Re: [EVDL] Untrue/disinformation: charging EVs vs pacemakers

[Cor van de Water via EV]

Agreed on the disqualification of the lazy writer with a slant.

On the technical issues: this has been no different than the Fearmongering
about the Prius when it started becoming more of a threat to oil profits.
One of the very qualified contributors to the Prius Technical Stuff yahoo
group did some measurements with a sensitive EMF meter inside the Prius,
since the HV cables from battery to inverter actually run through the cabin.
He found no concerning field levels despite high power levels running
through the inverter.
The simple reasen is the capacitors in the inverter removing any HF that
could result in EM radiation.
Note that any car, EV, hybrid or ICE needs to meet legal limits to HF
(radio) emissions, so it is technically unlikely that a car would meet the
legal limits and at the same time cause dangerous levels of radio signal.
Note that without meeting the legal requirements, a manufacturer is not
even allowed to promote (advertise) a product for sale.
Cor.

On Mon, Jul 8, 2019, 10:59 AM EVDL Administrator via EV 
wrote:

> I don't know whether it's a deliberate EV slash piece, but for sure it's
> poorly written and REALLY poorly researched.
>
> > Human beings are electromagnetic beings
>
> That's news to me.  I don't know about you, but last time I checked, I was
> still made of organic material.  Some of it may be composting, but that's
> another matter. :-)
>
> > cell phone use over 10 years causes an increased risk of acquiring
> > certain types of brain tumor and salivary cancer--that´s from exposing
> > your head an face  about 1 kilowatt hour per year.  A low-end electric
> > car will have a 24 KW battery pack that is 24 times more than a year
> > of cell phone use
>
> That's not even apples to oranges, it's more like comparing sunshine to
> dirt.
>
> > If there is a power surge caused by lightening I would  not want to be
> > a charging vehicle.
>
> I'm pretty sure that the author is, like me, fully organic, so there's not
> much danger of her becoming a charging vehicle.  :-)
>
> It would be nice if she learned how to spell "lightning."
>
> >What if water gets in the charger?
>
> The GFI shuts it down.  Read a little before you write, OK?
>
> > Although the charging port is waterproof-something metal or conductive
> > could affect the charging port.
>
> Uh, not really, since it isn't energized until the EVSE connection is
> complete and confirmed.
>
> > Do you want to be in a vehicle when it catches fire: Not me--
>
> What a question.  And if Walford is so worried about vehicle fires, she
> might want to stay away from ICEVs, where she'd be sitting a few feet from
> 10 to 25 gallons of highly flammable gasoline.
>
> > What if the batteries leak?
>
> What if the gas tank leaks?
>
> > Should a repair shop bake or use heat on paint when when repairing an
> > electric vehicle?
>
> Should she paint her own car?
>
> > What do I do if I am in car accident in an EV-is it safe?
>
> Is any auto accident safe?
>
> I can hardly believe that someone who claims 20 years of writing about
> cars
> (see the "about" section of the website) would publish such claptrap.
> Walford reads a few lawyer boilerplate disclaimers in EV manuals, actually
> takes them seriously, blows them all out of proportion, and then with no
> further research scrawls out this hysterical, panicked, un-proofread
> screed.
>
>
> What utter garbage.  Walford should be ashamed to lay this hot mess before
> the public, and her editors of those 20 years should be ashamed for not
> showing her how to be a responsible journalist -- or even how to proofread
> her own writing.
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EVDL Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not
> reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my
> email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>
>
-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Untrue/disinformation: charging EVs vs pacemakers

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

I don't know whether it's a deliberate EV slash piece, but for sure it's 
poorly written and REALLY poorly researched. 

> Human beings are electromagnetic beings 

That's news to me.  I don't know about you, but last time I checked, I was 
still made of organic material.  Some of it may be composting, but that's 
another matter. :-)

> cell phone use over 10 years causes an increased risk of acquiring
> certain types of brain tumor and salivary cancer--that´s from exposing
> your head an face  about 1 kilowatt hour per year.  A low-end electric
> car will have a 24 KW battery pack that is 24 times more than a year
> of cell phone use 

That's not even apples to oranges, it's more like comparing sunshine to 
dirt.
 
> If there is a power surge caused by lightening I would  not want to be
> a charging vehicle.

I'm pretty sure that the author is, like me, fully organic, so there's not 
much danger of her becoming a charging vehicle.  :-) 

It would be nice if she learned how to spell "lightning."

>What if water gets in the charger?

The GFI shuts it down.  Read a little before you write, OK?

> Although the charging port is waterproof-something metal or conductive
> could affect the charging port. 

Uh, not really, since it isn't energized until the EVSE connection is 
complete and confirmed.

> Do you want to be in a vehicle when it catches fire: Not me-- 

What a question.  And if Walford is so worried about vehicle fires, she 
might want to stay away from ICEVs, where she'd be sitting a few feet from 
10 to 25 gallons of highly flammable gasoline.  

> What if the batteries leak?  

What if the gas tank leaks?

> Should a repair shop bake or use heat on paint when when repairing an
> electric vehicle?   

Should she paint her own car?  

> What do I do if I am in car accident in an EV-is it safe? 

Is any auto accident safe?  

I can hardly believe that someone who claims 20 years of writing about cars 
(see the "about" section of the website) would publish such claptrap.  
Walford reads a few lawyer boilerplate disclaimers in EV manuals, actually 
takes them seriously, blows them all out of proportion, and then with no 
further research scrawls out this hysterical, panicked, un-proofread screed. 
 

What utter garbage.  Walford should be ashamed to lay this hot mess before 
the public, and her editors of those 20 years should be ashamed for not 
showing her how to be a responsible journalist -- or even how to proofread 
her own writing.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not 
reach me.  To send a private message, please obtain my 
email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Untrue/disinformation: charging EVs vs pacemakers

[Lee Hart via EV]

Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

How is the EMF from charging a car different than from an electric HW
heater or an electric range ?


A water heater or electric range is basically just a resistor. Its "EMF" 
isn't anything but 60 Hz -- the same thing that's radiated by every 
appliance, electric cord, and power line in the world. As far as I know, 
such a low frequency has no detectable health effects, unless the levels 
are extremely intense.


An electric car can potentially produce higher frequency DMF; up to 100 
KHz or so. But this is still *far* below the frequency range that has 
shown health effects except at very high levels.


However, it would be poor design not to minimize such radiation. It 
represents a power and efficiency loss. It would also have a bad effect 
on radios and other electronic devices long before it was intense enough 
to affect biological systems.


That's not to say that fear-mongers won't use it as a scare tactic. Love 
makes the world go round; but fear keeps the profits coming! :-(


--
Shop at Frank's Fearmonger store, catering to all your phobia needs. 
All the finest in tinfoil hats, lead-lined underwear, toilet seat locks, 
and UFO repellants.

--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Untrue/disinformation: charging EVs vs pacemakers

[Peri Hartman via EV]

How is the EMF from charging a car different than from an electric HW 
heater or an electric range ?

Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "brucedp5 via EV" 
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "brucedp5" 
Sent: 07-Jul-19 10:53:43 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Untrue/disinformation: charging EVs vs pacemakers 






 (?more koch-koolaid?)
https://www.autoconnectedcar.com/2019/07/should-i-sit-in-a-ev-while-my-tesla-leaf-bmw-i3-kia-soul-bolt-volt-or-any-ev-is-charging-or-fast-charging/
Should I Sit in a EV While My Tesla, LEAF, BMW i3, Kia Soul, Bolt, Volt or
Any EV is Charging or Fast Charging?
July 7, 2019  Lynn Walford

I have been an EV driver for almost four years. At first I, would leave my
dog in the car to run into the store while my car was charging at 240 Volts
until I read the manual.  What I learned made me to decide to never ever
stay or be in an electric vehicle while it is charging. Should I sit in
vehicle while it is trickle, 240 or fast charging? I say no way—and “It’s
better safe than sorry.”

The Nissan LEAF manual states

If you use any medical electric devices, such as an implantable cardiac
pacemaker or an implantable cardiovascular defibrillator, check with the
electric medical device manufacturer concerning the effects that charging
may have  on implanted devices before starting the charge operation because
Charging may affect the operation.

If you have an implantable cardiac pacemaker or an implantable
cardiovascular defibrillator, while the Li-ion battery is charging:

Do not stay inside the vehicle.

Do not go inside the vehicle, for example to remove or place an item
in the passenger compartment.

Do not open the rear hatch, for example. to remove or place an item
in the cargo area.

Charging may affect the operation of electric medical device and
result in serious personal injury or death

Let’s think about it for a moment—the electromagnetic energy from a car
charging can affect a pacemaker or medical device. Human beings are
electromagnetic beings—-Would you stand under a power line or live under a
power line by choice?

Recent cell phone usage studies found that cell phone use over 10 years
causes an increased risk of acquiring certain types of brain tumor and
salivary cancer—-that’s from exposing your head an face  about 1 kilowatt
hour per year.  A low-end electric car will have a 24 KW battery pack that
is 24 times more than a year of cell phone use… There is no mention of
medical devices in a Tesla 3 manual.  It could be the 1920’s when everyone
smoked cigarettes it wasn’t until decades later that manufacturers put
warnings on the cigarettes.

We electric car owners don’t want to be the test subjects for new cancer
studies—I see people all the time sitting in a BMW i3, Chevy Volt, Chevy
Bolt, Telsa and even a Smart EV.  I do not ever sit in my car while it is
charging—there is no need for me to be there.  I go walk some where.

According to the Chevy Bolt manual:

Do not attempt to disconnect the DC vehicle plug while charging is
active. This action may damage vehicle or charging station hardware.

Never leave children unattended near the vehicle while the vehicle is
charging and never allow children to play with the charge cord.

This vehicle has systems that operate on a radio frequency that complies
with Part 15/Part 18 of the
Federal Communications Commission (FCC) rules and with Industry Canada
Standards RSS-GEN/210/216/220/251/310, ICES?001.Operation is subject to the
following
two conditions:

1. The device may not cause harmful interference.
2. The device must accept any interference received, including
interference that may cause undesired operation of the device.

These are also serious consideration–children shouldn’t play with cords—-nor
adults. If there is a power surge caused by lightening I would not want to
be a charging vehicle.

What if water gets in the charger?

Although the charging port is waterproof—something metal or conductive could
affect the charging port. Do you want to be in a vehicle when it catches
fire: Not me—-

What if the batteries leak?

Leaks or damage to the Li-ion battery may result in a fire. If you discover
a leak, contact emergency services immediately. Since the fluid leak may be
lithium manganate from the Li-ion battery, never touch the fluid leak inside
or outside the vehicle. If the fluid contactsyour skin or eyes, wash it off
immediately with a large amount of water and receive immediate medical
attention to help avoid serious injury.

Should a repair shop bake or use heat on paint when when repairing an
electric vehicle?

In the event of an accident that requires body repair and painting, the
vehicle should be delivered to your dealer the Li-ion battery pack and high
voltage parts such as the inverter, including the wiring harness, removed
prior to painting. Li-ion battery packs exposedto heat in the paint booth
will experience capacity loss. Damage

[EVDL] Untrue/disinformation: charging EVs vs pacemakers

[brucedp5 via EV]

 (?more koch-koolaid?)
https://www.autoconnectedcar.com/2019/07/should-i-sit-in-a-ev-while-my-tesla-leaf-bmw-i3-kia-soul-bolt-volt-or-any-ev-is-charging-or-fast-charging/
Should I Sit in a EV While My Tesla, LEAF, BMW i3, Kia Soul, Bolt, Volt or
Any EV is Charging or Fast Charging?
July 7, 2019  Lynn Walford

I have been an EV driver for almost four years. At first I, would leave my
dog in the car to run into the store while my car was charging at 240 Volts
until I read the manual.  What I learned made me to decide to never ever
stay or be in an electric vehicle while it is charging. Should I sit in
vehicle while it is trickle, 240 or fast charging? I say no way—and “It’s
better safe than sorry.”

The Nissan LEAF manual states

If you use any medical electric devices, such as an implantable cardiac
pacemaker or an implantable cardiovascular defibrillator, check with the
electric medical device manufacturer concerning the effects that charging
may have  on implanted devices before starting the charge operation because 
Charging may affect the operation.

If you have an implantable cardiac pacemaker or an implantable
cardiovascular defibrillator, while the Li-ion battery is charging:

Do not stay inside the vehicle.

Do not go inside the vehicle, for example to remove or place an item
in the passenger compartment.

Do not open the rear hatch, for example. to remove or place an item
in the cargo area.

Charging may affect the operation of electric medical device and
result in serious personal injury or death

Let’s think about it for a moment—the electromagnetic energy from a car
charging can affect a pacemaker or medical device. Human beings are
electromagnetic beings—-Would you stand under a power line or live under a
power line by choice?

Recent cell phone usage studies found that cell phone use over 10 years
causes an increased risk of acquiring certain types of brain tumor and
salivary cancer—-that’s from exposing your head an face  about 1 kilowatt
hour per year.  A low-end electric car will have a 24 KW battery pack that
is 24 times more than a year of cell phone use… There is no mention of
medical devices in a Tesla 3 manual.  It could be the 1920’s when everyone
smoked cigarettes it wasn’t until decades later that manufacturers put
warnings on the cigarettes.

We electric car owners don’t want to be the test subjects for new cancer
studies—I see people all the time sitting in a BMW i3, Chevy Volt, Chevy
Bolt, Telsa and even a Smart EV.  I do not ever sit in my car while it is
charging—there is no need for me to be there.  I go walk some where.

According to the Chevy Bolt manual:

Do not attempt to disconnect the DC vehicle plug while charging is
active. This action may damage vehicle or charging station hardware.

Never leave children unattended near the vehicle while the vehicle is
charging and never allow children to play with the charge cord.

This vehicle has systems that operate on a radio frequency that complies
with Part 15/Part 18 of the
Federal Communications Commission (FCC) rules and with Industry Canada
Standards RSS-GEN/210/216/220/251/310, ICES?001.Operation is subject to the
following
two conditions:

1. The device may not cause harmful interference.
2. The device must accept any interference received, including
interference that may cause undesired operation of the device.

These are also serious consideration–children shouldn’t play with cords—-nor
adults. If there is a power surge caused by lightening I would not want to
be a charging vehicle.

What if water gets in the charger?

Although the charging port is waterproof—something metal or conductive could
affect the charging port. Do you want to be in a vehicle when it catches
fire: Not me—-

What if the batteries leak?

Leaks or damage to the Li-ion battery may result in a fire. If you discover
a leak, contact emergency services immediately. Since the fluid leak may be
lithium manganate from the Li-ion battery, never touch the fluid leak inside
or outside the vehicle. If the fluid contactsyour skin or eyes, wash it off
immediately with a large amount of water and receive immediate medical
attention to help avoid serious injury.

Should a repair shop bake or use heat on paint when when repairing an
electric vehicle?

In the event of an accident that requires body repair and painting, the
vehicle should be delivered to your dealer the Li-ion battery pack and high
voltage parts such as the inverter, including the wiring harness, removed
prior to painting. Li-ion battery packs exposedto heat in the paint booth
will experience capacity loss. Damaged Lion battery packs may also pose
safety risks to untrained mechanics and repair personnel.

What do I do if I am in car accident in an EV—is it safe?

If you are in car accident in an EV, you should use the same precautions you
would in any car accident. Pull over to the side of road, if it is safe. If
you are not on a