Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

[Bari]

On 7/16/20 12:18 AM, Gene Heskett wrote:



But all that lumber padding under the head, supporting it because the
drive isn't, its not possible to see the spindle. IMO that needs to be
subject to an on-site inspection.  That also could hide some pretty bad
table divots. To warrant that low an asking, something has to be damaged
and deemed non-repairable.


There is another Mori on that site for even less

https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv40-CNC-VMC/0120092/

The pandemic has killed lots of businesses. 1 out of 4 businesses near 
me are closing for good. I expect to see deals for the next year at 
least on just about everything.





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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 15 July 2020 16:15:23 Peter C. Wallace wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Jul 2020, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> > Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 20:08:52 +
> > From: Todd Zuercher 
> > Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> > 
> > To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> >  Subject: [Emc-users] Retrofit
> > Candidate?
> >
> > Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc
> > retrofit?
> > https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv45
> >40-CNC-VMC/0120091/ Anyone familiar with these, are there a good
> > reasons not to buy it? (Or good reasons to buy it?) Is this a good
> > price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the late 1980s.
> >
> > Todd Zuercher
> > P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> > 630 Henry Street
> > Dalton, Ohio 44618
> > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> Wow! that looks really clean for a machine of that age...
> Not even any visible table divots
>
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
>
But all that lumber padding under the head, supporting it because the 
drive isn't, its not possible to see the spindle. IMO that needs to be 
subject to an on-site inspection.  That also could hide some pretty bad 
table divots. To warrant that low an asking, something has to be damaged 
and deemed non-repairable.
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

[andrew beck]

John do you have any details on the new stumble drives?

Regards

Andrew

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 1:54 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:

> For that price, rip out the guts and replace the works with COTS units.
> You end up with single phase.  Possibly only a 3HP spindle but do you need
> a bigger one?  The Chinese AC Servos appear to be pretty good.  Even the
> squeal problem from my spindle 1.8kW motor was a parameter error.  Quickly
> solved.
>
> Or wait a bit and the new STMBLs will be out.  Odds are they might
> retrofit those motors nicely.
>
> John
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: andrew beck [mailto:andrewbeck0...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: July-15-20 6:44 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?
> >
> > Looks pretty good to me.  As Jon said fanuc servos are a pain.  But so is
> > heidenhain lol.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 8:12 AM Todd Zuercher 
> wrote:
> >
> > > Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
> > >
> > >
> https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540-CNC-VMC/0120091/
> > > Anyone familiar with these, are there a good reasons not to buy it? (Or
> > > good reasons to buy it?)
> > > Is this a good price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the
> late
> > > 1980s.
> > >
> > > Todd Zuercher
> > > P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> > > 630 Henry Street
> > > Dalton, Ohio 44618
> > > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
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> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
> > ___
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>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

[Thaddeus Waldner]

Some of those large, high-end Japanese names have temperature sensors installed 
throughout the frame, which they use to compensate for thermal expansion. 

Curious if anyone has ever done that with LinuxCNC?

Steel thermal expansion coefficient is around 6 parts per million per degree 
Fahrenheit, which would come to roughly 3 tho on a 2-foot part with a 20°F 
temperature swing. The frame on a production machine gets quite warm, as all 
those KWs have to go somewhere...

> On Jul 15, 2020, at 9:52 PM, Jon Elson  wrote:
> 
> On 07/15/2020 09:03 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:
>> Looks like a Yasnac control. I zoomed in on the MPG. It is labeled Yasnac.
>> 
>> 
> Ahh, more complicated than I thought.  Some models had Fanuc, but I did not 
> recognize that control panel.
> I don't know Yasnac, but they may be less proprietary than Fanuc, which are 
> pretty legendary in that regard.  It might be easier to re-use the servo amps 
> and spindle drive, then.
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] New Spindle working.

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users [mailto:emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net]
> Sent: July-15-20 7:39 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Cc: Gregg Eshelman
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] New Spindle working.
> 
> What about using the target OS's standard interface APIs like file dialog 
> boxes? I've seen so many programs that have their own
> custom dialog boxes that do the same things as the ones provided by the OS, 
> which exist so software authors don't have to create
> them. Supposed to make software easier to write and smaller.

Exactly my point.  Delphi and Lazarus have the CUA interface for all standard 
forms and dialogs and menus.   You could still put 'File' on the RHS but please 
get rid of those stupid Behive Android buttons.  But then I'm writing and 
reading in English (or Dutch) so text oriented forms are fine.  If you use a 
different language that perhaps are more symbol oriented then ICONs and Behives 
are perhaps the better user interface.

Limit your menu choices to 7 or less items (part of human factors engineering 
now lost on the current set of millienials that write software).  

> But there are so many that seem to be conceptually stuck in the times of 
> MS-DOS when anything past the very basic file functions,
> putting text on screen, and accessing serial and parallel ports had to be 
> provided by each program individually. Every program that
> printed anything fancier than raw ASCII text had to include its own printer 
> support. At least nobody has (yet) gone backwards that
> much with Windows software.

Back in the day, to use that expression I did have to do command line stuff on 
both MS-DOS, Micropolis DOS, CP/M in all the variants from -80, -86, -68K and 
even MP/M-86.  Along with OS-9/68K.  And even Unix on a PDP-10.  That's all 
from the 70's and very early 80's;  like 40 years ago or more.  And I do write 
something similar to command line processing for PIC micro-controllers with 4K 
RAM and 32K Flash memory.   Even if you did attach a graphical screen the 
method of rendering information require external storage to hold screen images.

But command lines on systems that have 1GB of RAM and a 16GB SD card and have a 
graphical interface are just plain silly.  IMHO.  And there are many who will 
disagree.

And as for serial port routines I quite agree.  I've been working with the 
component LazSerial which so far, with a few minor fixes lets me access the 
serial ports of both PCs COMx: and Linux /dev/tty1 or /dev/ttyUSB0.  It just 
works.  And LazSerial like CPort for Delphi has a standard dialog that lets a 
user enter baudrate etc.

John Dammeyer



> 
> On Wednesday, July 15, 2020, 6:43:43 PM MDT, John Dammeyer 
>  wrote:
>  After 3 decades of working with Turbo Pascal and then Delphi, Tcl/Python to 
> me is such a step backwards it's painful to use.� And
> explains why Linux has such a preponderance of command line programs to do 
> everything.� When it's difficult and tedious to
> create graphical applications programmers go to what they know.� And if it's 
> python and command line then that�s what they do.
> 
> The trouble is not a lot of people in the Linux world, having been so 
> anti-windows for so long, were ever exposed to the ease of
> development and debugging with Delphi.� It's impossible to have an array 
> index out of bounds sneak into your code because you
> can ask the compiler to flag it.� Now granted Python has some nice features.
> 
> Now Lazarus is at the Delphi 7 point.� Embarcadero's Delphi and C++ with 
> their multi-platform targets allows a programmer to
> create the user interface for each target in the style for that target.� Then 
> set which target and compile and ship.� In playing
> around I've created apps that run on my android tablet and PC that have the 
> look and feel of each OS and run identical applications
> code.
> 
> A lot of fun actually.
> 
> John
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Re: [Emc-users] New Spindle working.

[John Dammeyer]

Since Lazarus is free and runs on PCs with Windows or Linux or on MACs or on 
Raspberry Pi, it's well worth the effort to learn how to write programs with it.
 
SimpleProgrammingLesson := ON;
 
You could write a command line oriented program or even supply text file with 
the parameters.  Or in Lazarus create a stock form with a menu bar and a save 
dialog component.  Place the TEdit boxes where you want and fill in the default 
text values.  I usually also change the name of the component from Edit1 to 
StartingXEdit.  Add TLabels and again using the Properties box on the side of 
the IDE enter in the captions. 
 
When I double click on the ManMeni1 I get a graphical design dialog that lets 
me set up each item I want and I can double click on that I'm taken directly to 
the code that is run when a user clicks on that menu entry.  For example 
there's a check box under options that selects metric or imperial.  The code 
converts all the fields with one of two functions I wrote called ToMetric or 
ToImperial.  So one click and all the TEdit fields are converted to metric or 
imperial including the IPM or mm/M TLAbels.
 
Same thing with the Save File.  Brings up the standard dialog so you can save 
the file (with default suffix) (.tap or .ngc) and when you click on SAVE in 
that dialog the main function that converts those parameters on the screen into 
G-Code runs.  That code could be in any language really.  It's just straight 
math and text processing and the time it takes to write that isn't really 
language dependent.
 

 
But when this program runs, on Windows it looks the same as it does on the 
MachineKit Beagle as well as LinuxCNC.  The Add Info button doesn't do anything 
but it could bring up an TMemo form where you could add pre-amble information 
unique to your machine.  
 
And so on.  If you don't like where the buttons are drag them.  Extra lines 
show up as the alignment with various objects occurs.  As a guide.
 
Beats drawing it out on graph paper and then creating each object in Python 
with the XY locations of each object.
 
Here's the code for switching between metric and imperial.  Knowing how I've 
identified each of the TEdit fields the code is almost self-documenting.  Add a 
few more fields that are dependent on metric/Imperial values and add the 
conversion in this function.
 
procedure TMakeBore_IJ_Form.MenuMetricUnitsClick(Sender: TObject);
begin
if not MenuMetricUnits.checked then begin
   StartingXEdit.Text := ToMetric(StartingXEdit.Text);
   StartingYEdit.Text := ToMetric(StartingYEdit.Text);
   BoreDiameterEdit.Text := ToMetric(BoreDiameterEdit.Text);
   DepthPerPassEdit.Text := ToMetric(DepthPerPassEdit.Text);
   BoreDepthEdit.Text := ToMetric(BoreDepthEdit.Text);
   FeedCutWidthEdit.Text := ToMetric(FeedCutWidthEdit.Text);
   FinishCutWidthEdit.Text := ToMetric(FinishCutWidthEdit.Text);
   FeedRateEdit.Text := ToMetric(FeedRateEdit.Text);
   FeedRateLabel.Caption := '(mm/M)';
   FinishFeedRateEdit.Text := ToMetric(FinishFeedRateEdit.Text);
   FinishFeedRateLabel.Caption := '(mm/M)';
   MenuMetricUnits.checked := TRUE;
end
else begin
StartingXEdit.Text := ToImperial(StartingXEdit.Text);
StartingYEdit.Text := ToImperial(StartingYEdit.Text);
BoreDiameterEdit.Text := ToImperial(BoreDiameterEdit.Text);
DepthPerPassEdit.Text := ToImperial(DepthPerPassEdit.Text);
BoreDepthEdit.Text := ToImperial(BoreDepthEdit.Text);
FeedCutWidthEdit.Text := ToImperial(FeedCutWidthEdit.Text);
FinishCutWidthEdit.Text := ToImperial(FinishCutWidthEdit.Text);
FeedRateEdit.Text := ToImperial(FeedRateEdit.Text);
FeedRateLabel.Caption := '(IPM)';
FinishFeedRateEdit.Text := ToImperial(FinishFeedRateEdit.Text);
FinishFeedRateLabel.Caption := '(IPM)';
MenuMetricUnits.checked := FALSE;
end;
end;
 
And there we have it.
SimpleProgrammingLesson := OFF;
 
John Dammeyer
 
> -Original Message-
> From: Jon Elson [mailto:el...@pico-systems.com]
> Sent: July-15-20 7:40 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] New Spindle working.
> 
> On 07/15/2020 07:40 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:
> > After 3 decades of working with Turbo Pascal and then Delphi, Tcl/Python to 
> > me is such a step backwards it's painful to use.
> Yes, I'm with you.  I wrote some big programs in Pascal a
> LONG time ago.  The biggest one was a Gerber file to raster
> converter program.  Recently, I took that old source and
> recompiled it under FPC (Free Pascal Compiler) and got it
> running in very short order.
> 
> My experience with Pascal was that once I got the program to
> compile without errors (minor syntax and variable name
> errors) they generally worked first time, or at least came
> very close.
> 
> About 15 years ago I wrote several large GUIs to control
> data acquisition systems, using Tcl/Tk for the screen
> interface and C for the back end 

Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

[Jon Elson]

On 07/15/2020 09:03 PM, Stuart Stevenson wrote:

Looks like a Yasnac control. I zoomed in on the MPG. It is labeled Yasnac.


Ahh, more complicated than I thought.  Some models had 
Fanuc, but I did not recognize that control panel.
I don't know Yasnac, but they may be less proprietary than 
Fanuc, which are pretty legendary in that regard.  It might 
be easier to re-use the servo amps and spindle drive, then.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

[Jon Elson]

On 07/15/2020 08:51 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

For that price, rip out the guts and replace the works with COTS units.  You 
end up with single phase.  Possibly only a 3HP spindle but do you need a bigger 
one?  The Chinese AC Servos appear to be pretty good.  Even the squeal problem 
from my spindle 1.8kW motor was a parameter error.  Quickly solved.


That's a SERIOUSLY large machine!  Various units may have 
different spindle motors, but at least one was 10 Hp.  
Probably several HP axis motors.  Note the nameplate shows a 
29 KVA load!


Jon




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Re: [Emc-users] New Spindle working.

[Jon Elson]

On 07/15/2020 07:40 PM, John Dammeyer wrote:

After 3 decades of working with Turbo Pascal and then Delphi, Tcl/Python to me 
is such a step backwards it's painful to use.
Yes, I'm with you.  I wrote some big programs in Pascal a 
LONG time ago.  The biggest one was a Gerber file to raster 
converter program.  Recently, I took that old source and 
recompiled it under FPC (Free Pascal Compiler) and got it 
running in very short order.


My experience with Pascal was that once I got the program to 
compile without errors (minor syntax and variable name 
errors) they generally worked first time, or at least came 
very close.


About 15 years ago I wrote several large GUIs to control 
data acquisition systems, using Tcl/Tk for the screen 
interface and C for the back end hardware control and 
database of settings.  The C part was very complex but 
pretty straightforward.  The Tcl part was close to a 
nightmare, due to all the quirks in Tcl.


I have recently created a few smaller GUIs with an initial 
structure set up with Glade, interfaced to a back end in C.  
Once the initial xml is set up with Glade, I then go in and 
hand-edit all the special interface options, as Glade 
doesn't seem able to go in and modify an xml file once it is 
built.  But, the xml is a much saner way to just build a GUI 
than with Tcl.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] New Spindle working.

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

What about using the target OS's standard interface APIs like file dialog 
boxes? I've seen so many programs that have their own custom dialog boxes that 
do the same things as the ones provided by the OS, which exist so software 
authors don't have to create them. Supposed to make software easier to write 
and smaller. 
But there are so many that seem to be conceptually stuck in the times of MS-DOS 
when anything past the very basic file functions, putting text on screen, and 
accessing serial and parallel ports had to be provided by each program 
individually. Every program that printed anything fancier than raw ASCII text 
had to include its own printer support. At least nobody has (yet) gone 
backwards that much with Windows software.

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020, 6:43:43 PM MDT, John Dammeyer 
 wrote:  
 After 3 decades of working with Turbo Pascal and then Delphi, Tcl/Python to me 
is such a step backwards it's painful to use.  And explains why Linux has such 
a preponderance of command line programs to do everything.  When it's difficult 
and tedious to create graphical applications programmers go to what they know.  
And if it's python and command line then that’s what they do.

The trouble is not a lot of people in the Linux world, having been so 
anti-windows for so long, were ever exposed to the ease of development and 
debugging with Delphi.  It's impossible to have an array index out of bounds 
sneak into your code because you can ask the compiler to flag it.  Now granted 
Python has some nice features. 

Now Lazarus is at the Delphi 7 point.  Embarcadero's Delphi and C++ with their 
multi-platform targets allows a programmer to create the user interface for 
each target in the style for that target.  Then set which target and compile 
and ship.  In playing around I've created apps that run on my android tablet 
and PC that have the look and feel of each OS and run identical applications 
code.

A lot of fun actually.

John  
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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

[Stuart Stevenson]

A good photographer can use lighting to wash out dirt and stains. It may
not look as clean when you are standing beside it.

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 9:03 PM Stuart Stevenson  wrote:

> Looks like a Yasnac control. I zoomed in on the MPG. It is labeled Yasnac.
>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 8:54 PM John Dammeyer 
> wrote:
>
>> For that price, rip out the guts and replace the works with COTS units.
>> You end up with single phase.  Possibly only a 3HP spindle but do you need
>> a bigger one?  The Chinese AC Servos appear to be pretty good.  Even the
>> squeal problem from my spindle 1.8kW motor was a parameter error.  Quickly
>> solved.
>>
>> Or wait a bit and the new STMBLs will be out.  Odds are they might
>> retrofit those motors nicely.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: andrew beck [mailto:andrewbeck0...@gmail.com]
>> > Sent: July-15-20 6:44 PM
>> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
>> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?
>> >
>> > Looks pretty good to me.  As Jon said fanuc servos are a pain.  But so
>> is
>> > heidenhain lol.
>> >
>> > Regards
>> >
>> > Andrew
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 8:12 AM Todd Zuercher 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
>> > >
>> > >
>> https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540-CNC-VMC/0120091/
>> > > Anyone familiar with these, are there a good reasons not to buy it?
>> (Or
>> > > good reasons to buy it?)
>> > > Is this a good price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the
>> late
>> > > 1980s.
>> > >
>> > > Todd Zuercher
>> > > P. Graham Dunn Inc.
>> > > 630 Henry Street
>> > > Dalton, Ohio 44618
>> > > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ___
>> > > Emc-users mailing list
>> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>> > >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Emc-users mailing list
>> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>

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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

[Stuart Stevenson]

Looks like a Yasnac control. I zoomed in on the MPG. It is labeled Yasnac.

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020, 8:54 PM John Dammeyer  wrote:

> For that price, rip out the guts and replace the works with COTS units.
> You end up with single phase.  Possibly only a 3HP spindle but do you need
> a bigger one?  The Chinese AC Servos appear to be pretty good.  Even the
> squeal problem from my spindle 1.8kW motor was a parameter error.  Quickly
> solved.
>
> Or wait a bit and the new STMBLs will be out.  Odds are they might
> retrofit those motors nicely.
>
> John
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: andrew beck [mailto:andrewbeck0...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: July-15-20 6:44 PM
> > To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> > Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?
> >
> > Looks pretty good to me.  As Jon said fanuc servos are a pain.  But so is
> > heidenhain lol.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 8:12 AM Todd Zuercher 
> wrote:
> >
> > > Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
> > >
> > >
> https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540-CNC-VMC/0120091/
> > > Anyone familiar with these, are there a good reasons not to buy it? (Or
> > > good reasons to buy it?)
> > > Is this a good price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the
> late
> > > 1980s.
> > >
> > > Todd Zuercher
> > > P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> > > 630 Henry Street
> > > Dalton, Ohio 44618
> > > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
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> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> > >
> >
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>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

[John Dammeyer]

For that price, rip out the guts and replace the works with COTS units.  You 
end up with single phase.  Possibly only a 3HP spindle but do you need a bigger 
one?  The Chinese AC Servos appear to be pretty good.  Even the squeal problem 
from my spindle 1.8kW motor was a parameter error.  Quickly solved.

Or wait a bit and the new STMBLs will be out.  Odds are they might retrofit 
those motors nicely.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: andrew beck [mailto:andrewbeck0...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July-15-20 6:44 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?
> 
> Looks pretty good to me.  As Jon said fanuc servos are a pain.  But so is
> heidenhain lol.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Andrew
> 
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 8:12 AM Todd Zuercher  wrote:
> 
> > Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
> >
> > https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540-CNC-VMC/0120091/
> > Anyone familiar with these, are there a good reasons not to buy it? (Or
> > good reasons to buy it?)
> > Is this a good price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the late
> > 1980s.
> >
> > Todd Zuercher
> > P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> > 630 Henry Street
> > Dalton, Ohio 44618
> > Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

[andrew beck]

Looks pretty good to me.  As Jon said fanuc servos are a pain.  But so is
heidenhain lol.

Regards

Andrew

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 8:12 AM Todd Zuercher  wrote:

> Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
>
> https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540-CNC-VMC/0120091/
> Anyone familiar with these, are there a good reasons not to buy it? (Or
> good reasons to buy it?)
> Is this a good price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the late
> 1980s.
>
> Todd Zuercher
> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> 630 Henry Street
> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
>
>
> ___
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> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

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Re: [Emc-users] New Spindle working.

[John Dammeyer]

The stuff that uses  the limit2 was cut and pasted from a web page.  I never 
expected it to work first time.

In each case it's something like this:
# hijack the spindle speed out and send it to spindle ramp in
net spindle-cmd <= motion.spindle-speed-out => spindle-ramp.in

The error message is that motion.spinde-speed-out is already assigned.

And sure enough later in the file, the part that works there's the usage of 
motion.spinde-speed-out
net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm<=  motion.spindle-speed-out

So if we work it backwards the statement tells the MESA to create a PWM value 
for speed.  The PWM_SCALE is 50.  

# PWM gen signals/setup

# PWM signal pin config
setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.output-type  1
setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.scale  [SPINDLE_9]PWM_SCALE
setp   hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.pwm_frequency 1000

# PWM dir pin config 
setp   hm2_7i92.0.gpio.005.is_output true

net spindle-enable  =>  hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.enable
net spindle-vel-cmd-rps =>  hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.value
net spindle-ccw  =>  hm2_7i92.0.gpio.005.out




> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July-15-20 5:26 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] New Spindle working.
> 
> On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 at 01:13, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> > I've commented out the 4 lines that cause it not to start.
> 
> The actual error message when LinuxCNC fails to start would help.
> But, perhaps you have a separate spindle.hal file that conflicts with
> the nets you made?
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] New Spindle working.

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 at 01:43, John Dammeyer  wrote:
>
> Now granted Python has some nice features.

So perhaps look at QT / Python?
https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/tree/master/share/qtvcp/screens/qtaxis
(I have to plead ignorance of what one uses to edit a QT .ui file)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] New Spindle working.

[John Dammeyer]

After 3 decades of working with Turbo Pascal and then Delphi, Tcl/Python to me 
is such a step backwards it's painful to use.   And explains why Linux has such 
a preponderance of command line programs to do everything.  When it's difficult 
and tedious to create graphical applications programmers go to what they know.  
And if it's python and command line then that’s what they do.

The trouble is not a lot of people in the Linux world, having been so 
anti-windows for so long, were ever exposed to the ease of development and 
debugging with Delphi.   It's impossible to have an array index out of bounds 
sneak into your code because you can ask the compiler to flag it.  Now granted 
Python has some nice features. 

Now Lazarus is at the Delphi 7 point.  Embarcadero's Delphi and C++ with their 
multi-platform targets allows a programmer to create the user interface for 
each target in the style for that target.   Then set which target and compile 
and ship.  In playing around I've created apps that run on my android tablet 
and PC that have the look and feel of each OS and run identical applications 
code.

A lot of fun actually.

John



> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July-15-20 4:42 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] New Spindle working.
> 
> On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 at 00:36, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> > At some point in time I'll probably rewrite the entire AXIS interface in 
> > Free Pascal.  But not right now...
> 
> MoccaGUI, on which Gmoccapy is based, was written in FreePascal. I
> suspect that one reason it wasn't made mainline was a reluctance to
> add yet another programming language and dependency to LinuxCNC.
> 
> But, why? We already have a Tcl/Python Axis and a QT-based clone. The
> same UI written in a different programming language seems to add no
> value, in my opinion.
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [Emc-users] New Spindle working.

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 at 01:13, John Dammeyer  wrote:

> I've commented out the 4 lines that cause it not to start.

The actual error message when LinuxCNC fails to start would help.
But, perhaps you have a separate spindle.hal file that conflicts with
the nets you made?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

[Todd Zuercher]

But the Mori is only an hour drive away (vs 2 states away.)

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street 
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031

-Original Message-
From: Bari  
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 4:29 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

[EXTERNAL EMAIL] Be sure links are safe.

Looks really nice. If the spindle is good then it's a good price.

There is a pair of Matsuura 500's on ebay for $1200ea or best that are running.

On 7/15/20 3:08 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:
> Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
> https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540
> -CNC-VMC/0120091/ Anyone familiar with these, are there a good 
> reasons not to buy it? (Or good reasons to buy it?) Is this a good 
> price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the late 1980s.


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Re: [Emc-users] New Spindle working.

[John Dammeyer]

OK

Couldn't resist...
#
# load real time a limit2 and a near with names so it is easier to follow
loadrt limit2 names=spindle-ramp
loadrt near names=spindle-at-speed

# add the functions to a thread
addf spindle-ramp servo-thread
addf spindle-at-speed servo-thread

# set the parameter for max rate-of-change
# (max spindle accel/decel in units per second)
setp spindle-ramp.maxv 60

# hijack the spindle speed out and send it to spindle ramp in
#net spindle-cmd <= motion.spindle-speed-out => spindle-ramp.in

# the output of spindle ramp is sent to the scale in
#net spindle-ramped <= spindle-ramp.out => scale.0.in

# to know when to start the motion we send the near component
# (named spindle-at-speed) to the spindle commanded speed from
# the signal spindle-cmd and the actual spindle speed
# provided your spindle can accelerate at the maxv setting.
net spindle-cmd => spindle-at-speed.in1
net spindle-ramped => spindle-at-speed.in2

# the output from spindle-at-speed is sent to motion.spindle-at-speed
# and when this is true motion will start
#net spindle-ready <= spindle-at-speed.out => motion.spindle-at-speed
#

I've commented out the 4 lines that cause it not to start.  

Not sure where the scale.0.in is from.  I don't see it declared anywhere.  Is 
that the display speed indicator?

For the "motion." Parameters they are already applied later.  So that needs to 
be changed.

Here's the PWM stuff as it is currently configured.
#
# PWM dir pin config 
setp   hm2_7i92.0.gpio.005.is_output true

net spindle-enable  =>  hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.enable
net spindle-vel-cmd-rps =>  hm2_7i92.0.pwmgen.00.value
net spindle-ccw  =>  hm2_7i92.0.gpio.005.out

# ---setup spindle control signals---

net spindle-vel-cmd-rps<=  motion.spindle-speed-out-rps
net spindle-vel-cmd-rps-abs<=  motion.spindle-speed-out-rps-abs
net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm<=  motion.spindle-speed-out
net spindle-vel-cmd-rpm-abs<=  motion.spindle-speed-out-abs
net spindle-enable <=  motion.spindle-on
net spindle-cw <=  motion.spindle-forward
net spindle-ccw<=  motion.spindle-reverse
net spindle-brake  <=  motion.spindle-brake
net spindle-revs   =>  motion.spindle-revs
net spindle-at-speed   =>  motion.spindle-at-speed
net spindle-vel-fb-rps =>  motion.spindle-speed-in
net spindle-index-enable  <=>  motion.spindle-index-enable

# ---Setup spindle at speed signals---

sets spindle-at-speed true
#
Not sure what I have to replace...  The MESA uses spindle-vel-cmd-rps while the 
ramping uses spindle-vel-cmd-rpm
And removing the net spindle-at-speed also doesn't work since then it's no 
longer declared.

John



> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July-15-20 4:13 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] New Spindle working.
> 
> On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 at 00:05, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> >
> > Unless I add stuff to the HAL file apparently there is no accel/deccel 
> > values that are applied to the PWM output to the spindle.
> My scope tells me it goes from 10V to 0V in about 50mS.
> 
> I remember talking about this on IRC, but can't remember who with.
> It would be possible to ramp the spindle speed internally to LinuxCNC,
> but it would break nearly all the spindle-at-speed setups out there.
> (as the spindle would be permanently at commanded speed, but not at
> the final speed).
> 
> One answer would be to add a spindle-speed-limited pin. I will bear
> this in mind if and when I get round to the plan of adding homing for
> spindles too.
> 
> > and some other stuff to hijack the values but so far that hasn't worked and 
> > LinuxCNC won't start.
> 
> What's the error message? All that you posted looked OK, unless I am
> scanning over the same error as you are.
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users



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Re: [Emc-users] New Spindle working.

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 at 00:36, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> At some point in time I'll probably rewrite the entire AXIS interface in Free 
> Pascal.  But not right now...

MoccaGUI, on which Gmoccapy is based, was written in FreePascal. I
suspect that one reason it wasn't made mainline was a reluctance to
add yet another programming language and dependency to LinuxCNC.

But, why? We already have a Tcl/Python Axis and a QT-based clone. The
same UI written in a different programming language seems to add no
value, in my opinion.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] New Spindle working.

[John Dammeyer]

> > and some other stuff to hijack the values but so far that hasn't worked and 
> > LinuxCNC won't start.
> 
> What's the error message? All that you posted looked OK, unless I am
> scanning over the same error as you are.

I didn't post all of it.  The part I posted should work fine.   It's the 
hijacking that is the problem and it could just be that it's out of position in 
the HAL file.

Right now I'm up to my neck in trying to get the same revision of Lazarus and 
Free Pascal running on WIN-XP, WIN-7, WIN-10,  Pi3 and BeagleBone.  Even then 
there are differences between how the Pi3 handles drop down lists compared to 
the Windows versions.  Subtle but different.

Here’s a screen shot of the Pi program dumping CAN bus messages acquired via a 
Lawicel CANUSB and the socketCAN candump program displaying the same messages 
via a CAN Hat that uses an MCP2515.

I've also run Lazarus on the LinuxCNC machine for some of the dialog box to 
G-Code apps I've been developing.  At some point in time I'll probably rewrite 
the entire AXIS interface in Free Pascal.  But not right now...

John

> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] New Spindle working.

[andy pugh]

On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 at 00:05, John Dammeyer  wrote:
>
> Unless I add stuff to the HAL file apparently there is no accel/deccel values 
> that are applied to the PWM output to the spindle.  My scope tells me it goes 
> from 10V to 0V in about 50mS.

I remember talking about this on IRC, but can't remember who with.
It would be possible to ramp the spindle speed internally to LinuxCNC,
but it would break nearly all the spindle-at-speed setups out there.
(as the spindle would be permanently at commanded speed, but not at
the final speed).

One answer would be to add a spindle-speed-limited pin. I will bear
this in mind if and when I get round to the plan of adding homing for
spindles too.

> and some other stuff to hijack the values but so far that hasn't worked and 
> LinuxCNC won't start.

What's the error message? All that you posted looked OK, unless I am
scanning over the same error as you are.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] New Spindle working.

[John Dammeyer]

Unless I add stuff to the HAL file apparently there is no accel/deccel values 
that are applied to the PWM output to the spindle.  My scope tells me it goes 
from 10V to 0V in about 50mS.  There is stuff I can add to the HAL:

# load real time a limit2 and a near with names so it is easier to follow
loadrt limit2 names=spindle-ramp
loadrt near names=spindle-at-speed

# add the functions to a thread
addf spindle-ramp servo-thread
addf spindle-at-speed servo-thread

# set the parameter for max rate-of-change
# (max spindle accel/decel in units per second)
setp spindle-ramp.maxv 60

and some other stuff to hijack the values but so far that hasn't worked and 
LinuxCNC won't start.

I'm probably better off spending my time on the second BoB and wiring things 
neatly.  Still need to put covers and fan on cabinet.  Clean up wires with some 
more harness stuff.  And add the relay module and wiring to enable the coolant 
and mist pumps.

So much to do.  

Or maybe just put a big honking cap across the 0V-10V output.

John


> -Original Message-
> From: Groups [mailto:gro...@homanndesigns.com]
> Sent: July-15-20 2:58 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] New Spindle working.
> 
> It might be worth adding a slower de-acceleration value for the spindle as a 
> heavier tool may trip the servo.
> Cheers
> Peter
> 
> Peter Homann - (from my mobile)
> http://www.homanndesigns.com
> 
> > On 16 Jul 2020, at 7:48 am, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> >
> > ?Progress.  Bergerda AC Servo driving the Spindle with a V belt still but 
> > at least driving it.  MESA 7i92H PWM,  small module from
> China for 0V-10V.   S1000, F5 and M3 and M5 commands to start and stop.
> >
> > https://youtu.be/VvXMoC917O0
> >
> > Next step somehow incorporate an encoder onto the spindle to close the loop 
> > and the secondary break out board so I can use
> step/dir instead.
> >
> > Then cast some new pulley blanks and change to toothed belt.  But for now 
> > it's so much quieter than the 2HP single phase
> motor.
> >
> > John Dammeyer
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] New Spindle working.

[Groups]

It might be worth adding a slower de-acceleration value for the spindle as a 
heavier tool may trip the servo. 
Cheers 
Peter 

Peter Homann - (from my mobile)
http://www.homanndesigns.com

> On 16 Jul 2020, at 7:48 am, John Dammeyer  wrote:
> 
> Progress.  Bergerda AC Servo driving the Spindle with a V belt still but at 
> least driving it.  MESA 7i92H PWM,  small module from China for 0V-10V.   
> S1000, F5 and M3 and M5 commands to start and stop.
> 
> https://youtu.be/VvXMoC917O0
> 
> Next step somehow incorporate an encoder onto the spindle to close the loop 
> and the secondary break out board so I can use step/dir instead.
> 
> Then cast some new pulley blanks and change to toothed belt.  But for now 
> it's so much quieter than the 2HP single phase motor.
> 
> John Dammeyer
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: andy pugh [mailto:bodge...@gmail.com]
> Sent: July-15-20 3:01 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?
> 
> On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 at 21:11, Todd Zuercher  wrote:
> 
> > https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540-CNC-VMC/0120091/
> 
> How weird:
> "Access from your Country was disabled by the administrator."

Andy you would just start drooling and want to add yet another machine into 
your shop.  Probably best you can't see it.
John
> 
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> � George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

[andy pugh]

On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 at 21:11, Todd Zuercher  wrote:

> https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540-CNC-VMC/0120091/

How weird:
"Access from your Country was disabled by the administrator."

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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[Emc-users] New Spindle working.

[John Dammeyer]

Progress.  Bergerda AC Servo driving the Spindle with a V belt still but at 
least driving it.  MESA 7i92H PWM,  small module from China for 0V-10V.   
S1000, F5 and M3 and M5 commands to start and stop.

https://youtu.be/VvXMoC917O0

Next step somehow incorporate an encoder onto the spindle to close the loop and 
the secondary break out board so I can use step/dir instead.

Then cast some new pulley blanks and change to toothed belt.  But for now it's 
so much quieter than the 2HP single phase motor.

John Dammeyer



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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

[Jon Elson]

On 07/15/2020 03:08 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:

Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540-CNC-VMC/0120091/
Anyone familiar with these, are there a good reasons not to buy it? (Or good 
reasons to buy it?)
Is this a good price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the late 1980s.


Well, it has a Fanuc control.  The servo amps are pretty 
proprietary, although Mesa may have a way to interface with 
them. Pico Systems (that's me) can convert the Fanuc serial 
encoders to look like
ordinary quadrature encoders with commutation.  Assuming it 
has Fanuc red cap motors, they are very good.  The tool 
changer is always the most difficult part.  Also, if the 
tool changer is hydraulic, that can be a nightmare, as well 
as power-hungry and noisy.


Jon


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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

[John Dammeyer]

Wow!  Weighs in at 18,750 lbs.  Requires 29,000 KVA from 3 phase.  I'd love to 
have something like that but I suspect my shop floor would crack.  I'm lucky 
that I have a pole with 3 wires so I could pay huge to get 3 phase installed.  
But my converted car port ceiling is probably too low.

Still enough to drool over.  What a fun project that would be.
John


> -Original Message-
> From: Todd Zuercher [mailto:to...@pgrahamdunn.com]
> Sent: July-15-20 1:09 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?
> 
> Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
> https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540-CNC-VMC/0120091/
> Anyone familiar with these, are there a good reasons not to buy it? (Or good 
> reasons to buy it?)
> Is this a good price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the late 
> 1980s.
> 
> Todd Zuercher
> P. Graham Dunn Inc.
> 630 Henry Street
> Dalton, Ohio 44618
> Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

[Bari]

Looks really nice. If the spindle is good then it's a good price.

There is a pair of Matsuura 500's on ebay for $1200ea or best that are 
running.


On 7/15/20 3:08 PM, Todd Zuercher wrote:

Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540-CNC-VMC/0120091/
Anyone familiar with these, are there a good reasons not to buy it? (Or good 
reasons to buy it?)
Is this a good price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the late 1980s.



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Re: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Wed, 15 Jul 2020, Todd Zuercher wrote:


Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2020 20:08:52 +
From: Todd Zuercher 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: [Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540-CNC-VMC/0120091/
Anyone familiar with these, are there a good reasons not to buy it? (Or good 
reasons to buy it?)
Is this a good price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the late 1980s.

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031


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Wow! that looks really clean for a machine of that age...
Not even any visible table divots

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics



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[Emc-users] Retrofit Candidate?

[Todd Zuercher]

Would this machine look like a good candidate for a Linuxcnc retrofit?
https://hgrinc.com/productDetail/CNC/Used-Mori-Seiki-Mori-Seiki-Mv4540-CNC-VMC/0120091/
Anyone familiar with these, are there a good reasons not to buy it? (Or good 
reasons to buy it?)
Is this a good price? I don't see a year, but guessing it's from the late 1980s.

Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031


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Re: [Emc-users] off topic: pwm with a stepper driver/motor

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 15 July 2020 08:29:55 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Wednesday 15 July 2020 07:40:50 Gene Heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday 15 July 2020 00:58:43 Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users 
wrote:
> > > There are sine wave controllers that do various smoothing things
> > > to run steppers smooth and silent. Trinamic calls it Spread Cycle
> > > and Stealth Chop. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0sJlGh9WNY On
> > > Tuesday, July 14, 2020, 11:18:22 AM MDT, Todd Zuercher
> > >  wrote:
> > >
> > >  If you can hear it, it isn't smooth.  I'd recommend using the
> > > finest micro stepping setting your driver offers, but simply not
> > > counting on more than 1/4 of a full step in your resolution
> > > accuracy.  But just because the motor and drive may not be able to
> > > physically achieve positioning accuracy much better than 1/4 step,
> > > doesn't mean that having the finer micro step resolution won't
> > > significantly contribute to smoother quieter motion.
> >
> > I would tend to agree with this, except for the slewing. There.
> > using a microstepping of more than 16 will run out of bandwidth in
> > the dm542's opto's and he may get stalls, which will require
> > rehomeing on polaris again before it knows where its at. So there it
> > might be advantageos to use pulse lengths that would set an overall
> > clocking limit below 200 kilohertz.
> >
> > Been there, done that on my machinery. A dm542 can turn a much
> > bigger motor just laying on the table at just above 3000 revs, but
> > when it stalls, its so sudden it jumps up in the air about an inch.
> > But with the divisor set at 16 or more, I lost speed at 32 and was
> > slower yet at 64.
> >
> > So most of my stuff is running on /8, which seems to be a good
> > compromise between speed and noise. The dm542 is a decent driver,
> > I'm running 9 of them here, 2 on TLM, 4 on the 6040, and 3 of them
> > on the GO704. Software stepping, as opposed to a mesa card, will
> > limit slew rates because the step rates are limited by base thread
> > speeds and the next increment faster is something the motor can't
> > accel to in one step so it stalls. And it was doing that on the
> > little hf mill at speeds it could cut at!
> >
> > So eventually a Mesa 5i25 found a home in that machine, at which
> > point I thought the psu voltage was the limit. That whole kit,
> > computer and all, is now runniing the 6040 at 200ipm rapids.  The
> > diff is the smaller, lower inductance motors. The one thing they did
> > right on the 6040. The rest of the electronics was BBLB stuff and
> > not capable of even being interfaced with linuxcnc. The vfd started
> > the spindle ok, but in random directions I couldn't control, so the
> > usual clone vfd from ebay now does exactly what linuxcnc tells it
> > to.
> >
> > What I am interested in is the stellarium interface, that seems to
> > be an extra cost option from a different source. My googling has not
> > found it for sale or even a price quote, but then my goggle-foo has
> > been found wanting before. I have a 10" Meade newtonian thats now
> > been standing face down behind the back door for about 20 years.
> > I've also the motorized pier mount. But I'm down in a cul-de-sac and
> > can just barely get down to polaris due to the tree line on the hill
> > to the north.  And a huge 60+ yo maple I don't own blocks much of
> > the below equatorial southern sky view. I should make it a building
> > as I'd like to do frame a week movie of eta-carinae, probably the
> > next supernova we'll get to see. I also have a lack of dark sky
> > problem, street lights are old and unshielded. Sigh... But that
> > interface interests me greatly.
>
> Better google-fu, found several sw packages that work with stellarium,
> and investigated EQMOD, a freebie DL that looks quite capable. UNK if
> winderz only. Talks over rs232.  Now need schematics for pier control,
> and there seem to be several such kits available that EQMOD can talk
> to. All I have is a hand tracking motor and a very simple speed
> control, teeny little thing, might be able to track for an hour. More
> research needed to make a proper az/el drive... But first I'm low on
> caffiene.
>

This pier it appears, has a 60 hz clock motor on the polar axis. Plugs 
into the wall, so zero smarts there. The teeny little stepper is on the 
end of an arm about 9" long and can drive it maybe 20 minutes in each 
direction, at 90 dgrees to the polar motion.  So a full polar mount is 
going to take some re-engineering. I can't make a vector wheel that big 
on an ender-3.  And I'm still calibrating it, as its currently making a 
32 tooth half pulley, with some slack at the rear of a 180 toothed belt 
wrapped around it, so I'm increaseing the x-y steps per mm about .05% at 
a pass until I get a good fit.  I doubled the speed of the slice, and 
the finish is actually better. Somewhere I have a box of nema 17 motors 
like original 5.25" floppy drives used for head carriage, would be ideal 
for this. But we had 

Re: [Emc-users] off topic: pwm with a stepper driver/motor

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 15 July 2020 07:40:50 Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Wednesday 15 July 2020 00:58:43 Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:
> > There are sine wave controllers that do various smoothing things to
> > run steppers smooth and silent. Trinamic calls it Spread Cycle and
> > Stealth Chop. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0sJlGh9WNY On
> > Tuesday, July 14, 2020, 11:18:22 AM MDT, Todd Zuercher
> >  wrote:
> >
> >  If you can hear it, it isn't smooth.  I'd recommend using the
> > finest micro stepping setting your driver offers, but simply not
> > counting on more than 1/4 of a full step in your resolution
> > accuracy.  But just because the motor and drive may not be able to
> > physically achieve positioning accuracy much better than 1/4 step,
> > doesn't mean that having the finer micro step resolution won't
> > significantly contribute to smoother quieter motion.
>
> I would tend to agree with this, except for the slewing. There. using
> a microstepping of more than 16 will run out of bandwidth in the
> dm542's opto's and he may get stalls, which will require rehomeing on
> polaris again before it knows where its at. So there it might be
> advantageos to use pulse lengths that would set an overall clocking
> limit below 200 kilohertz.
>
> Been there, done that on my machinery. A dm542 can turn a much bigger
> motor just laying on the table at just above 3000 revs, but when it
> stalls, its so sudden it jumps up in the air about an inch. But with
> the divisor set at 16 or more, I lost speed at 32 and was slower yet
> at 64.
>
> So most of my stuff is running on /8, which seems to be a good
> compromise between speed and noise. The dm542 is a decent driver, I'm
> running 9 of them here, 2 on TLM, 4 on the 6040, and 3 of them on the
> GO704. Software stepping, as opposed to a mesa card, will limit slew
> rates because the step rates are limited by base thread speeds and the
> next increment faster is something the motor can't accel to in one
> step so it stalls. And it was doing that on the little hf mill at
> speeds it could cut at!
>
> So eventually a Mesa 5i25 found a home in that machine, at which point
> I thought the psu voltage was the limit. That whole kit, computer and
> all, is now runniing the 6040 at 200ipm rapids.  The diff is the
> smaller, lower inductance motors. The one thing they did right on the
> 6040. The rest of the electronics was BBLB stuff and not capable of
> even being interfaced with linuxcnc. The vfd started the spindle ok,
> but in random directions I couldn't control, so the usual clone vfd
> from ebay now does exactly what linuxcnc tells it to.
>
> What I am interested in is the stellarium interface, that seems to be
> an extra cost option from a different source. My googling has not
> found it for sale or even a price quote, but then my goggle-foo has
> been found wanting before. I have a 10" Meade newtonian thats now been
> standing face down behind the back door for about 20 years. I've also
> the motorized pier mount. But I'm down in a cul-de-sac and can just
> barely get down to polaris due to the tree line on the hill to the
> north.  And a huge 60+ yo maple I don't own blocks much of the below
> equatorial southern sky view. I should make it a building as I'd like
> to do frame a week movie of eta-carinae, probably the next supernova
> we'll get to see. I also have a lack of dark sky problem, street
> lights are old and unshielded. Sigh... But that interface interests me
> greatly.
>
Better google-fu, found several sw packages that work with stellarium, 
and investigated EQMOD, a freebie DL that looks quite capable. UNK if 
winderz only. Talks over rs232.  Now need schematics for pier control, 
and there seem to be several such kits available that EQMOD can talk to.  
All I have is a hand tracking motor and a very simple speed control, 
teeny little thing, might be able to track for an hour. More research 
needed to make a proper az/el drive... But first I'm low on caffiene.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] off topic: pwm with a stepper driver/motor

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 15 July 2020 00:58:43 Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users wrote:

> There are sine wave controllers that do various smoothing things to
> run steppers smooth and silent. Trinamic calls it Spread Cycle and
> Stealth Chop. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0sJlGh9WNY On Tuesday,
> July 14, 2020, 11:18:22 AM MDT, Todd Zuercher 
> wrote:
>
>  If you can hear it, it isn't smooth.  I'd recommend using the finest
> micro stepping setting your driver offers, but simply not counting on
> more than 1/4 of a full step in your resolution accuracy.  But just
> because the motor and drive may not be able to physically achieve
> positioning accuracy much better than 1/4 step, doesn't mean that
> having the finer micro step resolution won't significantly contribute
> to smoother quieter motion.
>
I would tend to agree with this, except for the slewing. There. using a 
microstepping of more than 16 will run out of bandwidth in the dm542's 
opto's and he may get stalls, which will require rehomeing on polaris 
again before it knows where its at. So there it might be advantageos to 
use pulse lengths that would set an overall clocking limit below 200 
kilohertz.

Been there, done that on my machinery. A dm542 can turn a much bigger 
motor just laying on the table at just above 3000 revs, but when it 
stalls, its so sudden it jumps up in the air about an inch. But with the 
divisor set at 16 or more, I lost speed at 32 and was slower yet at 64.  

So most of my stuff is running on /8, which seems to be a good compromise 
between speed and noise. The dm542 is a decent driver, I'm running 9 of 
them here, 2 on TLM, 4 on the 6040, and 3 of them on the GO704. Software 
stepping, as opposed to a mesa card, will limit slew rates because the 
step rates are limited by base thread speeds and the next increment 
faster is something the motor can't accel to in one step so it stalls. 
And it was doing that on the little hf mill at speeds it could cut at!

So eventually a Mesa 5i25 found a home in that machine, at which point I 
thought the psu voltage was the limit. That whole kit, computer and all, 
is now runniing the 6040 at 200ipm rapids.  The diff is the smaller, 
lower inductance motors. The one thing they did right on the 6040. The 
rest of the electronics was BBLB stuff and not capable of even being 
interfaced with linuxcnc. The vfd started the spindle ok, but in random 
directions I couldn't control, so the usual clone vfd from ebay now does 
exactly what linuxcnc tells it to.

What I am interested in is the stellarium interface, that seems to be an 
extra cost option from a different source. My googling has not found it 
for sale or even a price quote, but then my goggle-foo has been found 
wanting before. I have a 10" Meade newtonian thats now been standing 
face down behind the back door for about 20 years. I've also the 
motorized pier mount. But I'm down in a cul-de-sac and can just barely 
get down to polaris due to the tree line on the hill to the north.  And 
a huge 60+ yo maple I don't own blocks much of the below equatorial 
southern sky view. I should make it a building as I'd like to do frame a 
week movie of eta-carinae, probably the next supernova we'll get to see. 
I also have a lack of dark sky problem, street lights are old and 
unshielded. Sigh... But that interface interests me greatly.
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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