Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated

2019-02-19 Thread Simon Lees



On 19/02/2019 18:52, Stefan Schmidt wrote:
> Hello.
> 
> On 18.02.19 07:07, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
>> Morning Simon,
>>
>> What I am thinking is the master branch would have the weekly releases for 
>> developers and stable releases would be  once a month.
> 
> No, sorry. I don't think that makes sense. We don't need a tarball
> packaged from git without any extra work. People who want bleeding edge
> stay on git. If we would provide snapshots people would expect some
> extra testing on them which would simply not happen.
> 
>> What do you think about this?
> 
> I think we should stick with what we talked about and not mix in other
> things every day.
> 
> 1) Try a 5 months release schedule to see if that works better and lifts
> some pressure form the 3 months cycle.
> 
> 2) For stable updates we will have a cron job running that checks every
> Monday if there are new patches in the stable branches compared to the
> last stable update. If there are we trigger the process to do a new release.
> 

Checking every Monday is fine but my original point was potentially
having point releases every week won't be that useful because as
packagers we are likely not going to want to put through an update once
a week.

In my opinion something like this would work better

Check Every Monday:
If a Serious / Critical / showstopper bug has been fixed -> Release
If more then X fixes haven't been released yet -> Release (Lets call X
10 for now)
If the oldest fix has been waiting 4 or more weeks -> Release

Otherwise reassess the following week. This way Important fixes get out
quickly but people don't start ignoring releases because the last 3
releases have just had one minor fix for something they don't care
about. If point releases were just weekly if we have a commit over a 5
month release cycle we could easily get between 10-20 point releases
which in my opinion is too much.

Cheers

-- 

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Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated

2019-02-19 Thread Jonathan Aquilina
Hi Stefan,

Sorry about the changes to the plan that wasn’t my intention. I am in complete 
agreement with you on the below points. When ever you are ready with the script 
let me know and we can get things going with the infrastructure with a linode I 
have and at least get the release out and running.

Regards,
Jonathan

On 19/02/2019, 09:23, "Stefan Schmidt"  wrote:

Hello.

On 18.02.19 07:07, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> Morning Simon,
> 
> What I am thinking is the master branch would have the weekly releases 
for developers and stable releases would be  once a month.

No, sorry. I don't think that makes sense. We don't need a tarball
packaged from git without any extra work. People who want bleeding edge
stay on git. If we would provide snapshots people would expect some
extra testing on them which would simply not happen.

> What do you think about this?

I think we should stick with what we talked about and not mix in other
things every day.

1) Try a 5 months release schedule to see if that works better and lifts
some pressure form the 3 months cycle.

2) For stable updates we will have a cron job running that checks every
Monday if there are new patches in the stable branches compared to the
last stable update. If there are we trigger the process to do a new release.

In practice that would mean we do it really "on-demand", as in, some fix
was seen worthwhile backporting. I would imagine that will give us
weekly updates for the first few weeks after a major release and after
that only occasionally an update.

regards
Stefan Schmidt


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Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated

2019-02-19 Thread Stefan Schmidt
Hello.

On 16.02.19 00:37, Simon Lees wrote:
> 
> 
> On 16/02/2019 02:07, Stefan Schmidt wrote:
>> Hello.
>>
>> We pushed back on the initial schedule to not get everyone caught by
>> surprise of a freeze.
>>
>> We had some extra weeks now and I wonder if the following updated
>> schedule would work?
>>
>> === Schedule ===
>> 2018-08-17 Merge window for 1.22 opens
>> 2019-02-20 Notice about soon ending merge window
>> 2019-02-28 Merge window is over. Freeze in place.
>> * Only bug fixes from this point
>> * Alpha release tarball
>> * One month stabilization phase starts
>> 2019-03-07 Beta1 release tarball
>> * Only critical fixes from this point
>> 2019-03-14 Beta2 release tarball
>> 2019-03-21 EFL 1.22 is out
>>
>> As a sidenote I would consider this the last release with autotools. We
>> will also have a meson based tarball ready at that point which we would
>> appreciate testing from packagers. After the release is out we should
>> remove autotools support from master to focus on one build system only.
>> Autotools will only be kept use in the 1.22.x releases for maintenance.
>>
> 
> Id be happy to test a meson tarball whenever there is one available.

Perfect. I will try that we have some with the alpha and beta releases
for 1.22.

regards
Stefan Schmidt


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Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated

2019-02-19 Thread Stefan Schmidt
Hello.

On 18.02.19 07:07, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> Morning Simon,
> 
> What I am thinking is the master branch would have the weekly releases for 
> developers and stable releases would be  once a month.

No, sorry. I don't think that makes sense. We don't need a tarball
packaged from git without any extra work. People who want bleeding edge
stay on git. If we would provide snapshots people would expect some
extra testing on them which would simply not happen.

> What do you think about this?

I think we should stick with what we talked about and not mix in other
things every day.

1) Try a 5 months release schedule to see if that works better and lifts
some pressure form the 3 months cycle.

2) For stable updates we will have a cron job running that checks every
Monday if there are new patches in the stable branches compared to the
last stable update. If there are we trigger the process to do a new release.

In practice that would mean we do it really "on-demand", as in, some fix
was seen worthwhile backporting. I would imagine that will give us
weekly updates for the first few weeks after a major release and after
that only occasionally an update.

regards
Stefan Schmidt


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Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated

2019-02-19 Thread Stefan Schmidt
Hello.

On 16.02.19 05:03, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> Hi Stefan,
> 
> I thought you were making a few changes to it given we are doing 5 month 
> major releases and then weekly point releases.

There is nothing in the script that would encode the release schedule.

regards
Stefan Schmidt


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Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated

2019-02-18 Thread Carsten Haitzler
On Mon, 18 Feb 2019 09:15:06 + Jonathan Aquilina 
said:

> Hi Raster,
> 
> What about those end users that might want more bleeding edge stuff to test
> etc? Currently how often are new tarballs generated prior to a stable release?

git master. why do they need bleeding edge tarballs?

> Regards,
> Jonathan
> 
> On 18/02/2019, 09:34, "Carsten Haitzler"  wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 18 Feb 2019 06:07:18 + Jonathan Aquilina
>  said:
> 
> > Morning Simon,
> > 
> > What I am thinking is the master branch would have the weekly releases
> > for developers and stable releases would be  once a month.
> 
> why weekly releases? that's not going to have any release PROCESS done
> other than "make distcheck" or "ninja dist" - i don't see any stabilization
> work or QA being done beyond that (it won't be sustainable at that rate
> without basically no QA). at that point we have git master itself - so anyone
> interested in such things can just use git master.
> 
> > What do you think about this?
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Jonathan
> > 
> > -Original Message-
>     > From: Simon Lees  
> > Sent: 17 February 2019 23:16
> > To: enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > Subject: Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On 16/02/2019 20:24, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> > > Hi Simon,
> > > 
> > > My idea for that is more for developers to have more frequent
> > > snapshots granted there is the repository that one can pull from but
> > > that will always be the latest commits you will be pulling from the
> > > repo.
> > > 
> > But these snapshots would be different, most developers are following
> > the master branch rather then the 1.22 branch that we use for doing
> > point releases
> > 
> > -- 
> > 
> > Simon Lees (Simotek)http://simotek.net
> > 
> > Emergency Update Team   keybase.io/simotek
> > SUSE Linux   Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30
> > GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
> > 
> > 
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> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --
> Carsten Haitzler - ras...@rasterman.com
> 
> 
> 


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Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated

2019-02-18 Thread Simon Lees


On 18/02/2019 19:45, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> Hi Raster,
> 
> What about those end users that might want more bleeding edge stuff to test 
> etc? Currently how often are new tarballs generated prior to a stable release?
> 
> Regards,
> Jonathan

Regularly once we get to the Alpha / Beta stage but they are tagged as
1.22.0-alpha1 / 1.22.0- beta1, before 1.22.0 is released. Theyll
generally be once a week leading upto the next release. But we haven't
done them during the development period as they won't be anymore stable
then just running git master which for regularly updating users is
easier anyway.

-- 

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Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated

2019-02-18 Thread Jonathan Aquilina
Hi Raster,

What about those end users that might want more bleeding edge stuff to test 
etc? Currently how often are new tarballs generated prior to a stable release?

Regards,
Jonathan

On 18/02/2019, 09:34, "Carsten Haitzler"  wrote:

On Mon, 18 Feb 2019 06:07:18 + Jonathan Aquilina 

said:

> Morning Simon,
> 
> What I am thinking is the master branch would have the weekly releases for
> developers and stable releases would be  once a month.

why weekly releases? that's not going to have any release PROCESS done other
than "make distcheck" or "ninja dist" - i don't see any stabilization work 
or
QA being done beyond that (it won't be sustainable at that rate without
basically no QA). at that point we have git master itself - so anyone
interested in such things can just use git master.

> What do you think about this?
> 
> Regards,
> Jonathan
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Simon Lees  
> Sent: 17 February 2019 23:16
    > To: enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated
> 
> 
> 
> On 16/02/2019 20:24, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> > Hi Simon,
> > 
> > My idea for that is more for developers to have more frequent snapshots
> > granted there is the repository that one can pull from but that will 
always
> > be the latest commits you will be pulling from the repo.
> > 
> But these snapshots would be different, most developers are following the
> master branch rather then the 1.22 branch that we use for doing point 
releases
> 
> -- 
> 
> Simon Lees (Simotek)http://simotek.net
> 
> Emergency Update Team   keybase.io/simotek
> SUSE Linux   Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30
> GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
> 
> 
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Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated

2019-02-18 Thread The Rasterman
On Mon, 18 Feb 2019 06:07:18 + Jonathan Aquilina 
said:

> Morning Simon,
> 
> What I am thinking is the master branch would have the weekly releases for
> developers and stable releases would be  once a month.

why weekly releases? that's not going to have any release PROCESS done other
than "make distcheck" or "ninja dist" - i don't see any stabilization work or
QA being done beyond that (it won't be sustainable at that rate without
basically no QA). at that point we have git master itself - so anyone
interested in such things can just use git master.

> What do you think about this?
> 
> Regards,
> Jonathan
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Simon Lees  
> Sent: 17 February 2019 23:16
> To: enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated
> 
> 
> 
> On 16/02/2019 20:24, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> > Hi Simon,
> > 
> > My idea for that is more for developers to have more frequent snapshots
> > granted there is the repository that one can pull from but that will always
> > be the latest commits you will be pulling from the repo.
> > 
> But these snapshots would be different, most developers are following the
> master branch rather then the 1.22 branch that we use for doing point releases
> 
> -- 
> 
> Simon Lees (Simotek)http://simotek.net
> 
> Emergency Update Team   keybase.io/simotek
> SUSE Linux   Adelaide Australia, UTC+10:30
> GPG Fingerprint: 5B87 DB9D 88DC F606 E489 CEC5 0922 C246 02F0 014B
> 
> 
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Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated

2019-02-18 Thread The Rasterman
On Mon, 18 Feb 2019 08:46:29 +1030 Simon Lees  said:

> 
> 
> On 16/02/2019 20:24, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> > Hi Simon,
> > 
> > My idea for that is more for developers to have more frequent snapshots
> > granted there is the repository that one can pull from but that will always
> > be the latest commits you will be pulling from the repo.
> > 
> But these snapshots would be different, most developers are following
> the master branch rather then the 1.22 branch that we use for doing
> point releases

which means it's better to do more frequent minor releases rather than micro
bug-fix releases. (it's more in-line with what is being actually tested and run
by developers day to day). having a trimmed down release process would be
needed for that to happen though.

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Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated

2019-02-17 Thread Jonathan Aquilina
Morning Simon,

What I am thinking is the master branch would have the weekly releases for 
developers and stable releases would be  once a month.

What do you think about this?

Regards,
Jonathan

-Original Message-
From: Simon Lees  
Sent: 17 February 2019 23:16
To: enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated



On 16/02/2019 20:24, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> Hi Simon,
> 
> My idea for that is more for developers to have more frequent snapshots 
> granted there is the repository that one can pull from but that will always 
> be the latest commits you will be pulling from the repo.
> 
But these snapshots would be different, most developers are following the 
master branch rather then the 1.22 branch that we use for doing point releases

-- 

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Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated

2019-02-17 Thread Simon Lees


On 16/02/2019 20:24, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> Hi Simon,
> 
> My idea for that is more for developers to have more frequent snapshots 
> granted there is the repository that one can pull from but that will always 
> be the latest commits you will be pulling from the repo.
> 
But these snapshots would be different, most developers are following
the master branch rather then the 1.22 branch that we use for doing
point releases

-- 

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Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated

2019-02-16 Thread Jonathan Aquilina
Hi Simon,

My idea for that is more for developers to have more frequent snapshots granted 
there is the repository that one can pull from but that will always be the 
latest commits you will be pulling from the repo.

-Original Message-
From: Simon Lees  
Sent: 16 February 2019 10:52
To: enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated



On 16/02/2019 14:33, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> Hi Stefan,
> 
> I thought you were making a few changes to it given we are doing 5 month 
> major releases and then weekly point releases.
> 
> Regards,
> Jonathan.
> 

Personally I think Monthly point releases are probably more then enough unless 
we find a major issue. Distro's who are the major users of them probably won't 
update once a week, I'd also expect that once a release settles we probably 
wouldn't even see new commits once a week.

-- 

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Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated

2019-02-16 Thread Simon Lees


On 16/02/2019 14:33, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> Hi Stefan,
> 
> I thought you were making a few changes to it given we are doing 5 month 
> major releases and then weekly point releases.
> 
> Regards,
> Jonathan.
> 

Personally I think Monthly point releases are probably more then enough
unless we find a major issue. Distro's who are the major users of them
probably won't update once a week, I'd also expect that once a release
settles we probably wouldn't even see new commits once a week.

-- 

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Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated

2019-02-15 Thread Jonathan Aquilina
Hi Stefan,

I thought you were making a few changes to it given we are doing 5 month major 
releases and then weekly point releases.

Regards,
Jonathan.

-Original Message-
From: Stefan Schmidt  
Sent: 15 February 2019 19:56
To: enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated

Hello Jonathan.

On 15.02.19 16:41, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> Hi Stefan,
> 
> Not to derail the below in terms of the scripts that will be used to generate 
> the release do you have an ETA for these scripts or will it be sometime next 
> week?

Not sure what you are talking about here. It will be the same release script I 
used all the time. I pointed you several times to it. Last time when we had or 
IRC chat.

regards
Stefan Schmidt

> -Original Message-
> From: Stefan Schmidt 
> Sent: 15 February 2019 16:37
> To: enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated
> 
> Hello.
> 
> We pushed back on the initial schedule to not get everyone caught by surprise 
> of a freeze.
> 
> We had some extra weeks now and I wonder if the following updated schedule 
> would work?
> 
> === Schedule ===
> 2018-08-17 Merge window for 1.22 opens
> 2019-02-20 Notice about soon ending merge window
> 2019-02-28 Merge window is over. Freeze in place.
> * Only bug fixes from this point
> * Alpha release tarball
> * One month stabilization phase starts
> 2019-03-07 Beta1 release tarball
> * Only critical fixes from this point
> 2019-03-14 Beta2 release tarball
> 2019-03-21 EFL 1.22 is out
> 
> As a sidenote I would consider this the last release with autotools. We will 
> also have a meson based tarball ready at that point which we would appreciate 
> testing from packagers. After the release is out we should remove autotools 
> support from master to focus on one build system only.
> Autotools will only be kept use in the 1.22.x releases for maintenance.
> 
> If this schedule does not work for you for a good reason speak up now.
> 
> regards
> Stefan Schmidt
> 
> 
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Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated

2019-02-15 Thread Simon Lees


On 16/02/2019 02:07, Stefan Schmidt wrote:
> Hello.
> 
> We pushed back on the initial schedule to not get everyone caught by
> surprise of a freeze.
> 
> We had some extra weeks now and I wonder if the following updated
> schedule would work?
> 
> === Schedule ===
> 2018-08-17 Merge window for 1.22 opens
> 2019-02-20 Notice about soon ending merge window
> 2019-02-28 Merge window is over. Freeze in place.
> * Only bug fixes from this point
> * Alpha release tarball
> * One month stabilization phase starts
> 2019-03-07 Beta1 release tarball
> * Only critical fixes from this point
> 2019-03-14 Beta2 release tarball
> 2019-03-21 EFL 1.22 is out
> 
> As a sidenote I would consider this the last release with autotools. We
> will also have a meson based tarball ready at that point which we would
> appreciate testing from packagers. After the release is out we should
> remove autotools support from master to focus on one build system only.
> Autotools will only be kept use in the 1.22.x releases for maintenance.
> 

Id be happy to test a meson tarball whenever there is one available.

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Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated

2019-02-15 Thread Stefan Schmidt
Hello Jonathan.

On 15.02.19 16:41, Jonathan Aquilina wrote:
> Hi Stefan,
> 
> Not to derail the below in terms of the scripts that will be used to generate 
> the release do you have an ETA for these scripts or will it be sometime next 
> week?

Not sure what you are talking about here. It will be the same release
script I used all the time. I pointed you several times to it. Last time
when we had or IRC chat.

regards
Stefan Schmidt

> -Original Message-
> From: Stefan Schmidt  
> Sent: 15 February 2019 16:37
> To: enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated
> 
> Hello.
> 
> We pushed back on the initial schedule to not get everyone caught by surprise 
> of a freeze.
> 
> We had some extra weeks now and I wonder if the following updated schedule 
> would work?
> 
> === Schedule ===
> 2018-08-17 Merge window for 1.22 opens
> 2019-02-20 Notice about soon ending merge window
> 2019-02-28 Merge window is over. Freeze in place.
> * Only bug fixes from this point
> * Alpha release tarball
> * One month stabilization phase starts
> 2019-03-07 Beta1 release tarball
> * Only critical fixes from this point
> 2019-03-14 Beta2 release tarball
> 2019-03-21 EFL 1.22 is out
> 
> As a sidenote I would consider this the last release with autotools. We will 
> also have a meson based tarball ready at that point which we would appreciate 
> testing from packagers. After the release is out we should remove autotools 
> support from master to focus on one build system only.
> Autotools will only be kept use in the 1.22.x releases for maintenance.
> 
> If this schedule does not work for you for a good reason speak up now.
> 
> regards
> Stefan Schmidt
> 
> 
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> 
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Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated

2019-02-15 Thread Jonathan Aquilina
Hi Stefan,

Not to derail the below in terms of the scripts that will be used to generate 
the release do you have an ETA for these scripts or will it be sometime next 
week?

-Original Message-
From: Stefan Schmidt  
Sent: 15 February 2019 16:37
To: enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated

Hello.

We pushed back on the initial schedule to not get everyone caught by surprise 
of a freeze.

We had some extra weeks now and I wonder if the following updated schedule 
would work?

=== Schedule ===
2018-08-17 Merge window for 1.22 opens
2019-02-20 Notice about soon ending merge window
2019-02-28 Merge window is over. Freeze in place.
* Only bug fixes from this point
* Alpha release tarball
* One month stabilization phase starts
2019-03-07 Beta1 release tarball
* Only critical fixes from this point
2019-03-14 Beta2 release tarball
2019-03-21 EFL 1.22 is out

As a sidenote I would consider this the last release with autotools. We will 
also have a meson based tarball ready at that point which we would appreciate 
testing from packagers. After the release is out we should remove autotools 
support from master to focus on one build system only.
Autotools will only be kept use in the 1.22.x releases for maintenance.

If this schedule does not work for you for a good reason speak up now.

regards
Stefan Schmidt


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Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated

2019-02-15 Thread The Rasterman
On Fri, 15 Feb 2019 16:37:06 +0100 Stefan Schmidt 
said:

i think that sounds sensible.

> Hello.
> 
> We pushed back on the initial schedule to not get everyone caught by
> surprise of a freeze.
> 
> We had some extra weeks now and I wonder if the following updated
> schedule would work?
> 
> === Schedule ===
> 2018-08-17 Merge window for 1.22 opens
> 2019-02-20 Notice about soon ending merge window
> 2019-02-28 Merge window is over. Freeze in place.
> * Only bug fixes from this point
> * Alpha release tarball
> * One month stabilization phase starts
> 2019-03-07 Beta1 release tarball
> * Only critical fixes from this point
> 2019-03-14 Beta2 release tarball
> 2019-03-21 EFL 1.22 is out
> 
> As a sidenote I would consider this the last release with autotools. We
> will also have a meson based tarball ready at that point which we would
> appreciate testing from packagers. After the release is out we should
> remove autotools support from master to focus on one build system only.
> Autotools will only be kept use in the 1.22.x releases for maintenance.
> 
> If this schedule does not work for you for a good reason speak up now.
> 
> regards
> Stefan Schmidt
> 
> 
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> 


-- 
- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --
Carsten Haitzler - ras...@rasterman.com



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Re: [E-devel] 1.22 schedule proposal - updated

2019-02-15 Thread Stefan Schmidt
Hello.

We pushed back on the initial schedule to not get everyone caught by
surprise of a freeze.

We had some extra weeks now and I wonder if the following updated
schedule would work?

=== Schedule ===
2018-08-17 Merge window for 1.22 opens
2019-02-20 Notice about soon ending merge window
2019-02-28 Merge window is over. Freeze in place.
* Only bug fixes from this point
* Alpha release tarball
* One month stabilization phase starts
2019-03-07 Beta1 release tarball
* Only critical fixes from this point
2019-03-14 Beta2 release tarball
2019-03-21 EFL 1.22 is out

As a sidenote I would consider this the last release with autotools. We
will also have a meson based tarball ready at that point which we would
appreciate testing from packagers. After the release is out we should
remove autotools support from master to focus on one build system only.
Autotools will only be kept use in the 1.22.x releases for maintenance.

If this schedule does not work for you for a good reason speak up now.

regards
Stefan Schmidt


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