Re: [Emc-users] Tool presetter

[John Dammeyer]

> -Original Message-
> From: N [mailto:nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com]
> Sent: August-31-20 9:21 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Tool presetter
> 
> > I have one of these.
> > Fowler 54-575-600 Electronic Edge Finder with Cylindrical Tip, 0.200" 
> > Stylus, 1/2" Shank
> >
> >  I use it with the Shumatech  DRO to find edges or the center of something 
> > round.  The DRO-350 has a feature for that.  Eventually
> I'll wire up a cable that can be sensed by LinuxCNC to detect the edge 
> automatically.
> 
> Was also thinking about a cable, however need to connect it each time 
> otherwise tool changer will slowly turn it into a twisted cable.
> Expect they are more or less equally good as 3D taster but much cheaper.
> 
Nicklas

You make a good point.  It should be possible to make some sort of holder which 
fits around a TT mill holder shank.  The holder could have a small Blue Tooth 
Low Power module that signals contact. 

The issue might be response time.   Or noise that delays the contact signal 
long enough to break the probe.

All that is required then is a battery and we really don't want it powered all 
the time.  So that's another issue that needs to be addressed.   Since the TT 
holders are pressed against the spindle for repeatability some sort of switch 
in the holder could also turn it on.

For other types of holders that use the draw bar to pull in the holder, the 
center pull tab could potentially be the connection that closes the circuit.  

John Dammeyer



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Re: [Emc-users] Tool presetter

[N]

> I have one of these. 
> Fowler 54-575-600 Electronic Edge Finder with Cylindrical Tip, 0.200" Stylus, 
> 1/2" Shank 
> 
>  I use it with the Shumatech  DRO to find edges or the center of something 
> round.  The DRO-350 has a feature for that.  Eventually I'll wire up a cable 
> that can be sensed by LinuxCNC to detect the edge automatically.

Was also thinking about a cable, however need to connect it each time otherwise 
tool changer will slowly turn it into a twisted cable. Expect they are more or 
less equally good as 3D taster but much cheaper.

> It won't help me set up the tool height for a tool table.  I have a bunch of 
> TT type tooling so eventually I'll need something for detecting where the 
> tool is.  Probably some sort of spring loaded contact that is a precise 
> distance from where it's set.

Was thinking spring loaded, spring only because of tool crash into part, Nissin 
have very accurate wit LED but I have also seen with cable.


Regards Nicklas Karlsson


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Re: [Emc-users] Tool presetter

[John Dammeyer]

I have one of these. 
Fowler 54-575-600 Electronic Edge Finder with Cylindrical Tip, 0.200" Stylus, 
1/2" Shank 

 I use it with the Shumatech  DRO to find edges or the center of something 
round.  The DRO-350 has a feature for that.  Eventually I'll wire up a cable 
that can be sensed by LinuxCNC to detect the edge automatically.

It won't help me set up the tool height for a tool table.  I have a bunch of TT 
type tooling so eventually I'll need something for detecting where the tool is. 
 Probably some sort of spring loaded contact that is a precise distance from 
where it's set.

John Dammeyer


> -Original Message-
> From: N [mailto:nicklas.karlsso...@gmail.com]
> Sent: August-31-20 12:40 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Tool presetter
> 
> > On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 at 18:41, N  wrote:
> >
> > > As tool usually is a rather good conductor
> >
> > Yes, even carbide.
> >
> > >  and sensor could be made of conductive material most obvious would be 
> > > simple spring loaded contact meausurement for both.
> >
> > I have just spent nearly £8 on one from Amazon as an experiment.
> 
> I also found cheap edge detector and touch plate or similar for tool length 
> on Amazon, have seen 5µm as claimed accuracy and it's
> probably good enough for now so I will probably try them. At least until I 
> figure out what might be better.
> 
> 
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Re: [Emc-users] Tool presetter

[N]

> On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 at 18:41, N  wrote:
> 
> > As tool usually is a rather good conductor
> 
> Yes, even carbide.
> 
> >  and sensor could be made of conductive material most obvious would be 
> > simple spring loaded contact meausurement for both.
> 
> I have just spent nearly £8 on one from Amazon as an experiment.

I also found cheap edge detector and touch plate or similar for tool length on 
Amazon, have seen 5µm as claimed accuracy and it's probably good enough for now 
so I will probably try them. At least until I figure out what might be better.


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Re: [Emc-users] Work coordinate offsets produced by Fusion360

[Gene Heskett]

On Monday 31 August 2020 13:00:39 andy pugh wrote:

> On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 at 05:40, jrmitchellj  
wrote:
> > could save the .var file to a nema relevant to the parts, then when
> > I need to make some more of those, move that file back to
> > linuxcnc.var, start up the system, and be ready to go with the
> > setups.
>
> You could run a python script to MDI a new set of coordinate system
> offsets in.
>
> One of the G10 variants writes straight to the offset table.
> I suggest Python as then you can store the offsets in a text file, or
> database, or in the cloud as a JSON object if you value being trendy
> more than a working solution.

And thats even easier to do than my idea.  One to restore normal, and one 
to setup the specialty stuff, and the only limit is disk space,  luv it.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Tool presetter

[Thomas D. Dean]

On 2020-08-31 10:39, N wrote:

Anyone have any experience on where to find a good tool presetter? And/Or edge 
detector?

As tool usually is a rather good conductor and sensor could be made of 
conductive material most obvious would be simple spring loaded contact 
meausurement for both.

I found Nissin have a Centering Gauge Swing Type with very high 
accuracy/repeatability and would guess they use contact measurement but also 
guess they are very expensive since they want customer to ask for price.


MSC


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Re: [Emc-users] Tool presetter

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 at 18:41, N  wrote:

> As tool usually is a rather good conductor

Yes, even carbide.

>  and sensor could be made of conductive material most obvious would be simple 
> spring loaded contact meausurement for both.

I have just spent nearly £8 on one from Amazon as an experiment.

I suspect that the ones with a switch inside (preferably a kinematic
probe) are probably better, but this is specifically for an
almost-one-off.
I got very close to just making one, but have other things on my plate

For work probing I use a proper touch-probe, but then I found a load
of them in a skip at work.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Because the hardware store was 4 miles away...

[Sam Sokolik]

I am adding poor man's trajectory planning.. (not really planning)

adding the ability to add a tangent-tangent radius to the polygon..   This
is so there isn't an abrupt change in direction.

The one pic shows a 0 radius vs .020 radius...  The over shoot for the
given spindle rpm is all but zero.





On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 11:22 PM Sam Sokolik  wrote:

> some close up-ish with slow mo...
>
> https://youtu.be/_S_bGAuTN0s
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 3:13 AM andy pugh  wrote:
>
>> (Off topic, but interesting)
>>
>> On Tue, 14 Jul 2020 at 02:11, Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users
>>  wrote:
>> >
>> > Used to be mechanical drive attachments for some lathes to move the
>> cross slide in and out for cutting threads for taps.
>>
>> Yes, Holbrook used to offer a sub-speed head (clamped to the bed,
>> connected to the spindle, output a speed lower by a factor of 6 on a
>> coaxial secondary spindle nose) and a set of relieving equipment
>> (special top slide , back power shaft, sets of cams)
>>
>> A mesmerising device for other lathes was developed by the model
>> engineering community, the Eureka attachment.
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_kqi3dqr50
>>
>> It almost seems like a shame to do it with CNC now.
>>
>> --
>> atp
>> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
>> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
>> lunatics."
>> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>>
>

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[Emc-users] Tool presetter

[N]

Anyone have any experience on where to find a good tool presetter? And/Or edge 
detector?

As tool usually is a rather good conductor and sensor could be made of 
conductive material most obvious would be simple spring loaded contact 
meausurement for both.

I found Nissin have a Centering Gauge Swing Type with very high 
accuracy/repeatability and would guess they use contact measurement but also 
guess they are very expensive since they want customer to ask for price.


Regards Nicklas Karlsson


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Re: [Emc-users] Work coordinate offsets produced by Fusion360

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 at 05:40, jrmitchellj  wrote:

> could save the .var file to a nema relevant to the parts, then when I need
> to make some more of those, move that file back to linuxcnc.var, start up
> the system, and be ready to go with the setups.

You could run a python script to MDI a new set of coordinate system offsets in.

One of the G10 variants writes straight to the offset table.
I suggest Python as then you can store the offsets in a text file, or
database, or in the cloud as a JSON object if you value being trendy
more than a working solution.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Work coordinate offsets produced by Fusion360

[jrmitchellj]

Thank you Gene!  I will look into it.

Fusion is really good at allowing you to set up multiple fixtures to run
parts in to minimize tool changes.
I have made fixture plates to machine the end plates on a couple of the
Hammond extruded enclosures.  Five positions, four screws to hold down the
plates.  You just need to set up the coordinates for each position on the
fixture plate.  That was easy!  These blocks have details on each surface,
so many more setups needed.  For this job, it is five pieces X 35, so I
thought I needed some speed-ups.

--J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
jrmitche...@gmail.com


"Good enough is the enemy of excellence"author unknown


On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 10:36 PM Gene Heskett  wrote:

> On Monday 31 August 2020 00:38:00 jrmitchellj wrote:
>
> > Yeah, I am sure it is in the post processor.  I pulled it down and had
> > a look at it, but I am not a programmer. I found where itis stated,
> > but have no clue how to change it.
> >
> > I am running out of workspaces.   I am doing a 2-up run with a blank
> > in each end of the vice, using workspace rotation.  Pushing my
> > envelope! I am thinking that once I have a couple of parts lined up &
> > touched off, I could save the .var file to a nema relevant to the
> > parts, then when I need to make some more of those, move that file
> > back to linuxcnc.var, start up the system, and be ready to go with the
> > setups.  save an hour right there. But 2 parts, six sides with
> > features to be machined, means 12 offsets. LinuxCNC has 9.
>
> Reading between the lines in the docs a bit, I have expanded that file in
> terms of the number of vars saved by one or 3 a time or two when I
> needed a startup variable that was fixed at the LinuxCNC restart. For a
> full set of G59.1 style co-ords is 9 #4xxx etc locations. As I recall
> it, once they are init'ed in the .ini file, they become part of the
> linuxcnc.var file automaticaly.  But its been yonks since I did that,
> and I don't know where it is in the docs now.  You would need 27 more
> locations to fix those 3 additional co-ord tables, but with a 4G r-pi I
> think it could be made to work.
>
> In your gcode, you would need to write a subroutine to re-init that map #
> from these added vars, and call the subroutine to reset it for each end
> of the vice.  Then another sub could do the exact same operations, using
> the same co-ord map after its been reset to the values for the other end
> of the vise. And comment the heck out of your gcode so if you need to
> look at it again in 6 months, it will be self-explanatory.
>
> Good luck J. Ray.
>
>
> > --J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
> > jrmitche...@gmail.com
> >
> >
> > "Good enough is the enemy of excellence"author unknown
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 5:32 PM andy pugh  wrote:
> > > On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 at 01:25, jrmitchellj 
> wrote:
> > > > All was going well until I got to G59.1 (offset 7 in F360).  It
> > > > formats
> > >
> > > the
> > >
> > > > command as "g59.1 P1", and LCNC does not seem to like it.
> > >
> > > That sounds like an issue with the post processor. It's easy to
> > > imagine that some other system would use G59.1 PN to extend the
> > > coordinate systems.
> > >
> > > I have never even noticed where Fusion lets you choose.
> > >
> > > --
> > > atp
> > > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > > lunatics."
> > > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author)
> If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
>  - Louis D. Brandeis
> Genes Web page 
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Work coordinate offsets produced by Fusion360

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 at 17:34, jrmitchellj  wrote:

> Swapping .var files seems the easiest way to go,

I think that swapping postprocessor files is probably the easiest way.

You can't specify a var file at the command line. But you can create
duplicate INI files which specify different var files.
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/man/man1/linuxcnc.1.html

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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Re: [Emc-users] Work coordinate offsets produced by Fusion360

[jrmitchellj]

Now that change is very easy to understand!

I was trying to report this to a person I was incontact with @ HSMWorks,
who (I think) released the first LinuxCNC post for HSMWorks, but that was
around the time that Autodesk acquired them.  They do not seem to be there
now. (or their email address has changed)

Swapping .var files seems the easiest way to go, and I will looking what
Gene is suggesting.
Just curious, can the .var file be specified on a command line when
starting LCNC?

Thank you all for the help!

--J. Ray Mitchell Jr.
jrmitche...@gmail.com



"Good enough is the enemy of excellence"author unknown


On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 4:13 AM andy pugh  wrote:

> On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 at 05:40, jrmitchellj  wrote:
>
> > I am running out of workspaces.
>
> You can have as many as you want if you can swap var files around:
> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/config/ini-config.html#gcode:ini-features
>
> It means stopping and re-starting LinuxCNC with a different var file
> for a specific job, but it might be an option.
>
> But editing the postprocessor doesn't look so hard. It is apparently
> Javascript and this is the section:
>
>   if (workOffset > 0) {
> if (workOffset > 6) {
>   var p = workOffset - 6; // 1->...
>   if (p > 3) {
> error(localize("Work offset out of range."));
> return;
>   } else {
> if (workOffset != currentWorkOffset) {
>   writeBlock(gFormat.format(59.1), "P" + p); // G59.1P
>   currentWorkOffset = workOffset;
> }
>   }
> } else {
>   if (workOffset != currentWorkOffset) {
> writeBlock(gFormat.format(53 + workOffset)); // G54->G59
> currentWorkOffset = workOffset;
>   }
> }
>   }
>
> I decided to completely rewrite that section in my postprocessor, to
> the (lightly tested) following code.
>
>   if (workOffset != currentWorkOffset) {
>   switch (workOffset){
> case 0:
> return;
> case 1:
> case 2:
> case 3:
> case 4:
> case 5:
> case 6:
> writeBlock(gFormat.format(53 + workOffset)); // G54->G59
> break;
> case 7:
> writeBlock(gFormat.format(59.1));
> break;
> case 8:
> writeBlock(gFormat.format(59.2));
> break;
> case 9:
> writeBlock(gFormat.format(59.3));
> break;
> default:
> error(localize("Work offset out of range."));
> return
> }
> currentWorkOffset = workOffset;
>   }
>
> Alternatively, download the modified postprocessor from here and add
> it to your "Personal Posts"
> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Fusion360
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] Noise Problems with Pico Systems USC and Gecko 203V Stepper Drives

[Matthew Herd]

Thanks all for the advice.  I now have plenty to try.  I may just replace them 
for something else though.

> On Aug 27, 2020, at 11:30 PM, Chris Albertson  
> wrote:
> 
> I have to admit most of my noise-hunting experience is with vacuum
> tube-based amplifiers.   But the exact same techniques apply.  The first
> step is to always apply the best-practice construction technique.  Then if
> that does not quiet things down you cut the system in half and see which
> half still has the noise problem and then cut that part in half and so on.
> 
> Using this we can make tube amps today that are better than anything
> people could buy back in the tube era.  All the advice about physical
> separation, twisting all the wires and shields and star grounds really does
> work.  But it is a lot of work to do as you have to think about every inch
> of every wire.
> 
> Hey, it could be worse, be glad you were not the one who had to work out
> the wiring for something like the photo below.  Seriously they make up
> these rules about 10X cable diameter spacing and such so stuff almost works
> the first time even really hard cases like below.   Same with my
> Amplifiers.  I apply every technique I know and they now work the first
> time.  Before it would take days to debug.
> 
> [image: poza-China-roboti-1280x620.jpg]
> 
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 6:25 PM Matthew Herd  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Chris,
>> 
>> The frequency of the noise as measured on the ground appears to be a
>> ringing signal repeating at roughly 600kHz.  I guess my previous
>> measurement of 80kHz was wrong.  I’m not sure why it would be different.
>> I’m not 100% sure that it’s a consistent 600kHz, and might actually be
>> several signals overlaid.  The noise events appear to ring, as they decay
>> from a larger sinusoidal spike, with about 6 sinusoidal pulses in total
>> until they taper off.
>> 
>> The wires are generally bundled, so that may be a factor.
>> 
>> The housings on the motors, drivers, and supplies are grounded to the
>> machine.  Only the encoders and motor to drive cables are shielded, and
>> they’re shielded on only one end.  The remaining wires are simply primary
>> cable and are not grounded.  Only some of the signal wires are twisted
>> pairs.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> Matt
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 27, 2020, at 1:24 PM, Chris Albertson 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Can you measure the frequency of the noise?  If this is a digital scope
>> it
>>> might be able to show a spectra.  Lacking that you can eyeball-estimate
>> the
>>> period or width of any spikes.
>>> 
>>> The other bit of information we don't have is how the wiring is laid out.
>>> Best practice would be to use tightly twisted pairs where the current in
>>> each of the two members of the pair is equal and also to never bundle
>> power
>>> and signal wires.  The field around a twisted pair is close to zero
>>> after about 10 cable-diameters so if a twisted power cable is 3mm thick,
>>> keep other wires 30mm away.
>>> 
>>> Are all the housing on the motors, drivers, and supplies grounded.  This
>>> would be to a protective ground  Also are the wires shielded and grounded
>>> on one and only one end?
>>> 
>>> If the noise is determined to be a relative high frequency then ferrite
>>> cores on the wires help but they no nothing for 120 Hz.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 10:00 AM Matthew Herd 
>> wrote:
>>> 
 I spent some time the week before last investigating the noise issue
>> that
 I’ve been having on my Bridgeport BOSS mill.  The system architecture
 involves a single phase 240V input, which powers a VFD for the 2HP
>> spindle
 motor, a 120V step down transformer to power some devices on the machine
 (spray mister, accessory lights, cabinet ventilation fans), and a
 72V/24V/12V DC power supply to power the USC board and the three Gecko
>> 203V
 stepper drivers.  First, I disconnected every device from the DC power
 supply by disconnecting the positive terminal and disconnected one of
>> the
 240V AC wires to the VFD.  I measured the noise from the ground bolt to
>> the
 ground pin of the 12V output of the power supply.  Noise was nominal,
 perhaps 20-40mV peak to peak at 50ms/div (as I recall).  Reconnecting
>> the
 VFD gave approximately 600mV of noise peak to peak.  This seemed rather
 surprising given the fact that I’m essentially measuring the same wire
 across about 18".
 
 I installed a Rasmi VFD filter and I re-wired the grounds.  Instead of 2
 grounds which were connected via the machine, I ran all grounds back to
>> the
 ground bolt in the power cabinet.  Previously, the 72V ground to the
>> drives
 was only wired directly from the power supply to the drives.  It was
 isolated from the other power and logic grounds, but is now common.  The
 only ground that was not run to the power cabinet ground was the
>> stepper’s
 step and direction signal ground.  This ground is connected at the USC
 board 

Re: [Emc-users] Work coordinate offsets produced by Fusion360

[andy pugh]

On Mon, 31 Aug 2020 at 05:40, jrmitchellj  wrote:

> I am running out of workspaces.

You can have as many as you want if you can swap var files around:
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.8/html/config/ini-config.html#gcode:ini-features

It means stopping and re-starting LinuxCNC with a different var file
for a specific job, but it might be an option.

But editing the postprocessor doesn't look so hard. It is apparently
Javascript and this is the section:

  if (workOffset > 0) {
if (workOffset > 6) {
  var p = workOffset - 6; // 1->...
  if (p > 3) {
error(localize("Work offset out of range."));
return;
  } else {
if (workOffset != currentWorkOffset) {
  writeBlock(gFormat.format(59.1), "P" + p); // G59.1P
  currentWorkOffset = workOffset;
}
  }
} else {
  if (workOffset != currentWorkOffset) {
writeBlock(gFormat.format(53 + workOffset)); // G54->G59
currentWorkOffset = workOffset;
  }
}
  }

I decided to completely rewrite that section in my postprocessor, to
the (lightly tested) following code.

  if (workOffset != currentWorkOffset) {
  switch (workOffset){
case 0:
return;
case 1:
case 2:
case 3:
case 4:
case 5:
case 6:
writeBlock(gFormat.format(53 + workOffset)); // G54->G59
break;
case 7:
writeBlock(gFormat.format(59.1));
break;
case 8:
writeBlock(gFormat.format(59.2));
break;
case 9:
writeBlock(gFormat.format(59.3));
break;
default:
error(localize("Work offset out of range."));
return
}
currentWorkOffset = workOffset;
  }

Alternatively, download the modified postprocessor from here and add
it to your "Personal Posts"
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Fusion360

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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