Re: [Emc-users] Tormach mill, unique design or Chinese inside?

2014-01-30 Thread Steve Blackmore
On Thu, 30 Jan 2014 01:10:09 -0600, you wrote:


It may be true that Tormach designed the casting, although I don't see 
much need to as there are many existing slug designs. They probably did 
design the sheet metal. But the spindle, belts, pulleys, electronics, 
motors, ball screws, couplers, linear rails, and bearings - you know all 
of the components that actually function - are almost certainly all 
off-the-shelf Chinese components. If they were using brands like IKO or 
THK - surely they'd brag about that (using Japanese parts instead - LOL).

And THK have 5 manufacturing factories in China and three in Korea ;)

Again, I don't have a problem with Chinese components myself. But the 
question I have is... if you find a quality Chinese integrator and 
specify the way the machines must be built, tested, and to what 
tolerances they must meet - does that then make it an American product? 
I guess if you think the iPhone is an American product because Apple 
designed the skin around which the Chinese components are housed, then 
yes. But that would make Mach3 on Windows the equivalent of iTunes on 
iOS, which may not be that much of a stretch - haha.

You could ask that question of most products. I don't have a problem
with Chinese goods either. They are made to a price and the quality
reflects the price you specify. 

Steve Blackmore
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Re: [Emc-users] Conversion Suggesions?

2014-01-30 Thread Mark Wendt
On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote:



  Interesting - yeah works out to around the same price and would be a
 infinity better set up.
  Well, checking on Automation Tech, the same motor is listed at
  $78, I think.  So, I don't know if Keling will honor the $52 price
  still on the Keling web site.  The keling site may now be a zombie
  web site with nobody servicing the orders.
  I notice Lin Engineering seems to have the exact same
  motors, but they don't show prices online.
  Could I use the PWM Servo Amplifier to drive all 4 axes?
  One brushless PWM servo amp will drive each motor, so for 4 axes, you'd
  need 4 servo amps.



Automation Technology is Keling.  The Automation Tech web site is the
current one.  Dunno why John keeps the old site up and running other than
as a visual redirect.  He ought to scrap the entire old site and leave a
dummy page with a link to the new site.

Mark
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[Emc-users] python interface to C

2014-01-30 Thread Josiah Morgan
I have created python script which I have linuxcnc automatically launch via
hal loadusr.
this python script controls the majority of everything linuxcnc does to
make it very specific to what I need for my given scenario using the
functionality described here:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/python-interface.html

I would really like to use c/c++ instead of python to communicate with
linuxcnc.
can someone point me in the right direction of if there is an api/library
for C/C++ containing the same basic functionality as described in the
python interface documentation?  the python documentation hints to the fact
that such a thing exists (possibly with even more functionality) but I
can't seem to find any other documentation to support it.

thanks.

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Re: [Emc-users] python interface to C

2014-01-30 Thread Michael Haberler
Josiah,

Am 30.01.2014 um 15:41 schrieb Josiah Morgan josiahmor...@gmail.com:

 I have created python script which I have linuxcnc automatically launch via
 hal loadusr.
 this python script controls the majority of everything linuxcnc does to
 make it very specific to what I need for my given scenario using the
 functionality described here:
 http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/python-interface.html
 
 I would really like to use c/c++ instead of python to communicate with
 linuxcnc.
 can someone point me in the right direction of if there is an api/library
 for C/C++ containing the same basic functionality as described in the
 python interface documentation?  the python documentation hints to the fact
 that such a thing exists (possibly with even more functionality) but I
 can't seem to find any other documentation to support it.

I can only advise to not go down this path - IMO the underlying NML code is 
deprecated as an API, unsuitable for new code at this point

the Python linuxcnc module abstracts away many of the gory details of NML 

Note that work is underway to remove NML from LinuxCNC completely, meaning any 
C-ish interface will need a substantial rewrite or die out

is very likely the Python linuxcnc interface will see little or no change in 
this process

my recommendation is to warm up to Python instead ;)

- Michael

 
 thanks.
 
 -- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Tormach mill, unique design or Chinese inside?

2014-01-30 Thread Kirk Wallace
On 01/29/2014 11:10 PM, Len Shelton wrote:

... snip

 It may be true that Tormach designed the casting, although I don't see
 much need to as there are many existing slug designs.

Then it would be a Chinese machine with Tormach's name on it. It's a 
Tormach machine which happens to be made in China.

  They probably did
 design the sheet metal. But the spindle, belts, pulleys, electronics,
 motors, ball screws, couplers, linear rails, and bearings - you know all
 of the components that actually function - are almost certainly all
 off-the-shelf Chinese components.

The design and specs come first, if there is an off the shelf part that 
meets the specs, they use it, if not, they figure out how to get it made.

  If they were using brands like IKO or
 THK - surely they'd brag about that (using Japanese parts instead - LOL).

 There are actually some really nice Chinese controllers being produced
 for cheap, so why they are still using Mach3 is beyond me.

Mach3 is used mostly because that's what their customers expect and want.

  And here is a
 fun fact: If the Chinese factories want even better quality, they
 actually import components from Taiwan, which has about a 40 year lead
 over Chinese manufacturing technology.

 Again, I don't have a problem with Chinese components myself. But the
 question I have is... if you find a quality Chinese integrator and
 specify the way the machines must be built, tested, and to what
 tolerances they must meet - does that then make it an American product?
 I guess if you think the iPhone is an American product because Apple
 designed the skin around which the Chinese components are housed, then
 yes. But that would make Mach3 on Windows the equivalent of iTunes on
 iOS, which may not be that much of a stretch - haha.

   Len

An Apple product is an Apple product because you get a customer 
experience that is unique to Apple. It's like the difference between 
Snap-On, Craftsman, and Who-Knows tools, just from the name there is a 
different expectation of performance and value, based on reputation.


 I have a PCNC770 in my shop. I can't speak officially for Tormach but
 indications are that Tormach creates all of design and specifications
 and outsources the manufacture. Their engineering documents on the
 website and the offering of training classes shows that the products are
 theirs from beginning to end.

 (I am biased)


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http://www.wallacecompany.com/E45/

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Re: [Emc-users] python interface to C

2014-01-30 Thread Sebastian Kuzminsky
On 1/30/14 08:18 , Michael Haberler wrote:
 Josiah,

 Am 30.01.2014 um 15:41 schrieb Josiah Morgan josiahmor...@gmail.com:

 I have created python script which I have linuxcnc automatically launch via
 hal loadusr.
 this python script controls the majority of everything linuxcnc does to
 make it very specific to what I need for my given scenario using the
 functionality described here:
 http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/python-interface.html

 I would really like to use c/c++ instead of python to communicate with
 linuxcnc.
 can someone point me in the right direction of if there is an api/library
 for C/C++ containing the same basic functionality as described in the
 python interface documentation?  the python documentation hints to the fact
 that such a thing exists (possibly with even more functionality) but I
 can't seem to find any other documentation to support it.

 I can only advise to not go down this path - IMO the underlying NML code is 
 deprecated as an API, unsuitable for new code at this point

 the Python linuxcnc module abstracts away many of the gory details of NML

 Note that work is underway to remove NML from LinuxCNC completely, meaning 
 any C-ish interface will need a substantial rewrite or die out

It'd be great to have a C API to LinuxCNC, hiding the NML 
ugliness/replacement, comparable to the Python API.


-- 
Sebastian Kuzminsky

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[Emc-users] Gcode to a keystroke

2014-01-30 Thread Jim Wilkin
I would like to make a gcode Say G133 or M64 to perform the key stroke
ctl+space to clear the MSG and DBUG messages.

I'm unable to find a pin to do this.

Perhaps it has all ready been done?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Keep up the good work.
Jim

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Re: [Emc-users] Conversion Suggesions?

2014-01-30 Thread Jon Elson
On 01/30/2014 04:23 AM, Mark Wendt wrote:
 Automation Technology is Keling. The Automation Tech web 
 site is the current one. Dunno why John keeps the old site 
 up and running other than as a visual redirect. He ought 
 to scrap the entire old site and leave a dummy page with a 
 link to the new site.
Yes, it is a real problem that he has two web stores with
SIGNIFICANTLY different prices on the same items.

I wonder if the Keling site is a zombie that no one has access
to anymore?

Jon

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Re: [Emc-users] Gcode to a keystroke

2014-01-30 Thread Sebastian Kuzminsky
On 1/30/14 08:50 , Jim Wilkin wrote:
 I would like to make a gcode Say G133 or M64 to perform the key stroke
 ctl+space to clear the MSG and DBUG messages.

 I'm unable to find a pin to do this.

 Perhaps it has all ready been done?

 Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I think there's currently no easy way to do this, but it looks like it'd 
be pretty straight forward to implement.

But i must ask, what is the use case for this?  What problem are you 
trying to solve by clearing gui messages from gcode?


If you want to implement this, i'd suggest:

* add a new command-line argument to axis-remote to send a new message 
to axis,

* add the matching handler for that message in axis' TclCommands.remote()

* the handler would call Notifications.clear(), just like Ctrl-Space does


Then you can add a custom M-code script to call axis-remote 
--clear-messages.


-- 
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Re: [Emc-users] Gcode to a keystroke

2014-01-30 Thread andy pugh
On 30 January 2014 15:50, Jim Wilkin james.a.wil...@gmail.com wrote:
 I would like to make a gcode Say G133 or M64 to perform the key stroke
 ctl+space to clear the MSG and DBUG messages.

 I'm unable to find a pin to do this.

I think Axis has this pin
http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py;h=ca7945fdbf12c88309cc508d54c818a79c48eec5;hb=HEAD

Seems to contain a notifications-clear HAL pin.

-- 
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[Emc-users] PNCConf truncating metric screw pitch

2014-01-30 Thread Stephen Dubovsky
We're using Mesa 5i25+7i76s in a couple Emco stepper based machines w/
2.5mm pitch leadscrews.  PNCConf seems to be truncating that 2.5 back to
2.0 every time we revisit the step calculator page (the pop-up where you
check off/enter the pulley info, step multiplier, etc.) that calculates the
main steps/unit box.  It seems to get it right when you enter it as 2.5,
but if you go back though sometime later (say to change the microstep
multiplier), it shows 2.0 and you have to catch that and fix it every
time.  FWIW, I'm running the latest release (2.5.3)

SMD
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Re: [Emc-users] Gcode to a keystroke

2014-01-30 Thread Jim Wilkin
Thank you Sebastion,

This is for my new to me EMCO compact 5 cnc lathe retrofit.

I use a lot of o word loops in my programs.

When debugging if I get more than four messages ,they start to scroll
over my tool changer information.

So I thought if I could clear the messages just before I sent a new one
they wouldn't scroll ,making a cleaner display.

I will study what you suggest and see what I can come up with.

On 01/30/2014 01:51 PM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote:
 On 1/30/14 08:50 , Jim Wilkin wrote:
 I would like to make a gcode Say G133 or M64 to perform the key stroke
 ctl+space to clear the MSG and DBUG messages.

 I'm unable to find a pin to do this.

 Perhaps it has all ready been done?

 Any suggestions would be appreciated.
 
 I think there's currently no easy way to do this, but it looks like it'd 
 be pretty straight forward to implement.
 
 But i must ask, what is the use case for this?  What problem are you 
 trying to solve by clearing gui messages from gcode?
 
 
 If you want to implement this, i'd suggest:
 
 * add a new command-line argument to axis-remote to send a new message 
 to axis,
 
 * add the matching handler for that message in axis' TclCommands.remote()
 
 * the handler would call Notifications.clear(), just like Ctrl-Space does
 
 
 Then you can add a custom M-code script to call axis-remote 
 --clear-messages.
 
 

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Re: [Emc-users] Gcode to a keystroke

2014-01-30 Thread Stephen Dubovsky
On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 2:24 PM, Jim Wilkin james.a.wil...@gmail.comwrote:

 Thank you Sebastion,

 This is for my new to me EMCO compact 5 cnc lathe retrofit.



Hey!  Im currently doing three of these!  I have one machine up and running
w/ Mesa boards, new steppers+drivers, D525MW, and an ELO touchscreen.  Only
thing I reused is the power supply (though i think I may reuse the spindle
drive on the next one.)  I've figured out the spindle encoder feedback so
should have that fixed and up and running this weekend (note: there are NO
current limiting resistors for the diodes in the potted sensor block;))

Stephen
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Re: [Emc-users] Conversion Suggesions?

2014-01-30 Thread Viesturs Lācis
2014-01-30 Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com:

 Or perhaps this driver:
 http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema23/dc-brushless-driver-for-kl23bls-115


Does anyone have experience with these drives? I have few servo motors
whose current requirements are too large for 7i39 drive, so this one looks
really tempting. But I feel reserved about the motor position feedback. So
what functionality does it have? Only commutating current in phases? I feel
confident that no feedback loop is closed in the drives.

So are these drives any good?

Viesturs
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Re: [Emc-users] Gcode to a keystroke

2014-01-30 Thread Dewey Garrett
Perhaps it has all ready been done?

if you use the axis gui, it has pins:
   bit IN FALSE  axisui.notifications-clear
   bit IN FALSE  axisui.notifications-clear-error
   bit IN FALSE  axisui.notifications-clear-info


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Re: [Emc-users] Conversion Suggesions?

2014-01-30 Thread Dave Cole
On 1/30/2014 2:44 PM, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
 2014-01-30 Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com:

 Or perhaps this driver:
 http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema23/dc-brushless-driver-for-kl23bls-115

 Does anyone have experience with these drives? I have few servo motors
 whose current requirements are too large for 7i39 drive, so this one looks
 really tempting. But I feel reserved about the motor position feedback. So
 what functionality does it have? Only commutating current in phases? I feel
 confident that no feedback loop is closed in the drives.

 So are these drives any good?

 Viesturs


I think that drive is targeted for the speed control market, not the 
servo positioning market.

The hint is: pot control with external 5 volt control available

Plus no mention of servo control, and it is only a 2 quadrant drive so 
it cannot regenerate power back into the power supply.

A 4 quadrant drive is required for that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Four_quadrant_motion_control_of_a_motor.jpg

Dave

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Re: [Emc-users] Conversion Suggesions?

2014-01-30 Thread andy pugh
On 30 January 2014 22:23, Dave Cole linuxcncro...@gmail.com wrote:

 The hint is: pot control with external 5 volt control available

However, it might still work. LinuxCNC can output speed-dir if needed.

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Re: [Emc-users] Conversion Suggesions?

2014-01-30 Thread Dave Cole
Except that if you put it on an axis and you wanted to stop, the drive 
could not apply braking torque..
I can't imagine that working on a servo axis.   Even steppers can apply 
braking torque.

Dave

On 1/30/2014 5:44 PM, andy pugh wrote:
 On 30 January 2014 22:23, Dave Cole linuxcncro...@gmail.com wrote:

 The hint is: pot control with external 5 volt control available
 However, it might still work. LinuxCNC can output speed-dir if needed.


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Re: [Emc-users] Conversion Suggesions?

2014-01-30 Thread andy pugh
On 30 January 2014 23:58, Dave Cole linuxcncro...@gmail.com wrote:
 Except that if you put it on an axis and you wanted to stop, the drive
 could not apply braking torque..

Surely there is no torque only when there is no position error. With
the slightest hint of overshoot the motor will be applied in reverse?
(unless when they talk of 2-quadrant control they really do mean that
the motor will only provide torque in the current direction of motion,
which would, on the face of it, be hard to enforce with only
hall-sensor commutation)

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Re: [Emc-users] Conversion Suggesions?

2014-01-30 Thread Gene Heskett
On Thursday 30 January 2014 20:28:27 Dave Cole did opine:

 Except that if you put it on an axis and you wanted to stop, the drive
 could not apply braking torque..
 I can't imagine that working on a servo axis.   Even steppers can apply
 braking torque.
 
 Dave

I do, by making hal apply a staged dynamic braking load, so even with all 
that weight, I can do the reversal at the left end of a G33.1 in a hair 
over 2 seconds.  From 350 rpm.
 
 On 1/30/2014 5:44 PM, andy pugh wrote:
  On 30 January 2014 22:23, Dave Cole linuxcncro...@gmail.com wrote:
  The hint is: pot control with external 5 volt control available
  
  However, it might still work. LinuxCNC can output speed-dir if needed.
 
 
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NOTICE: Will pay 100 USD for an HP-4815A defective but
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Re: [Emc-users] Conversion Suggesions?

2014-01-30 Thread Dave Cole
On 1/30/2014 7:08 PM, andy pugh wrote:
 On 30 January 2014 23:58, Dave Cole linuxcncro...@gmail.com wrote:
 Except that if you put it on an axis and you wanted to stop, the drive
 could not apply braking torque..
 Surely there is no torque only when there is no position error. With
 the slightest hint of overshoot the motor will be applied in reverse?
 (unless when they talk of 2-quadrant control they really do mean that
 the motor will only provide torque in the current direction of motion,
 which would, on the face of it, be hard to enforce with only
 hall-sensor commutation)

Here is a link that Keling has for a similar motor.

http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/dc-brushless-motor/kl34bls-series-12

At the bottom of the page is a another link showing how it can be 
controlled with a LPT breakoutboard and Mach3.

http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2014/01/2-Quadrant-BLDC-speed-driver-ver.-48ZWSK50-B-804-1.pdf

They have that wired similar to what someone would for a spindle drive 
control via Mach3.

No positioning control, just speed.

What else is odd about this diagram is that the C10 board does not have 
an analog output on it..   So they must be configuring Mach3 to send a 
PWM signal to the SV pin on the drive??

But apparently it works with that driver.

Dave

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