[EVDL] Seeding EV interest: EVent: EV ride-n-drives @EcoDistrict EV Day
I am glad that a report of the EVent was posted and I agree with what you
stated, that the monetary saving is of interest to many of the public.
But I disagree that people talking to the public should 'always' talk up the
savings. Of what and how you talk to the public will gauge your success in
conveying EV enlightenment and seed EV interest.
My personal incentive to get out and maintain a walker exercise routine to
help ensure my stamina so if I feel good on Sept 19th, I can attend the
eaasv.org EVent at a local College.
But when I get the opportunity to chat with the public, I will not 'always'
talk money. I have learned since the early 1990's at each of many, many
EVents I have attended, that each person is different (their thinking and
priorities are different, etc.).
In a sense, when we talk to the people, we are liken to a person seeking a
sale (but we are seeking to give accurate EV information to offset the
bought-and-paid-for misinformation spewed in the media, not monetary gain
like a traditional salesperson.
A good salesperson reads the body language of the person, and starts out
with a neutral (ice-breaker) statement, and lets them show their interest.
Sometimes they only parrot (repeat) what they were 'told' by the media, as
if it were their own opinion(s). I let them rant to a point and then
interject a different direction for the chat to go in, so as to touch on
other EV related topics. With my goal to learn what they know or do not
know, and while not force-feeding them the accurate EV facts, lets them
discover that what they were 'told' was not true, and they should gather
more information (riding in EVs) and make up their own mind(s).
It is a balancing act, as you do not get much time before you lose their
attention (today's attention span is shorter than the cheapest TV ad = real
short). So, I have learned to hone my speaking skills to get in, and let
them let go of the conversation within that time frame (if they want more,
they with continue the chat. If not, you have left them a kind and friendly
out, to 'change the channel' = you do not leave them with any hard-feelings,
etc.).
Here is one of many recent EVangel experiences I will share:
As some know I drove an EV conversion for over 15 years
brucedp.150m.com/blazer
and lost it in a 'in the wrong place at the wrong time' accident ::sob::
Since then, I have driven very little, but when I do it is in a more
efficient small ice (built for munch-kins, not someone of my normal size).
So, once a week, I put 1 gallon of dino-juice (petrol) in the ice.
Recently, at the pump behind me, was a youngish-man with his silver Mustang.
I broke-the-ice with a 'What year is it?' question. His answer (2009) and
body language told me the ice had the looks he wanted (date-mobile), at a
price he could afford (not a highly paid person in the affluent/expensive
Silicon-Valley, CA area).
One of my next statements was a trigger/intro into what I wanted to talk
about (EVs). I said, "Nice looking car, now if only it did not kill you on
the cost to fill it" (he nodded and agreed).
I then told him, " ... there are companies that convert performance cars
like his to performance Electrics that can compete with a Tesla ... ".
Mentioning Tesla peaked his interest, as the media has definitely let
everyone know of their EV. I mentioned Blood Shed Motors zombie222.com , and
then moved the chat back to Tesla to keep his interest for the short time
before my chat-time ran out (now was the time to leave him with one last
seed to 'cook/stew' in the back of his mind).
I then mentioned, that Tesla's performance Electric (EV) now has an 'Insane
mode' ... That really, really opened his eyes. I did not spend the time
talking about the 'Ludicrous' mode that superseded the Insane mode, as not
only was I winding down my chat to end it nicely with a smile, but much more
of the media has mentioned the 'Insane mode' than the 'Ludicrous mode' (I
will get more EV-info bang for time I am allowed before his loses interest).
The chat ended nicely, and I felt the EV-seed of interest was planted (see,
even at a gas station you can EVangelize).
He knew Tesla EVs are not cheap, so money was not his interest, performance
cars were. In that case with that person, money was not his focus. So, for
me to not tailor my chat to 'their' needs/interest would greatly reduce my
success. So, I recommend that EVangels do not 'always' talk money/costs, and
spend more time/thought in your approach of each person so they walk away
happy with the chat and you got more EV-info for them to think about.
Obviously if operating costs are their interest (which is a lot of the
time), then by all means focus on that, etc. (EVangel = do what it takes to
spark EV interest).
Next, I will post a newswire that was made on the EVent.
For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/
{brucedp.150m.com}
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Re: [EVDL] Ottawa.ca EV-Day celebrates plugins on Sparks Street
[ref
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVent-EV-ride-n-drives-EcoDistrict-EV-Day-10a-3p-8-13-Ottawa-ca-td4677130.html
EVent: EV ride-n-drives @EcoDistrict EV Day 10a-3p 8/13 Ottawa.ca
]
http://www.metronews.ca/news/ottawa/2015/08/13/electric-cars-take-the-spotlight-at-ottawa-evday.html
Ottawa EVDay celebrates electric cars on Sparks Street
By: Michael Woods Aug 12 2015
[image / Michael Woods/Metro
http://www.metronews.ca/content/dam/thestar/uploads/2015/8/13/cars.jpg
Passersby look in the empty front of a Tesla Model-S, a 100 per cent
electric car. The vehicle was on display at the corner of Sparks and
O'Connor streets as part of Ottawa EV Day, an electric vehicle test drive
and showcase organized by the Ottawa Centre EcoDistrict.
]
Electric cars had their time to shine on Sparks Street Thursday, with some
even available for a test drive.
Ryan Spears is used to people staring at his Tesla Model-S. He really
doesn’t mind.
“People that own these cars really don’t mind talking about them. It’s part
of the ownership,” he said. “I love talking about the car.”
The Ottawa software engineer got the chance to talk a lot about his 100 per
cent electric sports car Thursday afternoon. It was on display at Sparks and
O’Connor streets as part of EVDay, an electric vehicle test drive and
showcase.
A major talking point was the open hood, which revealed nothing but empty
storage space and a spot for windshield wiper fluid.
Spears was an early Tesla adopter; he bought the car in March 2013. It gets
450 kilometres per charge, so he only ever has to plug it in at home – as he
calls it, “a cell phone on wheels.”
“I wouldn’t go back to paying for gas. When you don’t have to think about
putting gas in your car you get up every day, you just get up and drive,” he
said.
The Tesla Model-S starts at just over $94,000, but there were plenty more
affordable options on display along Sparks Street as part of EVDay,
organized by the Ottawa Centre EcoDistrict along with the Electric Vehicle
Council of Ottawa.
There were also electric cars on O’Connor Street ready to be test-driven by
anyone with a driver’s licence.
Drivers could choose between the Mistubishi i-MiEV and the BMW i3, which are
100 per cent electric cars, and plug-in hybrids Ford C-Max Energi and
Chevrolet Volt.
“The big thing about electric vehicles is they’re really cool to drive,”
said Ron Groves of Plug n Drive, a Toronto-based non-profit that promotes
the adoption of electric cars. “They’re a much different, more pleasurable
experience than a regular gas-powered car.”
[© metronews.ca]
...
http://evco.ca/
Electric Vehicle Council of Ottawa
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Darryl+McMahon%22+electric&tbm=isch
For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/
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[EVDL] EVLN: BMW i3 EV A/C Compressor Noise> Yes, That’s Normal
http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/08/11/bmw-i3-ac-compressor-noise-yes-thats-normal/
BMW i3 A/C Compressor Noise: Yes, That’s Normal
August 11th, 2015 by Tom Moloughney
[images
http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/bmw-i3-repair-process-15-750x500.jpg
bmw i3 repair process
http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/bmw-i3-repair-process-25-750x500.jpg
]
Now that dog days of summer are upon us, I’ve noticed quite a few i3 owners
popping up on social media sites like the i3 Facebook Group, the MyBMWi3
Forum and the BMW i Circuit Forum asking if the loud noise they hear coming
from under their car is normal. Like all EVs, the i3 is very quiet most of
the time so when you hear a loud noise coming from the vehicle which you’ve
never heard before, it’s understandable to assume there may be something
wrong.
However in this case there is nothing to worry about. The loud noise you
hear when you park the car or when you plug in to charge is just the air
conditioning compressor running. The car’s thermal management system is
working to cool off the batteries. Keeping the batteries cool is vital to
prolonging their life, and preventing early capacity loss.
Some early Nissan LEAF owners who lived in warm weather climates experienced
unacceptable battery capacity loss and actually sued Nissan over it. The
LEAF uses a passive thermal management system which doesn’t actively cool
the batteries like most modern EVs do, and in extreme cases the batteries
were damaged from the heat. There are different types of systems used in
today’s EVs, and the i3s is likely the best one out there. The thermal
management system is just another reason the i3 has been called the most
advanced vehicle on the planet.
The i3 has a sophisticated thermal management system which uses R134a
refrigerant to cool the batteries. It’s actually the only EV to employ this
type of battery cooling method. Some electric vehicles from other
manufacturers use fans to blow air across the batteries to cool them, while
other more advanced systems use a liquid based thermal management system.
Liquid based systems work well, but they use more energy than the i3’s
system does, and using an inert gas is also the safest way to cool the
battery. If the i3’s battery pack is somehow compromised, the gas will
simply and harmlessly dissipate. One potential problem of liquid based
thermal management systems is in the rare case of a catastrophic rupture of
the battery pack, the liquid could act as an accelerant if the battery has a
fire, spreading the fire to other parts of the pack. I don’t see this as a
serious flaw in liquid based thermal management systems, and I’d feel
perfectly safe driving or owning an EV which had one. It’s just that I
believe the i3’s TMS is simply better than the competition’s.
[© bmwblog.com]
http://bmwi3.blogspot.com/2015/08/bmw-i3-ac-compressor-noise-yes-thats.html
August 11, 2015
BMW i3 A/C Compressor Noise: Yes, That's Normal...
[video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbqrW1Jehwk
BMW i3 thermal management system noise
Tom Moloughney Aug 11, 2015
The AC compressor and fan can be loud while charging your BMW i3. This is
normal, though. I made this video to demonstrate how the TMS sounds while
charging in warm temperatures. From time to time it can even be louder but
there is no need for concern, it is normal.
Turn the volume up to hear the A/C compressor at work
]
For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/
{brucedp.150m.com}
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[EVDL] EVLN: Venturini's 500e, Loueege, delivers mountainous Meals-on-Wheels
http://alpenhornnews.com/reduce-your-carbon-footprint-with-an-electric-car-p6254-149.htm
Reduce your carbon footprint with an electric car
Aug 06, 2015 By Rhea-Frances Tetley
[image
http://alpenhornnews.com/clients/alpenhornnews/8-7-2015-3-07-45-PM-6904656.gif
(Peter and Loueege)
]
It’s always wonderful when personal recommendations for sustainable ways of
living save you money as in a car purchase. Here on the mountain, we have
different requirements with our hilly, curvy roads and snow than city
drivers.
Meet “Loueege” (as identified on its personalized plates), a Fiat 500E
driven by the Venturini family, named after “Luigi,” the Fiat in the Cars
movie.
Peter Venturini proudly told The Alpenhorn News all the advantages of
driving his newest set of wheels and he should know having retired from the
Air Resources Board. He loves his little runabout. “It’s perfect for the
mountains and quick and fun to drive,” he said noting that his children also
drive electric vehicles. Loueege has a low center of gravity and accelerates
quickly with more than enough power to handle any slope with its 111
horsepower, 100 percent electric powertrain. The electric-drive motor has a
lithium-ion 24-kWh battery pack and a power inverter to manage the power
flow and single-speed transmission with calibrated gear reduction. The
battery has an eight-year warranty and the engine components have four-year
warranties.
Peter and Loueege are a Meals-on-Wheels driving team, which minimizes
delivery expenses. “I use the ‘slow-charge’ 110-volt system, so I didn’t add
220 volts to my garage. At 110 volts, it takes 24 hours for a complete
charge. However, I have never needed a complete charge; I always plug it in
at night, so it’s fully charged at the start of each day.” The onboard
computer dash display describes percentage of charge left on the mountain,
generally 70 percent. “I am getting well over 100 equivalent miles per
gallon.” The manufacturer claims 122-MPG equivalent in the city and 108-MPG
equivalent on the highway. He knows he is saving money by not using his
other cars.
Fiat claims the range is 80 miles, however Venturini doesn’t hesitate to go
to Big Bear or Redlands and back on a single charge. The regenerative
braking makes the actual range longer since Loueege is recharging whenever
using the brakes or not accelerating. There are 13 re-charging stations in
the San Bernardino - Redlands area.
“We find Loueege perfect for mountain use. I am constantly getting thumbs up
and cute car comments. It gets people's attention. Front seats are very
comfortable. The rear seats are small fold-downs, so I typically use the
abundant space for things like groceries.
“The fact that it is front wheel drive gives it good traction. However, one
would need chains and snow tires in the winter.”
[© alpenhornnews.com]
...
http://pixar.wikia.com/wiki/Luigi
Luigi, the Fiat 500-ice in the Cars movie
http://cars.disney.com/luigi
...
http://www.fiat500owners.com/forum/66-fiat-500e/
Fiat 500e EV Forums
http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/forumdisplay.php?94-Fiat-500E-Charging
...
http://www.evsolutions.com/turbocord
FIAT 500e c:6.3h@L2-3kW,23h@L1
...
http://www.fiatusa.com/en/500e/
2015 FIAT 500e
...
http://www.carsdirect.com/fiat/500e
500e offered new in California or Oregon only
From $29,256 Up to $2,500 in rebates
...
http://www.autoblog.com/used-list/make1-Fiat/model1-500e/location-93650/fuel-Electric/range-12500
(examples: new 2015 500E $16,999 | used 2014 500E $15,518)
...
http://fiat.niello.com/lease-specials.php?EnforceDesktop=true
$99/mo 36mo-lease, 500e EV (Sacramento-CA)
For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/
http://insideevs.com/delaware-now-offers-2200-plug-electric-car-rebate-500-evse-incentive/
Delaware Now Offers $2,200 EV Rebate + $500 EVSE Incentive
http://dcourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1086&ArticleID=148441
$1.50hr Dual L2 CT4000 EVSE @Marriott SpringHill Suites Prescott-AZ
+
EVLN: LG&3M NCM_li-ion patent deal, Audi's 311mi LG&Samsung pack
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[EVDL] EVLN: LG Chem&3M NCM_li-ion patent deal, Audi's 311mi LG&Samsung pack
http://www.greentechlead.com/electric-vehicle/lg-chem-3m-sign-patent-deal-for-development-of-ncm-li-ion-batteries-27414
LG Chem, 3M sign patent deal for development of NCM li-ion batteries
By Ajith Kumar S August 12, 2015
LG Chem and 3M have signed a patent deal for the continued development of
NCM (nickel, cobalt, manganese) lithium-ion batteries.
Through the agreement LG Chem hopes to develop improved electric car
batteries. According to a statement, LG Chem will work on developing the
next generation electric car battery with NCM cathodes.
“The agreement makes way for 3M to license LG Chem to a number of US patents
as well as all global equivalents which include South Korea, Taiwan, Japan,
China and Europe. The patents relate to the use of NCM in lithium-ion
batteries,” the statement says.
Thus far, LG Chem has been producing lithium-ion batteries based on
manganese spinel chemistry for automobile companies including Chevy, Ford,
Hyundai and Renault.
Earlier this year, the company bagged a deal with Daimler for battery supply
for the new range of Smart electric vehicles.
[© greentechlead.com]
...
http://www.pv-magazine.com/news/details/beitrag/lg-plans-to-develop-next-generation-ev-batteries-_100020578/#axzz3ifWn61dd
LG plans to develop next-generation EV batteries
12. August 2015 | By: Shamsiah Ali-Oettinger
3M and South Korean LG Chem have signed a patent deal for the continued
development of NCM (nickel, cobalt, manganese) lithium-ion batteries. LG
Chem hopes to develop improved electric car batteries with the acquired
patent knowledge.
...
http://gas2.org/2015/08/12/3m-licenses-new-cathode-technology-lg-chem/
3M Licenses New Cathode Technology to LG Chem
2015-08-11 LG Chem plans to use the new cathode technology to manufacture
an affordable electric car battery with a 200-mile driving range by 2017.
http://www.carscoops.com/2015/08/lg-chem-and-samsung-sdi-will-build.html
LG Chem And Samsung SDI Will Build Batteries For Audi's Electric ...
2015-08-13 “We will optimally integrate the innovative cell modules
developed with LG Chem and Samsung SDI into our vehicle architecture, thus
achieving an attractive ...
...
http://www.bulletinleader.com/audi-developing-311-mile-battery/26921/
Audi developing 311-mile battery
2015-08-13 “Being a partner with Audi for its new and innovative electric
vehicle project means to us that our leadership in EV battery technology has
been recognized”, ...
...
http://www.auto123.com/en/news/audi-lg-samsung-electric-car/61112/
Audi, LG and Samsung collaborate on a new powerful battery
2015-08-13 Batteries for the R8 e-tron, a fully electric car ...
...
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2015/08/133_184623.html
LG plans to halve battery prices for EVs
2015-08-11
...
http://cleantechnica.com/2015/08/03/volkswagen-choses-lg-electronics-high-voltage-battery-supplier-fast-initiative/
VW Chooses LG As plugin Battery Supplier
August 3rd, 2015
For EVLN posts use:
http://evdl.org/evln/
http://insideevs.com/delaware-now-offers-2200-plug-electric-car-rebate-500-evse-incentive/
Delaware Now Offers $2,200 EV Rebate + $500 EVSE Incentive
http://dcourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1086&ArticleID=148441
$1.50hr Dual L2 CT4000 EVSE @Marriott SpringHill Suites Prescott-AZ
+
EVLN: Venturini's 500e EV, Loueege, delivers mountain Meals-on-Wheels
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[EVDL] EVent: Plugins sought4 NDEW @Paseo Arts Dist. 12n-4p 9/12 OK_City-OK
'Oil worker organizing & seeking plugins for the 1&only OK NDEW EVent' http://www.autoblog.com/2015/08/11/oil-worker-organizing-only-drive-electric-week-event-in-ok/ Oil worker organizing only Drive Electric Week event in OK Aug 11th 2015 Chris Bruce [video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muSPHdfJ4JA National Drive Electric Week, coming to Oklahoma Go Star Energy Jul 10, 2015 I am a Libertarian Oil field work and I know that Electric cars is the future for the consumer, #NDLW15 is coming to the heart of oil field country Oklahoma City, OK ] As of right now, there's only a single event scheduled in Oklahoma for the upcoming National Drive Electric Week from September 12 to 20, and it's not being organized by a big EV club or a local dealer. Instead, John Gallagher, who makes a living hauling oil by semi to a pipeline, is coordinating the gathering. That task isn't easy, though, and in his promo video he asks for a little help from some very high places. Gallagher's get-together is being held September 12 from noon to 4:00 PM local time at the Paseo Arts District in Oklahoma City, OK. However as he explains in the video, Oklahoma is the "heart of oil country," and EVs aren't exactly common there. Therefore, he's hoping that people from surrounding states could make the trek to the get-together. So far, his gathering has 14 cars registered to attend, including five Nissan Leafs and a Tesla Model S. Gallagher even implores Elon Musk to send over a Tesla Model X and Mary Barra to deliver a new Chevrolet Volt. While the chances are slim, either company would probably get some easy positive PR for taking Gallagher up on the offer. The people behind National Drive Electric Week are certainly supporting the cause too. "John believes it's time to stop preaching to the choir, and we agree with him," said event co-founder Zan Dubin-Scott while promoting the Oklahoma City event. There are hundreds of EV celebrations taking place around North America during those seven days, so even if you can't make it to Oklahoma, there's likely one nearby. [PR] OIL FIELD WORKER ORGANIZES THE FIRST NATIONAL DRIVE ELECTRIC WEEK EVENT IN 'THE HEART OF OIL COUNTRY' Event will be held on Sept. 12 at an art colony next to two of America's largest oil producers ELK CITY, OK, July 31, 2015—Oklahoma resident John Gallagher has become the first oil-field worker to organize a National Drive Electric Week event. Gallagher, who hauls oil in his 18-wheeler from a local well site to a major pipeline, is staging his event at a local art colony near two of the country's leading oil production companies, Continental Resources and Devon Energy, among others. He's never seen an EV in Western Oklahoma, "the heart of oil country," as he calls it, and doesn't own an EV. But everything changed when he saw "Revenge of the Electric Car" (directed by Chris Paine) and he has become an ardent advocate for plug-in vehicles. In this short promo he produced about his event, he calls on Tesla Motors CEO Elon Musk and GM CEO Mary Barra to bring their newest plug-ins to his event, one of dozens planned coast-to-coast for the fifth anniversary of National Drive Electric Week, Sept. 12-20, 2015. He urges other cities that aren't participating in the national observance, and where plug-ins are rare, to get on board. "John believes it's time to stop preaching to the choir, and we agree with him," said Drive Electric Week co-founder and Plug In America spokesperson Zan Dubin-Scott, "which is why we are so excited to see his event in Oklahoma City setting such a great example. We share John's hope that Elon Musk, Mary Barra and other automakers' CEOs will send their newest EVs to Oklahoma City to let all of America know about the vehicles that John says are 'just better.' " Says Gallagher in his video: "It's not about being anti-oil, it's about, this is the future, this is just better." He explained to Plug In America that better means better for the consumer who no longer has to hassle with oil changes and other maintenance or going to the gas station. They get to charge at home, instead. National Drive Electric Week is based on the idea that nothing beats ride-and-drives in clean, quiet and powerful plug-in vehicles for converting gasoline-car drivers to EV owners. The event, designed to showcase the fun, cost-savings and clean-air benefits of plug-in vehicles, was launched in 2011 in 29 cities, growing to more than 150 cities in the U.S. and abroad in 2014. Plug In America, the Sierra Club and the Electric Auto Association team up with local groups to organize events, which typically feature all-electric and plug-in hybrid electric cars from every automaker on the market. Nissan and its all-electric LEAF have served as the event's exclusive automotive sponsor since 2013. ClipperCreek is another national sponsor. National Drive Electric Week will take place Sept. 12 through 20. To organize or attend an event, visit https://driveelectricweek.org/events.ph
Re: [EVDL] EVent: EV ride-n-drives @EcoDistrict EV Day
Wow, 35 years, you have perseverance! I generally get 3 questions...how far? how fast? how much? They gasp, shake their head and leave after my response to the third one ($20k). They were looking for a cheap way to avoid paying for gas, thinking maybe $500.00 to convert a car I guess. I also have gotten the coal claim, which I correct, giving the power generating mix in my state, but I get the impression they don't believe it. Edward Bernays would be proud. They've been brainwashed just as he showed how to do, and businesses have spent billions doing since, summed up in this BBC special fairly well: https://vimeo.com/75776128 https://vimeo.com/75779119 https://vimeo.com/10245146 https://vimeo.com/75784765 Yes, I know, it doesn't work on YOU. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-EVent-EV-ride-n-drives-EcoDistrict-EV-Day-tp4677139p4677152.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVent: EV ride-n-drives @EcoDistrict EV Day
The important thing is to focus on the people who are interested. We're still in the early adopter stage. The main stream folks will buy EVs when everyone else is. They don't have to understand anything about them - just that it's the popular and low risk thing to do. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "tomw via EV" To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 14-Aug-15 7:26:04 AM Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVent: EV ride-n-drives @EcoDistrict EV Day Wow, 35 years, you have perseverance! I generally get 3 questions...how far? how fast? how much? They gasp, shake their head and leave after my response to the third one ($20k). They were looking for a cheap way to avoid paying for gas, thinking maybe $500.00 to convert a car I guess. I also have gotten the coal claim, which I correct, giving the power generating mix in my state, but I get the impression they don't believe it. Edward Bernays would be proud. They've been brainwashed just as he showed how to do, and businesses have spent billions doing since, summed up in this BBC special fairly well: https://vimeo.com/75776128 https://vimeo.com/75779119 https://vimeo.com/10245146 https://vimeo.com/75784765 Yes, I know, it doesn't work on YOU. -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Re-EVent-EV-ride-n-drives-EcoDistrict-EV-Day-tp4677139p4677152.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] EV facts, coal and shooting ourselves in the foot
> I also have gotten the coal claim, which I correct, > giving the power generating mix in my state, > but I get the impression they don't believe it. You may power your EV from the dirty power in your state, but studies in 2012 showed about 50% of EV owners charged their cars from 100% renewable solar or wind. Now just last week (2015) the Ford survey found that 83% of EV purchasers charge from 100% renewables or will when they can. So quoting the grid mix is doing a disservice to 83% of EV owners and is dead wrong by a factor of FIVE, because it IGNORES the fact that most of the people buying EV's are also buying 100% clean electricity. You are doing EV's a disservice by quoting the dirty grid mix. Get a show of hands in your local EV club. In ours, 2/3rds of the EV owners also have solar to charge them. It is NO COINCIDENCE that most people who buy EV's also want to do it with clean energy. Using the grid mix is damning the future by the sins of the past. Or its like saying that because 18% of Americans smoke that I have an 18% chance of dying of lung cancer (But, I don't smoke)! And even if the grid mix is 40% coal, if 83% of EV drivers charge from 100% renewables then simple math shows that the -average- percentage of coal electricity for EV drivers is then 40% * 17% or under 7%. A far cry from the "grid mix" you are quoting. Plus, the use of coal since 2008 has gone DOWN by over 20% and keeps going down! Bob, WB4APR ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV facts, coal and shooting ourselves in the foot
You may be correct, but as EVs become ubiquitous, and not just the early adopters, the % of those using solar must decline. That is, unless solar becomes significantly more ubiquitous than EVs. Better to be conservative with the numbers. (IMO, of course) Sent from my iPhone On Aug 14, 2015, at 8:13 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: >> I also have gotten the coal claim, which I correct, >> giving the power generating mix in my state, >> but I get the impression they don't believe it. > > You may power your EV from the dirty power in your state, but studies in > 2012 showed about 50% of EV owners charged their cars from 100% renewable > solar or wind. Now just last week (2015) the Ford survey found that 83% > of EV purchasers charge from 100% renewables or will when they can. > > So quoting the grid mix is doing a disservice to 83% of EV owners and is > dead wrong by a factor of FIVE, because it IGNORES the fact that most of > the people buying EV's are also buying 100% clean electricity. > > You are doing EV's a disservice by quoting the dirty grid mix. Get a show > of hands in your local EV club. In ours, 2/3rds of the EV owners also > have solar to charge them. > > It is NO COINCIDENCE that most people who buy EV's also want to do it with > clean energy. > > Using the grid mix is damning the future by the sins of the past. Or its > like saying that because 18% of Americans smoke that I have an 18% chance > of dying of lung cancer (But, I don't smoke)! > > And even if the grid mix is 40% coal, if 83% of EV drivers charge from > 100% renewables then simple math shows that the -average- percentage of > coal electricity for EV drivers is then 40% * 17% or under 7%. A far cry > from the "grid mix" you are quoting. > > Plus, the use of coal since 2008 has gone DOWN by over 20% and keeps going > down! > > Bob, WB4APR > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV facts, coal and shooting ourselves in the foot
Since it appears that the number of EVs powered by renewable energy has gone from 50 to 80% in just a few years, why do you promote to be "conservative" with the numbers? That is only doing EVs a disservice, since both EVs and solar are becoming more and more ubiquitous so much so that solar installing companies, even though they are growing fast, they will not take any jobs that are a bit more challenging since there is such a big and continuously growing market for them. So, no need to be conservative. Coal power is history. It is not because of more strict regulations (even though "the polluter pays" would have been nice for so many people suffering from the results of decades of burning coal) but simply the business case for coal is worse than for investing in clean power, so why bother? And for home owners it still pays off to go through the trouble of having solar installed on their roof, especially if charging the EV will push them into the expensive high tiers. So, almost everyone buying an EV will consider "how do I fuel it" and ends up with a cheaper solution when adding solar in the mix, so I see no reason to change the message that the vast majority of EVs run on 100% renewable. Personally I do not (yet) have solar on my home (long story) but I do use 100% renewable energy by paying a few bucks every month to Arcadia (if you are interested - feel free to use my referral: https://myenergy.arcadiapower.com/referral/by/cornelis0519 So even though I have no installation on my own home, I do get 100% green electricity for my EV. This means that even apartment dwellers can fuel their EV with green power if they choose to, obviously without the benefit of saving on their bill, it is only helping in the "I do my part in reducing my carbon footprint". Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless Corporation http://www.proxim.com Email: cwa...@proxim.comPrivate: http://www.cvandewater.info Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP: +31877841130 Tel: +1 408 383 7626Tel: +91 (040)23117400 x203 -Original Message- From: EV on behalf of Mark Abramowitz via EV Sent: Fri 8/14/2015 8:46 AM To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] EV facts, coal and shooting ourselves in the foot You may be correct, but as EVs become ubiquitous, and not just the early adopters, the % of those using solar must decline. That is, unless solar becomes significantly more ubiquitous than EVs. Better to be conservative with the numbers. (IMO, of course) Sent from my iPhone On Aug 14, 2015, at 8:13 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: >> I also have gotten the coal claim, which I correct, >> giving the power generating mix in my state, >> but I get the impression they don't believe it. > > You may power your EV from the dirty power in your state, but studies in > 2012 showed about 50% of EV owners charged their cars from 100% renewable > solar or wind. Now just last week (2015) the Ford survey found that 83% > of EV purchasers charge from 100% renewables or will when they can. > > So quoting the grid mix is doing a disservice to 83% of EV owners and is > dead wrong by a factor of FIVE, because it IGNORES the fact that most of > the people buying EV's are also buying 100% clean electricity. > > You are doing EV's a disservice by quoting the dirty grid mix. Get a show > of hands in your local EV club. In ours, 2/3rds of the EV owners also > have solar to charge them. > > It is NO COINCIDENCE that most people who buy EV's also want to do it with > clean energy. > > Using the grid mix is damning the future by the sins of the past. Or its > like saying that because 18% of Americans smoke that I have an 18% chance > of dying of lung cancer (But, I don't smoke)! > > And even if the grid mix is 40% coal, if 83% of EV drivers charge from > 100% renewables then simple math shows that the -average- percentage of > coal electricity for EV drivers is then 40% * 17% or under 7%. A far cry > from the "grid mix" you are quoting. > > Plus, the use of coal since 2008 has gone DOWN by over 20% and keeps going > down! > > Bob, WB4APR > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV facts, coal and shooting ourselves in the foot
On Aug 14, 2015, at 1:00 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: > Coal power is history. It is not > because of more strict regulations (even though "the polluter pays" would > have been nice for so many people suffering from the results of decades of > burning coal) but simply the business case for coal is worse than for > investing in clean power, so why bother? So long as the coal miners and power plant operators have the option to socialize the costs of pollution from their operations whilst maintaining the private capitalization of the profits, coal continues to be the cheapest utility-scale power generation option. But, especially with Tesla's recent utility-scale battery announcements, utility-scale solar is now, at least on paper, cheaper than everything else other than dirty coal. It will take some time for everything to ramp up, but there's no longer a business case for utilities for new construction of anything other than dirty coal, solar, and quick-response peaking supplement plants. And it won't be that much longer before dirty coal loses out to solar, as well, from two fronts: first, because of increasing political pressure to stop subsidizing the private profits from public pollution from dirty coal; and, much more importantly, because solar is continuing to get cheaper whilst coal, even dirty coal, is on an irreversible upward price trend. Even once the solar and dirty coal price graphs cross, we'll still be stuck with all the existing facilities. It'll be much, much longer before it'll be cheaper to build a new solar plant and decommission an existing coal (or nuclear or gas or whatever) one still in good condition. But these facilities have limited lifetimes, so we're essentially now approaching the upper limit for the total number of non-solar power production facilities humanity will ever have. Utilities are especially paranoid about solar, though, because it's so cheap that you can put it on your own rooftop at a price competitive with grid-sourced non-solar power production. Your grid connection comes with a lot of overhead rooftop solar doesn't, including capital and maintenance for the power plants and transmission facilities and all the salaries and what-not; rooftop solar just needs the initial capital expense and damned little else, meaning you pocket all the difference, even if you have to front the capital yourself. Finance the capital the same way you finance the capital for the house itself or a car, and the utilities don't have much left to compete on. As such, there's a lot of incentive to defect from the grid...and every such defection drives up the average per-customer cost fro those left, creating an ever-increasing spiral of incentive to defect from the grid. As such, I predict that we'll eventually see coal plants shutting down because their operat ors have been put out of business by rooftop solar. Cheers, b& ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV facts, coal and shooting ourselves in the foot
What is often overlooked is that as EV grow in popularity, electricity saving devices also become more popular. I think the two trends may balance out the total home electricity use, at least to some extent. LED light bulbs, energy efficient TV's (remember CRT's and projection type big screens?) energy efficient appliances, better home insulation, heat-pumps, etc. all act to reduce our electrical use. EV's will become more popular, and will cause residential electrical consumption to increase, but that increase will be offset, perhaps in large part, by reductions in electricity consumption due to the purchase of more efficient appliances, lights, heating, etc. It is important to look at the entire "advances in technology" landscape, rather than one small piece in isolation. Bill Dube' ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV facts, coal and shooting ourselves in the foot
Even though we have cheap gasoline for now, the replacement cost is in the $3 to $4 a gallon range using for example, Bakken and Eagle Ford shale oil at a breakeven price of $60 to$ 80+ per barrel. If electric rates are near $0.10/kwhr, then it cost about $1.00 to go 30 miles whereas an ICE cost about $3 to $4 in gasoline. The difference can pay off either a PV array faster or be put toward making an EV competitive with an ICE on a fuel plus maintenance plus battery pack basis. I think we may see a large uptake with 2017 models EVs with purported 200 mile ranges or so. On 8/14/2015 11:46 AM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: You may be correct, but as EVs become ubiquitous, and not just the early adopters, the % of those using solar must decline. That is, unless solar becomes significantly more ubiquitous than EVs. Better to be conservative with the numbers. (IMO, of course) Sent from my iPhone On Aug 14, 2015, at 8:13 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: I also have gotten the coal claim, which I correct, giving the power generating mix in my state, but I get the impression they don't believe it. You may power your EV from the dirty power in your state, but studies in 2012 showed about 50% of EV owners charged their cars from 100% renewable solar or wind. Now just last week (2015) the Ford survey found that 83% of EV purchasers charge from 100% renewables or will when they can. So quoting the grid mix is doing a disservice to 83% of EV owners and is dead wrong by a factor of FIVE, because it IGNORES the fact that most of the people buying EV's are also buying 100% clean electricity. You are doing EV's a disservice by quoting the dirty grid mix. Get a show of hands in your local EV club. In ours, 2/3rds of the EV owners also have solar to charge them. It is NO COINCIDENCE that most people who buy EV's also want to do it with clean energy. Using the grid mix is damning the future by the sins of the past. Or its like saying that because 18% of Americans smoke that I have an 18% chance of dying of lung cancer (But, I don't smoke)! And even if the grid mix is 40% coal, if 83% of EV drivers charge from 100% renewables then simple math shows that the -average- percentage of coal electricity for EV drivers is then 40% * 17% or under 7%. A far cry from the "grid mix" you are quoting. Plus, the use of coal since 2008 has gone DOWN by over 20% and keeps going down! Bob, WB4APR ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV facts, coal and shooting ourselves in the foot
On Aug 14, 2015, at 1:32 PM, Ben Goren via EV wrote: > > there's no longer a business case for utilities for new construction of > anything other than dirty coal, Coal is dead in this country already. Name the last new coal plant announced. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
