Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!

[John Blair via EV]

I’ve had two EV’s like that.  The first was my 1980 ComutaCar that I drove for 
20 years. It held two people and a few bags of groceries, hit 38 mph on the 
flat for about 35 miles. It was a lightweight car, but I loved it. It was great 
in a city. It was not great on hills so when I moved to a rural area with lots 
of steep hills, I sold it.  The next one was a used 2002 Toyota RAV4-EV. We 
pulled the two rear seats out (it seats five) and it was a micro-van. I could 
carry my fire gear and two wet german shepherd dogs without messing anything 
up.  It had a range of up to 100 miles and easily drove on hills and freeways.  
I sold it after I bought my Tesla (needed the long range) and because it was 
losing range and a lack of support.  Both were great cars. In both cases, 
service was ultimately an issue.


John
John Blair



> On May 22, 2021, at 7:53 AM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
> 
> I really wish someone would sell and service a safe "neighborhood" vehicle. 
> Something that holds 2 people, has a high safety rating on streets up to 
> 30mph, and has a range of, say, 30 miles.

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Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!

[Alan Arrison via EV]

I agree with Gary, it is not a win win.

On 5/21/2021 11:07 PM, Gary Krysztopik via EV wrote:

"The Master's tools will never dismantle the Master's house".  This is
Ford's solution to the problem that they created (massively oversized
trucks everywhere).  Their solution must lie within their wheelhouse (pun
intended).  It's a step in the right direction but too little too late.
With respect to the climate emergency we shouldn't praise a micro-step in
the right direction.  They did it because they had to (which is good), but
we need big change.  I'm not celebrating a 6,000 lb electric truck to move
one person around and maybe a sheet of plywood once a year.  We need to
focus on commuter footprint and right-sized vehicles.  What about using 90%
fewer resources (10kwh pack instead of 100kwh) and 90% less life time
energy (500 lb vehicle vs 5,000 lb vehicle) if it can do the same job?

On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 4:18 PM Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield via EV <
ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:


YES! AMEN!


On May 21, 2021, at 2:30 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV 

wrote:

Each 14 MPG gas guzzling pickup commuter that gets taken off the road
for a new F150 Lightening, accomplishes more for the environment and
all of us than maybe three other EV purchases.  So this is a WIN-WIN
all the way around.


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Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 22 May 2021 at 13:04, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

> It's really sad that Rick Woodbury has never been able to get his Tango 
> EV to market .
> 

I hear you!  The Tango was a brilliant but doomed EV.

Maybe if you're really wealthy you could have Rick custom-build you one. I 
may be wrong, but I have a vague recollection that one or two rich 
television stars commissioned Tangos from him for their collections.

Parenthetically: IIRC, at one time, you could have ordered a Sunrise from 
Solectria on the same basis.  I think the cost was somewhere north of $100k, 
which when you think about it isn't that much for a hand-built car.

The closest production EV to the Tango was the Corbin Sparrow.  Used ones 
pop up now and again.  But from what I could tell, the Tango was/is vastly 
superior to the Sparrow.  More stable, for one thing.  

And the Sparrow was for only one person, not for two sitting tandem.  You 
might be able to stuff a little kid behind the seat of a pizza-butt Sparrow, 
but it wouldn't be safe to do so.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

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Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 22 May 2021 at 12:58, Lee Hart via EV wrote:

> Vehicles doing things you'll never do, in places you'll never drive. 

Keith Bradsher quoted someone in the auto business in "High and Mighty, The 
Dangerous Rise of the Suv" (slightly paraphrased since I'm too lazy to dig 
out the book right now), "The only time these vehicles go off road is when 
the owner misses his driveway at 3am."

Yours is an astute observation that automakers' customers aren't us, they're 
the dealers.  But it was the automakers who originally decided to evade the 
US CAFE regulations by heavily advertising trucks and SUVs.  

When they passed the CAFE laws, legislators assumed that those would be 
commercial and specialty vehicles, and subjected them to much less stringent 
regulation.  (Whether that was an appropriate action is debateable, but 
that's how the treated them.)  By the time their error was obvious, the 
makeup of congress had changed, and the legislators were firmly attached to 
short leashes held by the petroleum and auto industries.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

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offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

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 It will always be one of the best jokes of democracy that it 
 gives its deadly enemies the means to destroy it.

   -- Joseph Goebbels
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Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 22 May 2021 at 17:09, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

> Half of leaf would be 87.5, so i-miev is 70% larger than that.

I wonder if somehow Willie got his hands on authentic Japanese-market 
Imievs.  If memory serves, and someone please correct me if it doesn't, the 
Japanese market Imiev really was a Kei-car.  However, the US Imiev was 
considerably enlarged.  Mitsu probably thought that they'd never sell a true 
Kei-car here, and they were probably right.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

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 There's a knob called "brightness," but it doesn't work. 

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Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 22 May 2021 at 17:52, j wickes1 via EV wrote:

> And power your house from the dryer plug when the power goes out, minimal
> modifications required.

I hope you're joking.  There's a reason that such things are called "suicide 
cables."  

However, standby power for your house is a fine idea, as long as you install 
and use a proper transfer panel.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
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 A developed country is not a place where the poor have cars. 
 It's where the rich use public transportation. 

-- Gustavo Petro 
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Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!

[Lee Hart via EV]

Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
That's actually a pretty good option for someone who wants a cheap city 
EV, but it isn't much smaller than the leaf. I'm thinking of something 
that fits in a motorcycle space or sideways in my driveway.
It's really sad that Rick Woodbury has never been able to get his Tango 
EV to market .


The only way to bring it to market is to either be a billionaire, or 
find a billion dollars worth of investors. But the investors don't want 
small inexpensive cars; they want you to build luxury sports cars.


Lee

--
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level of 
thinking that created them." -- Albert Einstein

--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!

[Lee Hart via EV]

Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
I really wish someone would sell and service a safe "neighborhood" 
vehicle. Something that holds 2 people, has a high safety rating on 
streets up to 30mph, and has a range of, say, 30 miles.


So do I. It would cover 90% of my driving needs. I've had to build my 
own EVs for decades. They are OK for me; but I can't hope to compete 
with the level of fit and finish of a professionally designed vehicle.



I guess the demand just isn't here.


As has been said many times, "demand" is a strange thing. The US 
carmakers respond to what their customers want -- and their customers 
are the *dealers*, not the end users. *Dealers* want big flashy 
feature-loaded high-profit vehicles!


The dealers are only indirectly affected by what consumers want. Many of 
us have had the experience of going into a dealership looking for 
something small and simple, and being aggressively pushed toward a much 
bigger and more expensive model. Where I live in the midwest, the dealer 
lots are filled with big SUVs and monster pickups... no EVs, no small 
cars. Maybe a hybrid or two, hidden way in the back of the lot.


Then there are the ads. They are classic works of fantasy and fiction, 
all emotion and illusion. Vehicles doing things you'll never do, in 
places you'll never drive. No information whatsoever on how practical 
the vehicle would be for YOU. The whole point is to convince you to buy 
something you don't need that the vehicle can't deliver.


Announcer: Awesome cornering!
Tiny text: (Driven by professional driver on closed road)
Announcer: World-class off-road performance!
Tiny text: (Off-road driving will void warranty)

Lee

--
A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is
nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
-- Antoine de Saint Exupery
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com

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Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!

[j wickes1 via EV]

This is indeed great!
I gave $100.
It's much taller, heavier and safer than my past EV Rabbit, but for that $30K 
after rebates (in CA) just think of the modifications you can make with all 
that empty space (frunk), a SawzAll and some fiberglass & aluminum.  Everything 
from a chop top, front-end / back end pop-up camper to an electric Batmobile. 
It's like a template for every parade float you can think of, or a recreation 
of the Death-mobile from Animal House that is also a pop-up camper. And power 
your house from the dryer plug when the power goes out, minimal modifications 
required.
This will be much fun for all!
enjoy!
john :-)

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Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!

[Gary Krysztopik via EV]

We've been making a small NEV van (or pickup) but we have not gotten a lot
of interest.  I am pushing to release it as open source and sell frames or
kits instead of "production" vehicles.  Maybe they'll catch on, it
certainly makes sense to have right-sized local vehicles.

Gary

On Sat, May 22, 2021 at 10:09 AM Peri Hartman via EV 
wrote:

> Smaller, for sure. But not even close to half.
> Leaf 175"
> i-miev 148"
>
> Half of leaf would be 87.5, so i-miev is 70% larger than that.
>
> By comparison, the smart ev is 106".
>
> Peri
>
> << Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Willie via EV" 
> To: ev@lists.evdl.org
> Cc: "Willie" 
> Sent: 22-May-21 8:28:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!
>
> >
> >
> >On 5/22/21 10:18 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
> >>That's actually a pretty good option for someone who wants a cheap city
> EV, but it isn't much smaller than the leaf. I'm thinking of something that
> fits in a motorcycle space or sideways in my driveway.
> >
> >Without having measured or searched out specifications, I'll venture
> imievs are about half the length and 3/4 the width of Leafs.  About the
> size of "Smart" cars.  Only slightly bigger than a golf cart.
> >
> >You hope to find single person wide with fore/aft seating?
> >___
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Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!

[Peri Hartman via EV]

Smaller, for sure. But not even close to half.
Leaf 175"
i-miev 148"

Half of leaf would be 87.5, so i-miev is 70% larger than that.

By comparison, the smart ev is 106".

Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

-- Original Message --
From: "Willie via EV" 
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "Willie" 
Sent: 22-May-21 8:28:04 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!




On 5/22/21 10:18 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

That's actually a pretty good option for someone who wants a cheap city EV, but 
it isn't much smaller than the leaf. I'm thinking of something that fits in a 
motorcycle space or sideways in my driveway.


Without having measured or searched out specifications, I'll venture imievs are about 
half the length and 3/4 the width of Leafs.  About the size of "Smart" cars.  
Only slightly bigger than a golf cart.

You hope to find single person wide with fore/aft seating?
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Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!

[Charles Galpin via EV]

I am not sure you can buy the NEV yet, but I know the cars are not yet 
available. But I think these would fit your requirements 

https://www.kandiamerica.com

-- charles

> On May 22, 2021, at 10:53 AM, Peri Hartman via EV  wrote:
> 
> I really wish someone would sell and service a safe "neighborhood" vehicle. 
> Something that holds 2 people, has a high safety rating on streets up to 
> 30mph, and has a range of, say, 30 miles.
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Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!

[Willie via EV]

On 5/22/21 10:18 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
That's actually a pretty good option for someone who wants a cheap city 
EV, but it isn't much smaller than the leaf. I'm thinking of something 
that fits in a motorcycle space or sideways in my driveway.


Without having measured or searched out specifications, I'll venture 
imievs are about half the length and 3/4 the width of Leafs.  About the 
size of "Smart" cars.  Only slightly bigger than a golf cart.


You hope to find single person wide with fore/aft seating?
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Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!

[Peri Hartman via EV]

That's actually a pretty good option for someone who wants a cheap city 
EV, but it isn't much smaller than the leaf. I'm thinking of something 
that fits in a motorcycle space or sideways in my driveway.


Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

-- Original Message --
From: "Willie via EV" 
To: ev@lists.evdl.org
Cc: "Willie" 
Sent: 22-May-21 8:06:06 AM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!




On 5/22/21 9:53 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

I really wish someone would sell and service a safe "neighborhood" vehicle. 
Something that holds 2 people, has a high safety rating on streets up to 30mph, and has a 
range of, say, 30 miles.


AFAIK, a used imiev is your best bet.  They are essentially Japanese "Kei" 
cars. Is that what the tiny Japanese cars are called?  I keep my rear seats folded down 
all the time and, in two passenger mode, the load area is impressive.  They do not have 
the Leaf battery problem; my 2014s are down to about 60 miles from 65-70.  Irritations 
are different wheel and tire sizes front and back.  And not optional creep.
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Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!

[Willie via EV]

On 5/22/21 9:53 AM, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:
I really wish someone would sell and service a safe "neighborhood" 
vehicle. Something that holds 2 people, has a high safety rating on 
streets up to 30mph, and has a range of, say, 30 miles.


AFAIK, a used imiev is your best bet.  They are essentially Japanese 
"Kei" cars. Is that what the tiny Japanese cars are called?  I keep my 
rear seats folded down all the time and, in two passenger mode, the load 
area is impressive.  They do not have the Leaf battery problem; my 2014s 
are down to about 60 miles from 65-70.  Irritations are different wheel 
and tire sizes front and back.  And not optional creep.

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Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!

[Peri Hartman via EV]

I really wish someone would sell and service a safe "neighborhood" 
vehicle. Something that holds 2 people, has a high safety rating on 
streets up to 30mph, and has a range of, say, 30 miles.


China makes lots of vehicles like this but I have no idea on their 
safety and I doubt they can be serviced here.


I guess the demand just isn't here. Perhaps most people need a highway 
capable vehicle and there aren't enough urban areas to justify sales for 
non highway vehicles. I'm not saying there's any chance that F-150 
buyers would switch to tiny cars, though.


Peri

<< Annoyed by leaf blowers ? https://quietcleanseattle.org/ >>

-- Original Message --
From: "Gary Krysztopik via EV" 
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" 
Cc: "Gary Krysztopik" 
Sent: 21-May-21 8:07:12 PM
Subject: Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!


"The Master's tools will never dismantle the Master's house".  This is
Ford's solution to the problem that they created (massively oversized
trucks everywhere).  Their solution must lie within their wheelhouse (pun
intended).  It's a step in the right direction but too little too late.
With respect to the climate emergency we shouldn't praise a micro-step in
the right direction.  They did it because they had to (which is good), but
we need big change.  I'm not celebrating a 6,000 lb electric truck to move
one person around and maybe a sheet of plywood once a year.  We need to
focus on commuter footprint and right-sized vehicles.  What about using 90%
fewer resources (10kwh pack instead of 100kwh) and 90% less life time
energy (500 lb vehicle vs 5,000 lb vehicle) if it can do the same job?

On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 4:18 PM Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield via EV <
ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:


 YES! AMEN!

 > On May 21, 2021, at 2:30 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV 
 wrote:
 >
 > Each 14 MPG gas guzzling pickup commuter that gets taken off the road
 > for a new F150 Lightening, accomplishes more for the environment and
 > all of us than maybe three other EV purchases.  So this is a WIN-WIN
 > all the way around.
 >
 > FINALLY something I can talk about in common with the "good ole boys"
 > Bob
 >
 > Back to the Ford F-150 Lightning - $40-90k before incentives. Doesn’t
 > sound cheap, but it performs better than any F-150 has ever performed,
 > which is exactly what’s needed to generate sales and excitement, and
 > make it *the* F-150 to own.
 >>>>> If it gets people interested in EVs as a cool, high performance
 vehicle, that’s great.
 >>>>> This is a middle America meat and potatoes vehicle.
 >>>>> I see this vehicle as game-changing as the Tesla.
 >>>>>>> I think it will be popular. So much for making efficient vehicles
 - one estimate I read put the small pack at 115kWh. But most buyers won't
 care. They want the F-150 look, the power, and the range. It must weigh a
 ton. No, make that 3 tons.
 >>>>> Same price for the low end model. Lots of intelligent features. This
 is a real competitor to the Cybertruck. Lawrence Rhodes
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Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!

[EVDL Administrator via EV]

On 21 May 2021 at 21:22, Jim Walls via EV wrote:

> Because you didn't want to drive some postage stamp vehicle...
> Or you like me NEED a full size truck...

Tradespeople in every other major industrial democracy do fine with trucks 
as little as half the weight of our pickups.  US prickups carry less cargo 
per unit of energy used than work vehicles (usually vans) almost anywhere 
else.  They're grossly oversized, grossly overpowered, grossly wasteful. 

The majority of people who own these enormous trucks don't need their full 
capacity every day.  Many use that capacity a few times per year at most.  

The rational answer to that situation is the station car concept.  Instead 
of owning a vehicle, you pay for the right to use the vehicle you need day 
to day.  M-F you might commute to work in a subcompact EV or midsize plug 
hybrid.  Every so often you swing by the depot after work on Friday and swap 
it for a pickup truck or van, so you can haul plywood from the lumberyard 
for a home project.  Monday morning you get your EV back.  Twice a year for 
2 weeks you sign up for a 7-place van or ute or even a camper, so you can 
haul the family on vacation in relative comfort.

But that won't fly here, because while I doubt that it's true of most 
EVDLers, many big pickup owners don't really own their vehicles because they 
need them.  They own them because the size and power appeal to their 
antisocial, aggressive emotions.  

The truck manufacturers know that, and deliberately design them for that 
appeal.  Just look at them - massive slablike front ends attached to 
comically small beds, huge wheels, roaring exhausts, beercan-size chrome 
plated phallic tailpipes.  Compare them with the practical, economical vans 
that European and Asian tradespeople drive.  Heck, compare them with the 
more reaonable and practical pickups that Americans drove in the 1960s.

Don't misunderstand me. I think it's good that Ford is going to build an EV 
pickup.  It's just that they could have made it so much more rational.

David Roden, EVDL moderator & general lackey

To reach me, don't reply to this message; I won't get it.  Use my 
offlist address here : http://evdl.org/help/index.html#supt

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
 The only way to achieve a practical, livable peace in a world
 of competing nations is to take the profit out of war.

   -- Richard Nixon, "Real Peace"(1983)
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

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Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!

[Jim Walls via EV]

On 05/21/2021 21:11, John Lussmyer via EV wrote:
Which was one thing that had to be pointed out to a bunch of people 
when I converted my F250 to electric.

I kept getting asked WHY I wanted such a huge inefficient vehicle when I could 
convert some  econobox instead.


Because you didn't want to drive some postage stamp vehicle...
Or you like me NEED a full size truck...

--
73
-
Jim Walls - K6CCC
j...@k6ccc.org
Ofc:  818-548-4804
http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/
AMSAT Member 32537 - WSWSS Member 395

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Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!

[John Lussmyer via EV]

On Fri May 21 14:30:05 PDT 2021 ev@lists.evdl.org said:
>Each 14 MPG gas guzzling pickup commuter that gets taken off the road
>for a new F150 Lightening, accomplishes more for the environment and
>all of us than maybe three other EV purchases.  So this is a WIN-WIN
>all the way around.

Which was one thing that had to be pointed out to a bunch of people when I 
converted my F250 to electric.
I kept getting asked WHY I wanted such a huge inefficient vehicle when I could 
convert some  econobox instead.


--

Try my Sensible Email package!  https://sourceforge.net/projects/sensibleemail/
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Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!

[Rod Hower via EV]

 
“Growth forthe sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.” — Edward 
Abbey
In order tomaintain the endless expansion and infinite growth that capitalist 
economiesrequire, our economy demands ever-increasing levels of extraction, 
productionand consumption. In fact, economists and politicians generally 
believewe need to keep the global economy growing by around 3 percent annually, 
that meaning that the economy needs to double every 20 years —that’s twice as 
much of everything 20 years from now — andthen twice as much as that 20 years 
later.It’s not hard to see how this kind ofexponential, infinite growth is 
impossible on a finite planet — and it’s nosurprise that we’re seeing 
ecosystems collapse. 

On Friday, May 21, 2021, 11:07:31 PM EDT, Gary Krysztopik via EV 
 wrote:  
 
 "The Master's tools will never dismantle the Master's house".  This is
Ford's solution to the problem that they created (massively oversized
trucks everywhere).  Their solution must lie within their wheelhouse (pun
intended).  It's a step in the right direction but too little too late.
With respect to the climate emergency we shouldn't praise a micro-step in
the right direction.  They did it because they had to (which is good), but
we need big change.  I'm not celebrating a 6,000 lb electric truck to move
one person around and maybe a sheet of plywood once a year.  We need to
focus on commuter footprint and right-sized vehicles.  What about using 90%
fewer resources (10kwh pack instead of 100kwh) and 90% less life time
energy (500 lb vehicle vs 5,000 lb vehicle) if it can do the same job?

On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 4:18 PM Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield via EV <
ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> YES! AMEN!
>
> > On May 21, 2021, at 2:30 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV 
> wrote:
> >
> > Each 14 MPG gas guzzling pickup commuter that gets taken off the road
> > for a new F150 Lightening, accomplishes more for the environment and
> > all of us than maybe three other EV purchases.  So this is a WIN-WIN
> > all the way around.
> >
> > FINALLY something I can talk about in common with the "good ole boys"
> > Bob
> >
> > Back to the Ford F-150 Lightning - $40-90k before incentives. Doesn’t
> > sound cheap, but it performs better than any F-150 has ever performed,
> > which is exactly what’s needed to generate sales and excitement, and
> > make it *the* F-150 to own.
> > If it gets people interested in EVs as a cool, high performance
> vehicle, that’s great.
> > This is a middle America meat and potatoes vehicle.
> > I see this vehicle as game-changing as the Tesla.
> >>> I think it will be popular. So much for making efficient vehicles
> - one estimate I read put the small pack at 115kWh. But most buyers won't
> care. They want the F-150 look, the power, and the range. It must weigh a
> ton. No, make that 3 tons.
> > Same price for the low end model. Lots of intelligent features. This
> is a real competitor to the Cybertruck. Lawrence Rhodes
> > ___
> > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
> > No other addresses in TO and CC fields
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Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!

[Gary Krysztopik via EV]

"The Master's tools will never dismantle the Master's house".  This is
Ford's solution to the problem that they created (massively oversized
trucks everywhere).  Their solution must lie within their wheelhouse (pun
intended).  It's a step in the right direction but too little too late.
With respect to the climate emergency we shouldn't praise a micro-step in
the right direction.  They did it because they had to (which is good), but
we need big change.  I'm not celebrating a 6,000 lb electric truck to move
one person around and maybe a sheet of plywood once a year.  We need to
focus on commuter footprint and right-sized vehicles.  What about using 90%
fewer resources (10kwh pack instead of 100kwh) and 90% less life time
energy (500 lb vehicle vs 5,000 lb vehicle) if it can do the same job?

On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 4:18 PM Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield via EV <
ev@lists.evdl.org> wrote:

> YES! AMEN!
>
> > On May 21, 2021, at 2:30 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV 
> wrote:
> >
> > Each 14 MPG gas guzzling pickup commuter that gets taken off the road
> > for a new F150 Lightening, accomplishes more for the environment and
> > all of us than maybe three other EV purchases.  So this is a WIN-WIN
> > all the way around.
> >
> > FINALLY something I can talk about in common with the "good ole boys"
> > Bob
> >
> > Back to the Ford F-150 Lightning - $40-90k before incentives. Doesn’t
> > sound cheap, but it performs better than any F-150 has ever performed,
> > which is exactly what’s needed to generate sales and excitement, and
> > make it *the* F-150 to own.
> > If it gets people interested in EVs as a cool, high performance
> vehicle, that’s great.
> > This is a middle America meat and potatoes vehicle.
> > I see this vehicle as game-changing as the Tesla.
> >>> I think it will be popular. So much for making efficient vehicles
> - one estimate I read put the small pack at 115kWh. But most buyers won't
> care. They want the F-150 look, the power, and the range. It must weigh a
> ton. No, make that 3 tons.
> > Same price for the low end model. Lots of intelligent features. This
> is a real competitor to the Cybertruck. Lawrence Rhodes
> > ___
> > Address messages to ev@lists.evdl.org
> > No other addresses in TO and CC fields
> > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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>
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Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!

[Nikki Gordon-Bloomfield via EV]

YES! AMEN! 

> On May 21, 2021, at 2:30 PM, Robert Bruninga via EV  wrote:
> 
> Each 14 MPG gas guzzling pickup commuter that gets taken off the road
> for a new F150 Lightening, accomplishes more for the environment and
> all of us than maybe three other EV purchases.  So this is a WIN-WIN
> all the way around.
> 
> FINALLY something I can talk about in common with the "good ole boys"
> Bob
> 
> Back to the Ford F-150 Lightning - $40-90k before incentives. Doesn’t
> sound cheap, but it performs better than any F-150 has ever performed,
> which is exactly what’s needed to generate sales and excitement, and
> make it *the* F-150 to own.
> If it gets people interested in EVs as a cool, high performance vehicle, 
> that’s great.
> This is a middle America meat and potatoes vehicle.
> I see this vehicle as game-changing as the Tesla.
>>> I think it will be popular. So much for making efficient vehicles - 
>>> one estimate I read put the small pack at 115kWh. But most buyers won't 
>>> care. They want the F-150 look, the power, and the range. It must weigh 
>>> a ton. No, make that 3 tons.
> Same price for the low end model. Lots of intelligent features. This is a 
> real competitor to the Cybertruck. Lawrence Rhodes
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> No other addresses in TO and CC fields
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Re: [EVDL] Ford F-150 Reveal - Great for everyone!

[Robert Bruninga via EV]

Each 14 MPG gas guzzling pickup commuter that gets taken off the road
for a new F150 Lightening, accomplishes more for the environment and
all of us than maybe three other EV purchases.  So this is a WIN-WIN
all the way around.

FINALLY something I can talk about in common with the "good ole boys"
Bob

Back to the Ford F-150 Lightning - $40-90k before incentives. Doesn’t
sound cheap, but it performs better than any F-150 has ever performed,
which is exactly what’s needed to generate sales and excitement, and
make it *the* F-150 to own.
> >>> If it gets people interested in EVs as a cool, high performance vehicle, 
> >>> that’s great.
> >>> This is a middle America meat and potatoes vehicle.
> >>> I see this vehicle as game-changing as the Tesla.
> > I think it will be popular. So much for making efficient vehicles - 
> > one estimate I read put the small pack at 115kWh. But most buyers won't 
> > care. They want the F-150 look, the power, and the range. It must weigh 
> > a ton. No, make that 3 tons.
 Same price for the low end model. Lots of intelligent features. This is a 
 real competitor to the Cybertruck. Lawrence Rhodes
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