Re: [EVDL] Automaker pitches (Call for nationwide U.S. EV Mandate) woo

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

Hey chief, I didn’t say that. 

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Oct 28, 2018, at 7:37 PM, Tom Hudson  wrote:
> 
> Tesla's not a major battery supplier?  You've got to be kidding, right?
> 
> Considering just the Model 3 (not S or X), so far Tesla has delivered over 
> 113,000 vehicles (per Bloomberg as of tonight), each with a ~80kWh battery 
> pack.  That's over 9 GIGAWATT HOURS of EV batteries ON THE ROAD now, just in 
> Model 3's.  Just who has done more than that?
> 
> -Tom
> 
>> On 10/27/2018 1:58 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:
>> I agree on everything except on the characterization of Tesla as preeminent 
>> battery supplier. What about BYD? Others?
>> 
>> - Mark
>> 
>> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> 
> -- 
> Thomas Hudson
> http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
> http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
> 

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Re: [EVDL] Automaker pitches (Call for nationwide U.S. EV Mandate) woo

[Tom Hudson via EV]

Tesla's not a major battery supplier?  You've got to be kidding, right?

Considering just the Model 3 (not S or X), so far Tesla has delivered over 113,000 
vehicles (per Bloomberg as of tonight), each with a ~80kWh battery pack.  That's over 9 
GIGAWATT HOURS of EV batteries ON THE ROAD now, just in Model 3's.  Just who has done more 
than that?


-Tom

On 10/27/2018 1:58 PM, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote:
I agree on everything except on the characterization of Tesla as preeminent battery 
supplier. What about BYD? Others?


- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone


--
Thomas Hudson
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects

--
Thomas Hudson
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects

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Re: [EVDL] Automaker pitches (Call for nationwide U.S. EV Mandate) woo

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

Wow.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Oct 27, 2018, at 12:13 PM, Michael Ross  wrote:
> 
> The gigafactory doubles global production. That should do it, but they are 
> building more.
> 
>> On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 2:58 PM Mark Abramowitz  
>> wrote:
>> I agree on everything except on the characterization of Tesla as preeminent 
>> battery supplier. What about BYD? Others?
>> 
>> - Mark
>> 
>> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>> 
>> > On Oct 27, 2018, at 7:22 AM, Michael Ross via EV  wrote:
>> > 
>> > In the grand schema Tesla is just a tiny contributor to the global
>> > population of autos. Every thing the established manufacturers do to lag
>> > them will benefit them.  I think it is all good for Tesla if they have less
>> > pressure.
>> > 
>> > Don't forget that Tesla is more or less the preeminent battery supplier.
>> > Tesla will eventually benefit a great deal on the battery sales front, but
>> > they can't keep up with their own demand yet, let alone the auto industry
>> > as a whole.
>> > 
>> > All in all, EV manufacturing is still NOT a zero sum game.  It is not
>> > engraved in stone that Tesla will survive when the ministry as a whole
>> > decides to go all in.  But Tesla is doing far better at scratching out a
>> > place for itself than was predictable.  Tesla is very disruptive, but still
>> > squash-able. I am very grateful for their pushing the tech forward and
>> > making EVs interesting.  I hope they don't get squashed before EVs are well
>> > established.
>> > 
>> >> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 10:54 PM paul dove via EV  
>> >> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> They want to have lower emission standards on their trucks and SUVs so it
>> >> will lower the cost and increase profits to supplement their electric
>> >> vehicle programs. Same thing as a bailout. What does that do to companies
>> >> like Tesla.
>> >> 
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >> 
>> >>> On Oct 26, 2018, at 10:42 AM, Mark Abramowitz 
>> >> wrote:
>> >>> 
>> >>> I appreciate the cynicism, but I find no evidence of that.
>> >>> 
>> >>> That article is old, but I suspect that the data still applies. It says
>> >> nothing about a government bailout.
>> >>> 
>> >>> So they are losing money on the Bolt. The Prius lost money for 10 years,
>> >> but is Toyota’s most popular car. These folks are in it for the long game,
>> >> and have been investing in both types of EVs.
>> >>> 
>> >>> - Mark
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Michael E. Ross
> (919) 585-6737 Land
> (919) 901-2805 Cell and Text
> (919) 576-0824 Tablet, Google Phone and Text
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [EVDL] Automaker pitches (Call for nationwide U.S. EV Mandate) woo

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

I agree on everything except on the characterization of Tesla as preeminent 
battery supplier. What about BYD? Others?

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Oct 27, 2018, at 7:22 AM, Michael Ross via EV  wrote:
> 
> In the grand schema Tesla is just a tiny contributor to the global
> population of autos. Every thing the established manufacturers do to lag
> them will benefit them.  I think it is all good for Tesla if they have less
> pressure.
> 
> Don't forget that Tesla is more or less the preeminent battery supplier.
> Tesla will eventually benefit a great deal on the battery sales front, but
> they can't keep up with their own demand yet, let alone the auto industry
> as a whole.
> 
> All in all, EV manufacturing is still NOT a zero sum game.  It is not
> engraved in stone that Tesla will survive when the ministry as a whole
> decides to go all in.  But Tesla is doing far better at scratching out a
> place for itself than was predictable.  Tesla is very disruptive, but still
> squash-able. I am very grateful for their pushing the tech forward and
> making EVs interesting.  I hope they don't get squashed before EVs are well
> established.
> 
>> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 10:54 PM paul dove via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> They want to have lower emission standards on their trucks and SUVs so it
>> will lower the cost and increase profits to supplement their electric
>> vehicle programs. Same thing as a bailout. What does that do to companies
>> like Tesla.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 26, 2018, at 10:42 AM, Mark Abramowitz 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I appreciate the cynicism, but I find no evidence of that.
>>> 
>>> That article is old, but I suspect that the data still applies. It says
>> nothing about a government bailout.
>>> 
>>> So they are losing money on the Bolt. The Prius lost money for 10 years,
>> but is Toyota’s most popular car. These folks are in it for the long game,
>> and have been investing in both types of EVs.
>>> 
>>> - Mark

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Re: [EVDL] Automaker pitches (Call for nationwide U.S. EV Mandate) woo

[Michael Ross via EV]

The gigafactory doubles global production. That should do it, but they are
building more.

On Sat, Oct 27, 2018 at 2:58 PM Mark Abramowitz 
wrote:

> I agree on everything except on the characterization of Tesla as
> preeminent battery supplier. What about BYD? Others?
>
> - Mark
>
> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>
> > On Oct 27, 2018, at 7:22 AM, Michael Ross via EV 
> wrote:
> >
> > In the grand schema Tesla is just a tiny contributor to the global
> > population of autos. Every thing the established manufacturers do to lag
> > them will benefit them.  I think it is all good for Tesla if they have
> less
> > pressure.
> >
> > Don't forget that Tesla is more or less the preeminent battery supplier.
> > Tesla will eventually benefit a great deal on the battery sales front,
> but
> > they can't keep up with their own demand yet, let alone the auto industry
> > as a whole.
> >
> > All in all, EV manufacturing is still NOT a zero sum game.  It is not
> > engraved in stone that Tesla will survive when the ministry as a whole
> > decides to go all in.  But Tesla is doing far better at scratching out a
> > place for itself than was predictable.  Tesla is very disruptive, but
> still
> > squash-able. I am very grateful for their pushing the tech forward and
> > making EVs interesting.  I hope they don't get squashed before EVs are
> well
> > established.
> >
> >> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 10:54 PM paul dove via EV 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> They want to have lower emission standards on their trucks and SUVs so
> it
> >> will lower the cost and increase profits to supplement their electric
> >> vehicle programs. Same thing as a bailout. What does that do to
> companies
> >> like Tesla.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Oct 26, 2018, at 10:42 AM, Mark Abramowitz 
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I appreciate the cynicism, but I find no evidence of that.
> >>>
> >>> That article is old, but I suspect that the data still applies. It says
> >> nothing about a government bailout.
> >>>
> >>> So they are losing money on the Bolt. The Prius lost money for 10
> years,
> >> but is Toyota’s most popular car. These folks are in it for the long
> game,
> >> and have been investing in both types of EVs.
> >>>
> >>> - Mark
>
>

-- 
Michael E. Ross
(919) 585-6737 Land
(919) 901-2805 Cell and Text
(919) 576-0824  Tablet,
Google Phone and Text
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Re: [EVDL] Automaker pitches (Call for nationwide U.S. EV Mandate) woo

[Michael Ross via EV]

In the grand schema Tesla is just a tiny contributor to the global
population of autos. Every thing the established manufacturers do to lag
them will benefit them.  I think it is all good for Tesla if they have less
pressure.

Don't forget that Tesla is more or less the preeminent battery supplier.
Tesla will eventually benefit a great deal on the battery sales front, but
they can't keep up with their own demand yet, let alone the auto industry
as a whole.

All in all, EV manufacturing is still NOT a zero sum game.  It is not
engraved in stone that Tesla will survive when the ministry as a whole
decides to go all in.  But Tesla is doing far better at scratching out a
place for itself than was predictable.  Tesla is very disruptive, but still
squash-able. I am very grateful for their pushing the tech forward and
making EVs interesting.  I hope they don't get squashed before EVs are well
established.

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 10:54 PM paul dove via EV  wrote:

> They want to have lower emission standards on their trucks and SUVs so it
> will lower the cost and increase profits to supplement their electric
> vehicle programs. Same thing as a bailout. What does that do to companies
> like Tesla.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 26, 2018, at 10:42 AM, Mark Abramowitz 
> wrote:
> >
> > I appreciate the cynicism, but I find no evidence of that.
> >
> > That article is old, but I suspect that the data still applies. It says
> nothing about a government bailout.
> >
> > So they are losing money on the Bolt. The Prius lost money for 10 years,
> but is Toyota’s most popular car. These folks are in it for the long game,
> and have been investing in both types of EVs.
> >
> > - Mark
> >
> > Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> >
> >> On Oct 26, 2018, at 4:04 AM, Paul Dove via EV 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Of course they do because they are losing money on the bolt. Need
> another government bailout.
> >> https://www.inverse.com/article/32239-why-gm-loses-money-chevy-bolt
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >>
> >>> On Oct 26, 2018, at 2:03 AM, brucedp5 via EV 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-26/gm-breaks-with-trump-in-call-for-national-electric-car-mandate
> >>> GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate
> >>> October 25, 2018  Automaker pitches U.S. rule to spur more EV sales
> through
> >>> 2030 ... GM says a nationwide program could put 7 million long-range
> >>> electric cars on the road and slash 375 million tons of carbon dioxide
> >>> emissions by 2030, compared with existing zero-emission vehicle
> mandates ...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> GM Wants Trump Administration To Back National Electric Vehicle ...
> >>> International Business Times-31 minutes ago
> >>> General Motors Co said on Friday it wants the Trump administration to
> back a
> >>> nationwide program to boost the sale of zero emission vehicles like
> electric
> >>> ...
> >>>
> >>> GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate
> >>> Bloomberg-42 minutes ago
> >>> The Trump administration wants to end California's requirement for
> >>> automakers to sell more electric cars in the state each year. America's
> >>> biggest automaker has ...
> >>>
> >>> GM proposes nationwide zero-emissions vehicle sales mandate
> >>> WHSV-1 hour ago
> >>> California sets the requirements based on a complex formula that
> considers
> >>> the total number of vehicles sold by an automaker and gives credits for
> >>> fully electric ...
> >>>
> >>> General Motors CEO: We call for federal electric and zero-emission ...
> >>> USA TODAY-1 hour ago
> >>> It will create jobs through the expansion of battery and electric
> vehicle
> >>> research and development and production, improve the environment and
> make
> >>> electric ...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> https://www.google.com/search?q=Breaks+With+Trump+in+Call+for+National+Electric+Car+Mandate
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 2 hours ago - The Trump administration wants to end California's
> requirement
> >>> for automakers to sell more electric cars in the state each year.
> America's
> >>> ...
> >>>
> >>> GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate ...
> >>> www.wiredfocus.com › electric cars
> >>> 51 mins ago
> >>>
> >>> GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate ...
> >>> www.techheadlines.us › electric cars
> >>> 51 mins ago
> >>>
> >>> [dated]
> >>> Trump's rollback could zap California's electric car industry ...
> >>>
> https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article215984510.html
> >>> Aug 2, 2018
> >>>
> >>> Trump is going after California's clean car mandate | TechCrunch
> >>>
> https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/.../trump-is-going-after-californias-clean-car-mandate.
> ..
> >>> Jul 23, 2018
> >>>
> >>> California wants more electric cars. The Trump administration doesn't
> ...
> >>>
> www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-fuel-standards-fight-20180202-story.html
> >>> Feb 2, 2018
> >>>
> >>> Electric Vehicles: Government M

Re: [EVDL] Automaker pitches (Call for nationwide U.S. EV Mandate) woo

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

OK, I see the confusion. You said “lower” which I interpreted as a lower 
number, or tighter. You meant the opposite.

Getting back to the main point you made, that they are seeking a “bailout”, as 
you put it, it’s unclear from those articles what exactly they are seeking on 
the non-ZEV side.

They do claim that the reductions will be greater with their proposal. Neither 
of the articles say that they are proposing rolling back the Obama reduction 
levels.

I think you need to look at their comment letter.

From the articles, though, the ZEV mandate proposal is a clear confirmation, 
that at least as GM views it, ZEV is here to stay. What is important is the 
rate of that turnover, which will really drive ( no pun intended) those 
emission reductions.

It is possible, and maybe likely that under their proposal, part of those ZEV 
reductions will be used to give more flexibility on the non-ZEV side. 

You call that a “bailout”, but I deal with rulemaking virtually every day, and 
that’s just really a compromise that gives you more emission reductions than 
you would have had anyway. 

The amount that you give up on the other side can define whether it’s a 
sweetheart deal or whether it just makes technical or economic sense.

It *is* possible that there is little backwards movement on the non-ZEV side 
because what automakers have always wanted is one standard, and their proposal 
gets them that. I don’t follow these standards, but my recollection is that 
under the Obama rules one standard was negotiated. The Trump rules would have 
just set up a fight with California and other states because they were weaker, 
and Trump wanted to weaken those state’s rules.(I hope I’m clear here- and 
correct, because I haven’t been closely following the details of the fight).

In any case, there is reason to celebrate that some OEMs are accepting ZEV as 
the future everywhere. And clearly GM is defining their future as ZEV, which is 
amazing to me.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Oct 27, 2018, at 4:32 AM, paul dove  wrote:
> 
> This article spells it out better.
> 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.freep.com/amp/1772182002
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 26, 2018, at 9:06 PM, Mark Abramowitz  wrote:
>> 
>> I’m not following you. Lower emission standards are MORE costly, right?
>> 
>> Even if not, I can see how you want to call it a bailout, but I guess that’s 
>> the case with any regulatory scheme. But I never hear it called a bailout.
>> 
>> As far as Tesla, it’s hard to say the impact. Up until a certain point, the 
>> more folks out there with the new technology, everybody benefits. At some 
>> point (have we reached it yet?), these things make a difference in the 
>> opposite direction.
>> 
>> But this is what we want, isn’t it? We’ve put in lots of incentives for 
>> electric drive, and gee, companies are taking advantage of them!
>> 
>> Weakening of other standards is another story.
>> 
>> - Mark
>> 
>> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 26, 2018, at 9:36 AM, paul dove  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Read between the lines. They want to have lower emission standards on their 
>>> trucks and SUVs so it will lower the cost and increase profits to 
>>> supplement their electric vehicle programs. Same thing as a bailout. What 
>>> does that do to companies like Tesla. 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 26, 2018, at 10:42 AM, Mark Abramowitz  
 wrote:
 
 I appreciate the cynicism, but I find no evidence of that. 
 
 That article is old, but I suspect that the data still applies. It says 
 nothing about a government bailout.
 
 So they are losing money on the Bolt. The Prius lost money for 10 years, 
 but is Toyota’s most popular car. These folks are in it for the long game, 
 and have been investing in both types of EVs.
 
 - Mark
 
 Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
 
> On Oct 26, 2018, at 4:04 AM, Paul Dove via EV  wrote:
> 
> Of course they do because they are losing money on the bolt. Need another 
> government bailout. 
> https://www.inverse.com/article/32239-why-gm-loses-money-chevy-bolt
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Oct 26, 2018, at 2:03 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-26/gm-breaks-with-trump-in-call-for-national-electric-car-mandate
>> GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate
>> October 25, 2018  Automaker pitches U.S. rule to spur more EV sales 
>> through
>> 2030 ... GM says a nationwide program could put 7 million long-range
>> electric cars on the road and slash 375 million tons of carbon dioxide
>> emissions by 2030, compared with existing zero-emission vehicle mandates 
>> ...
>> 
>> 
>> GM Wants Trump Administration To Back National Electric Vehicle ...
>> International Business Times-31 minutes ago
>> General Motors 

Re: [EVDL] Automaker pitches (Call for nationwide U.S. EV Mandate) woo

[Peri Hartman via EV]

It is a better article, but it's still not clear what GM's true motive 
is. It says: "unified standard," but that new standard would be lower 
than California's current standard.


Is this a gamble compromise, on behalf of GM? Outcomes could be:
- retain the existing standards; probably costs GM more than lower 
standards.
- have two standards; GM explicitly states it doesn't want this, too 
expensive to manage.
- have a lower universal standard; a calculated risk: this is a test of 
California's authority, which could end up in the supreme court. But, if 
successful, probably more profitable for GM than the other two options.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "paul dove via EV" 
To: "Mark Abramowitz" 
Cc: "paul dove" ; "Electric Vehicle Discussion 
List" 

Sent: 27-Oct-18 4:32:35 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Automaker pitches (Call for nationwide U.S. EV 
Mandate) woo



This article spells it out better.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.freep.com/amp/1772182002

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 26, 2018, at 9:06 PM, Mark Abramowitz  
wrote:


I’m not following you. Lower emission standards are MORE costly, 
right?


Even if not, I can see how you want to call it a bailout, but I guess 
that’s the case with any regulatory scheme. But I never hear it called 
a bailout.


As far as Tesla, it’s hard to say the impact. Up until a certain 
point, the more folks out there with the new technology, everybody 
benefits. At some point (have we reached it yet?), these things make a 
difference in the opposite direction.


But this is what we want, isn’t it? We’ve put in lots of incentives 
for electric drive, and gee, companies are taking advantage of them!


Weakening of other standards is another story.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone


On Oct 26, 2018, at 9:36 AM, paul dove  wrote:

Read between the lines. They want to have lower emission standards on 
their trucks and SUVs so it will lower the cost and increase profits 
to supplement their electric vehicle programs. Same thing as a 
bailout. What does that do to companies like Tesla.


Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 26, 2018, at 10:42 AM, Mark Abramowitz 
 wrote:


I appreciate the cynicism, but I find no evidence of that.

That article is old, but I suspect that the data still applies. It 
says nothing about a government bailout.


So they are losing money on the Bolt. The Prius lost money for 10 
years, but is Toyota’s most popular car. These folks are in it for 
the long game, and have been investing in both types of EVs.


- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

On Oct 26, 2018, at 4:04 AM, Paul Dove via EV  
wrote:


Of course they do because they are losing money on the bolt. Need 
another government bailout.

https://www.inverse.com/article/32239-why-gm-loses-money-chevy-bolt

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 26, 2018, at 2:03 AM, brucedp5 via EV  
wrote:




https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-26/gm-breaks-with-trump-in-call-for-national-electric-car-mandate
GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate
October 25, 2018  Automaker pitches U.S. rule to spur more EV 
sales through
2030 ... GM says a nationwide program could put 7 million 
long-range
electric cars on the road and slash 375 million tons of carbon 
dioxide
emissions by 2030, compared with existing zero-emission vehicle 
mandates ...



GM Wants Trump Administration To Back National Electric Vehicle 
...

International Business Times-31 minutes ago
General Motors Co said on Friday it wants the Trump administration 
to back a
nationwide program to boost the sale of zero emission vehicles 
like electric

...

GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate
Bloomberg-42 minutes ago
The Trump administration wants to end California's requirement for
automakers to sell more electric cars in the state each year. 
America's

biggest automaker has ...

GM proposes nationwide zero-emissions vehicle sales mandate
WHSV-1 hour ago
California sets the requirements based on a complex formula that 
considers
the total number of vehicles sold by an automaker and gives 
credits for

fully electric ...

General Motors CEO: We call for federal electric and zero-emission 
...

USA TODAY-1 hour ago
It will create jobs through the expansion of battery and electric 
vehicle
research and development and production, improve the environment 
and make

electric ...


https://www.google.com/search?q=Breaks+With+Trump+in+Call+for+National+Electric+Car+Mandate


2 hours ago - The Trump administration wants to end California's 
requirement
for automakers to sell more electric cars in the state each year. 
America's

...

GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate ...
www.wiredfocus.com › electric cars
51 mins ago

GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate ...
www.techheadlines.us › electric cars
51 mins ago

[dated]
Trump's rol

Re: [EVDL] Automaker pitches (Call for nationwide U.S. EV Mandate) woo

[paul dove via EV]

This article spells it out better.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.freep.com/amp/1772182002

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 26, 2018, at 9:06 PM, Mark Abramowitz  wrote:
> 
> I’m not following you. Lower emission standards are MORE costly, right?
> 
> Even if not, I can see how you want to call it a bailout, but I guess that’s 
> the case with any regulatory scheme. But I never hear it called a bailout.
> 
> As far as Tesla, it’s hard to say the impact. Up until a certain point, the 
> more folks out there with the new technology, everybody benefits. At some 
> point (have we reached it yet?), these things make a difference in the 
> opposite direction.
> 
> But this is what we want, isn’t it? We’ve put in lots of incentives for 
> electric drive, and gee, companies are taking advantage of them!
> 
> Weakening of other standards is another story.
> 
> - Mark
> 
> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 26, 2018, at 9:36 AM, paul dove  wrote:
>> 
>> Read between the lines. They want to have lower emission standards on their 
>> trucks and SUVs so it will lower the cost and increase profits to supplement 
>> their electric vehicle programs. Same thing as a bailout. What does that do 
>> to companies like Tesla. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 26, 2018, at 10:42 AM, Mark Abramowitz  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I appreciate the cynicism, but I find no evidence of that. 
>>> 
>>> That article is old, but I suspect that the data still applies. It says 
>>> nothing about a government bailout.
>>> 
>>> So they are losing money on the Bolt. The Prius lost money for 10 years, 
>>> but is Toyota’s most popular car. These folks are in it for the long game, 
>>> and have been investing in both types of EVs.
>>> 
>>> - Mark
>>> 
>>> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 26, 2018, at 4:04 AM, Paul Dove via EV  wrote:
 
 Of course they do because they are losing money on the bolt. Need another 
 government bailout. 
 https://www.inverse.com/article/32239-why-gm-loses-money-chevy-bolt
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
> On Oct 26, 2018, at 2:03 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-26/gm-breaks-with-trump-in-call-for-national-electric-car-mandate
> GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate
> October 25, 2018  Automaker pitches U.S. rule to spur more EV sales 
> through
> 2030 ... GM says a nationwide program could put 7 million long-range
> electric cars on the road and slash 375 million tons of carbon dioxide
> emissions by 2030, compared with existing zero-emission vehicle mandates 
> ...
> 
> 
> GM Wants Trump Administration To Back National Electric Vehicle ...
> International Business Times-31 minutes ago
> General Motors Co said on Friday it wants the Trump administration to 
> back a
> nationwide program to boost the sale of zero emission vehicles like 
> electric
> ...
> 
> GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate
> Bloomberg-42 minutes ago
> The Trump administration wants to end California's requirement for
> automakers to sell more electric cars in the state each year. America's
> biggest automaker has ...
> 
> GM proposes nationwide zero-emissions vehicle sales mandate
> WHSV-1 hour ago
> California sets the requirements based on a complex formula that considers
> the total number of vehicles sold by an automaker and gives credits for
> fully electric ...
> 
> General Motors CEO: We call for federal electric and zero-emission ...
> USA TODAY-1 hour ago
> It will create jobs through the expansion of battery and electric vehicle
> research and development and production, improve the environment and make
> electric ...
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=Breaks+With+Trump+in+Call+for+National+Electric+Car+Mandate
> 
> 
> 2 hours ago - The Trump administration wants to end California's 
> requirement
> for automakers to sell more electric cars in the state each year. 
> America's
> ...
> 
> GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate ...
> www.wiredfocus.com › electric cars
> 51 mins ago 
> 
> GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate ...
> www.techheadlines.us › electric cars
> 51 mins ago 
> 
> [dated]
> Trump's rollback could zap California's electric car industry ...
> https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article215984510.html
> Aug 2, 2018 
> 
> Trump is going after California's clean car mandate | TechCrunch
> https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/.../trump-is-going-after-californias-clean-car-mandate...
> Jul 23, 2018 
> 
> California wants more electric cars. The Trump administration doesn't ...
> www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-fuel-standar

Re: [EVDL] Automaker pitches (Call for nationwide U.S. EV Mandate) woo

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

I’m not following you. Lower emission standards are MORE costly, right?

Even if not, I can see how you want to call it a bailout, but I guess that’s 
the case with any regulatory scheme. But I never hear it called a bailout.

As far as Tesla, it’s hard to say the impact. Up until a certain point, the 
more folks out there with the new technology, everybody benefits. At some point 
(have we reached it yet?), these things make a difference in the opposite 
direction.

But this is what we want, isn’t it? We’ve put in lots of incentives for 
electric drive, and gee, companies are taking advantage of them!

Weakening of other standards is another story.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Oct 26, 2018, at 9:36 AM, paul dove  wrote:
> 
> Read between the lines. They want to have lower emission standards on their 
> trucks and SUVs so it will lower the cost and increase profits to supplement 
> their electric vehicle programs. Same thing as a bailout. What does that do 
> to companies like Tesla. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 26, 2018, at 10:42 AM, Mark Abramowitz  wrote:
>> 
>> I appreciate the cynicism, but I find no evidence of that. 
>> 
>> That article is old, but I suspect that the data still applies. It says 
>> nothing about a government bailout.
>> 
>> So they are losing money on the Bolt. The Prius lost money for 10 years, but 
>> is Toyota’s most popular car. These folks are in it for the long game, and 
>> have been investing in both types of EVs.
>> 
>> - Mark
>> 
>> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 26, 2018, at 4:04 AM, Paul Dove via EV  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Of course they do because they are losing money on the bolt. Need another 
>>> government bailout. 
>>> https://www.inverse.com/article/32239-why-gm-loses-money-chevy-bolt
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
 On Oct 26, 2018, at 2:03 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
 
 
 
 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-26/gm-breaks-with-trump-in-call-for-national-electric-car-mandate
 GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate
 October 25, 2018  Automaker pitches U.S. rule to spur more EV sales through
 2030 ... GM says a nationwide program could put 7 million long-range
 electric cars on the road and slash 375 million tons of carbon dioxide
 emissions by 2030, compared with existing zero-emission vehicle mandates 
 ...
 
 
 GM Wants Trump Administration To Back National Electric Vehicle ...
 International Business Times-31 minutes ago
 General Motors Co said on Friday it wants the Trump administration to back 
 a
 nationwide program to boost the sale of zero emission vehicles like 
 electric
 ...
 
 GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate
 Bloomberg-42 minutes ago
 The Trump administration wants to end California's requirement for
 automakers to sell more electric cars in the state each year. America's
 biggest automaker has ...
 
 GM proposes nationwide zero-emissions vehicle sales mandate
 WHSV-1 hour ago
 California sets the requirements based on a complex formula that considers
 the total number of vehicles sold by an automaker and gives credits for
 fully electric ...
 
 General Motors CEO: We call for federal electric and zero-emission ...
 USA TODAY-1 hour ago
 It will create jobs through the expansion of battery and electric vehicle
 research and development and production, improve the environment and make
 electric ...
 
 
 https://www.google.com/search?q=Breaks+With+Trump+in+Call+for+National+Electric+Car+Mandate
 
 
 2 hours ago - The Trump administration wants to end California's 
 requirement
 for automakers to sell more electric cars in the state each year. America's
 ...
 
 GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate ...
 www.wiredfocus.com › electric cars
 51 mins ago 
 
 GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate ...
 www.techheadlines.us › electric cars
 51 mins ago 
 
 [dated]
 Trump's rollback could zap California's electric car industry ...
 https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article215984510.html
 Aug 2, 2018 
 
 Trump is going after California's clean car mandate | TechCrunch
 https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/.../trump-is-going-after-californias-clean-car-mandate...
 Jul 23, 2018 
 
 California wants more electric cars. The Trump administration doesn't ...
 www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-fuel-standards-fight-20180202-story.html
 Feb 2, 2018 
 
 Electric Vehicles: Government Mandates Threaten Customers ...
 https://www.nationalreview.com/.../electric-cars-government-mandates-threaten-custo...
 Feb 26, 2018
 
 
 
 
 For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
 http://evdl.org/archive/
 
>>>

Re: [EVDL] Automaker pitches (Call for nationwide U.S. EV Mandate) woo

[paul dove via EV]

They want to have lower emission standards on their trucks and SUVs so it will 
lower the cost and increase profits to supplement their electric vehicle 
programs. Same thing as a bailout. What does that do to companies like Tesla. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 26, 2018, at 10:42 AM, Mark Abramowitz  wrote:
> 
> I appreciate the cynicism, but I find no evidence of that. 
> 
> That article is old, but I suspect that the data still applies. It says 
> nothing about a government bailout.
> 
> So they are losing money on the Bolt. The Prius lost money for 10 years, but 
> is Toyota’s most popular car. These folks are in it for the long game, and 
> have been investing in both types of EVs.
> 
> - Mark
> 
> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 26, 2018, at 4:04 AM, Paul Dove via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> Of course they do because they are losing money on the bolt. Need another 
>> government bailout. 
>> https://www.inverse.com/article/32239-why-gm-loses-money-chevy-bolt
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Oct 26, 2018, at 2:03 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-26/gm-breaks-with-trump-in-call-for-national-electric-car-mandate
>>> GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate
>>> October 25, 2018  Automaker pitches U.S. rule to spur more EV sales through
>>> 2030 ... GM says a nationwide program could put 7 million long-range
>>> electric cars on the road and slash 375 million tons of carbon dioxide
>>> emissions by 2030, compared with existing zero-emission vehicle mandates ...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> GM Wants Trump Administration To Back National Electric Vehicle ...
>>> International Business Times-31 minutes ago
>>> General Motors Co said on Friday it wants the Trump administration to back a
>>> nationwide program to boost the sale of zero emission vehicles like electric
>>> ...
>>> 
>>> GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate
>>> Bloomberg-42 minutes ago
>>> The Trump administration wants to end California's requirement for
>>> automakers to sell more electric cars in the state each year. America's
>>> biggest automaker has ...
>>> 
>>> GM proposes nationwide zero-emissions vehicle sales mandate
>>> WHSV-1 hour ago
>>> California sets the requirements based on a complex formula that considers
>>> the total number of vehicles sold by an automaker and gives credits for
>>> fully electric ...
>>> 
>>> General Motors CEO: We call for federal electric and zero-emission ...
>>> USA TODAY-1 hour ago
>>> It will create jobs through the expansion of battery and electric vehicle
>>> research and development and production, improve the environment and make
>>> electric ...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> https://www.google.com/search?q=Breaks+With+Trump+in+Call+for+National+Electric+Car+Mandate
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 2 hours ago - The Trump administration wants to end California's requirement
>>> for automakers to sell more electric cars in the state each year. America's
>>> ...
>>> 
>>> GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate ...
>>> www.wiredfocus.com › electric cars
>>> 51 mins ago 
>>> 
>>> GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate ...
>>> www.techheadlines.us › electric cars
>>> 51 mins ago 
>>> 
>>> [dated]
>>> Trump's rollback could zap California's electric car industry ...
>>> https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article215984510.html
>>> Aug 2, 2018 
>>> 
>>> Trump is going after California's clean car mandate | TechCrunch
>>> https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/.../trump-is-going-after-californias-clean-car-mandate...
>>> Jul 23, 2018 
>>> 
>>> California wants more electric cars. The Trump administration doesn't ...
>>> www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-fuel-standards-fight-20180202-story.html
>>> Feb 2, 2018 
>>> 
>>> Electric Vehicles: Government Mandates Threaten Customers ...
>>> https://www.nationalreview.com/.../electric-cars-government-mandates-threaten-custo...
>>> Feb 26, 2018
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>>> http://evdl.org/archive/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
>>> ___
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>> 
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>> 
>> ___
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>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> 
>> 
> 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.e

Re: [EVDL] Automaker pitches (Call for nationwide U.S. EV Mandate) woo

[paul dove via EV]

Read between the lines. They want to have lower emission standards on their 
trucks and SUVs so it will lower the cost and increase profits to supplement 
their electric vehicle programs. Same thing as a bailout. What does that do to 
companies like Tesla. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 26, 2018, at 10:42 AM, Mark Abramowitz  wrote:
> 
> I appreciate the cynicism, but I find no evidence of that. 
> 
> That article is old, but I suspect that the data still applies. It says 
> nothing about a government bailout.
> 
> So they are losing money on the Bolt. The Prius lost money for 10 years, but 
> is Toyota’s most popular car. These folks are in it for the long game, and 
> have been investing in both types of EVs.
> 
> - Mark
> 
> Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 26, 2018, at 4:04 AM, Paul Dove via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> Of course they do because they are losing money on the bolt. Need another 
>> government bailout. 
>> https://www.inverse.com/article/32239-why-gm-loses-money-chevy-bolt
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Oct 26, 2018, at 2:03 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-26/gm-breaks-with-trump-in-call-for-national-electric-car-mandate
>>> GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate
>>> October 25, 2018  Automaker pitches U.S. rule to spur more EV sales through
>>> 2030 ... GM says a nationwide program could put 7 million long-range
>>> electric cars on the road and slash 375 million tons of carbon dioxide
>>> emissions by 2030, compared with existing zero-emission vehicle mandates ...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> GM Wants Trump Administration To Back National Electric Vehicle ...
>>> International Business Times-31 minutes ago
>>> General Motors Co said on Friday it wants the Trump administration to back a
>>> nationwide program to boost the sale of zero emission vehicles like electric
>>> ...
>>> 
>>> GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate
>>> Bloomberg-42 minutes ago
>>> The Trump administration wants to end California's requirement for
>>> automakers to sell more electric cars in the state each year. America's
>>> biggest automaker has ...
>>> 
>>> GM proposes nationwide zero-emissions vehicle sales mandate
>>> WHSV-1 hour ago
>>> California sets the requirements based on a complex formula that considers
>>> the total number of vehicles sold by an automaker and gives credits for
>>> fully electric ...
>>> 
>>> General Motors CEO: We call for federal electric and zero-emission ...
>>> USA TODAY-1 hour ago
>>> It will create jobs through the expansion of battery and electric vehicle
>>> research and development and production, improve the environment and make
>>> electric ...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> https://www.google.com/search?q=Breaks+With+Trump+in+Call+for+National+Electric+Car+Mandate
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 2 hours ago - The Trump administration wants to end California's requirement
>>> for automakers to sell more electric cars in the state each year. America's
>>> ...
>>> 
>>> GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate ...
>>> www.wiredfocus.com › electric cars
>>> 51 mins ago 
>>> 
>>> GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate ...
>>> www.techheadlines.us › electric cars
>>> 51 mins ago 
>>> 
>>> [dated]
>>> Trump's rollback could zap California's electric car industry ...
>>> https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article215984510.html
>>> Aug 2, 2018 
>>> 
>>> Trump is going after California's clean car mandate | TechCrunch
>>> https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/.../trump-is-going-after-californias-clean-car-mandate...
>>> Jul 23, 2018 
>>> 
>>> California wants more electric cars. The Trump administration doesn't ...
>>> www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-fuel-standards-fight-20180202-story.html
>>> Feb 2, 2018 
>>> 
>>> Electric Vehicles: Government Mandates Threaten Customers ...
>>> https://www.nationalreview.com/.../electric-cars-government-mandates-threaten-custo...
>>> Feb 26, 2018
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>>> http://evdl.org/archive/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
>>> ___
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>>> 
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>> 
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>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> 
>> 
> 

___
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index

Re: [EVDL] Automaker pitches (Call for nationwide U.S. EV Mandate) woo

[Lee Hart via EV]

Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

I don't particularly find GM to be altruistic. Am I right, reading
between the lines, the GM fears a repeat of the Japanese takeover in the
'70s ? This time around, VW and other European manufacturers are ramping
up to an all-EV fleet. If they succeed, my guess is they will outsell
gas cars, even in the U.S. GM is sniffing the wind.


I agree. Big corporations aren't about altruism; they're about profit. 
GM has simply decided there is more profit in staying in the EV market 
than in getting out.


I'd guess they spent a lot on EV tooling, and will lose it if they don't 
sell enough EVs to recover it.


GM is so big that it is a "nation" onto itself. They pay little 
attention to what the other automaker "nations" do, and are influenced 
more by their own internal politics.


--
Obsolete (Ob-so-LETE). Adjective. 1. Something that is simple,
reliable, straightforward, readily available, easy to use, and
affordable. 2. Not what the salesman wants you to buy.
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
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Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Re: [EVDL] Automaker pitches (Call for nationwide U.S. EV Mandate) woo

[Mark Abramowitz via EV]

 I appreciate the cynicism, but I find no evidence of that. 

That article is old, but I suspect that the data still applies. It says nothing 
about a government bailout.

So they are losing money on the Bolt. The Prius lost money for 10 years, but is 
Toyota’s most popular car. These folks are in it for the long game, and have 
been investing in both types of EVs.

- Mark

Sent from my Fuel Cell powered iPhone

> On Oct 26, 2018, at 4:04 AM, Paul Dove via EV  wrote:
> 
> Of course they do because they are losing money on the bolt. Need another 
> government bailout. 
> https://www.inverse.com/article/32239-why-gm-loses-money-chevy-bolt
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Oct 26, 2018, at 2:03 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-26/gm-breaks-with-trump-in-call-for-national-electric-car-mandate
>> GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate
>> October 25, 2018  Automaker pitches U.S. rule to spur more EV sales through
>> 2030 ... GM says a nationwide program could put 7 million long-range
>> electric cars on the road and slash 375 million tons of carbon dioxide
>> emissions by 2030, compared with existing zero-emission vehicle mandates ...
>> 
>> 
>> GM Wants Trump Administration To Back National Electric Vehicle ...
>> International Business Times-31 minutes ago
>> General Motors Co said on Friday it wants the Trump administration to back a
>> nationwide program to boost the sale of zero emission vehicles like electric
>> ...
>> 
>> GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate
>> Bloomberg-42 minutes ago
>> The Trump administration wants to end California's requirement for
>> automakers to sell more electric cars in the state each year. America's
>> biggest automaker has ...
>> 
>> GM proposes nationwide zero-emissions vehicle sales mandate
>> WHSV-1 hour ago
>> California sets the requirements based on a complex formula that considers
>> the total number of vehicles sold by an automaker and gives credits for
>> fully electric ...
>> 
>> General Motors CEO: We call for federal electric and zero-emission ...
>> USA TODAY-1 hour ago
>> It will create jobs through the expansion of battery and electric vehicle
>> research and development and production, improve the environment and make
>> electric ...
>> 
>> 
>> https://www.google.com/search?q=Breaks+With+Trump+in+Call+for+National+Electric+Car+Mandate
>> 
>> 
>> 2 hours ago - The Trump administration wants to end California's requirement
>> for automakers to sell more electric cars in the state each year. America's
>> ...
>> 
>> GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate ...
>> www.wiredfocus.com › electric cars
>> 51 mins ago 
>> 
>> GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate ...
>> www.techheadlines.us › electric cars
>> 51 mins ago 
>> 
>> [dated]
>> Trump's rollback could zap California's electric car industry ...
>> https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article215984510.html
>> Aug 2, 2018 
>> 
>> Trump is going after California's clean car mandate | TechCrunch
>> https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/.../trump-is-going-after-californias-clean-car-mandate...
>> Jul 23, 2018 
>> 
>> California wants more electric cars. The Trump administration doesn't ...
>> www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-fuel-standards-fight-20180202-story.html
>> Feb 2, 2018 
>> 
>> Electric Vehicles: Government Mandates Threaten Customers ...
>> https://www.nationalreview.com/.../electric-cars-government-mandates-threaten-custo...
>> Feb 26, 2018
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
>> http://evdl.org/archive/
>> 
>> 
>> {brucedp.neocities.org}
>> 
>> --
>> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
>> ___
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
>> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
>> 
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> 
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> Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
> 
> 

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Re: [EVDL] Automaker pitches (Call for nationwide U.S. EV Mandate) woo

[Paul Dove via EV]

Of course they do because they are losing money on the bolt. Need another 
government bailout. 
https://www.inverse.com/article/32239-why-gm-loses-money-chevy-bolt

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 26, 2018, at 2:03 AM, brucedp5 via EV  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-26/gm-breaks-with-trump-in-call-for-national-electric-car-mandate
> GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate
> October 25, 2018  Automaker pitches U.S. rule to spur more EV sales through
> 2030 ... GM says a nationwide program could put 7 million long-range
> electric cars on the road and slash 375 million tons of carbon dioxide
> emissions by 2030, compared with existing zero-emission vehicle mandates ...
> 
> 
> GM Wants Trump Administration To Back National Electric Vehicle ...
> International Business Times-31 minutes ago
> General Motors Co said on Friday it wants the Trump administration to back a
> nationwide program to boost the sale of zero emission vehicles like electric
> ...
> 
> GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate
> Bloomberg-42 minutes ago
> The Trump administration wants to end California's requirement for
> automakers to sell more electric cars in the state each year. America's
> biggest automaker has ...
> 
> GM proposes nationwide zero-emissions vehicle sales mandate
> WHSV-1 hour ago
> California sets the requirements based on a complex formula that considers
> the total number of vehicles sold by an automaker and gives credits for
> fully electric ...
> 
> General Motors CEO: We call for federal electric and zero-emission ...
> USA TODAY-1 hour ago
> It will create jobs through the expansion of battery and electric vehicle
> research and development and production, improve the environment and make
> electric ...
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?q=Breaks+With+Trump+in+Call+for+National+Electric+Car+Mandate
> 
> 
> 2 hours ago - The Trump administration wants to end California's requirement
> for automakers to sell more electric cars in the state each year. America's
> ...
> 
> GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate ...
> www.wiredfocus.com › electric cars
> 51 mins ago 
> 
> GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate ...
> www.techheadlines.us › electric cars
> 51 mins ago 
> 
> [dated]
> Trump's rollback could zap California's electric car industry ...
> https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article215984510.html
> Aug 2, 2018 
> 
> Trump is going after California's clean car mandate | TechCrunch
> https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/.../trump-is-going-after-californias-clean-car-mandate...
> Jul 23, 2018 
> 
> California wants more electric cars. The Trump administration doesn't ...
> www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-fuel-standards-fight-20180202-story.html
> Feb 2, 2018 
> 
> Electric Vehicles: Government Mandates Threaten Customers ...
> https://www.nationalreview.com/.../electric-cars-government-mandates-threaten-custo...
> Feb 26, 2018
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
> http://evdl.org/archive/
> 
> 
> {brucedp.neocities.org}
> 
> --
> Sent from: http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/
> ___
> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
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> 
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Re: [EVDL] Automaker pitches (Call for nationwide U.S. EV Mandate) woo

[Peri Hartman via EV]

I don't particularly find GM to be altruistic. Am I right, reading 
between the lines, the GM fears a repeat of the Japanese takeover in the 
'70s ? This time around, VW and other European manufacturers are ramping 
up to an all-EV fleet. If they succeed, my guess is they will outsell 
gas cars, even in the U.S. GM is sniffing the wind.


Peri

-- Original Message --
From: "brucedp5 via EV" 
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "brucedp5" 
Sent: 25-Oct-18 11:03:14 PM
Subject: [EVDL] Automaker pitches (Call for nationwide U.S. EV Mandate) 
woo





https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-26/gm-breaks-with-trump-in-call-for-national-electric-car-mandate
GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate
October 25, 2018  Automaker pitches U.S. rule to spur more EV sales 
through

2030 ... GM says a nationwide program could put 7 million long-range
electric cars on the road and slash 375 million tons of carbon dioxide
emissions by 2030, compared with existing zero-emission vehicle 
mandates ...



GM Wants Trump Administration To Back National Electric Vehicle ...
International Business Times-31 minutes ago
General Motors Co said on Friday it wants the Trump administration to 
back a
nationwide program to boost the sale of zero emission vehicles like 
electric

...

GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate
Bloomberg-42 minutes ago
The Trump administration wants to end California's requirement for
automakers to sell more electric cars in the state each year. America's
biggest automaker has ...

GM proposes nationwide zero-emissions vehicle sales mandate
WHSV-1 hour ago
California sets the requirements based on a complex formula that 
considers

the total number of vehicles sold by an automaker and gives credits for
fully electric ...

General Motors CEO: We call for federal electric and zero-emission ...
USA TODAY-1 hour ago
It will create jobs through the expansion of battery and electric 
vehicle
research and development and production, improve the environment and 
make

electric ...


https://www.google.com/search?q=Breaks+With+Trump+in+Call+for+National+Electric+Car+Mandate


2 hours ago - The Trump administration wants to end California's 
requirement
for automakers to sell more electric cars in the state each year. 
America's

...

GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate ...
www.wiredfocus.com › electric cars
51 mins ago

GM Breaks With Trump in Call for National Electric Car Mandate ...
www.techheadlines.us › electric cars
51 mins ago

[dated]
Trump's rollback could zap California's electric car industry ...
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article215984510.html
Aug 2, 2018

Trump is going after California's clean car mandate | TechCrunch
https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/.../trump-is-going-after-californias-clean-car-mandate...
Jul 23, 2018

California wants more electric cars. The Trump administration doesn't 
...

www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-fuel-standards-fight-20180202-story.html
Feb 2, 2018

Electric Vehicles: Government Mandates Threaten Customers ...
https://www.nationalreview.com/.../electric-cars-government-mandates-threaten-custo...
Feb 26, 2018




For EVLN EV-newswire posts use:
http://evdl.org/archive/


{brucedp.neocities.org}

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