Re: [Emc-users] more powerful nema23 need.
2010/11/22 Spiderdab 77...@tiscali.it: so, the nema23 i'm using are (on paper):rated current 2,8A , 4 wire and have a holding torque of 12,6 kgf/cm (175 oz/in). I have Nema23 steppers with rated holding torque 3.0Nm, which, if I am correct, is 425 oz/in. I just bought these: http://www.slidesandballscrews.com/sy60sth883008-nema-stepper-motor-p-118.html?cPath=45_81 You can find them on eBay too. I once purchased them from HubbardCNC: http://stores.ebay.com/HUBBARD-CNC-INC?_rdc=1 That particular 3.0 Nm motor is this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/Stepper-motor-425-oz-in-8-wire-Dual-S-Bipolar-Unipolar-/330473088298?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item4cf1bb252a#ht_746wt_714 Most probably, other sellers have similar motors as well. Viesturs -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] more powerful nema23 need.
On 22 November 2010 10:50, Spiderdab 77...@tiscali.it wrote: i would like to know if you know about nema23 motors (either stepper or servo) with more (kind of double..) torque. They do exist but might not give you the advantage you expect. My limited experience is that the bigger motors become rather slow, in that the torque drops off more rapidly with speed than the smaller motors, and you are then into an area of diminishing returns. You might be better reducing the drum diameter and increasing the drive voltage. This will give you more wire tension and the higher voltage should allow you to run the motors faster. This might need new stepper drivers and power suppliesas I am talking about probably going to 60 or 70V. For this sort of high-speed work I think that servos are almost certainly a better choice, however they are not especially cheap. If you do go with a servo system then I would strongly suggest looking at the drives from Pico and Mesa which offload all the computational work to the PC and EMC2. This will be both cheaper and more satisfactory. http://pico-systems.com/motion.html http://www.mesanet.com (of particular interest will be the 7i39 and 8i20) -- atp -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] more powerful nema23 need.
Il 22/11/2010 12:26, Andy Pugh ha scritto: On 22 November 2010 10:50, Spiderdab77...@tiscali.it wrote: i would like to know if you know about nema23 motors (either stepper or servo) with more (kind of double..) torque. They do exist but might not give you the advantage you expect. My limited experience is that the bigger motors become rather slow, in that the torque drops off more rapidly with speed than the smaller motors, and you are then into an area of diminishing returns. You might be better reducing the drum diameter and increasing the drive voltage. This will give you more wire tension and the higher voltage should allow you to run the motors faster. This might need new stepper drivers and power suppliesas I am talking about probably going to 60 or 70V. For this sort of high-speed work I think that servos are almost certainly a better choice, however they are not especially cheap. If you do go with a servo system then I would strongly suggest looking at the drives from Pico and Mesa which offload all the computational work to the PC and EMC2. This will be both cheaper and more satisfactory. http://pico-systems.com/motion.html http://www.mesanet.com (of particular interest will be the 7i39 and 8i20) my stepper motors are these: http://www.goodluckbuy.com/nema-23-stepper-motor-12-6kgcm-1-8degre-4leads-56mm-57bygh56-401a.html ...and with this power supply: http://www.trcelectronics.com/Meanwell/sp-320-24.shtml so, supposing to use my steppers and changing only the drive, how much voltage do you think can i apply to these? Than i'm interested in learning how to use servos and closed loop, so i'm reading much on discussions about this. that's why people are asking me to use this system to move a camera of about 20-30kg. so i'll need a more serius/powerful/precise system.. i'm going to ask about in a later moment. thanks. -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] more powerful nema23 need.
2010/11/22 Andy Pugh a...@andypugh.fsnet.co.uk: That's a much more serious proposition, and will need real money. Probably around EUR1000 per motor (for a 20Nm 400V AC servo). For drives the Mesa 8i20 might be an option, though support in EMC2 is still rather experimental. Actually I had a case, where we were discussing servos vs steppers, and the main unanswered question about cost-efficient servo system was motors. Can anyone share some source for reasonably priced servo motors? I am interested in not-very-powerful motors - somewhere in 2-10 Nm range. I saw one in Pico Systems homepage, but 0,4 Nm seemed bit too small. By the way, is the pricing (at least approximate) for Mesa 8i20 available? I did not see in their homepage. Viesturs -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] more powerful nema23 need.
Il 22/11/2010 15:40, Andy Pugh ha scritto: On 22 November 2010 14:23, Spiderdab77...@tiscali.it wrote: my stepper motors are these: http://www.goodluckbuy.com/nema-23-stepper-motor-12-6kgcm-1-8degre-4leads-56mm-57bygh56-401a.html Those are quite short steppers, there are some about twice as long with about twice the torque, yes, i've found them for something like 30-40€ each.. and could be ok. so, supposing to use my steppers and changing only the drive, how much voltage do you think can i apply to these? The motors have a dielectric strength quoted of 500V AC for one minute. They should work fine at 100V. The limiting factor is likely to be the stepper drive. that's what i was thinking.. The stepper drive will limit the current to the set value, so steady-state the voltage across the motor will be exactly the same as it is now (about 2.5V). The advantage is that when the motor is spinning rapidly it can still supply the same current with a 50V back-emf. didn't understand this part. have you got a name of a drive i could use? Than i'm interested in learning how to use servos and closed loop, so i'm reading much on discussions about this. that's why people are asking me to use this system to move a camera of about 20-30kg. so i'll need a more serius/powerful/precise system.. i'm going to ask about in a later moment. That's a much more serious proposition, and will need real money. Probably around EUR1000 per motor (for a 20Nm 400V AC servo). For drives the Mesa 8i20 might be an option, though support in EMC2 is still rather experimental. i've seen that, and found it very interesting! a suggestion on where to find such motors? -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] more powerful nema23 need.
On 22 November 2010 16:16, Spiderdab 77...@tiscali.it wrote: The stepper drive will limit the current to the set value, so steady-state the voltage across the motor will be exactly the same as it is now (about 2.5V). The advantage is that when the motor is spinning rapidly it can still supply the same current with a 50V back-emf. didn't understand this part. have you got a name of a drive i could use? A stepper drive should run at constant current. However a stepper motor (in fact any motor) can also be considered as a generator. To push the required current through the motor you need a supply voltage which is higher than the voltage that the motor generates at that speed. So, while the stepper motor might need 2.5 volts to push 2A through it when static, it takes 50, 70, maybe 100V to push the same current through it at high speed. This is a 70V drive: http://www.slidesandballscrews.com/2m880n-microstepping-driver-p-303.html?cPath=44_97 And for even more money, this one runs direct from mains voltage input: http://www.slidesandballscrews.com/2m2280n-high-voltage-stepper-driver-p-304.html?cPath=44_97 (And, while we are there, these drives designed to bolt direct to the back of the motors look interesting) http://www.slidesandballscrews.com/uim24008-miniature-stepper-driver-p-483.html?cPath=44_97 i've seen that, and found it very interesting! a suggestion on where to find such motors? eBay? Or, if somebody else is paying: http://www.inverterdrive.com/group/Servo-Motors-AC/default.aspx -- atp -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] more powerful nema23 need.
On 22 November 2010 15:34, Viesturs Lācis viesturs.la...@gmail.com wrote: Actually I had a case, where we were discussing servos vs steppers, and the main unanswered question about cost-efficient servo system was motors. Can anyone share some source for reasonably priced servo motors? I have always wondered if the dmm-tech drives will work with EMC2. The pricing looks very good. http://www.dmm-tech.com/Motor.html -- atp -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] more powerful nema23 need.
On Mon, 22 Nov 2010 17:16 +0100, Spiderdab 77...@tiscali.it wrote: Il 22/11/2010 15:40, Andy Pugh ha scritto: steady-state the voltage across the motor will be exactly the same as it is now (about 2.5V). The advantage is that when the motor is spinning rapidly it can still supply the same current with a 50V back-emf. didn't understand this part. have you got a name of a drive i could use? Gecko drives are very popular and work quite well. http://geckodrive.com/products.aspx John Kasunich -- John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] more powerful nema23 need.
Il 22/11/2010 15:40, Andy Pugh ha scritto: On 22 November 2010 14:23, Spiderdab77...@tiscali.it wrote: my stepper motors are these: http://www.goodluckbuy.com/nema-23-stepper-motor-12-6kgcm-1-8degre-4leads-56mm-57bygh56-401a.html Those are quite short steppers, there are some about twice as long with about twice the torque, so, supposing to use my steppers and changing only the drive, how much voltage do you think can i apply to these? The motors have a dielectric strength quoted of 500V AC for one minute. They should work fine at 100V. The limiting factor is likely to be the stepper drive. The stepper drive will limit the current to the set value, so steady-state the voltage across the motor will be exactly the same as it is now (about 2.5V). The advantage is that when the motor is spinning rapidly it can still supply the same current with a 50V back-emf. Than i'm interested in learning how to use servos and closed loop, so i'm reading much on discussions about this. that's why people are asking me to use this system to move a camera of about 20-30kg. so i'll need a more serius/powerful/precise system.. i'm going to ask about in a later moment. That's a much more serious proposition, and will need real money. Probably around EUR1000 per motor (for a 20Nm 400V AC servo). For drives the Mesa 8i20 might be an option, though support in EMC2 is still rather experimental. ...and what about the 7i29? i could use two of them for a 4 motors system.. -- Beautiful is writing same markup. Internet Explorer 9 supports standards for HTML5, CSS3, SVG 1.1, ECMAScript5, and DOM L2 L3. Spend less time writing and rewriting code and more time creating great experiences on the web. Be a part of the beta today http://p.sf.net/sfu/msIE9-sfdev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] more powerful nema23 need.
On 22 November 2010 16:50, gene heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: This is a 70V drive: http://www.slidesandballscrews.com/2m880n-microstepping-driver-p-303.html?cPath=44_97 And for even more money, this one runs direct from mains voltage input: http://www.slidesandballscrews.com/2m2280n-high-voltage-stepper-driver-p-304.html?cPath=44_97 Those prices are in Euros? UK Pounds. We don't need no Euros! -- atp -- atp -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] more powerful nema23 need.
Viesturs Lācis wrote: Actually I had a case, where we were discussing servos vs steppers, and the main unanswered question about cost-efficient servo system was motors. Can anyone share some source for reasonably priced servo motors? I am interested in not-very-powerful motors - somewhere in 2-10 Nm range. I saw one in Pico Systems homepage, but 0,4 Nm seemed bit too small. I don't have those available any more, anyway. Keling has some truly awesome brushless servo motors, and I have drives for them. The size 23 motor from Keling is $52 without encoder, and the CUI AMT103 encoder from Digi-Key is about $28. My servo amp for brushless motors is $150 per axis. The PWM controller for that amp is $250 for 4 axes. Jon -- Increase Visibility of Your 3D Game App Earn a Chance To Win $500! Tap into the largest installed PC base get more eyes on your game by optimizing for Intel(R) Graphics Technology. Get started today with the Intel(R) Software Partner Program. Five $500 cash prizes are up for grabs. http://p.sf.net/sfu/intelisp-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
