Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

['Brent Meeker' via Everything List]

On 7/30/2020 3:33 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
Its simply that life is a mixed thing, and this isn't the 20th century 
that we were expecting. All I have to note is that democrat mayors and 
governors are letting their cities burn, and doing mostly nothing. 
It's not a matter of opinion when we can see what is going on.


You only see what the TV networks find worth covering.  They don't cover 
the fact that all of the blocks except the on the federal building is 
on, have nothing happening.  When the local Portland TV station did some 
random man-on-the-street interviews and asked them about how the 
protests were affecting the city, they all said something like, it's not 
affecting anything I do or know about...it's just couple of square blocks.


The only one's censoring to focus on police reaction after BLMTifa 
provocation, are the dem media loyalists. You can kind of surf Twitter 
land to get the un-cut version provided. Like Pat Moynihan once said, 
"we all have a right to our own opinion, but we don't have a right to 
our own facts."  Are there riots, arson, and mayhem, yes or no?


There are no riots.  There has been some arson, since the fed troops 
showed.  Has there been mayhem...yes, committed by said troops clubbing, 
shooting, and gassing peaceful protesters executing their Constitutional 
right to assembly and to petition their government.


Is this violence being committed by racist republicans or by 'mostly 
peaceful' democrats? Seemingly, the later, not the former.


It's committed by a ragtag army of border patrol and federal protection 
cops, who wear not identification.


Brent




-Original Message-
From: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 


To: spudboy100 via Everything List 
Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 4:28 pm
Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election



On 7/30/2020 11:33 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
Eh! Derangement syndrome again. Yet, its democrat politicians 
encouraging the Vanguard of the Proletariat to burn and loot your 
center cities, to say, damage the economy, so orange man won't be 
elected. There is strong evidence of mail ballots mysteriously gone 
missing, so I doubt if the members of the postal union can be trusted 
to deliver ballots.


So you've swallowed a lot of Trump's conspiracy theory lies.

Brent

What I suspect is that beyond legal challenges that are sure to 
occur, whomever appears to win. Thus, what was the US will descend 
into open civil conflict. It's not about the orange real estate dude, 
it's about the rest of us. For instance, I am not a social 
conservative at all. I hold that your Alcor bet might be a smart one, 
or that your estimation that humanity  will cause the development of 
Matrioshka brains, eventually, accurate. As of now, the Vanguard 
Proles are causing discouragement with the archetypal Hillary voter 
(2016) and causing a drop out for Biden, (Kamala) because they really 
don't wish BLM-Antifa governance. Since the police pulled out of the 
Millwaukee convention, I suspect that NOI's Fruit of Islam will do 
the policing there. Call it  a precursor.



-Original Message-
From: John Clark  
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com 


Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 9:56 am
Subject: Trump suggests delaying the election

*Trump just Tweeted:*

"/With Universal Mail-In Voting (not Absentee Voting, which is good), 
2020 will be the most INACCURATE & FRAUDULENT Election in history. It 
will be a great embarrassment to the USA, Delay the Election until 
people can properly, securely and safely vote???/"


Trump floats delaying election despite lack of authority to do so 



John K Clark
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You 

Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

[Alan Grayson]

If the republican Senate can't illegalize choke holds, maybe it's time to 
burn down a few federal courts to send a message. AG

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 4:40:38 PM UTC-6, spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Its happening everywhere the democrats run the center cities, everywhere. 
> Not just Chicago, or Detroit, but everywhere the dem klan rules. Team dem 
> is good with fire and smoke, and perhaps unless your are involved with the 
> DNC Planning Committee (?) the dems at governor and city level are doing 
> what appeal to the democrat voter.  
> Alinsky's Rule 6
> *Rule 6*: A good tactic is one your people enjoy. "If your people aren't 
> having a ball doing it, there is something very wrong with the tactic."
>
> *Rule 8*: Keep the pressure on. Use different tactics and actions and use 
> all events of the period for your purpose. "The major premise for tactics 
> is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure 
> upon the opposition. It is this that will cause the opposition to react to 
> your advantage."
>
> Orange Man didn't fall for the DNC Kent State/Jackson State replay of May 
> 1970. Dude's quite calculating indeed!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Alan Grayson >
> To: Everything List >
> Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 4:21 pm
> Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election
>
> You've been drinking the kool-aid. I've never heard one democratic 
> politician advocating violence. Not one; never. Yet you claim to be a mind 
> reader, by referencing radical Black Panthers of the 1960's as if that 
> represents the BLM. Democrats know that violence will discredit the BLM 
> movement. You want to do a broad-brush denigration of a righteous movement. 
> There are always fringe elements that want violence, but it's people like 
> you who buy Trump's BS and support depriving the vast majority of Americans 
> their First Amendment rights, as what happened in Lafayette Square a few 
> weeks ago. It was patently obvious that the unmarked police were inciting 
> violence. I saw it as it was happening! If DiBlasio isn't doing enough in 
> NYC to curtail violence, he should be called out for it. But this isn't 
> what you're doing. Did it ever occur to you, that there would be less 
> violence if the republicans in the Senate would pass a police reform bill, 
> but they refuse even to outlaw the choke hold? Neither does Trump endorse 
> it. AG 
>
> On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 1:47:24 PM UTC-6, spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Alan, especially relying on mere words, over rational actions, (we're 
> talking 95% lawyers who are politicians here) we can see the policy is. 
> It's a rehash of the Eldridge Cleaver's statement of "Burn Baby Burn!," 
> circa 1965 Watts and Detroit "race: riots. I do remember LA 1992 Riot Fan 
> and provocateur, Rep Maxine Waters, saying similar things last week. When 
> Orange Man says things like "beautiful," I smile and nod because, just 
> because we all were born upon a night, it wasn't last night. Not standing 
> up to people (say, DiBlasio) arresting arsonists and looters on the spot, 
> speaks intent, even, repeated across every democratic party zone (Portland, 
> Seattle, Minneapolis, NYC, Louisville, LA, Denver..etc). The kind of lying 
> about intent was also seen 60-70 years ago during the genuine civil rights 
> marches and integration, Favus, George Wallace, oh, yes and democratic 
> party KKK Kleagle, Senator Robert Byrd from West Virginia. If you need me 
> to, I can look up some dem statements endorsing or sympathizing with 
> rioters, looters, arsonists, and now terrorists (Smells like Weatherman 
> Faction SDS, Symbionese Liberation Army revived, also Black Panthers). I do 
> wonder what Bruno will think when we start breaking apart? Will he have 
> expected this, from such "crazy Ami's," or will it be a shock? Interesting, 
> huh?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Alan Grayson 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 2:53 pm
> Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election
>
> Strong evidence? What is it? Which democrat politicians are encouraging 
> looting? I can't recall a single one advocating that. Not one! AG
>
> On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 12:33:24 PM UTC-6, spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Eh! Derangement syndrome again. Yet, its democrat politicians encouraging 
> the Vanguard of the Proletariat to burn and loot your center cities, to 
> say, damage the economy, so orange man won't be elected. There is strong 
> evidence of mail ballots mysteriously gone missing, so I doubt if the 
> members of the postal union can be trusted to deliver ballots. What I 
> suspect is that beyond legal challenges that are sure to occur, whomever 
> appears to win. Thus, what was the US will descend into open civil 
> conflict. It's not about the orange real estate dude, it's about the rest 
> of us. For instance, I am not a social conservative at all. I hold that 
> your Alcor bet might be a smart one, or that your estimation that 

Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

I mean the material is available elsewhere besides dear old fox. No cutaways by 
the dem-with-byline-mediathe full thing Lawrence. On America being a 
bribe-ocracy, no doubt (oligarch, plutocracy etc), but it is now the funders of 
the democrats (corporation$) that have thrown-in with their employees on the 
streets. I used to be a lifelong democrat, so I am not so opposed to the 
Keynesian balance,and am not addicted to "rugged capitalism," whatever that is? 
However, the oligarchs are now numerically, funding the dems. Speaking of Fox, 
just last week one of the Murdoch boys just pledged 1.3 mil to the Biden 
campaign. 
Beyond the cutting of pies, the human species should be focusing on (not mere 
computing) but science and engineering projects to vastly expand the economy, 
AND save all our butts. We see the soviet socialism of Maduro and Castro and it 
simply causes things to go to shit, because there's no economic vitality. Even 
China has narfed the garthox without US cash-and I am an economic nationalist 
(for now) because it seems to work best for the middle class-not the 
billionaires. 
On the Com v Cap thing, China has both and all owned by the party. What is more 
deadly seems to be Soviet Socialism, because whether, its Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, 
Daddy Kim, we get an abundance of massacres. Now we had this with US slavery 
and the Belgian Congo massacres, but this was strictly pre-20th century. So, 
for a better world, I'll go with technology and the ability to make money from 
it-even tho its "unfair."
For an an on-coming, Robots took our Jobs future, I'd consider funding every 
soul on earth, by expanding lunar mining and also try to expand 
bio-nanotechnology ( I haven't invested because too middle class economically). 
 


-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 7:45 pm
Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

What is the difference between a Republican and a Democrat elected to office? 
Ans: The velocity with which their knees hit the floor when confronted by their 
campaign donors. Political campaigns are financed by banks, financial 
institutions, corporations and the billionaires. They split their donations, 
that way no matter who wins they have leverage. Generally when things are going 
well they support the Reps more with some expectation of tax cuts and more 
dividends. When the economy goes into the tank they tend to support the Dems 
more because they are more willing to pull the Keynesian levers and knobs to 
cover their butts. 
In a communist society the government owns the corporations, and in a 
capitalist society the corporations own the government. I tail to see why 
people are so passionate about this crap. It is all just made up shit meant to 
control people for the benefit of a very few.
The political brain is a bad brain, and it comes in two bad forms. The most 
common are idiots who actually believes this nonsense. The second are the 
sociopaths who are the manipulators and connivers who make this crap work.
I presume this stuff about the demonstrations and against dem mayors is the 
feces coming out of Faux News. 
LC

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 5:47:23 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

No the "mostly peaceful protest ," thing is a deliberate lie, unless my peepers 
are tricking me? It's a mantra by the DNC to sell the idea that the reason a 
court building is burned is because of Trump's "kidnappers," DNC just tried 
this one on monday, after the July 25 weekend riots. Now arson was all the rage 
clear back in May, and there were no troops then. I say, selfishly speaking, 
keep it up, because it is driving a sizable fraction of the dem voting base 
away from the Kamala-Biden ticket, (He'll resign of course!) if He won (wink 
wink). 


-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 4:34 pm
Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

There is no strong evidence of voter fraud with mail-in ballots. There can be a 
few shenanigans, such as somebody marking a ballot for an older family member 
and so forth. There is no evidence of widespread fraud. 
The Democrats have not been encouraging rioting and looting. In Portland the 
protests were generally peaceful until t'Rump sent the BORTAC troops in and 
stirred up the waters and mud. In fact that may be what t'Rump wants so he can 
look like the law and order president. It might also be a rehearsal for a 
power-grab if t'Rump loses the election.
LC

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 1:33:24 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Eh! Derangement syndrome again. Yet, its democrat politicians encouraging the 
Vanguard of the Proletariat to burn and loot your center cities, to say, damage 
the economy, so orange man won't be elected. There is strong evidence of mail 
ballots mysteriously gone missing, so I doubt if the members of the postal 
union can be trusted to deliver ballots. What I suspect is that beyond 

Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

[Lawrence Crowell]

What is the difference between a Republican and a Democrat elected to 
office? Ans: The velocity with which their knees hit the floor when 
confronted by their campaign donors. Political campaigns are financed by 
banks, financial institutions, corporations and the billionaires. They 
split their donations, that way no matter who wins they have leverage. 
Generally when things are going well they support the Reps more with some 
expectation of tax cuts and more dividends. When the economy goes into the 
tank they tend to support the Dems more because they are more willing to 
pull the Keynesian levers and knobs to cover their butts. 

In a communist society the government owns the corporations, and in a 
capitalist society the corporations own the government. I tail to see why 
people are so passionate about this crap. It is all just made up shit meant 
to control people for the benefit of a very few.

The political brain is a bad brain, and it comes in two bad forms. The most 
common are idiots who actually believes this nonsense. The second are the 
sociopaths who are the manipulators and connivers who make this crap work.

I presume this stuff about the demonstrations and against dem mayors is the 
feces coming out of Faux News. 

LC


On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 5:47:23 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

> No the "mostly peaceful protest ," thing is a deliberate lie, unless my 
> peepers are tricking me? It's a mantra by the DNC to sell the idea that the 
> reason a court building is burned is because of Trump's "kidnappers," DNC 
> just tried this one on monday, after the July 25 weekend riots. Now arson 
> was all the rage clear back in May, and there were no troops then. I say, 
> selfishly speaking, keep it up, because it is driving a sizable fraction of 
> the dem voting base away from the Kamala-Biden ticket, (He'll resign of 
> course!) if He won (wink wink). 
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Lawrence Crowell 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 4:34 pm
> Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election
>
> There is no strong evidence of voter fraud with mail-in ballots. There can 
> be a few shenanigans, such as somebody marking a ballot for an older family 
> member and so forth. There is no evidence of widespread fraud.  
>
> The Democrats have not been encouraging rioting and looting. In Portland 
> the protests were generally peaceful until t'Rump sent the BORTAC troops in 
> and stirred up the waters and mud. In fact that may be what t'Rump wants so 
> he can look like the law and order president. It might also be a rehearsal 
> for a power-grab if t'Rump loses the election.
>
> LC
>
> On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 1:33:24 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Eh! Derangement syndrome again. Yet, its democrat politicians encouraging 
> the Vanguard of the Proletariat to burn and loot your center cities, to 
> say, damage the economy, so orange man won't be elected. There is strong 
> evidence of mail ballots mysteriously gone missing, so I doubt if the 
> members of the postal union can be trusted to deliver ballots. What I 
> suspect is that beyond legal challenges that are sure to occur, whomever 
> appears to win. Thus, what was the US will descend into open civil 
> conflict. It's not about the orange real estate dude, it's about the rest 
> of us. For instance, I am not a social conservative at all. I hold that 
> your Alcor bet might be a smart one, or that your estimation that humanity  
> will cause the development of Matrioshka brains, eventually, accurate. As 
> of now, the Vanguard Proles are causing discouragement with the archetypal 
> Hillary voter (2016) and causing a drop out for Biden, (Kamala) because 
> they really don't wish BLM-Antifa governance. Since the police pulled out 
> of the Millwaukee convention, I suspect that NOI's Fruit of Islam will do 
> the policing there. Call it  a precursor. 
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John Clark 
> To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 9:56 am
> Subject: Trump suggests delaying the election
>
> *Trump just Tweeted:*
>
> "*With Universal Mail-In Voting (not Absentee Voting, which is good), 
> 2020 will be the most INACCURATE & FRAUDULENT Election in history. It will 
> be a great embarrassment to the USA, Delay the Election until people can 
> properly, securely and safely vote???*"
>
> Trump floats delaying election despite lack of authority to do so 
> 
>
> John K Clark
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. 
>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
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>  
> 

Re: Sharpiegate

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Yeah, the simplest approach is to determine whether Atomic Energy works of not 
(so to speak) even if Dur Fuhrer agrees that it does? I look forward to any 
treatment or vaccine that does one thing; works! By then we may have Split as a 
nation state, which considering the history of plagues (Justinian's Plague, the 
1348 Bubonic, Smallpox, etc) shouldn't surprise anyone. Maybe well even reach 
the Singularity due to GPT-3 :-)


-Original Message-
From: PGC 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 4:59 pm
Subject: Re: Sharpiegate



On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 10:52:09 PM UTC+2 Brent wrote:

 
 
 On 7/30/2020 1:02 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
  
 Refute this Telmo- 
https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study 
  https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext 
  One viewer here indicated this was not a study-but it is a study indeed 
concluding the benefits of Hydro.  
  Now what do I think? If it works it works, and if it doesn't it doesn't.   
 
 That's just false.  Some things work on some infections in some people using 
some protocols of care.  


Agreed. Ongoing large scale international clinical trials are what they are. 
Nobody claims that they or the papers in their wake are perfect, but to pretend 
that a few tiny studies are "in need of refutation" or that the world's 
epidemiological community is orchestrating conspiracies without evidence like 
some on Twitter and on social media tend to peddle, is naive or evidence of the 
effectivity of disinformation, not evidence of effectivity of medication. 
But if Telmo and/or Mitch need, they can always get in touch with their closest 
epidemiologists/docs and ask for the data and emails, and inform the 
coordinating committee of their findings and worries, citing who they wish. 
While data of the majority of ongoing trials and appropriate epidemiological 
discourse may not be accessible on the net or published ("ongoing" being 
somewhat relevant...), it isn't classified or anything. PGC -- 
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Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

No the "mostly peaceful protest ," thing is a deliberate lie, unless my peepers 
are tricking me? It's a mantra by the DNC to sell the idea that the reason a 
court building is burned is because of Trump's "kidnappers," DNC just tried 
this one on monday, after the July 25 weekend riots. Now arson was all the rage 
clear back in May, and there were no troops then. I say, selfishly speaking, 
keep it up, because it is driving a sizable fraction of the dem voting base 
away from the Kamala-Biden ticket, (He'll resign of course!) if He won (wink 
wink). 


-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 4:34 pm
Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

There is no strong evidence of voter fraud with mail-in ballots. There can be a 
few shenanigans, such as somebody marking a ballot for an older family member 
and so forth. There is no evidence of widespread fraud. 
The Democrats have not been encouraging rioting and looting. In Portland the 
protests were generally peaceful until t'Rump sent the BORTAC troops in and 
stirred up the waters and mud. In fact that may be what t'Rump wants so he can 
look like the law and order president. It might also be a rehearsal for a 
power-grab if t'Rump loses the election.
LC

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 1:33:24 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Eh! Derangement syndrome again. Yet, its democrat politicians encouraging the 
Vanguard of the Proletariat to burn and loot your center cities, to say, damage 
the economy, so orange man won't be elected. There is strong evidence of mail 
ballots mysteriously gone missing, so I doubt if the members of the postal 
union can be trusted to deliver ballots. What I suspect is that beyond legal 
challenges that are sure to occur, whomever appears to win. Thus, what was the 
US will descend into open civil conflict. It's not about the orange real estate 
dude, it's about the rest of us. For instance, I am not a social conservative 
at all. I hold that your Alcor bet might be a smart one, or that your 
estimation that humanity  will cause the development of Matrioshka brains, 
eventually, accurate. As of now, the Vanguard Proles are causing discouragement 
with the archetypal Hillary voter (2016) and causing a drop out for Biden, 
(Kamala) because they really don't wish BLM-Antifa governance. Since the police 
pulled out of the Millwaukee convention, I suspect that NOI's Fruit of Islam 
will do the policing there. Call it  a precursor. 


-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 9:56 am
Subject: Trump suggests delaying the election

Trump just Tweeted:
"With Universal Mail-In Voting (not Absentee Voting, which is good), 2020 will 
be the most INACCURATE & FRAUDULENT Election in history. It will be a great 
embarrassment to the USA, Delay the Election until people can properly, 
securely and safely vote???"

Trump floats delaying election despite lack of authority to do so

John K Clark-- 
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Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Its happening everywhere the democrats run the center cities, everywhere. Not 
just Chicago, or Detroit, but everywhere the dem klan rules. Team dem is good 
with fire and smoke, and perhaps unless your are involved with the DNC Planning 
Committee (?) the dems at governor and city level are doing what appeal to the 
democrat voter. Alinsky's Rule 6Rule 6: A good tactic is one your people enjoy. 
"If your people aren't having a ball doing it, there is something very wrong 
with the tactic."
Rule 8: Keep the pressure on. Use different tactics and actions and use all 
events of the period for your purpose. "The major premise for tactics is the 
development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the 
opposition. It is this that will cause the opposition to react to your 
advantage."
Orange Man didn't fall for the DNC Kent State/Jackson State replay of May 1970. 
Dude's quite calculating indeed!

-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 4:21 pm
Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

You've been drinking the kool-aid. I've never heard one democratic politician 
advocating violence. Not one; never. Yet you claim to be a mind reader, by 
referencing radical Black Panthers of the 1960's as if that represents the BLM. 
Democrats know that violence will discredit the BLM movement. You want to do a 
broad-brush denigration of a righteous movement. There are always fringe 
elements that want violence, but it's people like you who buy Trump's BS and 
support depriving the vast majority of Americans their First Amendment rights, 
as what happened in Lafayette Square a few weeks ago. It was patently obvious 
that the unmarked police were inciting violence. I saw it as it was happening! 
If DiBlasio isn't doing enough in NYC to curtail violence, he should be called 
out for it. But this isn't what you're doing. Did it ever occur to you, that 
there would be less violence if the republicans in the Senate would pass a 
police reform bill, but they refuse even to outlaw the choke hold? Neither does 
Trump endorse it. AG
On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 1:47:24 PM UTC-6, spudb...@aol.com wrote:
Alan, especially relying on mere words, over rational actions, (we're talking 
95% lawyers who are politicians here) we can see the policy is. It's a rehash 
of the Eldridge Cleaver's statement of "Burn Baby Burn!," circa 1965 Watts and 
Detroit "race: riots. I do remember LA 1992 Riot Fan and provocateur, Rep 
Maxine Waters, saying similar things last week. When Orange Man says things 
like "beautiful," I smile and nod because, just because we all were born upon a 
night, it wasn't last night. Not standing up to people (say, DiBlasio) 
arresting arsonists and looters on the spot, speaks intent, even, repeated 
across every democratic party zone (Portland, Seattle, Minneapolis, NYC, 
Louisville, LA, Denver..etc). The kind of lying about intent was also seen 
60-70 years ago during the genuine civil rights marches and integration, Favus, 
George Wallace, oh, yes and democratic party KKK Kleagle, Senator Robert Byrd 
from West Virginia. If you need me to, I can look up some dem statements 
endorsing or sympathizing with rioters, looters, arsonists, and now terrorists 
(Smells like Weatherman Faction SDS, Symbionese Liberation Army revived, also 
Black Panthers). I do wonder what Bruno will think when we start breaking 
apart? Will he have expected this, from such "crazy Ami's," or will it be a 
shock? Interesting, huh?
-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 2:53 pm
Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

Strong evidence? What is it? Which democrat politicians are encouraging 
looting? I can't recall a single one advocating that. Not one! AG

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 12:33:24 PM UTC-6, spudb...@aol.com wrote:
Eh! Derangement syndrome again. Yet, its democrat politicians encouraging the 
Vanguard of the Proletariat to burn and loot your center cities, to say, damage 
the economy, so orange man won't be elected. There is strong evidence of mail 
ballots mysteriously gone missing, so I doubt if the members of the postal 
union can be trusted to deliver ballots. What I suspect is that beyond legal 
challenges that are sure to occur, whomever appears to win. Thus, what was the 
US will descend into open civil conflict. It's not about the orange real estate 
dude, it's about the rest of us. For instance, I am not a social conservative 
at all. I hold that your Alcor bet might be a smart one, or that your 
estimation that humanity  will cause the development of Matrioshka brains, 
eventually, accurate. As of now, the Vanguard Proles are causing discouragement 
with the archetypal Hillary voter (2016) and causing a drop out for Biden, 
(Kamala) because they really don't wish BLM-Antifa governance. Since the police 
pulled out of the Millwaukee convention, I suspect that NOI's Fruit of Islam 
will do 

Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Its simply that life is a mixed thing, and this isn't the 20th century that we 
were expecting. All I have to note is that democrat mayors and governors are 
letting their cities burn, and doing mostly nothing. It's not a matter of 
opinion when we can see what is going on. The only one's censoring to focus on 
police reaction after BLMTifa provocation, are the dem media loyalists. You can 
kind of surf Twitter land to get the un-cut version provided. Like Pat Moynihan 
once said, "we all have a right to our own opinion, but we don't have a right 
to our own facts."  Are there riots, arson, and mayhem, yes or no? Is this 
violence being committed by racist republicans or by 'mostly peaceful' 
democrats? Seemingly, the later, not the former. 


-Original Message-
From: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 
To: spudboy100 via Everything List 
Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 4:28 pm
Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

 
 
 On 7/30/2020 11:33 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
  
 
Eh! Derangement syndrome again. Yet, its democrat politicians encouraging the 
Vanguard of the Proletariat to burn and loot your center cities, to say, damage 
the economy, so orange man won't be elected. There is strong evidence of mail 
ballots mysteriously gone missing, so I doubt if the members of the postal 
union can be trusted to deliver ballots.  
 So you've swallowed a lot of Trump's conspiracy theory lies.  
 
 Brent
 
 
 What I suspect is that beyond legal challenges that are sure to occur, 
whomever appears to win. Thus, what was the US will descend into open civil 
conflict. It's not about the orange real estate dude, it's about the rest of 
us. For instance, I am not a social conservative at all. I hold that your Alcor 
bet might be a smart one, or that your estimation that humanity  will cause the 
development of Matrioshka brains, eventually, accurate. As of now, the Vanguard 
Proles are causing discouragement with the archetypal Hillary voter (2016) and 
causing a drop out for Biden, (Kamala) because they really don't wish 
BLM-Antifa governance. Since the police pulled out of the Millwaukee 
convention, I suspect that NOI's Fruit of Islam will do the policing there. 
Call it  a precursor. 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: John Clark 
 To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
 Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 9:56 am
 Subject: Trump suggests delaying the election
 
   Trump just Tweeted: 
  "With Universal Mail-In Voting (not Absentee Voting, which is good), 2020 
will be the most INACCURATE & FRAUDULENT Election in history. It will be a 
great embarrassment to the USA, Delay the Election until people can properly, 
securely and safely vote???"
   
 Trump floats delaying election despite lack of authority to do so
  
   John K Clark-- 
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Re: Sharpiegate

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

I would say that whomever propagates a potential fix for this problem, or any 
problem, we go with what we know, or what we think we know, since the experts 
have failed us. So, if Hydro is worse then useless-so be it. I mean, old 
adolf's Germany came up with methadone as a substitute for morphine, or 
developed rockets, so should we have ignored what the accomplished because they 
were mass murderers? Thus, if Orange says something that proves wrong, he is 
wrong, and if  correct, he is correct. If he endorsed remdesevir, and it does 
prove efficacious, then it works. If its ineffective, we move beyond it. 


-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 4:23 pm
Subject: Re: Sharpiegate

I am not going to pass judgment on this. I can't really do that. I can only say 
that this is a minority report. The general consensus I am hearing is that a 
compound that changes the pH of blood in a way that slows the progress of a 
protistan responsible for malaria has no influence on a corona virus.
LC

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 3:02:12 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Refute this Telmo-https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study
https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext
One viewer here indicated this was not a study-but it is a study indeed 
concluding the benefits of Hydro. 
Now what do I think? If it works it works, and if it doesn't it doesn't. Do the 
opponents of the old drug in question care if it works? Seemingly no, they are 
just foaming at the mouth because Orange Dude endorsed it. If it doesn't work, 
screw it. If it can help some people, keep it at hand. What does John Clark 
care about? Orange Man Bad!  This has zero to do with fighting the Wuhan flu. 
For the opponents of Orange Man nothing else matters. Civil (US) Conflict? Next 
stop! Take care.


-Original Message-
From: Telmo Menezes 
To: John Clark ; 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 

Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 2:28 pm
Subject: Re: Sharpiegate



Am Do, 30. Jul 2020, um 17:16, schrieb John Clark:


On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:27 AM Telmo Menezes  wrote:



> I disapprove of Trump and everything he stands for as much as you do. I 
> detest him. He is an incompetent narcissist, and his election as the 
> president of the USA was a nightmare come true.


Truer words were never spoken! 


> I think that the current extreme political polarization of all things is 
> doing damage to science. A symptom of this is that the epistemological status 
> of things such as the efficacy of hydroxychloriquine became impossible to 
> determine for those not deeply involved in the field, even if scientifically 
> literate and able to follow the papers.


Crackpots, and in that I would include Trump supporters and 
thehydroxychloroquine cure COVID-19 people, don't just dispute well established 
theories, they dispute the raw data itself. I've had otherwise intelligent 
people tell me that every epidemiologist in the world is wrong, and the entire 
scientific community is wrong, and even insist every bit of data we have about 
COVID-19 is wrong. Why would they do that? Because if the data was right they 
would have to radically change their worldview and face the fact that Donald 
Trump is not doing a good job. Changing one's worldview is quite painful for 
some people.

Nobody can be knowledgeable about everything, so if the vast majority of expert 
specialists in the world on a very complicated subject like epidemiology, 
agrees on something, people who have spent their life studying the subject, 
then I think they are much more likely to be correct then you or I are after 
we've only been studying the matter for 20 minutes or so. That's why people 
read scientific journals and believe that what they say is probably true even 
if they haven't personally carried out the experiments described in them. 
People that we trust, because they have proven to be right in the past, judge 
new research and if they think it's not valid they don't publish it in their 
journals, and if they think it is valid then they do. It's a web of trust, it's 
what the cryptographic program PGP uses to ensure that a public key really 
belongs to the person that it claims to. And history has shown the system, 
although not perfect, works pretty well most of the time, which is a hell of a 
lot better than most things work.

And by the way, I don't think Trump has spent even 20 minutes studying viral 
epidemiology or statistical theory in his entire life. 


I more or less agree with everything you say. That is exactly why I worry that 
incidents such as the Lancet retraction are damaging to the web of trust.

Telmo

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Re: Sharpiegate

[PGC]

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 10:52:09 PM UTC+2 Brent wrote:

>
>
> On 7/30/2020 1:02 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
>
> Refute this Telmo- 
> https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study
>
> https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext
>
> One viewer here indicated this was not a study-but it is a study indeed 
> concluding the benefits of Hydro. 
>
> Now what do I think? If it works it works, and if it doesn't it doesn't. 
>
>
> That's just false.  Some things work on some infections in some people 
> using some protocols of care.  
>

Agreed. Ongoing large scale international clinical trials are what they 
are. Nobody claims that they or the papers in their wake are perfect, but 
to pretend that a few tiny studies are "in need of refutation" or that the 
world's epidemiological community is orchestrating conspiracies without 
evidence like some on Twitter and on social media tend to peddle, is naive 
or evidence of the effectivity of disinformation, *not evidence of 
effectivity of medication*. 

But if Telmo and/or Mitch need, they can always get in touch with their 
closest epidemiologists/docs and ask for the data and emails, and inform 
the coordinating committee of their findings and worries, citing who they 
wish. While data of the majority of ongoing trials and appropriate 
epidemiological discourse may not be accessible on the net or published 
("ongoing" being somewhat relevant...), it isn't classified or anything. PGC
 

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Re: Sharpiegate

['Brent Meeker' via Everything List]

On 7/30/2020 1:02 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:

Refute this Telmo-
https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study

https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext

One viewer here indicated this was not a study-but it is a study 
indeed concluding the benefits of Hydro.


Now what do I think? If it works it works, and if it doesn't it doesn't.


That's just false.  Some things work on some infections in some people 
using some protocols of care.


Brent

Do the opponents of the old drug in question care if it works? 
Seemingly no, they are just foaming at the mouth because Orange Dude 
endorsed it. If it doesn't work, screw it. If it can help some people, 
keep it at hand. What does John Clark care about? Orange Man Bad!  
This has zero to do with fighting the Wuhan flu. For the opponents of 
Orange Man nothing else matters. Civil (US) Conflict? Next stop! Take 
care.



-Original Message-
From: Telmo Menezes 
To: John Clark ; 'Brent Meeker' via Everything 
List 

Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 2:28 pm
Subject: Re: Sharpiegate



Am Do, 30. Jul 2020, um 17:16, schrieb John Clark:


On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:27 AM Telmo Menezes 
mailto:te...@telmomenezes.net>> wrote:



> /I disapprove of Trump and everything he stands for as much as
you do. I detest him. He is an incompetent narcissist, and his
election as the president of the USA was a nightmare come true./


Truer words were never spoken!

> /I think that the current extreme political polarization of all
things is doing damage to science. A symptom of this is that the
epistemological status of things such as the efficacy of
hydroxychloriquine became impossible to determine for those not
deeply involved in the field, even if scientifically literate and
able to follow the papers./


Crackpots, and in that I would include Trump supporters and 
thehydroxychloroquinecure COVID-19 people, don't just dispute well 
established theories, they dispute the raw data itself. I've had 
otherwise intelligent people tell me that every epidemiologist in the 
world is wrong, and the entire scientific community is wrong, and 
even insist every bit of data we have about COVID-19 is wrong. Why 
would they do that? Because if the data was right they would have to 
radically change their worldview and face the fact that Donald Trump 
is not doing a good job. Changing one's worldview is quite painful 
for some people.


Nobody can be knowledgeable about everything, so if the vast majority 
of expert specialists in the world on a very complicated subject like 
epidemiology, agrees on something, people who have spent their life 
studying the subject, then I think they are much more likely to be 
correct then you or I are after we've only been studying the matter 
for 20 minutes or so. That's why people read scientific journals and 
believe that what they say is probably true even if they haven't 
personally carried out the experiments described in them. People that 
we trust, because they have proven to be right in the past, judge new 
research and if they think it's not valid they don't publish it in 
their journals, and if they think it is valid then they do. It's a 
web of trust, it's what the cryptographic program PGP uses to ensure 
that a public key really belongs to the person that it claims to.And 
history has shown the system, although not perfect, works pretty well 
most of the time, which is a hell of a lot better than most things work.


And by the way, I don't think Trump has spent even 20 minutes 
studying viral epidemiology or statistical theory in his entire life.


I more or less agree with everything you say. That is exactly why I 
worry that incidents such as the Lancet retraction are damaging to the 
web of trust.



Telmo

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.
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Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

[Lawrence Crowell]

There is no strong evidence of voter fraud with mail-in ballots. There can 
be a few shenanigans, such as somebody marking a ballot for an older family 
member and so forth. There is no evidence of widespread fraud. 

The Democrats have not been encouraging rioting and looting. In Portland 
the protests were generally peaceful until t'Rump sent the BORTAC troops in 
and stirred up the waters and mud. In fact that may be what t'Rump wants so 
he can look like the law and order president. It might also be a rehearsal 
for a power-grab if t'Rump loses the election.

LC

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 1:33:24 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

> Eh! Derangement syndrome again. Yet, its democrat politicians encouraging 
> the Vanguard of the Proletariat to burn and loot your center cities, to 
> say, damage the economy, so orange man won't be elected. There is strong 
> evidence of mail ballots mysteriously gone missing, so I doubt if the 
> members of the postal union can be trusted to deliver ballots. What I 
> suspect is that beyond legal challenges that are sure to occur, whomever 
> appears to win. Thus, what was the US will descend into open civil 
> conflict. It's not about the orange real estate dude, it's about the rest 
> of us. For instance, I am not a social conservative at all. I hold that 
> your Alcor bet might be a smart one, or that your estimation that humanity  
> will cause the development of Matrioshka brains, eventually, accurate. As 
> of now, the Vanguard Proles are causing discouragement with the archetypal 
> Hillary voter (2016) and causing a drop out for Biden, (Kamala) because 
> they really don't wish BLM-Antifa governance. Since the police pulled out 
> of the Millwaukee convention, I suspect that NOI's Fruit of Islam will do 
> the policing there. Call it  a precursor. 
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John Clark 
> To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 9:56 am
> Subject: Trump suggests delaying the election
>
> *Trump just Tweeted:*
>
> "*With Universal Mail-In Voting (not Absentee Voting, which is good), 
> 2020 will be the most INACCURATE & FRAUDULENT Election in history. It will 
> be a great embarrassment to the USA, Delay the Election until people can 
> properly, securely and safely vote???*"
>
> Trump floats delaying election despite lack of authority to do so 
> 
>
> John K Clark
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com.
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>  
> 
> .
>

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Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

['Brent Meeker' via Everything List]

On 7/30/2020 11:33 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:
Eh! Derangement syndrome again. Yet, its democrat politicians 
encouraging the Vanguard of the Proletariat to burn and loot your 
center cities, to say, damage the economy, so orange man won't be 
elected. There is strong evidence of mail ballots mysteriously gone 
missing, so I doubt if the members of the postal union can be trusted 
to deliver ballots.


So you've swallowed a lot of Trump's conspiracy theory lies.

Brent

What I suspect is that beyond legal challenges that are sure to occur, 
whomever appears to win. Thus, what was the US will descend into open 
civil conflict. It's not about the orange real estate dude, it's about 
the rest of us. For instance, I am not a social conservative at all. I 
hold that your Alcor bet might be a smart one, or that your estimation 
that humanity  will cause the development of Matrioshka brains, 
eventually, accurate. As of now, the Vanguard Proles are causing 
discouragement with the archetypal Hillary voter (2016) and causing a 
drop out for Biden, (Kamala) because they really don't wish BLM-Antifa 
governance. Since the police pulled out of the Millwaukee convention, 
I suspect that NOI's Fruit of Islam will do the policing there. Call 
it  a precursor.



-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 9:56 am
Subject: Trump suggests delaying the election

*Trump just Tweeted:*

"/With Universal Mail-In Voting (not Absentee Voting, which is good), 
2020 will be the most INACCURATE & FRAUDULENT Election in history. It 
will be a great embarrassment to the USA, Delay the Election until 
people can properly, securely and safely vote???/"


Trump floats delaying election despite lack of authority to do so 



John K Clark
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Re: Sharpiegate

[Lawrence Crowell]

I am not going to pass judgment on this. I can't really do that. I can only 
say that this is a minority report. The general consensus I am hearing is 
that a compound that changes the pH of blood in a way that slows the 
progress of a protistan responsible for malaria has no influence on a 
corona virus.

LC

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 3:02:12 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

> Refute this Telmo- 
> https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study
>
> https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext
>
> One viewer here indicated this was not a study-but it is a study indeed 
> concluding the benefits of Hydro. 
>
> Now what do I think? If it works it works, and if it doesn't it doesn't. 
> Do the opponents of the old drug in question care if it works? Seemingly 
> no, they are just foaming at the mouth because Orange Dude endorsed it. If 
> it doesn't work, screw it. If it can help some people, keep it at hand. 
> What does John Clark care about? Orange Man Bad!  This has zero to do with 
> fighting the Wuhan flu. For the opponents of Orange Man nothing else 
> matters. Civil (US) Conflict? Next stop! Take care.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Telmo Menezes 
> To: John Clark ; 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <
> everyth...@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 2:28 pm
> Subject: Re: Sharpiegate
>
>
>
> Am Do, 30. Jul 2020, um 17:16, schrieb John Clark:
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:27 AM Telmo Menezes  
> wrote:
>
>
> > *I disapprove of Trump and everything he stands for as much as you do. 
> I detest him. He is an incompetent narcissist, and his election as the 
> president of the USA was a nightmare come true.*
>
>
> Truer words were never spoken! 
>
> > *I think that the current extreme political polarization of all things 
> is doing damage to science. A symptom of this is that the epistemological 
> status of things such as the efficacy of hydroxychloriquine became 
> impossible to determine for those not deeply involved in the field, even if 
> scientifically literate and able to follow the papers.*
>
>
> Crackpots, and in that I would include Trump supporters and the
> hydroxychloroquine cure COVID-19 people, don't just dispute well 
> established theories, they dispute the raw data itself. I've had otherwise 
> intelligent people tell me that every epidemiologist in the world is wrong, 
> and the entire scientific community is wrong, and even insist every bit of 
> data we have about COVID-19 is wrong. Why would they do that? Because if 
> the data was right they would have to radically change their worldview and 
> face the fact that Donald Trump is not doing a good job. Changing one's 
> worldview is quite painful for some people.
>
> Nobody can be knowledgeable about everything, so if the vast majority of 
> expert 
> specialists in the world on a very complicated subject like epidemiology, 
> agrees on something, people who have spent their life studying the subject, 
> then I think they are much more likely to be correct then you or I are 
> after we've only been studying the matter for 20 minutes or so. That's why 
> people read scientific journals and believe that what they say is probably 
> true even if they haven't personally carried out the experiments described 
> in them. People that we trust, because they have proven to be right in the 
> past, judge new research and if they think it's not valid they don't 
> publish it in their journals, and if they think it is valid then they do. 
> It's a web of trust, it's what the cryptographic program PGP uses to 
> ensure that a public key really belongs to the person that it claims to. 
> And history has shown the system, although not perfect, works pretty well 
> most of the time, which is a hell of a lot better than most things work.
>
> And by the way, I don't think Trump has spent even 20 minutes studying 
> viral epidemiology or statistical theory in his entire life. 
>
>
> I more or less agree with everything you say. That is exactly why I worry 
> that incidents such as the Lancet retraction are damaging to the web of 
> trust. 
>
>
> Telmo
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Everything List" group.
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> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com.
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>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/777296fb-a76b-4b8a-aef6-f8bb70c45aa4%40www.fastmail.com
>  
> 
>  
> .
>

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Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

[Alan Grayson]

You've been drinking the kool-aid. I've never heard one democratic 
politician advocating violence. Not one; never. Yet you claim to be a mind 
reader, by referencing radical Black Panthers of the 1960's as if that 
represents the BLM. Democrats know that violence will discredit the BLM 
movement. You want to do a broad-brush denigration of a righteous movement. 
There are always fringe elements that want violence, but it's people like 
you who buy Trump's BS and support depriving the vast majority of Americans 
their First Amendment rights, as what happened in Lafayette Square a few 
weeks ago. It was patently obvious that the unmarked police were inciting 
violence. I saw it as it was happening! If DiBlasio isn't doing enough in 
NYC to curtail violence, he should be called out for it. But this isn't 
what you're doing. Did it ever occur to you, that there would be less 
violence if the republicans in the Senate would pass a police reform bill, 
but they refuse even to outlaw the choke hold? Neither does Trump endorse 
it. AG

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 1:47:24 PM UTC-6, spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Alan, especially relying on mere words, over rational actions, (we're 
> talking 95% lawyers who are politicians here) we can see the policy is. 
> It's a rehash of the Eldridge Cleaver's statement of "Burn Baby Burn!," 
> circa 1965 Watts and Detroit "race: riots. I do remember LA 1992 Riot Fan 
> and provocateur, Rep Maxine Waters, saying similar things last week. When 
> Orange Man says things like "beautiful," I smile and nod because, just 
> because we all were born upon a night, it wasn't last night. Not standing 
> up to people (say, DiBlasio) arresting arsonists and looters on the spot, 
> speaks intent, even, repeated across every democratic party zone (Portland, 
> Seattle, Minneapolis, NYC, Louisville, LA, Denver..etc). The kind of lying 
> about intent was also seen 60-70 years ago during the genuine civil rights 
> marches and integration, Favus, George Wallace, oh, yes and democratic 
> party KKK Kleagle, Senator Robert Byrd from West Virginia. If you need me 
> to, I can look up some dem statements endorsing or sympathizing with 
> rioters, looters, arsonists, and now terrorists (Smells like Weatherman 
> Faction SDS, Symbionese Liberation Army revived, also Black Panthers). I do 
> wonder what Bruno will think when we start breaking apart? Will he have 
> expected this, from such "crazy Ami's," or will it be a shock? Interesting, 
> huh?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Alan Grayson >
> To: Everything List >
> Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 2:53 pm
> Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election
>
> Strong evidence? What is it? Which democrat politicians are encouraging 
> looting? I can't recall a single one advocating that. Not one! AG
>
> On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 12:33:24 PM UTC-6, spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Eh! Derangement syndrome again. Yet, its democrat politicians encouraging 
> the Vanguard of the Proletariat to burn and loot your center cities, to 
> say, damage the economy, so orange man won't be elected. There is strong 
> evidence of mail ballots mysteriously gone missing, so I doubt if the 
> members of the postal union can be trusted to deliver ballots. What I 
> suspect is that beyond legal challenges that are sure to occur, whomever 
> appears to win. Thus, what was the US will descend into open civil 
> conflict. It's not about the orange real estate dude, it's about the rest 
> of us. For instance, I am not a social conservative at all. I hold that 
> your Alcor bet might be a smart one, or that your estimation that humanity  
> will cause the development of Matrioshka brains, eventually, accurate. As 
> of now, the Vanguard Proles are causing discouragement with the archetypal 
> Hillary voter (2016) and causing a drop out for Biden, (Kamala) because 
> they really don't wish BLM-Antifa governance. Since the police pulled out 
> of the Millwaukee convention, I suspect that NOI's Fruit of Islam will do 
> the policing there. Call it  a precursor. 
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John Clark 
> To: everyth...@googlegroups. com
> Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 9:56 am
> Subject: Trump suggests delaying the election
>
> *Trump just Tweeted:*
>
> "*With Universal Mail-In Voting (not Absentee Voting, which is good), 
> 2020 will be the most INACCURATE & FRAUDULENT Election in history. It will 
> be a great embarrassment to the USA, Delay the Election until people can 
> properly, securely and safely vote???*"
>
> Trump floats delaying election despite lack of authority to do so 
> 
>
> John K Clark
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Everything List" group.
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> email to everyth...@ googlegroups.com.
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Re: Sharpiegate

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Refute this Telmo-https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study
https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext
One viewer here indicated this was not a study-but it is a study indeed 
concluding the benefits of Hydro. 
Now what do I think? If it works it works, and if it doesn't it doesn't. Do the 
opponents of the old drug in question care if it works? Seemingly no, they are 
just foaming at the mouth because Orange Dude endorsed it. If it doesn't work, 
screw it. If it can help some people, keep it at hand. What does John Clark 
care about? Orange Man Bad!  This has zero to do with fighting the Wuhan flu. 
For the opponents of Orange Man nothing else matters. Civil (US) Conflict? Next 
stop! Take care.


-Original Message-
From: Telmo Menezes 
To: John Clark ; 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List 

Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 2:28 pm
Subject: Re: Sharpiegate

#yiv6743898688 p.yiv6743898688MsoNormal, #yiv6743898688 
p.yiv6743898688MsoNoSpacing{margin:0;}#yiv6743898688 p.yiv6743898688MsoNormal, 
#yiv6743898688 p.yiv6743898688MsoNoSpacing{margin:0;}

Am Do, 30. Jul 2020, um 17:16, schrieb John Clark:


On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:27 AM Telmo Menezes  wrote:



> I disapprove of Trump and everything he stands for as much as you do. I 
> detest him. He is an incompetent narcissist, and his election as the 
> president of the USA was a nightmare come true.


Truer words were never spoken! 


> I think that the current extreme political polarization of all things is 
> doing damage to science. A symptom of this is that the epistemological status 
> of things such as the efficacy of hydroxychloriquine became impossible to 
> determine for those not deeply involved in the field, even if scientifically 
> literate and able to follow the papers.


Crackpots, and in that I would include Trump supporters and 
thehydroxychloroquine cure COVID-19 people, don't just dispute well established 
theories, they dispute the raw data itself. I've had otherwise intelligent 
people tell me that every epidemiologist in the world is wrong, and the entire 
scientific community is wrong, and even insist every bit of data we have about 
COVID-19 is wrong. Why would they do that? Because if the data was right they 
would have to radically change their worldview and face the fact that Donald 
Trump is not doing a good job. Changing one's worldview is quite painful for 
some people.

Nobody can be knowledgeable about everything, so if the vast majority of expert 
specialists in the world on a very complicated subject like epidemiology, 
agrees on something, people who have spent their life studying the subject, 
then I think they are much more likely to be correct then you or I are after 
we've only been studying the matter for 20 minutes or so. That's why people 
read scientific journals and believe that what they say is probably true even 
if they haven't personally carried out the experiments described in them. 
People that we trust, because they have proven to be right in the past, judge 
new research and if they think it's not valid they don't publish it in their 
journals, and if they think it is valid then they do. It's a web of trust, it's 
what the cryptographic program PGP uses to ensure that a public key really 
belongs to the person that it claims to. And history has shown the system, 
although not perfect, works pretty well most of the time, which is a hell of a 
lot better than most things work.

And by the way, I don't think Trump has spent even 20 minutes studying viral 
epidemiology or statistical theory in his entire life. 


I more or less agree with everything you say. That is exactly why I worry that 
incidents such as the Lancet retraction are damaging to the web of trust.

Telmo

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Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Alan, especially relying on mere words, over rational actions, (we're talking 
95% lawyers who are politicians here) we can see the policy is. It's a rehash 
of the Eldridge Cleaver's statement of "Burn Baby Burn!," circa 1965 Watts and 
Detroit "race: riots. I do remember LA 1992 Riot Fan and provocateur, Rep 
Maxine Waters, saying similar things last week. When Orange Man says things 
like "beautiful," I smile and nod because, just because we all were born upon a 
night, it wasn't last night. Not standing up to people (say, DiBlasio) 
arresting arsonists and looters on the spot, speaks intent, even, repeated 
across every democratic party zone (Portland, Seattle, Minneapolis, NYC, 
Louisville, LA, Denver..etc). The kind of lying about intent was also seen 
60-70 years ago during the genuine civil rights marches and integration, Favus, 
George Wallace, oh, yes and democratic party KKK Kleagle, Senator Robert Byrd 
from West Virginia. If you need me to, I can look up some dem statements 
endorsing or sympathizing with rioters, looters, arsonists, and now terrorists 
(Smells like Weatherman Faction SDS, Symbionese Liberation Army revived, also 
Black Panthers). I do wonder what Bruno will think when we start breaking 
apart? Will he have expected this, from such "crazy Ami's," or will it be a 
shock? Interesting, huh?

-Original Message-
From: Alan Grayson 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 2:53 pm
Subject: Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

Strong evidence? What is it? Which democrat politicians are encouraging 
looting? I can't recall a single one advocating that. Not one! AG

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 12:33:24 PM UTC-6, spudb...@aol.com wrote:
Eh! Derangement syndrome again. Yet, its democrat politicians encouraging the 
Vanguard of the Proletariat to burn and loot your center cities, to say, damage 
the economy, so orange man won't be elected. There is strong evidence of mail 
ballots mysteriously gone missing, so I doubt if the members of the postal 
union can be trusted to deliver ballots. What I suspect is that beyond legal 
challenges that are sure to occur, whomever appears to win. Thus, what was the 
US will descend into open civil conflict. It's not about the orange real estate 
dude, it's about the rest of us. For instance, I am not a social conservative 
at all. I hold that your Alcor bet might be a smart one, or that your 
estimation that humanity  will cause the development of Matrioshka brains, 
eventually, accurate. As of now, the Vanguard Proles are causing discouragement 
with the archetypal Hillary voter (2016) and causing a drop out for Biden, 
(Kamala) because they really don't wish BLM-Antifa governance. Since the police 
pulled out of the Millwaukee convention, I suspect that NOI's Fruit of Islam 
will do the policing there. Call it  a precursor. 


-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: everyth...@googlegroups. com
Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 9:56 am
Subject: Trump suggests delaying the election

Trump just Tweeted:
"With Universal Mail-In Voting (not Absentee Voting, which is good), 2020 will 
be the most INACCURATE & FRAUDULENT Election in history. It will be a great 
embarrassment to the USA, Delay the Election until people can properly, 
securely and safely vote???"

Trump floats delaying election despite lack of authority to do so

John K Clark-- 
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msgid/everything-list/ CAJPayv2UrSCmDARGdS09gcNu- 4JRvHQT9GPWQXD2Ex7QD_7c_g% 
40mail.gmail.com.

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Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

[Alan Grayson]

Strong evidence? What is it? Which democrat politicians are encouraging 
looting? I can't recall a single one advocating that. Not one! AG

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 12:33:24 PM UTC-6, spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Eh! Derangement syndrome again. Yet, its democrat politicians encouraging 
> the Vanguard of the Proletariat to burn and loot your center cities, to 
> say, damage the economy, so orange man won't be elected. There is strong 
> evidence of mail ballots mysteriously gone missing, so I doubt if the 
> members of the postal union can be trusted to deliver ballots. What I 
> suspect is that beyond legal challenges that are sure to occur, whomever 
> appears to win. Thus, what was the US will descend into open civil 
> conflict. It's not about the orange real estate dude, it's about the rest 
> of us. For instance, I am not a social conservative at all. I hold that 
> your Alcor bet might be a smart one, or that your estimation that humanity  
> will cause the development of Matrioshka brains, eventually, accurate. As 
> of now, the Vanguard Proles are causing discouragement with the archetypal 
> Hillary voter (2016) and causing a drop out for Biden, (Kamala) because 
> they really don't wish BLM-Antifa governance. Since the police pulled out 
> of the Millwaukee convention, I suspect that NOI's Fruit of Islam will do 
> the policing there. Call it  a precursor. 
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John Clark >
> To: everyth...@googlegroups.com 
> Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 9:56 am
> Subject: Trump suggests delaying the election
>
> *Trump just Tweeted:*
>
> "*With Universal Mail-In Voting (not Absentee Voting, which is good), 
> 2020 will be the most INACCURATE & FRAUDULENT Election in history. It will 
> be a great embarrassment to the USA, Delay the Election until people can 
> properly, securely and safely vote???*"
>
> Trump floats delaying election despite lack of authority to do so 
> 
>
> John K Clark
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to everyth...@googlegroups.com .
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv2UrSCmDARGdS09gcNu-4JRvHQT9GPWQXD2Ex7QD_7c_g%40mail.gmail.com
>  
> 
> .
>

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Re: Trump suggests delaying the election

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Eh! Derangement syndrome again. Yet, its democrat politicians encouraging the 
Vanguard of the Proletariat to burn and loot your center cities, to say, damage 
the economy, so orange man won't be elected. There is strong evidence of mail 
ballots mysteriously gone missing, so I doubt if the members of the postal 
union can be trusted to deliver ballots. What I suspect is that beyond legal 
challenges that are sure to occur, whomever appears to win. Thus, what was the 
US will descend into open civil conflict. It's not about the orange real estate 
dude, it's about the rest of us. For instance, I am not a social conservative 
at all. I hold that your Alcor bet might be a smart one, or that your 
estimation that humanity  will cause the development of Matrioshka brains, 
eventually, accurate. As of now, the Vanguard Proles are causing discouragement 
with the archetypal Hillary voter (2016) and causing a drop out for Biden, 
(Kamala) because they really don't wish BLM-Antifa governance. Since the police 
pulled out of the Millwaukee convention, I suspect that NOI's Fruit of Islam 
will do the policing there. Call it  a precursor. 


-Original Message-
From: John Clark 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 9:56 am
Subject: Trump suggests delaying the election

Trump just Tweeted:
"With Universal Mail-In Voting (not Absentee Voting, which is good), 2020 will 
be the most INACCURATE & FRAUDULENT Election in history. It will be a great 
embarrassment to the USA, Delay the Election until people can properly, 
securely and safely vote???"

Trump floats delaying election despite lack of authority to do so

John K Clark-- 
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Re: Sharpiegate

[Telmo Menezes]

Am Do, 30. Jul 2020, um 17:16, schrieb John Clark:
> 
> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:27 AM Telmo Menezes  wrote:
> 
>> __
>> > ***I disapprove of Trump and everything he stands for as much as you do. I 
>> > detest him. He is an incompetent narcissist, and his election as the 
>> > president of the USA was a nightmare come true.*
> 
> Truer words were never spoken! 
> 
>> > *I think that the current extreme political polarization of all things is 
>> > doing damage to science. A symptom of this is that the epistemological 
>> > status of things such as the efficacy of hydroxychloriquine became 
>> > impossible to determine for those not deeply involved in the field, even 
>> > if scientifically literate and able to follow the papers.*
> 
> Crackpots, and in that I would include Trump supporters and 
> thehydroxychloroquine cure COVID-19 people, don't just dispute well 
> established theories, they dispute the raw data itself. I've had otherwise 
> intelligent people tell me that every epidemiologist in the world is wrong, 
> and the entire scientific community is wrong, and even insist every bit of 
> data we have about COVID-19 is wrong. Why would they do that? Because if the 
> data was right they would have to radically change their worldview and face 
> the fact that Donald Trump is not doing a good job. Changing one's worldview 
> is quite painful for some people.
> 
> Nobody can be knowledgeable about everything, so if the vast majority of 
> expert specialists in the world on a very complicated subject like 
> epidemiology, agrees on something, people who have spent their life studying 
> the subject, then I think they are much more likely to be correct then you or 
> I are after we've only been studying the matter for 20 minutes or so. That's 
> why people read scientific journals and believe that what they say is 
> probably true even if they haven't personally carried out the experiments 
> described in them. People that we trust, because they have proven to be right 
> in the past, judge new research and if they think it's not valid they don't 
> publish it in their journals, and if they think it is valid then they do. 
> It's a web of trust, it's what the cryptographic program PGP uses to ensure 
> that a public key really belongs to the person that it claims to. And history 
> has shown the system, although not perfect, works pretty well most of the 
> time, which is a hell of a lot better than most things work.
> 
> And by the way, I don't think Trump has spent even 20 minutes studying viral 
> epidemiology or statistical theory in his entire life. 

I more or less agree with everything you say. That is exactly why I worry that 
incidents such as the Lancet retraction are damaging to the web of trust.

Telmo

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Re: Sharpiegate

[spudboy100 via Everything List]

Actually it is a summary. The conclusion is that Hydro can be efficacious is 
50-70% of the cases. This is now a time AAAS Science's opinion aside (pharma 
funded?) when most experts regarding covid have been proven wrong, and perhaps 
deliberately on their part. Politicized science is not science at all. Whether 
it's Jewish Physics, or Lysenko's biology, or even threats of climate collapse. 
To quote Galileo, It Moves, Still. Its either true or not? Who is ever 
president notwithstanding.


-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Thu, Jul 30, 2020 7:57 am
Subject: Re: Sharpiegate

On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 7:04:07 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

Again, regarding, Hydroxychloroquine, please refute:  

https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study
https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7330574/



I am not near enough of a bio-medical scientist to comment on these papers and 
what might be wrong with these. The last is just the NIH listing of papers and 
their abstracts or briefs. This is not an endorsement of the results. I am just 
aware results or claims of such results showing an efficacy for 
hydroxychloriquine are a minority report. The at large verdict is opposite.
LC 
-Original Message-
From: Lawrence Crowell 
To: Everything List 
Sent: Wed, Jul 29, 2020 7:55 pm
Subject: Re: Sharpiegate

On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 7:01:12 AM UTC-5 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:

The following is from the July 10 issue of the journal Science and shows just 
how far Donald Trump is willing to corrupt science just so he doesn't have to 
admit he was wrong: 
NOAA watchdog chides agency for how it handled Hurricane Dorian’s ‘Sharpiegate’

It is a case of how people become sycophants for t'Rump. 

And meanwhile just yesterday Trump was back on national television pushing a 
quack cure for COVID-19 (hydroxychloroquine) on millions of Americans and using 
as his "very impressive evidence" testimony of a doctor who believes facemasks 
are unnecessary, and many illnesses are caused by people having sex in their 
dreams with demons and witches, and the COVID-19 vaccines in development are 
made of DNA from space alien's demon sperm to make people less religious.  

It is my understanding that double-blind tests of hydroxycholoroqune have shown 
no efficacy for this and can't be judged an effective treatment of Covid-19. 
This is in contrast to the other links sent in this thread. Don-the-Con t'Rump 
bought shares of stock from a company in India back when he was met with PM 
Modi. Hey, wait! He violated the emoluments clause, but then again who pays 
attention to that old rag called the Constitution these days?
The Lizard men or Saurians from outer space! This has been around for a while. 
I remember running into this about 20 years ago. It is a crazy idea spun by a 
British media sports reporter. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilian_conspiracy_theory  

LC 


The good doctor also believes the US government is not run by human beings but 
by creatures called "reptilians"... come to think of it ... she may not be 
entirely wrong on that last point.

John K Clark
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Re: Time travel in quantum computing

[Lawrence Crowell]

This looks interesting. There are relative time machines in QM, where one 
system may by virtue of its energy move faster or slower in time.

For a two-state system the string of binary outputs has Kolmogorov 
complexity 2^N. However, the quantum complexity is exp(2^N). for N = 4 the 
K-complexity is 15, but the quantum complexity is 8886110.52. This pertains 
to the possible phase structure that can exist. As a result much of the 
“butterfly effect” in QM or quantum chaos is in the phasor structure. 

With a black hole Alice can transform a set of states with an apparatus, so 
her EPR pair is transformed into a state to be transmitted. She sends these 
quantum states into her black hole and transmits this information to Bob 
who is facing a black hole entangled with Alice’s.  Bob then performs the 
operations according to Alice’s transmission and the states Alice sent in 
will appear in the quantum radiation of the BH. This is a form of 
teleportation via black hole. There is no reason why Alice might decide to 
transmit this information to Bob and wait a long time and send her EPR 
pairs into the BH long after Bob has received these instructions. Bob then 
quickly performs these operations and reconstructs Alice’s transmitted 
states long before, on his Hubble frame, before Alice transmitted them. 
Teleportation back in time is in principle possible with BHs.

The difference between the transmitted and received states are with the 
quantum phase, where the quantum complexity of Alice’s states are not 
constructible by Bob. The black hole as an Einstein-Rosen bridge is not 
traversable. A traversable black hole, which violates the Hawking-Penrose 
energy conditions, would allow for the duplication of a state. A 
traversable wormhole with one opening boosted to a near light speed frame 
and then back will have its clocks behind the first opening. Then 
transmitting a quantum state into the wormhole, means at an earlier time 
that state appears in the second opening so the experimenter for a time has 
a copy of the state. This is a process that is not unitary. This sort of 
problem does not happen with entangled black holes or ER bridges.

LC

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 6:02:43 AM UTC-5 cloud...@gmail.com wrote:

>
>
> https://newatlas.com/physics/quantum-time-travel-simulator-butterfly-effect/
>
>
> Recovery of Damaged Information and the Out-of-Time-Ordered Correlators
>
>
> https://arxiv.org/abs/2003.07267
>
> @philipthrift 
>

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Re: Sharpiegate

[John Clark]

On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 11:27 AM Telmo Menezes 
wrote:

>
> *I disapprove of Trump and everything he stands for as much as you do. I
> detest him. He is an incompetent narcissist, and his election as the
> president of the USA was a nightmare come true.*
>

Truer words were never spoken!

> *I think that the current extreme political polarization of all things is
> doing damage to science. A symptom of this is that the epistemological
> status of things such as the efficacy of hydroxychloriquine became
> impossible to determine for those not deeply involved in the field, even if
> scientifically literate and able to follow the papers.*
>

Crackpots, and in that I would include Trump supporters and the
hydroxychloroquine cure COVID-19 people, don't just dispute well
established theories, they dispute the raw data itself. I've had otherwise
intelligent people tell me that every epidemiologist in the world is wrong,
and the entire scientific community is wrong, and even insist every bit of
data we have about COVID-19 is wrong. Why would they do that? Because if
the data was right they would have to radically change their worldview and
face the fact that Donald Trump is not doing a good job. Changing one's
worldview is quite painful for some people.

Nobody can be knowledgeable about everything, so if the vast majority of expert
specialists in the world on a very complicated subject like epidemiology,
agrees on something, people who have spent their life studying the subject,
then I think they are much more likely to be correct then you or I are
after we've only been studying the matter for 20 minutes or so. That's why
people read scientific journals and believe that what they say is probably
true even if they haven't personally carried out the experiments described
in them. People that we trust, because they have proven to be right in the
past, judge new research and if they think it's not valid they don't
publish it in their journals, and if they think it is valid then they do.
It's a web of trust, it's what the cryptographic program PGP uses to ensure
that a public key really belongs to the person that it claims to. And
history has shown the system, although not perfect, works pretty well most
of the time, which is a hell of a lot better than most things work.

And by the way, I don't think Trump has spent even 20 minutes studying
viral epidemiology or statistical theory in his entire life.

John K Clark

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Re: Sharpiegate

[Telmo Menezes]

I disapprove of Trump and everything he stands for as much as you do. I detest 
him. He is an incompetent narcissist, and his election as the president of the 
USA was a nightmare come true.

With that out of the way: I think that the current extreme political 
polarization of all things is doing damage to science. A symptom of this is 
that the epistemological status of things such as the efficacy of 
hydroxychloriquine became impossible to determine for those not deeply involved 
in the field, even if scientifically literate and able to follow the papers.

In the beginning of June, The Lancet had to face the retraction of a paper that 
had previously concluded that patients taking the drug had worse outcomes than 
the baseline:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31324-6/fulltext

I have dealt with scientific journals on matters that require dataset 
availability (on much less serious matters), and they would not allow 
publication before being assured of this basic requirement. I don't know how 
The Lancet operates in this regard, but it is hard to avoid the suspicion that 
this paper was rushed to acceptance because everyone liked the conclusion. I 
think that the rational position for an outsider is now to doubt any results 
related to this topic, positive or negative. I worry that this "large veridict" 
may be tainted. My intuition is still that hydroxychloriquine doesn't work, and 
I have little doubt that Trump endorses it for all the wrong reasons, but a lot 
of damage was done by the above incident.

Telmo

Am Do, 30. Jul 2020, um 11:57, schrieb Lawrence Crowell:
> On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 7:04:07 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:
>> Again, regarding, Hydroxychloroquine, please refute:  
>> 
>> https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study 
>> 
>> https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext
>> 
>> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7330574/
>> 
>> 
> 
> I am not near enough of a bio-medical scientist to comment on these papers 
> and what might be wrong with these. The last is just the NIH listing of 
> papers and their abstracts or briefs. This is not an endorsement of the 
> results. I am just aware results or claims of such results showing an 
> efficacy for hydroxychloriquine are a minority report. The at large verdict 
> is opposite.
> 
> LC
>  
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Lawrence Crowell 
>> To: Everything List 
>> Sent: Wed, Jul 29, 2020 7:55 pm
>> Subject: Re: Sharpiegate
>> 
>> On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 7:01:12 AM UTC-5 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> The following is from the July 10 issue of the journal Science and shows 
>>> just how far Donald Trump is willing to corrupt science just so he doesn't 
>>> have to admit he was wrong: 
>>> 
>>> NOAA watchdog chides agency for how it handled Hurricane Dorian’s 
>>> ‘Sharpiegate’ 
>>> 
>> 
>> It is a case of how people become sycophants for t'Rump.
>>  
>>> 
>>> And meanwhile just yesterday Trump was back on national television pushing 
>>> a quack cure for COVID-19 (hydroxychloroquine) on millions of Americans and 
>>> using as his "very impressive evidence" testimony of a doctor who believes 
>>> facemasks are unnecessary, and many illnesses are caused by people having 
>>> sex in their dreams with demons and witches, and the COVID-19 vaccines in 
>>> development are made of DNA from space alien's demon sperm to make people 
>>> less religious.  
>> 
>> It is my understanding that double-blind tests of hydroxycholoroqune have 
>> shown no efficacy for this and can't be judged an effective treatment of 
>> Covid-19. This is in contrast to the other links sent in this thread. 
>> Don-the-Con t'Rump bought shares of stock from a company in India back when 
>> he was met with PM Modi. Hey, wait! He violated the emoluments clause, but 
>> then again who pays attention to that old rag called the Constitution these 
>> days?
>> 
>> The Lizard men or Saurians from outer space! This has been around for a 
>> while. I remember running into this about 20 years ago. It is a crazy idea 
>> spun by a British media sports reporter. 
>> 
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilian_conspiracy_theory  
>> 
>> LC
>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The good doctor also believes the US government is not run by human beings 
>>> but by creatures called "reptilians"... come to think of it ... she may not 
>>> be entirely wrong on that last point.
>>> 
>>> John K Clark
>>> 
>> 
>> --
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>> "Everything List" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> 
>> 

Re: A video tour of the ALCOR facility

[John Clark]

On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 10:22 AM Lawrence Crowell <
goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote:

> the real issue with human survival is over the next century or so.
>

I agree.


> > Homo sapiens will not exist into geological time spans of the future.
>

True, Human beings will not exist over a geological time scale, but the
AI's they create probably will. I would be surprised if anything you or I
would consider human will exists a century from now, perhaps not even in 50
years, and if I am ever lucky enough to be revived from a liquid nitrogen
sleep I don't expect to come back as a biological being that lives in a
non-virtual world as I (presumably) do now.

> I did not comment on the von Neumann probes. The idea is sort of
> interesting and it is a cyber-space-based idea analogous to biology.
>

Exactly, and if random mutation and natural selection can do something then
intelligent designers, aka Human engineers, can do it too and do it better
because Evolution is a stupid way to get things done, it's just that before
Evolution finally managed to make a brain, after 3 billion years of
stumbling around, Evolution was the only way complex objects could get made.

A jet engine works better than a prop engine in an airplane. I give you a
prop engine and tell you to turn it into a jet, but you must do it while
the engine is running, you must do it in one million small steps, and you
must do it so every single one of those small steps immediately improves
the operation of the engine. Eventually you would get an improved engine of
some sort, but it wouldn't look anything like a jet. If the tire on your
car is getting worn you can take it off and put a new one on, but
evolution could
never do something like that, because when you take the old tire off you
have temporarily made things worse, now you have no tire at all. With
evolution EVERY step (generation), no matter how many, MUST be an immediate
improvement over the previous one.


> > So far self-replicating algorithms, search engines and viruses as
> examples, have only worked in a virtual sense.  I do not know how realistic
> this is with micro-probes in the solar system. Maybe they would drift
> around dormant for along time before landing, presumably at low velocity,
> into an asteroid.
>

Such a probe would be about the size of a large bacteria so you could make
trillions of them, or rather they would make trillions of copies of
themselves.

> If people shift their hopes and fears associated with religion to
> science, then we can expect policies and economics to shift accordingly.
>

That would be wonderful if it happened, nobody would give the keys to a
Trident nuclear submarine to a creature like Donald Trump if it did, but
religious evangelicals saw no problem in doing exactly that in 2016.

> I am not sure an aim of science is either to disprove religion,
>

Science will never be able to prove that religion is untrue, but it hasa
lready proven that religion is silly.

John K Clark

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Re: A video tour of the ALCOR facility

[Lawrence Crowell]

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 7:13:37 AM UTC-5 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 6:56 PM Lawrence Crowell  
> wrote:
>
>> >> Have you found an error in John Von Neumann's work that proves his 
>>> probe won't work?
>>>
>>
>> > The main point I am making is that lots of future predictions do not 
>> happen. 
>>
>
> Not happened YET, but there is plenty of time. Just 200 years ago nobody 
> knew what electricity was and a wood fired steam engine was high tech, and 
> 10,000 years ago a sharp flint rock was high-tech, and it will be a billion 
> years or so before the sun gets too hot for life to exist on Earth. 
> Liquid nitrogen gives you time.
>

I find it amusing that people invoke the issue of the sun heating up Earth. 
That will not start to be a potential issue for another 500 million years. 
A billion years from now things might be tough. However, the real issue 
with human survival is over the next century or so. Homo sapiens will not 
exist into geological time spans of the future. As a rule long lasting 
species are small and are a genetic "trunk" for speciation. We are not a 
trunk, but a far off branch --- not even that but more like a  twig. 
 

>
>  
>
>> > The big wheel in space, Luna city and piloted missions to Mars and 
>> Jupiter  have simply not happened.
>>
>
> True they have not happened, but not because they violate some law of 
> physics or even because current technology is not advanced enough to do so; 
> they have not been built because nobody could find any Scientific, 
> economic, or military reason to do so, and it's entirely possible nobody 
> ever will. However I'm quite confident nobody will ever run out of reasons 
> to stop pursuing immortality or in making sure your AI is smarter than the 
> other guy's AI.
>

The return on investment with that sort of manned space flight has not been 
demonstrated. To do it right the initial investment has to be large. Elon 
Musk's idea of a martian spaceship is a sort of hail Mary pass. 
 

>
> > One thing that has happened is the idea science as the basis for 
>> explanation for the universe has in the minds of some people also come to 
>> replace religion.
>>
>
> Yes certainly, but you almost make that sound like a bad thing. Religion 
> sucks, Science doesn't because religion (and magic) doesn't work, but 
> Science does. 
>
> > In the case of N2 freezing this involves immortality, or at least 
>> unbounded lifespan that avoids mortality.
>>
>
> Yes.
>
> John K Clark
>

I did not comment on the von Neumann probes. The idea is sort of 
interesting and it is a cyber-space-based idea analogous to biology. So far 
self-replicating algorithms, search engines and viruses as examples, have 
only worked in a virtual sense.  I do not know how realistic this is with 
micro-probes in the solar system. Maybe they would drift around dormant for 
along time before landing, presumably at low velocity, into an asteroid.

Using science to replace religion is a Faustian bargain. I think it has 
some clouding if not corrupting influence on science. If people shift their 
hopes and fears associated with religion to science, then we can expect 
policies and economics to shift accordingly. I am not sure an aim of 
science is either to disprove religion, which in fact it can't do, or to 
offer up the promises attributed to religion.

LC

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Trump suggests delaying the election

[John Clark]

*Trump just Tweeted:*

"*With Universal Mail-In Voting (not Absentee Voting, which is good), 2020
will be the most INACCURATE & FRAUDULENT Election in history. It will be a
great embarrassment to the USA, Delay the Election until people can
properly, securely and safely vote???*"

Trump floats delaying election despite lack of authority to do so


John K Clark

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Re: A video tour of the ALCOR facility

[John Clark]

On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 6:56 PM Lawrence Crowell <
goldenfieldquaterni...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Have you found an error in John Von Neumann's work that proves his probe
>> won't work?
>>
>
> > The main point I am making is that lots of future predictions do not
> happen.
>

Not happened YET, but there is plenty of time. Just 200 years ago nobody
knew what electricity was and a wood fired steam engine was high tech, and
10,000 years ago a sharp flint rock was high-tech, and it will be a billion
years or so before the sun gets too hot for life to exist on Earth. Liquid
nitrogen gives you time.


> > The big wheel in space, Luna city and piloted missions to Mars and
> Jupiter  have simply not happened.
>

True they have not happened, but not because they violate some law of
physics or even because current technology is not advanced enough to do so;
they have not been built because nobody could find any Scientific,
economic, or military reason to do so, and it's entirely possible nobody
ever will. However I'm quite confident nobody will ever run out of reasons
to stop pursuing immortality or in making sure your AI is smarter than the
other guy's AI.

> One thing that has happened is the idea science as the basis for
> explanation for the universe has in the minds of some people also come to
> replace religion.
>

Yes certainly, but you almost make that sound like a bad thing. Religion
sucks, Science doesn't because religion (and magic) doesn't work, but
Science does.

> In the case of N2 freezing this involves immortality, or at least
> unbounded lifespan that avoids mortality.
>

Yes.

John K Clark

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Re: Sharpiegate

[Lawrence Crowell]

On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 7:04:07 PM UTC-5 spudb...@aol.com wrote:

> Again, regarding, Hydroxychloroquine, please refute:  
>
> https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study 
>
> https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(20)30534-8/fulltext
>
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7330574/
>
>
>
I am not near enough of a bio-medical scientist to comment on these papers 
and what might be wrong with these. The last is just the NIH listing of 
papers and their abstracts or briefs. This is not an endorsement of the 
results. I am just aware results or claims of such results showing an 
efficacy for hydroxychloriquine are a minority report. The at large verdict 
is opposite.

LC
 

> -Original Message-
> From: Lawrence Crowell 
> To: Everything List 
> Sent: Wed, Jul 29, 2020 7:55 pm
> Subject: Re: Sharpiegate
>
> On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 7:01:12 AM UTC-5 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> The following is from the July 10 issue of the journal Science and shows 
> just how far Donald Trump is willing to corrupt science just so he doesn't 
> have to admit he was wrong: 
>
> NOAA watchdog chides agency for how it handled Hurricane Dorian’s 
> ‘Sharpiegate’ 
> 
>
>
> It is a case of how people become sycophants for t'Rump.
>  
>
>
> And meanwhile just yesterday Trump was back on national television pushing 
> a quack cure for COVID-19 (hydroxychloroquine) on millions of Americans and 
> using as his "very impressive evidence" testimony of a doctor who believes 
> facemasks are unnecessary, and many illnesses are caused by people having 
> sex in their dreams with demons and witches, and the COVID-19 vaccines in 
> development are made of DNA from space alien's demon sperm to make people 
> less religious.  
>
>
> It is my understanding that double-blind tests of hydroxycholoroqune have 
> shown no efficacy for this and can't be judged an effective treatment of 
> Covid-19. This is in contrast to the other links sent in this thread. 
> Don-the-Con t'Rump bought shares of stock from a company in India back when 
> he was met with PM Modi. Hey, wait! He violated the emoluments clause, but 
> then again who pays attention to that old rag called the Constitution these 
> days?
>
> The Lizard men or Saurians from outer space! This has been around for a 
> while. I remember running into this about 20 years ago. It is a crazy idea 
> spun by a British media sports reporter. 
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reptilian_conspiracy_theory  
>
> LC
>  
>
>
>
> The good doctor also believes the US government is not run by human beings 
> but by creatures called "reptilians"... come to think of it ... she may not 
> be entirely wrong on that last point.
>
> John K Clark
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/2567cd39-1c22-4cc8-8a5f-5a0173c29471n%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
>  
> .
>

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Time travel in quantum computing

[Philip Thrift]

https://newatlas.com/physics/quantum-time-travel-simulator-butterfly-effect/


Recovery of Damaged Information and the Out-of-Time-Ordered Correlators


https://arxiv.org/abs/2003.07267



@philipthrift 

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