Re: [Emc-users] Laser diode for engraving

2011-10-22 Thread Jon Elson
charles green wrote:
>> 50%?  I think that is physically impossible, due to the nature of a
>> population inversion.
>> 
>
> http://www.rp-photonics.com/diode_bars.html has a paragraph on power 
> efficiency.  the practical limit of efficiency has more to do with 
> interaction cross sections of excitation source with gain medium (in the case 
> of diodes is very high), and gain medium with oscillating modes (also high 
> with diodes).  the ultimate conversion limit is the quantum efficiency of the 
> specific set of electronic transitions in question; in semiconductors, these 
> can be tailored in construction of the diode emitting area.
>   
Yes, apparently I am out of date again!  Not the first time.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Laser diode for engraving

2011-10-22 Thread charles green
> 50%?  I think that is physically impossible, due to the nature of a
> population inversion.

http://www.rp-photonics.com/diode_bars.html has a paragraph on power 
efficiency.  the practical limit of efficiency has more to do with interaction 
cross sections of excitation source with gain medium (in the case of diodes is 
very high), and gain medium with oscillating modes (also high with diodes).  
the ultimate conversion limit is the quantum efficiency of the specific set of 
electronic transitions in question; in semiconductors, these can be tailored in 
construction of the diode emitting area.
 
in laser pumped lasers, conversion efficiency can be 80% optical to optical.

--- On Sat, 10/22/11, Viesturs Lācis  wrote:


From: Viesturs Lācis 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Laser diode for engraving
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Date: Saturday, October 22, 2011, 10:11 AM


2011/10/22 Jon Elson :
> charles green wrote:
>> most diodes can actually hit 30%-50% electrical to optical efficiency.
>>
> 50%?  I think that is physically impossible, due to the nature of a
> population inversion.

Thanks, guys, for Your input!
I think that I found acceptable solution, this seller has reasonably
priced lasers and seems that they provide complete solution, which
just needs to be connected to 12 VDC power:
http://stores.ebay.com/electronictoysshop
Their webpage:
http://www.kalecnc.com/

With regards to laser efficiency, these are power consumption data for
their 0,7W laser:
Operating Current                              :  1100  mA
Operating Voltage                              :  10 - 12 Vdc
As You can see, it is below 10%.

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] Laser diode for engraving

2011-10-22 Thread charles green
> With regards to laser efficiency, these are power consumption data for
> their 0,7W laser:
> Operating Current                              :  1100  mA
> Operating Voltage                              :  10 - 12 Vdc
> As You can see, it is below 10%.

the inefficiency is in the power supply.  a 1A diode run off 120V with a 120 
ohm resistor would perform even more poorly.

--- On Sat, 10/22/11, Roland Jollivet  wrote:


From: Roland Jollivet 
Subject: [Emc-users] Laser diode for engraving
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Date: Saturday, October 22, 2011, 11:08 AM


On 22 October 2011 19:11, Viesturs Lācis  wrote:

> 2011/10/22 Jon Elson :
> > charles green wrote:
> >> most diodes can actually hit 30%-50% electrical to optical efficiency.
> >>
> > 50%?  I think that is physically impossible, due to the nature of a
> > population inversion.
>
> Thanks, guys, for Your input!
> I think that I found acceptable solution, this seller has reasonably
> priced lasers and seems that they provide complete solution, which
> just needs to be connected to 12 VDC power:
> http://stores.ebay.com/electronictoysshop
> Their webpage:
> http://www.kalecnc.com/
>
> With regards to laser efficiency, these are power consumption data for
> their 0,7W laser:
> Operating Current                              :  1100  mA
> Operating Voltage                              :  10 - 12 Vdc
> As You can see, it is below 10%.
>
> Viesturs
>
>
Have a look at sites where guys are using the laser from a DVD (notCD)
burner. By upping the voltage, it looks like you can cut thin plastic sheet.
And you should be able to get a few for free!

Regards
Roland
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Re: [Emc-users] Laser diode for engraving

2011-10-22 Thread charles green
put a sharpie in the spindle.

--- On Sat, 10/22/11, Viesturs Lācis  wrote:


From: Viesturs Lācis 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Laser diode for engraving
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Date: Saturday, October 22, 2011, 11:29 AM


2011/10/22 Roland Jollivet :
>
> Have a look at sites where guys are using the laser from a DVD (notCD)
> burner. By upping the voltage, it looks like you can cut thin plastic sheet.
> And you should be able to get a few for free!

Thanks! Actually that was the first thing I considered. Lasers from
blu-ray writers would be even better, but then I would need to make
enclosure, tweak power supply to limit max current and in the end the
output power would be around 300mW, which would mean very slow work.
Yes, that would be very cost-effective, but I suspect that my client
would not be satisfied with the performance - I already told not to
expect anything close to "normal" laser engravers, but I think that
that would be too slow.

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] Tool offset and cutter comp, confused

2011-10-22 Thread Chris Radek
On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 01:09:27PM -0700, Bruce Klawiter wrote:
> 
> >I find the tool table editor box to be a bit counterintuitive. You
> need to press the "write" button, then close the editor, or you end up
> with several editor boxes in the background.
> 
> Even if I press the "write" button and close the "tool table" the ppmc.tbl 
> file gets written back to what it was when I opened EMC/Axis.

After you change the tool table manually, you must invoke
File/Reload Tool Table to tell EMC you changed it.

Also consider using G10 L1 to change the tool table, which lets you
do it in one step.

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Re: [Emc-users] Tool offset and cutter comp, confused

2011-10-22 Thread Bruce Klawiter

>I find the tool table editor box to be a bit counterintuitive. You
need to press the "write" button, then close the editor, or you end up
with several editor boxes in the background.

Even if I press the "write" button and close the "tool table" the ppmc.tbl file 
gets written back to what it was when I opened EMC/Axis.

OK I just went and checked, if I have the ppmc.tbl file open and I start 
EMC/Axis and run a program without ever calling up the tool table menu and then 
run a program I have to reload the ppmc.tbl because it has been overwritten.  

Any ideas of why if I try to do this with EMC/tkemc I can not open the tool 
table window or the calibration window.


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Re: [Emc-users] and now for something completely different---visualizing EMC2 configurations

2011-10-22 Thread Kent A. Reed
On 10/22/2011 10:47 AM, Andrea Montefusco wrote:
> Hi Kent, all,
>
> another example of a software similar to what you are developing is GNU Radio 
> Companion.
>
> http://www.joshknows.com/grc
>
> Albeit it is from a totally unrelated field (digital radio and DSP), this 
> software too deals with
> blocks, wires and so on.
> Moreover it generates python code that implements the interconnections that 
> the user draws,
> producing a fully functional Python program.
> It is written in Python with pygtk.
>
> http://gnuradio.org/redmine/projects/gnuradio/repository/revisions/96a20bb09dc6b07b3d2651645e579dff6c3f3a45/entry/grc/
>
> Just my 0.02 EU.
>
>
>   *am*
>
Well, nuts.

Here I was trying to avoid thinking about graphical programming of emc2 
configurations (I just want to document them) AND trying to keep from 
getting involved in software radio (I was a fledgling amateur radio 
operator by 15 and sat for my commercial radiotelephone and 
radiotelegraph license exams before I got out of high school---I left 
radio behind years ago but still have a yen, in the manner of a 
'reformed' smoker).

Thanks for the link, Andrea, I think:-)

Regards,
Kent


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Re: [Emc-users] Laser diode for engraving

2011-10-22 Thread andy pugh
On 22 October 2011 18:11, Viesturs Lācis  wrote:

> http://stores.ebay.com/electronictoysshop

That case is identical to a power resisistor case, even the same
colour in the video.
Which is actually quite a clever idea.

-- 
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"Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"

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Re: [Emc-users] Laser diode for engraving

2011-10-22 Thread Viesturs Lācis
2011/10/22 Roland Jollivet :
>
> Have a look at sites where guys are using the laser from a DVD (notCD)
> burner. By upping the voltage, it looks like you can cut thin plastic sheet.
> And you should be able to get a few for free!

Thanks! Actually that was the first thing I considered. Lasers from
blu-ray writers would be even better, but then I would need to make
enclosure, tweak power supply to limit max current and in the end the
output power would be around 300mW, which would mean very slow work.
Yes, that would be very cost-effective, but I suspect that my client
would not be satisfied with the performance - I already told not to
expect anything close to "normal" laser engravers, but I think that
that would be too slow.

Viesturs

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[Emc-users] Laser diode for engraving

2011-10-22 Thread Roland Jollivet
On 22 October 2011 19:11, Viesturs Lācis  wrote:

> 2011/10/22 Jon Elson :
> > charles green wrote:
> >> most diodes can actually hit 30%-50% electrical to optical efficiency.
> >>
> > 50%?  I think that is physically impossible, due to the nature of a
> > population inversion.
>
> Thanks, guys, for Your input!
> I think that I found acceptable solution, this seller has reasonably
> priced lasers and seems that they provide complete solution, which
> just needs to be connected to 12 VDC power:
> http://stores.ebay.com/electronictoysshop
> Their webpage:
> http://www.kalecnc.com/
>
> With regards to laser efficiency, these are power consumption data for
> their 0,7W laser:
> Operating Current  :  1100  mA
> Operating Voltage  :  10 - 12 Vdc
> As You can see, it is below 10%.
>
> Viesturs
>
>
Have a look at sites where guys are using the laser from a DVD (notCD)
burner. By upping the voltage, it looks like you can cut thin plastic sheet.
And you should be able to get a few for free!

Regards
Roland
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Re: [Emc-users] Laser diode for engraving

2011-10-22 Thread Viesturs Lācis
2011/10/22 Jon Elson :
> charles green wrote:
>> most diodes can actually hit 30%-50% electrical to optical efficiency.
>>
> 50%?  I think that is physically impossible, due to the nature of a
> population inversion.

Thanks, guys, for Your input!
I think that I found acceptable solution, this seller has reasonably
priced lasers and seems that they provide complete solution, which
just needs to be connected to 12 VDC power:
http://stores.ebay.com/electronictoysshop
Their webpage:
http://www.kalecnc.com/

With regards to laser efficiency, these are power consumption data for
their 0,7W laser:
Operating Current  :  1100  mA
Operating Voltage  :  10 - 12 Vdc
As You can see, it is below 10%.

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] How do I stop this damn dithering, oscillation

2011-10-22 Thread Jon Elson
Bruce Klawiter wrote:
> OK it appears I have my servos tuned as good as they are going to get.
> See images 5, 6 and 7: https://sites.google.com/site/bmklawt/home/pid-tuning
> Adding any I or D to any axis make things worse to violent.
>
>   
> Anyway I have terrible oscillation or dithering on the Z axis and if I move 
> the axis a bit the dithering changes, how can I stop this.
>   
Well, you should use some D.  You may have to start with values as low 
as .01 and work your way
up.  There will be a valley that gives the best results.  Definitely too 
much D causes oscillation.
Also a little deadband can help the system settle when idle.

BUT, there is a limit to how well it can do.  Any servo needs to hunt.  
If you have an encoder
with 50,000 counts/inch, then a jitter of +/- one encoder count will be 
almost undetectable.
On your machine, the encoder count is 10 um is approximately .0004" 
which is a lot.

The only advice I might give is to reduce P so you can put a little D on 
it, and then tighten
up the following error with FF1 and FF2, if needed.

But, your situation is why I always tell people who want to use cheap 
linear scales with
DRO-class resolution that they will run into exactly this problem.  You 
say the old
Anilam control did not have this problem, but I will BET that it also 
did not achieve
as tight a following error as you are now achieving.  That is the 
downfall, if you want
tight position control, you get dithering.  If you turn the P way down, 
the dithering
becomes a sluggish crawl back and forth that is undetectable, but the 
following error
is not kept small.

Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Laser diode for engraving

2011-10-22 Thread Jon Elson
charles green wrote:
> most diodes can actually hit 30%-50% electrical to optical efficiency.
>   
50%?  I think that is physically impossible, due to the nature of a 
population inversion.
Maybe with Q-switched lasers or something, but not a CW diode.  You put 20 W
DC in and get 10 W of light?  Can you point me to a data sheet for such 
a device?

(Maybe I've been away from this sort of gear for too long, and there are 
real
developments, but I have my doubts.)

And, I've seen all sorts of impossible claims in Chinese laser blurbs, 
but they
are clearly lies.  Stuff like 5 V at 100 mA gives 1 W output!

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] and now for something completely different---visualizing EMC2 configurations

2011-10-22 Thread Thomas Powderly
Hi Kent, all,

I found the gnuradio stuff a while back, and put it in the 'cool
graphing collection' with others.

1) what IS this idea called?, this gui connected block draggable
zoomable concept called?
   i now its part of graph theory, but this is specialized, its in
every eda and plumbing package.
   it seems there'd be a name for this discipline, something
searchable, learnable

2) how do you begin untangling this bit from the main program to make
it a standalone tool?
   (besides its always some new language like LUA or PL3 or C#-+ ;)

3) didja see grasshopper for gmax ( 3D cam behind CNCtoolkit ?)
   http://modelab.nu/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/ListManagement.jpg
  theres some wicked guis out there for this connected block stuff

i been looking at this graphing for years, part of my love of maps & links

regards tomp

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Re: [Emc-users] and now for something completely different---visualizing EMC2 configurations

2011-10-22 Thread gene heskett
On Saturday, October 22, 2011 11:24:09 AM Andrea Montefusco did opine:

> Hi Kent, all,
> 
> another example of a software similar to what you are developing is GNU
> Radio Companion.
> 
> http://www.joshknows.com/grc
> 
> Albeit it is from a totally unrelated field (digital radio and DSP),
> this software too deals with blocks, wires and so on.
> Moreover it generates python code that implements the interconnections
> that the user draws, producing a fully functional Python program.
> It is written in Python with pygtk.
> 
> http://gnuradio.org/redmine/projects/gnuradio/repository/revisions/96a20
> bb09dc6b07b3d2651645e579dff6c3f3a45/entry/grc/
> 
> Just my 0.02 EU.
> 
> 
>  *am*
Andrea:  This bit of codes ability to graph the connections would, if 
translated to do the same for ones USB tree, be an informative, handier 
than bottled beer, utility for linux.  We do, or did have, a utility 
called usbtree that did something similar with tabs and the text output 
of lsusb, but that seems not to have kept pace with usb development and 
has been dropped from many distros.  I have a copy and its output looks 
like this:

[gene@coyote bin]$ ./usbtree
/: Bus 02.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Drv=ohci_hcd/10p, 12M
|_ Port 1: Dev 2, If 0, Prod=USB Receiver, Class=HID, Drv=usbhid, 1.5M
|_ Port 1: Dev 2, If 1, Prod=, Class=HID, Drv=usbhid, 1.5M
|_ Port 9: Dev 3, If 0, Prod=Belkin UPS, Class=HID, Drv=usbhid, 1.5M
/: Bus 01.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Drv=ehci_hcd/10p, 480M
|_ Port 2: Dev 3, If 0, Prod=, Class=hub, Drv=hub/4p, 480M
|_ Port 3: Dev 8, If 0, Prod=USB FAST SERIAL ADAPTER, Class=vend., 
Drv=ftdi_sio, 12M
|_ Port 5: Dev 48, If 0, Prod=USB2.0 Hub, Class=hub, Drv=hub/4p, 480M
|_ Port 2: Dev 52, If 0, Prod=EPSON Scanner 010F, Class=vend., 
Drv=none, 12M
|_ Port 4: Dev 49, If 0, Prod=USB2.0 Hub, Class=hub, Drv=hub/4p, 480M
|_ Port 3: Dev 51, If 0, Prod=USB2.0 MFP Hi-Speed, Class=vend., 
Drv=none, 480M
|_ Port 3: Dev 51, If 1, Prod=, Class=print, Drv=usblp, 480M
|_ Port 3: Dev 51, If 2, Prod=, Class=stor., Drv=usb-storage, 480M
|_ Port 6: Dev 53, If 0, Prod=USB 2.0 Hub [MTT], Class=hub, Drv=hub/4p, 480M
|_ Port 4: Dev 54, If 0, Prod=USB 2.0 Hub [MTT], Class=hub, Drv=hub/7p, 
480M
|_ Port 7: Dev 55, If 0, Prod=USB 2.0 Hub, Class=hub, Drv=hub/4p, 
480M

Usable, but the graphic display would be even nicer.

That last, port 6 branch blows me away.  I had ordered some "more better"
cables to reach some things in the basement, along with a 10 port hub,
all USB 2.0, with the cables purportedly to be 5 meters or 16 feet.
Which is about 4 feet short to reach the middle of the pile on that desk.
Imagine my surprise to see that they were 10 meters long when I opened the
$8.95 bag!

But that port 6 is one of those 10 meter, 33 foot, cables and its all 
signing on as 480M connections.  IMO someone has been to school and studied
up on radio tech involving transmission lines & VSWR to be able to pull
that off.

What I originally bought 4 or 5 years ago for that job, 15 footers, were 
flaky at best at 12M.  Needless to say, they will be retired as soon as I 
am healthy again & feel like stuffing cable through holes in floor
joists etc.

I (& 3 others) arrived in Cinci to tear down & pack that transmitter
with the makings of a cold which has since turned into the real thing.
The transmitter was only about 12k lbs, which we reduced to under 1000lb
pieces we could move with a pallet jack, but we pretty well cubed out a
26' Penski van box & I have a few hundred lbs of copper stuff in the back
of my pickup yet.  Both rode real well coming home.  But we will need a
bulldozer tow to get that puny powered van to the top of the hill its
headed for.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Positive, adj.:
Mistaken at the top of one's voice.
-- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"

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Re: [Emc-users] and now for something completely different---visualizing EMC2 configurations

2011-10-22 Thread Andrea Montefusco
Hi Kent, all,

another example of a software similar to what you are developing is GNU Radio 
Companion.

http://www.joshknows.com/grc

Albeit it is from a totally unrelated field (digital radio and DSP), this 
software too deals with 
blocks, wires and so on.
Moreover it generates python code that implements the interconnections that the 
user draws, 
producing a fully functional Python program.
It is written in Python with pygtk.

http://gnuradio.org/redmine/projects/gnuradio/repository/revisions/96a20bb09dc6b07b3d2651645e579dff6c3f3a45/entry/grc/

Just my 0.02 EU.


 *am*

-
Andrea Montefusco iw0hdvhttp://www.montefusco.com
tel: +393356992791 fax: +390623318709
-

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Re: [Emc-users] CAM program

2011-10-22 Thread Chris Reynolds
I tried loading NCPlot in ubuntu today using the wine application and it seems 
to work, slightly buggy but fully functional. That was the main program that I 
was concerned with because it's the program I use most for 2D code creation. 
I'll give MeshCAM a try tomorrow and see how that one works. 

Chris
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Re: [Emc-users] Tool offset and cutter comp, confused

2011-10-22 Thread andy pugh
On 22 October 2011 06:10, Bruce Klawiter  wrote:
> If my ppmc.tbl file says that Tool 1, is D.100 and after I start EMC/Axis, I 
> either MDI T1M6 or the program does I can see that the tool information is 
> displayed in the Axis interface.

Don't forget the G43.

> If I run a program with G41 it does pick up cutter comp, now if I open the 
> tool table from within the Axis interface and change the diameter of Tool 1 
> to D.01 it does write that information to the ppmc.tbl file.

I find the tool table editor box to be a bit counterintuitive. You
need to press the "write" button, then close the editor, or you end up
with several editor boxes in the background. When you select "edit
tool table" you seem to get another instance of the tool table editor,
not the existing one brought to the foreground. This might be
version-dependent, and I am not sure which version my machine is on
(it's a semi-random build from source)

-- 
atp
"Torque wrenches are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"

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