Re: [expert] You people just don't get it
On Sun, 16 Apr 2000, you wrote: Very good advice about X and servers. When I set up a Linux Server I never activate X I find the combination of openssh and file runner adequate for almost everything I need to do to maintain a server. "File Runner"??? Never heard of that. Is it some sort of a secure ftp type util Guess I'm going to have to go look that up at FreshMeat. :-) Thanks... John
Re: [expert] You people just don't get it
I have been using File Runner for over three years now and one of these days I might, MIGHT find a better file manager. It does so many things so well that it is the first program I install on a new installation. On Sun, 16 Apr 2000, you wrote: On Sun, 16 Apr 2000, you wrote: looking for a secure ftp? the ssh package from f-secure has sftp (secure ftp) which uses from what I can gather ssh Nahh...just had never heard of "File Runner" before. :-) I just wanted to look it up. :-) John -- Kenneth Archer + San Antonio, Texas [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ #24980801 Powered by Linux ++ Mailed by Kmail
Re: [expert] You people just don't get it
I try to use boath distros depending upon what my topic is. some times i've emailed the wrong distro dave On Wed, 12 Apr 2000, you wrote: On Wed, 12 Apr 2000, you wrote: What I meant is that novice users use the distro too, and they are not so smart in figuring out, what is not working correctly...And that is... MY question is, what the heck would a NOVICE be doing setting up a server If you're a NOVICE, you should call in an expert to help you set it up, or to set it up FOR You and show you which switches to pull and which buttons to push for what effect. John -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= LINUX - Why? Cause I dont do windows -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Re: [expert] You people just don't get it
Alen Salamun wrote: Mike Corbeil wrote: Hello. My name's Mike, aka Frank, as you may discover. Hi Mike! :) You written us a really good "whole look" on the distribution. And yes, the only thing I was upset was, that even when "bugs" are reported some people have xxx excuses not to even investigate them... That may only be because Mandrake is not a HUGE company and therefore doesn't have enough staff to get to everything immediately. This is my hunch and because this is the pov I take, I would simply look for the desired utility and download it. Because Mandrake is highly compatible with Red Hat, if Mandrake doesn't have the utility for download, then I'ld check Red Hat's download directories and give that a try. People need to realize that Linux distributors aren't huge like MS and even that company markets buggy OSs; therefore, a little good will or patience on the part of everyone wouldn't be misplaced or out of place, imo. When you get the utility and it doesn't work, because of some error within the code of the utility, then that's a bug. There's definitely a distinct difference between what constitutes a bug, and merely a missing utility. And a "BUG" in a distribution... Well, if you want to conceptualize bug to that level, then I guess it is a free country. I understand what you mean. There is no such thing as "MISSING UTILITY REPORT FORM" for mandrake OR? :) There is only "BUG REPORT FORM" :)) Good point and this is something Mandrake should add. I understand all of the following, I am using LiNUX for more than 5 years now, and I have contributen many many things to the community. I even offered my help to Mandrake and am translating the distribution into Slovenian language. But there is this thing, that tells me, that if someone will say: "Hey this is not translated right", I will work on the problem, or atleast say "Thank you" I have it it my TODO list... I kind of hunch that Mandrake would place your point about a missing utility on a todo list, too. Based on the list of outstanding bugs, or reported bugs, Mandrake does have todo lists. mike
Re: [expert] You people just don't get it
Alen Salamun wrote: Burkhard Zombronner wrote: Could you please stop shouting on us !!! Hi! Ich bin nicht "schouting" an euch...heheh (I am not shouting on you all) Only on people, that have a kind of funny approach like "...don't use it, don't care...". I have no intetions do shout on anyone, but this really god me down in my LiNUX heart...:)) Really... Yes, people could avoid being overly sensitive, and as far as I'm concerned, your devotion or astuteness is of a worthy sort. However, I also need to admit that your intentions weren't initially understood. Now that they are, you're correct and I have no problems with your initial comments anylonger. mike
Re: [expert] You people just don't get it
"Brian T. Schellenberger" wrote: I don't mind "stupid questions" from people who are trying to get things to work but these "holier than thou" "experts only" "we don't want the damned distribution fixed because then the unwashed masses might start using Mandrake" attitudes really piss me off. Hi! Sorry if I made so much fire here, but the point is that even if I reported some (won't say bugs) "strange behaviour" of many things there was no replay at all... And this was the first thing that got into my head, people here should know about it... As I see i was wrong... Alen: I suggest that you post bugs to the bug-reporting list, and/or to the cooker list. As I said: I did it 2x and no replay at all...And I was horrified, that there were many old bugs, but still no new packages... Bye, Alen -- *---* *E-Mail: Alen Salamun [EMAIL PROTECTED]* * LiNUX - The choice of GNU Generation! * *---*
Re: [expert] You people just don't get it
Sheldon Lee Wen wrote: Or at least RTFM sufficiently. I was a newbie once and got to where I am mostly by reading all avaliable documentation first. (usually :) ) Hi! I think this is one of two things that seperates a newbie to a "expert". The other are experiences :) Bye, Alen -- *---* *E-Mail: Alen Salamun [EMAIL PROTECTED]* * LiNUX - The choice of GNU Generation! * *---*
Re: [expert] You people just don't get it
I guess what really surprises me is that so many beginners bypass the beginner list and head straight for the expert list thinking they will get better answers to questions. On Tue, 11 Apr 2000, you wrote: Hi! I am really SUPRISED to see such replies like: ...I don't use it, I don't care... This should be fixed by configuration alone... mrproper should be run... It was left out and you want it, then go get it. Hey THERE RE NOVICE USERS TOO! Not all are experienced in all this stuff and Mandrake should be USER FRIENDLY TOO, expecially for beginners! Having used at least 6 different distributions in the last two years, I'd say Mandrake was the most user friendly. This list has some of the best resources concerning thi distribution and many of those resources are from Mandrakesoft. And I AM TOTALLY TOTALLY CONSEARNED BY THE FIRST ONE! I DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU DON'T USE IT, OTHERS ARE! And bugs like missing utility, that is not missing in any other distribution (even not in .tgz) are NASTY ONES! A mistake, like I said, go get it and install it. This is the list for experts, You can do it. This is not a serious approach to develop a really good distribution...This SUX! Sorry I can't say anything else on such reply... If you are unhappy, get another distribution. Less than $2 and you are on your way. Just be glad that you aren't using MS and decided it didn't have something you wanted. I only hope the people by Mandrake are not thinking in such a way... bye, Alen I think they are good people doing a great job. If they were perfect then they'd be me... LOL If you consider yourself a beginner, subscribe to the newbie list and unsubscribe from the expert list. IMO Ron -- Ron Marriage E-Mailmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage http://www.seidata.com/~marriage
Re: [expert] You people just don't get it
Burkhard Zombronner wrote: Could you please stop shouting on us !!! Hi! Ich bin nicht "schouting" an euch...heheh (I am not shouting on you all) Only on people, that have a kind of funny approach like "...don't use it, don't care...". I have no intetions do shout on anyone, but this really god me down in my LiNUX heart...:)) Really... Bye, Alen -- *---* *E-Mail: Alen Salamun [EMAIL PROTECTED]* * LiNUX - The choice of GNU Generation! * *---*
Re: [expert] You people just don't get it
Mike Corbeil wrote: Hello. My name's Mike, aka Frank, as you may discover. Hi Mike! :) You written us a really good "whole look" on the distribution. And yes, the only thing I was upset was, that even when "bugs" are reported some people have xxx excuses not to even investigate them... When you get the utility and it doesn't work, because of some error within the code of the utility, then that's a bug. There's definitely a distinct difference between what constitutes a bug, and merely a missing utility. And a "BUG" in a distribution...There is no such thing as "MISSING UTILITY REPORT FORM" for mandrake OR? :) There is only "BUG REPORT FORM" :)) I understand all of the following, I am using LiNUX for more than 5 years now, and I have contributen many many things to the community. I even offered my help to Mandrake and am translating the distribution into Slovenian language. But there is this thing, that tells me, that if someone will say: "Hey this is not translated right", I will work on the problem, or atleast say "Thank you" I have it it my TODO list... Bye, Alen -- *---* *E-Mail: Alen Salamun [EMAIL PROTECTED]* * LiNUX - The choice of GNU Generation! * *---*
Re: [expert] You people just don't get it
Jean-Louis Debert wrote: Seems that YOU don't get it: this list is named EXPERT and is supposed to be used by persons reasonably fluent with linux use config. For beginners there is ANOTHER list, in fact there are several as there are language-specific versions. So, my point is that beginners DON'T BELONG HERE ... or at least they should avoid to advertise themselves with LOUD messages. Hi! I didn't say I am a novice user, I use LiNUX for about 5 years and even contributed to some kernel code so don't you novice me...:)) What I meant is that novice users use the distro too, and they are not so smart in figuring out, what is not working correctly...And that is... Bye, Alen -- *---* *E-Mail: Alen Salamun [EMAIL PROTECTED]* * LiNUX - The choice of GNU Generation! * *---*
Re: [expert] You people just don't get it
Ron Marriage wrote: I guess what really surprises me is that so many beginners bypass the beginner list and head straight for the expert list thinking they will get better answers to questions. Hi! As I said, I said that beginners have problems with even a smallest misconfiguration and that things should be taken care of because of them... I an not a novice user like I said a mail before bye, Alen -- *---* *E-Mail: Alen Salamun [EMAIL PROTECTED]* * LiNUX - The choice of GNU Generation! * *---*
RE: [expert] You people just don't get it
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ron Marriage Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2000 10:50 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [expert] You people just don't get it I guess what really surprises me is that so many beginners bypass the beginner list and head straight for the expert list thinking they will get better answers to questions. I'm a linux beginner and I'm on this list because after reading the same question come through day in and day out on the newbie list got real tiresome. Not to mention that all the other questions were too simple, too easy, too 'newbie'... so I jumped over to this list. DUring that time I have learned a whole lot. Far more than had I stayed on the 'newbie' list...
Re: [expert] You people just don't get it
On Wed, 12 Apr 2000, you wrote: What I meant is that novice users use the distro too, and they are not so smart in figuring out, what is not working correctly...And that is... MY question is, what the heck would a NOVICE be doing setting up a server If you're a NOVICE, you should call in an expert to help you set it up, or to set it up FOR You and show you which switches to pull and which buttons to push for what effect. John
Re: [expert] You people just don't get it
Dude, get a grip. Everyone is a novice at some point in time. If you would get off your high horse for a second and realize, maybe these 'novices' are coming to the expert board for expert advice. Learn to live with it. Don't be a whiny topic nazi. Otherwise this board may just not be for you. -Jason - Original Message - From: "John Aldrich" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 9:41 AM Subject: Re: [expert] You people just don't get it On Wed, 12 Apr 2000, you wrote: What I meant is that novice users use the distro too, and they are not so smart in figuring out, what is not working correctly...And that is... MY question is, what the heck would a NOVICE be doing setting up a server If you're a NOVICE, you should call in an expert to help you set it up, or to set it up FOR You and show you which switches to pull and which buttons to push for what effect. John
Re: [expert] You people just don't get it
On Wed, 12 Apr 2000, you wrote: Dude, get a grip. Everyone is a novice at some point in time. If you would get off your high horse for a second and realize, maybe these 'novices' are coming to the expert board for expert advice. Learn to live with it. Don't be a whiny topic nazi. Otherwise this board may just not be for you. I'm not whining, I'm just wondering why a "NOVICE" (unlike the original querant) would undertake such a difficult task of setting up a server? Further, MOST servers that *I* have seen (and I"ve seen more than a few in my job here at the ISP where I work) don't try to run X. John
Re: [expert] You people just don't get it
No, YOU don't get it. He's trying to make Mandrake into a great distrbution by getting them to fix up what's wrong, and you're telling him that he shouldn't say that. That's just too stupid for words. In fact, he stated CLEARLY that IT ALREADY WORKS FOR HIM. He'd like it to WORK FOR MORE PEOPLE. Doesn't that seem like a GOOD IDEA? Ye Gods, I'm losing it here. Like civilme did a few weeks ago I think I'd better drop off this list before I get too upset and turn into the firebrand I've been other places and in other contexts and leave more of you with the impressin that I'm a sweet lovable guy you've (mostly) seen on this list. I don't mind "stupid questions" from people who are trying to get things to work but these "holier than thou" "experts only" "we don't want the damned distribution fixed because then the unwashed masses might start using Mandrake" attitudes really piss me off. I've other better things to do that read that. I really liked this list when I got here; lots of helpful people trying to help. Can we get back to that and not get so bent out of shape when somebody suggests that Mandrake might just possibly have some room for improvement? OTOH, a loving reminder that this isn't a bug-reporting list could be in order. On the first hand, bugs are NOT handled well by the Mandrake "process" and that's for sure. Alen: I suggest that you post bugs to the bug-reporting list, and/or to the cooker list. This is really a user-support group rather than an official Mandrake list. Others: we all (myself included) need to get a grip. I'm gonna at least delete all mail with this topic, and Jean-Louis Debert wrote: Alen Salamun wrote: Hey THERE RE NOVICE USERS TOO! Not all are experienced in all this stuff and Mandrake should be USER FRIENDLY TOO, expecially for beginners! Seems that YOU don't get it: this list is named EXPERT and is supposed to be used by persons reasonably fluent with linux use config. For beginners there is ANOTHER list, in fact there are several as there are language-specific versions. So, my point is that beginners DON'T BELONG HERE ... or at least they should avoid to advertise themselves with LOUD messages. -- Jean-Louis Debert[EMAIL PROTECTED] 74 Annemasse France old Linux fan -- "Brian, the man from babble-on" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brian T. Schellenberger http://www.babbleon.org Support http://www.eff.org. Support decss defendents. Support http://www.programming-freedom.org. Boycott amazon.com.
Re: [expert] You people just don't get it
But these issues don't belong on the newbie list, either; he already has solved his problem. These belong on the bug-reporting list or, since if I follow him he already reported at least some of them there without any response, on the 'cooker' list. Ron Marriage wrote: I guess what really surprises me is that so many beginners bypass the beginner list and head straight for the expert list thinking they will get better answers to questions. On Tue, 11 Apr 2000, you wrote: Hi! I am really SUPRISED to see such replies like: ...I don't use it, I don't care... This should be fixed by configuration alone... mrproper should be run... It was left out and you want it, then go get it. Hey THERE RE NOVICE USERS TOO! Not all are experienced in all this stuff and Mandrake should be USER FRIENDLY TOO, expecially for beginners! Having used at least 6 different distributions in the last two years, I'd say Mandrake was the most user friendly. This list has some of the best resources concerning thi distribution and many of those resources are from Mandrakesoft. And I AM TOTALLY TOTALLY CONSEARNED BY THE FIRST ONE! I DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU DON'T USE IT, OTHERS ARE! And bugs like missing utility, that is not missing in any other distribution (even not in .tgz) are NASTY ONES! A mistake, like I said, go get it and install it. This is the list for experts, You can do it. This is not a serious approach to develop a really good distribution...This SUX! Sorry I can't say anything else on such reply... If you are unhappy, get another distribution. Less than $2 and you are on your way. Just be glad that you aren't using MS and decided it didn't have something you wanted. I only hope the people by Mandrake are not thinking in such a way... bye, Alen I think they are good people doing a great job. If they were perfect then they'd be me... LOL If you consider yourself a beginner, subscribe to the newbie list and unsubscribe from the expert list. IMO Ron -- Ron Marriage E-Mailmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Homepage http://www.seidata.com/~marriage -- "Brian, the man from babble-on" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brian T. Schellenberger http://www.babbleon.org Support http://www.eff.org. Support decss defendents. Support http://www.programming-freedom.org. Boycott amazon.com.
Re: [expert] You people just don't get it
Oh, come on. He was decrying a completely ridiculous attitude that suggested that if it was possible to patch up the Mandrake distribution so that it worked, then the user ought to be happy. This is simply silly. And he never suggested ditching Mandrke for M$; he did implicitly suggest ditching Mandrake for another distribution, but that's entirely different. The idea that Mandrake sells a "do it yourself" kit, as it were, and that it's ok for permissions and numerous other "little details" to be wrong is ok, I guess, if they sell it as the "Heathkit" of the distribution business, but they don't--they promote it as a "newbie", easy-to-use distribution. Some of this attitude would be ok for Slackware, I guess, which promotes itself more as a kit for "real" programmers, but not if Mandrake is going to promote itself as it does. -- "Brian, the man from babble-on" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brian T. Schellenberger http://www.babbleon.org Support http://www.eff.org. Support decss defendents. Support http://www.programming-freedom.org. Boycott amazon.com.
Re: [expert] You people just don't get it
"Brian T. Schellenberger" wrote: No, YOU don't get it. He's trying to make Mandrake into a great distrbution by getting them to fix up what's wrong, and you're telling him that he shouldn't say that. That's just too stupid for words. Brian: He's screaming and hollering about "bugs" because they're not showing up on Mandrake's bug database and going around bad-mouthing it for problems that are (as far as I can tell) a result of the way he configured his machine. It's not helpful -- it's disruptive and it distracts Mandrake's people from *real* bug-fixing. I've been on countless bug tracking lists, and you know what I see? Lots of people who don't know how to set up their software hollering at the top of their lungs "Hey, I found a bug! Fix this now! Your software is shit!" - There is a way to make bug reports. This is not one of them. Mandrake has a wish-list e-mail address -- let him use that, that will help improve the distribution. Software development is bloody hard work, just so you know -- there's a lot to consider, a lot to plan, and it takes time. Given that 7.0 is Mandrake's first proper distribution, I think it's fair to give them the benefit of the doubt. Anyway, like you, I'm tiring of this whole discussion. -Stephen-
Re: [expert] You people just don't get it
John Aldrich wrote: On Wed, 12 Apr 2000, you wrote: What I meant is that novice users use the distro too, and they are not so smart in figuring out, what is not working correctly...And that is... MY question is, what the heck would a NOVICE be doing setting up a server If you're a NOVICE, you should call in an expert to help you set it up, or to set it up FOR You and show you which switches to pull and which buttons to push for what effect. John Or at least RTFM sufficiently. I was a newbie once and got to where I am mostly by reading all avaliable documentation first. (usually :) ) -- == "Comments are a very useful outlet for all of those really pissed off emotions you can have coming your way when coding. Whilst there's no-one there to take it out on at 3 in the morning, you just know that at some point in the future you're going to have given someone a really bad day." Satisfaction guaranteed. - nlvp (slashdot poster) ==
[expert] You people just don't get it
Hi! I am really SUPRISED to see such replies like: ...I don't use it, I don't care... ...This should be fixed by configuration alone... ...mrproper should be run... Hey THERE RE NOVICE USERS TOO! Not all are experienced in all this stuff and Mandrake should be USER FRIENDLY TOO, expecially for beginners! And I AM TOTALLY TOTALLY CONSEARNED BY THE FIRST ONE! I DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU DON'T USE IT, OTHERS ARE! And bugs like missing utility, that is not missing in any other distribution (even not in .tgz) are NASTY ONES! This is not a serious approach to develop a really good distribution...This SUX! Sorry I can't say anything else on such reply... I only hope the people by Mandrake are not thinking in such a way... bye, Alen -- *---* *E-Mail: Alen Salamun [EMAIL PROTECTED]* * LiNUX - The choice of GNU Generation! * *---*
Re: [expert] You people just don't get it
See below. Alen Salamun wrote: Hi! Hello. My name's Mike, aka Frank, as you may discover. I am really SUPRISED to see such replies like: ...I don't use it, I don't care... ...This should be fixed by configuration alone... ...mrproper should be run... Ya, that stinks for a reply, but it helps to show that although this is supposed to be an expert mailing list, well, not all using it are experts. Eh! Or, maybe the experts don't care to share their knowledge. Hey THERE ARE NOVICE USERS TOO! Not all are experienced in all this stuff and Mandrake should be USER FRIENDLY TOO, expecially for beginners! Again, this is the expert mailing list, albeit even experts are on a learning curve in some respects. Don't expect GOD, here, because you probably won't find Him, here. It's one thing to specialize as a systems administrator, or a developer (in some set of tools and languages, albeit no one knows all), etcetera. However, when installing Linux, doing the administration, setting up servers, and doing development, then there's much more to know than in typical niche jobs in large companies. It's important to remain realistic, always and in all ways. And I AM TOTALLY TOTALLY CONSEARNED BY THE FIRST ONE! I DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU DON'T USE IT, OTHERS ARE! Good point and friendly approach, that is, what you're suggesting or implying, and I like friendly people. I despise stuck up people, who remind me of something that's better left unstated, here. (I'm a people person and therefore believe in "people building".) And bugs like missing utility, that is not missing in any other distribution (even not in .tgz) are NASTY ONES! T'is not a bug. T'is only a missing utility. When you get the utility and it doesn't work, because of some error within the code of the utility, then that's a bug. There's definitely a distinct difference between what constitutes a bug, and merely a missing utility. For example, do you consider MS Windows NT Server 4.0 or Windows 2000 Server buggy after installing it and it lacks MS Office, compilers, etcetera? I'll bet 100:1 (of a non-existing money) that you don't. Take it easy here, this is Linux and Linux definitely doesn't cost the price of Windows NT Server, let alone Windows 2000 Server. I visited a little computer store in Quebec, recently, and Windows 2000 Server costs (if memory serves me accurately) around $5,000Cdn for six users, and $3,000Cdn for five users. Conversely, Mandrake Linux, a version which can be used for development and server, cost around $80Cdn. Hence, get a grip on reality, here, now. That's one of my prescriptions or recommendations, and you can send me $50Cdn for the prescription, which comes without pills. I can understand that you find some things don't work with Linux and or certain Linux distributions, but don't forget that Mandrake is not charging thousands of $$ for it's Linux distribution. You pay less for Mandrake and other Linux distributions than you would for MS Windows 2000 Workstation, and it doesn't come with all of the server capabilities as the many Linux distributions do; therefore, take it easy. Otherwise, create your own distribution, which is something I'ld definitely like to do. There are many good things said about Linux and some web sites like Network Computing, PC Magazine, ZD Net, and CNet, for example, contain articles from people who've examined Linux distributions to various extents. http://www.networkcomputing.com http://www.pcmag.com http://www.zdnet.com http://www.cnet.com There are also other locations and I think Information Week is one, but don't know the url off of the top of my head. I agree that some things don't work with some Linux distributions; however, I like to try to keep a real, clear, objective, sound perspective about such things, especially when the alternative (MS) solutions would cost MUCH more (which I can't afford - wallet's paper thin, like as in one sheet of thin paper, ya know what I mean?). Therefore, another prescription is PATIENCE, mon vieux. Know what you're dealing with and if you're not prepared to deal with it, then leave it, instead going for something else. I certainly don't expect the ride to be entirely smooth, however when comparing costs, well, I'll go for this ride any time. The little extra smoothness MS might provide isn't worth the astronomical difference in cost. Also, remember or learn about the history of Linux and how the distributions came to be. Linux was not developed as some capitalistic means to quick wealth. There was major amounts of work done by many people around the Globe and for free. There's much to be appreciated, but some problems therefore, inherently, need to be expected. If you're entirely intolerant, then you either need to move on to another OS, or take time to tranquilize the nerves, to adjust your expectations to what you're dealing with, realistically. Play it as if you're part of a symphony, and all
Re: [expert] You people just don't get it
Am Mit, 12 Apr 2000 schrieben Sie: Hi! I am really SUPRISED to see such replies like: ...I don't use it, I don't care... This should be fixed by configuration alone... mrproper should be run... Hey THERE RE NOVICE USERS TOO! Not all are experienced in all this stuff and Mandrake should be USER FRIENDLY TOO, expecially for beginners! And I AM TOTALLY TOTALLY CONSEARNED BY THE FIRST ONE! I DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU DON'T USE IT, OTHERS ARE! And bugs like missing utility, that is not missing in any other distribution (even not in .tgz) are NASTY ONES! This is not a serious approach to develop a really good distribution...This SUX! Sorry I can't say anything else on such reply... I only hope the people by Mandrake are not thinking in such a way... bye, Alen -- *---* *E-Mail: Alen Salamun [EMAIL PROTECTED]* * LiNUX - The choice of GNU Generation! * *---* Could you please stop shouting on us !!! If you need help you are welcome, but behave in a diffrent matter. Thanks Burkhard Zombronner
Re: [expert] You people just don't get it
Alen Salamun wrote: Hey THERE RE NOVICE USERS TOO! Not all are experienced in all this stuff and Mandrake should be USER FRIENDLY TOO, expecially for beginners! Seems that YOU don't get it: this list is named EXPERT and is supposed to be used by persons reasonably fluent with linux use config. For beginners there is ANOTHER list, in fact there are several as there are language-specific versions. So, my point is that beginners DON'T BELONG HERE ... or at least they should avoid to advertise themselves with LOUD messages. -- Jean-Louis Debert[EMAIL PROTECTED] 74 Annemasse France old Linux fan
