Re: [Emc-users] GUI Feature Request

[Rafael Skodlar]

Hi Todd,

On 1/5/21 6:33 AM, Todd Zuercher wrote:

I've noticed what appears to be a lot of new development of new GUIs for 
Linuxcnc lately.  Here is an idea that I would love to see implemented in a new 
GUI, but I do not have the programming skills to implement it.  For our 
production machines it would be nice for the supervisors to be able to set up a 
que of g-code files for shifts to run.  The que would be a list of g-code 
files, and their location paths (possibly a network location), the number of 
repeats to run, and possibly a material to be used description.  Then the 
machine operators would simply unload/load the machine, and press start, once 
the required number of runs is completed the gui would automatically load the 
next g-code file in the que and prompt the user what material to load for the 
next run.  How hard might something like this be to implement?


Todd Zuercher
P. Graham Dunn Inc.
630 Henry Street
Dalton, Ohio 44618
Phone:  (330)828-2105ext. 2031


At least part of your proposal seems to be a logistics problem that 
systems administrators have to deal with from time to time.

Think about it as a library of books or paper docs.

Good design should include hierarchy, document (file) naming scheme, 
aging, logging, and index.


${HOME}/jobs//
${HOME}/jobs//.jobs
${HOME}/jobs//2021-01-02/_partx-01.gcode
${HOME}/jobs//2021-01-02/_party-02.gcode

${HOME}/jobs//.jobs
${HOME}/jobs//_party-01.gcode
${HOME}/jobs//_party-02.gcode
${HOME}/jobs//_party-03.gcode
${HOME}/jobs//_partx-01.gcode

${HOME}/jobs/allJobs.list  would contain file names and short 
description about them in one line. Could be implemented in json format.


In general, file names alone should give you a hint where they come from 
or belong to.


Large part of this could be done simply with a set of bash scripts. 
Advanced design should be done in python IMO. Text based design with 
ncurses would work fine in terminal mode. Midnight commander for 
managing files is an excellent example of what I mean.
If the number of files grows into tens or hundreds I would use sqlite to 
keep track of it all.


One thing should be forbidden, spaces in the file names. File names 
should not start with uppercase characters because that requires two 
fingers to type which is not always convenient.


--
Rafael


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Carousel component indexing/trigger problem

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

 Look for emco cnc lathe compact 5 turret on YouTube and you'll see several 
videos of it operating, stock and modified. Stock, they are pretty at changing 
tools.This guy used EdingCNC and wrote a subroutine to operate the upgraded 
stepper motor he put on the turret. Quite speedy changes. The original steppers 
on the Compact 5 were just 75 steps rather than the typical 180.

"The Emco turret has a ratchet wheel and a pawl to keep the turretplate in 
position.. i wrote the subroutine for the toolchange so that it rotates 4 
degrees extra to release the pawl, and then 10 degrees back to put the ratchet 
wheel firmly to the pawl.. with this ratchet wheel.. the turret can only turn 
in one direction.. if you look closely.. you can see the turret turning back a 
bit after a toolchange." 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfIzuWAEZiw
Here's a demo of a stock standalone Compact 5 CNC lathe turret. Note it rotates 
quite a bit farther past the tool position before backing up to lock, and the 
rotation speed is slower. Crazy thing was programmed to be able to advance 6 
positions, which runs it around 360 degrees back to the same tool. Why not have 
it ignore commands for a 6 position change?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kNYLt6ne_w
'Tis a shame the Welturn and Welmill upgrades for the Emco standalone lathe and 
mill are long out of production and nobody has bothered to clone or make lower 
complexity functional equivalents with 21st century components.

On Friday, January 8, 2021, 5:07:36 AM MST, andy pugh  
wrote:  
 On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 07:26, Andreas Linnarsson
 wrote:

> Is it possible to have the carousel component ignore the first pocket
> sensor trigger in order to proceed to the next slot or, can i be run in
> some kind of timer mode so this doesn't happen? Any inputs would be greatly
> appreciated!

Can you tell us your loadrt string for carousel? So that I can work
out how the component is behaving in your case?  
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Carousel component indexing/trigger problem

[Andreas Linnarsson]

Yes, I'm aware of the HAL scope but I'm not very experienced using it. But
I'll try to record a sample of a turret jog.

Den fre 8 jan. 2021 kl 21:59 skrev andy pugh :

> On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 19:53, Andreas Linnarsson
>  wrote:
> >
> > I could record a movie clip if it helps but I've commented the picture
> > hoping that it would clarify what is happening during a tool change.
>
> Are you aware of Halscope? A halscope trace of the input and output
> pins of the carousel component would be very useful.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 8 Jan 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2021 21:08:55 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

Not having Xilinx Impact tool on the Rpi (or anywhere
at the moment), I found a tutorial on setting up
OpenOCD for jtag on the Rpi.  I have installed OpenOCD
on my RPi 3B+ and connected the gpio to the JTAG pins
on the 7i90HD, following this tutorial:

https://movr0.com/2016/09/02/use-raspberry-pi-23-as-a-jtagswd-adapter/

The last step seems to be to make a configuration
file for the target device.  The EEPROMs are WInbond
25Q16JVNIQ as best I can read the chip labels.  OpenOCD
doesn't have anything that looks directly applicable.
I also don't know where the two chips are in the jtag
chain.


You dont need to do this if you can program the FPGA
(and JTAG programming large EEPROMS is glacially slow)

If you can program the FPGA via JTAG, you program the FPGA with a SPI 
configuration, and then run mesaflash from the RPI to write the

flash memory




Am I heading down a rat hole, or getting close to success?

Thanks again.
-- Ralph

From: Peter C. Wallace [p...@mesanet.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 7, 2021 3:47 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


On Thu, 7 Jan 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2021 23:37:03 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

I assumed that the 7i90hd would recognize SPI
directly, like the 7c81 does.  Do I have to go
dig up a parallel port computer from somewhere
and get at least mesaflash running on it just
so I can get spi working for the pi?  That is an
unfortunate hurdle.  I don't see anything in the
manual about needing to load the correct bitstream
over parallel in order to use spi.  In fact, I read
this in the manual:


Yep, you need to have SPI firmware loaded in the 7I90HD
default 7I90HD firmware is EPP, so a device with a EPP
interface is needed to load the SPI configuration
I would suggest loading the SPI interface into the
secondary flash leaving the primary as EPP for a fallback

That is, power the 7I90 with the flash jumper in the "P" position
them move the jumper to "S" before loadin the SPI firmware




"Linux and Windows utility programs mesaflash and mesaflash.exe are provided to
write configuration files to the 7I90HD EEPROM via the RS-422 interface and 
LBP16. The
linux utility can also write configuration files via the EPP interface. These 
files depend on
a simple SPI interface built into both the standard user FPGA bitfiles and the 
fallback
bitfile."



Well there are 2 SPI interfaces, the HM2 compatible host interface (which needs
specific SPI firmware) and the SPI Flash memory interface (which is in HM2
memory space and allows access to the SPI flash chip)



I can tack on a pullup to SDO.  I have put four
scope probes on the four signals, and see data
when interrogating the 7c81, but not the 7i90hd.
The clock from the pi is correct.

Thanks again.
-- Ralph

From: Peter C. Wallace [p...@mesanet.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 7, 2021 3:18 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd


Looks right

2 layer should be fine as long as the ground is solid (wide)
between the 7I90 and the RPI (and lo longer than a couple of
inches

You might try adding a pullup to SDO (7I90 15) to see if you read
0x which would indicate the the 7I90 is not driving SDO

Sure you have a SPI config in the 7I90?


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-usersdata=04%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7C5c8bbaf5f3984eec51d008d8b366a9bc%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C0%7C637456600811311135%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=m8smz8GxQR83SZ5IKfEacp6Rr12LQnmpghFS5H0l1JM%3Dreserved=0


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net

Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

[Ralph Stirling]

Not having Xilinx Impact tool on the Rpi (or anywhere
at the moment), I found a tutorial on setting up
OpenOCD for jtag on the Rpi.  I have installed OpenOCD 
on my RPi 3B+ and connected the gpio to the JTAG pins 
on the 7i90HD, following this tutorial:

https://movr0.com/2016/09/02/use-raspberry-pi-23-as-a-jtagswd-adapter/

The last step seems to be to make a configuration
file for the target device.  The EEPROMs are WInbond
25Q16JVNIQ as best I can read the chip labels.  OpenOCD
doesn't have anything that looks directly applicable.
I also don't know where the two chips are in the jtag
chain.

Am I heading down a rat hole, or getting close to success?

Thanks again.
-- Ralph

From: Peter C. Wallace [p...@mesanet.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 7, 2021 3:47 PM
To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd

CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


On Thu, 7 Jan 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:

> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2021 23:37:03 +
> From: Ralph Stirling 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd
>
> I assumed that the 7i90hd would recognize SPI
> directly, like the 7c81 does.  Do I have to go
> dig up a parallel port computer from somewhere
> and get at least mesaflash running on it just
> so I can get spi working for the pi?  That is an
> unfortunate hurdle.  I don't see anything in the
> manual about needing to load the correct bitstream
> over parallel in order to use spi.  In fact, I read
> this in the manual:

Yep, you need to have SPI firmware loaded in the 7I90HD
default 7I90HD firmware is EPP, so a device with a EPP
interface is needed to load the SPI configuration
I would suggest loading the SPI interface into the
secondary flash leaving the primary as EPP for a fallback

That is, power the 7I90 with the flash jumper in the "P" position
them move the jumper to "S" before loadin the SPI firmware


>
> "Linux and Windows utility programs mesaflash and mesaflash.exe are provided 
> to
> write configuration files to the 7I90HD EEPROM via the RS-422 interface and 
> LBP16. The
> linux utility can also write configuration files via the EPP interface. These 
> files depend on
> a simple SPI interface built into both the standard user FPGA bitfiles and 
> the fallback
> bitfile."


Well there are 2 SPI interfaces, the HM2 compatible host interface (which needs
specific SPI firmware) and the SPI Flash memory interface (which is in HM2
memory space and allows access to the SPI flash chip)

>
> I can tack on a pullup to SDO.  I have put four
> scope probes on the four signals, and see data
> when interrogating the 7c81, but not the 7i90hd.
> The clock from the pi is correct.
>
> Thanks again.
> -- Ralph
> 
> From: Peter C. Wallace [p...@mesanet.com]
> Sent: Thursday, January 7, 2021 3:18 PM
> To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)
> Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi 3b+ to 7i90hd
>
>
> Looks right
>
> 2 layer should be fine as long as the ground is solid (wide)
> between the 7I90 and the RPI (and lo longer than a couple of
> inches
>
> You might try adding a pullup to SDO (7I90 15) to see if you read
> 0x which would indicate the the 7I90 is not driving SDO
>
> Sure you have a SPI config in the 7I90?
>
>
> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
>
> (\__/)
> (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
> (")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
>
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-usersdata=04%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7C5c8bbaf5f3984eec51d008d8b366a9bc%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C0%7C637456600811311135%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=m8smz8GxQR83SZ5IKfEacp6Rr12LQnmpghFS5H0l1JM%3Dreserved=0
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.sourceforge.net%2Flists%2Flistinfo%2Femc-usersdata=04%7C01%7Cralph.stirling%40wallawalla.edu%7C5c8bbaf5f3984eec51d008d8b366a9bc%7Cd958f048e43142779c8debfb75e7aa64%7C0%7C0%7C637456600811311135%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=m8smz8GxQR83SZ5IKfEacp6Rr12LQnmpghFS5H0l1JM%3Dreserved=0
>

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net

Re: [Emc-users] Carousel component indexing/trigger problem

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 19:53, Andreas Linnarsson
 wrote:
>
> I could record a movie clip if it helps but I've commented the picture
> hoping that it would clarify what is happening during a tool change.

Are you aware of Halscope? A halscope trace of the input and output
pins of the carousel component would be very useful.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] GUI Feature Request

[Sven Wesley]

Den tis 5 jan. 2021 kl 15:36 skrev Todd Zuercher :

> I've noticed what appears to be a lot of new development of new GUIs for
> Linuxcnc lately.  Here is an idea that I would love to see implemented in a
> new GUI, but I do not have the programming skills to implement it.  For our
> production machines it would be nice for the supervisors to be able to set
> up a que of g-code files for shifts to run.  The que would be a list of
> g-code files, and their location paths (possibly a network location), the
> number of repeats to run, and possibly a material to be used description.
> Then the machine operators would simply unload/load the machine, and press
> start, once the required number of runs is completed the gui would
> automatically load the next g-code file in the que and prompt the user what
> material to load for the next run.  How hard might something like this be
> to implement?
>
>
> Todd Zuercher
>
>
In the workshop I was working in during the 90's we already used this
setup. All machines were fed with programs from a minix server that we used
as a file service at the CAM stations.
Spontaneusly I would say that if you have a File/HTTP server it should be
fairly easy to make a user space component that fetches the programs, i.e.
not so much GUI related really but you can get a tab or dialog listing
upcoming runs.

/Sven

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Carousel component indexing/trigger problem

[Andreas Linnarsson]

I could record a movie clip if it helps but I've commented the picture
hoping that it would clarify what is happening during a tool change. Can I
send movie clips to the mailing list? It didn't accept zip-files the last
time I tried...

Regards,

Andreas

Den fre 8 jan. 2021 kl 19:28 skrev andy pugh :

> On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 18:03, Andreas Linnarsson
>  wrote:
> >
> > I don't know if you've seen my attached picture before but it shows the
> > signals during a complete turn of the turret (slightly more than a turn
> to
> > be honest).
>
> Yes, (but it isn't making much sense to me).
> But I want to see what carousel is doing that doesn't match what I expect.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


PC Turn 50 Turret.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Great display of 28-axis machine control - totally OT

[Nicklas SB Karlsson]

Den 2021-01-08 kl. 11:05, skrev Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users:

It's because of the Toshiba Kongsberg scandal. In the late 70's to early 80's 
there were violations of export controls on advanced machine tools and control 
electronics, such that the equipment ended up in the USSR via various pathways 
and less than a year after obtaining the machine tools, Soviet submarines were 
running quieter thanks to their newly acquired ability to manufacture better 
propellers with reduced cavitation. Getting that equipment also provided the 
Soviets with new designs to copy and expand on to enhance their own machine 
tools.


Do not underestimate the Russians. They drink plenty of vodka in average 
but also had the great mathematicians Kolmogorov and Galerkin.



Nicklas SB Karlsson



___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Carousel component indexing/trigger problem

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 18:03, Andreas Linnarsson
 wrote:
>
> I don't know if you've seen my attached picture before but it shows the
> signals during a complete turn of the turret (slightly more than a turn to
> be honest).

Yes, (but it isn't making much sense to me).
But I want to see what carousel is doing that doesn't match what I expect.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Carousel component indexing/trigger problem

[Andreas Linnarsson]

I don't know if you've seen my attached picture before but it shows the
signals during a complete turn of the turret (slightly more than a turn to
be honest). The TOOL CMD shows the period of when the 24V are applied to
the DC motor that drives the turret forward, about 3.3 seconds in time. The
total tool change time is about 4.9 seconds including locking. The STROBE
is the pocket sensor which sort of indicates the border between the
pockets. To shift to the next tool pocket it's therefore not sufficient to
back off when that signal is reached the first time. As can be seen from
the recording using the stock hardware one must continue past the first
trigger, continuing until the next one before backing off. I might switch
to better hardware eventually but spontaneously it feels like this can be
solved in software - hopefully. :-)

Regarding your tool changer I've understood that a ratcheting screwdriver
is a good solution for that. If it works it doesn't matter it if makes some
noise.

[image: Turn_50_Turrret.PNG]


Den fre 8 jan. 2021 kl 18:32 skrev Gene Heskett :

> On Friday 08 January 2021 11:06:00 Andreas Linnarsson wrote:
>
> > It will increase by "1" after every (unsuccessful) completion of a fwd
> > jog. After position 6 it will wrap around to 1, even though the index
> > position isn't sensed. I understand if index isn't used after homing
> > though.
> >
> > Do you know anyone who has used the carousel comp with this kind tool
> > turret? Or am I the first? If they've made it work I'm quite curious
> > about what their encoder wheel looked like or how they did it. I've
> > 3D-printed a variety of designs in search for a pattern that the
> > carousel comp would be compatible with but I cannot really get my head
> > around if another design would be the solution. I haven't found
> > anything that works so far and logically I can't see how it would work
> > to stop on the first pocket trigger. Not since that will always be the
> > same as the last one due to the reverse locking.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Andreas
>
> Can you describe your signal generation as it turns?
>
> It seems to me that your next pulse s/b derived not from the carousel
> position, but from the locking pawl as it falls off a tooth and it then
> backs up against the new tooth it just fell off of to initiate the lock.
>
> And that the falling pawl generates a pulse to initiate the reversal
> itself. So you get one and only one edge pulse as it falls. And one
> might detect the locked rotor amps of the motor being stopped by the
> pawl to both turn off the motor, and tell linuxcnc that a lock in the
> new position has been achieved.
>
> I would also if switching the motor with a relay, would use 2, wired so
> the when off, the motor armature is shorted, so the sequence would be,
> see the pawl fall, turn off the motor fwd relay so its back side
> contacts short the motor, stopping it fairly rapidly but gently, then
> enable the reverse relay maybe 100 milliseconds later. Lots easier on
> things too. Particularly the psu running the motor. There is also, for
> about 7 dollars US a BTS 7960 half bridge based board with 2 of those
> with a 27 volt rating that can switch 43 amps that does essentially the
> same thing as the relays and a bunch cheaper. I am controlling a 100
> watt 24 volt motor to drive a BS-1 indexing head from linuxcnc.  No
> heating even when my pid is miss set and its oscillating violently. I've
> a 450 watt 24 volt supply its crowbarred and turned off for a 3 minute
> cooldown, but no detectable heat from this board. Phenomenal little 2"
> square board for 7 bucks. Driving it both directions with a pwmgen in
> mode 2.
>
> But I don't have such a tool changer critter myself, so I'm just
> guessing. My holdup is figuring out how to bold the spindle and drop a
> ratcheting impact tool onto the drawbar and run it, its an R8 spindle.
> And the end wrench supplied does not exert enough force to adequately
> hold the tool. So the ratcheting screwdriver is needed.
>
> > Den fre 8 jan. 2021 kl 15:02 skrev andy pugh :
> > > On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 13:27, Andreas Linnarsson
> > >
> > >  wrote:
> > > > Did I miss(do) anything?
> > >
> > > I don't think so.
> > >
> > > Can you look at the current-position HAL pin to see if it decreases
> > > by 1 at the end of the reverse pulse?
> > >
> > > --
> > > atp
> > > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > > lunatics."
> > > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Emc-users mailing list
> > > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
>
> Cheers, Gene Heskett
> --
> "There are 

Re: [Emc-users] Carousel component indexing/trigger problem

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 17:34, Andreas Linnarsson
 wrote:

> Well, my M6 remap is an admittedly rudimentary "best shot" at it so the
> problem might in the code there. But unfortunately it doesn't work. It
> doesn't cast any errors but nothing happens when i run "M6 Tn". It "runs"
> for a while and then pauses.

That sounds like it thinks that it is already where it needs to be.
Does it do that even when the tool requested is a large number of
steps away?
I think that it needs investigation with Halmeter and/or Halscope
looking at the current-position and target-position.

> Does the Boxford use a gray encoding scheme or something similar?

No, it has the most rudimentary of target discs, 4 segments, 2 black,
2 silver, (As far as I remember)

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Carousel component indexing/trigger problem

[Andreas Linnarsson]

Well, my M6 remap is an admittedly rudimentary "best shot" at it so the
problem might in the code there. But unfortunately it doesn't work. It
doesn't cast any errors but nothing happens when i run "M6 Tn". It "runs"
for a while and then pauses.

Does the Boxford use a gray encoding scheme or something similar? I that
case I understand why it works. But I'm wondering if anyone has been
successful with the "Index" encoding in combination with a reverse lock.

Den fre 8 jan. 2021 kl 17:39 skrev andy pugh :

> On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 16:08, Andreas Linnarsson
>  wrote:
>
> > Do you know anyone who has used the carousel comp with this kind tool
> > turret? Or am I the first?
>
> You may be the first with an Emco. The addition of the reverse pulse
> etc was made at a LinuxCNC fest where I made it work with a Boxford.
>
> When I suggested adding the extra line I didn't look at the jog
> behaviour. Does the Tn command also not work still?
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


toolchange_index.hal
Description: Binary data


toolchange.ngc
Description: Binary data
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Carousel component indexing/trigger problem

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 08 January 2021 11:06:00 Andreas Linnarsson wrote:

> It will increase by "1" after every (unsuccessful) completion of a fwd
> jog. After position 6 it will wrap around to 1, even though the index
> position isn't sensed. I understand if index isn't used after homing
> though.
>
> Do you know anyone who has used the carousel comp with this kind tool
> turret? Or am I the first? If they've made it work I'm quite curious
> about what their encoder wheel looked like or how they did it. I've
> 3D-printed a variety of designs in search for a pattern that the
> carousel comp would be compatible with but I cannot really get my head
> around if another design would be the solution. I haven't found
> anything that works so far and logically I can't see how it would work
> to stop on the first pocket trigger. Not since that will always be the
> same as the last one due to the reverse locking.
>
> Regards,
>
> Andreas

Can you describe your signal generation as it turns?

It seems to me that your next pulse s/b derived not from the carousel 
position, but from the locking pawl as it falls off a tooth and it then 
backs up against the new tooth it just fell off of to initiate the lock. 

And that the falling pawl generates a pulse to initiate the reversal 
itself. So you get one and only one edge pulse as it falls. And one 
might detect the locked rotor amps of the motor being stopped by the 
pawl to both turn off the motor, and tell linuxcnc that a lock in the 
new position has been achieved.

I would also if switching the motor with a relay, would use 2, wired so 
the when off, the motor armature is shorted, so the sequence would be, 
see the pawl fall, turn off the motor fwd relay so its back side 
contacts short the motor, stopping it fairly rapidly but gently, then 
enable the reverse relay maybe 100 milliseconds later. Lots easier on 
things too. Particularly the psu running the motor. There is also, for 
about 7 dollars US a BTS 7960 half bridge based board with 2 of those 
with a 27 volt rating that can switch 43 amps that does essentially the 
same thing as the relays and a bunch cheaper. I am controlling a 100 
watt 24 volt motor to drive a BS-1 indexing head from linuxcnc.  No 
heating even when my pid is miss set and its oscillating violently. I've 
a 450 watt 24 volt supply its crowbarred and turned off for a 3 minute 
cooldown, but no detectable heat from this board. Phenomenal little 2" 
square board for 7 bucks. Driving it both directions with a pwmgen in 
mode 2.

But I don't have such a tool changer critter myself, so I'm just 
guessing. My holdup is figuring out how to bold the spindle and drop a 
ratcheting impact tool onto the drawbar and run it, its an R8 spindle. 
And the end wrench supplied does not exert enough force to adequately 
hold the tool. So the ratcheting screwdriver is needed.

> Den fre 8 jan. 2021 kl 15:02 skrev andy pugh :
> > On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 13:27, Andreas Linnarsson
> >
> >  wrote:
> > > Did I miss(do) anything?
> >
> > I don't think so.
> >
> > Can you look at the current-position HAL pin to see if it decreases
> > by 1 at the end of the reverse pulse?
> >
> > --
> > atp
> > "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> > designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> > lunatics."
> > — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Emc-users mailing list
> > Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users


Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Carousel component indexing/trigger problem

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 16:08, Andreas Linnarsson
 wrote:

> Do you know anyone who has used the carousel comp with this kind tool
> turret? Or am I the first?

You may be the first with an Emco. The addition of the reverse pulse
etc was made at a LinuxCNC fest where I made it work with a Boxford.

When I suggested adding the extra line I didn't look at the jog
behaviour. Does the Tn command also not work still?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Carousel component indexing/trigger problem

[Andreas Linnarsson]

It will increase by "1" after every (unsuccessful) completion of a fwd jog.
After position 6 it will wrap around to 1, even though the index position
isn't sensed. I understand if index isn't used after homing though.

Do you know anyone who has used the carousel comp with this kind tool
turret? Or am I the first? If they've made it work I'm quite curious about
what their encoder wheel looked like or how they did it. I've 3D-printed a
variety of designs in search for a pattern that the carousel comp would be
compatible with but I cannot really get my head around if another design
would be the solution. I haven't found anything that works so far and
logically I can't see how it would work to stop on the first pocket
trigger. Not since that will always be the same as the last one due to the
reverse locking.

Regards,

Andreas

Den fre 8 jan. 2021 kl 15:02 skrev andy pugh :

> On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 13:27, Andreas Linnarsson
>  wrote:
>
> > Did I miss(do) anything?
>
> I don't think so.
>
> Can you look at the current-position HAL pin to see if it decreases by
> 1 at the end of the reverse pulse?
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Carousel component indexing/trigger problem

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 13:27, Andreas Linnarsson
 wrote:

> Did I miss(do) anything?

I don't think so.

Can you look at the current-position HAL pin to see if it decreases by
1 at the end of the reverse pulse?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Carousel component indexing/trigger problem

[Andreas Linnarsson]

Even with the addition of that line the behaviour is the same. But since
I'm a novice when it comes to LinuxCNC I just want to make sure I
implemented the change correctly:

case 3:
timer -= fperiod;
if (timer > 0) break;
state = 4;
motor_fwd = 0;
motor_rev = 0;
motor_vel = hold_dc;
current_position -= 1;   //Line added
active = 0;
if (enable) ready = 1;

Then:
sudo halcompile --install carousel.comp

Did I miss(do) anything?



Den fre 8 jan. 2021 kl 13:44 skrev andy pugh :

> On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 12:31, Andreas Linnarsson
>  wrote:
>
> > The electrical behaviour of the stock control system can be seen in the
> > attached picture. When examining the STROBE (pocket) signal I can
> > understand why I'm experiencing what I do now. The TOOL CMD is the 24V
> > signal to the DC motor turning the turret and SYNC is the index/home
> signal.
>
> I think that a quick-fix in your case might be to insert:
>
> current_position -= 1
>
> After line 317 of carousel.comp
>
> https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/hal/components/carousel.comp#L311
>
> It would need to be a bit cleverer to be a _general_ solution.
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>

___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Carousel component indexing/trigger problem

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 12:31, Andreas Linnarsson
 wrote:

> The electrical behaviour of the stock control system can be seen in the
> attached picture. When examining the STROBE (pocket) signal I can
> understand why I'm experiencing what I do now. The TOOL CMD is the 24V
> signal to the DC motor turning the turret and SYNC is the index/home signal.

I think that a quick-fix in your case might be to insert:

current_position -= 1

After line 317 of carousel.comp
https://github.com/LinuxCNC/linuxcnc/blob/master/src/hal/components/carousel.comp#L311

It would need to be a bit cleverer to be a _general_ solution.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Carousel component indexing/trigger problem

[Andreas Linnarsson]

Hi,

I'm using "loadrt carousel pockets=6 encoding=index dir=1" and have mapped
the home/index signal to "carousel.0.sense-0" and pocket/strobe to
"carousel.0.sense-1".

During homing the turret behaves as expected since it ignores the strobe -
I suppose. After that it's stuck within the same pocket due to the
reversing motion, thus backing off the pocket sensor.

The electrical behaviour of the stock control system can be seen in the
attached picture. When examining the STROBE (pocket) signal I can
understand why I'm experiencing what I do now. The TOOL CMD is the 24V
signal to the DC motor turning the turret and SYNC is the index/home signal.

Regards,

Andreas

[image: Turn_50_Turrret.PNG]



Den fre 8 jan. 2021 kl 13:07 skrev andy pugh :

> On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 07:26, Andreas Linnarsson
>  wrote:
>
> > Is it possible to have the carousel component ignore the first pocket
> > sensor trigger in order to proceed to the next slot or, can i be run in
> > some kind of timer mode so this doesn't happen? Any inputs would be
> greatly
> > appreciated!
>
> Can you tell us your loadrt string for carousel? So that I can work
> out how the component is behaving in your case?
>
> --
> atp
> "A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
> designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
> lunatics."
> — George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912
>
>
> ___
> Emc-users mailing list
> Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
>


toolchange_index.hal
Description: Binary data
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Carousel component indexing/trigger problem

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 07:26, Andreas Linnarsson
 wrote:

> Is it possible to have the carousel component ignore the first pocket
> sensor trigger in order to proceed to the next slot or, can i be run in
> some kind of timer mode so this doesn't happen? Any inputs would be greatly
> appreciated!

Can you tell us your loadrt string for carousel? So that I can work
out how the component is behaving in your case?

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users

Re: [Emc-users] Great display of 28-axis machine control - totally OT

[Gregg Eshelman via Emc-users]

It's because of the Toshiba Kongsberg scandal. In the late 70's to early 80's 
there were violations of export controls on advanced machine tools and control 
electronics, such that the equipment ended up in the USSR via various pathways 
and less than a year after obtaining the machine tools, Soviet submarines were 
running quieter thanks to their newly acquired ability to manufacture better 
propellers with reduced cavitation. Getting that equipment also provided the 
Soviets with new designs to copy and expand on to enhance their own machine 
tools.


On Thursday, January 7, 2021, 9:35:34 AM MST, Ralph Stirling 
 wrote:  
 Our Mori NVX, which has five axis capability (but no
rotaries installed), requires a long passcode to be
entered after booting if the machine has been moved
or the memory backup batteries changed.  The passcode
is generated by Mori each time based on a random
number from the machine.  I got really tired of doing
this every year when changing the batteries, so wired
up a power supply diode-paralleled with the batteries,
and tell the control I've changed the batteries just before
the one year maintenance interval.  This is presumably
intended to prevent the machine from being surreptitiously
exported to North Korea.

One of several reasons I wish I could run the machine on LinuxCNC...  
___
Emc-users mailing list
Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users