Re: [Emc-users] Button paint and engraving
Thanks for those ideas. I really would like black buttons with white lettering, but the only way to get translucent buttons is in white. I guess I could consider reversing it, and infilling the engraving. My initial experiments didn't work well doing infilling, so I did one using a black auto primer and engraved the button, which worked well. Really the right way to do this would be to get a silicon keypad made, but for a one off project that is unworkable. On Fri, Dec 7, 2012 at 11:20 PM, dave dengv...@charter.net wrote: On Fri, 2012-12-07 at 22:44 -0500, Bruce Layne wrote: I reverse laser engrave legend plates, device labels, operator panels and sometimes prototype membrane switches. I've also done front surface engraving. I assume that's what you're doing on these switches. The big problem with that is that fingers activating the switches will erode the paint from a front engraving. If you're stuck with front surface engraving, then I'd engrave deeply and use a lot of paint, or several layers of paint and several layers of clear coat on top. Another trick that can work well is to use a liquid paint instead of a rattle can of spray paint, fill the deeply engraved letters with it rather than using several coats of spray paint, and use a solvent to remove the excess paint from the top surface of the key cap. Make sure the solvent is compatible with the key cap plastic. Or, let the paint dry thoroughly and mechanically remove it from the top of the key cap so it only remains in the engraved letters. Fine sandpaper or ScotchBrite works well for this. If you want a glossy surface instead of the brushed finish you'd get with unidirectional sanding or the matte finish you'd get from random sanding, you can finish with 600 grit paper and then Micromesh or Abralon (1200-1500 grit foam backed ultra-fine sandpaper). I have an EFD-1500 electronic fluid dispenser that I've used with a very fine gauge needle on the syringe to dispense paint into engraving. It helps to use a lighted magnifier, have a steady rest for your hand, and go easy on the caffeine for this delicate operation, but the paint wicks well and fills the engraved letters with no mess on the unengraved top. Model paint from a hobby shop might work well for this. Fingernail polish might work too. For engraving jobs with large and simple fonts, there are paint sticks that look somewhat like felt tip markers. They dispense paint instead of ink, so they fill the engraving well and the paint is fairly opaque. You might have some luck putting tape over the top surface, engraving it, spray painting it, allow the paint to dry and then remove the tape which served as a spray shield. This would probably work a lot better for laser engraving rather than rotary engraving with a small cutting bit. There is typically better coverage with a good brand of paint like the Krylon that you're using because there is apparently more pigment in the paint, and the solvent in the better brands of paint seems less likely to orange peel when applied to plastic than the 99 cent el-cheapo paint. I used some black spray paint recently from a major manufacturer, probably purchased at Lowe's, that advertised twice the coverage. It was marketed as something like ultra coverage or ultra coat. That might help your translucency problem. I hope you bought extra buttons for a little trial and error. This one-off prototype stuff usually involves some waste. I recently got in a hurry and accidentally had the laser cut about half an inch off the edge of the $32 ultra scratch resistant polycarbonate sheet that I was reverse engraving for the top of the tool rack for my soon-to-be-CNC milling machine. Then I decided to try to front surface engrave the HDPE substrate even though I knew that was unlikely. Sure enough, the material didn't engrave well and required five passes to get the engraving depth I wanted. Then the paint wouldn't stick to the waxy surface, chipped and flaked out, and looked awful. I bought another $32 sheet of polycarbonate and laser engraved it the night before last, painted it yesterday, and I'm going to epoxy it to the HDPE substrate. Hopefully the two square feet of surface area will provide a strong enough epoxy bond, even on the HDPE. If not, I'll use countersunk flat head screws... or I'll use PVC for the 3/4 thick substrate. I'll test the bond strength with the botched piece of polycarbonate and a scrap of HDPE first. I don't want to buy a third sheet of $32 plastic! Oh, the joys of prototypes and one-off custom work. Good luck! Just a random thought ... front engrave decently deep and then fill with colored epoxy and polish flush. This implies that you have clear buttons tho. May the force be with you. Dave On 12/07/2012 08:25 PM, Erik Friesen wrote: I painted some of these
Re: [Emc-users] Button paint and engraving
On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net wrote: Thanks for those ideas. I really would like black buttons with white lettering, but the only way to get translucent buttons is in white. I guess I could consider reversing it, and infilling the engraving. My initial experiments didn't work well doing infilling, so I did one using a black auto primer and engraved the button, which worked well. Really the right way to do this would be to get a silicon keypad made, but for a one off project that is unworkable. Erik, Is there any way you can get already coated black buttons that are translucent underneath the finish and then engrave them? Would save the step of trying to paint them and the finish that comes on them would probably be more durable. Mark -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Button paint and engraving
I doubt it. Some companies won't talk to you unless you are willing to spend $50k, the next may want $1k, its a gamble. They do put an stl of the button on their website, I guess if I had a two color 3d printer I could do it that way? On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 8:36 AM, Mark Wendt wendt.m...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 8:31 AM, Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net wrote: Thanks for those ideas. I really would like black buttons with white lettering, but the only way to get translucent buttons is in white. I guess I could consider reversing it, and infilling the engraving. My initial experiments didn't work well doing infilling, so I did one using a black auto primer and engraved the button, which worked well. Really the right way to do this would be to get a silicon keypad made, but for a one off project that is unworkable. Erik, Is there any way you can get already coated black buttons that are translucent underneath the finish and then engrave them? Would save the step of trying to paint them and the finish that comes on them would probably be more durable. Mark -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Button paint and engraving
On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 8:48 AM, Erik Friesen e...@aercon.net wrote: I doubt it. Some companies won't talk to you unless you are willing to spend $50k, the next may want $1k, its a gamble. They do put an stl of the button on their website, I guess if I had a two color 3d printer I could do it that way? Ah, ok, so all the buttons out there are black all the way through? Wasn't sure if they made buttons like that or not, but it would be handy if they did, eh? Mark -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Button paint and engraving
On 12/08/2012 08:31 AM, Erik Friesen wrote: Really the right way to do this would be to get a silicon keypad made, but for a one off project that is unworkable. It sounds like you've already gone through a lot of trouble on this, which is typical for a one off project. For all of your effort, you may be able to make a silicone rubber keypad overlay. Have you seen the Jog It! control pendant on KickStarter? It has a prototype silicone keypad. Apparently his handmade prototype yellowed a bit after a year, but it's still very workable. Or, you could keep the mold and cast another silicone overlay if the yellowing bothered you. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1651082654/jog-it-open-source-controller-pendant-for-emc2-and Jerome seems like an approachable hacker who would probably get you pointed in the right direction on casting silicone rubber. Google also seems to know a lot about this topic. You could probably find a material that didn't yellow. https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+cast+silicone+rubber -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Button paint and engraving
Bruce Layne wrote: If you're stuck with front surface engraving, then I'd engrave deeply and use a lot of paint, or several layers of paint and several layers of clear coat on top. Another trick that can work well is to use a liquid paint instead of a rattle can of spray paint, fill the deeply engraved letters with it rather than using several coats of spray paint, and use a solvent to remove the excess paint from the top surface of the key cap. I did this once to repair a button. i filled the letters all the way, and then sanded the excess paint off. it worked very well. Jon -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Button paint and engraving
I don't see an easy way to make multicolored silicon rubber buttons, though. I shouldn't even open my mind to doing silicon, its one of those things that is tempting though. I guess I could try making my own buttons with translucent black acrylic. I am stuck using something that will fit on top of the matching switch. - http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/4FTH982/679-2255-ND/2034811 , as I am $850 into 1 4-layer, and 2 2 layer boards, already. On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 3:32 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: Bruce Layne wrote: If you're stuck with front surface engraving, then I'd engrave deeply and use a lot of paint, or several layers of paint and several layers of clear coat on top. Another trick that can work well is to use a liquid paint instead of a rattle can of spray paint, fill the deeply engraved letters with it rather than using several coats of spray paint, and use a solvent to remove the excess paint from the top surface of the key cap. I did this once to repair a button. i filled the letters all the way, and then sanded the excess paint off. it worked very well. Jon -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Button paint and engraving
I painted some of these http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/1WD16/679-2144-ND/2034700 buttons today, and engraved them, but find that the paint is not curing like I would like (not very durable), and the paint is soft enough that they did not engrave very nice. Not only that, these are backlit buttons, and the paint I used(flat black krylon from wal-mart) is a little translucent. Any suggestions about a better type of paint? -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Button paint and engraving
I reverse laser engrave legend plates, device labels, operator panels and sometimes prototype membrane switches. I've also done front surface engraving. I assume that's what you're doing on these switches. The big problem with that is that fingers activating the switches will erode the paint from a front engraving. If you're stuck with front surface engraving, then I'd engrave deeply and use a lot of paint, or several layers of paint and several layers of clear coat on top. Another trick that can work well is to use a liquid paint instead of a rattle can of spray paint, fill the deeply engraved letters with it rather than using several coats of spray paint, and use a solvent to remove the excess paint from the top surface of the key cap. Make sure the solvent is compatible with the key cap plastic. Or, let the paint dry thoroughly and mechanically remove it from the top of the key cap so it only remains in the engraved letters. Fine sandpaper or ScotchBrite works well for this. If you want a glossy surface instead of the brushed finish you'd get with unidirectional sanding or the matte finish you'd get from random sanding, you can finish with 600 grit paper and then Micromesh or Abralon (1200-1500 grit foam backed ultra-fine sandpaper). I have an EFD-1500 electronic fluid dispenser that I've used with a very fine gauge needle on the syringe to dispense paint into engraving. It helps to use a lighted magnifier, have a steady rest for your hand, and go easy on the caffeine for this delicate operation, but the paint wicks well and fills the engraved letters with no mess on the unengraved top. Model paint from a hobby shop might work well for this. Fingernail polish might work too. For engraving jobs with large and simple fonts, there are paint sticks that look somewhat like felt tip markers. They dispense paint instead of ink, so they fill the engraving well and the paint is fairly opaque. You might have some luck putting tape over the top surface, engraving it, spray painting it, allow the paint to dry and then remove the tape which served as a spray shield. This would probably work a lot better for laser engraving rather than rotary engraving with a small cutting bit. There is typically better coverage with a good brand of paint like the Krylon that you're using because there is apparently more pigment in the paint, and the solvent in the better brands of paint seems less likely to orange peel when applied to plastic than the 99 cent el-cheapo paint. I used some black spray paint recently from a major manufacturer, probably purchased at Lowe's, that advertised twice the coverage. It was marketed as something like ultra coverage or ultra coat. That might help your translucency problem. I hope you bought extra buttons for a little trial and error. This one-off prototype stuff usually involves some waste. I recently got in a hurry and accidentally had the laser cut about half an inch off the edge of the $32 ultra scratch resistant polycarbonate sheet that I was reverse engraving for the top of the tool rack for my soon-to-be-CNC milling machine. Then I decided to try to front surface engrave the HDPE substrate even though I knew that was unlikely. Sure enough, the material didn't engrave well and required five passes to get the engraving depth I wanted. Then the paint wouldn't stick to the waxy surface, chipped and flaked out, and looked awful. I bought another $32 sheet of polycarbonate and laser engraved it the night before last, painted it yesterday, and I'm going to epoxy it to the HDPE substrate. Hopefully the two square feet of surface area will provide a strong enough epoxy bond, even on the HDPE. If not, I'll use countersunk flat head screws... or I'll use PVC for the 3/4 thick substrate. I'll test the bond strength with the botched piece of polycarbonate and a scrap of HDPE first. I don't want to buy a third sheet of $32 plastic! Oh, the joys of prototypes and one-off custom work. Good luck! On 12/07/2012 08:25 PM, Erik Friesen wrote: I painted some of these http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/1WD16/679-2144-ND/2034700 buttons today, and engraved them, but find that the paint is not curing like I would like (not very durable), and the paint is soft enough that they did not engrave very nice. Not only that, these are backlit buttons, and the paint I used(flat black krylon from wal-mart) is a little translucent. Any suggestions about a better type of paint? -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Emc-users mailing
Re: [Emc-users] Button paint and engraving
On Fri, 2012-12-07 at 22:44 -0500, Bruce Layne wrote: I reverse laser engrave legend plates, device labels, operator panels and sometimes prototype membrane switches. I've also done front surface engraving. I assume that's what you're doing on these switches. The big problem with that is that fingers activating the switches will erode the paint from a front engraving. If you're stuck with front surface engraving, then I'd engrave deeply and use a lot of paint, or several layers of paint and several layers of clear coat on top. Another trick that can work well is to use a liquid paint instead of a rattle can of spray paint, fill the deeply engraved letters with it rather than using several coats of spray paint, and use a solvent to remove the excess paint from the top surface of the key cap. Make sure the solvent is compatible with the key cap plastic. Or, let the paint dry thoroughly and mechanically remove it from the top of the key cap so it only remains in the engraved letters. Fine sandpaper or ScotchBrite works well for this. If you want a glossy surface instead of the brushed finish you'd get with unidirectional sanding or the matte finish you'd get from random sanding, you can finish with 600 grit paper and then Micromesh or Abralon (1200-1500 grit foam backed ultra-fine sandpaper). I have an EFD-1500 electronic fluid dispenser that I've used with a very fine gauge needle on the syringe to dispense paint into engraving. It helps to use a lighted magnifier, have a steady rest for your hand, and go easy on the caffeine for this delicate operation, but the paint wicks well and fills the engraved letters with no mess on the unengraved top. Model paint from a hobby shop might work well for this. Fingernail polish might work too. For engraving jobs with large and simple fonts, there are paint sticks that look somewhat like felt tip markers. They dispense paint instead of ink, so they fill the engraving well and the paint is fairly opaque. You might have some luck putting tape over the top surface, engraving it, spray painting it, allow the paint to dry and then remove the tape which served as a spray shield. This would probably work a lot better for laser engraving rather than rotary engraving with a small cutting bit. There is typically better coverage with a good brand of paint like the Krylon that you're using because there is apparently more pigment in the paint, and the solvent in the better brands of paint seems less likely to orange peel when applied to plastic than the 99 cent el-cheapo paint. I used some black spray paint recently from a major manufacturer, probably purchased at Lowe's, that advertised twice the coverage. It was marketed as something like ultra coverage or ultra coat. That might help your translucency problem. I hope you bought extra buttons for a little trial and error. This one-off prototype stuff usually involves some waste. I recently got in a hurry and accidentally had the laser cut about half an inch off the edge of the $32 ultra scratch resistant polycarbonate sheet that I was reverse engraving for the top of the tool rack for my soon-to-be-CNC milling machine. Then I decided to try to front surface engrave the HDPE substrate even though I knew that was unlikely. Sure enough, the material didn't engrave well and required five passes to get the engraving depth I wanted. Then the paint wouldn't stick to the waxy surface, chipped and flaked out, and looked awful. I bought another $32 sheet of polycarbonate and laser engraved it the night before last, painted it yesterday, and I'm going to epoxy it to the HDPE substrate. Hopefully the two square feet of surface area will provide a strong enough epoxy bond, even on the HDPE. If not, I'll use countersunk flat head screws... or I'll use PVC for the 3/4 thick substrate. I'll test the bond strength with the botched piece of polycarbonate and a scrap of HDPE first. I don't want to buy a third sheet of $32 plastic! Oh, the joys of prototypes and one-off custom work. Good luck! Just a random thought ... front engrave decently deep and then fill with colored epoxy and polish flush. This implies that you have clear buttons tho. May the force be with you. Dave On 12/07/2012 08:25 PM, Erik Friesen wrote: I painted some of these http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/1WD16/679-2144-ND/2034700 buttons today, and engraved them, but find that the paint is not curing like I would like (not very durable), and the paint is soft enough that they did not engrave very nice. Not only that, these are backlit buttons, and the paint I used(flat black krylon from wal-mart) is a little translucent. Any suggestions about a better type of paint? -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support
