[Emc-users] 4 to 5 axis milling SW Re: Testing
Risto, dxf2gcode will not get you 5 axis milling If you use Rhino 3D there is MadCAM, (link on the rhino3d.com website http://www.rhino3d.com/resources/display.asp?language=listing=460). The German Rhino agent FILOU has some more info stating that version 4.1 has 4 5 axis milling support. This page http://www.filou.de/madcam/ contains some information in German. Kostenlos testen on the right means Free trial ;-), a link to the 30 day Rhino 4.0 demo version is 3 lines below the bullet. There are two videos on 4 and 5 axis milling. The narrator is a German guy but the language is English. Looks promising and I am looking at buying a Rhino/Penguin/Flamingo/MadCAM (totals around 2800 EUR) as soon as I can afford it ... There is more software available on both Windows and Linux. Mastercam and EdgeCAM are examples of (expensive?) Windows software. I am not a Linux CAD user (I stick to Embedded Linux, EMC and web/file/mail-servers), all my CAD is done in Windows (sorry). Regards, Rob ftec wrote: Hello folks, Testing if I'm on the list now but I also have a question. Was looking for 4 to 5 axis cnc sw for a home built cnc machine and found this list making me very interested. What I would like to know is if there is a way to combine emc and cad designs done with win based cad sw. If so, how? I can export part files in IGES, STL, STEP, Catia, ProE and a few other formats. I have never used Linux but then there always must be the first time, right? Thanks, Risto -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Testing
Thanks Emory and others, I am aware of the process in general, I currently have Mach and Visualmill 6 std for cam but it only supports 3 axis, Eventually I'll be needing 5 but a commercial program would make too big a hole in my assets. Solidworks, which I am using for designs, does not support dxf. When listing those file formats I was hoping to hear of a program, on the Linux side, which can read in the part in one of those formats and convert it to 5-axis G-code. Two pcs connect as network, the other one for Linux driving the milling machine and the other one with windows for cad would be an easy way to go. I'm yet to get another machine for Linux so I really don't know what features there already exist in emc. But if there is a solution for the file conversion, does emc do the rest, ie. simulate visually the milling of the work piece, having tool libraries etc.? Thanks, Risto - Original Message - From: Emory Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: 11. joulukuuta 2008 7:04 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Testing As Jon said, EMC uses G-Code but many CAD programs have the ability to export in DXF format. If you can do this, then check out: http://www.christian-kohloeffel.homepage.t-online.de/dxf2gocde.html This fellow has written a DXF to G-code converter that works with everything I've thrown at it. YMMV. Again, as Jon said, Linux isn't the issue. On a network, it can look like just another networked Windows machine and can read FAT, FAT32 and NTFS formatted USB thumb/flash disks if there's no net available. Transferring your files is trivial once you learn the Linux way of doing things. And please do. It'll take some time and you will have questions. There are people here who can help you through your journey. Good luck and welcome to the club!, E On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 22:28, Jon Elson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ftec wrote: Hello folks, Testing if I'm on the list now but I also have a question. Was looking for 4 to 5 axis cnc sw for a home built cnc machine and found this list making me very interested. What I would like to know is if there is a way to combine emc and cad designs done with win based cad sw. If so, how? I can export part files in IGES, STL, STEP, Catia, ProE and a few other formats. I have never used Linux but then there always must be the first time, right? Linux really isn't the issue. EMC takes G-code (technically RS274-D) a language for motion control used by most machine tools. I think IGES is a graphical exchange format for exchanging printed documents electronically. STL is a system for describing a volume, good for rapid prototyping with a variety of systems that usually make plastic models layer by layer. Catia and ProE are specific CAD drawing programs, not a language for interchanging mchining info. They and many others have a facility to output G-code at varying levels of sophistication. Jon -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Those that forget the pasta are doomed to reheat it. Emory -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Testing
Risto I am aware of the process in general, I currently have Mach and Visualmill 6 std for cam but it only supports 3 axis, Eventually I'll be needing 5 but a commercial program would make too big a hole in my assets. Solidworks, which I am using for designs, does not support dxf. If you use Solidworks and produce a 1:1 drawing of a suitable view of the part without a page title block, dimensions etc. you can Save As in DXF format. The files import into 2.5D CAM packages like SheetCAM fine. You probably want to shuffle with layers to machine the features to the depths you want. John Prentice -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] How can I calculate the INPUT_SCALE value?
Dear Jon, Today I tune the PID again. Would you mind help me to check the value and give me some suggestion? Thank you! [TRAJ] DEFAULT_VELOCITY = 13.30 MAX_VELOCITY = 33.34 DEFAULT_ACCELERATION = 45.0 MAX_ACCELERATION = 50.0 [AXIS_1] MAX_VELOCITY = 50.0 MAX_ACCELERATION = 50.0 BACKLASH = 0.000 INPUT_SCALE = -2835 When P=20, I=50, D=0, FF1=0, FF2=0 and click 'F2' http://myweb.polyu.edu.hk/~icwfchan/p1.png When P=20, I=50, D=0, FF1=0.198, FF2=0 and run 'Y=20' http://myweb.polyu.edu.hk/~icwfchan/p2.png When P=20, I=50, D=0, FF1=0.198, FF2=0.00021 and run 'Y=20' http://myweb.polyu.edu.hk/~icwfchan/p3.png Howard Howard Chan wrote: Dear Jon, Thanks you give me some suggest. Today I try to use small value of the P. But there are an error when I click 'F2'. http://myweb.polyu.edu.hk/~icwfchan/error.png Would you mind telling me what has happen? WOW, very strange. I think it is integral windup. Your parameters of huge I and small D are quite odd. Set I to zero first, and see if this gyration when you hit F2 goes away. I think it will. http://myweb.polyu.edu.hk/~icwfchan/x.png I would like to ask you is it the accel/decel too high and how can I find the best value of DEFAULT_ACCELERATION Find out what the drive is capable of, by increasing it in moderate steps until a large error suddenly appears during the accel/decel parts of the move. Then, back off, say 20 to 25% from that value. On my Bridgeport mill, if I turn up the accel too much, I break timing belts. I know that the belts are undersized for the mass of the machine. My setting: [TRAJ] DEFAULT_VELOCITY = 10.0 MAX_VELOCITY = 37.6 DEFAULT_ACCELERATION = 112.8 MAX_ACCELERATION = 138.0 [AXIS_0] MAX_VELOCITY = 56.4 MAX_ACCELERATION = 112.8 P = 4.000 I = 100.000 D = 0.00 FF0 = 0.000 FF1 = 0.089 FF2 = 0.0019 Jon -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Testing
Hi I don't know if you've seen this or if it's of help to you; http://www.rainnea.com/cnc_toolkit.htm Regards Roland 2008/12/11 ftec [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Emory and others, I am aware of the process in general, I currently have Mach and Visualmill 6 std for cam but it only supports 3 axis, Eventually I'll be needing 5 but a commercial program would make too big a hole in my assets. Solidworks, which I am using for designs, does not support dxf. When listing those file formats I was hoping to hear of a program, on the Linux side, which can read in the part in one of those formats and convert it to 5-axis G-code. Two pcs connect as network, the other one for Linux driving the milling machine and the other one with windows for cad would be an easy way to go. I'm yet to get another machine for Linux so I really don't know what features there already exist in emc. But if there is a solution for the file conversion, does emc do the rest, ie. simulate visually the milling of the work piece, having tool libraries etc.? Thanks, Risto - Original Message - From: Emory Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: 11. joulukuuta 2008 7:04 Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Testing As Jon said, EMC uses G-Code but many CAD programs have the ability to export in DXF format. If you can do this, then check out: http://www.christian-kohloeffel.homepage.t-online.de/dxf2gocde.html This fellow has written a DXF to G-code converter that works with everything I've thrown at it. YMMV. Again, as Jon said, Linux isn't the issue. On a network, it can look like just another networked Windows machine and can read FAT, FAT32 and NTFS formatted USB thumb/flash disks if there's no net available. Transferring your files is trivial once you learn the Linux way of doing things. And please do. It'll take some time and you will have questions. There are people here who can help you through your journey. Good luck and welcome to the club!, E On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 22:28, Jon Elson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ftec wrote: Hello folks, Testing if I'm on the list now but I also have a question. Was looking for 4 to 5 axis cnc sw for a home built cnc machine and found this list making me very interested. What I would like to know is if there is a way to combine emc and cad designs done with win based cad sw. If so, how? I can export part files in IGES, STL, STEP, Catia, ProE and a few other formats. I have never used Linux but then there always must be the first time, right? Linux really isn't the issue. EMC takes G-code (technically RS274-D) a language for motion control used by most machine tools. I think IGES is a graphical exchange format for exchanging printed documents electronically. STL is a system for describing a volume, good for rapid prototyping with a variety of systems that usually make plastic models layer by layer. Catia and ProE are specific CAD drawing programs, not a language for interchanging mchining info. They and many others have a facility to output G-code at varying levels of sophistication. Jon -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Those that forget the pasta are doomed to reheat it. Emory -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] How can I calculate the INPUT_SCALE value?
On Dec 11, 2008, at 6:11 AM, Howard Chan wrote: Dear Jon, Today I tune the PID again. Would you mind help me to check the value and give me some suggestion? Thank you! [TRAJ] DEFAULT_VELOCITY = 13.30 MAX_VELOCITY = 33.34 DEFAULT_ACCELERATION = 45.0 MAX_ACCELERATION = 50.0 [AXIS_1] MAX_VELOCITY = 50.0 MAX_ACCELERATION = 50.0 BACKLASH = 0.000 INPUT_SCALE = -2835 When P=20, I=50, D=0, FF1=0, FF2=0 and click 'F2' http://myweb.polyu.edu.hk/~icwfchan/p1.png When P=20, I=50, D=0, FF1=0.198, FF2=0 and run 'Y=20' http://myweb.polyu.edu.hk/~icwfchan/p2.png When P=20, I=50, D=0, FF1=0.198, FF2=0.00021 and run 'Y=20' http://myweb.polyu.edu.hk/~icwfchan/p3.png Howard Howard Chan wrote: Dear Jon, Thanks you give me some suggest. Today I try to use small value of the P. But there are an error when I click 'F2'. http://myweb.polyu.edu.hk/~icwfchan/error.png Would you mind telling me what has happen? WOW, very strange. I think it is integral windup. Your parameters of huge I and small D are quite odd. Set I to zero first, and see if this gyration when you hit F2 goes away. I think it will. http://myweb.polyu.edu.hk/~icwfchan/x.png I would like to ask you is it the accel/decel too high and how can I find the best value of DEFAULT_ACCELERATION Find out what the drive is capable of, by increasing it in moderate steps until a large error suddenly appears during the accel/decel parts of the move. Then, back off, say 20 to 25% from that value. On my Bridgeport mill, if I turn up the accel too much, I break timing belts. I know that the belts are undersized for the mass of the machine. My setting: [TRAJ] DEFAULT_VELOCITY = 10.0 MAX_VELOCITY = 37.6 DEFAULT_ACCELERATION = 112.8 MAX_ACCELERATION = 138.0 [AXIS_0] MAX_VELOCITY = 56.4 MAX_ACCELERATION = 112.8 P = 4.000 I = 100.000 D = 0.00 FF0 = 0.000 FF1 = 0.089 FF2 = 0.0019 Jon Hi Howard, You are making progress. :-) However, it my understanding that [TRAJ] values are global and it is a good idea to set [AXIS] values below the globals. I usually tune by plotting following error which is the difference between commanded position and actual position. I think you have the potential for somewhat better following than you are getting. Try different values for FF1 and FF2. IIUC the ideal value for FF1 is 1.0 but that will not necessarily give good results on any given machine. Using somewhat more FF2 may help suppress the accel and decel spikes at the beginning and end of your moves. Good luck and keep at it. You are getting there. Dave - - SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http:// 2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http:// 2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] CNC Newbie Questions.
I'm a guy who spends a fair bit of time building stuff in my garage. I started reading about the CarveWright machine, and it sounds like it could be useful. But I'm a longtime Linux user, and I'd prefer an open-source and modifiable solution. Also, I'd like to be able to work with materials that are harder than just wood -- like steel. Also, I'm concerned that the sandpaper belts that the CarveWright uses to move the material forward and backward may not produce as consistent of a result as, say, clamping the material to the plate. Also, I see that EMC2 is used with a lot of homebrew style mills. That's wonderful and I'd love to get into that -- but, at the moment, I have a lot of projects in mind -- from wood carving to the occasional adapter-plate. So, I'd like to spend more time building stuff than tinkering with a CNC machine. I'm quite capable of building a kit, soldering, and all of that -- but if I do that, I'd rather build a well-supported popular design. Or just buy a reasonably priced commercial unit. My questions are: * What kind of a desktop mill (for a hobbyist-sized workload) would you all recommend for me? * Any recommendations for CAD software? * Are there any FAQs that I should review to get myself up to speed on the small-scale CNC technologies? Thanks! -Luke smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] CNC Newbie Questions.
Luke, Here are some links, mostly of CNC Router machines- many capable of non-ferrous metal work. You say you want to do wood which I think moves you away from CNC Milling machines because of limited working area in the horizontal plane. http://campbelldesigns.net/index.php http://solsylva.com/ http://www.mechmate.com/ http://www.multicam.com/eng/index.html http://www.rolanddga.com/asd/default.asp http://www.shopbottools.com/ http://www.techno-isel.com/CNC_Routers/index.htm http://www.cncrouter.com/index.htm http://www.fireballcnc.com/ I'm sure others will respond. Good luck. Glenn -Original Message- From: emc-users-boun...@lists.sourceforge.net [mailto:emc-users-boun...@lists.sourceforge.net] On Behalf Of Luke Scharf Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:50 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: [Emc-users] CNC Newbie Questions. I'm a guy who spends a fair bit of time building stuff in my garage. I started reading about the CarveWright machine, and it sounds like it could be useful. But I'm a longtime Linux user, and I'd prefer an open-source and modifiable solution. Also, I'd like to be able to work with materials that are harder than just wood -- like steel. Also, I'm concerned that the sandpaper belts that the CarveWright uses to move the material forward and backward may not produce as consistent of a result as, say, clamping the material to the plate. Also, I see that EMC2 is used with a lot of homebrew style mills. That's wonderful and I'd love to get into that -- but, at the moment, I have a lot of projects in mind -- from wood carving to the occasional adapter-plate. So, I'd like to spend more time building stuff than tinkering with a CNC machine. I'm quite capable of building a kit, soldering, and all of that -- but if I do that, I'd rather build a well-supported popular design. Or just buy a reasonably priced commercial unit. My questions are: * What kind of a desktop mill (for a hobbyist-sized workload) would you all recommend for me? * Any recommendations for CAD software? * Are there any FAQs that I should review to get myself up to speed on the small-scale CNC technologies? Thanks! -Luke -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] CNC Newbie Questions.
On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 10:50 -0600, Luke Scharf wrote: ... snip My questions are: * What kind of a desktop mill (for a hobbyist-sized workload) would you all recommend for me? I've had in the back of my mind the thought that a person should have a different machine for each general type of project material. A desktop to Bridgeport type mill for metals, a 4x4 or 8 foot router type for wood and a small router for PC boards. One reason I am thinking this way is because every time I think about putting a wood project on my mill, I talk myself out of it, because I don't like the wood mess and running the spindle flat out for a long time. Wood projects often have pieces larger than my mill's travel. For PC boards, I don't like to have abrasive glass dust getting in the mill's ways. For your situation, maybe a desktop mill should come first so that you can use it to make a CNC router. Just thinking aloud, FWIW. * Any recommendations for CAD software? Check out: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Cam http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Simple_EMC_G-Code_Generators http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Case_Studies and more at: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl You can make allot of useful g-code programs manually. * Are there any FAQs that I should review to get myself up to speed on the small-scale CNC technologies? You might think about downloading an EMC2 CD and play with the simulations. I usually run my parts on a simulator first to work out the bugs, so you might want to get used to it. Thanks! -Luke How much of the CNC machine do you want to build yourself or buy of the self? Are you more of a CNC machine builder or machine user? -- Kirk http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 4 to 5 axis milling SW Re: Testing
Rob Jansen wrote: Risto, dxf2gcode will not get you 5 axis milling GOOD point! You (Risto) might want to get in touch with Chris Radek, who has a desktop 5-axis mill at the 2008 CNC workshop. He has some software that generates the toolpaths, but I didn't inquire how he was doing it. I should have. Jon -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] CNC Newbie Questions.
Glenn R. Edwards wrote: http://campbelldesigns.net/index.php http://solsylva.com/ http://www.mechmate.com/ http://www.multicam.com/eng/index.html http://www.rolanddga.com/asd/default.asp http://www.shopbottools.com/ http://www.techno-isel.com/CNC_Routers/index.htm http://www.cncrouter.com/index.htm http://www.fireballcnc.com/ Many thanks! I've got my reading cut out for me. :-) -Luke smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] 5-axis machining (was Re: Testing)
Risto: So far, the answers to your question about generating 5-axis g-code appear to sidestep the core difficulty --- In general, knowing the 3D geometry of a part tells you next to nothing about making the part. If the part is complex enough to require 5-axis machining, then it is likely to be complex enough to require a true CAM (computer-aided machining) program to generate usable g-code no matter what exchange file format you use to extract the part definition from your CAD program. These CAM programs depend heavily on knowing the available machining operations and the kinds of features that result from them. Most of us get away with trivial g-code generators because we are cutting trivial (from a programming perspective) 2-1/2D parts that can be aligned with the Cartesian axes of our machines and our cutting tool can only go up and down. To give a simple example of my concern, suppose I want to create a TinkerToy hub, basically a cylindrical pillbox with a thru-hole along its principal axis and eight radial blind holes equally spaced around the circumference of the cylinder. An apprentice machinist ought to be able to whip one of these out by inspection of a shop drawing, even if all he or she has at hand is a drill press, a vise, and a basic knowledge of layout. I could emulate the same process on a manual 4- or 5-axis milling machine (3 Cartesian axes + a rotary table + possibly a rotary head) but to automate the process I have to be able to tell my g-code generator what motions and operations are available on my machine, which are useful for creating the features of this part, and which g-code cycles are needed to execute them. Previously on this list, we have mentioned CAD/CAM program suites such as Synergy (www.webersys.com) [MS Windows and Linux] and Alibre Design/CAM (www.alibre.com) [MS Windows only] because they provide many good capabilities and because their full capabilities can be evaluated freely. To my limited knowledge, neither provides for 5-axis machining operations but your mileage may vary. A quick Google search turned up FeatureCAM (www.featurecam.com). It looks very, very good. It also looks very expensive (typical for industrial software), and apparently it uses a dongle-based license key system (gack! I swore years ago that I'd never touch a dongle again). Sorry if I'm bloviating, but with the wide readership of this list, you never know who understands the limitations and strengths of various software strategies being discussed. Good luck. Regards, Kent PS - By sheer coincidence, only last week I was at our local Borders Bookstore thumbing through a newly available book entitled Secrets of 5-Axis Machining by Karlo Apro and published by Industrial Press, October 2008 (ISBN13: 9780831133757, ISBN: 0831133759, BINC: 9570839). It was too expensive, about $55, for me to buy on a whim, but it contains very handsome illustrations of 5-axis processes and comes with a CD containing avi files, high quality illustrations, and sample parts, to quote from Borders website. -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] How can I calculate the INPUT_SCALE value?
Howard Chan wrote: Dear Jon, Today I tune the PID again. Would you mind help me to check the value and give me some suggestion? Thank you! [TRAJ] DEFAULT_VELOCITY = 13.30 MAX_VELOCITY = 33.34 DEFAULT_ACCELERATION = 45.0 MAX_ACCELERATION = 50.0 [AXIS_1] MAX_VELOCITY = 50.0 MAX_ACCELERATION = 50.0 BACKLASH = 0.000 INPUT_SCALE = -2835 When P=20, I=50, D=0, FF1=0, FF2=0 and click 'F2' http://myweb.polyu.edu.hk/~icwfchan/p1.png When P=20, I=50, D=0, FF1=0.198, FF2=0 and run 'Y=20' http://myweb.polyu.edu.hk/~icwfchan/p2.png When P=20, I=50, D=0, FF1=0.198, FF2=0.00021 and run 'Y=20' http://myweb.polyu.edu.hk/~icwfchan/p3.png First trace is just the settling of the servo when it goes from open- to clesed-loop. 2 later traces show you need more FF2, increase in small increments. I think you could use more P gain, less I (at least until all other tuning is done) and a bit of D to damp out the fluctuation in the error. If that error scale factor is 2 milli-mm (2 um) per division, then maybe just work on the FF2 and damping, I doubt you can improve much on the rest. Jon -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] (no subject)
Como andas, todavía no pude resolver el tema de los encoder, no logro relacionar el generador de pulsos Stepgen con los encoder, el generador sigue trabajando por tiempo sin verificar el estado del encoder. Pero bueno, en realidad te quería preguntar otra cosas, estoy teniendo problemas con el backlash, me da error Joint 2 sobre el eje z, y es porque lo tengo muy fino. Backlash 0.16 Ferror 0.05 Min_ferror 0.25 Si deshabilito el backlash funciona sin dar error pero deforma el mecanizado. Si le doy mas amplitud al ferror,min_ferror, toma el backlash pero deformar también. La pregunta es , seguramente tiene que ver el tiempo que tiene asignado la rutina del backlash para ejecutarse que es corto, y por eso da error, se puede ajustar alguna variable para darle mas tiempo. Como se corrige esto. Bueno, te mando un abrazo desde argentina, saludos!! Eduardo. NEXAN Argentina Nestor Eduardo Gonzalez Tel/fax 54-11-4755-4255 http://www.nexanargentina.com.ar www.nexanargentina.com.ar -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 4 to 5 axis milling SW Re: Testing
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:18:45PM -0600, Jon Elson wrote: GOOD point! You (Risto) might want to get in touch with Chris Radek, who has a desktop 5-axis mill at the 2008 CNC workshop. He has some software that generates the toolpaths, but I didn't inquire how he was doing it. I should have. No I don't. The demo gcode was handwritten. John K wrote it. -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] CNC Newbie Questions.
Kirk Wallace wrote: On Thu, 2008-12-11 at 10:50 -0600, Luke Scharf wrote: ... snip My questions are: * What kind of a desktop mill (for a hobbyist-sized workload) would you all recommend for me? I've had in the back of my mind the thought that a person should have a different machine for each general type of project material. I agree in-principal, however I have a limited work-area. My garage is a one-car garage -- we don't actually park cars there, but that's just because my girlfriend likes what I've built so far. :-) Plus, since I'm a hobbyist, I can afford more setup-time for each task than someone who is more production-oriented. It seems like I should be looking for flexible, small, precise, and slow. Of course, if I get really good with this machinery, then I assume my needs will change. A desktop to Bridgeport type mill for metals, a 4x4 or 8 foot router type for wood and a small router for PC boards. One reason I am thinking this way is because every time I think about putting a wood project on my mill, I talk myself out of it, because I don't like the wood mess and running the spindle flat out for a long time. Wood projects often have pieces larger than my mill's travel. For PC boards, I don't like to have abrasive glass dust getting in the mill's ways. For your situation, maybe a desktop mill should come first so that you can use it to make a CNC router. Just thinking aloud, FWIW. Good info -- I hadn't thought about cleaning the mill between projects. I did have to clean my drill-press after drilling some plastic last night. (It turned out really well -- and my small-router now fits my router-table. The countersunk holes came out really well -- but there were black plastic shavings everywhere. I keep wondering if I should just duct-tape a shop-vac attachment onto the platform.) I don't mind doing this if that's what I have to do in order to use my space effectively --- but it is work. * Any recommendations for CAD software? Check out: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Cam http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Simple_EMC_G-Code_Generators http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Case_Studies and more at: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl You can make allot of useful g-code programs manually. It does look like a comprehensible language. It reminds me a little bit of an assembly language, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. :-) * Are there any FAQs that I should review to get myself up to speed on the small-scale CNC technologies? You might think about downloading an EMC2 CD and play with the simulations. I usually run my parts on a simulator first to work out the bugs, so you might want to get used to it. I didn't realize that a simulator was available. I'll take a look. Is that simulator available for Debian or Ubuntu? Also, is it graphical? Or a command-line program that outputs some sort of geometry file that I can view in another application? How much of the CNC machine do you want to build yourself or buy of the self? Are you more of a CNC machine builder or machine user? I'm hoping to be a CNC machine user, at this point. But I'm willing to do more work on the machine to save money and make it more flexible but, since my end-goal is to use the CNC machine the way I use a drill-press or a table-saw, I'd like to stay on th beaten path. My background: I'm a sysadmin with a CS degree who can solder surface mount components, use power tools, and muck with embedded systems. I've supported users who have designed PCBs, users who've done complex algorithms with FPGAs, and users who have dabbled in robotics and embedded systems... So I have some appreciation of how much time and effort it takes to make an electronically-controlled mechanical system work well. :-) -Luke smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 4 to 5 axis milling SW Re: Testing
On Dec 11, 2008, at 8:10 PM, Chris Radek wrote: On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:18:45PM -0600, Jon Elson wrote: GOOD point! You (Risto) might want to get in touch with Chris Radek, who has a desktop 5-axis mill at the 2008 CNC workshop. He has some software that generates the toolpaths, but I didn't inquire how he was doing it. I should have. No I don't. The demo gcode was handwritten. John K wrote it. Did you try any generated code? At work we are looking into buying a 5 axis mill. I never thought it would be easy to operate such a machine, but it seems to get harder every day I learn more about it. And we don't even have it yet. I am also curious if Stuart's machine is using handwritten code or that he is using some kind of cam software. If so, I am really curious how the postprocessor was made. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35tHYaDUmZQ I am using NX for design and engineering. Now that I have my 3axis hobby machine I am trying to figure out how NX cam works. So far, I understand it just a bit, I made a postprocessor for it and all seems to work pretty good. But to me, the step from 3 to 5 axis is not just 2 axis extra. Handwriting code for a 5 sided block might an option, maybe even a pyramid. But I think it is already pretty hard to chamfer all edges of a pyramid for instance. So, you will need something to generate toolpaths, even for parts that don't look very complicated. So, for the 5 axis users, what cam software do you use? How did you get a postprocessor? Dirk -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] CNC Newbie Questions.
Luke Scharf wrote: Kirk Wallace wrote: I've had in the back of my mind the thought that a person should have a different machine for each general type of project material. I agree, in the best of all possible worlds... I agree in-principal, however I have a limited work-area. My garage is a one-car garage -- we don't actually park cars there, but that's just because my girlfriend likes what I've built so far. :-) Plus, since I'm a hobbyist, I can afford more setup-time for each task than someone who is more production-oriented. It seems like I should be looking for flexible, small, precise, and slow. Of course, if I get really good with this machinery, then I assume my needs will change. Exactly. I've had one of those three-in-one lathe-mill-drill things for about 10 years now - for nine of those years it was manual, I just got around to CNCing it last year. It is an OK lathe, a very limited mill, and even worse as a drill press. But it takes less space than either a Bridgeport or a real lathe, let alone both together. Since I got that machine, I've acquired a real drill press (absolutely critical in my opinion), and an 1800lb Van Norman #12 mill. Unfortunately the space situation means the mill lives in the garage, where I fight a constant battle against rust, and where using it in the winter is an exercise in masochism. (Cast iron handwheels soaking at 20F for weeks are not something you want to touch.) That said, Kirk is right... the requirements for the three classes of work he describes are very hard to meet in one machine: Metal cutting: moderate spindle speed, fairly high spindle power, moderate work envelope with large Z travel, extremely high rigidity, high accuracy, low backlash Wood cutting: high spindle speed, high spindle power, large work envelope with modest Z travel, moderate rigidity, moderate accuracy, moderate backlash PCB milling: very high spindle speed, moderate spindle power, modest work envelope with small Z travel, moderate rigidity, high accuracy, very low backlash Just the spindle requirements alone are very hard to meet in a single unit. For metal you need from a few hundred to a few thousand RPM. For wood you probably want 10,000 to 30,000RPM. For PC boards, 20,000 RPM is slow, the ideal speed is probably over 50,000RPM. Metal and wood want a couple horsepower (real HP, not Sears router HP), while PCB work needs between 1/6 and 1/2 horsepower. For metal, cutting forces can easily reach several hundred pounds, and the machine needs to be rigid enough to avoid vibrating under that load. For PCB milling, cutting forces are probably under 5 pounds (any more would break the extremely small tools), and the very high speed means that the mass of the spindle and work absorbs much of the vibration. I could go on and on... what about coolant? Metal cutting almost demands some form of coolant or cutting lube. Even if you are just hitting the work with a spritz of WD-40 every so often, it makes a mess that needs to be totally cleaned up before putting wood on the machine. Regards, John Kasunich -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 5-axis machining (was Re: Testing)
On Dec 11, 2008, at 10:24 AM, Kent A. Reed wrote: Risto: big snip Previously on this list, we have mentioned CAD/CAM program suites such as Synergy (www.webersys.com) [MS Windows and Linux] and Alibre Design/CAM (www.alibre.com) [MS Windows only] because they provide many good capabilities and because their full capabilities can be evaluated freely. To my limited knowledge, neither provides for 5-axis machining operations but your mileage may vary. A quick Google search turned up FeatureCAM (www.featurecam.com). It looks very, very good. It also looks very expensive (typical for industrial software), and apparently it uses a dongle-based license key system (gack! I swore years ago that I'd never touch a dongle again). Good luck. Regards, Kent Hi Kent, I beg to differ. Synergy does offer 4 5 axis. Look under Variational-4/5 axis- Four Axis Mill or Five Axis Mill If you need 4/5 axis this is probably the least cost way to get there. And no ... I don't have a financial interest in Weber Systems. Dave -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 4 to 5 axis milling SW Re: Testing
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 1:55 PM, Dirk bigengin...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 11, 2008, at 8:10 PM, Chris Radek wrote: On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:18:45PM -0600, Jon Elson wrote: GOOD point! You (Risto) might want to get in touch with Chris Radek, who has a desktop 5-axis mill at the 2008 CNC workshop. He has some software that generates the toolpaths, but I didn't inquire how he was doing it. I should have. No I don't. The demo gcode was handwritten. John K wrote it. Did you try any generated code? At work we are looking into buying a 5 axis mill. I never thought it would be easy to operate such a machine, but it seems to get harder every day I learn more about it. And we don't even have it yet. I am also curious if Stuart's machine is using handwritten code or that he is using some kind of cam software. If so, I am really curious how the postprocessor was made. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35tHYaDUmZQ the Gcode was generated by NCL - an APT style language and CAM system I am using NX for design and engineering. Now that I have my 3axis hobby machine I am trying to figure out how NX cam works. So far, I understand it just a bit, I made a postprocessor for it and all seems to work pretty good. But to me, the step from 3 to 5 axis is not just 2 axis extra. Handwriting code for a 5 sided block might an option, maybe even a pyramid. But I think it is already pretty hard to chamfer all edges of a pyramid for instance. So, you will need something to generate toolpaths, even for parts that don't look very complicated. So, for the 5 axis users, what cam software do you use? How did you get a postprocessor? Dirk if you are using NX by UniGraphics (UG) then you have a fully capable 5 axis CAM system (almost as powerful as NCL) :) learning NX without training will take some time training can get you up to speed much faster training will expose you to all the tools I have no direct experience with the post generator in NX - it is said to be very flexible and powerful -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 4 to 5 axis milling SW Re: Testing
On Dec 11, 2008, at 12:22 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote: On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 1:55 PM, Dirk bigengin...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 11, 2008, at 8:10 PM, Chris Radek wrote: On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:18:45PM -0600, Jon Elson wrote: GOOD point! You (Risto) might want to get in touch with Chris Radek, who has a desktop 5-axis mill at the 2008 CNC workshop. He has some software that generates the toolpaths, but I didn't inquire how he was doing it. I should have. No I don't. The demo gcode was handwritten. John K wrote it. Did you try any generated code? At work we are looking into buying a 5 axis mill. I never thought it would be easy to operate such a machine, but it seems to get harder every day I learn more about it. And we don't even have it yet. I am also curious if Stuart's machine is using handwritten code or that he is using some kind of cam software. If so, I am really curious how the postprocessor was made. http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=35tHYaDUmZQ the Gcode was generated by NCL - an APT style language and CAM system I am using NX for design and engineering. Now that I have my 3axis hobby machine I am trying to figure out how NX cam works. So far, I understand it just a bit, I made a postprocessor for it and all seems to work pretty good. But to me, the step from 3 to 5 axis is not just 2 axis extra. Handwriting code for a 5 sided block might an option, maybe even a pyramid. But I think it is already pretty hard to chamfer all edges of a pyramid for instance. So, you will need something to generate toolpaths, even for parts that don't look very complicated. So, for the 5 axis users, what cam software do you use? How did you get a postprocessor? Dirk if you are using NX by UniGraphics (UG) then you have a fully capable 5 axis CAM system (almost as powerful as NCL) :) learning NX without training will take some time training can get you up to speed much faster training will expose you to all the tools I have no direct experience with the post generator in NX - it is said to be very flexible and powerful Emc usesr interested in APT should check the wiki. Search for apt and vapt. The defining manual is: Numerical Control Programming in APT by I.H. Kral The book is long OP but a search of Amazon will turn up copies. HTH Dave -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] CNC Newbie Questions.
John Kasunich wrote: I could go on and on... what about coolant? Metal cutting almost demands some form of coolant or cutting lube. Even if you are just hitting the work with a spritz of WD-40 every so often, it makes a mess that needs to be totally cleaned up before putting wood on the machine. I think I'll drop the idea of working with metal, for now -- that's not a pressing need. I've been looking at the website for solsylva home-built machines, and they look simple and cheap enough that it's a way I could get started learning the technology on a system that can do useful things, without blowing the budget. It doesn't look like it could do metal, but it looks like I could build it for a reasonable investment in time-and-money and see how it ends up from there. It looks like I could make some really neat wooden/plastic parts with the 13x13 fixed-gantry machine or maybe more with one of the bigger machines. If I were to build the wrong machine, it looks like I could reuse most of the parts that I would buy. If I really need to do metal, I can re-evaluate my needs at that point. Also, I currently have a Dremel, a trim-router, and a plunge-router, any one of which that I'd be happy to sacrifice for a project like this. Does this seem like a good way to get started? Thanks, -Luke smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] TRUNK (2.3) version of EMC
Hello, I might be sending this email to the wrong list. Is there a link to TRUNK (2.3) version of EMC that explains what is being implemented, the current progress and bugs ? How can I install and test it? Many thanks! Patrice, Portland, OR -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 4 to 5 axis milling SW Re: Testing
if you are using NX by UniGraphics (UG) then you have a fully capable 5 axis CAM system (almost as powerful as NCL) :) Almost?? NCL must be awesome then? Okay, just read that NCL will support up to 10 axis. AFAIK now NX only supports 5. learning NX without training will take some time training can get you up to speed much faster training will expose you to all the tools I know, but I am not the one who operates the machines. I am only trying to convince the workshop that they should use NX. So, I invest a lot of time in NX cam and I try to learn as much as possible from other 5 axis users. As a side effect I also learn to operate and understand my emc system better. I have no direct experience with the post generator in NX - it is said to be very flexible and powerful What can I say, totally new to it I managed to get a 3 axis emc postprocessor. Emc usesr interested in APT should check the wiki. Search for apt and vapt. The defining manual is: Numerical Control Programming in APT by I.H. Kral The book is long OP but a search of Amazon will turn up copies. HTH Interesting, never heard of it. I have no need for it now. But it is nice to know that there is an opensource option for multi axis systems. Dirk -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 4 to 5 axis milling SW Re: Testing
APT360 will generate gcode for EMC2. It has a post processor for emc2. With a little study you can generate almost any 2 axis motion and 2 1/2 axis motion you could want. I think it will do 3D motion. I didn't try any 3 axis 3D machining. I created and ran some 5 axis motion using primitive surfaces (cones). It gave me the 5 axis motion is was expecting and the motion ran in EMC2 as expected. The output was full 5 axis simultaneous motion not just position and cut. VAPT was functional when I tried it about a year ago. I believe APT360 could generate the code necessary to cut the demo sphere on Chris's 5 axis max. The code would look very different than the code used to cut the sphere. The finish pass cutting the sphere was one line of code. APT360 output would be many many lines of code to do the same thing. Stuart On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 2:35 PM, Dave Engvall dengv...@charter.net wrote: On Dec 11, 2008, at 12:22 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote: On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 1:55 PM, Dirk bigengin...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 11, 2008, at 8:10 PM, Chris Radek wrote: On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:18:45PM -0600, Jon Elson wrote: GOOD point! You (Risto) might want to get in touch with Chris Radek, who has a desktop 5-axis mill at the 2008 CNC workshop. He has some software that generates the toolpaths, but I didn't inquire how he was doing it. I should have. No I don't. The demo gcode was handwritten. John K wrote it. Did you try any generated code? At work we are looking into buying a 5 axis mill. I never thought it would be easy to operate such a machine, but it seems to get harder every day I learn more about it. And we don't even have it yet. I am also curious if Stuart's machine is using handwritten code or that he is using some kind of cam software. If so, I am really curious how the postprocessor was made. http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=35tHYaDUmZQ the Gcode was generated by NCL - an APT style language and CAM system I am using NX for design and engineering. Now that I have my 3axis hobby machine I am trying to figure out how NX cam works. So far, I understand it just a bit, I made a postprocessor for it and all seems to work pretty good. But to me, the step from 3 to 5 axis is not just 2 axis extra. Handwriting code for a 5 sided block might an option, maybe even a pyramid. But I think it is already pretty hard to chamfer all edges of a pyramid for instance. So, you will need something to generate toolpaths, even for parts that don't look very complicated. So, for the 5 axis users, what cam software do you use? How did you get a postprocessor? Dirk if you are using NX by UniGraphics (UG) then you have a fully capable 5 axis CAM system (almost as powerful as NCL) :) learning NX without training will take some time training can get you up to speed much faster training will expose you to all the tools I have no direct experience with the post generator in NX - it is said to be very flexible and powerful Emc usesr interested in APT should check the wiki. Search for apt and vapt. The defining manual is: Numerical Control Programming in APT by I.H. Kral The book is long OP but a search of Amazon will turn up copies. HTH Dave -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] TRUNK (2.3) version of EMC
sa...@free.fr wrote: Hello, I might be sending this email to the wrong list. Is there a link to TRUNK (2.3) version of EMC that explains what is being implemented, the current progress and bugs ? http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/debian/changelog?rev=1.46 How can I install and test it? http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#On_Ubuntu_6_06_or_8_04_from_source Regards, John Kasunich -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 4 to 5 axis milling SW Re: Testing
One thing to note is that EMC2 removes a fair amount of the complexity from 5-axis code generation, specifically tool offsets and the like. Once you have a correct kinematics module for your machine, the G-code becomes a 5-axis TOV - Tool Orientation Vector. The post doesn't have to calculate all the joint positions, it tells EMC2 to move the tool endpoint to a particular position, at a particular angle, and EMC2 (through kinematics) figures out where the joints need to go. That calculation includes tool length and diameter offsets, so theoretically (and Stuart can tell you more about the reality of it), you can take a 5-axis job from one EMC2 machine to another EMC2 machine, and as long as the set of supported axes is the same (XYZ AB vs. XYZ BC, for instance), you shold be able to run that code, even with a different set of available tools. - Steve Steve, This deviates from the original subject a little bit. dig :) So far I have been unable to develop (or get developed) the 5 axis cutter diameter compensation. Some vague argument about the corner rounding not allowing it. suggestion The answer is to disable the corner rounding during 5 axis cutter diameter compensation. Then the cutter path compensation could be generated without concern for the corner rounding (feature). Also, I would like to be able to disable the corner rounding (feature) for 3 axis machines and work. Allow a choice between tool path programming and part contour programming - for all machines. G code or .ini set. Theoretically, 5 axis program portability is there. I have a LOT of 5 axis programs with tool lengths in them. I haven't tried any yet (but I surely will). I should be able to adjust the tool length in the tool table using the in program tool length and the actual tool length. The important number it the distance from the tool tip to the pivot point of the rotary axes. If I use a modified tool length in the tool table that supplies EMC2 the actual length from the pivot point to the tool tip then any 5 axis program will work. (hopefully I said this in a logical fashion) This should work with any machine that has 5 axis tool length compensation. A program running on a fanuc control can be run in EMC2 if the machine limits will allow the machine to move through the program. EMC2 programs in fanuc fidia programs in EMC2 - EMC2 programs in fidia any gcode program in EMC2 - EMC2 programs in any control running gcode. VERY FLEXIBLE you may have to modify the prep sections g43 implementation / g54 ... offsets (some machines use E) / tool change sections /maybe other sections the tool positions (XYZABCUVW) should be usable on any machine with 5 axis tool length compensation Steve is correct when he says a lot of the complexity has been removed (incorporated into the control). Many things can be done that were previously only on high dollar machines and controls. 5 axis cutter diameter comp would make EMC2 much more elite. Stuart -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] how to set debounce time constant parameter?
John Thornton jet1...@... writes: This line loads debounce 6 times. addf debounce.0 servo-thread 1 If you need 6 copies then you need to add each one addf debounce.0 servo thread addf debounce.1 servo thread ... You are correct, of course. The first one I implemented solved the problem with the delay set to value of 2 so I should unload the remaining 5 debounce filters that I don't need. Thank you John, Tom -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 4 to 5 axis milling SW Re: Testing
Dave check Powell's, i got mine used from there http://www.powells.com/ everyone should use powell's for cheap tech books hmm, but i see none avail at powells... amazon 8 used $15.28 seen 12 12 2008 http://www.amazon.com/Numerical-Control-Programming-Irvin-Kral/dp/0136265995 regards tomp Dave Engvall wrote: On Dec 11, 2008, at 12:22 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote: On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 1:55 PM, Dirk bigengin...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 11, 2008, at 8:10 PM, Chris Radek wrote: On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:18:45PM -0600, Jon Elson wrote: GOOD point! You (Risto) might want to get in touch with Chris Radek, who has a desktop 5-axis mill at the 2008 CNC workshop. He has some software that generates the toolpaths, but I didn't inquire how he was doing it. I should have. No I don't. The demo gcode was handwritten. John K wrote it. Did you try any generated code? At work we are looking into buying a 5 axis mill. I never thought it would be easy to operate such a machine, but it seems to get harder every day I learn more about it. And we don't even have it yet. I am also curious if Stuart's machine is using handwritten code or that he is using some kind of cam software. If so, I am really curious how the postprocessor was made. http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=35tHYaDUmZQ the Gcode was generated by NCL - an APT style language and CAM system I am using NX for design and engineering. Now that I have my 3axis hobby machine I am trying to figure out how NX cam works. So far, I understand it just a bit, I made a postprocessor for it and all seems to work pretty good. But to me, the step from 3 to 5 axis is not just 2 axis extra. Handwriting code for a 5 sided block might an option, maybe even a pyramid. But I think it is already pretty hard to chamfer all edges of a pyramid for instance. So, you will need something to generate toolpaths, even for parts that don't look very complicated. So, for the 5 axis users, what cam software do you use? How did you get a postprocessor? Dirk if you are using NX by UniGraphics (UG) then you have a fully capable 5 axis CAM system (almost as powerful as NCL) :) learning NX without training will take some time training can get you up to speed much faster training will expose you to all the tools I have no direct experience with the post generator in NX - it is said to be very flexible and powerful Emc usesr interested in APT should check the wiki. Search for apt and vapt. The defining manual is: Numerical Control Programming in APT by I.H. Kral The book is long OP but a search of Amazon will turn up copies. HTH Dave -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] (no subject)
sus motores son 'stepper' o 'servo' si los motores son 'stepper' no tengo experiencia con steppers y porque necesitas encoders es necessario pedir en Ingles por los developers creo es necesario 'detune' o 'soften' la mechanizado con stepgen pienso que es mejor ajustar sin 'backlash' y despes ajustar backlash - pero no estoy seguro lo siento que no te puedo ayudar mas Stuart On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:32 PM, EDU nexan_argent...@arnet.com.ar wrote: Como andas, todavía no pude resolver el tema de los encoder, no logro relacionar el generador de pulsos Stepgen con los encoder, el generador sigue trabajando por tiempo sin verificar el estado del encoder. Pero bueno, en realidad te quería preguntar otra cosas, estoy teniendo problemas con el backlash, me da error Joint 2 sobre el eje z, y es porque lo tengo muy fino. Backlash 0.16 Ferror 0.05 Min_ferror 0.25 Si deshabilito el backlash funciona sin dar error pero deforma el mecanizado. Si le doy mas amplitud al ferror,min_ferror, toma el backlash pero deformar también. La pregunta es , seguramente tiene que ver el tiempo que tiene asignado la rutina del backlash para ejecutarse que es corto, y por eso da error, se puede ajustar alguna variable para darle mas tiempo. Como se corrige esto. Bueno, te mando un abrazo desde argentina, saludos!! Eduardo. NEXAN Argentina Nestor Eduardo Gonzalez Tel/fax 54-11-4755-4255 http://www.nexanargentina.com.ar www.nexanargentina.com.ar -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] CNC Newbie Questions.
snip I've been looking at the website for solsylva home-built machines, and they look simple and cheap enough that it's a way I could get started learning the technology on a system that can do useful things, without blowing the budget. It doesn't look like it could do metal, but it looks like I could build it for a reasonable investment in time-and-money and see how it ends up from there. It looks like I could make some really neat wooden/plastic parts with the 13x13 fixed-gantry machine or maybe more with one of the bigger machines. If I were to build the wrong machine, it looks like I could reuse most of the parts that I would buy. If I really need to do metal, I can re-evaluate my needs at that point. Also, I currently have a Dremel, a trim-router, and a plunge-router, any one of which that I'd be happy to sacrifice for a project like this. Does this seem like a good way to get started? snip I got hooked in this hobby by a chance visit to CNCzone.com THey have numerous forums from high end machinists to rank amatuers (such as myself). For the woodworking machines, you will find several open source designs for small (micromill) to large 4X4 router tables. There are also several designers that not only openly share thier designs (JGro for one) but also have options for buying precut kits. The Jgro series also provides a path to build a small machine to be used to build the accurate and larger machine. There is also plenty of discussion on the various software and hardware available including open source and proprietary. ITs easy to lose a week reading many of the posts there. HTH Brian -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 4 to 5 axis milling SW Re: Testing
Chris Radek wrote: On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:18:45PM -0600, Jon Elson wrote: GOOD point! You (Risto) might want to get in touch with Chris Radek, who has a desktop 5-axis mill at the 2008 CNC workshop. He has some software that generates the toolpaths, but I didn't inquire how he was doing it. I should have. No I don't. The demo gcode was handwritten. John K wrote it. Oh, THAT'S why you were always making the same knob part. Yeah, the 5-axis thing is not conceptually simple, so I can see why the guys who have done it charge the big bucks. Jon -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 4 to 5 axis milling SW Re: Testing
Dirk wrote: Did you try any generated code? At work we are looking into buying a 5 axis mill. I never thought it would be easy to operate such a machine, but it seems to get harder every day I learn more about it. And we don't even have it yet. I am also curious if Stuart's machine is using handwritten code or that he is using some kind of cam software. Stuart Stevenson has a big shop in Wichita, KS that does aerospace parts for Boeing and everybody else. (He has a smaller shop in Eminence, MO, too. see http://www.mpm1.com/ for more info. So, you should get the picture that he can afford $25K or worse software tools if he needs them. But to me, the step from 3 to 5 axis is not just 2 axis extra. Yup, for 2D and even much 3D, whatever face of the tool is cutting matters, and the rest of the tool can be largely ignored. With 5-axis, you have to worry about the entire shape of the tool, maybe the holder too. You have to treat the workpiece as a volume, and your tool is going to nibble off bits of that volume without ever gouging someplace it isn't supposed to. Jon -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 4 to 5 axis milling SW Re: Testing
the '5 axis thing' IS conceptually simple. The tool axis motion is spherical with the tool tip at the center of the sphere. The radius of the sphere is the distance from the tool tip to the pivot axis of the rotary axis the spindle is riding on. the application of the concept is detailed but not magic and not very complicated. On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:43 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: Chris Radek wrote: On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 12:18:45PM -0600, Jon Elson wrote: GOOD point! You (Risto) might want to get in touch with Chris Radek, who has a desktop 5-axis mill at the 2008 CNC workshop. He has some software that generates the toolpaths, but I didn't inquire how he was doing it. I should have. No I don't. The demo gcode was handwritten. John K wrote it. Oh, THAT'S why you were always making the same knob part. Yeah, the 5-axis thing is not conceptually simple, so I can see why the guys who have done it charge the big bucks. Jon -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- SF.Net email is Sponsored by MIX09, March 18-20, 2009 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The future of the web can't happen without you. Join us at MIX09 to help pave the way to the Next Web now. Learn more and register at http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;208669438;13503038;i?http://2009.visitmix.com/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
