Re: [Emc-users] Rpi4 -> 7i90

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 26 February 2021 16:37:02 Peter C. Wallace wrote:

> >The 7i90 is designed to be programmed from an epp parport, and I
> > don't believe it can be programmed again once an spi interface has
> > been put in it with out doing some jumper moving to reset it to
> > parport drive before it can be reprogrammed again.  Its explained in
> > the docs for it. It is also an unbuffered 3.3 volt device, and any
> > noise below ground or above 3.4 volts will destroy it, so make sure
> > you have enough 7i42TA's to buffer and protect it. A single bolt
> > star ground is very important around the 7i90. Each 7i42TA buffers 1
> > 50 pin, 24 i/o lines, so all 72 needs 3 of them and short 50 pin to
> > 50 pin ribbon jumpers. Substitute 7i33TA's for the 7i42TA's in your
> > case so you'll need two 7i33TA's and one 7i42TA for the gpio stuffs
> > since each 7i33TA only handles 4 servo's including their encoder
> > returns. The TA versions are worth their price in bottled beer
> > because of the built in  screw terminals.
> >
> >Cheers, Gene Heskett
>
> Thats not quite true, the 7I90 I/O pins will all take voltages from
> about -0.5V to +7V. That said, the I/O pins are bare IC pins and are
> easy to damage with negative inputs unless there is some current
> limiting. This is because all I/O pins have ESD protection diodes with
> anode to ground and cathode to the I/O pin. These diodes are tiny and
> can be damaged by current
>
> > 10 mA. How do you get a negative input? Its very easy, simply
> > connecting
>
> an I/O pin to frame ground will do it if there is any high frequency,
> high current device in the immediate area (Step drives, servo drives,
> VFDs etc) Also connecting any external device to the FPGA card when a
> common ground has not been established between the device and the FPGA
> card will do it as well. If you are using bare FPGA pins and you have
> noisy grounds you can protect the I/O pins by adding a series resistor
> (say 470 Ohms)

My initial wire-up didn't have a good star ground, Peter. I blew the 
first 2 7i90's quickly without the 7i42TA's. On hooking up my then best 
scope I was blown away by finding the noise levels I observed on a 
Hitachi v1065 scope, a 100 MHz dual trace. Up to 80 volts p-p with 
nearly 100 MHz rise and fall times.  But it was analog, and quite dim at 
that writing speed.  So I made myself a birthday present 5 years ago of 
a new digital sampler which was able to capture that stuff much 
brighter, with its 1GHz sampler head. I could actually see those diodes 
turning on. Very educational.  So with the passing of the woof, I have 
now obtained Siglent's best 10" 4 trace, with a 350 MHz bandwidth from a 
2GHZ sampler. A truly amazing piece of test gear. So are the 10x probes, 
rated at 350 MHz, yet they are nearly 6 feet long. Noise does not now 
stand a chance of being undetected. But with a common ground bolt, its 
under a half volt now.

> Peter Wallace
> Mesa Electronics
>
>
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Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Rpi4 -> 7i90

[Peter C. Wallace]

The 7i90 is designed to be programmed from an epp parport, and I don't 
believe it can be programmed again once an spi interface has been put in 
it with out doing some jumper moving to reset it to parport drive before 
it can be reprogrammed again.  Its explained in the docs for it. It is 
also an unbuffered 3.3 volt device, and any noise below ground or above 
3.4 volts will destroy it, so make sure you have enough 7i42TA's to 
buffer and protect it. A single bolt star ground is very important 
around the 7i90. Each 7i42TA buffers 1 50 pin, 24 i/o lines, so all 72 
needs 3 of them and short 50 pin to 50 pin ribbon jumpers. Substitute 
7i33TA's for the 7i42TA's in your case so you'll need two 7i33TA's and 
one 7i42TA for the gpio stuffs since each 7i33TA only handles 4 servo's 
including their encoder returns. The TA versions are worth their price 
in bottled beer because of the built in  screw terminals.


Cheers, Gene Heskett


Thats not quite true, the 7I90 I/O pins will all take voltages from about
-0.5V to +7V. That said, the I/O pins are bare IC pins and are easy to
damage with negative inputs unless there is some current limiting. This is 
because all I/O pins have ESD protection diodes with anode to ground and

cathode to the I/O pin. These diodes are tiny and can be damaged by current

10 mA. How do you get a negative input? Its very easy, simply connecting
an I/O pin to frame ground will do it if there is any high frequency, high 
current device in the immediate area (Step drives, servo drives, VFDs etc)

Also connecting any external device to the FPGA card when a common ground
has not been established between the device and the FPGA card will do
it as well. If you are using bare FPGA pins and you have noisy grounds
you can protect the I/O pins by adding a series resistor (say 470 Ohms)


Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics


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Re: [Emc-users] Rpi4 -> 7i90

[Ralph Stirling]

No, once you have an spi bitfile loaded you
can mesaflash over spi, without going back
to parallel port or jtag.  Your original mesaflash
line will work once you have an spi bitfile in
there.

-- Ralph

From: Gene Heskett [ghesk...@shentel.net]
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2021 12:30 PM
To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi4 -> 7i90

CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


On Friday 26 February 2021 14:09:57 dave engvall wrote:

> Hi all,
> I finally decided I needed to bite the bullet and see if I could get
> my Rpi4B-7i90 combo to work.
>
> So: mesaflash --device 7i90   -spi  --addr  /dev/spidev0.0 --write
> /bitfiles/7i90_spi_svst8_8im2.bit
>
> unable to set bpw32, fallback to bpw8
> unexpected cookie at 0100..0110:
>   
> No 7i90 board found.
>
> What am I missing? | what to I need to add/change?
>
> The combination I'm looking for is: 6 encoders, 6 pwm  and enough i/o
> to sense axis limits.
> follow on from 7i90 is one or two 7i33's
>
> Thanks.
>
> Dave
>
The 7i90 is designed to be programmed from an epp parport, and I don't
believe it can be programmed again once an spi interface has been put in
it with out doing some jumper moving to reset it to parport drive before
it can be reprogrammed again.  Its explained in the docs for it. It is
also an unbuffered 3.3 volt device, and any noise below ground or above
3.4 volts will destroy it, so make sure you have enough 7i42TA's to
buffer and protect it. A single bolt star ground is very important
around the 7i90. Each 7i42TA buffers 1 50 pin, 24 i/o lines, so all 72
needs 3 of them and short 50 pin to 50 pin ribbon jumpers. Substitute
7i33TA's for the 7i42TA's in your case so you'll need two 7i33TA's and
one 7i42TA for the gpio stuffs since each 7i33TA only handles 4 servo's
including their encoder returns. The TA versions are worth their price
in bottled beer because of the built in  screw terminals.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 



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Re: [Emc-users] (off topic) nema17 angle gearbox

[R C]

On 2/26/21 12:19 PM, andy pugh wrote:

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 at 18:49, R C  wrote:


this is off topic,  but was wondering if anyone knows of any 90 degree
angle nema17 gearboxes (preferably 1:1)

To be unhellpful: I don't know of any but most of the NEMA17 that I
see are shorter than they are wide, so I am not sure what the
application would be?


I was thinking about mounting a nema17 motor at a 90 degree angle on an 
acis.  The ones I have are actually longer,  plus taking the 
motormounts, coupler and wheels into considering that could save me 
quite a bit of space.  I know about the backlash,  that would never be 0,





There would generally be backlash introduced, too.




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Re: [Emc-users] Rpi4 -> 7i90

[Gene Heskett]

On Friday 26 February 2021 14:09:57 dave engvall wrote:

> Hi all,
> I finally decided I needed to bite the bullet and see if I could get
> my Rpi4B-7i90 combo to work.
>
> So: mesaflash --device 7i90   -spi  --addr  /dev/spidev0.0 --write
> /bitfiles/7i90_spi_svst8_8im2.bit
>
> unable to set bpw32, fallback to bpw8
> unexpected cookie at 0100..0110:
>   
> No 7i90 board found.
>
> What am I missing? | what to I need to add/change?
>
> The combination I'm looking for is: 6 encoders, 6 pwm  and enough i/o
> to sense axis limits.
> follow on from 7i90 is one or two 7i33's
>
> Thanks.
>
> Dave
>
The 7i90 is designed to be programmed from an epp parport, and I don't 
believe it can be programmed again once an spi interface has been put in 
it with out doing some jumper moving to reset it to parport drive before 
it can be reprogrammed again.  Its explained in the docs for it. It is 
also an unbuffered 3.3 volt device, and any noise below ground or above 
3.4 volts will destroy it, so make sure you have enough 7i42TA's to 
buffer and protect it. A single bolt star ground is very important 
around the 7i90. Each 7i42TA buffers 1 50 pin, 24 i/o lines, so all 72 
needs 3 of them and short 50 pin to 50 pin ribbon jumpers. Substitute 
7i33TA's for the 7i42TA's in your case so you'll need two 7i33TA's and 
one 7i42TA for the gpio stuffs since each 7i33TA only handles 4 servo's 
including their encoder returns. The TA versions are worth their price 
in bottled beer because of the built in  screw terminals.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 


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Re: [Emc-users] Rpi4 -> 7i90

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 19:26:58 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)" 
Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Rpi4 -> 7i90

You have to get an spi bitfile loaded before you can use spi.  I rigged up jtag 
with openocd on my Rpi3b+ to bootstrap the 7i90.

-- Ralph


You can use EPP also since the defualt 7I90 firmware is EPP
(assuming you have a PC with a EPP parallel port +mesaflash)




On Feb 26, 2021 11:10 AM, dave engvall  wrote:
CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


Hi all,
I finally decided I needed to bite the bullet and see if I could get my
Rpi4B-7i90 combo to work.

So: mesaflash --device 7i90   -spi  --addr  /dev/spidev0.0 --write
/bitfiles/7i90_spi_svst8_8im2.bit

unable to set bpw32, fallback to bpw8
unexpected cookie at 0100..0110:
  
No 7i90 board found.

What am I missing? | what to I need to add/change?

The combination I'm looking for is: 6 encoders, 6 pwm  and enough i/o to
sense axis limits.
follow on from 7i90 is one or two 7i33's

Thanks.

Dave




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Re: [Emc-users] (off topic) nema17 angle gearbox

[Nicklas SB Karlsson]

Den 2021-02-26 kl. 19:46, skrev R C:

Hello,


this is off topic,  but was wondering if anyone knows of any 90 degree 
angle nema17 gearboxes (preferably 1:1)



You rally need a 1:1  gearbox?



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Re: [Emc-users] Rpi4 -> 7i90

[Ralph Stirling]

You have to get an spi bitfile loaded before you can use spi.  I rigged up jtag 
with openocd on my Rpi3b+ to bootstrap the 7i90.

-- Ralph

On Feb 26, 2021 11:10 AM, dave engvall  wrote:
CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


Hi all,
I finally decided I needed to bite the bullet and see if I could get my
Rpi4B-7i90 combo to work.

So: mesaflash --device 7i90   -spi  --addr  /dev/spidev0.0 --write
/bitfiles/7i90_spi_svst8_8im2.bit

unable to set bpw32, fallback to bpw8
unexpected cookie at 0100..0110:
  
No 7i90 board found.

What am I missing? | what to I need to add/change?

The combination I'm looking for is: 6 encoders, 6 pwm  and enough i/o to
sense axis limits.
follow on from 7i90 is one or two 7i33's

Thanks.

Dave




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Re: [Emc-users] rt data logging

[Ralph Stirling]

Halsampler appears to be exactly what I want!  Don't know why I couldn't find 
it.

Thanks again.
-- Ralph

On Feb 26, 2021 11:08 AM, "Peter C. Wallace"  wrote:
CAUTION: This email originated from outside the Walla Walla University email 
system.


On Fri, 26 Feb 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:

> Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 18:48:37 +
> From: Ralph Stirling 
> Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"
> 
> To: "emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net" 
> Subject: [Emc-users] rt data logging
>
> I would like to do some realtime data logging
> from hal to disk at servo thread rates.  It seems
> like it shouldn't be terribly hard to make something
> out of scope_rt.c, but I would hate to reinvent any
> wheels.  Halscope as such captures too short an
> interval.  I'd like to write out the captured data in
> blocks, but not lose data between blocks.

Isnt this what hal-sampler does?


>
> Anybody done something like this?
>
> Thanks,
> -- Ralph
>
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>

Peter Wallace
Mesa Electronics

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Re: [Emc-users] (off topic) nema17 angle gearbox

[andy pugh]

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021 at 18:49, R C  wrote:

> this is off topic,  but was wondering if anyone knows of any 90 degree
> angle nema17 gearboxes (preferably 1:1)

To be unhellpful: I don't know of any but most of the NEMA17 that I
see are shorter than they are wide, so I am not sure what the
application would be?

There would generally be backlash introduced, too.

-- 
atp
"A motorcycle is a bicycle with a pandemonium attachment and is
designed for the especial use of mechanical geniuses, daredevils and
lunatics."
— George Fitch, Atlanta Constitution Newspaper, 1912


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[Emc-users] Rpi4 -> 7i90

[dave engvall]

Hi all,
I finally decided I needed to bite the bullet and see if I could get my 
Rpi4B-7i90 combo to work.


So: mesaflash --device 7i90   -spi  --addr  /dev/spidev0.0 --write 
/bitfiles/7i90_spi_svst8_8im2.bit


unable to set bpw32, fallback to bpw8
unexpected cookie at 0100..0110:
  
No 7i90 board found.

What am I missing? | what to I need to add/change?

The combination I'm looking for is: 6 encoders, 6 pwm  and enough i/o to 
sense axis limits.

follow on from 7i90 is one or two 7i33's

Thanks.

Dave




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Re: [Emc-users] rt data logging

[Peter C. Wallace]

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021, Ralph Stirling wrote:


Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 18:48:37 +
From: Ralph Stirling 
Reply-To: "Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)"

To: "emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net" 
Subject: [Emc-users] rt data logging

I would like to do some realtime data logging
from hal to disk at servo thread rates.  It seems
like it shouldn't be terribly hard to make something
out of scope_rt.c, but I would hate to reinvent any
wheels.  Halscope as such captures too short an
interval.  I'd like to write out the captured data in
blocks, but not lose data between blocks.


Isnt this what hal-sampler does?




Anybody done something like this?

Thanks,
-- Ralph

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Mesa Electronics

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[Emc-users] rt data logging

[Ralph Stirling]

I would like to do some realtime data logging
from hal to disk at servo thread rates.  It seems
like it shouldn't be terribly hard to make something
out of scope_rt.c, but I would hate to reinvent any
wheels.  Halscope as such captures too short an
interval.  I'd like to write out the captured data in
blocks, but not lose data between blocks.

Anybody done something like this?

Thanks,
-- Ralph

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[Emc-users] (off topic) nema17 angle gearbox

[R C]

Hello,


this is off topic,  but was wondering if anyone knows of any 90 degree 
angle nema17 gearboxes (preferably 1:1)


that take a 1/4" input shaft, and of course a nema17 stepper motor


thanks,


Ron





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