[EVDL] Echo-Voyager untethered> like a 7.5mpg undersea-Volt (upih) i-r:7500mi (v)
'It makes the ocean that much less of a pain in the ass to explore' % Video has a good presentation % [dated] https://www.wired.com/2016/03/boeings-monstrous-underwater-robot-can-wander-ocean-6-months/ Boeing’s Monstrous Underwater Robot Can Wander the Ocean for 6 Months 03.21.16 ALEX DAVIES [images / BOEING https://assets.wired.com/photos/w_730/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/SEF16-00934-001_2.jpg Boeing's 51-foot long Echo Voyager can spend six months at a time wandering the ocean https://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/SEF16-01077-065-582x387.jpg The Voyager’s 7,500 mile range is enough to go from San Francisco to Hong Kong ] AS FAR AS locales go, the bottom of the ocean is a particularly exasperating place to explore. Anyone or anything you send down there has to contend with the dark, with thousands of pounds of pressure on every square inch, with the inability to replenish fuel supplies without returning to the mother ship. In recent years, unmanned undersea vehicles (UUVs) have improved the situation, eliminating the need to send a human down below, or to attach an unmanned vessel to a surface ship with a long umbilical cord. Those include Boeing’s Echo Ranger and Echo Seeker underwater robots, which can spend a few days at at time below the surface, with ranges measured in the tens or hundreds of miles. That’s progress, but it’s not enough to emancipate the UUV from the need for a nearby surface ship with a human crew, which piles on costs. Those UUV’s are “nothing more than an extension, or an application of the surface ship,” says Lance Towers, who carries the impressively potent title of director of sea and land at Phantom Works, Boeing’s R&D arm. They were just one step better than leaning over the ship’s railing to peer into the briny deep. “We said, we need to come up with a capability that allows us to operate an autonomous underwater vehicle that does not require a surface ship,” Towers says. That was in 2011. Now, Boeing’s showing off the product of that decision. The Echo Voyager can spend six months at a time exploring the deep sea, with a 7,500-mile range, no ship needed. Structurally, the 51-foot Voyager’s not too different from its little brothers, the 32-foot Seeker and 18-foot Ranger. The big difference is the introduction of the hybrid rechargeable power system. Like Boeing’s other UUVs, the 50-ton Voyager runs on lithium-ion or silver zinc batteries that power it for a few days at a time. But instead of scooting over to a ship any time it’s running low on power, the Voyager just fires up a diesel generator that recharges the batteries. (It only turns on the generator at the surface, so the exhaust can be piped into the air). The Voyager works like a Chevy Volt, if the Volt carried a thousand gallons of fuel and could drive from San Francisco to Hong Kong without hitting a gas station. (The Volt is more fuel efficient, though—battling water resistance, the Voyager goes just 7.5 miles per gallon.) Boeing says customers could use the Voyager to inspect underwater infrastructure, take water samples, create bathymetric maps of the ocean floor, or help with oil and gas exploration. The UUV can link up with satellites to send data back to its land-dwelling bosses, and uses standard commercial interfaces, so clients don’t have to adapt their equipment or software to use it. And because it will spend so much time wandering on its own, the Voyager’s packed with redundant systems and backups, Towers says, which partly accounts for its size. The Voyager, which will be capable of operating under 11,000 feet of water, has already spent time testing in Boeing’s 35-foot deep pool in Huntington Beach, California, and will start sea trials off the California coast this summer. Boeing hasn’t revealed its price, or when it will be commercially available. But whenever it’s ready to strike out on its own, it’ll make the ocean that much less of a pain in the ass to explore. [© Condé Nast] http://www.electricvehiclesresearch.com/articles/9242/unmanned-undersea-vehicle-can-operate-autonomously-for-months Unmanned undersea vehicle can operate autonomously for months March 29, 2016 ... "Echo Voyager can collect data while at sea, rise to the surface, and provide information back to users in a near real-time environment," said Lance Towers, director, Sea & Land, Boeing Phantom Works. "Existing UUVs require a surface ship and crew for day-to-day operations. Echo Voyager eliminates that need and associated costs." ... [video https://youtu.be/L9vPxC-qucw Boeing’s Echo Voyager: Welcome to the Family Boeing Mar 10, 2016 Echo Voyager, Boeing’s latest unmanned undersea vehicle (UUV), can operate autonomously for months at a time thanks to a hybrid rechargeable power system and modular payload bay. The 51-foot-long vehicle is the latest innovation in Boeing’s UUV family, joining the 32-foot Echo Seeker and the 18-foot Echo Ranger. ] For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: http://evdl.org/evln/
[EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20160901
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Shanghai-cn-stop-for-the-Dutch-80day-world-tour-Electric-motorbike-team-td4683910.html EVLN: Shanghai.cn stop for the Dutch 80day world tour Electric motorbike team A group of Dutch students have arrived in Shanghai on a world tour within 80 days aiming to demonstrate what electric motorbikes are capable of achieving ... http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-Garlits-200mph-Swamp-Rat-VI-1-4mi-e-dragster-gt-Forget-about-cheap-e-commuting-td4683911.html EVLN: Garlits’ 200mph Swamp Rat VI 1/4mi e-dragster> Forget about cheap e-commuting Trying for a 200-mph quarter mile in an electric dragster An organization called the National Electric Drag Racing Association (NEDRA) documents the various electric vehicle categories and race records on its website ... http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-2016-Tesla-S-Electric-GT-Championship-racing-v-td4683912.html EVLN: 2016 Tesla-S Electric GT Championship racing (v) Tesla Model S race car revealed for Electric GT series Earlier this year, a group called Electric GT Holdings announced plans for a race series exclusively for the Tesla Model S electric car ... + http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Echo-Voyager-untethered-gt-like-a-7-5mpg-undersea-Volt-upih-i-r-7500mi-v-td4683914.html Echo-Voyager untethered> like a 7.5mpg undersea-Volt (upih) i-r:7500mi (v) Boeing's ... Underwater Robot Can Wander the Ocean ... collecting data ... Voyager can spend six months at sea by itself, with 7500 miles of range ... http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Peugeot-iOn-EV-Euro-iMiev-has-2-bad-cells-gt-Repair-covered-by-the-warranty-td4683904.html Peugeot iOn EV(Euro-iMiev) has 2 bad cells> ?Repair covered by the warranty? Electric vehicle battery warranty I recently bought a Peugot Ion electric vehicle, 3 years old but with very low mileage. I am generally delighted with the car but disappointed with the … (2 bad cells) http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/A-fun-amp-easily-digestible-pics-amp-video-of-an-iOn-iMiev-adventure-td4683913.html A fun & easily digestible pics& video of an iOn(iMiev) adventure http://evdl.org/evln/ For all EVLN EV-newswire posts {brucedp.0catch.com} -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-EV-newswire-posts-for-20160901-tp4683915.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Echo-Voyager untethered> like a 7.5mpg undersea-Volt (upih) i-r:7500mi (v)
nths [http://idtxs3.imgix.net/images/v5/articles/raw/main9242.jpg?w=800]<http://www.electricvehiclesresearch.com/articles/9242/unmanned-undersea-vehicle-can-operate-autonomously-for-months> Unmanned undersea vehicle can operate autonomously for ...<http://www.electricvehiclesresearch.com/articles/9242/unmanned-undersea-vehicle-can-operate-autonomously-for-months> www.electricvehiclesresearch.com Boeing has introduced Echo Voyager, its latest unmanned, undersea vehicle, which can operate autonomously for months at a time thanks to a hybrid rechargeable power ... Unmanned undersea vehicle can operate autonomously for months March 29, 2016 ... "Echo Voyager can collect data while at sea, rise to the surface, and provide information back to users in a near real-time environment," said Lance Towers, director, Sea & Land, Boeing Phantom Works. "Existing UUVs require a surface ship and crew for day-to-day operations. Echo Voyager eliminates that need and associated costs." ... [video https://youtu.be/L9vPxC-qucw [https://i.ytimg.com/vi/L9vPxC-qucw/maxresdefault.jpg]<https://youtu.be/L9vPxC-qucw> Boeing’s Echo Voyager: Welcome to the Family<https://youtu.be/L9vPxC-qucw> youtu.be Echo Voyager, Boeing’s latest unmanned undersea vehicle (UUV), can operate autonomously for months at a time thanks to a hybrid rechargeable power system and... Boeing’s Echo Voyager: Welcome to the Family Boeing Mar 10, 2016 Echo Voyager, Boeing’s latest unmanned undersea vehicle (UUV), can operate autonomously for months at a time thanks to a hybrid rechargeable power system and modular payload bay. The 51-foot-long vehicle is the latest innovation in Boeing’s UUV family, joining the 32-foot Echo Seeker and the 18-foot Echo Ranger. ] For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: http://evdl.org/evln/ EVDL EV News Archive - Electric Vehicle Discussion List<http://evdl.org/evln/> evdl.org EVLN - EV News Archive Edited by Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter: EVLN: home | help | archive | news | privacy policy | terms of service {brucedp.0catch.com} -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Echo-Voyager-untethered-like-a-7-5mpg-undersea-Volt-upih-i-r-7500mi-v-tp4683914.html Electric Vehicle Discussion List - Echo-Voyager untethered> like a 7.5mpg undersea-Volt (upih) i-r:7500mi (v)<http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Echo-Voyager-untethered-like-a-7-5mpg-undersea-Volt-upih-i-r-7500mi-v-tp4683914.html> electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com Echo-Voyager untethered> like a 7.5mpg undersea-Volt (upih) i-r:7500mi (v). 'It makes the ocean that much less of a pain in the ass to explore' % Video has a good presentation... Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org EV -- Electric Vehicle Discussion List - lists.evdl.org ...<http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org> lists.evdl.org The Electric Vehicle Discussion List is a forum for discussing the current state of the art and future direction of electric vehicles (EVs). We define an EV as a ... Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ EVDL EV News Archive - Electric Vehicle Discussion List<http://evdl.org/evln/> evdl.org EVLN - EV News Archive Edited by Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter: EVLN: home | help | archive | news | privacy policy | terms of service Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) [https://s1.yimg.com/dh/ap/default/130909/y_200_a.png]<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA> Yahoo! Groups<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA> groups.yahoo.com / [https://assets.wired.com/photos/w_730/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/SEF16-00934-001_2.jpg] [https://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/SEF16-01077-065-582x387.jpg] -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161001/fc1285eb/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Echo-Voyager untethered> like a 7.5mpg undersea-Volt (upih) i-r:7500mi (v)
the Family Boeing Mar 10, 2016 Echo Voyager, Boeing’s latest unmanned undersea vehicle (UUV), can operate autonomously for months at a time thanks to a hybrid rechargeable power system and modular payload bay. The 51-foot-long vehicle is the latest innovation in Boeing’s UUV family, joining the 32-foot Echo Seeker and the 18-foot Echo Ranger. ] For EVLN EV-newswire posts use: http://evdl.org/evln/ {brucedp.0catch.com} -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Echo-Voyager-untethered-like-a-7-5mpg-undersea-Volt-upih-i-r-7500mi-v-tp4683914.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161001/6b0ce361/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] convert a mercedes
ev Hello, I'm new to the ev world. Originally I was planning on converting a manual drive Jetta with a pretty standard package- I was confident that everything would be fine, but. then I saw a beautiful Mercedes (I was in love) at a great price that my wife wouldn't mind driving, and I came up with a plan; but I don't know exactly how feasible my plan is. Here is what I am thinking: -The drive shaft will be removed and an AC 75 installed directly to the rear differential (the car weighs about 3500 pounds). -The transmission will be removed. -A generator will be connected to the engine and will engage when the power drops below a certain range. The air conditioning, power steering, alternator and other things will stay as they are. The engine will run at all times when the car is driven, but just at idle speed. The idle could even be drastically reduced with some modification. -The acceptable range is about 30 miles with lead acid batteries. -This vehicle will be somewhat of a hybrid. Please let me know your opinions. Thank you! Gerald -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/convert-a-mercedes-tp4683917.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] convert a mercedes
I think y ou need to seriously do some math on the energy needes and sources It makes no sense to keep the engine AND add a generator AND add a thousand lbs of batteries and still keep the engine running and burning fossil fuel. What's the point? Bob On Sat, Oct 1, 2016 at 2:42 PM, Gerald via EV wrote: > ev > > Hello, > I'm new to the ev world. > Originally I was planning on converting a manual drive Jetta with a pretty > standard package- I was confident that everything would be fine, but. > then I saw a beautiful Mercedes (I was in love) at a great price that my > wife wouldn't mind driving, and I came up with a plan; but I don't know > exactly how feasible my plan is. Here is what I am thinking: > > -The drive shaft will be removed and an AC 75 installed directly to the > rear > differential (the car weighs about 3500 pounds). > -The transmission will be removed. > -A generator will be connected to the engine and will engage when the power > drops below a certain range. > The air conditioning, power steering, alternator and other things will stay > as they are. The engine will run at all times when the car is driven, but > just at idle speed. The idle could even be drastically reduced with some > modification. > -The acceptable range is about 30 miles with lead acid batteries. > -This vehicle will be somewhat of a hybrid. > > Please let me know your opinions. > > Thank you! > > Gerald > > -- > View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle- > discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/convert-a-mercedes-tp4683917.html > Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > ___ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ > Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/ > group/NEDRA) > > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161001/2fdbd569/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] convert a mercedes
You might think about whether you really want to keep the engine and add a generator. Things to consider: - the overall weight, including the battery, will exceed the manufacturer's GVW. - it will take more space to hold all those components, compromising the cabin. - it will use fuel, even if you have ample energy in the battery. - it needs a generator (or could you use the existing alternator?) - it will be more complicated to maintain. If you really need the extended range, you could do better with a much smaller genset that turns on only when your battery starts to get low. And you gain the space occupied by the motor and the fuel tank. Of course the tradeoff will be more expense: - new genset, - new small electric motor to run belt driven components (or replace them, too) Peri -- Original Message -- From: "Gerald via EV" To: ev@lists.evdl.org Sent: 01-Oct-16 11:42:02 AM Subject: [EVDL] convert a mercedes ev Hello, I'm new to the ev world. Originally I was planning on converting a manual drive Jetta with a pretty standard package- I was confident that everything would be fine, but. then I saw a beautiful Mercedes (I was in love) at a great price that my wife wouldn't mind driving, and I came up with a plan; but I don't know exactly how feasible my plan is. Here is what I am thinking: -The drive shaft will be removed and an AC 75 installed directly to the rear differential (the car weighs about 3500 pounds). -The transmission will be removed. -A generator will be connected to the engine and will engage when the power drops below a certain range. The air conditioning, power steering, alternator and other things will stay as they are. The engine will run at all times when the car is driven, but just at idle speed. The idle could even be drastically reduced with some modification. -The acceptable range is about 30 miles with lead acid batteries. -This vehicle will be somewhat of a hybrid. Please let me know your opinions. Thank you! Gerald -- View this message in context: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/convert-a-mercedes-tp4683917.html Sent from the Electric Vehicle Discussion List mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Test message
Sorry for the intrusion. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Compressed Air
On 30 Sep 2016 at 19:44, Michael Ross via EV wrote: > Can we discuss compressed air a a storage medium that can spin > electric motors in autos and trucks? Maybe, but I don't see how air can power a motor. We've had posts on compressed air cars before - check the archive - but those aren't EVs. See Wikipedia for a decent article on compressed air cars that explains why they've never made the big time despite nearly a century of tinkering witih the concept. The problems are low efficiency and an energy density by volume that's worse than lead batteries. > Certain elements can be reformatted to higher energy states and then > reacted to power EV's. Isn't this how batteries work? > There is a particular reaction that could be used to store energy from > sustainable, but temporally irregular energy sources. It is a very > simple reaction, readily available ingredients are found everywhere for > little cost. And that is ... ??? > Technology exists to store the energy and release it, that is > sufficiently efficient (since there is no alternative other than to > waste solar and wind energy when it is inconveniently timed efficiency > becomes less concerning) As I understand it, batteries are the gold standard for efficiency in this. Between 20% and 80% SOC, lead batteries are close to 100% efficient. I'd guess that other types have similar ranges with similar efficiency. Air compressed in undergound mines has been used for utility load leveling. The programs so far have required natural gas input to warm the cold released air. Their efficiency looks decent if you ignore the gas input. However, one source I read put the actual efficiency for air storage at 25- 45%. Pumped hydro is much more common and supposedly runs 60-85% efficiency, though I admit I find that hard to believe too. The island of El Hierro is now generating almost all of their electricity with wind, and storing it with pumped hydro. > compressed air could do this, but I would really prefer it was a > compressed reactive gas not just nitrogen and some other lesser > components. Can you explain why? > If this particular gas was used, an additional use is possible, we > could use to power EVs. What gas are you talking about? It almost seems as if you're avoiding naming it. Why all the mystery? David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Should I Buy a Smart ED or a IMIEV or Chevy Spark?: 2014 Smart ED Service Manual Help
Hi Folks, I didn't get a response on the service manual or where to get a battery for the Smart ED 2013 - 2015 (used Smart) so I'm thinking maybe I should buy something else (since the shop manuals/batteries are made of Unobtanium). I Googled Service manuals for the Mitsubishi IMIev and Chevy Spark; were available online like the Leaf. It also looked like you could monitor individual battery voltages, not sure if you can do that with the Smart ED. It looks like Mercedes doesn't want to sell any electric Smart ED's ($25K for a battery replacement and no Service Manuals available.) The Smart also wants $80 per month battery rental that the other EV's don't require. I found from EVwest.com that they have 57V Tesla battery replacement modules for $1k for the 2013 Smart only, 2014 on is the Deutsche ACCUmotive for $25K replacement. So maybe I should buy that with a Smart 2013? Sounds like that may be the only serviceable Smart unless buying two wrecked one's to combine parts when the cells start to crap out. Or maybe like on EValbum.com convert one from gas like another guy did on an 05' model - but it would be nice to have regen. From: Mark Hanson [mailto:mhan...@hughes.net] Sent: Monday, September 26, 2016 7:45 PM To: 'ev@lists.evdl.org' Subject: RE: 2014 Smart ED Service Manual Help Hi Folks, I was thinking of buying a 2014 Smart ED but I can't find a service manual/schematics, paid $60 to www.smarttekinfo.com and just a few pamphlets, marketing fluff. I tried for about $15 www.ALLDATAdiy.com with similar results. Contacting/emailing Smart just got marketing & $80/mo battery rental info. I have a Leaf currently and it was easy to download/print the 3" thick shop manual on battery/charging/traction controls/schematics but no dice with Smart. When I called the local Mercedes dealer they wanted $25K for a battery replacement at the typical 60K miles (the Leaf is $5.5K for a battery replacement). So is the Smart ED a throw-away car that you can't service? Does anyone know where to get a *service/shop manual* so I can feel comfortable servicing like my Leaf? Does anyone know where to by *battery cells* or pack for a Smart ED? The local Mercedes dealer said they won't bother with Smarts maybe why their annual sales were 2K and the Leaf was 20K last year. It looks like on www.batteryuniversity.com that the Volt, Leaf and Smart ED are all NMC (Nickel Manganese Cobalt cathode with a lithium electrolyte and a graphite anode) so should have about 60k miles life similar to LiFePO4. The Smart ED warranty is 4 years 48K miles Smart said without paying $80 battery rent per month "battery assurance plan" nonsense. I also use LeafSpy but didn't see info app like that for the Smart ED. I'd like to replace my electric Ghia www.evalbum.com/4346 soon when it needs $8k batteries with a $8k 2014 Smart or similar small commuter car to make my 48 miles round trip to work. Have a renewable energy day, Mark Mark E. Hanson 184 Vista Lane Fincastle, VA 24090 540-473-1248 phone & FAX, 540-816-0812 cell REEVA: community service RE & EV project club Website: www.REEVAdiy.org (See Project Gallery) UL Certified PV Installer My RE&EV Circuits: www.EVDL.org/lib/mh -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161001/ba980833/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Compressed Air
I have reported before that almost 20 years ago I visited MDI in France, who were supposed to release an air-powered car. I checked their physics and came to the conclusion that without heat exchanger, their efficiency would be horrible and the air engine would freeze up. That is exactly what several news reporters have said once they took a slightly longer test run than just a loop in the parking lot. Physics is quite clear about the efficiency of compressing and expanding a gas like air. You invest a *lot* of power in the compression and get a *lot* of heat out at that moment. As Lee would say: heat is the indicator of (in)efficiency. Only if you are able to either store or feed that heat back in during expansion, can you get a decent efficiency. Since MDI did not design that in, their cars were doomed to be wasteful and since the compressed air storage has so low energy density, their range was short. There really was not a whole lot of difference compared to running batteries, though in theory the weight could be less and the absence of lead or acid or other dangerous materials was a benefit, but the lower efficiency made it a non-starter. There are niches where air powered vehicles were used, think mine corridors where no dangerous goods, sparks or combustion was a big benefit for the operation underground. Today we would use an AC (brushless) drive to avoid the sparks and achieve better efficiency. Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -Original Message- From: EV [mailto:ev-boun...@lists.evdl.org] On Behalf Of EVDL Administrator via EV Sent: Saturday, October 01, 2016 4:51 PM To: ev@lists.evdl.org Subject: Re: [EVDL] Compressed Air On 30 Sep 2016 at 19:44, Michael Ross via EV wrote: > Can we discuss compressed air a a storage medium that can spin > electric motors in autos and trucks? Maybe, but I don't see how air can power a motor. We've had posts on compressed air cars before - check the archive - but those aren't EVs. See Wikipedia for a decent article on compressed air cars that explains why they've never made the big time despite nearly a century of tinkering witih the concept. The problems are low efficiency and an energy density by volume that's worse than lead batteries. > Certain elements can be reformatted to higher energy states and then > reacted to power EV's. Isn't this how batteries work? > There is a particular reaction that could be used to store energy from > sustainable, but temporally irregular energy sources. It is a very > simple reaction, readily available ingredients are found everywhere for > little cost. And that is ... ??? > Technology exists to store the energy and release it, that is > sufficiently efficient (since there is no alternative other than to > waste solar and wind energy when it is inconveniently timed efficiency > becomes less concerning) As I understand it, batteries are the gold standard for efficiency in this. Between 20% and 80% SOC, lead batteries are close to 100% efficient. I'd guess that other types have similar ranges with similar efficiency. Air compressed in undergound mines has been used for utility load leveling. The programs so far have required natural gas input to warm the cold released air. Their efficiency looks decent if you ignore the gas input. However, one source I read put the actual efficiency for air storage at 25- 45%. Pumped hydro is much more common and supposedly runs 60-85% efficiency, though I admit I find that hard to believe too. The island of El Hierro is now generating almost all of their electricity with wind, and storing it with pumped hydro. > compressed air could do this, but I would really prefer it was a > compressed reactive gas not just nitrogen and some other lesser > components. Can you explain why? > If this particular gas was used, an additional use is possible, we > could use to power EVs. What gas are you talking about? It almost seems as if you're avoiding naming it. Why all the mystery? David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___
Re: [EVDL] Should I Buy a Smart ED or a IMIEV or Chevy Spark?: 2014 Smart ED Service Manual Help
On 10/01/2016 07:10 PM, Mark Hanson via EV wrote: Hi Folks, I didn't get a response on the service manual or where to get a battery for the Smart ED 2013 - 2015 (used Smart) so I'm thinking maybe I should buy something else (since the shop manuals/batteries are made of Unobtanium). I Googled Service manuals for the Mitsubishi IMIev and Chevy Spark; were available online like the Leaf. It also looked like you could monitor individual battery voltages, not sure if you can do that with the Smart ED. I'm assuming you're shopping for a low range EV with a battery that can be cost effectively replaced when the time comes? I bought an early Leaf expecting that I could replace the battery with something bigger, better, and cheaper after 5-10 years. My Leaf battery lasted two years and Nissan refused to fix it. I then bought a Tesla S. Best car I've ever owned. Since getting the Tesla, I've bought two imievs which seemed to be extraordinary values. Both new, one cost a net of about $14k, the other about $8k. I drive them in preference to the Tesla when trip length allows. The jury is out on imiev battery longevity. I've seen no alarming reports such as with Leaf. But I have only about 10k miles and 4k miles on mine. No detectable loss of capacity. On the Tesla, about 83k miles with 90+% capacity. There is an app for imievs which seems to have much more detailed monitoring than the terrible dash instrumentation. I used to fiddle with the app but found dealing with the Android device too tedious. And distracting. I STILL look forward to having "cheaper, bigger, better" batteries available through non-OEM channels. I would suggest getting in line for a Model 3 and just toughing it out until it arrives. Maybe lease a lesser car. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Compressed Air
On 10/01/2016 08:34 PM, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: I have reported before that almost 20 years ago I visited MDI in France, who were supposed to release an air-powered car. I checked their physics and came to the conclusion that without heat exchanger, their efficiency would be horrible and the air engine would freeze up. Living in Florida, I could see taking advantage of the expanding gas to provide air conditioning for your passenger compartment. Wouldn't improve the storage efficiency, but would at least provide a benefit on the expansion side. (more efficient than using the air driven turbine/motor to drive an AC compressor). Jay ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Compressed Air
For energy storage, my understanding is that best solution depends on a number of factors, like amount of time for storing and scale. Again, my understanding and recollection, is that for small scale and storage time of hours, batteries are superior. Compressed air, IIRC, pops up for shorter storage time periods, and partially overlaps batteries for use suitability. Hydro and hydrogen are good for long term and grid scale. There's a good chart out there that I've seen in many forms that lays out well the technology with the appropriate solution(s). Let me know if you're interested in seeing it. Sent from AltaMail From: EVDL Administrator via EV To: ev@lists.evdl.org Subject: Re: [EVDL] Compressed Air Date: 10/1/16, 4:50 PM On 30 Sep 2016 at 19:44, Michael Ross via EV wrote: > Can we discuss compressed air a a storage medium that can spin > electric motors in autos and trucks? Maybe, but I don't see how air can power a motor. We've had posts on compressed air cars before - check the archive - but those aren't EVs. See Wikipedia for a decent article on compressed air cars that explains why they've never made the big time despite nearly a century of tinkering witih the concept. The problems are low efficiency and an energy density by volume that's worse than lead batteries. > Certain elements can be reformatted to higher energy states and then > reacted to power EV's. Isn't this how batteries work? > There is a particular reaction that could be used to store energy from > sustainable, but temporally irregular energy sources. It is a very > simple reaction, readily available ingredients are found everywhere for > little cost. And that is ... ??? > Technology exists to store the energy and release it, that is > sufficiently efficient (since there is no alternative other than to > waste solar and wind energy when it is inconveniently timed efficiency > becomes less concerning) As I understand it, batteries are the gold standard for efficiency in this. Between 20% and 80% SOC, lead batteries are close to 100% efficient. I'd guess that other types have similar ranges with similar efficiency. Air compressed in undergound mines has been used for utility load leveling. The programs so far have required natural gas input to warm the cold released air. Their efficiency looks decent if you ignore the gas input. However, one source I read put the actual efficiency for air storage at 25- 45%. Pumped hydro is much more common and supposedly runs 60-85% efficiency, though I admit I find that hard to believe too. The island of El Hierro is now generating almost all of their electricity with wind, and storing it with pumped hydro. > compressed air could do this, but I would really prefer it was a > compressed reactive gas not just nitrogen and some other lesser > components. Can you explain why? > If this particular gas was used, an additional use is possible, we > could use to power EVs. What gas are you talking about? It almost seems as if you're avoiding naming it. Why all the mystery? David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161001/5317cf3a/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Should I Buy a Smart ED or a IMIEV or Chevy Spark?: 2014 Smart ED Service Manual Help
There's a guy on the Smart Car forums who has created a diagnostic tool using an Arduino with a CANBus shield that can read the battery voltage of each of the 93 cells, total voltage, various temperatures, statistical analysis, all in a few seconds at the stroke of a key. https://github.com/MyLab-odyssey/ED_BMSdiag He's clearly figured out some stuff about how the car works. I'm just finishing up a 3 year lease on a Smart ED and I hate to let it go. The car has been flawless for 14,000 miles with only the required 10,000 mile checkup. Kelly Blue Book lists the resale value at about $5,000 so why worry about paying $25,000 for a new battery? If the car dies badly, buy a new (used) one. I'm sure batteries out of wrecked ones will be showing up in salvage yards or on eBay too. Car2Go is switching out 400 electric Smarts for gas ones. No word on what they're doing with the old ones but I bet there's going to be a stock of batteries available somewhere. --Rick On 10/1/2016 8:10 PM, Mark Hanson via EV wrote: Hi Folks, I didn't get a response on the service manual or where to get a battery for the Smart ED 2013 - 2015 (used Smart) so I'm thinking maybe I should buy something else (since the shop manuals/batteries are made of Unobtanium). I Googled Service manuals for the Mitsubishi IMIev and Chevy Spark; were available online like the Leaf. It also looked like you could monitor individual battery voltages, not sure if you can do that with the Smart ED. It looks like Mercedes doesn't want to sell any electric Smart ED's ($25K for a battery replacement and no Service Manuals available.) The Smart also wants $80 per month battery rental that the other EV's don't require. I found from EVwest.com that they have 57V Tesla battery replacement modules for $1k for the 2013 Smart only, 2014 on is the Deutsche ACCUmotive for $25K replacement. So maybe I should buy that with a Smart 2013? Sounds like that may be the only serviceable Smart unless buying two wrecked one's to combine parts when the cells start to crap out. Or maybe like on EValbum.com convert one from gas like another guy did on an 05' model - but it would be nice to have regen. From: Mark Hanson [mailto:mhan...@hughes.net] Sent: Monday, September 26, 2016 7:45 PM To: 'ev@lists.evdl.org' Subject: RE: 2014 Smart ED Service Manual Help Hi Folks, I was thinking of buying a 2014 Smart ED but I can't find a service manual/schematics, paid $60 to www.smarttekinfo.com and just a few pamphlets, marketing fluff. I tried for about $15 www.ALLDATAdiy.com with similar results. Contacting/emailing Smart just got marketing & $80/mo battery rental info. I have a Leaf currently and it was easy to download/print the 3" thick shop manual on battery/charging/traction controls/schematics but no dice with Smart. When I called the local Mercedes dealer they wanted $25K for a battery replacement at the typical 60K miles (the Leaf is $5.5K for a battery replacement). So is the Smart ED a throw-away car that you can't service? Does anyone know where to get a *service/shop manual* so I can feel comfortable servicing like my Leaf? Does anyone know where to by *battery cells* or pack for a Smart ED? The local Mercedes dealer said they won't bother with Smarts maybe why their annual sales were 2K and the Leaf was 20K last year. It looks like on www.batteryuniversity.com that the Volt, Leaf and Smart ED are all NMC (Nickel Manganese Cobalt cathode with a lithium electrolyte and a graphite anode) so should have about 60k miles life similar to LiFePO4. The Smart ED warranty is 4 years 48K miles Smart said without paying $80 battery rent per month "battery assurance plan" nonsense. I also use LeafSpy but didn't see info app like that for the Smart ED. I'd like to replace my electric Ghia www.evalbum.com/4346 soon when it needs $8k batteries with a $8k 2014 Smart or similar small commuter car to make my 48 miles round trip to work. Have a renewable energy day, Mark Mark E. Hanson 184 Vista Lane Fincastle, VA 24090 540-473-1248 phone & FAX, 540-816-0812 cell REEVA: community service RE & EV project club Website: www.REEVAdiy.org (See Project Gallery) UL Certified PV Installer My RE&EV Circuits: www.EVDL.org/lib/mh -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161001/ba980833/attachment.htm> ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -- next part