Re: [Emc-users] cutting thin alu panels problems, was 6040 problems

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 29 January 2019 21:34:57 Jon Elson wrote:

> On 01/29/2019 03:27 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > Greetings all;
> >
> > I just found the only way to cut this panel alu is to keep the tool
> > cold with a blast of air at around 125 psi blowing on the nut and
> > tool.
> >
> > Anything less and the heat telegraphing down the tool from the
> > motors front bearing, combined with the alox formation and friction
> > gets the tool so hot it burns the cutting oil away and welds the alu
> > into the flutes of a 4mm coated SC tool. Hell to pick it out.
>
> My idea of how to work aluminum is to take very light
> depth/width of cut, and keep the cutter moving along at a
> high feedrate, to prevent the heat from building up at one spot.
> I can't believe the spindle bearing is heating up the
> cutter.  If so, then the bearing has already burned out.
> But, aluminum gets hot from the cutting action (supposedly
> there is heat generated by the "burning" of the freshly
> exposed metal in air, too).

That is the majority of the heat generated when machining alu, and with a 
good misting system keeping the alu sealed away from the air by 
directing the mist into the cut, wetting it and sealing away the air as 
close to the cutters edge as the edges passes, this heat virtually 
vanishes.

> But, I think it is just the 
> heat of cutting accumulating in the workpiece.

Thats the show stopper, regardless of the src of the heat.

> I don't have a 25000 RPM spindle working here, so am
> unfamiliar with the actual numbers, but you want very small
> chip/tooth numbers, like .0001".  This will eat up your
> cutter faster, it can handle a LOT more chip/tooth, but the
> heat has to be dealt with.  You should be running at a
> feedrate of 20 IPM or so, or faster if you can.

25 to 40 ipm, and .008" to .010" incremental depth of cut since it goes 
clear thru the panel. Effective stepover can range up to the diameter of 
the tool and in this case usually is. That means it will dwell in the 
hole for up to 8+ revolutions around the hole leaving a stem in the 
middle. I think the next panel I cut, since I'm making 2 of these, may 
get cut at a greater depth of cut just to cut away the heat faster. I 
seem to be polishing the bottom of the half finished holes, and unless I 
keep it really cold, I'm plowing up a fence 30 thou high both on top, 
and out the bottom of the holes so I've cleaned them up with a $30 step 
drill.  And I have 4mm tools from two srcs now, so I might try the other 
for the next panel.

Thanks Jon.
>
> I use water-based coolant, as I do aluminum almost
> exclusively. That probably removes a lot more heat than an
> oil-based coolant (or brushed-on cutting oil, for sure!)
>
> Jon
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] Taming docx files. [Was: Re: 1.5 kw vfd in 6040 problems

[Erik Christiansen]

On 28.01.19 11:49, Gene Heskett wrote:
> The guy is still dragging his feet on english docs in a pdf format for 
> this thing though. Docx is damned sure a looser IMNSHO. Even the latest 
> 6.1.4 version of LibreOffice can't render it in a usable format.

Dunno how 'orrible a plain text rendition from docx2txt would be, but
then there's not much to be expected in that format.

$ apt-cache search docx
docx2txt - Convert Microsoft OOXML files to plain text
pandoc - general markup converter

I've heard of pandoc being used, but whether with shouts of joy, I'm
again uninformed. It also came up in a search for "pdf", so may very
well be able to do the conversion for you. Worth a try, perhaps.

Erik


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Nice manual lathe in WA (assume WA USA not WA AU)

[Jon Elson]

On 01/29/2019 08:46 PM, andy pugh wrote:

On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 at 16:16, Jon Elson  wrote:

  The spindle is
driven by triple matched belts, to keep gear vibration out
of the headstock.  The input pulley is coaxial to the
spindle, but does not run ON the spindle,


Another, new today on lathes.co.uk with a similar idea

http://www.lathes.co.uk/wermelinger/

(Yes, I do check that site for new lathes every day)

Wow, the Wermelinger is truly Art-Deco!  They don't make 
machines like THAT anymore.


Jon


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Nice manual lathe in WA (assume WA USA not WA AU)

[andy pugh]

On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 at 16:16, Jon Elson  wrote:
>  The spindle is

> driven by triple matched belts, to keep gear vibration out
> of the headstock.  The input pulley is coaxial to the
> spindle, but does not run ON the spindle,


Another, new today on lathes.co.uk with a similar idea

http://www.lathes.co.uk/wermelinger/

(Yes, I do check that site for new lathes every day)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] cutting thin alu panels problems, was 6040 problems

[Jon Elson]

On 01/29/2019 03:27 PM, Gene Heskett wrote:

Greetings all;

I just found the only way to cut this panel alu is to keep the tool cold
with a blast of air at around 125 psi blowing on the nut and tool.

Anything less and the heat telegraphing down the tool from the motors
front bearing, combined with the alox formation and friction gets the
tool so hot it burns the cutting oil away and welds the alu into the
flutes of a 4mm coated SC tool. Hell to pick it out.

My idea of how to work aluminum is to take very light 
depth/width of cut, and keep the cutter moving along at a 
high feedrate, to prevent the heat from building up at one spot.
I can't believe the spindle bearing is heating up the 
cutter.  If so, then the bearing has already burned out.  
But, aluminum gets hot from the cutting action (supposedly 
there is heat generated by the "burning" of the freshly 
exposed metal in air, too).  But, I think it is just the 
heat of cutting accumulating in the workpiece.


I don't have a 25000 RPM spindle working here, so am 
unfamiliar with the actual numbers, but you want very small 
chip/tooth numbers, like .0001".  This will eat up your 
cutter faster, it can handle a LOT more chip/tooth, but the 
heat has to be dealt with.  You should be running at a 
feedrate of 20 IPM or so, or faster if you can.


I use water-based coolant, as I do aluminum almost 
exclusively. That probably removes a lot more heat than an 
oil-based coolant (or brushed-on cutting oil, for sure!)


Jon


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] cutting thin alu panels problems, was 6040 problems

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 29 January 2019 20:16:50 Stuart Stevenson wrote:

> 4 flute or 2 flute?

3, with a very aggressive spiral. 4mm.

> On Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 7:14 PM andy pugh  > On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 at 01:01, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > > So I think the
> > >
> > > word for this is coolant. Slowly pouring right on the tool.
> >
> > Possibly,  you don't seem to see production shops workignwith
> > anything other than massive amounts of flood coolant.
> >
> > But there might be something to be gained from coated bits.
> >
> > And, possibly, a different spindle speed. Are you already as fast as
> > the spindle will run?
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics." — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] cutting thin alu panels problems, was 6040 problems

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 29 January 2019 20:11:47 andy pugh wrote:

> On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 at 01:01, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> > So I think the
> >
> > word for this is coolant. Slowly pouring right on the tool.
>
> Possibly,  you don't seem to see production shops workignwith anything
> other than massive amounts of flood coolant.
>
> But there might be something to be gained from coated bits.

They are coated.  Darker colored than plain carbide, but not gold 
colored,

> And, possibly, a different spindle speed. Are you already as fast as
> the spindle will run?

ATM, yes.  Its run at 24k or stopped.  I can reconfigure it to run at the 
pot setting, I think. I've also cranked up the feed rate based on a 
bigger chip carries away more heat. Can't testify if that helped or not.

Thanks Andy

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

[Emc-users] For PCW

[Gene Heskett]

Peter;

I got one of the panels cut, stuck a line cord gland and a line cord 
feeding a 5 volt and a 12 volt supply for field power, hooked it up. But 
I see no hints of the 7i76 in the dmesg or halmeter menu's.

So I poked at it with mesaflash, again w/o finding much. Asking 
for --serial, I get:
SSLBP VERSION 1.43
SSLBP CHANNELS 4
SSLBP baud rate 250 kilobaud.

I've put the 5i25_7i76_1px2d.bit file in the 5i25 in the G0704's Dell. 
And I do see a #1 pwmgen out of p2.

Shouldn't I be seeing more evidence of the 7i76? I've no clue how to 
address it in the .hal files.


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] cutting thin alu panels problems, was 6040 problems

[Stuart Stevenson]

4 flute or 2 flute?

On Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 7:14 PM andy pugh  On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 at 01:01, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > So I think the
>
> > word for this is coolant. Slowly pouring right on the tool.
> >
>
> Possibly,  you don't seem to see production shops workignwith anything
> other than massive amounts of flood coolant.
>
> But there might be something to be gained from coated bits.
>
> And, possibly, a different spindle speed. Are you already as fast as the
> spindle will run?
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
> for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] cutting thin alu panels problems, was 6040 problems

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 at 01:01, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> So I think the

> word for this is coolant. Slowly pouring right on the tool.
>

Possibly,  you don't seem to see production shops workignwith anything
other than massive amounts of flood coolant.

But there might be something to be gained from coated bits.

And, possibly, a different spindle speed. Are you already as fast as the
spindle will run?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] cutting thin alu panels problems, was 6040 problems

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 29 January 2019 18:50:59 Ed wrote:

> On 1/29/19 3:44 PM, andy pugh wrote:
> > On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 at 21:29, Gene Heskett  
wrote:
> >> Greetings all;
> >>
> >> I just found the only way to cut this panel alu is to keep the tool
> >> cold with a blast of air at around 125 psi blowing on the nut and
> >> tool.
> >
> > Sounds like a job for an MQL system (Minimal Quantity Lubrication,
> > air-blast and ahint of oil), as I don't think that machine is likely
> > to best-suited to flood coolant.

Which is why I said I'd put a coat of sealer on the bottom of the bed, 
then tilt it so it would drain well into a recovery chute.
> >
> > Here is a cheap attempt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNLuPgr7NdY
>
> I use a air line lubricator regulated down to 5 to 10 PSI blowing
> coolant mix through a 1/4"  Loc Line with a 1/8" nozzle. Works great
> without putting mist in the air, it just kinda splatters it on.
>
I made a home made thingy out of a brass block and some really teeny 
brass tubeing in a coaxial arrangement where the air exited around the 
oil feed tube.  Made a very fine mist and did a good job of keeping a 
1/4" end mill from plugging up, several years back that seemed to work 
well, but put 6 oz of safflower oil into the shop air in 3 hours run 
time while makeing a 6x6x2 pillow for a big bearing in the transmitters 
heat exchanger. The bearings were fafner, with the eccentric collars 
that had worked loose too many times in 50 years of running and wore the 
shaft down, so I had to move the bearing out to fresh shaft by about 2" 
to make even new bearings run true. Too high an air pressure at about 20 
psi from an air brush regulator. Didn't do my lungs or my glasses any 
favors.  I get the impression that with this gummy alu, temps, as in 
cold, are far more important than lube.  Some LN2 perhaps?

When the bit plugged up and ripped that panel off its anchoring screws, 
the whole panel was well above cutting oil vaporization temps and it was 
about 5 minutes blowing on it with an air hose before I could handle it. 
And it was running ankle deep in cutting oil at the time. So I think the 
word for this is coolant. Slowly pouring right on the tool. We'll figure 
something out since I have to do two of these interfaces.

Thanks Ed.
>
> Ed.
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] cutting thin alu panels problems, was 6040 problems

[Ed]

On 1/29/19 3:44 PM, andy pugh wrote:

On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 at 21:29, Gene Heskett  wrote:


Greetings all;

I just found the only way to cut this panel alu is to keep the tool cold
with a blast of air at around 125 psi blowing on the nut and tool.


Sounds like a job for an MQL system (Minimal Quantity Lubrication,
air-blast and ahint of oil), as I don't think that machine is likely to
best-suited to flood coolant.

Here is a cheap attempt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNLuPgr7NdY

I use a air line lubricator regulated down to 5 to 10 PSI blowing 
coolant mix through a 1/4"  Loc Line with a 1/8" nozzle. Works great 
without putting mist in the air, it just kinda splatters it on.



Ed.




___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] cutting thin alu panels problems, was 6040 problems

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 at 21:29, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Greetings all;
>
> I just found the only way to cut this panel alu is to keep the tool cold
> with a blast of air at around 125 psi blowing on the nut and tool.


Sounds like a job for an MQL system (Minimal Quantity Lubrication,
air-blast and ahint of oil), as I don't think that machine is likely to
best-suited to flood coolant.

Here is a cheap attempt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNLuPgr7NdY

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] cutting thin alu panels problems, was 6040 problems

[Gene Heskett]

Greetings all;

I just found the only way to cut this panel alu is to keep the tool cold 
with a blast of air at around 125 psi blowing on the nut and tool.

Anything less and the heat telegraphing down the tool from the motors 
front bearing, combined with the alox formation and friction gets the 
tool so hot it burns the cutting oil away and welds the alu into the 
flutes of a 4mm coated SC tool. Hell to pick it out.

So my thinking is to give the bottom of the bed a coat of sealer, jack up 
the rear of the bed about an inch so liquid coolant running off the work 
will drain down the t slots to the front of the machine and be caught in 
a miniature rain gutter, where it will be delivered to a holding tank 
identical to the motor coolant tank, with a similar aquarium pump in the 
bottom but with the return being filtered by dumping the return onto a 
cloth filter to keep the bigger stuff out of the tank. I've got almost 
everything but the last 8" of bendable delivery stuff with a nozzle on 
the end of it.  Amazon has those cheap enough.  Old, used oxygen hose 
from the missuses oxy generator could supply adequate hoseing I think 
except for the bigger bore drain. It could be threaded thru the cable 
chain to the motor, keeping it out of the way. 3 or 4 gallons of 
distilled ought to be enough. I've 3 gallons of distilled in the motor 
coolant system, and seems to hold at 35C just from the pumps heat.

Does it sound serviceable to you folks? Better ideas maybe?

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] VFS-11 modbus driver

[andy pugh]

On Tue, 29 Jan 2019 at 01:39, Thaddeus Waldner  wrote:

As I understand it, I need a RS485 port. Is it reasonably possible to add a
> second serial port on some of the unused I/O pins to the MESA card? Would I
> be better served buying a usb-RS485 adapter?


The vfs11 driver runs in user-space so the fact that you can't have
realtime control through USB is not such a problem. This means that a cheap
USB-RS485 dongle probably is as good a way to do it as any.
 This is how I connected my VFD.
https://forum.linuxcnc.org/forum/18-computer/30675-on-motherboard-modbus-rs485-connection

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is designed
for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1916

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users