fiberoptions.com on 03/02/99 07:43:50 AM Please respond to John Juhasz jjuh...@fiberoptions.com To: 'Biggs, Daniel (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA)' bigg...@gemischova.ge.com 'emc-p...@ieee.org' emc-p...@ieee.org cc:(bcc: Robert E. Heller/US-Corporate/3M/US) Subject: RE: CE mark self certification Dan, I have to agree with Rich Nute of HP (message below), but I would like to add to it. Unless you have had experience creating a decent TCF and have a good example of one, it would be wise, at least once, to use a NB. This way you would have a nice example of a document. John A. Juhasz Product Qualification Compliance Engr. Fiber Options, Inc. 80 Orville Dr. Suite 102 Bohemia, NY 11716 USA Tel: 516-567-8320 ext. 24 Fax: 516-567-8322 -Original Message- From: Biggs, Daniel (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA) [mailto:bigg...@gemischova.ge.com] Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 4:53 PM To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Subject: CE mark self certification Can anyone explain the advantages/disadvantages of going through a notified body for CE Mark as opposed to self certifying? It costs a load of money to retain the services of a notified body and I was wondering what you really get from it. Thanks, Dan GE Fanuc Automation __ Daniel W. Biggs Test Engineer Hardware Development GE Fanuc Automation PO Box 8106 Charlottesville, VA 22906 PH: (804) 978-6946 Fax: (804) 978-5588 E-mail: daniel.bi...@cho.ge.com ** Its a business decision. Assuming the documentation takes the same amount of time, regardless whether a NCB or you... If you use a NCB, your company pays them for their work and their profit. You can do something else. If you prepare a TCF, your company pays you for the work, but doesn't pay anyone any profit. You should be faster than the NCB (since you know your product well). So it should be less costly to do the TCF. But, you can't do something else. What do you get from the NCB? A document. What do you have with a TCF? A document. The only advantage of using the NCB is that the document might be less prone to a critical review by authorities than a TCF. If you are going to other countries outside the EU, a CB Certificate and Test Report can be used to quickly and reasonably obtain any necessary certifications. Otherwise, its one test per country. Best regards, Rich - Richard Nute Product Safety Engineer Hewlett-Packard Company Product Regulations Group AiO Division Tel : +1 619 655 3329 16399 West Bernardo Drive FAX : +1 619 655 4979 San Diego, California 92127 e-mail: ri...@sdd.hp.com - - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
RE: CE mark self certification
Good Question. I had a TCF done once by an NB, and then completed other TCF's based on that example and it was well received where ever I sent it. I never conducted research into another example of a TCF. Anyone? John A. Juhasz Product Qualification Compliance Engr. Fiber Options, Inc. 80 Orville Dr. Suite 102 Bohemia, NY 11716 USA Tel: 516-567-8320 ext. 24 Fax: 516-567-8322 -Original Message- From: rehel...@mmm.com [mailto:rehel...@mmm.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 1999 2:45 PM To: John Juhasz Cc: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Subject: RE: CE mark self certification Can an example of a TCF be found other than by this expensive route? === John Juhasz jjuh...@fiberoptions.com on 03/02/99 07:43:50 AM Please respond to John Juhasz jjuh...@fiberoptions.com To: 'Biggs, Daniel (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA)' bigg...@gemischova.ge.com 'emc-p...@ieee.org' emc-p...@ieee.org cc:(bcc: Robert E. Heller/US-Corporate/3M/US) Subject: RE: CE mark self certification Dan, I have to agree with Rich Nute of HP (message below), but I would like to add to it. Unless you have had experience creating a decent TCF and have a good example of one, it would be wise, at least once, to use a NB. This way you would have a nice example of a document. John A. Juhasz Product Qualification Compliance Engr. Fiber Options, Inc. 80 Orville Dr. Suite 102 Bohemia, NY 11716 USA Tel: 516-567-8320 ext. 24 Fax: 516-567-8322 -Original Message- From: Biggs, Daniel (IndSys, GEFanuc, NA) [mailto:bigg...@gemischova.ge.com] Sent: Monday, March 01, 1999 4:53 PM To: 'emc-p...@ieee.org' Subject: CE mark self certification Can anyone explain the advantages/disadvantages of going through a notified body for CE Mark as opposed to self certifying? It costs a load of money to retain the services of a notified body and I was wondering what you really get from it. Thanks, Dan GE Fanuc Automation __ Daniel W. Biggs Test Engineer Hardware Development GE Fanuc Automation PO Box 8106 Charlottesville, VA 22906 PH: (804) 978-6946 Fax: (804) 978-5588 E-mail: daniel.bi...@cho.ge.com ** Its a business decision. Assuming the documentation takes the same amount of time, regardless whether a NCB or you... If you use a NCB, your company pays them for their work and their profit. You can do something else. If you prepare a TCF, your company pays you for the work, but doesn't pay anyone any profit. You should be faster than the NCB (since you know your product well). So it should be less costly to do the TCF. But, you can't do something else. What do you get from the NCB? A document. What do you have with a TCF? A document. The only advantage of using the NCB is that the document might be less prone to a critical review by authorities than a TCF. If you are going to other countries outside the EU, a CB Certificate and Test Report can be used to quickly and reasonably obtain any necessary certifications. Otherwise, its one test per country. Best regards, Rich - Richard Nute Product Safety Engineer Hewlett-Packard Company Product Regulations Group AiO Division Tel : +1 619 655 3329 16399 West Bernardo Drive FAX : +1 619 655 4979 San Diego, California 92127 e-mail: ri...@sdd.hp.com - - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators). - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: CE mark self certification
Chaps, What in particular about a TCF contect puzzles you? Derek. Owner L F Research EMC Design and Test Facility - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: CE mark self certification
Nothing about the content is puzzling..the basic required content is pretty much defined. I am more curious as to the format, presentation, added extras, handling of measurement uncertainty, etc. that is used by industry wide TCF creators. The content of EMC Test Reports are clearly defined by accrediting agencies...but I guarantee you they are as different as night and day across the industry. Bob Heller lfresea...@aol.com on 03/02/99 02:51:20 PM To: Robert E. Heller/US-Corporate/3M/US jjuh...@fiberoptions.com cc: emc-p...@ieee.org Subject: Re: CE mark self certification Chaps, What in particular about a TCF contect puzzles you? Derek. Owner L F Research EMC Design and Test Facility - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: CE mark self certification
Bob, here is what I do I prepare a main report. In this report I give all the background data, the make up of the system, what specifically is there for EMC purposes etc.. As part of this report I have the table saying what the equipment has to meet, this table references additional reports where the data supporting our claims can be found. If we have to make an exception, for whatever reason, I include that in the report where data is. I keep Appendicies for containing details when changes have to be made. I include tationale if the change is small. Large changes result in the CB getting chance to review the document again and issue another certificate. Just FYI, all documentation, including the CB documents are in Adobe Acrobat and the references are hot linked. It fits neatly on a CD ROM, I keep one copy at work and one at home. Some aspects of the TCF will be on our website soon, but the TCF does contain too much detail on how we make things happen for it all to be public. Any use to you? Best regards, Derek. - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
Re: CE mark self certification
Hi Dan: Can anyone explain the advantages/disadvantages of going through a notified body for CE Mark as opposed to self certifying? It costs a load of money to retain the services of a notified body and I was wondering what you really get from it. Its a business decision. Assuming the documentation takes the same amount of time, regardless whether a NCB or you... If you use a NCB, your company pays them for their work and their profit. You can do something else. If you prepare a TCF, your company pays you for the work, but doesn't pay anyone any profit. You should be faster than the NCB (since you know your product well). So it should be less costly to do the TCF. But, you can't do something else. What do you get from the NCB? A document. What do you have with a TCF? A document. The only advantage of using the NCB is that the document might be less prone to a critical review by authorities than a TCF. If you are going to other countries outside the EU, a CB Certificate and Test Report can be used to quickly and reasonably obtain any necessary certifications. Otherwise, its one test per country. Best regards, Rich - Richard Nute Product Safety Engineer Hewlett-Packard Company Product Regulations Group AiO Division Tel : +1 619 655 3329 16399 West Bernardo Drive FAX : +1 619 655 4979 San Diego, California 92127 e-mail: ri...@sdd.hp.com - - This message is coming from the emc-pstc discussion list. To cancel your subscription, send mail to majord...@ieee.org with the single line: unsubscribe emc-pstc (without the quotes). For help, send mail to ed.pr...@cubic.com, j...@gwmail.monarch.com, ri...@sdd.hp.com, or roger.volgst...@compaq.com (the list administrators).
