Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

[Jon Elson]

gene heskett wrote:
> This effect was discussed at length when we made the first 'test' cases for 
> our tv cameras out of alu we had cad plated back in 1960 and discovered 
> that no amount of cad plating could protect them from 8 hours over the side 
> of an LST 50 miles west of San Diego.
I am NOT disputing that aluminum oxidizes and corrodes, only that the 
thin film of oxide
is NOT a huge impediment to milling, and that you need to do all 
aluminum milling
submerged in an oxygen barrier.
> However, this does lead to the question:
>
> Is there a calculator, online or downloadable that will tell one the ball 
> park correct feedrate for a given bit and depth of cut at x rpms?  I would 
> have far less problems with my un-SWAG methods of doing this if I had a 
> good, known to be safe, starting point.
>   
I have these slide-rule type gadgets from McDonnell-Douglas that I got 
at a local
scrap yard.  But, there are some calculators.  I have used Mr. Machinst, 
but I think
my trial copy timed out.  http://www.mrmachinist.net/
I just checked, it seems to still have the feed rate, etc. calculator.

The basics I use, even without the slide rule, is that plunge should 
never exceed 1/2
the end mill diameter, and then in softer stuff the feed per tooth should be
around .010" per inch of tool diameter.  So, for a 1/8" end mill, it should
be .00125" per tooth.  At 2500 RPM with a 4-flute cutter, then you get
12.5 IPM.  For your 1/16" cutter, you should be around 6 IPM for
the .030" plunge, but I'm conservative, so I'd keep the plunge to
.020" and maybe feed around 5 IPM.  Keep the slot clear of chips,
so use the minimum of cutting oil if you are not flooding it, and
either keep brushing the chips away or blast it with air.  The above
may sound confusing.  What you want to do is keep the chips from
recutting.  So, either use minimum oil and brushing or air, or a FLOW
of some coolant that carries the chips away.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

[gene heskett]

On Tuesday, February 14, 2012 12:53:29 AM Mark Cason did opine:

> On 02/13/2012 10:03 PM, gene heskett wrote:
> > On Monday, February 13, 2012 10:21:08 PM Jon Elson did opine:
> >> gene heskett wrote:
> >>> Guy's, maybe I don't understand cutting alu as well as I thought.
> >>> 
> >>> All along, I have believed that it was more important to keep the
> >>> oxygen in the air away from the cutting surface in order to slow the
> >>> formation of alu oxide on the surface, which in normal air, not
> >>> blown, can get a good start in 0.001 seconds
> >> 
> >> I have some doubts about this.  The oxide will form unless you run
> >> under Argon shielding,
> >> which may not be real practical.
> > 
> > Nitrogen should work equally well since the idea is to flood away the
> > oxygen.  And its 99% cheaper.
> 
>Not exactly, Nitrogen can react with the magnesium in various
> alloys,   There's a reason why noble gases, specifically Argon, and
> Helium are used as shielding gases.  The only exception is CO2, where
> it's used in welding.

There, particularly in a mig setup, its main reason is to add its carbon to 
the puddle, hardening the weld.  Same effect as firing up your Smith Wrench 
and running a long central feather in the flame by reducing the oxygen flow 
a wee bit.  You can make very very good welding rod out of a pile of coat 
hangers that way.  ;-)  But you don't have the control over the carbon 
added that way in comparison to the Smith Wrench, that is almost unlimited.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
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My web page: 
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Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

[Jon Elson]

gene heskett wrote:
>>
>> Roland Jollivet  wrote:
>> 
>>>
>> Taken directly from the OSG 2-3 flute carbide end mill section.
>>
>>  dia rpm feed (ipm)
>>  .01510  7.1
>>  .02062000   7.9
>>  0.034   7.9
>>  0.0625  21200   7.9
>>  5/6416000   11.8
>>
>>  depth
>>  < 1/32  .25D
>>  1/32 -> 5/640.5D
>>
>>  scaling those spindle  speeds gives more like .8 ipm and 0.03"
>> depth/pass.
>>
>> 
> So that is saying that my 1.5 ipm @ 2500 revs was still too fast by a 
> factor of 2?
>
>   
ONLY if you were using the .030" plunge per pass (half tool diameter), and a
2 or 3-flute cutter.  But, you were using a 4-flute cutter at .005" 
plunge, so
that would allow you to go much faster.

I really only know the numbers by gut feel with 1/8" end mills, but I 
run 10 - 15
IPM on those with about .050" plunge.  I do run a bit slower when "plowing"
full width, though.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

[Mark Cason]

On 02/13/2012 10:03 PM, gene heskett wrote:
> On Monday, February 13, 2012 10:21:08 PM Jon Elson did opine:
>
>> gene heskett wrote:
>>> Guy's, maybe I don't understand cutting alu as well as I thought.
>>>
>>> All along, I have believed that it was more important to keep the
>>> oxygen in the air away from the cutting surface in order to slow the
>>> formation of alu oxide on the surface, which in normal air, not
>>> blown, can get a good start in 0.001 seconds
>> I have some doubts about this.  The oxide will form unless you run under
>> Argon shielding,
>> which may not be real practical.
> Nitrogen should work equally well since the idea is to flood away the
> oxygen.  And its 99% cheaper.

   Not exactly, Nitrogen can react with the magnesium in various 
alloys,   There's a reason why noble gases, specifically Argon, and 
Helium are used as shielding gases.  The only exception is CO2, where 
it's used in welding.

-- 
-Mark

Ne M'oubliez   ---Family Motto
Hope for the best, plan for the worst   ---Personal Motto


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Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

[gene heskett]

On Monday, February 13, 2012 11:04:19 PM Dean Hedin did opine:

> Yep, sorry, thought they had the high helix in the small size.
> They do have pretty good prices otherwise.  I've bought quite a bit of
> stuff from them in the past and had good experience.  - NVI
> 
> Get the short flute length if you can tolerate it.
> 
Well, I've fooled around and lost today running down some suitable brass 
for the next attempt, but I'll get some ordered tomorrow, as short as they 
have.

Thanks Dean.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
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My web page: 
Heisenberg may have been here.

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Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

[gene heskett]

On Monday, February 13, 2012 10:21:08 PM Jon Elson did opine:

> gene heskett wrote:
> > Guy's, maybe I don't understand cutting alu as well as I thought.
> > 
> > All along, I have believed that it was more important to keep the
> > oxygen in the air away from the cutting surface in order to slow the
> > formation of alu oxide on the surface, which in normal air, not
> > blown, can get a good start in 0.001 seconds
> 
> I have some doubts about this.  The oxide will form unless you run under
> Argon shielding,
> which may not be real practical.

Nitrogen should work equally well since the idea is to flood away the 
oxygen.  And its 99% cheaper.
 
> >  This oxide is also the 2nd
> > 
> > hardest substance known to man and can take the edge off a carbide
> > tool that has to cut thru it in seconds under the right set of wrong
> > cutting params, which my slow feed made worse.
> 
> Any slow cutting so that the tool is barely getting below the surface
> increases wear.
> Taking the biggest cuts the tool can survive reduces tool wear by
> removing more
> workpiece material with each cut.
> 
> > Sealing the cut surface against the air and its oxygen, blown or
> > otherwise, that causes this instant alu oxide film with its
> > subsequent wear on the cutting tool has always been the reason for my
> > use of a cutting oil, deep enough to flood and seal the surface, or
> > misted, particularly when I don't have the spindle rpms to throw it
> > away from the cut.
> 
> Our shop at work does ALL aluminum dry, and usually use HSS cutters
> (although possibly
> they may be M42 or such cobalt cutters.)  So, I think you are going WAY
> overboard
> with this oxide thing.
> 
> > The majority of the heat you are referring to is not the heat of the
> > tools cutting action, but is the result of the chemical reaction that
> > forms this alu oxide film so rapidly.
> 
> OH, COME ON!  Where do you GET this stuff?  Yes, oxidation is
> exothermic, but really.

This effect was discussed at length when we made the first 'test' cases for 
our tv cameras out of alu we had cad plated back in 1960 and discovered 
that no amount of cad plating could protect them from 8 hours over the side 
of an LST 50 miles west of San Diego. 3/4" thick cases came back to shore 
with 1/2" deep corrosion pits from the salt water exposure. In 8 hours. 
None of those fancy, khaki colored Amphenol connectors survived either.  So 
we wound up buying a $25,000 (in 1959 dollars too!) Clausen lathe and 
making all that stuff that was going on the Trieste for its dive into the 
mohole in Feb '60, out of a bronze alloy the navy said would work.  The 
lathe wasn't straight, and it took Clausen techs about 3 weeks to get it to 
both turn and bore that bronze, solid rod 8" in diameter to within a thou 
of taper in the 20" we needed to contain the camera, which was itself only 
2.5" in diameter.  I think in the end they were even holding seances over 
it.

All that leads up to the machinist, trying to get that last half a thou to 
a perfect fit, had the alu marching right along in the smaller 10 foot 
lathe, and had to stop suddenly as the chip string coming off his tool was 
actually burning about 4 to 6" away from the tool.  All this took place 
about 20 feet from the bench where I was busy assembling serial number 3.  
Something about the smoke made us open the windows and clear the building 
for a smoke of our own for about 10 minutes.

> Shave some aluminum with an X-acto knife and see if you can detect this
> heating!
> I seriously doubt you can detect it.

Nope, not near enough mass to measure.

> Rubbing of the tool when it is
> having trouble
> digging below the material is the largest source of heat, next is the
> heating of the
> chips as they are curled up.  That heat should not get to the remaining
> workpiece
> material when things are done at the right speed, but we both have that
> problem
> of limited spindle RPM.
> 
> > That is my take on it.  How right or wrong am I?
> 
> Sorry, I think your theory is full of holes.  Many shops cut aluminum
> dry, some at
> insane rates.  I read a book on high-speed machining, they were cutting
> aluminum
> at 640 cubic inches a minute removal rate, putting 80 HP into a 1/2"
> end mill at 75,000 RPM.

That is 0.37037037037 cubic feet of material removed in a minute?  I can 
see why it took an 80HP spindle.

> This was done dry, as no coolant could reach
> the cutting are due to the bullet-like spray of chips coming out. 
> Also, the thermal
> shock was harder on the carbide than running dry.

I have seen discussions of that source of edge cracking in carbide.  If its 
allowed to run hot, that helps its life.
 
> I cut a fair amount of it dry, and get excellent tool life either with
> M42 Cobalt
> cutters in the larger sizes, and solid carbide in the 1/8" size.  I do
> use water-based
> coolant when I am doing a lot of cutting in a small area to prevent
> heating of
> the workpiece, or when there is a lot of material

Re: [Emc-users] Gladevcp question, mdi command widget

[Tom Easterday]

On Feb 13, 2012, at 10:14 PM, Chris Morley wrote:
> Tom
> 
> What version on EMC are you using and how long ago has it been updated?
> I have a cursor in my MDI history widget and I think it's because Michael 
> added a fix to gladevcp.
> 
> If you are using master then that fix has not made it there yet.

Chris,
I am using the 2.5 branch pre-release from the buildbot.
-Tom


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Re: [Emc-users] Gladevcp question, mdi command widget

[Tom Easterday]

On Feb 13, 2012, at 10:14 PM, Chris Morley wrote:
> Tom
> 
> What version on EMC are you using and how long ago has it been updated?
> I have a cursor in my MDI history widget and I think it's because Michael 
> added a fix to gladevcp.
> 
> If you are using master then that fix has not made it there yet.

ps: updated this morning
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Re: [Emc-users] Gladevcp question, mdi command widget

[Chris Morley]

> I see that there an MDI command widget in Glade.  We were just complaining 
> that it is a shame that Axis has a manual tab and an MDI tab that are 
> separate.  If I want to be able to jog in MDI mode, why not?  There should be 
> one screen to control everything.  Anyway, I went to Gladevcp and found the 
> MDI widget and put that in my panel panel.  It works to issue MDI commands 
> and even keeps history, yay. However, I can't see a cursor there. I can type 
> in the window and the characters appear, but I don't know where I am typing 
> because there is no cursor.  I tried turning on/off various  settings for the 
> MDI object but nothing seemed to help.  I am just missing the magic option or 
> is this a (lack of) feature of the MDI widget?
> Tom

Tom

What version on EMC are you using and how long ago has it been updated?
I have a cursor in my MDI history widget and I think it's because Michael added 
a fix to gladevcp.

If you are using master then that fix has not made it there yet.

Chris M
  
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Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

[Przemek Klosowski]

On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 5:23 PM, dave  wrote:

>
>        I did find a Russian video using alcohol for cooling.

I am not surprised---and I am sure that gherkins and bacon were involved too

(an old joke from where I grew up:
Medical team in an operating theater, lights, lots of surgical tools,
people quietly doing their work. The operating surgeon calls out to
the instrument nurse:

Large scalpel...

Small scalpel...

Alcohol...

Extractor...

Forceps...

Alcohol...

Sutures

Alcohol...

Gherkin...

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Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

[Dean Hedin]

Yep, sorry, thought they had the high helix in the small size.
They do have pretty good prices otherwise.  I've bought quite a bit of stuff
from them in the past and had good experience.  - NVI

Get the short flute length if you can tolerate it.

-Original Message-
From: Mark Cason [mailto:farmerboy1...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 2:24 AM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

On 02/13/2012 12:21 AM, gene heskett wrote:
>> I have their 2011/12 catalog, and it shows 1/8" as their smallest high
>> helix carbide cutter.
> If the price is good, then it might worth downloading the catalog, but its
> about 150 megs so I killed that download.  Is the price right? say under
> $15/copy?  Oh wait, you said 1/8 was the smallest.  Won't work.
>
> Thanks Mark.
>
> Cheers, Gene
   The PDF on their site is the old 2010/11 catalog.  I have a paper 
copy.  They have some 2 flute solid carbide end mills.

Regular length - 1/16" dia x 1/4" flute length.  1/8" shank x 1-1/2" 
overall length:
uncoated - 415-0970 - $5.67
ALTIN coated - 415-1007 - $6.51

Stub length - 1/16" dia x 1/8" flute length.  1/8" shank x 1-1/2" OAL:
uncoated - 415-0398 - $4.03
ALTIN coated - 415-0415 - $5.26

3xDiameter Miniature - 0.062" dia x 0.186" flute length.  0.125" shank x 
1-1/2" OAL:
uncoated - 415-2232 - $9.18
ALTIN coated 415-2286 - $11.03

1.5xD Miniature - 0.062" dia x 0.093" flute length.  0.125" shank x 
1-1/2" OAL:
uncoated - 415-2871 - $10.57
ALTIN coated - 415-2896 - $12.68

You should be able to type the part #'s into their site.  When you order 
something in a medium sized, or larger box, they drop in a catalog.  
Hope this helps.

-- 
-Mark

Ne M'oubliez   ---Family Motto
Hope for the best, plan for the worst   ---Personal Motto



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Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

[Jon Elson]

gene heskett wrote:
>
>  
> Guy's, maybe I don't understand cutting alu as well as I thought.
>
> All along, I have believed that it was more important to keep the oxygen in 
> the air away from the cutting surface in order to slow the formation of alu 
> oxide on the surface, which in normal air, not blown, can get a good start 
> in 0.001 seconds
I have some doubts about this.  The oxide will form unless you run under 
Argon shielding,
which may not be real practical. 
>  This oxide is also the 2nd 
> hardest substance known to man and can take the edge off a carbide tool 
> that has to cut thru it in seconds under the right set of wrong cutting 
> params, which my slow feed made worse.
Any slow cutting so that the tool is barely getting below the surface 
increases wear.
Taking the biggest cuts the tool can survive reduces tool wear by 
removing more
workpiece material with each cut.
> Sealing the cut surface against the air and its oxygen, blown or otherwise, 
> that causes this instant alu oxide film with its subsequent wear on the 
> cutting tool has always been the reason for my use of a cutting oil, deep 
> enough to flood and seal the surface, or misted, particularly when I don't 
> have the spindle rpms to throw it away from the cut.
Our shop at work does ALL aluminum dry, and usually use HSS cutters 
(although possibly
they may be M42 or such cobalt cutters.)  So, I think you are going WAY 
overboard
with this oxide thing.
> The majority of the heat you are referring to is not the heat of the tools 
> cutting action, but is the result of the chemical reaction that forms this 
> alu oxide film so rapidly.
OH, COME ON!  Where do you GET this stuff?  Yes, oxidation is 
exothermic, but really.
Shave some aluminum with an X-acto knife and see if you can detect this 
heating!
I seriously doubt you can detect it.  Rubbing of the tool when it is 
having trouble
digging below the material is the largest source of heat, next is the 
heating of the
chips as they are curled up.  That heat should not get to the remaining 
workpiece
material when things are done at the right speed, but we both have that 
problem
of limited spindle RPM.
> That is my take on it.  How right or wrong am I?
>   
Sorry, I think your theory is full of holes.  Many shops cut aluminum 
dry, some at
insane rates.  I read a book on high-speed machining, they were cutting 
aluminum
at 640 cubic inches a minute removal rate, putting 80 HP into a 1/2"
end mill at 75,000 RPM.  This was done dry, as no coolant could reach the
cutting are due to the bullet-like spray of chips coming out.  Also, the 
thermal
shock was harder on the carbide than running dry.

I cut a fair amount of it dry, and get excellent tool life either with 
M42 Cobalt
cutters in the larger sizes, and solid carbide in the 1/8" size.  I do 
use water-based
coolant when I am doing a lot of cutting in a small area to prevent 
heating of
the workpiece, or when there is a lot of material to remove.  I can 
often run
for days on one tool.

And, don't ignore climb milling, it makes a HUGE improvement in tool
life.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

[gene heskett]

On Monday, February 13, 2012 08:59:31 PM dave did opine:

> On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 22:09:47 +0200
> 
> Roland Jollivet  wrote:
> > On 13 February 2012 21:38, gene heskett  wrote:
> > > On Monday, February 13, 2012 02:24:49 PM Roland Jollivet did opine:
> > > > ..snip
> > > > 
> > > > I would imagine... that the oxide layer is way way thinner than a
> > > > micron in thickness, and while tough as you say, in climb milling
> > > > the cutter tip will hit the metal and with the eggshell effect,
> > > > simply push past the oxide layer.
> >
> >
> 
> Taken directly from the OSG 2-3 flute carbide end mill section.
> 
>   dia rpm feed (ipm)
>   .01510  7.1
>   .02062000   7.9
>   0.034   7.9
>   0.0625  21200   7.9
>   5/6416000   11.8
> 
>   depth
>   < 1/32  .25D
>   1/32 -> 5/640.5D
> 
>   scaling those spindle  speeds gives more like .8 ipm and 0.03"
> depth/pass.
> 
So that is saying that my 1.5 ipm @ 2500 revs was still too fast by a 
factor of 2?

Hum.  Next one will be brass, I got a small sheet at the hobby stop for 
$8 today, then stopped at ACE to see if they had any more info on that 
cutting oil they sell (no) and stumbled over a 8x34" sheet of solid brass 
kick plate about .032 thick for a $30 bill, so both came home with me.

>   FWIW: Boeing uses copious amounts of emulsifiable oil in
>   cutting Al. Think fire hose type flows for a wing spar.

I've seen videos of such.  Zero chance of a recut. :)
 
>   I did find a Russian video using alcohol for cooling. However,
>   if it flashes then you're toast. Alcohol also burns with a
>   almost colorless flame.

And even with CO2 extinguishers, damned hard to put out, we had to hit a 
fuel burning dragster 3 times one afternoon in the pits at Cordova IL 
during an ATAA nationals meet in the late '50's.  In bright sunlight, your 
only clue is a fuel line looking like a large diameter piece of dynamite 
fuse, bubbling and boiling along without noticeable smoke.  Spooky.  We 
used up 3 CO2 extinguishers in about half an hour before it was put out for 
good.  They had a 160mph machine but couldn't get it back to the tree in 
time for the next heat, so Koch & Bedwell's machine got that heat by 
default.  Then Don Garlits took the next round by 2 or 3 feet at the traps.


>   Looking at heat of vaporization:
> 
>   materialJ/g
> 
>   water   2257
>   methanol1100
>   ethanol 846
>   propanol779
> 
>   Of course you have to boil it off to get that removal of heat.
>   Ventilation for the organics would be more than just advisable.
> 
>   It looks much safer to stay with emulsifiable oil.
> 
>   Keep kicking at it, you'll get there.
> 
> Dave
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Cheers, Gene
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What I am doing,
As I am heading for the sink.
I am spitting out all the bitterness,
Along with half of my last drink.

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[Emc-users] Gladevcp question, mdi command widget

[Tom Easterday]

I see that there an MDI command widget in Glade.  We were just complaining that 
it is a shame that Axis has a manual tab and an MDI tab that are separate.  If 
I want to be able to jog in MDI mode, why not?  There should be one screen to 
control everything.  Anyway, I went to Gladevcp and found the MDI widget and 
put that in my panel panel.  It works to issue MDI commands and even keeps 
history, yay. However, I can't see a cursor there. I can type in the window and 
the characters appear, but I don't know where I am typing because there is no 
cursor.  I tried turning on/off various  settings for the MDI object but 
nothing seemed to help.  I am just missing the magic option or is this a (lack 
of) feature of the MDI widget?
Tom
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Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

[gene heskett]

On Monday, February 13, 2012 08:17:33 PM Roland Jollivet did opine:

> But.. you can take almost any piece aluminium lying around (not
> anodised), lightly touch it with the blunt rounded side of two
> crocodile clips, and you'll measure a few milliohms. What happened to
> the oxide layer? It's so thin that a few mN of pressure tore through
> it.
> 
> Regards
> Roland

Chuckle. :) Now do this, Roland, clip two small clip leads to that piece of 
alu sheet, and measure the ohms, likely very low, and write it on the alu 
with the usual magic marker.  Carefully set that sheet, clips and all, up 
on a shelf for 6 months, then without disturbing those clips, measure from 
the other ends of those clip leads 6 months later.

Those clips teeth do not have what it takes to make a "gas tight" 
connection, and sitting there clipped without being disturbed will 
demonstrate why I inspect the wiring in any building I contemplate sleeping 
in for 3 nights in a row.  If its a house I'm thinking about buying, and I 
find alu wire anyplace in the service, no deal unless the seller wants to 
replace it with copper, on his dime, before I sign on the dotted line.  I 
will not buy a time bomb.  An alu related and caused fire occurred in the 
service box, 8 feet from the bed I was sleeping in back in the '70's, but I 
recognized the sound, and had what it took to go rip the meter out of its 
socket and fix it temporarily, at 2am in a 20 below Nebraska night.  The 
next day I "borrowed" a foot of copper cable from the tv station I was in 
charge of, and replaced that foot of alu range cable some idiot who 
probably had an electricians card in his wallet put in when that old 
farmhouse was wired 15 years back up the log.

That could, had I not awoke from the buzzing, have been a fatal fire for 
the whole family of 11 that night, and its a lesson not easily forgotten.

11?  Yeah, her 3, my 3, and our 3 plus the two of us.

Technically, ripping the seal off the meter is a felony in Nebraska, so 
when I called Ron, the super at Wayne County Public Power & asked him to 
come by and put a new seal on my homes meter after doing the fix the next 
day, Ron was understandably curious as to the reason he had to record a new 
seal number on my meter.  But, since the tv station I was then in charge of 
was his largest customer by a factor of 4 or 5 (30 kw UHF transmitters in 
those days were klystrons and used around 225 kw/h during the broadcast 
day), we were already good friends so nothing more was said.

Hey Ed, here's another "war story" for your "larval engineer". ;-)

Cheers, Gene
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My web page: 
I am the mother of all things, and all things should wear a sweater.

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Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

[dave]

On Mon, 13 Feb 2012 22:09:47 +0200
Roland Jollivet  wrote:

> On 13 February 2012 21:38, gene heskett  wrote:
> 
> > On Monday, February 13, 2012 02:24:49 PM Roland Jollivet did opine:
> >
> > > ..snip
> > >
> > > I would imagine... that the oxide layer is way way thinner than a
> > > micron in thickness, and while tough as you say, in climb milling
> > > the cutter tip will hit the metal and with the eggshell effect,
> > > simply push past the oxide layer.
>
Taken directly from the OSG 2-3 flute carbide end mill section.

dia rpm feed (ipm)
.01510  7.1
.02062000   7.9
0.034   7.9
0.0625  21200   7.9
5/6416000   11.8

depth   
< 1/32  .25D
1/32 -> 5/640.5D

scaling those spindle  speeds gives more like .8 ipm and 0.03" 
depth/pass. 

FWIW: Boeing uses copious amounts of emulsifiable oil in
cutting Al. Think fire hose type flows for a wing spar.  

I did find a Russian video using alcohol for cooling. However,
if it flashes then you're toast. Alcohol also burns with a
almost colorless flame. 

Looking at heat of vaporization:

materialJ/g

water   2257
methanol1100
ethanol 846
propanol779

Of course you have to boil it off to get that removal of heat. 
Ventilation for the organics would be more than just advisable. 

It looks much safer to stay with emulsifiable oil. 

Keep kicking at it, you'll get there. 

Dave

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Re: [Emc-users] wiki addition GantryPlasmaMachine

[Viesturs Lācis]

2012/2/13 Tom Easterday :
>
> We have not noticed that any parts on the machine get warm to the touch.
>

Tom, thank You for sharing!
I asked about the heat because I once had a talk with local guys that
are local dealers of some foreign plasma table manufacturer and that
were thinking about building them on their own (so my interest was
taking over the CNC control part. It is easy to guess what software
did I intend to use there) and they told me that in industrial
machines it is pretty serious problem. Up to extent that gantry bridge
is water-cooled so that it does not rack too much.

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] wiki addition GantryPlasmaMachine

[Tom Easterday]

I should also add that the spec (1.6Nm) is continuous torque.  I am sure for 
some number of seconds it can do MUCH higher than that...

Tom
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Re: [Emc-users] wiki addition GantryPlasmaMachine

[Tom Easterday]

On Feb 13, 2012, at 9:47 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
> 2012/2/13 Tom Easterday :
>> 
>> We have the Keling KL-34GH101 10:1 gearboxes on the
>> X and Y joints (http://kelinginc.net/CNCGEARBOX.html)
>> with a 2" diameter pinion gear.
>> 
> 
> According to my calcs, with 1,6Nm rated motor torque, theoretically
> You are getting 630 N of continuous linear force. In practice it still
> should be above 600 N (gearboxes and other stuff is not 100%
> efficient). Totally fine for plasma machine.
> 
> Is it enough for machine to work as a router? What kind of materials
> are You routing, what is power of spindle, what feed rates and cutting
> depths can You achieve? I am particularly interested in Your
> experience (if You have) with aluminium plates.

The answer is I don't know.  But, that is 139 lbs of linear force.  I can't 
imagine that I would be plowing through something with that much force.  Of 
course it depends on the spindle speed, the cutting tool, how deep you are 
cutting, the material, etc but when I envision pushing a hand router through 
something, I am not pushing with anywhere near 130lbs of force!   We don't have 
a router for the machine and haven't used it for that yet so I can't speak from 
experience.  If/when we do get a router it will probably be a water cooled high 
speed spindle (24k rpm) with er20 collets.  I can't  imagine that we don't have 
enough torque for that...

> And one more question about plasma cutting - does the heat from plasma
> torch help getting the gantry bridge and other parts getting warmer
> thus causing any deflections?


We have not noticed that any parts on the machine get warm to the touch 
(besides the tip of the torch), but we haven't run it for hours on end yet 
either.  Especially with the water table (but even without), I don't think 
there is enough rise in temp of the surrounding parts or air to cause and 
deflections. Certainly nothing on the gantry gets warm.  There is a lot of 
metal (mostly aluminum) between the head and the gantry or even the X-truck, so 
there is quite a bit of heat sink if it ever were to generate that much heat.

Tom


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[Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

[Roland Jollivet]

On 13 February 2012 21:38, gene heskett  wrote:

> On Monday, February 13, 2012 02:24:49 PM Roland Jollivet did opine:
>
> > ..snip
> >
> > I would imagine... that the oxide layer is way way thinner than a micron
> > in thickness, and while tough as you say, in climb milling the cutter
> > tip will hit the metal and with the eggshell effect, simply push past
> > the oxide layer.
>
> In electronics, my specialty, we have a tendency to rate this oxide film by
> its voltage withstand capability, which in the above mentioned .001 seconds
> is about 40 volts.  This insulation BTW is perfect, and is considered to be
> degraded if a single electron succeeds in penetrating it.  Leave it out in
> the 19% oxygen air for a few weeks, or help it along with a hydroxide bath
> and it can exceed 400 volts.  That is quite a bit more than a micron
> although I don't have a thickness/voltage conversion table handy ATM.
>
> > I think that if this was a general problem, it would receive more alerts
> > in industry, although some shopfitting sections which are already
> > anodized, do take their toll on the saw blades.
>
> That has been noted, I've nicely rounded the teeth of several Starret
> hacksaw blades on the stuff myself, on one particular piece even breaking
> the teeth completely off!  So I tend to steer clear of colored alu as raw
> material. :)
>
> > Regards
> > Roland
>
>
But.. you can take almost any piece aluminium lying around (not anodised),
lightly touch it with the blunt rounded side of two crocodile clips, and
you'll measure a few milliohms. What happened to the oxide layer? It's so
thin that a few mN of pressure tore through it.

Regards
Roland
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Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

[gene heskett]

On Monday, February 13, 2012 02:24:49 PM Roland Jollivet did opine:

> ..snip
> 
> I would imagine... that the oxide layer is way way thinner than a micron
> in thickness, and while tough as you say, in climb milling the cutter
> tip will hit the metal and with the eggshell effect, simply push past
> the oxide layer.

In electronics, my specialty, we have a tendency to rate this oxide film by 
its voltage withstand capability, which in the above mentioned .001 seconds 
is about 40 volts.  This insulation BTW is perfect, and is considered to be 
degraded if a single electron succeeds in penetrating it.  Leave it out in 
the 19% oxygen air for a few weeks, or help it along with a hydroxide bath 
and it can exceed 400 volts.  That is quite a bit more than a micron 
although I don't have a thickness/voltage conversion table handy ATM.

> I think that if this was a general problem, it would receive more alerts
> in industry, although some shopfitting sections which are already
> anodized, do take their toll on the saw blades.

That has been noted, I've nicely rounded the teeth of several Starret 
hacksaw blades on the stuff myself, on one particular piece even breaking 
the teeth completely off!  So I tend to steer clear of colored alu as raw 
material. :)

> Regards
> Roland



Cheers, Gene
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[Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

[Roland Jollivet]

On 13 February 2012 20:59, gene heskett  wrote:

> On Monday, February 13, 2012 11:53:57 AM Bruce Klawiter did opine:
>
> > I do a ton of work with small cutters and in aluminum, I use a coolant
> > mister with alcohol, I use as much air as possible and just enough
> > alcohol to keep the part wet. The parts feel like they were in the
> > freezer when I am done. As Jon said keep the work cold.
> >
> > Bruce
>
> Guy's, maybe I don't understand cutting alu as well as I thought.
>
> All along, I have believed that it was more important to keep the oxygen in
> the air away from the cutting surface in order to slow the formation of alu
> oxide on the surface, which in normal air, not blown, can get a good start
> in 0.001 seconds or less behind the cutting tools edge as alu is a VERY
> active metal, oxidizing (rusting of ferrous material is exactly the same
> reaction at a rate millions of times slower than the alu rate) very
> rapidly, and its this thin film of oxide that is its own protective
> barrier, putting out the fire so to speak.  This oxide is also the 2nd
> hardest substance known to man and can take the edge off a carbide tool
> that has to cut thru it in seconds under the right set of wrong cutting
> params, which my slow feed made worse.  Dig cutting being worse in this
> regard.
>
> Sealing the cut surface against the air and its oxygen, blown or otherwise,
> that causes this instant alu oxide film with its subsequent wear on the
> cutting tool has always been the reason for my use of a cutting oil, deep
> enough to flood and seal the surface, or misted, particularly when I don't
> have the spindle rpms to throw it away from the cut.  Misting works better
> because it blows the cut chips away, preventing recut damages on the
> surface.  But my air compressor is outside and I didn't want to throw off
> the tarp and open the shop door so I could plug it in.
>
> Consider also that the higher rpm spindles put the cutting edges past the
> cut surface so fast that the only alu oxide they see is on the original
> surface before the cut and doesn't have much of a chance to reform before
> the cutting tool has moved on.
>
> The majority of the heat you are referring to is not the heat of the tools
> cutting action, but is the result of the chemical reaction that forms this
> alu oxide film so rapidly.  So my theory has always been to seal the oxygen
> away from the cut surface as well as you can with whatever you can that is
> not oxygen bearing.  Some oils, including the particular cutting oil I
> used, can have quite a bit of available oxygen & therefore will not be as
> effective as one would think at slowing this 'rusting' reaction.
>

..snip

I would imagine... that the oxide layer is way way thinner than a micron in
thickness, and while tough as you say, in climb milling the cutter tip will
hit the metal and with the eggshell effect, simply push past the oxide
layer.

I think that if this was a general problem, it would recieve more alerts in
industry, although some shopfitting sections which are already anodised, do
take their toll on the saw blades.

Regards
Roland
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Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

[gene heskett]

On Monday, February 13, 2012 11:53:57 AM Bruce Klawiter did opine:

> I do a ton of work with small cutters and in aluminum, I use a coolant
> mister with alcohol, I use as much air as possible and just enough
> alcohol to keep the part wet. The parts feel like they were in the
> freezer when I am done. As Jon said keep the work cold.
> 
> Bruce
 
Guy's, maybe I don't understand cutting alu as well as I thought.

All along, I have believed that it was more important to keep the oxygen in 
the air away from the cutting surface in order to slow the formation of alu 
oxide on the surface, which in normal air, not blown, can get a good start 
in 0.001 seconds or less behind the cutting tools edge as alu is a VERY 
active metal, oxidizing (rusting of ferrous material is exactly the same 
reaction at a rate millions of times slower than the alu rate) very 
rapidly, and its this thin film of oxide that is its own protective 
barrier, putting out the fire so to speak.  This oxide is also the 2nd 
hardest substance known to man and can take the edge off a carbide tool 
that has to cut thru it in seconds under the right set of wrong cutting 
params, which my slow feed made worse.  Dig cutting being worse in this 
regard.

Sealing the cut surface against the air and its oxygen, blown or otherwise, 
that causes this instant alu oxide film with its subsequent wear on the 
cutting tool has always been the reason for my use of a cutting oil, deep 
enough to flood and seal the surface, or misted, particularly when I don't 
have the spindle rpms to throw it away from the cut.  Misting works better 
because it blows the cut chips away, preventing recut damages on the 
surface.  But my air compressor is outside and I didn't want to throw off 
the tarp and open the shop door so I could plug it in.

Consider also that the higher rpm spindles put the cutting edges past the 
cut surface so fast that the only alu oxide they see is on the original 
surface before the cut and doesn't have much of a chance to reform before 
the cutting tool has moved on.

The majority of the heat you are referring to is not the heat of the tools 
cutting action, but is the result of the chemical reaction that forms this 
alu oxide film so rapidly.  So my theory has always been to seal the oxygen 
away from the cut surface as well as you can with whatever you can that is 
not oxygen bearing.  Some oils, including the particular cutting oil I 
used, can have quite a bit of available oxygen & therefore will not be as 
effective as one would think at slowing this 'rusting' reaction.

Based on that same theory, it would be my contention that if you were to 
hook a bottle of dry nitrogen up to that mister, and arrange a cover over 
the workpiece so as to contain it, totally excluding the air, (this isn't 
at all healthy for the machine operator for obvious reasons) then it should 
be possible to machine alu with excellent tool life even running dry.  Any 
noble gas would do, but dry nitrogen is generally an almost let it vent 
gas, saving only what they can sell, in the grand scheme of trying to make 
a profit from an air reduction facility, so nitrogen is, compared to the 
other gasses, dirt cheap.

However, unless you have your own air reduction facility, the cost of the 
dry nitrogen would exceed the cost of the tooling saved, which puts this 
theory into the real world as practical only for the most critical work.
Worth it only to the extent this cost can be passed on to the customer.

Now, I an not enough of a chemist to know how well an alcohol mist keeping 
it wet would function, but if it was truly being kept wet and sealed so 
there was little or no chance of the oxygen in the air supply actually 
getting to it until the machining is completed, its possible that this 
could be close to the ultimate, effective AND cheap method.

FWIW, this rapid oxidation is one of the reasons powdered alu is used in 
some explosives, fireworks being one that comes to mind.

Its entirely possible that my choice of cutting oils (comes in a quart 
plastic container labeled 'Cutting Oil' from ACE Hdwe in this case) was 
actually not a very good product for this usage as it had lots of free 
oxygen.  Obtaining this sort of info off the label of a plastic container 
of a product normally sold as a pipe thread cutter lubricant simply isn't 
going to be done as that isn't deemed important enough to list amongst the 
other carnival barker text on the back panel.

Its also possible that because there is available oxygen in this particular 
oil, and that combined with the slowness of the cut, that my tool was 
actually swimming in what gradually turned into a mud that was not alu, but 
nearly pure oxide, wearing the tool just as if I'd spun it by hand on a 
green wheel.  Finding the broken off piece and giving it a good look under 
a microscope would tell that tale.

So we each are left to be doomed to finding a method that seems to work, 
and often without a real, controll

Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

[Jon Elson]

gene heskett wrote:
>
> This particular sheet of alu seems to be dead soft.  The chips it was 
> making looked about the right size spinning around in the oil.
>   
Well, that may be the problem.  You do NOT want to keep recutting the same
chips.  You want a steady stream of something to remove the chips.  In 
some cases
an air jet can be used, too.
> I don't have water out there other than used. :)  And no real drainage 
> system exists although I have considered just setting the whole mill into a 
> pan about an inch deep, if I could find a suitable pan.
>   
OK, my Bridgeport has primitive drain basins at the end of the T slots, 
I return
the coolant to the tank with hoses.  If this is a desktop mill, you 
could probably
find a plastic tray at the discount store that would suffice.
>
> Running under cutting oil, about 1/16" deep, is a shop that's showing 51F, 
> really s/b cold enough.
But, the extreme slow feedrates cause localized heating.  It is MUCH 
better to
sip along on a fine cut than crawl along a deeper one, as the heat doesn't
build up in the work that way.

I still don't understand the 1.5 IPM feedrate, that is way too slow.  
Now, maybe
the gummy nature of this aluminum is such that it can't be cut at all.  
But, I think
this slow feedrate is making things much worse.

Maybe the long length of cut of this tool is the problem as others have 
mentioned.

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] wiki addition GantryPlasmaMachine

[John Thornton]

Ok, thanks I'll keep the part level in mind when I mod my water table. 
I'm using a Hypertherm 1250 with a machine torch and I do know that if I 
keep the bottom of the part wet then I get a whole lot less smoke and 
dust. I have a small insert that I use for small parts that I can fill 
to the top.

John

On 2/13/2012 8:09 AM, Tom Easterday wrote:
> On Feb 13, 2012, at 8:05 AM, John Thornton wrote:
>> Tom,
>>
>> Wow! what a nice write up.
>>
>> I use a mix of sodium nitrite and physan 20 in my water. I noticed your
>> water is green, what are you using?
> Lube Corp., Green Cut (http://www.greencut.com/).  We used it because we had 
> it sitting around the shop.  Peter tried using it in his converted Fadal mill 
> but didn't like it for some reason I don't recall.  It seems to be fine in 
> the plasma table for the few weeks we've had it.
>
>> How does cutting submerged work?
>> I've been wanting to modify my water table to do this for some time...
> The torch we have is not designed to cut fully submerged (Hypertherm 
> Powermax54)  If the part is just under the water, say 0.25" or less, the air 
> blowing through the torch head will just move the water out of the way and it 
> is cutting just like it is above water (minus the top sparks of course).   If 
> you get the part any deeper though you get a lot of dross on the bottom, 
> normally an indication of cutting to fast.  It just can't cut it (pun 
> intended) if it is really submerged.  We try to keep the part just at the 
> surface.
>
> Supposedly there are torches designed to cut fully submerged, so I have read, 
> but I don't know anything about them...
> Tom
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Re: [Emc-users] Filters [Was: question on gcode parsing]

[Alan]

Two points, firstly after sending my first mail I have been thinking in 
terms of intermediate languages, which have a successful history from 
pascal onwards. I guess the gcode standard RS274NGC could be that 
intermediate language with the result that little need be done to change 
the current system except to ammend the front end of the toolchain to 
accept alternative inputs.

However, my view of plugins is more general than "the ability to send 
loaded files through a filter program". Like Eclipse I would want 
plugins to integrate themselves within the emc system including its 
windows and menus etc. For example I am writing a rose engine simulator 
that ultimately generates gcode. It comprises of at least 4 types of 
editing window plus numerous menu items also it is written in C# (sorry 
if that offends some of you :-) ). I originally thought when I started 
that it would have been nice to have it integrated with the emc system, 
obviously that proved to be impossible. Do I need it to be a plugin - 
obviously no , I just thought it would have been a nice idea to push the 
gcode directly into emc without having to go via saving/loading several 
textfiles. However I do understand about function bloat and would accept 
the argument that emc should be left to its core essentials( sorry have 
I just contradicted myself!!).

I still think plugins are a great idea.

Alan


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Re: [Emc-users] wiki addition GantryPlasmaMachine

[Viesturs Lācis]

2012/2/13 Tom Easterday :
>
>  We have the Keling KL-34GH101 10:1 gearboxes on the
> X and Y joints (http://kelinginc.net/CNCGEARBOX.html)
> with a 2" diameter pinion gear.
>

According to my calcs, with 1,6Nm rated motor torque, theoretically
You are getting 630 N of continuous linear force. In practice it still
should be above 600 N (gearboxes and other stuff is not 100%
efficient). Totally fine for plasma machine.

Is it enough for machine to work as a router? What kind of materials
are You routing, what is power of spindle, what feed rates and cutting
depths can You achieve? I am particularly interested in Your
experience (if You have) with aluminium plates.

And one more question about plasma cutting - does the heat from plasma
torch help getting the gantry bridge and other parts getting warmer
thus causing any deflections?

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] wiki addition GantryPlasmaMachine

[Tom Easterday]

On Feb 13, 2012, at 9:29 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
> I have a question about steel hardening (I really hope that this is the
> correct word in English to describe that process), when plasma-cutting a
> material that is submerged in water. How much does it really occur and
> how much difficulties with post-processing the parts (on mill etc)
> does it really make? And does the decreased deformation of material
> due to enhanced cooling by the liquid really offset the problems from
> steel hardening?

I will defer to an expert.  I don't know the answers to these questions, though 
they are interesting ones.  I do know that the water cools the cut 
instantaneously.  Or more accurately, I should say that if the part is sitting 
at or just below the surface, when you cut you can touch the part immediately 
after the cut and it will be cool to the touch.

> Does such a partial submerging in water help with reducing smoke and
> fumes from the cutting zone? I have read that full submerging in water
> helps a lot on this issue.

You don't even need to partially submerge.  Just having the part above the 
water helps immensely.  Before we had the water pan we were limiting cuts 
because the fine dust that is created spreads throughout the room.  A few cuts 
and everything in the room was covered in a fine black powder.  My Macbook has 
magnetic latches in the screen and had small piles of filings stuck to the 
those magnets.  With the water table, even above the water, as far as I can 
tell nearly all of the dust is eliminated.  There is still some I am sure that 
comes from the top of the part, sparks will fly off the top to a minor extent, 
but the fine dust does not appear that I have been able to tell.  And if the 
part is just below the surface (even just on the edge of above and below) you 
have very few sparks from the top.

Tom
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Re: [Emc-users] wiki addition GantryPlasmaMachine

[Viesturs Lācis]

2012/2/13 Tom Easterday :
>
> We talk about the distance in the Motors section. We have the
> Keling KL-34GH101 10:1 gearboxes on the X and Y joints
> (http://kelinginc.net/CNCGEARBOX.html) with a 2" diameter
> pinion gear. 1 rev moves the truck 0.6283”.
>

Sorry, now that You mention I really found that number in wiki page.

I have a question about steel hardening (I really hope that this is the
correct word in English to describe that process), when plasma-cutting a
material that is submerged in water. How much does it really occur and
how much difficulties with post-processing the parts (on mill etc)
does it really make? And does the decreased deformation of material
due to enhanced cooling by the liquid really offset the problems from
steel hardening?
Does such a partial submerging in water help with reducing smoke and
fumes from the cutting zone? I have read that full submerging in water
helps a lot on this issue.

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] wiki addition GantryPlasmaMachine

[Tom Easterday]

On Feb 13, 2012, at 9:09 AM, Tom Easterday wrote:
> 
> The torch we have is not designed to cut fully submerged (Hypertherm 
> Powermax54)

That should be Powermax 45.  

220, 221, whatever it takes :-) 
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX3kxAA2L4Q)

-Tom
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Re: [Emc-users] wiki addition GantryPlasmaMachine

[Tom Easterday]

On Feb 13, 2012, at 8:05 AM, John Thornton wrote:
> Tom,
> 
> Wow! what a nice write up.
> 
> I use a mix of sodium nitrite and physan 20 in my water. I noticed your 
> water is green, what are you using?

Lube Corp., Green Cut (http://www.greencut.com/).  We used it because we had it 
sitting around the shop.  Peter tried using it in his converted Fadal mill but 
didn't like it for some reason I don't recall.  It seems to be fine in the 
plasma table for the few weeks we've had it.

> How does cutting submerged work? 
> I've been wanting to modify my water table to do this for some time...

The torch we have is not designed to cut fully submerged (Hypertherm 
Powermax54)  If the part is just under the water, say 0.25" or less, the air 
blowing through the torch head will just move the water out of the way and it 
is cutting just like it is above water (minus the top sparks of course).   If 
you get the part any deeper though you get a lot of dross on the bottom, 
normally an indication of cutting to fast.  It just can't cut it (pun intended) 
if it is really submerged.  We try to keep the part just at the surface.

Supposedly there are torches designed to cut fully submerged, so I have read, 
but I don't know anything about them...
Tom
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Re: [Emc-users] wiki addition GantryPlasmaMachine

[Tom Easterday]

On Feb 13, 2012, at 7:29 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
> 
> In wiki I did not see any file for a diagram, but HAL file comment says:
> # Define Singals (see block diagram for comments)
> 
I see you found the logic diagra.

> 
> 2) I have another 2 questions about the servo motors. Do I understand
> correctly from the link in wiki page that You have brushed DC servo
> motors? And what is approximate travel distance on x and y joints for
> a full turn of motor?

Yes, they are brushed DC servos.We talk about the distance in the Motors 
section. We have the Keling KL-34GH101 10:1 gearboxes on the X and Y joints 
(http://kelinginc.net/CNCGEARBOX.html) with a 2" diameter pinion gear. 1 rev 
moves the truck 0.6283”.

> 
> 3) Any particular reason to run the servo drives in step/dir mode? In
> Granite Devices homepage I see that the drives accept also pwm signal,
> which can be created in Mesa card just as easily as step signals.

We started with step/dir on the Geckos and since the Granite's accept that we 
just stuck with it.  We had some issues with noise and tuning that may be 
related to using step/dir and at one point I was tempted to try PWM but it just 
never happened and we worked out our issues.  I am curious about it, but not 
sure if I am curious enough to spend the time.  Perhaps at some point in the 
future...

> Thanks and congratulations on finishing such a nice and pretty
> sophisticated project!

Thanks,
Tom
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Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

[Bruce Klawiter]

I do a ton of work with small cutters and in aluminum, I use a coolant mister 
with alcohol, I use as much air as possible and just enough alcohol to keep the 
part wet. The parts feel like they were in the freezer when I am done.
As Jon said keep the work cold.

Bruce

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Re: [Emc-users] wiki addition GantryPlasmaMachine

[Tom Easterday]

On Feb 13, 2012, at 3:58 AM, Michael Haberler wrote:
> Tom, Peter,
> 
> Very nice! and well documented
> 
> actually I think this should go into master configs/ alltogether - this is a 
> great starter for others and a better GladeVCP example than what I cooked up 
> so far
> 
> - Michael
> 
> actually I learned somehing - the fixed layout widget gives nice looking 
> results

Thanks Michael,
You helped a ton on the IRC, I appreciate the time!
Tom
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Re: [Emc-users] wiki addition GantryPlasmaMachine

[Viesturs Lācis]

2012/2/13 Viesturs Lācis :
>
>
> Any chance You might share something, because now I do not see a
> chance to understand the logics, how is all the THC thing working.
>

My apologies, I had missed the link to PDF file.

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] wiki addition GantryPlasmaMachine

[John Thornton]

Tom,

Wow! what a nice write up.

I use a mix of sodium nitrite and physan 20 in my water. I noticed your 
water is green, what are you using? How does cutting submerged work? 
I've been wanting to modify my water table to do this for some time...

John

On 2/12/2012 4:29 PM, Tom Easterday wrote:
> Peter Jensen and I have posted a wiki page documenting our build of a 
> trivkins based gantry-style plasma machine running Linuxcnc with Gladevcp  
> (as well as pyvcp), constructed over the last year.   I linked the page to 
> the "User Configurations" section of the main page 
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNCKnowledgeBase page.  I hope 
> that was the right thing to do.  Comments welcome.
>
> wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GantryPlasmaMachine
>
> -Tom
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Two side routing

[Erik Friesen]

One thing that could be a factor I suppose..  I am using the probotix 40v
system, it uses a sla7078mr stepper driver.  There is no shielding on the
cables to the motor, and whenever I am routing plastic, if I run the vacuum
too close, static discharge does something somewhere, and the drivers, or
something fritzes until I cycle the power.

If indeed it is missing steps, I find it hard to accept that it is from
overpowering the system.  40ipm in plastic with a .125" bit at .2" depth
per pass isn't much.

On Mon, Feb 13, 2012 at 7:24 AM, Erik Friesen  wrote:

> These are long reach 2 flute, they do flex a bit.  I suppose I could be
> losing steps, but it always finishes pretty well at zero, not .1 off.
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 11:06 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
>
>> Erik Friesen wrote:
>> > I have been puzzling over how to deal with double sided routing of 1"
>> pvc.
>> > Currently I am working on a 12" x 12" square area, with 10 work pieces
>> > arrayed out.  Each part has a couple 1/8" zero holes that I use to line
>> up
>> > when I flip the pvc.  The problem lies in the fact that nothing really
>> > comes out when I flip the pvc.  I am using G10l2P*R* to rotate the board
>> > depending on a two point zero.  However, the points never are square
>> with
>> > each other, to the tune of .100 off at 10" from zero.  I have checked my
>> > machine squareness and I believe it is less than .010 on a 12" piece.
>>  All
>> > I can figure out is that the 1/8 endmill is wandering enough to cause
>> > this.  Does anyone with experience doing this have some points to offer?
>> >
>> Hmmm, very strange.  I don't use 1/8" HSS endmills, only carbide.  I
>> know the HSS cutters
>> can deflect, but no WAY can it deflect even .050" (half your error).
>> Could the workpiece
>> be slipping on the table?  Could the head of the machine be swinging on
>> the round
>> ram (if it is built like that?)  Why not cut one side and then go back
>> and re-check the
>> initial coordinate setup at the corner?  That will detect part slippage.
>>
>> And, of course, if this is a stepper machine, check for loss of steps
>> after a long
>> program.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
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>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Back to taskset usage ramifications

[Mark Wendt]

On 02/13/2012 07:30 AM, gene heskett wrote:
>> Gene,
>>
>> Yeah, atop does run as a daemon collecting info in the background.  If
>> you crank up atop on the command line with the -s switch, you get a neat
>> screen which shows what CPU the process is running on.  On my Ubuntu
>> 11.10 with a quad core, I see processes occasionally running on all
>> four.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>  
> I'll give the -s switch a try when I'm awake for good.  Thanks.
>
>
> Cheers, Gene
>
You're welcome!  I think there's a way to also pipe the output to some 
kind of raw file that you can go back and peruse at your leisure too, 
along with the ability to change your interval time so you can catch 
those transient thingies that may pop up in between the times when the 
atop output screen is updated.  I think the default is 10 seconds, but 
there's a switch to adjust either way.

mark

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Re: [Emc-users] wiki addition GantryPlasmaMachine

[Viesturs Lācis]

2012/2/13 Tom Easterday :
> Peter Jensen and I have posted a wiki page documenting our build of a 
> trivkins based gantry-style plasma machine running Linuxcnc with Gladevcp  
> (as well as pyvcp), constructed over the last year.   I linked the page to 
> the "User Configurations" section of the main page 
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNCKnowledgeBase page.  I hope 
> that was the right thing to do.  Comments welcome.
>
> wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GantryPlasmaMachine

1) Tom, the THC part seems incredible!
And it rises a lot of questions because in Your HAL file You have:
# Load realtime hal components for THC
loadrt mux2 count=19
loadrt mux8 count=14
loadrt sum2 count=14
loadrt comp count=15
loadrt limit3step   count=14
loadrt ddt  count=14
loadrt minmax   count=14
loadrt not  count=14
loadrt mult2count=14
loadrt hypotcount=14
loadrt and2 count=14
loadrt debounce cfg=1

In wiki I did not see any file for a diagram, but HAL file comment says:
# Define Singals (see block diagram for comments)

Any chance You might share something, because now I do not see a
chance to understand the logics, how is all the THC thing working.

2) I have another 2 questions about the servo motors. Do I understand
correctly from the link in wiki page that You have brushed DC servo
motors? And what is approximate travel distance on x and y joints for
a full turn of motor?

3) Any particular reason to run the servo drives in step/dir mode? In
Granite Devices homepage I see that the drives accept also pwm signal,
which can be created in Mesa card just as easily as step signals.

Thanks and congratulations on finishing such a nice and pretty
sophisticated project!

Viesturs

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Re: [Emc-users] Back to taskset usage ramifications

[gene heskett]

On Monday, February 13, 2012 07:27:42 AM Mark Wendt did opine:

> On 02/12/2012 01:12 PM, gene heskett wrote:
> >> Gene,
> >> 
> >> About tracking that occasional blip on the isolcpu, have you used
> >> atop? Consider it a "top" on steroids.  It shows processes running
> >> much like top, but also displays what cpu they are running on. 
> >> Here's the atop web site:  http://www.atoptool.nl
> >> 
> >> Click on the screen shots and take a peek at what atop has over the
> >> top utility.  I use it at work.
> >> 
> >> Mark
> > 
> > This prompted me to do a little more experimenting between running it
> > as lcnc, which is a script that does the taskset, and running it as
> > linuxcnc which does not.  Then either way atop did not detect enough
> > activity on the 2nd cpu to bother listing it more than 5% of the
> > time.  In that regard, htop, which displays each cpu it is configured
> > for, full time as a slider in the upper area of its screen.  To me,
> > htop is the better utility, but then I am used to it and have been
> > using it for years on this box full time.
> > 
> > ksysguard OTOH used for the rest of this testing, showed a higher cpu
> > usage overall for both cpu's and cpu001 was consistently in the
> > 50-60% range when taskset was in effect, and about a 20% less total
> > when it was not, only with possibly an 8% peak for #1 while it was
> > running a 20 minute program with the motors off.
> > 
> > Which of these two monitors utils is correct, I'll have to plead the
> > 5th on as I don't have a clue.
> > 
> > Then I thought I'd see how fast I can run the base thread, starting to
> > hit realtime delays when taskset was used at about 17 microseconds,
> > and pretty consistently at 14 microseconds, and when taskset was not
> > used, I could go down another microsecond, perhaps 2.  Without
> > taskset, and at 19 microseconds, it has now run that 20 minute
> > program 3 times without a delay warning thrown.
> > 
> > This of course is without the local and slower gfx delays that
> > relatively poor intel gfx chip will cause when it is using its own X
> > to display the axis output.  Hooking up my lappy, and ssh-ing into it
> > so as to use the laptops gfx, probably wouldn't be quite that
> > advantageous as its an ati gfx chipset and only a 1.4Ghz 'turion',
> > but I'd think, until I observe otherwise, that what I'd see would be
> > laggy gfx if the miss-match was too great.
> > 
> > I guess what I'm saying is that in the overall scheme, using taskset
> > isn't the magic twanger I thought it might be.  The gfx in use, from
> > this testing would seem to have the more noticeable  effect.  I will,
> > very occasionally hit a realtime delay when running on its own x
> > server&  local screen with a 20 microsecond base thread when using
> > taskset.  Konversation is running, but firefox is not, kcalc and
> > update_manager are but neither of the last are using detectable cpu.
> > 
> > When I installed atop, it started an atop daemon, but I have no clue
> > if it is actually active and collecting data when the display isn't
> > running, in any event I just now used htop to run it down&  send it a
> > quit signal just in case.
> > 
> > htop, FWIW, is showing cpu1 at around .5% so it must be using the same
> > mechanism as atop to collect the data.  As this HAS to be a bit
> > intrusive, its possible it might cost a microsecond in base thread
> > time to actually collect the data.  I don't normally run it, or
> > ksysguard, on that box since the gfx for ksysguard would have to
> > impinge on the rest of the system.
> > 
> > Conclusion?  Forget taskset, and export the display to a remote server
> > for best realtime performance.  I believe that is the same conclusion
> > some of you have reached.  However, the improvement wouldn't seem to
> > warrant the sheckels to buy another of those boxes and a display,
> > territory of $375 additional cost, although that box could probably
> > boot from a usb key and wouldn't need a dvd writer, bringing that
> > back down to perhaps $300.  Still not worth the minuscule improvement
> > IMO.
> > 
> > Thanks Mark.
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene
> 
> Gene,
> 
> Yeah, atop does run as a daemon collecting info in the background.  If
> you crank up atop on the command line with the -s switch, you get a neat
> screen which shows what CPU the process is running on.  On my Ubuntu
> 11.10 with a quad core, I see processes occasionally running on all
> four.
> 
> Mark
> 
I'll give the -s switch a try when I'm awake for good.  Thanks.


Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] Two side routing

[Erik Friesen]

These are long reach 2 flute, they do flex a bit.  I suppose I could be
losing steps, but it always finishes pretty well at zero, not .1 off.

On Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 11:06 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:

> Erik Friesen wrote:
> > I have been puzzling over how to deal with double sided routing of 1"
> pvc.
> > Currently I am working on a 12" x 12" square area, with 10 work pieces
> > arrayed out.  Each part has a couple 1/8" zero holes that I use to line
> up
> > when I flip the pvc.  The problem lies in the fact that nothing really
> > comes out when I flip the pvc.  I am using G10l2P*R* to rotate the board
> > depending on a two point zero.  However, the points never are square with
> > each other, to the tune of .100 off at 10" from zero.  I have checked my
> > machine squareness and I believe it is less than .010 on a 12" piece.
>  All
> > I can figure out is that the 1/8 endmill is wandering enough to cause
> > this.  Does anyone with experience doing this have some points to offer?
> >
> Hmmm, very strange.  I don't use 1/8" HSS endmills, only carbide.  I
> know the HSS cutters
> can deflect, but no WAY can it deflect even .050" (half your error).
> Could the workpiece
> be slipping on the table?  Could the head of the machine be swinging on
> the round
> ram (if it is built like that?)  Why not cut one side and then go back
> and re-check the
> initial coordinate setup at the corner?  That will detect part slippage.
>
> And, of course, if this is a stepper machine, check for loss of steps
> after a long
> program.
>
> Jon
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

[gene heskett]

On Monday, February 13, 2012 07:26:20 AM charles green did opine:

> danger!  the coated tools are terrible on aluminum.  the coating has a
> micro roughness that nucleates chip welding of soft aluminum.  coatings
> are good for lubricity of hard material chips against the cutter, but a
> mirror smooth surface is best for carbide in aluminum.
> 
Good to keep in mind too, thanks Charles.

Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

[gene heskett]

On Monday, February 13, 2012 07:22:12 AM andy pugh did opine:

> On 13 February 2012 01:10, gene heskett  wrote:
> > So, I need to find a more suitable mill for this, I assume only 1 or 2
> > flute, and maybe only 1/8" of working bit.
> 
> Can you use 1.5mm and afford to wait a week or so?
> http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/the-386/TiAlN-Coated-Tungsten-Micrograin
> /Detail

Looks like those have metric shafts too & I don't have a collet set to fit 
them.  Wrong side of the pond.  Good prices though.

Thanks Andy.

Cheers, Gene
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Endless the quest;
I turn again, back to my own beginning,
And here, find rest.

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Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

[gene heskett]

On Monday, February 13, 2012 07:18:35 AM Erik Christiansen did opine:

> On 13.02.12 01:10, gene heskett wrote:
> > This particular sheet of alu seems to be dead soft.  The chips it was
> > making looked about the right size spinning around in the oil.
> > 
> > I don't have water out there other than used. :)  And no real drainage
> > system exists although I have considered just setting the whole mill
> > into a pan about an inch deep, if I could find a suitable pan.
> 
> Gene, if milling that shiny toffee is the only game in town, and there's
> neither water nor drainage, then what about methylated spirits in a good
> spray bottle? Lots of that should cool well, and evaporate.
> 
> The one time I milled soft Al sheet was once too often. The swarf welds
> back onto the workpiece, the way I go at it. Definitely needs coolant,
> but it's still masochism.
> 
> Do you have an unloved diecast box, or larger aluminium-ish cast
> enclosure, with a sufficiently thick section that you can hack out? I've
> found that milling cast Al can be done without coolant, and without
> toffee-like tackiness. The swarf comes off cleanly, but a bit of metho
> spray can help prevent eventual build-up.
> 
> Erik
> 
> > Running under cutting oil, about 1/16" deep, is a shop that's showing
> > 51F, really s/b cold enough.
> 
> My experience is limited, but for me, the oil just helps to keep the
> swarf near the tool, and even drag it back between the tool and
> workpiece. Perhaps I should have used a higher spindle speed, but it's a
> pain to shuffle the belts on the 3/4 ton mill.
> 
> Soft Al is only good for melting down together with a bit of copper and
> a bit of zinc, to make an alloy we can machine, I think.
> 
> Erik

Chuckle, I believe that may be the best solution yet for this crap. ;-)

Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

[gene heskett]

On Monday, February 13, 2012 07:13:26 AM Mark Cason did opine:

> On 02/13/2012 12:21 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> >> I have their 2011/12 catalog, and it shows 1/8" as their smallest
> >> high helix carbide cutter.
> > 
> > If the price is good, then it might worth downloading the catalog, but
> > its about 150 megs so I killed that download.  Is the price right?
> > say under $15/copy?  Oh wait, you said 1/8 was the smallest.  Won't
> > work.
> > 
> > Thanks Mark.
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene
> 
>The PDF on their site is the old 2010/11 catalog.  I have a paper
> copy.  They have some 2 flute solid carbide end mills.
> 
> Regular length - 1/16" dia x 1/4" flute length.  1/8" shank x 1-1/2"
> overall length:
> uncoated - 415-0970 - $5.67
> ALTIN coated - 415-1007 - $6.51
> 
> Stub length - 1/16" dia x 1/8" flute length.  1/8" shank x 1-1/2" OAL:
> uncoated - 415-0398 - $4.03
> ALTIN coated - 415-0415 - $5.26
> 
This one sounds good, I'll get a 5 pack if its in stock, yet today.  Those 
longer ones are wa too fragile in the hands of a dummy like me.

> 3xDiameter Miniature - 0.062" dia x 0.186" flute length.  0.125" shank x
> 1-1/2" OAL:
> uncoated - 415-2232 - $9.18
> ALTIN coated 415-2286 - $11.03
> 
> 1.5xD Miniature - 0.062" dia x 0.093" flute length.  0.125" shank x
> 1-1/2" OAL:
> uncoated - 415-2871 - $10.57
> ALTIN coated - 415-2896 - $12.68
> 
> You should be able to type the part #'s into their site.  When you order
> something in a medium sized, or larger box, they drop in a catalog.
> Hope this helps.

Thanks Mark.

Cheers, Gene
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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My web page: 
There's an old proverb that says just about whatever you want it to.

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Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

[gene heskett]

On Monday, February 13, 2012 07:03:03 AM Greg Bernard did opine:

> Gene-
> Sounds like your problem is mostly due to the crappy aluminum. I had
> that happen this weekend cutting an aluminum sign using customer
> supplied material. I did a dry run with a .07 2 flute in some 6061
> alloy (which cuts without coolant just fine at ~20,000 rpm)  and all
> was well. When I went to cut the job the bit loaded up immediately. So
> I ended up using an 1/8" bit cutting with a flood of  WD-40 and
> settling for the larger radius in the corners. Gummy aluminum sucks.
> Have you considered using brass for your wheel? Nearly every hobby shop
> carries the K&S brass sheets. I believe it's all 360 brass which
> machines beautifully.  Plus, it's very easy to blacken it.
 
That sounds precisely like what I need.  And I know where to get that 
almost locally, 50 mile round trip.

I don't think I need to blacken it since this is transmission mode stuff.

Thanks for the reminder.  I have some brass door kick plate I think, but I 
tried to engrave some name plates and found that no two sheets of it 
machine the same.  The first one did a beautiful job & sold the name plate 
idea, but the next sheet was a little gummy & threw up ridges.  And its 
that stuff I have half a sheet of.

Good idea.  Thanks again.

Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD

[Mark Wendt]

On 02/12/2012 02:48 PM, Peter C. Wallace wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Feb 2012, Greg Bernard wrote:
>
>
>> Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2012 11:41:07 -0800 (PST)
>> From: Greg Bernard
>> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
>> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD
>>
>> Tom's instructions are correct but remember that the EMC version of Ubuntu
>> only does a shutdown of the OS. You will have to turn the computer off
>> manually.
>>  
> That may be a version dependent issue. It turns off power on
> my 10.04/LinuxCNC 2.46/2.5 setup
>
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
>
> (\__/)
> (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
> (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
>
Mine powers off too.  I've got a Dell Precision something or other I'm 
running on my machine.  My old machine, with an AMD processor didn't 
power off, only did the shut down of the OS.

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] Back to taskset usage ramifications

[Mark Wendt]

On 02/12/2012 01:12 PM, gene heskett wrote:
>> Gene,
>>
>> About tracking that occasional blip on the isolcpu, have you used atop?
>> Consider it a "top" on steroids.  It shows processes running much like
>> top, but also displays what cpu they are running on.  Here's the atop
>> web site:  http://www.atoptool.nl
>>
>> Click on the screen shots and take a peek at what atop has over the top
>> utility.  I use it at work.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>  
> This prompted me to do a little more experimenting between running it as
> lcnc, which is a script that does the taskset, and running it as linuxcnc
> which does not.  Then either way atop did not detect enough activity on the
> 2nd cpu to bother listing it more than 5% of the time.  In that regard,
> htop, which displays each cpu it is configured for, full time as a slider
> in the upper area of its screen.  To me, htop is the better utility, but
> then I am used to it and have been using it for years on this box full
> time.
>
> ksysguard OTOH used for the rest of this testing, showed a higher cpu usage
> overall for both cpu's and cpu001 was consistently in the 50-60% range when
> taskset was in effect, and about a 20% less total when it was not, only
> with possibly an 8% peak for #1 while it was running a 20 minute program
> with the motors off.
>
> Which of these two monitors utils is correct, I'll have to plead the 5th on
> as I don't have a clue.
>
> Then I thought I'd see how fast I can run the base thread, starting to hit
> realtime delays when taskset was used at about 17 microseconds, and pretty
> consistently at 14 microseconds, and when taskset was not used, I could go
> down another microsecond, perhaps 2.  Without taskset, and at 19
> microseconds, it has now run that 20 minute program 3 times without a delay
> warning thrown.
>
> This of course is without the local and slower gfx delays that relatively
> poor intel gfx chip will cause when it is using its own X to display the
> axis output.  Hooking up my lappy, and ssh-ing into it so as to use the
> laptops gfx, probably wouldn't be quite that advantageous as its an ati gfx
> chipset and only a 1.4Ghz 'turion', but I'd think, until I observe
> otherwise, that what I'd see would be laggy gfx if the miss-match was too
> great.
>
> I guess what I'm saying is that in the overall scheme, using taskset isn't
> the magic twanger I thought it might be.  The gfx in use, from this testing
> would seem to have the more noticeable  effect.  I will, very occasionally
> hit a realtime delay when running on its own x server&  local screen with a
> 20 microsecond base thread when using taskset.  Konversation is running,
> but firefox is not, kcalc and update_manager are but neither of the last
> are using detectable cpu.
>
> When I installed atop, it started an atop daemon, but I have no clue if it
> is actually active and collecting data when the display isn't running, in
> any event I just now used htop to run it down&  send it a quit signal just
> in case.
>
> htop, FWIW, is showing cpu1 at around .5% so it must be using the same
> mechanism as atop to collect the data.  As this HAS to be a bit intrusive,
> its possible it might cost a microsecond in base thread time to actually
> collect the data.  I don't normally run it, or ksysguard, on that box since
> the gfx for ksysguard would have to impinge on the rest of the system.
>
> Conclusion?  Forget taskset, and export the display to a remote server for
> best realtime performance.  I believe that is the same conclusion some of
> you have reached.  However, the improvement wouldn't seem to warrant the
> sheckels to buy another of those boxes and a display, territory of $375
> additional cost, although that box could probably boot from a usb key and
> wouldn't need a dvd writer, bringing that back down to perhaps $300.  Still
> not worth the minuscule improvement IMO.
>
> Thanks Mark.
>
> Cheers, Gene
>
Gene,

Yeah, atop does run as a daemon collecting info in the background.  If 
you crank up atop on the command line with the -s switch, you get a neat 
screen which shows what CPU the process is running on.  On my Ubuntu 
11.10 with a quad core, I see processes occasionally running on all four.

Mark


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Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

[charles green]

danger!  the coated tools are terrible on aluminum.  the coating has a micro 
roughness that nucleates chip welding of soft aluminum.  coatings are good for 
lubricity of hard material chips against the cutter, but a mirror smooth 
surface is best for carbide in aluminum.

--- On Mon, 2/13/12, andy pugh  wrote:


From: andy pugh 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill
To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Date: Monday, February 13, 2012, 2:06 AM


On 13 February 2012 01:10, gene heskett  wrote:

> So, I need to find a more suitable mill for this, I assume only 1 or 2
> flute, and maybe only 1/8" of working bit.

Can you use 1.5mm and afford to wait a week or so?
http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/the-386/TiAlN-Coated-Tungsten-Micrograin/Detail

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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD

[Mark Wendt]

On 02/12/2012 11:36 AM, Tom Easterday wrote:
> On Feb 12, 2012, at 11:15 AM, Stephen Dubovsky wrote:
>
>
>>> But... (I think) I can't actually run EMC because it wants to install a
>>>
>> Install the config file on a USB key?
>>  
> And, it is easy to create a bootable usb flashdrive for Linuxcnc LiveCD using 
> usb-creator:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Live_USB_creator
>
> ...mainly posting this because it took me a while to find this tool
> Tom
>
The tool is now called usb-creator-gtk or usb-creator-kde on Ubuntu 11.10.

Mark

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Re: [Emc-users] Need advice on 1/16" end mill

[andy pugh]

On 13 February 2012 01:10, gene heskett  wrote:

> So, I need to find a more suitable mill for this, I assume only 1 or 2
> flute, and maybe only 1/8" of working bit.

Can you use 1.5mm and afford to wait a week or so?
http://www.ctctools.biz/servlet/the-386/TiAlN-Coated-Tungsten-Micrograin/Detail

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Re: [Emc-users] wiki addition GantryPlasmaMachine

[Michael Haberler]

Tom, Peter,

Very nice! and well documented

actually I think this should go into master configs/ alltogether - this is a 
great starter for others and a better GladeVCP example than what I cooked up so 
far

- Michael

actually I learned somehing - the fixed layout widget gives nice looking results

Am 12.02.2012 um 23:29 schrieb Tom Easterday:

> Peter Jensen and I have posted a wiki page documenting our build of a 
> trivkins based gantry-style plasma machine running Linuxcnc with Gladevcp  
> (as well as pyvcp), constructed over the last year.   I linked the page to 
> the "User Configurations" section of the main page 
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNCKnowledgeBase page.  I hope 
> that was the right thing to do.  Comments welcome.
> 
> wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?GantryPlasmaMachine
> 
> -Tom
> 
> 
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> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing 
> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
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