Re: [Emc-users] CNC Tube Bender

[Adam Okon]

This is taken from the list Open Manufacturing:

begin of citation
___
From: Marco Perry 
Date: Thu, May 10, 2012 at 11:33 AM
Subject: [OH Updates] Open source experience
To: upda...@lists.openhardwaresummit.org


Hi All,
I am new to the list, so excuse me if this has been discussed ad
nauseum. For fun, we created a DIY CNC wire bender. If you are
curious, see it here - DIWire Bender and more here blog.pensanyc.com.

So here's the question - We want to open source it. If you have open
sourced your hardware/software, what was your experience? Any pearls
of wisdom, dos, don'ts and watch outs?


__

end of citation




W dniu 05.06.2012 22:32, Joseph Chiu pisze:
> Under!  Now that's a great idea!
>
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 6:26 PM, dave  wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 17 May 2012 12:18:40 -0400
>> "Kent A. Reed"  wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/17/2012 6:43 AM, John Thornton wrote:
 Pretty impressive for DIY, too bad they don't know anything about
 straightening wire... those lead in rollers are totally wrong if
 their intention was to straighten the wire on that plane.

 John

 On 5/16/2012 10:26 PM, Kent A. Reed wrote:
> On 5/16/2012 7:26 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
>> I wonder if this uses g-code?
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/embed/yigRgG_NIyU
>>
> This is very cool. Less impressive, perhaps, but still interesting
> is the DIY wire bender
>
>> http://hackaday.com/2012/05/04/diwire-bender-makes-nearly-any-shape-imaginable/
>
> Regards,
> Kent
>

>>>
>>> The wire bender has considerable room for improvement but it caught
>>> my eye because:
>>>
>>> Back when Lyndon Johnson was President, I earned tuition money
>>> working in office-building construction.
>>>
>>> Well, I didn't actually work; I was paid to watch others work,
>>> functioning as an extra pair of eyes and ears for the job
>>> superintendent. One of my tasks was to monitor the subcontractor
>>> laying up rebar and formwork and placing concrete (you can imagine
>>> how popular I was, still fuzzy cheeked, wearing clean jeans and an
>>> even cleaner hardhat, and carrying a notebook!). I got to spend time
>>> watching guys with strong backs bending rebar into the byzantine
>>> shapes and cages called out in the construction drawings.
>>>
>>> I understand there's a fair amount of automation now in the
>>> straightening, cutting, and bending of rebar. Another "John Henry"
>>> story.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Kent
>>>
>> AH, yes, those stories about when we were young. ..
>>
>> In '87, I built a house. Order custom rebar, hauled some of the long
>> pieces home slung under the pickup... with flags. ;-)
>> Poured concrete at 2.5 slump, plasticized to 6.
>> 30 day strength was about 5K.
>>
>>
>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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[Emc-users] Work Coordinates

[Brian May]

How can I see, what the numbers for the work offsets are and which work
offset I am using?

For example, I can see the the tool offset values in HAL with
motion.tooloffset.x, I would like to display on a Glade side panel - which
work offset is being used and what the values are.

Is this possible?

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Re: [Emc-users] reading Heidenhain scale via exe650

[dave]

On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 16:39:52 -0400
gene heskett  wrote:

> On Tuesday, June 05, 2012 04:34:32 PM David Dyke did opine:
> 
> > I am having some difficulty reading a Heidenhain exe650 with a 5i20/
> > 7i33 combo, I can see counts in hal, but regardless of direction of
> > motion, I only see counting in one direction.
> > I have configured as usual for differential and other feedback is
> > counting correctly, anyone know what I am missing.
> > 
> > Dave
> 
> In order to be able to determine the direction, the input signalS
> must have an A & B phase in some phase progression that reverses when
> the direction reverses.  Do you have that condition, verified by a
> dual trace oscilloscope?
> 
> Cheers, Gene

I'm with Gene, somehow you are not getting both A and B signals thru
hal and into the board. My guess is you can disconnect A and test and
then reconnect A and disconnect B. One of them won't make any
difference and that is where you look for a problem. Since that can
be done in hal it is pretty painless, well as painless as
troubleshooting can be. ;-)
Good luck. 

Dave

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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[Dave]

On 6/5/2012 4:32 PM, gene heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 05, 2012 04:22:05 PM John Thornton did opine:
>
>
>> This was just a cobbled up gen set with a diesel power unit like the
>> kind you see pumping water in a farmers field with a generator from a
>> river tug and a driveshaft. There was no feedback from the generator
>> other than the DMM that the throttle man watched and tried to keep it at
>> 240v...
>>
>> John
>>  
> That is not normally the throttle mans job, to maintain 240 volts, that is
> the regulators job, a relatively easy one since its main load as a control
> was the exciter  current being fed to the slip rings of the rotating field.
>
> Or it was in this rig at any rate.
>
> That one, having a hand throttle, would be an excellent candidate for an
> arduino running some PID sw, driving a stepper motor to stabilize its
> speed.
>
> Cheers, Gene
>

Yep, sounds like it was a jury rig setup at best.But you do what you 
need

The 55 KW natural gas generator I have has a mechanical governor for the 
speed (hz) and a voltage regulator system in the control box.

It seems to work well.   No fancy newfangled CPUs or anything.  ;-)

Dave

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Re: [Emc-users] reading Heidenhain scale via exe650

[gene heskett]

On Tuesday, June 05, 2012 04:34:32 PM David Dyke did opine:

> I am having some difficulty reading a Heidenhain exe650 with a 5i20/
> 7i33 combo, I can see counts in hal, but regardless of direction of
> motion, I only see counting in one direction.
> I have configured as usual for differential and other feedback is
> counting correctly, anyone know what I am missing.
> 
> Dave

In order to be able to determine the direction, the input signalS must have 
an A & B phase in some phase progression that reverses when the direction 
reverses.  Do you have that condition, verified by a dual trace 
oscilloscope?

Cheers, Gene
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: 
Do you guys know what you're doing, or are you just hacking?

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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[gene heskett]

On Tuesday, June 05, 2012 04:22:05 PM John Thornton did opine:

> This was just a cobbled up gen set with a diesel power unit like the
> kind you see pumping water in a farmers field with a generator from a
> river tug and a driveshaft. There was no feedback from the generator
> other than the DMM that the throttle man watched and tried to keep it at
> 240v...
> 
> John

That is not normally the throttle mans job, to maintain 240 volts, that is 
the regulators job, a relatively easy one since its main load as a control 
was the exciter  current being fed to the slip rings of the rotating field.

Or it was in this rig at any rate.

That one, having a hand throttle, would be an excellent candidate for an 
arduino running some PID sw, driving a stepper motor to stabilize its 
speed.

Cheers, Gene
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
My web page: 
Q:  What do you call the scratches that you get when a female
sheep bites you?
A:  Ewe nicks.

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Re: [Emc-users] CNC Tube Bender

[Joseph Chiu]

Under!  Now that's a great idea!


On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 6:26 PM, dave  wrote:

> On Thu, 17 May 2012 12:18:40 -0400
> "Kent A. Reed"  wrote:
>
> > On 5/17/2012 6:43 AM, John Thornton wrote:
> > > Pretty impressive for DIY, too bad they don't know anything about
> > > straightening wire... those lead in rollers are totally wrong if
> > > their intention was to straighten the wire on that plane.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > On 5/16/2012 10:26 PM, Kent A. Reed wrote:
> > >> On 5/16/2012 7:26 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote:
> > >>> I wonder if this uses g-code?
> > >>>
> > >>> http://www.youtube.com/embed/yigRgG_NIyU
> > >>>
> > >> This is very cool. Less impressive, perhaps, but still interesting
> > >> is the DIY wire bender
> > >>
> http://hackaday.com/2012/05/04/diwire-bender-makes-nearly-any-shape-imaginable/
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >> Kent
> > >>
> > >
> >
> > The wire bender has considerable room for improvement but it caught
> > my eye because:
> >
> > Back when Lyndon Johnson was President, I earned tuition money
> > working in office-building construction.
> >
> > Well, I didn't actually work; I was paid to watch others work,
> > functioning as an extra pair of eyes and ears for the job
> > superintendent. One of my tasks was to monitor the subcontractor
> > laying up rebar and formwork and placing concrete (you can imagine
> > how popular I was, still fuzzy cheeked, wearing clean jeans and an
> > even cleaner hardhat, and carrying a notebook!). I got to spend time
> > watching guys with strong backs bending rebar into the byzantine
> > shapes and cages called out in the construction drawings.
> >
> > I understand there's a fair amount of automation now in the
> > straightening, cutting, and bending of rebar. Another "John Henry"
> > story.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kent
> >
> AH, yes, those stories about when we were young. ..
>
> In '87, I built a house. Order custom rebar, hauled some of the long
> pieces home slung under the pickup... with flags. ;-)
> Poured concrete at 2.5 slump, plasticized to 6.
> 30 day strength was about 5K.
>
>
> Dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --
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> > Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> > threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond.
> > Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the
> > latest in malware threats.
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> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] reading Heidenhain scale via exe650

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Tue, 5 Jun 2012, David Dyke wrote:

> Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 12:21:36 -0600
> From: David Dyke 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [Emc-users] reading Heidenhain scale via exe650
> 
> I am having some difficulty reading a Heidenhain exe650 with a 5i20/ 7i33
> combo, I can see counts in hal, but regardless of direction of motion, I
> only see counting in one direction.
> I have configured as usual for differential and other feedback is counting
> correctly, anyone know what I am missing.
>
> Dave


Not sure how qaudrature can count in only one direction. Is it possible you 
have counter in the wrong mode (count mode should be 'false')

If all else fails you can halscope the encoder signals (just figure out which 
GPIO bits the A and B are on, and a slow slew should get a good trace of the 
A,B input signals



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Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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[Emc-users] reading Heidenhain scale via exe650

[David Dyke]

I am having some difficulty reading a Heidenhain exe650 with a 5i20/ 7i33
combo, I can see counts in hal, but regardless of direction of motion, I
only see counting in one direction.
I have configured as usual for differential and other feedback is counting
correctly, anyone know what I am missing.

Dave
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: and Soapbox: 3D Printer Mods?

[Jack Coats]

If you have a few minutes, this is a free assessment from the US Government for
evaluating intellectual property.
  http://www.uspto.gov/inventors/assessment/index.html



><> ... Jack
Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart... Colossians 3:23
"You don't manage people; you manage things. You lead people." —
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- Henry J. Tillman
"Anyone who has never made a mistake, has never tried anything new." -
Albert Einstein

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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[John Thornton]

This was just a cobbled up gen set with a diesel power unit like the 
kind you see pumping water in a farmers field with a generator from a 
river tug and a driveshaft. There was no feedback from the generator 
other than the DMM that the throttle man watched and tried to keep it at 
240v...

John

On 6/5/2012 10:24 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 05, 2012 10:58:41 AM John Thornton did opine:
>
>> Dennis,
>>
>> It was all we could do to run it for 10 minutes and keep it anywhere
>> near 1800 RPM... a real circus that was.
>>
>> John
> The governors on a Cummins 335 we had at KXNE-TV, with a 150kw alternator
> on it, was much closer than that.  Unloaded about 61HZ, 25% 60.3 50% 59.8,
> 75% 60.1, and 100% was when it fell below 59 hZ.  It wasn't big enough for
> two klystrons at full song so we throttled the visual to about 50%, getting
> 58HZ out of it at that load, about 152 kw as I measured it once.  Klystrons
> are hungry beasts, the overall efficiency to get 30kw visual and 6kw aural,
> meant the full song draw was around 250kw.
>
> So decent governors are out there.  This one was purely mechanical but had
> some sort of a coil driven by the regulator rigged up that caused the
> midrange to be pretty smoothly maintained until full throttle was arrived
> at.
>
> As to being able to retrofit a good governor to a fleabay generator, I've
> no clue how co-operative the makers are when the unit is getting long in
> the tooth as I've never needed to try.  Today, I'd be inclined to make it
> out of a UPS running one of those atom boards, running linuxcnc, driving a
> stepper attached to the throttle, probably at 5% of the cost of buying the
> makers stuff.  The encoder watching a phase, the PID module doing the
> controls through a stepgen module, sure seems like the avenue to take to
> me.  If a 60 hz crystal clock can be sourced, one could even phase lock to
> that.
>
>> On 6/4/2012 1:48 PM, ceen...@in-front.com wrote:
>>> Did John run it for an hour or longer to be able to repeat the "only
>>> one hour run time situation"?  I forgot what the capacity of the
>>> borrowed generator was to compare it to a 15HP weak leg system.  Even
>>> if the generator varied in speed and voltage when loaded, one thing
>>> should be fairly certain - the phases should be 120 degrees apart.
>>> That is helpful by itself.
>>>
>>>
>>> Dennis
>>>
He ran it on a Diesel generator, and it did NOT trip.  So, it is
SOMTHING about
the power source.

Jon
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>
> Cheers, Gene

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Re: [Emc-users] Encoder discs

[gene heskett]

On Tuesday, June 05, 2012 11:31:16 AM Mark Wendt did opine:

> On 06/05/2012 10:56 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> >> The dip tube is a 1 3/4" diameter clear tube, with a removable valve
> >> threaded into a stopper.  That plugs into the bottom of the tube. 
> >> I'd plugged the stopper into the tube, climbed up on the step ladder
> >> and began to pour the varnish into the tube.  The tube got about
> >> 3/4's full or so, and the weight of the varnish column pushed the
> >> stopper out.  Big popping sound, and varnish gushing onto the floor.
> >>  Guess I hadn't pushed the stopper in all the way.  ;-)
> > 
> > I think that's called Hindsight. Its always perfect. :) My problem was
> > in thinking it blew out of the top of the tube, and I of course was
> > looking for the cause. :(
> 
> Indeed.  ;-)  20-20 or better.
> 
> > Have you considered using a similar construction but in heavier walled
> > PVC, with the bottom cap glued on with its drain valve, but fitted
> > with an adapter on top that the usual square knobbed plug screws
> > into, with a wire attached to the inside to hold and retrieve the rod
> > with, and a hose barb screwed into the plug so you can attach a cheap
> > refrigeration pump and pull a decent vacuum on it for 15 minutes
> > before letting the air (or better yet, an air displacer gas to
> > preserve the varnish) back in, and letting it sit for another hour to
> > suck the varnish into the pores before you lift the rod out?
> 
> The drain cap needs to be removable to be able to clean the inside of
> the tube and the valve after use.It's a very simple operation
> actually.  The rod is set into the tube, and the drain cock is opened so
> that the varnish drains at the rate of about 3" - 4" per minute.  Leaves
> a nice, even coat of thin varnish on the rod.
 
Ahh, I hadn't considered that, having in mind the thought of a slow lifting 
of the rod to do the same, but my way would expose it to airborne dust, 
your way not so much.

> > No clue what it would do for the action&  feel, but it should result
> > in a more durable rod, quite waterproof should it get dunked as the
> > tip section is prone to be when the net is brought to hand.
> 
> That's the real point behind varnishing a rod - to protect the outer
> surface from outside agencies - dirt, moisture, UV, and other nasty
> things that can harm the cane underneath the varnish.  Plus, a well done
> finish makes the rod.

Absolutely!  I still like the thought of the vacuum impregnation though.
 
> > Actually, with that small a surface exposed to the air, the varnish
> > will probably store right in that tube better than if drained back
> > into the can, just refill when it no longer covers the rod hanging
> > from the wire. Arrange your lifting rig so the wet varnish doesn't
> > get on the threads as the rod is lifted out, put a shot of that
> > carbon dioxide or whatever it is that displaces the oxygen in the
> > ullage above the varnish (Highland Hdwe in Hotlanta has it in their
> > catalog) and it should last for years.  And should you need to make
> > another, stuff to do it is at Lowes, cheap.
> 
> The varnish drains right back into the can, so storage is easy.  A shot
> of Bloxygen at the end of the finishing session keeps the varnish from
> curing in the can.
 
Yup.

Cheers, Gene
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-- Lazarus Long, "Time Enough for Love"

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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[gene heskett]

On Tuesday, June 05, 2012 10:58:41 AM John Thornton did opine:

> Dennis,
> 
> It was all we could do to run it for 10 minutes and keep it anywhere
> near 1800 RPM... a real circus that was.
> 
> John

The governors on a Cummins 335 we had at KXNE-TV, with a 150kw alternator 
on it, was much closer than that.  Unloaded about 61HZ, 25% 60.3 50% 59.8, 
75% 60.1, and 100% was when it fell below 59 hZ.  It wasn't big enough for 
two klystrons at full song so we throttled the visual to about 50%, getting 
58HZ out of it at that load, about 152 kw as I measured it once.  Klystrons 
are hungry beasts, the overall efficiency to get 30kw visual and 6kw aural, 
meant the full song draw was around 250kw. 

So decent governors are out there.  This one was purely mechanical but had 
some sort of a coil driven by the regulator rigged up that caused the 
midrange to be pretty smoothly maintained until full throttle was arrived 
at.

As to being able to retrofit a good governor to a fleabay generator, I've 
no clue how co-operative the makers are when the unit is getting long in 
the tooth as I've never needed to try.  Today, I'd be inclined to make it 
out of a UPS running one of those atom boards, running linuxcnc, driving a 
stepper attached to the throttle, probably at 5% of the cost of buying the 
makers stuff.  The encoder watching a phase, the PID module doing the 
controls through a stepgen module, sure seems like the avenue to take to 
me.  If a 60 hz crystal clock can be sourced, one could even phase lock to 
that.

> On 6/4/2012 1:48 PM, ceen...@in-front.com wrote:
> > Did John run it for an hour or longer to be able to repeat the "only
> > one hour run time situation"?  I forgot what the capacity of the
> > borrowed generator was to compare it to a 15HP weak leg system.  Even
> > if the generator varied in speed and voltage when loaded, one thing
> > should be fairly certain - the phases should be 120 degrees apart. 
> > That is helpful by itself.
> > 
> > 
> > Dennis
> > 
> >>   He ran it on a Diesel generator, and it did NOT trip.  So, it is
> >>   SOMTHING about
> >>   the power source.
> >>   
> >>   Jon
> > 
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Cheers, Gene
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love, n.:
When you like to think of someone on days that begin with a 
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoder discs

[Mark Wendt]

On 06/05/2012 10:56 AM, gene heskett wrote:
>> The dip tube is a 1 3/4" diameter clear tube, with a removable valve
>> threaded into a stopper.  That plugs into the bottom of the tube.  I'd
>> plugged the stopper into the tube, climbed up on the step ladder and
>> began to pour the varnish into the tube.  The tube got about 3/4's full
>> or so, and the weight of the varnish column pushed the stopper out.  Big
>> popping sound, and varnish gushing onto the floor.  Guess I hadn't
>> pushed the stopper in all the way.  ;-)
>>  
>
> I think that's called Hindsight. Its always perfect. :) My problem was in
> thinking it blew out of the top of the tube, and I of course was looking
> for the cause. :(
>
Indeed.  ;-)  20-20 or better.
> Have you considered using a similar construction but in heavier walled PVC,
> with the bottom cap glued on with its drain valve, but fitted with an
> adapter on top that the usual square knobbed plug screws into, with a wire
> attached to the inside to hold and retrieve the rod with, and a hose barb
> screwed into the plug so you can attach a cheap refrigeration pump and pull
> a decent vacuum on it for 15 minutes before letting the air (or better yet,
> an air displacer gas to preserve the varnish) back in, and letting it sit
> for another hour to suck the varnish into the pores before you lift the rod
> out?
>
The drain cap needs to be removable to be able to clean the inside of 
the tube and the valve after use.It's a very simple operation 
actually.  The rod is set into the tube, and the drain cock is opened so 
that the varnish drains at the rate of about 3" - 4" per minute.  Leaves 
a nice, even coat of thin varnish on the rod.
> No clue what it would do for the action&  feel, but it should result in a
> more durable rod, quite waterproof should it get dunked as the tip section
> is prone to be when the net is brought to hand.
>
That's the real point behind varnishing a rod - to protect the outer 
surface from outside agencies - dirt, moisture, UV, and other nasty 
things that can harm the cane underneath the varnish.  Plus, a well done 
finish makes the rod.
> Actually, with that small a surface exposed to the air, the varnish will
> probably store right in that tube better than if drained back into the can,
> just refill when it no longer covers the rod hanging from the wire.
> Arrange your lifting rig so the wet varnish doesn't get on the threads as
> the rod is lifted out, put a shot of that carbon dioxide or whatever it is
> that displaces the oxygen in the ullage above the varnish (Highland Hdwe in
> Hotlanta has it in their catalog) and it should last for years.  And should
> you need to make another, stuff to do it is at Lowes, cheap.
>
The varnish drains right back into the can, so storage is easy.  A shot 
of Bloxygen at the end of the finishing session keeps the varnish from 
curing in the can.
>
>>
>> No need now.  Varnished concrete is easy to clean.  ;-)
>>  
> And slicker than snot on a doorknob when wet...  :)
>
If it's getting wet, I shouldn't be in the shop.  ;-)
>
> Cheers, Gene
>
Mark


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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[Dave]

Sounds like you missed a good opportunity to become a Youtube star - at 
least for the technically minded.  ;-)

Dave

On 6/5/2012 6:51 AM, John Thornton wrote:
> Dennis,
>
> It was all we could do to run it for 10 minutes and keep it anywhere
> near 1800 RPM... a real circus that was.
>
> John
>
> On 6/4/2012 1:48 PM, ceen...@in-front.com wrote:
>
>> Did John run it for an hour or longer to be able to repeat the "only one 
>> hour run time situation"?  I forgot what the capacity of the borrowed 
>> generator was to compare it to a 15HP weak leg system.  Even if the 
>> generator varied in speed and voltage when loaded, one thing should be 
>> fairly certain - the phases should be 120 degrees apart.  That is helpful by 
>> itself.
>>
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>>  
>>>He ran it on a Diesel generator, and it did NOT trip.  So, it is
>>>SOMTHING about
>>>the power source.
>>>
>>>Jon
>>>
>>>
>> --
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>> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
>> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
>> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoder discs

[gene heskett]

On Tuesday, June 05, 2012 10:23:40 AM Mark Wendt did opine:

> On 06/04/2012 02:05 PM, gene heskett wrote:
> > Yeah, its DNA.  Darn it.
> 
> Ah, nuts.
> 
> >> Ever have a gallon of spar varnish come blasting out of a cane rod
> >> "dip" tube?
> > 
> > No, can't say as I have.  What caused that?
> 
> The dip tube is a 1 3/4" diameter clear tube, with a removable valve
> threaded into a stopper.  That plugs into the bottom of the tube.  I'd
> plugged the stopper into the tube, climbed up on the step ladder and
> began to pour the varnish into the tube.  The tube got about 3/4's full
> or so, and the weight of the varnish column pushed the stopper out.  Big
> popping sound, and varnish gushing onto the floor.  Guess I hadn't
> pushed the stopper in all the way.  ;-)
 
I think that's called Hindsight. Its always perfect. :) My problem was in 
thinking it blew out of the top of the tube, and I of course was looking 
for the cause. :(

Have you considered using a similar construction but in heavier walled PVC, 
with the bottom cap glued on with its drain valve, but fitted with an 
adapter on top that the usual square knobbed plug screws into, with a wire 
attached to the inside to hold and retrieve the rod with, and a hose barb 
screwed into the plug so you can attach a cheap refrigeration pump and pull 
a decent vacuum on it for 15 minutes before letting the air (or better yet, 
an air displacer gas to preserve the varnish) back in, and letting it sit 
for another hour to suck the varnish into the pores before you lift the rod 
out?

No clue what it would do for the action & feel, but it should result in a 
more durable rod, quite waterproof should it get dunked as the tip section 
is prone to be when the net is brought to hand.

Actually, with that small a surface exposed to the air, the varnish will 
probably store right in that tube better than if drained back into the can, 
just refill when it no longer covers the rod hanging from the wire.  
Arrange your lifting rig so the wet varnish doesn't get on the threads as 
the rod is lifted out, put a shot of that carbon dioxide or whatever it is 
that displaces the oxygen in the ullage above the varnish (Highland Hdwe in 
Hotlanta has it in their catalog) and it should last for years.  And should 
you need to make another, stuff to do it is at Lowes, cheap.

> >> Makes a concrete garage floor kinda like a skating rink.  I did
> >> get a beautiful shop floor finish out of the deal though...
> > 
> > Chuckle...  Was that your excuse to put down a wooden floor?
> 
> No need now.  Varnished concrete is easy to clean.  ;-)

And slicker than snot on a doorknob when wet...  :)

> Mark

Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: and Soapbox: 3D Printer Mods?

[Dave]

There is a big difference between what is legal, what you can get away 
with, and what actually occurs.

If you copy a patented device and use it in your garage for your own use 
(not making any sales with it), no one is going to come after you if no 
one knows it exists.
Even if the company who owns the patent knows that you have replicated 
their device, what would there motivation be in coming after you?
If there is no motivation, they likely will not come after you, since 
exercising the legal system requires money.   If you are making widgets 
via the patented method and selling them or selling the patented 
machine, and infringing on the patent holders sales, then
there is a very good chance they will come after you.

While the law might be black and white, how it impacts situations is 
entirely different.   There is the right vs wrong according to the law.  
Then there is what actually happens
and that is more determined by money than anything else.

I have a legitimate legal case against a guy right now.   I should be 
able to sue him for $10K and win easily, but it would cost me about $10K 
to do it and then there is the question about
collecting any judgment.   So it is not going to happen even though I 
have suffered damages.   I am better off eating the damages and paying 
to correct the damages myself.  While that might seem "wrong", that is 
the way the system works.

If you write software or make things there is a good chance you have or 
will infringe on someones patent unknowingly.

If that happens and the patent holder finds out and wants to stop you, 
you might get a cease and desist letter which is pretty cheap to 
produce.  If you continue on and the patent holder wants
to stop you, everything gets much more expensive for the patent holder 
at that point.There is no "patent police" who enforce patent law 
without charge.  If you can't afford to enforce a patent, then
IMO, a patent is pretty useless and can even be damaging.Since when 
a patent is filed, you have to disclose the "invention" and it is made 
public, which makes copying the device or process a lot easier.

Oftentimes you are better off not patenting something, and simply using 
that invention for your own purposes as the knowledge will not become 
public via the patent system.

I once invented a patentable control scheme for a machine that was 
unique and allowed us to make the machine at a lower cost than the 
competitors.   These are low volume machines - worldwide perhaps 100 are 
sold annually.  We talked about patenting the idea but after a lot of 
thought we decided not to since the competition was far behind us in 
their methods of control and we knew that if we patented the idea, they 
would become aware of it (or at least it was much more likely).  So we 
never patented the idea. That was about 10 years ago and the competition 
has never figured it out, as they were apparently too busy struggling 
with the economy, and being bought up and sold off.The concepts are 
very simple and common in the electronics world but not understood in 
this machine industry.  The implementation of the idea is not even 
hidden on the machine, it is right out in the open and visible on the 
machine, but a layman would never recognize how it works, so the 
"secret" has been safe for about 10 years now.  The same concept is 
utilized in 4 places on a typical machine, is much more reliable than 
the alternatives, and it saves about $4-5,000 per machine, maybe slighty 
more.

So in this case not patenting the idea was obviously the right approach.

Dave



On 6/4/2012 10:03 PM, Kenneth Lerman wrote:
> On 06/04/2012 08:31 PM, Jeshua Lacock wrote:
>
>> On Jun 4, 2012, at 5:41 PM, dave wrote:
>>
>>  
>>> It has always been my understanding that you can make a patented
>>> device; you just can't sell it. I don't think this precludes using that
>>> patented device to make things which you sell.
>>>
> IANAL and I don't play one on TV. It is my understanding that in the US,
> you may NOT use a process or make a patented device without a license.
> It does not matter whether you sell it or not. At one point there was a
> patent for deactivating hydrogen peroxide for cleaning contact lenses by
> means of a (very small) platinum catalyst. The cleaning kit included a
> license to use that process.
>
> You could not just do it yourself without the license. (Well, you could,
> but you would be infringing on the patent.)
>
> Ken
>
>> Good point.
>>
>> Also, as far as I know, Makerbot et al have not had much of a legal battle 
>> so far. The only incidents I am aware of is a handful of big companies have 
>> sent them cease and desist letters for "things" online at thingverse that 
>> were essentially 3D scans of "copyrighted" geometry.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Jeshua Lacock
>> Founder/Engineer
>> 3DTOPO Incorporated
>> 
>> Phone: 208.462.4171
>>
>>
>> --

Re: [Emc-users] OT: and Soapbox: 3D Printer Mods?

[Alex Hunt]

On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 2:08 AM, Joachim Franek wrote:

> >  I am not sure how the slicing software handles the extruder stepper
> motor, but I would guess it is with G Code.
> http://www.reprap.org/wiki/EmcRepStrap
> My suggestion: we change the postprocessor of the slicing software to fit
> lcnc gcode requirements.
>

Both popular slicing programs (skeinforge and slic3r) treat the extruder as
an axis called 'E'.  This conflicts with LinuxCNC, but is easy to fix.
Each program has an option to rename the axis before the file is output.

In other words, I just have the extruder set up as the 'A' axis.  The
slicing software produces G-code with coordinated moves.  Aside from
calibrating the A axis to move 1mm of filament for 1degree of axis
movement, I've never had to bother with it.

Alex
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Re: [Emc-users] OT: and Soapbox: 3D Printer Mods?

[Joachim Franek]

I forgot:
http://elinux.org/RPi_Expansion_Boards

Maybe this is a stating point:
http://zuzebox.wordpress.com/2012/03/14/userport-for-raspberry-pi-v0-10/

Cheers,
Joachim

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: and Soapbox: 3D Printer Mods?

[Joachim Franek]

On Tuesday 05 June 2012 09:08:34 Joachim Franek wrote:
> Alternatives to avr based boards are:
> - Raspberry Pi

I have in the moment a rpi board from a fried in my hands and 
have seen it booting to a command login.

Looking to 
http://elinux.org/Rpi_Low-level_peripherals
I think there are for a extruder control:
- spi or i2c (for a ad converter)
- 8 pins (for pwm)

see for details:
http://elinux.org/RPi_BCM2835_GPIOs

Driver for spi and i2c:
http://www.bootc.net/archives/2012/05/19/i2c-and-the-raspberry-pi/

Some source code is on the page to drive the pins.

Summary:
It seems to me an overshoot to use so many
cpu power for such a simple task, but the board
is cheap and has a camera interface.

Cheers,
Joachim

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Re: [Emc-users] OT: and Soapbox: 3D Printer Mods?

[Erik Christiansen]

Hi Joachim,

On 05.06.12 09:08, Joachim Franek wrote:
> • 3x temperatur measurement, 12bit resolution (2x nozzle, 1x feader housing)

Is the high resolution needed because the PID temperature controller
needs something like ten times the resolution the control loop is
intended to achieve, much like a machine axis? (Giving something like 9
bits, or +-0.6 °C at 300 °C, IIUC.)

...

> For cheap temperature measurement with 1n4148 up to 400 °C see Bild2 from:
> http://thomaspfeifer.net/laminator_temperatur_regelung.htm

Well, for a quite limited time. Yes, the predictable 2 mv/°C temperature
coefficient of a silicon diode's forward drop is a useful sensor for
temperature measurement. If 10 mv/°C is desired, then we can wire 5 of
them in series, in lieu of adding an op-amp.

But they're typically only rated to 175 °C Absolute Maximum, and 
suffer shortened life even at that temperature. The Arrhenius equation
predicts the accelerated ageing which is observed, and it amounts to a
halving of lifetime for each 10 °C rise in temperature. Already at 175
°C, the diode will last 1/32768 (.3) of the life at 25 °C.

I'm curious to hear how long the diode lasts in practice at 400 °C.
Dopant rediffusion would be erasing the diode junction at a goodly rate,
I fear.

Erik

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Re: [Emc-users] Commutating Reactor

[John Thornton]

Dennis,

It was all we could do to run it for 10 minutes and keep it anywhere 
near 1800 RPM... a real circus that was.

John

On 6/4/2012 1:48 PM, ceen...@in-front.com wrote:
> Did John run it for an hour or longer to be able to repeat the "only one hour 
> run time situation"?  I forgot what the capacity of the borrowed generator 
> was to compare it to a 15HP weak leg system.  Even if the generator varied in 
> speed and voltage when loaded, one thing should be fairly certain - the 
> phases should be 120 degrees apart.  That is helpful by itself.
>
>
> Dennis
>
>
>>   He ran it on a Diesel generator, and it did NOT trip.  So, it is
>>   SOMTHING about
>>   the power source.
>>
>>   Jon
>>
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Re: [Emc-users] Encoder discs

[Mark Wendt]

On 06/04/2012 02:05 PM, gene heskett wrote:
>
> Yeah, its DNA.  Darn it.
>
Ah, nuts.
>
>> Ever have a gallon of spar varnish come blasting out of a cane rod "dip"
>> tube?
>>  
> No, can't say as I have.  What caused that?
>
The dip tube is a 1 3/4" diameter clear tube, with a removable valve 
threaded into a stopper.  That plugs into the bottom of the tube.  I'd 
plugged the stopper into the tube, climbed up on the step ladder and 
began to pour the varnish into the tube.  The tube got about 3/4's full 
or so, and the weight of the varnish column pushed the stopper out.  Big 
popping sound, and varnish gushing onto the floor.  Guess I hadn't 
pushed the stopper in all the way.  ;-)
>
>> Makes a concrete garage floor kinda like a skating rink.  I did
>> get a beautiful shop floor finish out of the deal though...
>>  
> Chuckle...  Was that your excuse to put down a wooden floor?
>
No need now.  Varnished concrete is easy to clean.  ;-)
> Cheers, Gene
>

Mark


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Re: [Emc-users] OT: and Soapbox: 3D Printer Mods?

[Joachim Franek]

On Tuesday 05 June 2012 02:28:48 Jeshua Lacock wrote:
> Personally what I would like to see is:
> 
> • Compatible with existing popular slicing software, filtering with a script 
> is acceptable (but of course not ideal), for instance using the python script 
> at:
> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5233
Yes, but in the long run the scripts functionality is integrated into the 
slicing software.

> • Compatible with "off the shelf" components such as MakerBots newest 
> extruder the MK7:
My setup for 3mm wire is similar: 
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18713924/IMG_3032.JPG
You see the stepper and the driver board connected to the parallel port.
Notice the changed position of the temperature sensor near to the nozzle.
This effects measurement accuracy.
The motor axis has a second axis end for mounting a encoder (not visible).
The flat front face is for a cpu-cooler (maybe with a peltier in between).
I am wondering this reprap wire feeders are running without any monitoring:
my suggestion is a encoder driven by the wire.

My summary of electronics needed:
• Stepper driver (nothing to do, use lcnc usual parts, movement is lcnc driven!)
• Encoder interface (maybe 2x, nothing to do)
• 3x temperatur measurement, 12bit resolution (2x nozzle, 1x feader housing)
• 3x pwm (nozzle, peltier, fan)
My suggestion: something like pmod's: 
http://www.digilentinc.com/Products/Catalog.cfm?NavPath=2,401&Cat=9
and a avr/arm board with eth. You use what you need (price/accuracy).

For cheap temperature measurement with 1n4148 up to 400 °C see Bild2 from:
http://thomaspfeifer.net/laminator_temperatur_regelung.htm


> • And their controller card. If we could eliminate the card with standard CNC 
> hardware, that works too. But this card looks like it essentially just 
> controls the power of the extruder heater.
> http://store.makerbot.com/extruder-controller-v3-6.html
This controller does not fullfill all my requierements. But have thermocouple 
support.
But this is only an advantage, if you use a better ad converter.


> Note the CNC conversion at:
> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5233
I am working on a very similar setup. Have you seen a extruder with MK2-M10 
taper?
And the electronic board has 2 connectors: power and eth. Easy to change.

>  I am not sure how the slicing software handles the extruder stepper motor, 
> but I would guess it is with G Code.
http://www.reprap.org/wiki/EmcRepStrap
My suggestion: we change the postprocessor of the slicing software to fit lcnc 
gcode requirements.

> • Multiple extruder support would be great too, either for increased print 
> speeds and/or different material. That of course can come later.
You can use multiple boards of the above described type or use more pmod's.

My suggestion is to use a pcb board mechanically attached to the extruder with 
a cpu and eth/rs232.
Alternatives to avr based boards are:
- Raspberry Pi
- OLINUXINO (https://github.com/OLIMEX/OLINUXINO from 
http://www.olimex.com/dev/index.html)
- ?

Cpu power is sufficient to run termperature controll.

Cheers,
Joachim

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