[Emc-users] Stupid idea?
Hello... Few days ago I post wabcam idea onto linuxcnc forum. http://tinyurl.com/ye3tcgo As there are no answer I just wonder what's wrong. Can be that I just post on wrong place... Can be that idea is so stupid... Can be that nobody want that... Can be Slavko. -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Stupid idea?
On 8 March 2010 13:23, Slavko Kocjancic esla...@gmail.com wrote: Few days ago I post wabcam idea onto linuxcnc forum. http://tinyurl.com/ye3tcgo As there are no answer I just wonder what's wrong. There are a few answers, and it isn't a stupid idea as there are a number of other people who have done the same thing, some even as commercial ventures. I even went as far as to buy a webcam to make my own, but couldn't figure out how to make it work with Linux, and other projects took over. http://www.miketreth.mistral.co.uk/centrecam.htm Is an example of a Windows version. -- atp -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Stupid idea?
On Mon, 2010-03-08 at 14:23 +0100, Slavko Kocjancic wrote: Hello... Few days ago I post wabcam idea onto linuxcnc forum. http://tinyurl.com/ye3tcgo As there are no answer I just wonder what's wrong. Can be that I just post on wrong place... Can be that idea is so stupid... Can be that nobody want that... Can be Slavko. The forum is not nearly as well established as the mail list or IRC. I have used the forum when a search has pointed to it, but I find it difficult to keep up with new posts. It would be much better to have an option to have all new posts sent to a forum e-mail list or at least to a new posts list on the opening page. I have gotten into the habit of checking my e-mail, but it is more difficult to go to the extra effort to seek the webite, login, and search through folders to find new forum posts. It would be nice to merge the e-mail list and forum so that it could be used both ways, but I think this would take considerable effort and would not be especially fun to do. As far as a feature finding camera, for most of us normal edge finding works well enough. I haven't even tried probing yet, let alone video feature finding. I do think it would be a great feature to have, and it would be great if you would continue pursuing it. I just don't have much to offer at this time. If I were to help out I would probably read through the AXIS documentation a couple of times. It seems to me there are one or two methods of calling external programs from AXIS. I am often surprised by how much good stuff is in the documentation. For any interested lurkers out there this may be a good time to get involved. Many hands make light work. Slavko, maybe you could start a wiki page presenting the work you have done so far, then a list of things to do. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] G96 Spindle Speed
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_main.html#sec:G96,-G97:-Spindle Says that spindle speed is calculated on the basis of machine X position and Tool Offset. This appears to mean machine absolute position? With my machine X(abs) runs from 0 to -130 but the G54 offsets are set to make that work properly for machining. CSS appears to work, with the speed hitting the max as the tool tip reaches the middle of the work, so have I just got lucky, or is the documentation not entirely true? As a secondary question, is G96 affected by G7 (Diameter) mode? I am wondering if I am running at half (or twice) the requested speed. I guess it is an easy enough question to answer with a calculator. -- atp -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Absolute Encoder Connector
On Sat, 2010-03-06 at 21:49 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote: ... snip It seems to work. I jury rigged a breadboard and massaged my ADC comp into a absolute encoder comp. I get an output from 0 to 1023 as I rotate the shaft magnet. Now, I need to machine a housing with a shaft, bearing and terminal strip and give it another test. I'll post the Halscope and comp file tomorrow. There isn't much left of the original encoder, so I'm thinking it would have been better to just get the sensor chip, if it's available. In case anyone is interested, here is a picture of the setup: http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/EMC2/AEAT-6010/dcp_6888.jpg ( http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/EMC2/AEAT-6010/ ) Here is the HALscope: http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/EMC2/AEAT-6010/AEAT6010_HALscope-1a.png which isn't all that interesting because there isn't much to see. The top trace (blue) is the chip select (active low). The second trace down is the data-out clock which clocks the data bits out on the rise and the comp records on the fall. The green trace shows the value while I turned the knob up. At 1023, the next step drops to 0 or vice-versa. It looks like the sensor is not available separately. There are the austriamicrosystems rotary chips, which are very attractive: http://austriamicrosystems.com/eng/Products/Magnetic-Encoders/Rotary-Encoders but their onesies-twosies pricing is still too high. Too bad, nice product. Now, I need to apply the encoder to feed and spindle override and jog. I suppose I will need to mechanically keep the knob from wrapping, or maybe do it in logic? Since the encoder is absolute, when it gets enabled, it will instantly output whatever value the knob is set for. I wonder this might become a problem? Should there be a way to automatically move the knob to a safe setting? -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Stupid idea?
2010/3/8 Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com As far as a feature finding camera, for most of us normal edge finding works well enough. I haven't even tried probing yet, let alone video feature finding. I do think it would be a great feature to have, and it would be great if you would continue pursuing it. I just don't have much to offer at this time. If I were to help out I would probably read through the AXIS documentation a couple of times. It seems to me there are one or two methods of calling external programs from AXIS. I am often surprised by how much good stuff is in the documentation. For any interested lurkers out there this may be a good time to get involved. Many hands make light work. Slavko, maybe you could start a wiki page presenting the work you have done so far, then a list of things to do. As I tried many time's that camera seems to be simplest acurate method to centering preetched PCB. For other thimgs the probe can be better. I read the AXIS documentation and not yet find solutions for my problem. 1. To execute some Gcode fragment by clicking button 2. To execute some script by clicking button (pyvcp) I do know that pyvcp button can togle some hal signal.. I do know that M1xx comannd execute script. -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] G96 Spindle Speed
On Mon, Mar 08, 2010 at 06:44:06PM +, Andy Pugh wrote: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode_main.html#sec:G96,-G97:-Spindle Says that spindle speed is calculated on the basis of machine X position and Tool Offset. That used to be true. This appears to mean machine absolute position? With my machine X(abs) runs from 0 to -130 but the G54 offsets are set to make that work properly for machining. CSS appears to work, with the speed hitting the max as the tool tip reaches the middle of the work, so have I just got lucky, or is the documentation not entirely true? Yes now it works properly considering G43, G5x and G92 offsets. So no matter how you set the X part zero, you get the right CSS. As a secondary question, is G96 affected by G7 (Diameter) mode? I am wondering if I am running at half (or twice) the requested speed. I guess it is an easy enough question to answer with a calculator. Not affected. Surface speed is surface speed. Chris -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Absolute Encoder Connector
On 8 March 2010 20:16, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: It looks like the sensor is not available separately. There are the austriamicrosystems rotary chips, which are very attractive: http://austriamicrosystems.com/eng/Products/Magnetic-Encoders/Rotary-Encoders but their onesies-twosies pricing is still too high. Too bad, nice product. What does this link look like from the US? http://export.farnell.com/austriamicrosystems/as5045-assu/encoder-magnetic-rotary-10bit-16ssop/dp/1630801 Or alternatively: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProductR=6691501 I have an account with the latter, and postage for such tiny things can't be expensive -- atp -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Absolute Encoder Connector
On Mon, 2010-03-08 at 21:10 +, Andy Pugh wrote: On 8 March 2010 20:16, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: It looks like the sensor is not available separately. There are the austriamicrosystems rotary chips, which are very attractive: http://austriamicrosystems.com/eng/Products/Magnetic-Encoders/Rotary-Encoders but their onesies-twosies pricing is still too high. Too bad, nice product. What does this link look like from the US? http://export.farnell.com/austriamicrosystems/as5045-assu/encoder-magnetic-rotary-10bit-16ssop/dp/1630801 Or alternatively: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProductR=6691501 I have an account with the latter, and postage for such tiny things can't be expensive The Farnell page shows a table of links to their location specific home pages, none in the U.S. RS shows 1 @ L8.36 which which puts it in line with the Avago part. RS has this page which has a U.S. link to Allied, but there are no austriamicrosystem parts. I did find this: http://www.cdiweb.com/FeaturedProducts.aspx?Manf=295Type=93NavType=1 -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Absolute Encoder Connector
You can get samples to play with I currently are using these in a weather van seem to be pretty accrate and stable www.newark.com cares them to but still $8.50 -Original Message- From: Kirk Wallace [mailto:kwall...@wallacecompany.com] Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 4:19 PM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Absolute Encoder Connector On Mon, 2010-03-08 at 21:10 +, Andy Pugh wrote: On 8 March 2010 20:16, Kirk Wallace kwall...@wallacecompany.com wrote: It looks like the sensor is not available separately. There are the austriamicrosystems rotary chips, which are very attractive: http://austriamicrosystems.com/eng/Products/Magnetic-Encoders/Rotary-Encoder s but their onesies-twosies pricing is still too high. Too bad, nice product. What does this link look like from the US? http://export.farnell.com/austriamicrosystems/as5045-assu/encoder-magnetic-r otary-10bit-16ssop/dp/1630801 Or alternatively: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct R=6691501 I have an account with the latter, and postage for such tiny things can't be expensive The Farnell page shows a table of links to their location specific home pages, none in the U.S. RS shows 1 @ L8.36 which which puts it in line with the Avago part. RS has this page which has a U.S. link to Allied, but there are no austriamicrosystem parts. I did find this: http://www.cdiweb.com/FeaturedProducts.aspx?Manf=295Type=93NavType=1 -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Absolute Encoder Connector
On Mon, 2010-03-08 at 18:07 -0600, Kasey Matejcek wrote: You can get samples to play with I currently are using these in a weather van seem to be pretty accrate and stable www.newark.com cares them to but still $8.50 Thanks Kasey, Newark seems to have it. -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Absolute Encoder Feature Request
Thanks to some help from the IRC (tom3p), I got the encoder working with AXIS's spindle override. One problem I am still having is that when AXIS starts, the spindle override always starts at 100% even though the knob is usually at a different setting. When I move the knob, the override moves proportionally with the knob until I hit the 0 to 1024 encoder boundary. After this the knob and the slider agree. Is there a way to have AXIS start with the knob setting? -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Absolute Encoder Feature Request
On Mon, 2010-03-08 at 18:48 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote: Thanks to some help from the IRC (tom3p), I got the encoder working with AXIS's spindle override. One problem I am still having is that when AXIS starts, the spindle override always starts at 100% even though the knob is usually at a different setting. When I move the knob, the override moves proportionally with the knob until I hit the 0 to 1024 encoder boundary. After this the knob and the slider agree. Is there a way to have AXIS start with the knob setting? I forgot to link my config files: http://wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/EMC2/AEAT-6010/abs_enc/ -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Absolute Encoder Feature Request
Kirk Wallace wrote: Thanks to some help from the IRC (tom3p), I got the encoder working with AXIS's spindle override. One problem I am still having is that when AXIS starts, the spindle override always starts at 100% even though the knob is usually at a different setting. When I move the knob, the override moves proportionally with the knob until I hit the 0 to 1024 encoder boundary. After this the knob and the slider agree. Is there a way to have AXIS start with the knob setting? Two things: 1) This method of control is against the NIST principle regarding multiple locus of control. What that means is that since there are multiple places from which you can control the feed override (on the AXIS screen and the halui knob at minimum), neither place can be an absolute setpoint. Consider this - how will you cause the knob to move if the keys or slider in AXIS are manipulated? If the two (or more) user interfaces have different absolute setpoints, how should EMC choose which one to honor? How does the operator know which one is active? 2) At the moment, I don't think there's any way of pre-setting the value. The spindle override value is not an input to halui (since that would violate the NIST principle). - Steve -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Absolute Encoder Feature Request
On Mon, 2010-03-08 at 22:15 -0500, Stephen Wille Padnos wrote: Kirk Wallace wrote: Thanks to some help from the IRC (tom3p), I got the encoder working with AXIS's spindle override. One problem I am still having is that when AXIS starts, the spindle override always starts at 100% even though the knob is usually at a different setting. When I move the knob, the override moves proportionally with the knob until I hit the 0 to 1024 encoder boundary. After this the knob and the slider agree. Is there a way to have AXIS start with the knob setting? Two things: 1) This method of control is against the NIST principle regarding multiple locus of control. What that means is that since there are multiple places from which you can control the feed override (on the AXIS screen and the halui knob at minimum), neither place can be an absolute setpoint. Consider this - how will you cause the knob to move if the keys or slider in AXIS are manipulated? If the two (or more) user interfaces have different absolute setpoints, how should EMC choose which one to honor? How does the operator know which one is active? 2) At the moment, I don't think there's any way of pre-setting the value. The spindle override value is not an input to halui (since that would violate the NIST principle). - Steve What about, halui.spindle-override.counts (s32, in) - counts from an encoder for example to change SO http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gui_halui.html#r1_2_15 (I suspect it was designed for an encoder that doesn't wrap) Since I have an override knob I would not need the slider in AXIS, or I could have a switch to enable one or the other, with an indicator for which one is active. How would one remove the override setting feature from AXIS? Maybe an incremental encoder would be better? halui.spindle-override.decrease (bit, in)- pin for decreasing the SO (-=scale) halui.spindle-override.increase (bit, in) - pin for increasing the SO (+=scale) -- Kirk Wallace http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/index.html California, USA -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] USB connection
If you mean position control, then the answer is no. With emc, usb or serial are not suitable for realtime motion control. For some more information on why this is, http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Emc2HardwareDesign If you mean auxiliary I/O then the answer is yes. A userspace HAL component can talk to devices where real-time I/O isn't required. Depending on the system, this could be used for things like spindle control, rotating the tool carousel, and possibly other tasks. There are some examples of this on our wiki. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?ContributedComponents#Hardware_Drivers Jeff -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Absolute Encoder Feature Request
Kirk Wallace wrote: [snip] What about, halui.spindle-override.counts (s32, in) - counts from an encoder for example to change SO http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html//gui_halui.html#r1_2_15 I believe that's only used by looking at the difference between the old count value and the new to get a delta value. That delta is then used to change the setpoint. (I suspect it was designed for an encoder that doesn't wrap) Yes, it's meant for a standard quadrature encoder. Since I have an override knob I would not need the slider in AXIS, or I could have a switch to enable one or the other, with an indicator for which one is active. If it were possible, a switch would have the bad side effect of suddenly snapping the setting from one value to another as the control point is changed. This is a specific case that the NIST folks should be avoided also :) It's not possible though, there's no way to prevent any user interface from sending commands to the EMC task controller. How would one remove the override setting feature from AXIS? You could remove the code that creates the slider, and any code that assigns keyboard shortcuts to move the slider (I don't know that there are keyboard shortcuts for this) Maybe an incremental encoder would be better? Yes. Connect it to halui.spindle-override.counts. If you have an absolute encoder that also outputs gray code, just connect the two lowest bits to the incremental encoder inputs. - Steve -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] USB connection
No USB or for that matter Serial connected controllers are supported. EMC2 is designed to control the motion by utilizing the PC with the help of I/O boards or via step and direction (and some other variants) via the LPT port. But the source code is available so you can alter it anyway you want. Dave On 3/8/2010 3:40 PM, Paul Midgley wrote: Hello Is it possible to use EMC via either a serial or usb link using an Arduino as an interface board. Any help or information would be appreciated. Regards Paul -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Download Intel#174; Parallel Studio Eval Try the new software tools for yourself. Speed compiling, find bugs proactively, and fine-tune applications for parallel performance. See why Intel Parallel Studio got high marks during beta. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-sw-dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
