[Emc-users] Update, Re: Spindle experiences/recommendations
thank you all for responding to my search for information and sharing your suggestions and experiences with the Chinese ebay spindles. I bought one of the liquid cooled, 2.2kw models with Huan Yang vfd, with integral ER20 spindle. We were able to bench test it yesterday and I am pleased to report that it looks like it will meet our needs to turn a diamond dressing roller. These spindles all look the same on ebay but this one had listed specification of 0-24,000 RPM and 0-400Hz where others were advertising 8,000 or more -24,000 RPM. We were looking for a lower range. The spindle does seem to work well at all speeds. I am sure that torque and horsepower are lower at reduced rpm but seems like they will be more than adequate for our needs. The only reason we chose the 2.2kw model is that it was the smallest that had an ER20 spindle, in which we will mount a 1/2" collet to grip the shank of a precision slitting saw holder. How soon we put it to use now depends on the sourcing and delivery of our diamond dressing roll and a good opportunity to make the mount and install, but at this point it looks like we do indeed have a capable and readily replaceable solution at a low cost. We could replace this motor yearly for a long time, for the cost of the other solution. Thanks again - Andy Evans (Oregon, USA) ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Spindle experiences/recommendations?
(andy pugh): /... 3,000 to 10,000 seems to be a somewhat awkward range, being rather faster than a standard induction motor and rather slower than the generic high speed spindles. /Yes, it is an awkward range. As we are tying to correlate SFM to the grinding wheel SFM, a potential way to deal with this is to go with a bigger diamond dressing wheel on a slower spindle, or a smaller one on a faster one. / If you look at the ER32 eBay spindles those seem to top-put at 18K. The listings generally say "0 to 18,000" but I suspect that isn't quite true. /Exactly what I hope to find out here.../I have used my 24k spindle at 6k. That leads me to think that an 18k one might be OK at 4K. Is your application high or low torque? Maybe the answer is a standard induction motor and belt drive? /Great information, and I do not think our torque demands are going to be high as we are planning to continue to use a narrow rim of diamonds, albeit at larger diameter. I have a couple other belt driven stations in this workcell, and I was kinda hoping to stay compact and direct with this one given space constraints. Thank you! /Danny Miller: / /Have used a cheap Chinese air cooled 18krpm 3kw spindle for years.? You must drive them off a VFD anyways. / ~$350 vs $12K means that we could burn a few to find out, and makes sense at this point to try it for ourselves./At 3000 rpm you have much less power.? Well the torque is probably the same but power=torque * rpm. The air cooled is cooled by a shaft-driven impeller, so fan rpm drops to 3000 rpm too.? At high torque, low-rpm loads, it will still generate a lot of heat but get very little fan cooling.? You can swap with a DC computer fan or go with water cooled. /Apparently there are different schemes for the air cooling, and they seem to add size. We can do liquid and use filtered coolant. Also, the duty cycle is rather low, currently about 40 seconds every 15 minutes. Thank you! // Andy// -- Andy Evans Evans Precision Tooling Incorporated 541.990.2122 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Spindle experiences/recommendations?
Greetings everyone, I wish to upgrade a dressing spindle in our EMC grinder. We currently have a very small DC motor turning a one-inch diamond-studded disc at about 1500 RPM, with fairly decent results, but my research indicates we may be better served with a much larger disc and higher RPM. We drive this dresser under the wheel with a contoured path to give us the form we desire. There are available dresser spindles in the neighborhood of $12K that are very good looking but we wonder if we can build something that is sufficient for our needs for far less. We are considering the common router/milling machine spindles on ebay, air or water cooled, in the 1-2 KW range. Most of these seem to be equipped with either an ER11 or ER20 spindle, and most are advertised as 18,000 or 24,000 RPM. Some of them tout multiple bearings. Some claim a range of 8,000 to 24,000 RPM. Since I would expect many on this list to have experience with these, I am seeking to find out if we can successfully utilize a 3,000 to 10,000 RPM range, and also if the ER mounts are integral or if they can be removed. Or, if there are better ideas for accomplishing this, or if we are crazy not to purchase the $12K solution. Thank you! Andy Evans Evans Precision Tooling Incorporated 541.990.2122 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Project, anyone?
https://portland.craigslist.org/grg/tls/d/huge-shoda-cnc-router-funac/6310723057.html -- Andy Evans Evans Precision Tooling Incorporated 541.990.2122 -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Suggestions wanted - how to control robot
More good considerations Chris, John, Dave, Gregg, and all! I do see the possibility of tilting the mount base to match the tilt and skew of our part fixture, thereby reducing the number of needed degrees of freedom for the robot. We also considered that we have X, Y, and rotary A movement of the machine to assist in positioning as well, although I can see that complicating things as it would multiply the hand-offs between controllers. We should be able to mount the magazine carousel wherever, but desire easy access. The weight of our parts are quite light - maximum less than one ounce. We have a fair amount of room within the enclosure of the machine, and should be able to fit this stuff fairly close to where the machine fixture parks. If it were light and rugged enough, it could ride on the table. To Dave's suggestions about utilizing pneumatics - I'm sure that could be done; stops controlling the travels. Would it really be easier, or is the way to make it simple just to have a 6 axis robot to handle any need? I am going to see what cad modeling can tell us about keeping it simple. If that leads us to a low enough cost it could rationalize getting it done sooner. I'll also consider the idea of bringing in sales/consultation, as it could be considerably less time, trouble and cost compared to hard-knocking it. Thanks again! Andy Evans Evans Precision Tooling Incorporated -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Suggestions wanted - how to control robot
OK, I'm 99% confident it could be as simple as: Grip/release part Two positions wrist rotation, 0 and 180 degrees Move in and out Move up and down Swivel base (probably 90 degrees) Also with reference to mimicking the old tech, maybe: Grip/release part Pivot to fixture and back Move up and down 1/4" or so to load/unload nest - perhaps same motion with longer travel could also index the magazine carousel. Two positions wrist rotation, 0 and 180 degrees Or to AP's idea, some sort of "push through" from the carousel: Extend/retract arm (through the carousel) Raise and lower arm to load/unload part fixture nest Rotate the arm to index part Still probably need grip/release Hmm. More to chew on! Much appreciated! Andy Evans Evans Precision Tooling Incorporated -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Suggestions wanted - how to control robot
Folks, I really appreciate the replies I've gotten here. You've helped me gain a much better picture of what will be involved. Our forecasts and budget analysis leads me to believe that we could seriously use this robot within the next year, based on what it will take to put into place. To state what we will want this robot to do: Grip a part from a magazine (Think 35mm slide carousel) load into fixture, get out of the way (Machine tool runs) pick part from fixture index part 180 degrees (wrist rotate) put part back into fixture, get out of the way (Machine tool runs) pick part from fixture reload into magazine perform move that manually indexes magazine repeat The environment is moist but do not anticipate that this unit would get wet. We would have it within the machine cabinet. We are thinking that we need a small industrial robot (Mitsubishi, Fanuc) with .002" or so accuracy. The fixture will do some self-aligning of the part as it is clamped. Does anyone have any recommendations and sources for a suitable robot? Thanks again! Andy ------ Andy Evans Evans Precision Tooling Incorporated -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Suggestions wanted - how to control robot
Greetings Folks, We have a surface grinder that is fitted with L-CNC and used as a creep-feed machine. We are using steppers with encoders on XYZ and rotary A. It works awesome and we are very pleased with the performance but will likely be putting servos on a second machine that we are beginning to build in an attempt to make it even better, but that is for another day. What I seek advice on, is adding a robot to load/unload work pieces in our existing machine. Specifically, can we or should we try to run an additional four or five axes from our existing controller? Pros and cons of having a second instance of L-CNC running the robot, and how to have one controller or the other slave? Can anyone point to examples of these or possibly other ideas? Thanks! Andy Evans Evans Precision Tooling Incorporated Oregon USA -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Leadshine closed loop steppers
Greg, We have these motors/drives in a 4-axis CNC grinder that works exceptionally well for us. They have been very trouble free since the time we plumbed low pressure air into the motors in order to prevent moisture build-up in their wet environment. In service for over 3 years now. We are about to build another machine and we are considering servos but it will be hard to ignore the success we've had with these, plus it will be convenient for back-up spares to have both machines run the same components. Linux CNC has been awesome as well. To see what we grind on them, check out www.kudupoint.com Andy Evans Evans Precision Tooling Incorporated -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, SlashDot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] using tool table offsets with G41 or 42
Gene, have you ever looked into http://www.harveytool.com/ My go-to for those types of cutters. Also, have you considered contouring your outside radius with a ball cutter and small stepovers? Andy Evans Evans Precision Tooling Incorporated On 10/18/2015 1:06 AM, emc-users-requ...@lists.sourceforge.net wrote: > And it turns out when googling, that part number is a 1/16" radius bit, > no damned wonder its not doing the job! Amazon miss-described it. > Thats twice they've bit my ass in the last month. > > And the only hit I can get on a 1/8" radius pointed round over is at > Carbide Processors, at $108 a copy that is un-obtainium personified! > > Does anyone else have better google foo than that? > > I have some diamond burrs for a dremel. I might be able to make these 3 > $13 versions into a more pleasing profile on the toy mill. -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Re-purpose or move along?
I am looking for either some cool ideas or someone who would like to take a project of my (too full) hands. I just sold off my manual sinker EDM and acquired a CNC sinker. Along with the deal came an identical parts machine. The folks told me that it was functional when they took it out of service, but over the years they have swapped out boards and other parts with the twin that they were still using. It is a mid-to-late 90's Charmilles Roboform 20. It does not have C axis or an electrode changer. A picture of this machine can be had by googling images for the model. I think my first choice would be to deal the machine to someone who would want to repurpose it and allow me to keep spares. I would like to keep boards, monitor, keyboard and touchpads, probably even the axis motors. I can probably do without the ballscrews, so if someone were looking for an XYZ platform it seems like it would be an opportunity. For this scenario I would let it go for very little, as it is currently residing under a tarp and partial overhang, blocking one garage door. (Assembled it is too tall to get inside.) It could be brought back to life as its original EDM, but I can't guarantee all of the parts are fully functional or even there. I imagine some of the boards were swapped and the faulty ones not fixed. It would likely get expensive. For those of you who may not know about EDMs, their travel resolutions are quite accurate, but they will not be built as heavily as a milling machine because they typically move slow and do not encounter cutting loads or resistance. With my overwhelmingly positive experience with my Linux CNC 4-axis creep-feed grinder, I am tempted to repurpose this myself. I would probably do this if I could visualize myself completing it into a laser engraver. Other ideas include perhaps a CMM or Laser Scanner. It would probably make a great 3D printer, or light milling/ engraving machine. I am hurting for space and I am not sure my enthusiasm or need for any of these is sufficient. Do any of you have any ideas to fire up my enthusiasm, or any interest in acquiring the machine? I live in Oregon. The unit is on a pallet and weighs around 2000 lb. I move things like this by renting a drop-bed trailer and rolling it on and off with a pallet jack. -- Andy Evans Evans Precision Tooling Incorporated 541.990.2122 -- Dive into the World of Parallel Programming The Go Parallel Website, sponsored by Intel and developed in partnership with Slashdot Media, is your hub for all things parallel software development, from weekly thought leadership blogs to news, videos, case studies, tutorials and more. Take a look and join the conversation now. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
