Re: [Emc-users] Question about steels?
On 10 June 2012 19:52, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Imagine my surprise when that grade 8 bolt carved like butter, both with carbide inserts and with HSS tool steel, leaving a mirror-like finish. I was just sent this link, which is truly fascinating: http://youtu.be/mRuSYQ5Npek It shows how bad finishes can sometimes be formed due to material rolling under the cutting edge, and it is also fascinating how much of the time the effective cutting edge is made of the material itself. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Question about steels?
2012/6/12 andy pugh bodge...@gmail.com: On 10 June 2012 19:52, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Imagine my surprise when that grade 8 bolt carved like butter, both with carbide inserts and with HSS tool steel, leaving a mirror-like finish. I was just sent this link, which is truly fascinating: http://youtu.be/mRuSYQ5Npek It shows how bad finishes can sometimes be formed due to material rolling under the cutting edge, and it is also fascinating how much of the time the effective cutting edge is made of the material itself. I had a question about this exact topic in exam last Friday :) The cutting edge is where the most deformations of material is taking place, so very thin layers of material hardens (in some cases up to 2-3 times hardness increase) thus creating that blade, being capable to cut the material What is correct word in english to describe this adhesion of material to the cutting edge of instrument? Less wear of the actual instrument is the only positive effect. But as You noted, surface roughness is considerably increased. Another major drawback is loss of precision. It is shown very well shown at 2:40 of that video. And those thin layers of material stick to instrument and it is not easy to remove, so actually it can make the instrument useless. Setting appropriate speed is most effective factor to reduce this (for steel it is recommended to have surface speed more than 250 m/min). The way the coolant is delivered to cutting zone also affects the process. -- Viesturs If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Question about steels?
2012/6/12 gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com: On Tuesday, June 12, 2012 06:36:40 AM andy pugh did opine: On 10 June 2012 19:52, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Imagine my surprise when that grade 8 bolt carved like butter, both with carbide inserts and with HSS tool steel, leaving a mirror-like finish. I was just sent this link, which is truly fascinating: http://youtu.be/mRuSYQ5Npek It shows how bad finishes can sometimes be formed due to material rolling under the cutting edge, and it is also fascinating how much of the time the effective cutting edge is made of the material itself. It also seems to confirm that the T.i.N plated tool is the better tool, at least until the plating is worn away. Not necessarily: at 2:24 there is uncoated HSS tool in ECR steel at 3:59 there is Ti coated tool in ECR steel I seriously doubt that the second picture would provide better result. Ti coating might have less friction, but all the cutting parameters - surface speed, depth, feed per revolution - also have big impact for particular material. And adding appropriate S word to increase spindle speed or changing the cutting depth does not cost anything, while buying Ti coated tool certainly does. -- Viesturs If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Question about steels?
On 12 June 2012 11:56, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: Ti coating might have less friction, but all the cutting parameters - surface speed, depth, feed per revolution - also have big impact for particular material. I suspect that the youtube clip is actual-speed too, rather than slowed down. SEM is not a fast imaging method. I used to do a lot of my work squinting at a 2 second raster. I assume that frame-buffers help with that nowadays. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Question about steels?
I've never used 1144 thanks for the heads up on that. John On 6/11/2012 12:23 PM, Terry Christophersen wrote: 12L14 is better for finishes if the same part could be made with 1018 1144 (Stressproof) is even better for finishes and cuts like butter will crack when welded without preheating I see according to the chart 12L is supposed to be easier to machine than 1144 but the thing I like about 1144 is that the chips always come out small and easy to remove Terry From: John Thorntonbjt...@gmail.com To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC)emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Question about steels? Gene, I use 4140 or 41L40 for parts that need a good finish or have some toughness. 1018 is softer so you get a poor finish with light cuts. Here is a nice chart about different carbon steels, alloy steels and tool steels that we have on this side of the pond. http://www.mcmaster.com/#about-alloy-steel/=hxl3ij John On 6/10/2012 1:52 PM, gene heskett wrote: Hi everybody; Basic beginners question: When I needed to make a new locking pin last week, I considered the relatively poor finish I was able to achieve using TSC's cold rolled stock, and walked 100 feet on by and picked up a grade 8 bolt big enough that I could find that pin inside it if I carved it right. Imagine my surprise when that grade 8 bolt carved like butter, both with carbide inserts and with HSS tool steel, leaving a mirror-like finish. For a change I was proud of something I made. If I wanted to buy some stock steel that carved just as well, or perhaps even better, what alloy should I be ordering from one of these online metal peddlers? Thanks all. Cheers, Gene -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Question about steels?
Hi everybody; Basic beginners question: When I needed to make a new locking pin last week, I considered the relatively poor finish I was able to achieve using TSC's cold rolled stock, and walked 100 feet on by and picked up a grade 8 bolt big enough that I could find that pin inside it if I carved it right. Imagine my surprise when that grade 8 bolt carved like butter, both with carbide inserts and with HSS tool steel, leaving a mirror-like finish. For a change I was proud of something I made. If I wanted to buy some stock steel that carved just as well, or perhaps even better, what alloy should I be ordering from one of these online metal peddlers? Thanks all. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Give your very best today. Heaven knows it's little enough. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Question about steels?
On 10 June 2012 19:52, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: If I wanted to buy some stock steel that carved just as well, or perhaps even better, what alloy should I be ordering from one of these online metal peddlers? I use a lot of what we call Silver steel in the UK, and I think you call Drill Rod in the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_steel I think it is approximately the same as the popular O1 tool steel. Being a tool steel is it strong in the annealed state, and can be easily hardened for more demanding uses. In the as-shipped state, it machines well. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Question about steels?
Basic beginners answer (on purely theoretical grounds) s235j2g3 or -g4 equals St37-3n (all according to DIN EN 10025 off course) This is a bit better than cold rolled and it is fully beruhigt, I think they mean stress relieved. it is classed as useable for machineparts, bolts, forged parts, welded constructions, and it is easy to work with. j. On Sun, Jun 10, 2012 at 8:52 PM, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Hi everybody; Basic beginners question: When I needed to make a new locking pin last week, I considered the relatively poor finish I was able to achieve using TSC's cold rolled stock, and walked 100 feet on by and picked up a grade 8 bolt big enough that I could find that pin inside it if I carved it right. Imagine my surprise when that grade 8 bolt carved like butter, both with carbide inserts and with HSS tool steel, leaving a mirror-like finish. For a change I was proud of something I made. If I wanted to buy some stock steel that carved just as well, or perhaps even better, what alloy should I be ordering from one of these online metal peddlers? Thanks all. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Give your very best today. Heaven knows it's little enough. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Question about steels?
EN8DM iirc is a steel we used for clock parts it is a free machining hardenable steel another term you may see is leaded steels but there are a huge number of steels. choices Dave Caroline -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Question about steels?
gene heskett wrote: Hi everybody; Basic beginners question: SNIP If I wanted to buy some stock steel that carved just as well, or perhaps even better, what alloy should I be ordering from one of these online metal peddlers? Thanks all. Cheers, Gene A Grade 8 bolt will be about 35 on the Rockwell scale, grade 5 is about 30 as is most pre heat treated 4140 stock sometimes called 4140HT. Durralloy(SP) is one trade name for that type of material. Bolts are easier to find though. Ed. -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Question about steels?
On Monday, June 11, 2012 12:08:24 PM andy pugh did opine: On 10 June 2012 19:52, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: If I wanted to buy some stock steel that carved just as well, or perhaps even better, what alloy should I be ordering from one of these online metal peddlers? I use a lot of what we call Silver steel in the UK, and I think you call Drill Rod in the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_steel I think it is approximately the same as the popular O1 tool steel. Being a tool steel is it strong in the annealed state, and can be easily hardened for more demanding uses. In the as-shipped state, it machines well. Other than they centerless grind it for a precise size surface when they call it drill rod, which doubles the $$ asking, I was wondering if there was more than a passing similarity there. I'll see what I can find that is affordable. Thanks Andy. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene A formal parsing algorithm should not always be used. -- D. Gries -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Question about steels?
On 11 June 2012 17:11, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Other than they centerless grind it for a precise size surface when they call it drill rod, which doubles the $$ asking That can be an advantage, sometimes. Another reason I like it is that I can buy it on a saturday morning within walking distance of home. -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Question about steels?
Gene, I use 4140 or 41L40 for parts that need a good finish or have some toughness. 1018 is softer so you get a poor finish with light cuts. Here is a nice chart about different carbon steels, alloy steels and tool steels that we have on this side of the pond. http://www.mcmaster.com/#about-alloy-steel/=hxl3ij John On 6/10/2012 1:52 PM, gene heskett wrote: Hi everybody; Basic beginners question: When I needed to make a new locking pin last week, I considered the relatively poor finish I was able to achieve using TSC's cold rolled stock, and walked 100 feet on by and picked up a grade 8 bolt big enough that I could find that pin inside it if I carved it right. Imagine my surprise when that grade 8 bolt carved like butter, both with carbide inserts and with HSS tool steel, leaving a mirror-like finish. For a change I was proud of something I made. If I wanted to buy some stock steel that carved just as well, or perhaps even better, what alloy should I be ordering from one of these online metal peddlers? Thanks all. Cheers, Gene -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Question about steels?
12L14 is better for finishes if the same part could be made with 1018 1144 (Stressproof) is even better for finishes and cuts like butter will crack when welded without preheating I see according to the chart 12L is supposed to be easier to machine than 1144 but the thing I like about 1144 is that the chips always come out small and easy to remove Terry From: John Thornton bjt...@gmail.com To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Monday, June 11, 2012 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Question about steels? Gene, I use 4140 or 41L40 for parts that need a good finish or have some toughness. 1018 is softer so you get a poor finish with light cuts. Here is a nice chart about different carbon steels, alloy steels and tool steels that we have on this side of the pond. http://www.mcmaster.com/#about-alloy-steel/=hxl3ij John On 6/10/2012 1:52 PM, gene heskett wrote: Hi everybody; Basic beginners question: When I needed to make a new locking pin last week, I considered the relatively poor finish I was able to achieve using TSC's cold rolled stock, and walked 100 feet on by and picked up a grade 8 bolt big enough that I could find that pin inside it if I carved it right. Imagine my surprise when that grade 8 bolt carved like butter, both with carbide inserts and with HSS tool steel, leaving a mirror-like finish. For a change I was proud of something I made. If I wanted to buy some stock steel that carved just as well, or perhaps even better, what alloy should I be ordering from one of these online metal peddlers? Thanks all. Cheers, Gene -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Question about steels?
On Monday, June 11, 2012 08:12:56 PM andy pugh did opine: On 10 June 2012 19:52, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: If I wanted to buy some stock steel that carved just as well, or perhaps even better, what alloy should I be ordering from one of these online metal peddlers? I use a lot of what we call Silver steel in the UK, and I think you call Drill Rod in the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_steel I think it is approximately the same as the popular O1 tool steel. Being a tool steel is it strong in the annealed state, and can be easily hardened for more demanding uses. In the as-shipped state, it machines well. I ordered 3 pieces of 1/2 round 01 to make the nipples with, then 3 pieces of something flat .125 x .3125 in 01 to make a striker latch out of. I am inventing a latch to hold the striker closed once it has fallen and ignited the primer. And it has to be able to engage the latch in about .001 seconds. Next question: what is the sheer strength of a 3/32 roll pin well supported on both sides of the center, loaded portion? According to my calcs, it will need to stop 2 oz being blown back with an instant 1000 lb push on it, catching it before it backs up more than 20 thou. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Vermouth always makes me brilliant unless it makes me idiotic. -- E.F. Benson -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Question about steels?
On Monday, June 11, 2012 08:28:52 PM andy pugh did opine: On 11 June 2012 17:11, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Other than they centerless grind it for a precise size surface when they call it drill rod, which doubles the $$ asking That can be an advantage, sometimes. Another reason I like it is that I can buy it on a saturday morning within walking distance of home. If you are trying to make me jealous, you've succeeded. There was a place in Fairmont, 40 miles one way up the superslab that used to have structural stuff, but I never saw any fancy stuff there. There may be a source in Charleston, 100 miles south, or Pittsburgh, 145 miles north. Or just go online drop the card numbers. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene Not all who own a harp are harpers. -- Marcus Terentius Varro -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Question about steels?
On 12 June 2012 01:33, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: Another reason I like it is that I can buy it on a saturday morning within walking distance of home. If you are trying to make me jealous, you've succeeded. There was a place in Fairmont, 40 miles one way up the superslab that used to have structural stuff, but I never saw any fancy stuff there. Basic stuff is more difficult, but a local tool shop stocks silver steel. http://www.cromwell.co.uk/static/publication/1187/pages/752.pdf -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
