Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 14 June 2012 00:23, Chris Radek  wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 06:37:31AM -0500, John Thornton wrote:

> If I had to guess (and I do, as I have no data) I'd suspect that
> something different happens when the installer finds an internet
> connection vs. when it doesn't.

Good guess, and close.

What it seems to be is that if you have an internet connection _and_
more than 3.2GB or RAM then the LiveCD chooses a "better" kernel for
you.

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[Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[Schooner]

Hi John

Can you check your /var/log/installer directory

This sounds very similar to this thread I was involved with
http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=9&id=20126

The problem was that ubiquity was re-instating the stock kernel part way 
through the process and this caused
the rtai kernel and all packages that depended upon it (linuxcnc) to be 
removed.

The solution was bizarre but it worked.

regards



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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[Viesturs Lācis]

2012/6/14 Mark Wendt :
>
> True, but who's to say that LinuxCNC won't eventually be supported on the
> 64 bit OS?  Eventually, you won't be able to buy a 32 bit machine except
> from the antique store.

At least for PCs I think there is no way to get 32bit-only capable
system. All the new CPUs are 64 bit and they are backwards compatible
with 32 bit, so I am sure that this backwards compatibility will
remain, so 32 bit OSes will be there as long as anyone will maintain
them.

>
> /tmp is already in RAM when your system is created.  There's also a
> /var/tmp too.
>

Not really. This the first point in my optimize-for-SSD list:
1. Keep temporary data in RAM

# Edit your /etc/fstab file. Add the following lines.
tmpfs /var/log tmpfs defaults 0 0
tmpfs /tmp tmpfs defaults 0 0
tmpfs /var/tmp tmpfs defaults 0 0

AFAIK Lucid does not do that by default

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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[John Thornton]

IIRC, the ram choices were pretty limited on the 525 to 2 or 4Gb... so 
to get 3.2 I had to pick 4... sounds plausible anyway, but I doubt that 
it happened that way.

John

On 6/14/2012 6:37 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
> I
>
> 2012/6/14 Mark Wendt:
>> RAM is cheap, and you really can't have too much memory.  Well, except in
>> odd ball cases like John's where Ubuntu does funky things.
> Well, since 32-bit system does not use much more than 2,8-3,2 GB of
> RAM, I do not see point to put 4 GB in there.
> I would not be surprised finding out that it is to do with the
> installer's wish to change the kernel - if it sees that current one
> will not handle that much of RAM or something like that...
>
>
>>   I'd rather have
>> too much than not enough memory.  You can also use RAM as a fast file
>> system, though it's volatile so I wouldn't want to try and save anything
>> there.
> Yes, on my machines with SSDs one of the steps I am doing basically
> what is suggested in "install to compactflash" wiki page - move /tmp
> to RAM by creating a RAM-drive or something like that.
>

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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[Mark Wendt]

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 7:37 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote:

> I
>
> 2012/6/14 Mark Wendt :
> >
> > RAM is cheap, and you really can't have too much memory.  Well, except in
> > odd ball cases like John's where Ubuntu does funky things.
>
> Well, since 32-bit system does not use much more than 2,8-3,2 GB of
> RAM, I do not see point to put 4 GB in there.
> I would not be surprised finding out that it is to do with the
> installer's wish to change the kernel - if it sees that current one
> will not handle that much of RAM or something like that...
>

True, but who's to say that LinuxCNC won't eventually be supported on the
64 bit OS?  Eventually, you won't be able to buy a 32 bit machine except
from the antique store.

>
>
> > I'd rather have
> > too much than not enough memory.  You can also use RAM as a fast file
> > system, though it's volatile so I wouldn't want to try and save anything
> > there.
>
> Yes, on my machines with SSDs one of the steps I am doing basically
> what is suggested in "install to compactflash" wiki page - move /tmp
> to RAM by creating a RAM-drive or something like that.
>

/tmp is already in RAM when your system is created.  There's also a
/var/tmp too.

>
> --
> Viesturs
>

Cheers,
Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[Viesturs Lācis]

I

2012/6/14 Mark Wendt :
>
> RAM is cheap, and you really can't have too much memory.  Well, except in
> odd ball cases like John's where Ubuntu does funky things.

Well, since 32-bit system does not use much more than 2,8-3,2 GB of
RAM, I do not see point to put 4 GB in there.
I would not be surprised finding out that it is to do with the
installer's wish to change the kernel - if it sees that current one
will not handle that much of RAM or something like that...


> I'd rather have
> too much than not enough memory.  You can also use RAM as a fast file
> system, though it's volatile so I wouldn't want to try and save anything
> there.

Yes, on my machines with SSDs one of the steps I am doing basically
what is suggested in "install to compactflash" wiki page - move /tmp
to RAM by creating a RAM-drive or something like that.

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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[John Thornton]

Yes, but I was willing to go the extra mile for testing purposes after a 
day and a half of pulling out my hair.

John

On 6/14/2012 6:23 AM, Mark Wendt wrote:
> Much easier to pull the network cable than pull a memory chip.  ;-)
>
> Mark
>
> On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 7:00 AM, John Thornton  wrote:
>
>> I don't know if that is the ultimate solution but it does work and so
>> does popping out one memory chip from the 525.
>>
>> I think I heard something about there might be a fix for this but that
>> got lost in the haze while I was searching out the solution to problem 1
>> which started this whole mess for me.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On 6/14/2012 5:45 AM, Mark Wendt wrote:
>>> So the solution is to leave your networking unconnected until after the
>>> install is complete?
>>>
>>> Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[John Thornton]

Because there are two slots and that is how much ram that fits is the 
only reason that I have... no logical reason at all. Like Tom said on 
the IRC yesterday "it's the max".

John

On 6/14/2012 6:20 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote:
> 2012/6/14 John Thornton:
>> I don't know if that is the ultimate solution but it does work and so
>> does popping out one memory chip from the 525.
> John, can You explain, why do You use so much of RAM?
> I put 2 GB in my machines only because I do not have swap partition on SSDs.
> AFAIK LinuxCNC is happy with 1 GB, so I have another GB just in case.
> I had Lucid on my parent's PC with 512 MB RAM. It used to freeze up
> from time to time. Took me a while to realize to look at the usage of
> RAM and then I realized that I forgot to create swap partition during
> install (that pc has traditional hdd).
>

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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[Mark Wendt]

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 7:20 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote:

> 2012/6/14 John Thornton :
> > I don't know if that is the ultimate solution but it does work and so
> > does popping out one memory chip from the 525.
>
> John, can You explain, why do You use so much of RAM?
> I put 2 GB in my machines only because I do not have swap partition on
> SSDs.
> AFAIK LinuxCNC is happy with 1 GB, so I have another GB just in case.
> I had Lucid on my parent's PC with 512 MB RAM. It used to freeze up
> from time to time. Took me a while to realize to look at the usage of
> RAM and then I realized that I forgot to create swap partition during
> install (that pc has traditional hdd).
>
> --
> Viesturs
>
> If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
> http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto
>

RAM is cheap, and you really can't have too much memory.  Well, except in
odd ball cases like John's where Ubuntu does funky things.  I'd rather have
too much than not enough memory.  You can also use RAM as a fast file
system, though it's volatile so I wouldn't want to try and save anything
there.

Mark
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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[Mark Wendt]

Much easier to pull the network cable than pull a memory chip.  ;-)

Mark

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 7:00 AM, John Thornton  wrote:

> I don't know if that is the ultimate solution but it does work and so
> does popping out one memory chip from the 525.
>
> I think I heard something about there might be a fix for this but that
> got lost in the haze while I was searching out the solution to problem 1
> which started this whole mess for me.
>
> John
>
> On 6/14/2012 5:45 AM, Mark Wendt wrote:
> > So the solution is to leave your networking unconnected until after the
> > install is complete?
> >
> > Mark
>
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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[Viesturs Lācis]

2012/6/14 John Thornton :
> I don't know if that is the ultimate solution but it does work and so
> does popping out one memory chip from the 525.

John, can You explain, why do You use so much of RAM?
I put 2 GB in my machines only because I do not have swap partition on SSDs.
AFAIK LinuxCNC is happy with 1 GB, so I have another GB just in case.
I had Lucid on my parent's PC with 512 MB RAM. It used to freeze up
from time to time. Took me a while to realize to look at the usage of
RAM and then I realized that I forgot to create swap partition during
install (that pc has traditional hdd).

-- 
Viesturs

If you can't fix it, you don't own it.
http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto

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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[John Thornton]

I don't know if that is the ultimate solution but it does work and so 
does popping out one memory chip from the 525.

I think I heard something about there might be a fix for this but that 
got lost in the haze while I was searching out the solution to problem 1 
which started this whole mess for me.

John

On 6/14/2012 5:45 AM, Mark Wendt wrote:
> So the solution is to leave your networking unconnected until after the
> install is complete?
>
> Mark
>
> On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 6:23 AM, John Thornton  wrote:
>
>> Jepler sorted out that if you have 4Gb of memory and your connected to
>> the internet then ubuntu kindly unloads the real time kernel and subs
>> for a better one. I verified this a few times. 3.2Gb does not have this
>> same problem. I posted the logs yesterday to linuxcnc-dev.
>>
>> On another note what prompted me to reinstall LinuxCNC on my plasma was
>> I thought I broke it somehow trying to "fix" the psychedelic colors in
>> gedit for a ngc file when calling a subroutine file with my pyvcp button
>> gave me an error of "File not open"... which made no sense till I kept
>> trying different things on 3 different machines (after finally getting
>> LinuxCNC installed) until I came to realize what the cryptic error
>> meant. Somewhere there is a check to see if a file is loaded before a
>> subroutine is run and if you don't have a file loaded and it can be a
>> file with just M2 trying to call a sub from MDI fails as well as having
>> a halui mdi entry in your ini file. This was quite difficult to track
>> down as I don't load a splash file in the INI.
>>
>> John
>>
>> On 6/13/2012 6:23 PM, Chris Radek wrote:
>>> On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 06:37:31AM -0500, John Thornton wrote:
>>>
 After installing
 there was no CNC menu and LinuxCNC was not installed
>>> I've seen this reported before and always followed by a big chorus
>>> of "works for me!"  I think something really must be going on.
>>>
>>> If I had to guess (and I do, as I have no data) I'd suspect that
>>> something different happens when the installer finds an internet
>>> connection vs. when it doesn't.  Perhaps apt is nuking linuxcnc
>>> because a dependency is not met.  You should have a dpkg/apt log
>>> available after the install, and it may contain the smoking gun.
>>>
>>> Please let us know what you find.
>>>
>>>
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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[Mark Wendt]

So the solution is to leave your networking unconnected until after the
install is complete?

Mark

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 6:23 AM, John Thornton  wrote:

> Jepler sorted out that if you have 4Gb of memory and your connected to
> the internet then ubuntu kindly unloads the real time kernel and subs
> for a better one. I verified this a few times. 3.2Gb does not have this
> same problem. I posted the logs yesterday to linuxcnc-dev.
>
> On another note what prompted me to reinstall LinuxCNC on my plasma was
> I thought I broke it somehow trying to "fix" the psychedelic colors in
> gedit for a ngc file when calling a subroutine file with my pyvcp button
> gave me an error of "File not open"... which made no sense till I kept
> trying different things on 3 different machines (after finally getting
> LinuxCNC installed) until I came to realize what the cryptic error
> meant. Somewhere there is a check to see if a file is loaded before a
> subroutine is run and if you don't have a file loaded and it can be a
> file with just M2 trying to call a sub from MDI fails as well as having
> a halui mdi entry in your ini file. This was quite difficult to track
> down as I don't load a splash file in the INI.
>
> John
>
> On 6/13/2012 6:23 PM, Chris Radek wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 06:37:31AM -0500, John Thornton wrote:
> >
> >> After installing
> >> there was no CNC menu and LinuxCNC was not installed
> > I've seen this reported before and always followed by a big chorus
> > of "works for me!"  I think something really must be going on.
> >
> > If I had to guess (and I do, as I have no data) I'd suspect that
> > something different happens when the installer finds an internet
> > connection vs. when it doesn't.  Perhaps apt is nuking linuxcnc
> > because a dependency is not met.  You should have a dpkg/apt log
> > available after the install, and it may contain the smoking gun.
> >
> > Please let us know what you find.
> >
> >
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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[John Thornton]

Jepler sorted out that if you have 4Gb of memory and your connected to 
the internet then ubuntu kindly unloads the real time kernel and subs 
for a better one. I verified this a few times. 3.2Gb does not have this 
same problem. I posted the logs yesterday to linuxcnc-dev.

On another note what prompted me to reinstall LinuxCNC on my plasma was 
I thought I broke it somehow trying to "fix" the psychedelic colors in 
gedit for a ngc file when calling a subroutine file with my pyvcp button 
gave me an error of "File not open"... which made no sense till I kept 
trying different things on 3 different machines (after finally getting 
LinuxCNC installed) until I came to realize what the cryptic error 
meant. Somewhere there is a check to see if a file is loaded before a 
subroutine is run and if you don't have a file loaded and it can be a 
file with just M2 trying to call a sub from MDI fails as well as having 
a halui mdi entry in your ini file. This was quite difficult to track 
down as I don't load a splash file in the INI.

John

On 6/13/2012 6:23 PM, Chris Radek wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 06:37:31AM -0500, John Thornton wrote:
>
>> After installing
>> there was no CNC menu and LinuxCNC was not installed
> I've seen this reported before and always followed by a big chorus
> of "works for me!"  I think something really must be going on.
>
> If I had to guess (and I do, as I have no data) I'd suspect that
> something different happens when the installer finds an internet
> connection vs. when it doesn't.  Perhaps apt is nuking linuxcnc
> because a dependency is not met.  You should have a dpkg/apt log
> available after the install, and it may contain the smoking gun.
>
> Please let us know what you find.
>
> --
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> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 14 June 2012 00:45, andy pugh  wrote:

> the LiveCD chooses a "better" kernel for you.

I should point out that I am owed no credit for spotting this, I am
just reporting it. It was, not unexpectedly, Jepler who worked it out.

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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[Chris Radek]

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 06:37:31AM -0500, John Thornton wrote:

> After installing 
> there was no CNC menu and LinuxCNC was not installed 

I've seen this reported before and always followed by a big chorus
of "works for me!"  I think something really must be going on.

If I had to guess (and I do, as I have no data) I'd suspect that
something different happens when the installer finds an internet
connection vs. when it doesn't.  Perhaps apt is nuking linuxcnc
because a dependency is not met.  You should have a dpkg/apt log
available after the install, and it may contain the smoking gun.

Please let us know what you find.

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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[John Thornton]

OPEN_FILES = ""

was the ini setting

However it worked up to the point that I tried to edit ngc.lang to "fix" 
the highlighting

John

On 6/13/2012 10:42 AM, Michael Haberler wrote:
> Am 13.06.2012 um 13:37 schrieb John Thornton:
>
>
>> or numbered subroutine from the mdi anymore and would give me a "File
>> not open" error when I tried to execute a subroutine so I gave up and
> I remember seeing this when the OPEN_FILES= statement in the ini file didnt 
> point to a valid file.
>
> - Michael
>
>
>
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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[Viesturs Lācis]

2012/6/13 John Thornton :
> I'm just going out to the shop with a new LiveCD burned at 1x

IIRC You have D525. Any particular reason not to boot/instal from usb
drive instead of using more and more cd/dvd matrices? Usb has always
worked like a charm for me with all my D510/D525 installs. But I have
had issues with booting from CD, although the same iso image has been
used for both.

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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[Michael Haberler]

Am 13.06.2012 um 13:37 schrieb John Thornton:


> or numbered subroutine from the mdi anymore and would give me a "File 
> not open" error when I tried to execute a subroutine so I gave up and 

I remember seeing this when the OPEN_FILES= statement in the ini file didnt 
point to a valid file.

- Michael



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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[gene heskett]

On Wednesday, June 13, 2012 10:26:21 AM John Thornton did opine:

> Gene,
> 
> The offending file is
> usr/share/gtksourceview-2.0/language-specs/ngc.lang AFAIK if you just
> delete it you will get normal black and white which is less annoying
> than rainbow random colors from the current one. Anyway deleting it
> worked for me.
> 
> http://imagebin.org/216231
> 
Yikes, that's even worse than I recalled.  What ever the author of that was 
smoking, I don't think I want ANY of it.

> The only thing correct is the comments when surrounded by ( )
> 
> John
> 
> On 6/13/2012 8:43 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 13, 2012 09:40:13 AM andy pugh did opine:
> >> On 13 June 2012 12:37, John Thornton  wrote:
> >>> So while trying to fix the eye killing psychedelic highlighting in
> >>> gedit
> > 
> > I can't see the blues very well on the monitor I use on the lathe, so
> > I've been using vim in straight black and white.  But for GCode, I
> > would also like to use Gedit.  I'll give this one a shot later today.
> > 
> >> No clue on the LiveCD issue, but I found that this highlighting file
> >> was better: http://cnc-club.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=80
> > 
> > Cheers, Gene
> 
> 
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Cheers, Gene
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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[John Thornton]

I'm just going out to the shop with a new LiveCD burned at 1x and will 
boot on it then delete the existing partition and format the hard drive 
then try to install

John

On 6/13/2012 8:54 AM, Andy Pugh wrote:
>
> On 13 Jun 2012, at 12:55, John Thornton  wrote:
>
>> what was the result of your tests
>> last night?
> It just worked, no problems and a working LinuxCNC install.
>
> The difference might be that I have always been installing to a new blank 
> drive (real or VM)
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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[John Thornton]

Gene,

The offending file is 
usr/share/gtksourceview-2.0/language-specs/ngc.lang AFAIK if you just 
delete it you will get normal black and white which is less annoying 
than rainbow random colors from the current one. Anyway deleting it 
worked for me.

http://imagebin.org/216231

The only thing correct is the comments when surrounded by ( )

John

On 6/13/2012 8:43 AM, gene heskett wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 13, 2012 09:40:13 AM andy pugh did opine:
>
>> On 13 June 2012 12:37, John Thornton  wrote:
>>> So while trying to fix the eye killing psychedelic highlighting in
>>> gedit
> I can't see the blues very well on the monitor I use on the lathe, so I've
> been using vim in straight black and white.  But for GCode, I would also
> like to use Gedit.  I'll give this one a shot later today.
>
>> No clue on the LiveCD issue, but I found that this highlighting file was
>> better: http://cnc-club.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=80
>
> Cheers, Gene

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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[Andy Pugh]

On 13 Jun 2012, at 12:55, John Thornton  wrote:

> what was the result of your tests 
> last night?

It just worked, no problems and a working LinuxCNC install. 

The difference might be that I have always been installing to a new blank drive 
(real or VM)
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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[gene heskett]

On Wednesday, June 13, 2012 09:40:13 AM andy pugh did opine:

> On 13 June 2012 12:37, John Thornton  wrote:
> > So while trying to fix the eye killing psychedelic highlighting in
> > gedit
> 
I can't see the blues very well on the monitor I use on the lathe, so I've 
been using vim in straight black and white.  But for GCode, I would also 
like to use Gedit.  I'll give this one a shot later today.

> No clue on the LiveCD issue, but I found that this highlighting file was
> better: http://cnc-club.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=80


Cheers, Gene
-- 
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 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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years.

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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[John Thornton]

I just tried to install the LiveCD again after last night leaving me at 
the maroon screen of death and the only thing that got installed from 
LinuxCNC was the docs in english and truetypetracer...

John

On 6/13/2012 6:44 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 13 June 2012 12:37, John Thornton  wrote:
>> So while trying to fix the eye killing psychedelic highlighting in gedit
> No clue on the LiveCD issue, but I found that this highlighting file was 
> better:
> http://cnc-club.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=80
>

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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[John Thornton]

Andy,

Thanks for the link, I can't wait to try Nick's highlighting out as soon 
as I can get LinuxCNC to install... what was the result of your tests 
last night? I know Tom_itx had the same problem that I did and gave up 
and used the install script.

John

On 6/13/2012 6:44 AM, andy pugh wrote:
> On 13 June 2012 12:37, John Thornton  wrote:
>> So while trying to fix the eye killing psychedelic highlighting in gedit
> No clue on the LiveCD issue, but I found that this highlighting file was 
> better:
> http://cnc-club.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=80
>

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Re: [Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[andy pugh]

On 13 June 2012 12:37, John Thornton  wrote:
> So while trying to fix the eye killing psychedelic highlighting in gedit

No clue on the LiveCD issue, but I found that this highlighting file was better:
http://cnc-club.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=80

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[Emc-users] LiveCD Fails to install LinuxCNC

[John Thornton]

So while trying to fix the eye killing psychedelic highlighting in gedit 
for a ngc file I somehow broke LinuxCNC and it would not execute a named 
or numbered subroutine from the mdi anymore and would give me a "File 
not open" error when I tried to execute a subroutine so I gave up and 
grabbed what I thought was the last LiveCD that I had burned and iirc 
the one that I used on the BP to install LinuxCNC. After installing 
there was no CNC menu and LinuxCNC was not installed so I assumed I had 
the wrong disk and went and found another disk and got the same result. 
One of the two was ubuntu only for sure... so I said screw this and I'll 
just download the LiveCD again and burn a new disk on my winblows 
desktop. Next install still no CNC. So I downloaded it again on the 
ubuntu machine and burned another LiveCD. When I selected just try it or 
what ever it is the CNC menu showed up so I assumed all was well so I 
installed it and bam no LinuxCNC.

MB 525, was running 2.5 from buildbot...

Any clues?

John

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