Re: [expert] Freedoms Past
Matthew Wright wrote: I'm sick of this topic. Me too Matthew. Having used Slackware, which still remains my favorite distribution, I find Mandrake absolutely brilliant. It installs in about 10 minutes and is basically all ready to play with. The Mandrake team have put together something which is as easy to install as Windoze and far superior. I run amateur radio nos in Linux 24 hrs a day and Linux has never crashed in about 7 or 8 years whereas dos and Windoze would daily. I joined this group thinking it would be a cut above most, but with a few exceptions, it's certainly got it's share of miscontents, enough to make anyone throw the towel in. Keep at it guys (Mandrake ones) you are doing an excellent job, but then I expect you know you are anyway!! Come on you punters give credit where credit is due. -- Graham P. Hamblin [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---
Re: [expert] Freedoms Past
I'm sick of this topic. First of all, where do you get off complaining about the Mandrake distro when it's a completely free operating system that gives you complete control? The guys at Mandrake have done an excellent job at puting together this distribution; having used the many other distributions out there, I happen to know that Mandrake's components and policies are second to none. Quite frankly, you can configure and use Mandrake or any other distribution however you want since it's mostly open source. I needed to compile a complete kdebase package just a while ago to get a newer version of kmp3 working. Rather than complain about the problem, I took the initiative and downloaded the source and compiled it. That's called "extending the capabilities" of your operating system, in case you didn't know. It's much more productive than writing some half-wit complaint to the expert-list to complain about how Mandrake and RedHat are becoming like Microsoft. If you really knew how to use Linux, you'd be able to fix your problems and then post the results to the expert list. That's what being a Linux expert is all about. You can recompile the kernel and reconfigure parts of the OS however you like. You can extend and expand what already exists. Better yet, quit complaining and start your own distribution. You can even base it off of Mandrake. Then you can patch it and make it "yours" since your way is obviously better than the Mandrake designers. Whatever you do, quit wasting time and bandwidth on these stupid issues, and maybe learn about Linux and fix it for a change. After all, you're free to do that, regardless of what Mandrake chooses to do. Save your dribble for newsgroups like alt.linux.unrealistic.expectations. On a related note, hats off to the Mandrake team for creating a great cutting-edge Linux distribution. I've used a lot of distributions; Mandrake seems to fit a variety of user levels and is still suitable for use by real experts. --Matt Pelon wrote: A disturbing trend in this modern age is that we feel compelled to protect us from ourselves. Microsoft offered up a convenient black box that protected us from the horrors of it's inner truth. Linux was to be the answer to that ignorance-by-consent. I began using Linux over two years ago for the sole reason that I could see inside. I could break it, rebuild it, tease it, and shape it as I pleased. I could play god, or "root" as it were. But now that the general public has turned on to Linux, there are pressures to see it controlled. No one wants to see anyone hurt themselves. The public must be protected. As Mandrake, Redhat, or any other distribution begins to feel the heat of a distraught public, certain measures must be taken. Mandrake's new security restrictions are what the public is asking for. Many of us are upset that our former freedoms have been robbed of us in the latest release. If there was ever a higher purpose to the Linux operating system, these changes are it's defeat. I would recommend two new classes of installation: 1. protect me from myself 2. let me be free pelon
Re: [expert] Freedoms Past
On Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 05:10:22PM -0400, Pelon wrote: [... much deleted ...] I would recommend two new classes of installation: 1. protect me from myself 2. let me be free These already exist. They're called security levels. You can have super tight so you can hardly login or do anything, or you can have super loose and invite the world to party on your machine. That's been there since 7.0. =) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED], OpenPGP key available on www.keyserver.net Freezer Burn BBS: telnet://bbs.freezer-burn.org . ICQ: 54924721 Webmaster for the Linux Portal Site Freezer Burn: http://www.freezer-burn.org Current Linux uptime: 1 day 3 hours 5 minutes.
Re: [expert] Freedoms Past
On Fri, Jul 21, 2000 at 11:44:32PM -0400, Hoyt wrote: Apparently this is the claim of a new distro - MaxOS - just 12 minutes from show to go. It'll be interesting to see just how they install. I can speak from experience here since I installed it one machine and watched it get installed on another while talking around with the CEO and the President (helps when they're in the same city). It does do as it claims... as soon as you select a partition, you walk away and come back in 12 minutes. *However* the drawbacks are all packages are pre-selected for you, you can't do any fine-tuning until you get into the system, and the installer is quite ugly (way too many flourecent colors!). Beyond that, however, I think MaxOS will be the new newbies distro because of it's super-easy install. Mind you, if Mandrake tried to do the same thing, we'd lose many many users. MaxOS is so simple as to be *too* simple. And it only comes with KDE (ugh). No GNOME. =( -- [EMAIL PROTECTED], OpenPGP key available on www.keyserver.net Freezer Burn BBS: telnet://bbs.freezer-burn.org . ICQ: 54924721 Webmaster for the Linux Portal Site Freezer Burn: http://www.freezer-burn.org Current Linux uptime: 1 day 3 hours 7 minutes.
Re: [expert] Freedoms Past
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: Better yet, quit complaining and start your own distribution. You can even base it off of Mandrake. Then you can patch it and make it "yours" since your way is obviously better than the Mandrake designers. sarcasm YEAH, and we can remove the need to log in at all, - just open a root session automatically, and give the end user the power to screw himself and shoot himself in the foot anytime he wants, and we can call this distribution Dick head Linux, or maybe, dare I say it Windows /sarcasm I Agree 100% with Matthew here, - get a life, and fix it if you don't like it. I have used Slackware, Redhat, Suse, debian and Mandrake, been subscribed to all of their lists, and have found the people that frequent the Mandrake lists to be the biggest babies (The people that complain about Mandrake, you know who you are). Get a life, quit complaining. You don't like it? go use Suse, Slack or whatever... I DON'T CARE just piss off. more people to put in my kill file -- +++ Allen Bolderoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] LNC - Linux, help and commentary http://linux.netnerve.com CTPC - Caffeine - get it here: http://www.coffee-tea-pots-cups.com/ +++ GPG fingerprint = CBB0 8626 702C 3D01 B5AD A54A DC2C 93B7 3E4B 6472 +++
Re: [expert] Freedoms Past
AMEN! Pelon wrote: A disturbing trend in this modern age is that we feel compelled to protect us from ourselves. Microsoft offered up a convenient black box that protected us from the horrors of it's inner truth. Linux was to be the answer to that ignorance-by-consent. I began using Linux over two years ago for the sole reason that I could see inside. I could break it, rebuild it, tease it, and shape it as I pleased. I could play god, or "root" as it were. But now that the general public has turned on to Linux, there are pressures to see it controlled. No one wants to see anyone hurt themselves. The public must be protected. As Mandrake, Redhat, or any other distribution begins to feel the heat of a distraught public, certain measures must be taken. Mandrake's new security restrictions are what the public is asking for. Many of us are upset that our former freedoms have been robbed of us in the latest release. If there was ever a higher purpose to the Linux operating system, these changes are it's defeat. I would recommend two new classes of installation: 1. protect me from myself 2. let me be free pelon
Re: [expert] Freedoms Past
I have been reading all of the problems that others have had with version 7.1 and sometimes think they are user caused. What we have to do is figure out the real cause of problems and then try and help. As with any OS, the user needs to understand how it works, and how her or his hardware fits in, and what must be done to make the OS compatible with the hardware. 73, ttyl Don On Fri, 21 Jul 2000, you wrote: - Original Message - From: "Ken Archer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 10:39 PM Subject: Re: [expert] Freedoms Past . Some of the recent threads on this list are getting a little old. If you want easy of installation and hand holding, go buy a box with Windows pre-installed. If you want a stable OS which allows you the freedoms to tweak your system as you see fit, then be prepared to do just that. You can't have it both ways. Mandrake has a great installation program and it keeps getting better (thanks guys), but you still can't just put a cd in the drive and come back an hour later and fire it up. Of course I haven't been able to do a fresh install of Windows on a new drive that way either. Apparently this is the claim of a new distro - MaxOS - just 12 minutes from show to go. It'll be interesting to see just how they install. Hoyt
Re: [expert] Freedoms Past
Is it ok if we piss on? I saw someone do that on a windows machine, I just hope the poor bugger had it unplugged!! On Sat, 22 Jul 2000, you wrote: Get a life, quit complaining. You don't like it? go use Suse, Slack or whatever... I DON'T CARE just piss off. -- +++ Allen Bolderoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] LNC - Linux, help and commentary http://linux.netnerve.com CTPC - Caffeine - get it here: http://www.coffee-tea-pots-cups.com/ +++ GPG fingerprint = CBB0 8626 702C 3D01 B5AD A54A DC2C 93B7 3E4B 6472 +++
Re: [expert] Freedoms Past
On Fri, 21 Jul 2000, you wrote: A disturbing trend in this modern age is that we feel compelled to protect us from ourselves. Microsoft offered up a convenient black box that protected us from the horrors of it's inner truth. Linux was to be the answer to that ignorance-by-consent. [snip] Many of us are upset that our former freedoms have been robbed of us in the latest release. If there was ever a higher purpose to the Linux operating system, these changes are it's defeat. You CAN still "play as root." It's just a bit more difficult. If you don't like it, install some other distro that's "wide open" (IF you can find one!) and run it! This is NOT just a "Mandrake" thing (not running as root) it's a *nix thing. AFAIK, you are strongly discouraged from running as "root" in BSD and SCO as well. Heck, even in RedHat there is a BIG notice when you first start up as "root" that you're running the Gnome file manager as "root" and that it's very dangerous. In ohter words, chill, dude! Just because Mandrake has gone a step further and made it more difficult to break things as root doesn't mean you've lost any freedom. You CAN by-pass those precautions. John
Re: [expert] Freedoms Past
Pelon wrote: A disturbing trend in this modern age is that we feel compelled to protect us from ourselves. Microsoft offered up a convenient black box that protected us from the horrors of it's inner truth. Linux was to be the answer to that ignorance-by-consent. I began using Linux over two years ago for the sole reason that I could see inside. I could break it, rebuild it, tease it, and shape it as I pleased. I could play god, or "root" as it were. But now that the general public has turned on to Linux, there are pressures to see it controlled. No one wants to see anyone hurt themselves. The public must be protected. As Mandrake, Redhat, or any other distribution begins to feel the heat of a distraught public, certain measures must be taken. Mandrake's new security restrictions are what the public is asking for. Many of us are upset that our former freedoms have been robbed of us in the latest release. If there was ever a higher purpose to the Linux operating system, these changes are it's defeat. I would recommend two new classes of installation: 1. protect me from myself 2. let me be free pelon I'd suggest just using another distribution; that's the point of distros, to pick one that suits your tastes. Mandrake seems to be aiming more for the newbie/average desktop user, while distros like Slackware are aimed for experienced power users (I fall in the middle... power-user who enjoys a GUI for everything but coding... sucks to be me). If a distro like Mandrake tried to accomadate everyone: servers, desktop, power user, shell freak, hacker (good meaning of the word), hacker (bad meaning of the word), and gamer, they'd have a slight problem. I mean, in order to be good at one thing, you have to lack in other areas. And offering all those install options would make bug/beta testing even harder (something I fear Mandrake has to do a bit better as it is), could very well increase the install size to that of SuSE (even requiring 2 CDs for essentianal packages now is just plain ridiculous - that much crap isn't needed). If you want choice, you have it. SuSE, RH, Mandrake, Debian, Corel, Yellow dog, Slackware, and some 1,000,000 more I can't think of right now. If you want a good distro, well, you still have all the above. ~,^ Sean Middleditch
Re: [expert] Freedoms Past
On Fri, 21 Jul 2000, you wrote: I believe you already have these "new classes of installation". They are called Low, Medium, High and Paranoid if I am not mistaken. FWIW I have been using Linux for 4 years and have tried all the popular distributions before settling on Mandrake. I am now using 7.1 with a little Cooker stirred in for good measure. Since I like the "bleeding edge" my system has been hosed many times, but EVERY time I have found a source to my problems it had its hands on my keyboard. Some of the recent threads on this list are getting a little old. If you want easy of installation and hand holding, go buy a box with Windows pre-installed. If you want a stable OS which allows you the freedoms to tweak your system as you see fit, then be prepared to do just that. You can't have it both ways. Mandrake has a great installation program and it keeps getting better (thanks guys), but you still can't just put a cd in the drive and come back an hour later and fire it up. Of course I haven't been able to do a fresh install of Windows on a new drive that way either. Many of us are upset that our former freedoms have been robbed of us in the latest release. If there was ever a higher purpose to the Linux operating system, these changes are it's defeat. I would recommend two new classes of installation: 1. protect me from myself 2. let me be free pelon -- Kenneth Archer + San Antonio, Texas [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ #24980801 Powered by Linux ++ Mailed by Kmail
Re: [expert] Freedoms Past
- Original Message - From: "Ken Archer" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 10:39 PM Subject: Re: [expert] Freedoms Past . Some of the recent threads on this list are getting a little old. If you want easy of installation and hand holding, go buy a box with Windows pre-installed. If you want a stable OS which allows you the freedoms to tweak your system as you see fit, then be prepared to do just that. You can't have it both ways. Mandrake has a great installation program and it keeps getting better (thanks guys), but you still can't just put a cd in the drive and come back an hour later and fire it up. Of course I haven't been able to do a fresh install of Windows on a new drive that way either. Apparently this is the claim of a new distro - MaxOS - just 12 minutes from show to go. It'll be interesting to see just how they install. Hoyt
