[Emc-users] Major lags when zeroing axes
I work a lot with 3D carving. The files are often quite huge. When I go to zero the work coordinates, EACH axis results in recalculating the entire file, which can take minutes. Really it shouldn't require any recalculation (Mach3 doesn't) since it's just offsetting the coordinates, but I can imagine how the coding could try to do that. Is there any way around it? Also, minor note, but I don't see any way to UNLOAD the file so I can zero the work coordinates without interference. All I could do was open a dummy file instead. Danny -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] G0 vs G1-specific functions?
Two-parter here: I was looking over another carving job on the preview window and realized there's really no way to tell where the work is. That is, we go up to Z=2" for the start/end coords, but I need to know where the carving itself starts. It's shown in a different color because it's all G1 (or G1 arcs) vs G0. But the limits are shown only for the limits of G1 AND G1 travel. Can the preview show the limits of G1 only? In a similar thread, I'm doing 3D carving with some aggressive acceleration profiles. The XHC mpg is SUPER rough when stepping around, it's supposed to allow you to use different accelerations for mpg inputs, but none of that section has ever worked. The mpg works but the section's options don't. So, I should try again to figure out why it won't take the XHC options, but I started to think differently- we have different speeds for G0 and G1. Wouldn't it make sense to have different accelerations too? See, that 3D carving, I'm tuning my machine for like 150 ipm right now, it may not make sense to carve faster than that, but I do need to maximize acceleration. Thing is, if you tune for max acceleration the motors can do without a stall at 150 ipm, then the 600 ipm rapids WILL stall it because it uses the same accelerations. I can just limit rapids to 150 ipm so they agree with the G1 acceleration limit chosen, but then it has no "rapids" per se, and setting the machine up is a chore. So, is there a way to have RAPID_ACCELERATION (for G0 alone) as a separate thing from MAX_ACCELERATION for the axes, used for G1 motion? Danny -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Major lags when zeroing axes
On 27 June 2016 at 09:16, Danny Miller wrote: > When I go to zero the work coordinates, EACH axis results in > recalculating the entire file, which can take minutes. The delay is actually probably the toolpath preview (and limits check) updating. The motion system doesn't need to read the whole file before starting. Unfortunately the system still needs to do a point-by-point limits check with the new starting position. You can turn off the preview and limits check, but that's not much of a solution. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Major lags when zeroing axes
You could use G10 L2 to set the work coordinates for all the axis you want to change in a single command, so that you only have to do the resample once. - Original Message - From: "andy pugh" To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 5:54:11 AM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Major lags when zeroing axes On 27 June 2016 at 09:16, Danny Miller wrote: > When I go to zero the work coordinates, EACH axis results in > recalculating the entire file, which can take minutes. The delay is actually probably the toolpath preview (and limits check) updating. The motion system doesn't need to read the whole file before starting. Unfortunately the system still needs to do a point-by-point limits check with the new starting position. You can turn off the preview and limits check, but that's not much of a solution. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] G0 vs G1-specific functions?
On 27 June 2016 at 09:41, Danny Miller wrote: > > So, is there a way to have RAPID_ACCELERATION (for G0 alone) as a > separate thing from MAX_ACCELERATION for the axes, used for G1 motion? Possibly. There are HAL pins to control acceleration. However they are not read during program execution. I don't know whether this will work (and can't test it here) but maybe this is worth an experiment? loadrt mux2 ... addf mux2.0.servo-thread ... net accel-sel halui.mode.is-auto => mux2.0.sel setp mux2.0.in0 100 setp mux2.0.in1 1 net accel-selected mux2.0.out => ini.traj_default_acceleration -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Moving axis while paused
I would say that the "proper answer" is to teach the users to properly use holding-tabs, hold-downs, etc. such that there are never parts popping free. Being a hobbyist or "one time/occasional user" is no excuse for poor or dangerous technique. On Sun, Jun 26, 2016 at 6:40 PM, sam sokolik wrote: > take a look at the moveoff component. It is a 'jog while paused' work > around. (it actually works pretty darn good) > > there are a few sample configs also > > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/moveoff.html > > sam > > On 06/26/2016 05:36 PM, Danny Miller wrote: > > Recently discovered this: > > > > When paused, the axes can't be moved by the user. > > > > While that sounds like a safe protection at first, that's actually a > > critical problem. It is not uncommon to have to "fix" something > > mid-run. In a few cases I've seen the CNC router pop freed pieces out > > and they land on the target of a plunge. When that happens, the bit > > plunged into it and you have an unbalanced chunk of wood free-spinning > > on the bit. > > > > > > The proper answer to that is to pause, stop the spindle, lift the Z > > enough to get the debris off the spindle, return to where the bit left > > off, restart spindle, and resume. But, like I say, manual control of > > the axes is locked out and I can't fix it. > > > > > > Danny > > > > > > > -- > > Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San > > Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries > > present their vision of the future. This family event has something for > > everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. > > http://sdm.link/attshape > > ___ > > Emc-users mailing list > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > > > > -- > Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San > Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries > present their vision of the future. This family event has something for > everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. > http://sdm.link/attshape > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] G0 vs G1-specific functions?
Hmm, interesting, but that's only to reduce accel in manual mode, right? It'd reduce shaking while using the mpg, but the G0 moves in the g-code would create motor stalls if used at full speed. I'm wondering if all G0 and manual input could be a mode of higher speed but more limited in acceleration. I know a lot of people have noted that the standard trapezoidal accel profile doesn't follow the physical properties of the motor (less torque at higher speed=more at lower), but nontrapezoidal profiles with variable acceleration are exceedingly complicated to build into motion control. But it seems that just separating out G0 and G1 with two separate trapezoidal modes gets you like 90% of the way there. Is there any HAL component that can tell if it's running as G0 or G1? Would it make sense for HAL to use the current velocity to reduce acceleration, thus creating a nontrapezoidal profile? I think I can see how the HAL could do that, but I think it would break the motion control & trajectory planner outright. Danny andy pugh wrote: > On 27 June 2016 at 09:41, Danny Miller wrote: > > So, is there a way to have RAPID_ACCELERATION (for G0 alone) as a > separate thing from MAX_ACCELERATION for the axes, used for G1 motion? Possibly. There are HAL pins to control acceleration. However they are not read during program execution. I don't know whether this will work (and can't test it here) but maybe this is worth an experiment? loadrt mux2 ... addf mux2.0.servo-thread ... net accel-sel halui.mode.is-auto => mux2.0.sel setp mux2.0.in0 100 setp mux2.0.in1 1 net accel-selected mux2.0.out => ini.traj_default_acceleration -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] G0 vs G1-specific functions?
On 06/27/2016 02:41 AM, Danny Miller wrote: > In a similar thread, I'm doing 3D carving with some aggressive > acceleration profiles. The XHC mpg is SUPER rough when stepping around, > it's supposed to allow you to use different accelerations for mpg > inputs, but none of that section has ever worked. The mpg works but the > section's options don't. If the behavior doesn't match the documentation, that's a bug, please log it on the github issue tracker: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/issues On the MPG on my machines I use ilowpass to smooth the output of the jog wheel before sending it to LinuxCNC. One click from the MPG becomes a smoothly accelerating & decelerating curve of 1000 clicks (each 1/1000 the size) going out of ilowpass and into motion. This makes the MPG motion much smoother. Here's an example of using ilowpass with an MPG: https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/configs/common/shuttle.hal#L215 -- Sebastian Kuzminsky -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] G0 vs G1-specific functions?
On 06/27/2016 09:09 AM, dan...@austin.rr.com wrote: > Is there any HAL component that can tell if it's running as G0 or G1? The pin motion.motion-type, described here: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/motion.9.html "traverse" (1) is a G0, "linear feed" (2) is a G1, and "arc feed" (3) is G2/G3. -- Sebastian Kuzminsky -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Moving axis while paused
On 27 June 2016 at 15:28, Chris Kelley wrote: > I would say that the "proper answer" is to teach the users to properly use > holding-tabs, hold-downs, etc That reminds me, I used holding tabs a lot in CamBam, but haven't even found them in Fusion360 or Inventor HSM. I wonder if they are there to be found? However, to say that it is possible to never need to stop a job part-way through to fix something is, I think, going a bit far. As I recall the moveoff component was written after a request from a commercial roll-machining company who wanted to be able to change chipped or worn tips mid-job. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] G0 vs G1-specific functions?
Can the acceleration be changed dynamically through HAL and still work properly? Because say the traj planner looks 10 moves ahead, and it's 2x G1 followed by 3x G0 moves then 5x G1. It forms a plan based on the acceleration rules. But when it hits the 3rd command, the HAL suddenly changes the acceleration rule, invalidating the existing plan. If the traj planner sticks with the preexisting traj plan and only uses the current HAL accel limits to replan the new moves after the current plan is executed, that won't work. There would be G0 moves which have excess accel that could stall the motors. Danny Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote: > On 06/27/2016 09:09 AM, dan...@austin.rr.com wrote: > > Is there any HAL component that can tell if it's running as G0 or G1? > > The pin motion.motion-type, described here: > > http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/motion.9.html > > "traverse" (1) is a G0, "linear feed" (2) is a G1, and "arc feed" (3) is > G2/G3. > > > -- > Sebastian Kuzminsky > > -- > Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San > Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries > present their vision of the future. This family event has something for > everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. > http://sdm.link/attshape > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] G0 vs G1-specific functions?
On 27 June 2016 at 17:00, wrote: > Can the acceleration be changed dynamically through HAL and still work > properly? I don't think that the system even looks at the acceleration pins when the machine is running G-code. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Major lags when zeroing axes
Yeah I don't expect any immediate solution, but this is a significant problem which doesn't need to be. If you've done an X-offset by +2", then the limits check and live preview just needs to offset by +2". They don't need to recalculate every line of g-code. Unless, of course, you use a G10 P0 R1, which rotates the coordinate system. For that, you'd have to recalc all the g-code because that geometry is specific to the file. I figured the preview/limits would exist in machine coordinates. If we're calculating to make sure the g-code doesn't exceed machine travel, then work coordinates don't make sense. In that case the work offset gets applied for preview & work size display and there's no reason to recalc the machine coordinates. Now if you rehomed the machine coords, I can see why you might just recalc the g-code instead of writing special-case code to "fix" the prior calc of g-code. For the most part people would have the machine coords homed before loading a g-code design, and only alter work offsets after that, so that's a pretty special case to accommodate a change in machine coords on the fly. Danny andy pugh wrote: > On 27 June 2016 at 09:16, Danny Miller wrote: > When I go to zero the work coordinates, EACH axis results in > recalculating the entire file, which can take minutes. The delay is actually probably the toolpath preview (and limits check) updating. The motion system doesn't need to read the whole file before starting. Unfortunately the system still needs to do a point-by-point limits check with the new starting position. You can turn off the preview and limits check, but that's not much of a solution. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Moving axis while paused
Andy, They're in the "Tabs" item in the Geometry tab of the 2D Contour CAM operation. They may also be in other CAM operations but I haven't run into them yet. Drew On 6/27/16 8:56 AM, andy pugh wrote: > On 27 June 2016 at 15:28, Chris Kelley wrote: >> I would say that the "proper answer" is to teach the users to properly use >> holding-tabs, hold-downs, etc > That reminds me, I used holding tabs a lot in CamBam, but haven't even > found them in Fusion360 or Inventor HSM. I wonder if they are there to > be found? > > However, to say that it is possible to never need to stop a job > part-way through to fix something is, I think, going a bit far. As I > recall the moveoff component was written after a request from a > commercial roll-machining company who wanted to be able to change > chipped or worn tips mid-job. > -- Drew Rogge d...@dasrogges.com Phone: 8934OOO629OO4829631OOO -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Major lags when zeroing axes
On 27 June 2016 at 17:16, wrote: > Yeah I don't expect any immediate solution, but this is a significant problem > which doesn't need to be. If you've done an X-offset by +2", then the limits > check and live preview just needs to offset by +2". They don't need to > recalculate every line of g-code. The check is that all move end-points are inside the joint limits. it doesn't keep a record of how close each point was to the limit to know if the coordinate system change is enough to cause a limit violation. I guess it would be possible to keep a record of the maximum extents of the currently-loaded file and use those limits in the case of a coordinate system change. I think you can abort the preview with "esc", though that is another incomplete solution. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Major lags when zeroing axes
You can not just shift the extents by +2" on a non-cartesian machine - you have to recheck every point. We tend to forget how complex the general case can be when we're used to running cartesian mills/routers. Stephen On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 1:18 PM, andy pugh wrote: > On 27 June 2016 at 17:16, wrote: > > Yeah I don't expect any immediate solution, but this is a significant > problem which doesn't need to be. If you've done an X-offset by +2", then > the limits check and live preview just needs to offset by +2". They don't > need to recalculate every line of g-code. > > The check is that all move end-points are inside the joint limits. it > doesn't keep a record of how close each point was to the limit to know > if the coordinate system change is enough to cause a limit violation. > > I guess it would be possible to keep a record of the maximum extents > of the currently-loaded file and use those limits in the case of a > coordinate system change. > > I think you can abort the preview with "esc", though that is another > incomplete solution. > > -- > atp > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > lunatics." > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 > > > -- > Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San > Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries > present their vision of the future. This family event has something for > everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. > http://sdm.link/attshape > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Moving axis while paused
I've worked with a number of CNC router users on a bunch of jobs. I had to change my beliefs along the way, based on experience. Tabs are often a huge liability. They are a lot of work to cut, leave a finish problem where they were cut off, and sometimes tear out the work when you move the sheet off the router. Wood is often warped and the tabs may not render at all anyhow. With some bits and materials, you just don't need tabs, the cut piece stays in place. Many skilled users don't do them. Popped pieces can sometimes happen, but they can happen WITH tabs too if the sheet lifts and breaks them. So there's no "tabs are the only proper way" rule to it. There will always be a need to pause the machine, fix something which involves a move, and resume. I'll work on this "moveoff" component then. Danny andy pugh wrote: > On 27 June 2016 at 15:28, Chris Kelley wrote: > I would say that the "proper answer" is to teach the users to properly use > holding-tabs, hold-downs, etc That reminds me, I used holding tabs a lot in CamBam, but haven't even found them in Fusion360 or Inventor HSM. I wonder if they are there to be found? However, to say that it is possible to never need to stop a job part-way through to fix something is, I think, going a bit far. As I recall the moveoff component was written after a request from a commercial roll-machining company who wanted to be able to change chipped or worn tips mid-job. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] G0 vs G1-specific functions?
> On the MPG on my machines I use ilowpass to smooth the output of the jog > wheel before sending it to LinuxCNC. In addition to the userspace module for the xhc-hb04 pendant, LinuxCNC provides helper scripts that provide two ways to smooth stepped motion requested by an xhc-hb04 pendant. Usage is demonstrated in simulation configs available as usual from the configuratoin selector at: Sample Configurations/sim/axis/xhc-hb04 The configuration directory includes a .txt file for the supplied configurations and a README to help in adapting a sim example to a hardware configuration. The first method provided uses a lowpass filter for each axis with its time constant set using the ini item: [XHC_HB04_CONFIG]coefs=. A coef value of 1 indicates no filtering, decreasing the value sets an increasing time constant value. The behavior is adapted from the lowpass component (ref: man lowpass) so for a typical servo period of 1mS, a 1Hz bandwidth is realized with coef=0.0063. The second method uses a multiplexer to alter the axis acceleration (hal pins like ini.N.max_acceleration) when not in manual mode. The acceleration values for manual mode are set using the ini item [XHC_HB04]mpg_accels= and enabled with a separate setting [APPLICATIONS]APP=xhc-hb04-accels. To illustrate the behavior, i've used the xhc-hb04-layout2.ini configuration with LinuxCNC 2.7.4 and halscope to capture a velocity profile. All tests were done on the X axis using the xhc-hb04-layout2.ini sim configuration, LinuxCNC 2.7.4, and settings: [AXIS_X]MAX_ACCELERATION=20, pendant set for: stepsize = 20 (0.020 inches per step) Photos are at: http://www.panix.com/~dgarrett/stuff/xhc-hb04/ 0.png Reference, shows a g0x1 mdi move (starting at x=0). The ini setting for acceleration (=20) is used. Note that pendant values for coefs and mpg_accels are not used during mdi or auto (gcode program) motions. The next two screengrabs were made using the xhc-hb04-layout2.ini configuration with the [XHC_HB04]mpg_accels line disabled (commented out with a leading #). Each shows the X axis speed over a single full rotation of the jog wheel (comparable to the mdi move above, about 1.0 inch travel) 1.png Jog wheel, no mpg_accels, coef=1 (for the X axis) 2.png jog wheel, no mpg_accels, coef=0.0063 (for the X axis) Note that when using this method, filtering the steps with a reduced coef value smooths the velocity profile but the acceleration is still stepped at its set (=20) value. On a large machine with high acceleration, reducing the coef enough to alleviate the jerkiness may result in wheel response that is considered too sluggish. (The jagged edges in the velocity trace are due to the human turning the wheel.) The final screengrab uses the xhc-hb04-layout2.ini configuration with no edits to illustrate the use of the [XHC_HB04]mpg_accels= feature. The coef value for the X axis is 1 (no filtering) but the mpg_accel value for the X axis is a small value (=1) compared to the normal acceleration (=20) 3.png jog wheel, using mpg_accels=1 (for the X axis) In the photo, the reduced acceleration allows a smooth response usin a an acceleration reduced by a factor of 20. For a real machine, some experimentation may be required to determine suitable values for the coef= and mpg_accels= settings for each axis. References: README for adapting sim configurations: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=configs/sim/axis/xhc-hb04/README;h=5565c26bb0863b31ba0ae37ef581ac13eef8a562;hb=refs/heads/2.7 txt file for xhc-hb04-layout2 configuration: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=blob;f=configs/sim/axis/xhc-hb04/xhc-hb04-layout2.txt;h=645cd93dbc63045eded48e36ede85fc36fccbc72;hb=refs/heads/2.7 man page for lowpass component has equations for computing coef values http://linuxcnc.org/docs/master/html/man/man9/lowpass.9.html man page for the xhc-hb04 userspace module: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.7/html/man/man1/xhc-hb04.1.html -- Dewey Garrett -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Moving axis while paused
On 06/27/2016 11:56 AM, andy pugh wrote: > However, to say that it is possible to never need to stop a job > part-way through to fix something is, I think, going a bit far. As I > recall the moveoff component was written after a request from a > commercial roll-machining company who wanted to be able to change > chipped or worn tips mid-job. And You would be correct Andy, I don't know if he did it specifically for us, but we are the shop that Dewey wrote that component for. As for the component itself, it works fairly well, it is more of an incremental jog while program is paused, rather than a straight jog off of what you are machining, takes a little getting used to but after you get the hang of it, it works pretty good. The one major thing in regards to the component is, is that it DOES NOT OBEY MACHINE SOFT LIMITS, so if you are in the process of moving the axis with the component during a feed-hold, you can park your machine on a hard limit over-travel very easily, and this is stated in the component. It is very easy to implement into a config, add the proper section to the Applications section of the INI, then add the relevant sections to each individual axis for the machine, and it is off to the races. If you need any help, let me know. Rick -- Thanks Rick Lair Superior Roll & Turning LLC 399 East Center Street Petersburg MI, 49270 PH: 734-279-1831 FAX: 734-279-1166 www.superiorroll.com -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Moving axis while paused
Our router has a thick MDF spoil-board that material gets wood-screwed down to. We had an old machine that had T-slots but they were never in the right position or we never had enough hold-down clamps. Our members/users are taught to either use enough screws so that warped material is held flat before, during, and after cutting or to use material that isn't warped. For holding tabs, we simply use a flush-cut router bit on a manual router table to clean them up very quickly with just as good of surface finish as the CNC left. To prevent the tabs breaking and tearing the parts while removing the parts and skeleton from the table, we simply use a sharp wood chisel to cut the tabs while still on the table. Then the parts can be removed separately and without damage. On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 12:33 PM, wrote: > I've worked with a number of CNC router users on a bunch of jobs. I had > to change my beliefs along the way, based on experience. > > Tabs are often a huge liability. They are a lot of work to cut, leave a > finish problem where they were cut off, and sometimes tear out the work > when you move the sheet off the router. Wood is often warped and the tabs > may not render at all anyhow. With some bits and materials, you just don't > need tabs, the cut piece stays in place. > > Many skilled users don't do them. Popped pieces can sometimes happen, but > they can happen WITH tabs too if the sheet lifts and breaks them. So > there's no "tabs are the only proper way" rule to it. There will always be > a need to pause the machine, fix something which involves a move, and > resume. > > I'll work on this "moveoff" component then. > > Danny > > andy pugh wrote: > > On 27 June 2016 at 15:28, Chris Kelley wrote: > > I would say that the "proper answer" is to teach the users to properly > use > > holding-tabs, hold-downs, etc > > That reminds me, I used holding tabs a lot in CamBam, but haven't even > found them in Fusion360 or Inventor HSM. I wonder if they are there to > be found? > > However, to say that it is possible to never need to stop a job > part-way through to fix something is, I think, going a bit far. As I > recall the moveoff component was written after a request from a > commercial roll-machining company who wanted to be able to change > chipped or worn tips mid-job. > > -- > atp > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and > lunatics." > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 > > > -- > Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San > Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries > present their vision of the future. This family event has something for > everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. > http://sdm.link/attshape > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > > > > > -- > Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San > Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries > present their vision of the future. This family event has something for > everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. > http://sdm.link/attshape > ___ > Emc-users mailing list > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users > -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] The Monarch Lathe - a visit
Hello all. Thank you very much for all your advice. It has been passed on to my friend. After doing a bunch of cleaning work on the lathe, he asked me for some help, to make sure he was proceeding in the right direction, and test the lathe. The machine is a Monarch model 12 C. An electrician had been brought in to enable the motor - missing capacitors have been replaced. The history of the machine was it was brought into Canada in 1947. It was the personal machine of the Shop Master, after the shop had been converted to CNC, and then he took the lathe when he retired. (!) After that history, I got out the Height gauge, put the indicator on it, and checked the ways for tolerance. Results lengthwise are mainly +/- .1 to .2 thou, with one spot of +/- .7 thou. Crosswise, between the ways was much the same. I could not detect any individual warping of the ways. This +/- .1 to .2 thou is not a problem, because the work will be +/- one thou, maximum. The legs of the lathe are bolted to a U channel. Lots of length exists to tie the channel down to the concrete pad, and the machine may be moved later. IF my friend finds their straps are not enough to keep the machine stable, they can add more and stronger straps. I was concerned with the compound rest, to enable thread cutting. Buddy was thinking along the same lines, and had the gib of the compound rest loose. Pushed a cloth through a gib space three times to remove fines, applied grease, and put the gib back. Clued in the "gib" was part of the compound rest's tension / holding mechanism, and checked with my friend what force he wanted on the compound rest handle. The lead screw and pan were filthy, with chips dramatically larger than the fines found alongside the compound rest "gib", so that proves that the lathe had not been used by the original Shop Master for a while. Yes, I have told my friend the lead screw is critical. Did not try either feed. Sorry. Too many things to do in a day. Since the Monarch 12 C is not a model Monarch has continued to manufacture, progress to making the lathe perfect will be slower. Once again, I wish to thank everyone who gave advice. James Isaac. -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] The "joints-axes" project has been merged into master - REQUIRES updates to configs!
Hi all, The joints-axes branch has now been merged into master! Joints/axes was a project to separate "joints" from "axes" in order to better support machines where a single motor does not directly drive motion along an axis, such as gantry machines, robot arms, hexapods, and similar. Anyone running the development branch of LinuxCNC will need to update your configs. Details on the changes needed are in the documentation here: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/getting-started/updating-linuxcnc.html Many thanks to all who worked on this project! In particular: Alex Joni, Andrew Kyrychenko, Andy Pugh, Chris Radek, Dewey Garrett, Jeff Epler, Kim Kirwan, Michael Geszkiewicz, Sam Sokolik, Sebastian Kuzminsky, and Stephen Wille Padnos - not to leave out others who may have helped but did not directly commit code. Moses -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] The "joints-axes" project has been merged into master - REQUIRES updates to configs!
On 27 June 2016 at 22:25, Moses McKnight wrote: > Anyone running the development branch of LinuxCNC will need to update your > configs. Details on the changes needed are in the documentation here: In most cases the configuration will be automatically upgraded when you try to open the config with the new version. You should certainly let the automated process have a try first before making any manual changes. Please report any conversion failures here so that the conversion script can be improved. -- atp "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916 -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Moving axis while paused
On 6/27/2016 9:56 AM, andy pugh wrote: > On 27 June 2016 at 15:28, Chris Kelley wrote: >> I would say that the "proper answer" is to teach the users to properly use >> holding-tabs, hold-downs, etc > That reminds me, I used holding tabs a lot in CamBam, but haven't even > found them in Fusion360 or Inventor HSM. I wonder if they are there to > be found? I can can confirm that Fusion360 does support tabs. Options exist for tab lengths, straight or "ramped" (triangular?) tabs, and either automatic (you specify the number of tabs) or manual placement. I found the tab feature to be quite easy to use, especially compared to some of the actual 3d modeling capabilities - but that problem is mine alone, and not specific to the software! I'm pretty sure I read that the CAM portion of F360 is standard HSMWorks, but I've not actually used that product. -- Attend Shape: An AT&T Tech Expo July 15-16. Meet us at AT&T Park in San Francisco, CA to explore cutting-edge tech and listen to tech luminaries present their vision of the future. This family event has something for everyone, including kids. Get more information and register today. http://sdm.link/attshape ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
