Re: [EVDL] EVLN: 400kW (1080mph) EVSE new2 GM> (not new-tech 2others)
Indoor sky diving facilities use more than a mega-watt. Shopping centers use far more than this. Half a megawatt is commonplace, believe it or not. They are considering fast chargers this size in New Zealand, but cars have to be set up to use this much charger. There are several car manufacturers and charger manufacturers considering 10 minute 350 to 400 kw charging. Most folks don't really _need_ 400 kw charging, but most folks don't need private jets either. They sell quite a few private jets. Bill D. On 9/6/2018 6:55 PM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: I think it's pretty common to have 13.8kV available to a business location. Usually a step-down transformer is provided at site but in this case, they may want to use 13.8kV directly. The other factor which could make a huge difference is load leveling using a large battery. That would help as long as there's a modest amount of time between charges. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "EVDL Administrator via EV" To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Cc: "EVDL Administrator" Sent: 06-Sep-18 5:21:39 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: 400kW (1080mph) EVSE new2 GM> (not new-tech 2others) On 6 Sep 2018 at 20:00, Alan Arrison via EV wrote: Each charger would require its own electrical substation. Really? I'm far from an expert on electric utility issues, but 400kW is about the total peak capacity of 4 recently built bloated McMansions (main panel == 400 amps at 240 volts). I don't see a substation for every 4 houses in those neighborhoods, but maybe I'm missing something. And of course those houses aren't all running at peak load all the time, either. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: 400kW (1080mph) EVSE new2 GM> (not new-tech 2others)
I think it's pretty common to have 13.8kV available to a business location. Usually a step-down transformer is provided at site but in this case, they may want to use 13.8kV directly. The other factor which could make a huge difference is load leveling using a large battery. That would help as long as there's a modest amount of time between charges. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "EVDL Administrator via EV" To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" Cc: "EVDL Administrator" Sent: 06-Sep-18 5:21:39 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: 400kW (1080mph) EVSE new2 GM> (not new-tech 2others) On 6 Sep 2018 at 20:00, Alan Arrison via EV wrote: Each charger would require its own electrical substation. Really? I'm far from an expert on electric utility issues, but 400kW is about the total peak capacity of 4 recently built bloated McMansions (main panel == 400 amps at 240 volts). I don't see a substation for every 4 houses in those neighborhoods, but maybe I'm missing something. And of course those houses aren't all running at peak load all the time, either. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: 400kW (1080mph) EVSE new2 GM> (not new-tech 2others)
On 6 Sep 2018 at 20:00, Alan Arrison via EV wrote: > Each charger would require its own electrical substation. Really? I'm far from an expert on electric utility issues, but 400kW is about the total peak capacity of 4 recently built bloated McMansions (main panel == 400 amps at 240 volts). I don't see a substation for every 4 houses in those neighborhoods, but maybe I'm missing something. And of course those houses aren't all running at peak load all the time, either. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: 400kW (1080mph) EVSE new2 GM> (not new-tech 2others)
Like a lot of the "new technology" posts, a bunch of PR mumbo-jumbo. Each charger would require its own electrical substation. Efficiencies are already near theoretical limits. Notice the time frame is in the vapor-ware realm. And just what is a solid state transformer? Sheesh, Al On 9/6/2018 1:25 PM, brucedp5 via EV wrote: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/msn/gms-new-charging-technology-to-allow-for-180-miles-of-range-in-10-minutes/ar-BBMIF9t GM's New Charging Technology to Allow for 180 Miles of Range in 10 Minutes September 1, 2018 Rob Stumpf [images https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BBMIHZJ.img?h=351&w=624&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f / Getty Images https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BBMISW4.img?h=355&w=624&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f / TIME ] Electric cars have one large disadvantage when placed side-by-side with their traditional gas-powered rivals: the time it takes to refuel. General Motors has begun a new partnership with Delta Americas to develop a new technology which will charge its upcoming fleet of electric cars in record time. General Motors said it is readying a fleet of 20 electric cars that will be capable of utilizing the newly developed chargers, enabling its vehicles to rapidly recharge their batteries and provide up to 180 miles of range in just 10 minutes. Its partner in the deal, Delta Americas, expects to have the final prototype of its Extreme Fast Charger (XFC) ready by 2020, and GM expects to have its fleet of vehicles ready only three years later, by 2023. The new XFCs are set to outpace both Tesla's Superchargers, which can provide current-generation cars with up to 120-kilowatts of power, as well as Porsche's new 350-kW chargers, by providing an unheard of 400 kW of electricity to the vehicles. The new technology, developed with partner Delta Americas and sponsored by the U.S. Department of Energy, is able to provide a staggering 96.5 percent grid-to-vehicle efficiency, a three percent increase than current technology, partly thanks to the use of solid-state transformers. “We’re thrilled to lead such an important project and have a stellar team of researchers and partners in place that are more than ready to take on the challenge of setting a new standard for EV fast charging,” said M.S. Huang, president of Delta Americas'. “By utilizing solid-state transformer technology, we have the opportunity to create unprecedented charging speed and convenience that will ultimately help support the DOE’s strategic goal of increasing EV adoption across the nation.” The numbers quoted by GM and Delta Americas are theoretical, of course, and are contingent on what is considered to be "tomorrow’s long-range EVs," or vehicles that will provide up to 360 miles of range per charge. As batteries possess a higher charge, they become increasingly difficult to recharge, meaning that it takes less time to charge a battery from zero-to-50 percent than from 50-to-100 percent. Delta Americas believes that its current technology will recharge a next-generation 360-mile range battery to 50 percent in the rated 10 minutes, though they do not specify battery capacity. [© msn.com] ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: 400kW (1080mph) EVSE new2 GM> (not new-tech 2others)
On 6 Sep 2018 at 12:25, brucedp5 via EV wrote: > The new XFCs [provide] 400 kW ... > Delta Americas believes that its current technology will recharge a > next-generation 360-mile range battery to 50 percent in the rated 10 > minutes, though they do not specify battery capacity. I really don't care what they believe. Knowledge makes for much better decisions. So let's see how plausible this "belief" really is. Efficient small car (well done light conversion) 250Wh/mi * 360mi = 90kWh available battery capacity * 50% = 45kWh 45kWh in 10 minutes => 270W. Seems legit. Typical compact EV (Nissan Leaf) 340Wh/mi (EPA rating 2012 Leaf) * 360mi = 122.4kWh available batt capacity * 50% = 61.2kWh 61.2kWh in 10 minutes => 367.2kW. Just makes it. Bloatmobile EV (Tesla Model X) 420Wh/mi (see https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-x/2016/long-term-road-test/2016- tesla-model-x-monthly-update-for-january-2017.html) 420Wh/mi * 360mi = 151.2kWh available battery capacity * 50% = 75.6kWh 75.6kWh in 10 minutes => 453.6kW. Nope. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: 400kW (1080mph) EVSE new2 GM> (not new-tech 2others)
This is exciting. I think this will push the EV sales point past the early adopters part of the bell curve. For people who only own one car, can't charge at home, and drive long distances often enough not to want to rent, this will make a big difference - if GM really follows through. I think that's a large number of people. It also will eliminate one of the main detractors from hydrogen power. Peri -- Original Message -- From: "brucedp5 via EV" To: ev@lists.evdl.org Cc: "brucedp5" Sent: 06-Sep-18 10:25:13 AM Subject: [EVDL] EVLN: 400kW (1080mph) EVSE new2 GM> (not new-tech 2others) http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/msn/gms-new-charging-technology-to-allow-for-180-miles-of-range-in-10-minutes/ar-BBMIF9t GM's New Charging Technology to Allow for 180 Miles of Range in 10 Minutes September 1, 2018 Rob Stumpf [images https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BBMIHZJ.img?h=351&w=624&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f / Getty Images https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BBMISW4.img?h=355&w=624&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f / TIME ] Electric cars have one large disadvantage when placed side-by-side with their traditional gas-powered rivals: the time it takes to refuel. General Motors has begun a new partnership with Delta Americas to develop a new technology which will charge its upcoming fleet of electric cars in record time. General Motors said it is readying a fleet of 20 electric cars that will be capable of utilizing the newly developed chargers, enabling its vehicles to rapidly recharge their batteries and provide up to 180 miles of range in just 10 minutes. Its partner in the deal, Delta Americas, expects to have the final prototype of its Extreme Fast Charger (XFC) ready by 2020, and GM expects to have its fleet of vehicles ready only three years later, by 2023. The new XFCs are set to outpace both Tesla's Superchargers, which can provide current-generation cars with up to 120-kilowatts of power, as well as Porsche's new 350-kW chargers, by providing an unheard of 400 kW of electricity to the vehicles. The new technology, developed with partner Delta Americas and sponsored by the U.S. Department of Energy, is able to provide a staggering 96.5 percent grid-to-vehicle efficiency, a three percent increase than current technology, partly thanks to the use of solid-state transformers. “We’re thrilled to lead such an important project and have a stellar team of researchers and partners in place that are more than ready to take on the challenge of setting a new standard for EV fast charging,” said M.S. Huang, president of Delta Americas'. “By utilizing solid-state transformer technology, we have the opportunity to create unprecedented charging speed and convenience that will ultimately help support the DOE’s strategic goal of increasing EV adoption across the nation.” The numbers quoted by GM and Delta Americas are theoretical, of course, and are contingent on what is considered to be "tomorrow’s long-range EVs," or vehicles that will provide up to 360 miles of range per charge. As batteries possess a higher charge, they become increasingly difficult to recharge, meaning that it takes less time to charge a battery from zero-to-50 percent than from 50-to-100 percent. Delta Americas believes that its current technology will recharge a next-generation 360-mile range battery to 50 percent in the rated 10 minutes, though they do not specify battery capacity. [© msn.com] ... https://www.google.com/search?q=400kW+charging search 400kW charging ... https://www.google.com/search?q=500kW+charging ... https://www.google.com/search?q=600kW+charging ... https://www.google.com/search?q=800kW+charging ... https://www.google.com/search?q=1000kW+charging https://www.caranddriver.com/news/gm-to-dethrone-tesla-as-ev-charge-rate-champ GM Wants to Dethrone Tesla as EV Charge Rate Champ August 31, 2018 180 miles of range in 10 minutes is the target. As electric vehicles continue their march into the mainstream, manufacturers are working overtime to reduce charging times ... https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod/images/2018-chevrolet-boltev-016-1535727218.jpg https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/gm-is-racing-to-be-the-first-manufacturer-to-offer-180-miles-of-ev-range-in-10-minutes/ar-BBMM8Ko?li=BBnb4R5 GM is Racing to be the First Manufacturer to Offer 180 Miles of EV Range in 10 Minutes September 3, 2018 This level of extremely short battery top ups is necessary for the electric car to catch on in appreciable numbers in America ... https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BBMMpg7.img?h=351&w=624&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f https://electrek.co/2018/09/03/gm-delta-400-kw-electric-car-charging/ GM is working on next-gen 400 kW charging with Delta for 180 miles of range in less than 10 minutes Sep. 3rd 2018 While the project has some exciting implications for a faster and more efficient electric vehicle charging future, it is not expected to be commerciali
