Re: [expert] funny

[Ron Marriage]

Try 
http://www.redhat.com

Many organizations when they get their domain names get com,
org and net, to prevent others from using too similiar a
name.  Check out whitehouse or nasa if you don't believe the
problems not doing so can cause. 

We use the com for our customers, org for internal testing
and just playing with new ideas, we plan to offer extended
services via the net domain.  I'm sure Red Hat does
something similiar.

Ron


Denis Havlik wrote:
> 
> Take a look at this:
> 
> http://www.redhat.org
> 
> ?:-O
> 
> Denis
> ---
> Denis Havlik  |||   http://www.ap.univie.ac.at/users/havlik
>  (@ @)  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> -oOO--(_)--OOo-

-- 

Ron Marriage
E-Mailmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage  http://www.seidata.com/~marriage

Re: [expert] funny

[Derek Simkowiak]

> Take a look at this:
> 
>   http://www.redhat.org

...hehehe, it took me a while to figure out what was going on.
www.redhat.org resolves to 127.0.0.1.  CLASSIC!

--Derek

Re: [expert] funny

[John Aldrich]

On Fri, 12 Nov 1999, you wrote:
> Take a look at this:
> 
>   http://www.redhat.org
> 
> ?:-O
> 
"Connection refused by server" :-(
John

Re: [expert] funny

[Denis Havlik]

:>Try 
:>http://www.redhat.com
:>
:>Many organizations when they get their domain names get com,
:>org and net, to prevent others from using too similiar a
:>name.  Check out whitehouse or nasa if you don't believe the
:>problems not doing so can cause. 
...

i know that, but redhat.org is running a mandrake .-)

cu
Denis
---
Denis Havlik  |||   http://www.ap.univie.ac.at/users/havlik
 (@ @)  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   
-oOO--(_)--OOo-

Re: [expert] funny

[Denis Havlik]

:>> Take a look at this:
:>> 
:>> http://www.redhat.org
:>
:>  ...hehehe, it took me a while to figure out what was going on.
:>www.redhat.org resolves to 127.0.0.1.  CLASSIC!
:>
Hey, you are right on that one! Where does that come from? Certainly not
from my "hosts" file... A RH easter egg in a Mandrake. ccc...

D.
---
Denis Havlik  |||   http://www.ap.univie.ac.at/users/havlik
 (@ @)  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   
-oOO--(_)--OOo-

Re: [expert] funny

[Christopher Cox]

Hi Ron,

You didn't look did you...:-)

www.redhat.org is a Microsoft Frontpage Personal Web Server ad.


Pretty low IMHO.

Regards

Christopher Cox

Re: [expert] funny

[Christopher Cox]

Ah.

Do I feel foolish. How did they do that!

Re: [expert] funny

[Tim & Val Litwiller]

it's not just in Linux that it resolves to 127.0.0.1,   I tried it in
MSIE5.


Christopher Cox wrote:

> Ah.
>
> Do I feel foolish. How did they do that!

Re: [expert] funny

[Derek Simkowiak]

> :>Try 
> :>http://www.redhat.com
> :>
> :>Many organizations when they get their domain names get com,
> :>org and net, to prevent others from using too similiar a
> :>name.  Check out whitehouse or nasa if you don't believe the
> :>problems not doing so can cause. 
> ...
> 
> i know that, but redhat.org is running a mandrake .-)

Hehehe... oh yeah?  Try accessing that site from a FreeBSD or
Solaris box.

It resolves to 127.0.0.1, which is the "loopback" interface.  That
URL always points back to your own machine.

--Derek

Re: [expert] funny

[Derek Simkowiak]

> :>...hehehe, it took me a while to figure out what was going on.
> :>www.redhat.org resolves to 127.0.0.1.  CLASSIC!
> :>
> Hey, you are right on that one! Where does that come from? Certainly not
> from my "hosts" file... A RH easter egg in a Mandrake. ccc...

They must have submitted that IP to Internic.

--Derek

Re: [expert] funny

[Derek Simkowiak]

> Hi Ron,
> 
> You didn't look did you...:-)
> 
> www.redhat.org is a Microsoft Frontpage Personal Web Server ad.
> 
> 
> Pretty low IMHO.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Christopher Cox

Hahahaha this is hilarious.  Now we know who's actually
running Mandrake and who's running that "other" O.S.

Christopher, SHAME on you... :)

--Derek

Re: [expert] funny

[Christopher Cox]

Yeah, I felt a little foolish after I determined that www.redhat.org is
registered up to 127.0.0.1.

But in the other hand I would not put linux on a client of mine's desk at
this point. Closet, yes, desk, no (Linux is replacing some NT & Unixware
servers). Mandrake has made some large strides in making the OS more user
friendy, but it seems allot less stable as well.

I really am hoping for Inprise to release BCB4.0 to Linux, then I suspect a
lot more apps will make themselves availablebut that is only a guess.

Here is to wishing.

Christopher Cox



>ha this is hilarious.  Now we know who's actually
> running Mandrake and who's running that "other" O.S.
> 
>   Christopher, SHAME on you... :)

Re: [expert] funny

[Steve Philp]

Christopher Cox wrote:
> 
> Yeah, I felt a little foolish after I determined that www.redhat.org is
> registered up to 127.0.0.1.
> 
> But in the other hand I would not put linux on a client of mine's desk at
> this point. Closet, yes, desk, no (Linux is replacing some NT & Unixware
> servers). Mandrake has made some large strides in making the OS more user
> friendy, but it seems allot less stable as well.

Why not?  It's fire and forget!

I did this _exact_ thing with my parents.  They use the computer for
exactly two things:  email and web browsing.  Prior to the Linux
Experiment, I got calls weekly about something that didn't work.  They
don't abuse the machine, they haven't loaded anything on the machine. 
It just pukes.

I put in the Linux machine, configured it once for their dialup
connection, gave them both logins, started X, and showed them how to
connect and start Netscape.  

Ameritech isn't gaining any long distance money from them calling me
anymore.  I'm not losing my hair trying to debug the latest bits that
ended up under the desk.  And they're damned happy!

For business use, you bet I'd do it.  In a heartbeat.  The only thing
holding me back right now is the non-availability of industry-specific
applications.  

I can guarantee you that management would be extremely happy if we could
move to another solution.  No business risk from illegal software would
be right up there -- a local hospital recently got fined $250,000 for
employees copying software.  No licensing issues when implementing a new
server -- that could save us large amounts of money.  Remote
administration, software distribution, system management.  All at zero
cost.  I recently looked into PC-rdist for use in distribution Y2K
patches to the 100 PCs in our shops.  Each of the solutions was
outrageously priced considering we could do the same for _ZERO_ dollars
on another platform.

If people would look at this from a _SYSTEM MANAGEMENT_ view, they'd see
that Linux offers tremendous value.

For home users, we've been straddled with a number of issues because of
the Windows dominance and our notion of playing fair.  Dual-booting,
installing it themselves rather than pre-installed from a vendor, no
vendor support for hardware, etc.

Consider the possibility of Linux arriving preconfigured on your next
machine.  That reduces the difficulty of installation problem to exactly
nothing.  For the most part, you can download binary packages that you
install quickly and easily.  And system cleanup through the package
management system beats Windows uninstallers any day.  How many times
have you looked at a drive after uninstalling a Windows application and
STILL found remnants of it on the drive?  How many times have you been
bitten because two applications each install their OWN, modified library
into the system directory?  Count how many times the uninstaller just
threw up it's hands and asked for YOUR advice about shared libraries
that it didn't have a clue about -- do they belong to me?  can I delete
them?  what else is going to break?  

It's a VERY real problem that administrators on Windows platforms face
day in and day out.  Do YOU have time to sit and track the dependencies
of each piece of software on the machine?  How do you explain to the
user that while the application functions correctly for the PC across
the hall, it doesn't work on theirs despite the fact that they're
loading the exact same copy of the exact same application and libraries
as that other PC (it's a network install)?

I'm living this life.  I get paid well to do it, but if you think I
don't pine for the possibility of doing it in a better way, you're
nuts.  I'd LOVE to put stable computers in front of these people that
don't break when I install a Microsoft-issued service pack onto a
computer that contains nothing but Microsoft software and vendor
drivers.

> I really am hoping for Inprise to release BCB4.0 to Linux, then I suspect a
> lot more apps will make themselves availablebut that is only a guess.

I don't get this logic...  Compilers, IDEs, libraries and the rest have
been available on Linux from the very beginning.  What sort of "magic
bullet" is BCB4?  Is it just that it offers a pretty picture for
programmers to look at while coding so they don't feel intimidated?  

-- 
Steve Philp
Network Administrator
Advance Packaging Corporation
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [expert] funny

[timothylewis]

RIGHT ON!  Fortunately for me, I report to a CEO who is at the same time
computer-challenged and industry-wise.  I have begun moving Linux, NT out.  He
is all for it, as long as it worksWHICH IT DOES!

Tim


Steve Philp wrote:

> Christopher Cox wrote:
> >
> > Yeah, I felt a little foolish after I determined that www.redhat.org is
> > registered up to 127.0.0.1.
> >
> > But in the other hand I would not put linux on a client of mine's desk at
> > this point. Closet, yes, desk, no (Linux is replacing some NT & Unixware
> > servers). Mandrake has made some large strides in making the OS more user
> > friendy, but it seems allot less stable as well.
>
> Why not?  It's fire and forget!
>
> I did this _exact_ thing with my parents.  They use the computer for
> exactly two things:  email and web browsing.  Prior to the Linux
> Experiment, I got calls weekly about something that didn't work.  They
> don't abuse the machine, they haven't loaded anything on the machine.
> It just pukes.
>
> I put in the Linux machine, configured it once for their dialup
> connection, gave them both logins, started X, and showed them how to
> connect and start Netscape.
>
> Ameritech isn't gaining any long distance money from them calling me
> anymore.  I'm not losing my hair trying to debug the latest bits that
> ended up under the desk.  And they're damned happy!
>
> For business use, you bet I'd do it.  In a heartbeat.  The only thing
> holding me back right now is the non-availability of industry-specific
> applications.
>
> I can guarantee you that management would be extremely happy if we could
> move to another solution.  No business risk from illegal software would
> be right up there -- a local hospital recently got fined $250,000 for
> employees copying software.  No licensing issues when implementing a new
> server -- that could save us large amounts of money.  Remote
> administration, software distribution, system management.  All at zero
> cost.  I recently looked into PC-rdist for use in distribution Y2K
> patches to the 100 PCs in our shops.  Each of the solutions was
> outrageously priced considering we could do the same for _ZERO_ dollars
> on another platform.
>
> If people would look at this from a _SYSTEM MANAGEMENT_ view, they'd see
> that Linux offers tremendous value.
>
> For home users, we've been straddled with a number of issues because of
> the Windows dominance and our notion of playing fair.  Dual-booting,
> installing it themselves rather than pre-installed from a vendor, no
> vendor support for hardware, etc.
>
> Consider the possibility of Linux arriving preconfigured on your next
> machine.  That reduces the difficulty of installation problem to exactly
> nothing.  For the most part, you can download binary packages that you
> install quickly and easily.  And system cleanup through the package
> management system beats Windows uninstallers any day.  How many times
> have you looked at a drive after uninstalling a Windows application and
> STILL found remnants of it on the drive?  How many times have you been
> bitten because two applications each install their OWN, modified library
> into the system directory?  Count how many times the uninstaller just
> threw up it's hands and asked for YOUR advice about shared libraries
> that it didn't have a clue about -- do they belong to me?  can I delete
> them?  what else is going to break?
>
> It's a VERY real problem that administrators on Windows platforms face
> day in and day out.  Do YOU have time to sit and track the dependencies
> of each piece of software on the machine?  How do you explain to the
> user that while the application functions correctly for the PC across
> the hall, it doesn't work on theirs despite the fact that they're
> loading the exact same copy of the exact same application and libraries
> as that other PC (it's a network install)?
>
> I'm living this life.  I get paid well to do it, but if you think I
> don't pine for the possibility of doing it in a better way, you're
> nuts.  I'd LOVE to put stable computers in front of these people that
> don't break when I install a Microsoft-issued service pack onto a
> computer that contains nothing but Microsoft software and vendor
> drivers.
>
> > I really am hoping for Inprise to release BCB4.0 to Linux, then I suspect a
> > lot more apps will make themselves availablebut that is only a guess.
>
> I don't get this logic...  Compilers, IDEs, libraries and the rest have
> been available on Linux from the very beginning.  What sort of "magic
> bullet" is BCB4?  Is it just that it offers a pretty picture for
> programmers to look at while coding so they don't feel intimidated?
>
> --
> Steve Philp
> Network Administrator
> Advance Packaging Corporation
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

--
To reply to me, please remove __DIE_SPAMMERS__ from my reply-to address.

Re: [expert] funny

[Steve Philp]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> RIGHT ON!  Fortunately for me, I report to a CEO who is at the same time
> computer-challenged and industry-wise.  I have begun moving Linux, NT out.  He
> is all for it, as long as it worksWHICH IT DOES!

I have the incredible luck of having a boss who tells me what she wants
and when she wants it without an edict on the how to accomplish it. 
She's highly computer-literate, but she also recognizes that the IS
department is PAID to make these kinds of decisions.  After all, we're
the ones that will have to manage, secure, and maintain the systems
after implementation.

I'm NOT arguing that Linux is the correct solution in every instance. 
If I were getting paged every Sunday night to fix a problem with one of
our Linux machines, you must realize that I'd have no second thoughts
about ripping it right back out and replacing it with something that
worked.  Fortunately, that hasn't happened for our tasks.

-- 
Steve Philp
Network Administrator
Advance Packaging Corporation
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [expert] funny

[Derek Simkowiak]

> friendy, but it seems allot less stable as well.

I have not had any stability problems.  So far, I've seen a couple
of install-related issues, but they are minor.

As for Linux on the desktop, yes, I agree that more work needs to
be done.

The shell prompt must BE ABLE to disappear.  It should always be
there for folks like me, but my mother (and the millions she represents)  
needs something easier than a Mac.


--Derek

Re: [expert] funny

[Denis Havlik]

:~>For business use, you bet I'd do it.  In a heartbeat.  The only thing
:~>holding me back right now is the non-availability of industry-specific
:~>applications.  

I have been doing it in our institute for the last two years. Last month I
have also installed two Mandrake boxes for our secretaries.
Mandrakes Printing-bugs have costed me a lot of work, but other than that
everyone is happy.

Another problem is apparent lack of interest in security-related issues
here... If i start putting RedHat-s security updates on Mandrake machines,
sooner or later I will switch bach to RedHat. "Bind" beeing the latest,
and I do hope the LAST of those issues.  

cu
Denis
-
Mag. Denis Havlik  
University of Vienna||| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Austria(@ @)   tel: (++431) 4277/51179 
---oOO--(_)--OOo-

Re: [expert] funny

[Christopher Cox]

--
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [expert] funny
> Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999 11:10 PM
> 
> RIGHT ON!  Fortunately for me, I report to a CEO who is at the same
time
> computer-challenged and industry-wise.  I have begun moving Linux, NT
out.  He
> is all for it, as long as it worksWHICH IT DOES!
> 
> Tim
> 


He obviously does not use, or do business with anyone who uses, 

Quicken, TurboTax, Excel, Word, Powerpoint, need a powerfull graphics
editor, do any VB programming..

I think you understand.

Christopher Cox

Re: [expert] funny

[John Aldrich]

On Mon, 15 Nov 1999, you wrote:
> 
> He obviously does not use, or do business with anyone who uses, 
> 
>   Quicken, TurboTax, Excel, Word, Powerpoint, need a powerfull graphics
> editor, do any VB programming..
> 
> I think you understand.
> 
There is a good "Excel-compatible" spreadsheet in Star
Office. Also SO is backwards-compatible with Office-97's
word DOC files. It is my understanding that GIMP is quite a
powerful graphics editor. Also, Star Office has a
presentatino program which I think is supposed to be
compatible with Powerpoint. That only leaves Quicken,
Turbotax and VB.
John

Re: [expert] funny

[Civileme]

Christopher Cox wrote:

> --
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [expert] funny
> > Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999 11:10 PM
> >
> > RIGHT ON!  Fortunately for me, I report to a CEO who is at the same
> time
> > computer-challenged and industry-wise.  I have begun moving Linux, NT
> out.  He
> > is all for it, as long as it worksWHICH IT DOES!
> >
> > Tim
> >
>
> He obviously does not use, or do business with anyone who uses,
>
> Quicken, TurboTax, Excel, Word, Powerpoint, need a powerfull graphics
> editor, do any VB programming..
>
> I think you understand.
>
> Christopher Cox
>

Hm

Yes, we do business with people who use Word, Excel, Powerpoint, etc.  We have
LOTS of trouble with them in a WINDOWS environment.  The runaway versioning and
untrained email transmitters make a real hash of trying to communicate.

Enter Linux.  With StarOffice 5.1 and the macutils, we can now read mail and
receive files from others, including MAC users (a real problem before) and from
almost all versions.  We have trained our employees to send out email
attachments using RTF and other "standard" interchange formats.

Now TurboTax and Quicken are different stories.  We have equivalents, but no
true file transfer.  Also, the accounting programs are different, but there are
more than a few available, and some of the packages expensive on any system are
available for both, like Fundware.  The "application barrier to entry" is not as
high as most would believe, which suits me well.  I have a system I know to be
Y2K compliant and for which I need not worry which pieces have fallen off since
last night when I go to work in the morning.

One of the other folks here who has been busily, even frantically, installing
Windows2000 BETA 3 for about 300 users is now dealing with infection by several
email-borne exploits (he calls them viruses, and they are in a sense since they
seem to be traveling by replies to email) that sneaked in on *.xls and *.doc
attachments and went right through the API drivers into the op system core.

You pays your money and you takes your choice.  I don't have to worry about
email borne exploits or Y2K compatibility, and we have enough compatibility for
normal communication purposes, MORE in fact than we used to have with Windows,
where someone always had the wrong version, either newer than ours or older
depending on which way the email went.

Civileme

RE: [expert] funny

[Fred Frigerio]

There was a report of Quicken working under Wine but I wouldn't trust
that too much. And of course you can alway put VMware.

> -Original Message-
> From: John Aldrich [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999 2:03 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [expert] funny
> 
> 
> On Mon, 15 Nov 1999, you wrote:
> > 
> > He obviously does not use, or do business with anyone who uses, 
> > 
> > Quicken, TurboTax, Excel, Word, Powerpoint, need a 
> powerfull graphics
> > editor, do any VB programming..
> > 
> > I think you understand.
> > 
> There is a good "Excel-compatible" spreadsheet in Star
> Office. Also SO is backwards-compatible with Office-97's
> word DOC files. It is my understanding that GIMP is quite a
> powerful graphics editor. Also, Star Office has a
> presentatino program which I think is supposed to be
> compatible with Powerpoint. That only leaves Quicken,
> Turbotax and VB.
>   John
> 

Re: [expert] funny

[Civileme]

Denis Havlik wrote:

>
>
> Another problem is apparent lack of interest in security-related issues
> here... If i start putting RedHat-s security updates on Mandrake machines,
> sooner or later I will switch bach to RedHat. "Bind" beeing the latest,
> and I do hope the LAST of those issues.
>
> cu
> Denis

Just because RedHat issues a security update does not mean that Mandrake is
similarly vulnerable.  Axalon did mention in a post that these issues are
checked, and updates issued if a similar vulnerability exists.

The organization of the filesystems is still the same, so putting in a RH
security update should(#include Stddisclaimer.h) work for a little while
longer, but it is a practice I have discontinued here.

Civileme

Re: [expert] funny

[Derek Simkowiak]

> > Quicken, TurboTax, Excel, Word, Powerpoint, need a powerfull graphics
> > editor, do any VB programming..
> > 
> > I think you understand.

> There is a good "Excel-compatible" spreadsheet in Star
[...]
> compatible with Powerpoint. That only leaves Quicken, Turbotax and VB.

No, there's also Visio, PVCS, Visual Studio, Schedule+, Macromedia
Director, Adobe Premiere/AfterEffects, TruSpace, AutoCAD, etc., etc., etc.  
Besides that, Star Office does not interoperate with my other desktop
applications.

I am one of the most passionate Linux supporters you'll ever meet.
I use it everyday and on 6 machines in my home network.  But we cannot put
ourselves in denial re: the lack of certain business applications.  Much
work is left to be done.  

--Derek

Re: [expert] funny

[Christopher Cox]

> There is a good "Excel-compatible" spreadsheet in Star
> Office. Also SO is backwards-compatible with Office-97's
> word DOC files. It is my understanding that GIMP is quite a
> powerful graphics editor. Also, Star Office has a
> presentatino program which I think is supposed to be
> compatible with Powerpoint. That only leaves Quicken,
> Turbotax and VB.
>   John

I have yet to load Star Office, but have it sitting next to me. Gimp does
net even come close to a Image Composer of sorts. I will play with Star
Office to see what that plugs up. The off the shelf stuff like Quiken,
TurboTax and the lack of a VB is really going to be tough to fill.

Later

Christopher Cox

RE: [expert] funny

[Singer XJ Wang]

On Mon, 15 Nov 1999, Fred Frigerio wrote:

> There was a report of Quicken working under Wine but I wouldn't trust
> that too much. And of course you can alway put VMware.
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: John Aldrich [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999 2:03 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [expert] funny
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, 15 Nov 1999, you wrote:
> > > 
> > > He obviously does not use, or do business with anyone who uses, 
> > > 
> > >   Quicken, TurboTax, Excel, Word, Powerpoint, need a 
> > powerfull graphics
> > > editor, do any VB programming..
> > > 
> > > I think you understand.
> > > 
> > There is a good "Excel-compatible" spreadsheet in Star
> > Office. Also SO is backwards-compatible with Office-97's
> > word DOC files. It is my understanding that GIMP is quite a
> > powerful graphics editor. Also, Star Office has a
> > presentatino program which I think is supposed to be
> > compatible with Powerpoint. That only leaves Quicken,
> > Turbotax and VB.
> > John
> > 

GIMP is not a powerful graphics editor IMO. I mean its good if you do
web/computer graphics [RGB] but for people like me who does PRINT [PAPER]
graphics, it sucks. I'll switch to GIMP once it has CYMK SUpport.

Re: [expert] funny

[Duncan Hall]

Lets not forget access, visio and project!!!
Any suggestions?
Dunc
Christopher Cox wrote:
> There is a good "Excel-compatible" spreadsheet
in Star
> Office. Also SO is backwards-compatible with Office-97's
> word DOC files. It is my understanding that GIMP is quite a
> powerful graphics editor. Also, Star Office has a
> presentatino program which I think is supposed to be
> compatible with Powerpoint. That only leaves Quicken,
> Turbotax and VB.
>   John
I have yet to load Star Office, but have it sitting next to me. Gimp
does
net even come close to a Image Composer of sorts. I will play with
Star
Office to see what that plugs up. The off the shelf stuff like Quiken,
TurboTax and the lack of a VB is really going to be tough to fill.
Later
Christopher Cox

-- \\- Duncan Hall
- SysAdmin Viator - Sydney AU +61 2 93616137 -\\ --
 

Re: [expert] funny

[David van Balen]

On Mon, 15 Nov 1999, Derek Simkowiak wrote:

> 
>   No, there's also Visio, PVCS, Visual Studio, Schedule+, Macromedia
> Director, Adobe Premiere/AfterEffects, TruSpace, AutoCAD, etc., etc., etc.  
> Besides that, Star Office does not interoperate with my other desktop
> applications.

I'm pretty sure there's an Xwindows version of PVCS. My dept used to use
it until we migrated to perforce. Dunno where you'd find it though.

DvB



> 
>   I am one of the most passionate Linux supporters you'll ever meet.
> I use it everyday and on 6 machines in my home network.  But we cannot put
> ourselves in denial re: the lack of certain business applications.  Much
> work is left to be done.  
> 
> --Derek
> 
> 

Re: [expert] funny

[David van Balen]

On Mon, 15 Nov 1999, Christopher Cox wrote:

> I have yet to load Star Office, but have it sitting next to me. Gimp does
> net even come close to a Image Composer of sorts. I will play with Star
> Office to see what that plugs up. The off the shelf stuff like Quiken,
> TurboTax and the lack of a VB is really going to be tough to fill.


I detest VB anyway.

DvB


> 
> Later
> 
> Christopher Cox
> 

Re: [expert] funny

[Ron Marriage]

I use Star Office and find it excellent, I import MS docs
all the time in my work and have no problems.  I have
imported mostly WP docs but have done a couple spreadsheets
without problem, and one presentation which came out only
pretty good.  A little fiddling with it and it was fine.

I don't do graphics, but my son is a graphic designer and
college student majoring in graphic design.  His opinion of
GIMP when he came home on break was that it "sucks".  Two
weeks later he had added plugins, filters, macros, and
generally built something that he liked and is using in his
work.  Will he delete $1000 of Adobe products from his
computer, He best not, but he did take his computer back
duel booting with linux because of graphic tools.

As a programmer, I often wonder about OS specific programs.
Will you ever see MS port VB to linux? While VB is a nice
program, it isn't the world, We shouldn't limit ourselves.

Linux business aps are appearing everyday.  I am thrilled
with the amount of work being done to fill this gap.  Is it
filled yet, no, but its getting better everyday.

Instead of looking at programs we can't get, why not look at
those we can run. Wine supports many programs, and there are
good replacements for many others.  

I guess I remember when Mac people thought windows such a
poor OS, because they couldn't routinely read their Claris
Works documents. 

Ron


Christopher Cox wrote:
> 
> > There is a good "Excel-compatible" spreadsheet in Star
> > Office. Also SO is backwards-compatible with Office-97's
> > word DOC files. It is my understanding that GIMP is quite a
> > powerful graphics editor. Also, Star Office has a
> > presentatino program which I think is supposed to be
> > compatible with Powerpoint. That only leaves Quicken,
> > Turbotax and VB.
> >   John
> 
> I have yet to load Star Office, but have it sitting next to me. Gimp does
> net even come close to a Image Composer of sorts. I will play with Star
> Office to see what that plugs up. The off the shelf stuff like Quiken,
> TurboTax and the lack of a VB is really going to be tough to fill.
> 
> Later
> 
> Christopher Cox

-- 

Ron Marriage
E-Mailmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Homepage  http://www.seidata.com/~marriage

Re: [expert] funny

[John Aldrich]

On Mon, 15 Nov 1999, you wrote:
>   No, there's also Visio, PVCS, Visual Studio, Schedule+, Macromedia
> Director, Adobe Premiere/AfterEffects, TruSpace, AutoCAD, etc., etc., etc.  
> Besides that, Star Office does not interoperate with my other desktop
> applications.
>
Agreed. However, I was just pointing out that of the examples you
listed, at least half had counterparts under Linux, if not that
version. Also, more and more companies are porting their apps to
linux. Macromedia is coming out with a version of their software for
Linux, I've heard. Assuming Schedule+ is some sort of appointment
book/organizer software, you'll find a counterpart in Linux. I'm not
saying there's not room for the EXACT same MS Operating system
clients under Linux, I'm just saying that I think there are
comparable programs for more of them than you realize.
>
>   I am one of the most passionate Linux supporters
> you'll ever meet. I use it everyday and on 6 machines in my home
> network.  But we cannot put ourselves in denial re: the lack of
> certain business applications.  Much work is left to be done.  
> 
No question. I just think you're seeing the glass as "half-empty"
when I'm seeing it as "half-full." ;-)
John

Re: [expert] funny

[John Aldrich]

On Mon, 15 Nov 1999, you wrote:
> 
> I have yet to load Star Office, but have it sitting next to me. Gimp does
> net even come close to a Image Composer of sorts. I will play with Star
> Office to see what that plugs up. The off the shelf stuff like Quiken,
> TurboTax and the lack of a VB is really going to be tough to fill.
> 
Please keep in mind that most VB apps are Windows-only these days.
They don't run on any other O/S. However, there are other Programming
"environment packages" that will allow you to create C, C++, Java,
etc for use on MULTIPLE O/Ses.
I've heard that Adobe Illustrator (I think it is) is going to be
released for Linux RSN (Real Soon Now -- as in this month, IIRC!) I
have never used that, but I hear (from a web design guru) that it's a
real "kick-butt" graphics app! More and More, Adobe is porting their
commercial software packages to Linux. IF a big company like Adobe is
willing to port to Linux, how many other BIG companies are going to
sit on the sidelines while their competition rakes in the bux for a
Linux version of their software?
John

RE: [expert] funny

[John Aldrich]

On Mon, 15 Nov 1999, you wrote:
> GIMP is not a powerful graphics editor IMO. I mean its good if you do
> web/computer graphics [RGB] but for people like me who does PRINT [PAPER]
> graphics, it sucks. I'll switch to GIMP once it has CYMK SUpport.
>
Just wait. I predict a Linux version of Photoshop at least in
development sometime before the end of 2000. :-) That's just a guess,
especially if Adobe Illustrator (I think that's the name) does well
with their Linux version.
John

Re: [expert] funny

[John Aldrich]

On Mon, 15 Nov 1999, you wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Nov 1999, Derek Simkowiak wrote:
> 
> > 
> > No, there's also Visio, PVCS, Visual Studio, Schedule+, Macromedia
> > Director, Adobe Premiere/AfterEffects, TruSpace, AutoCAD, etc., etc., etc.  
> > Besides that, Star Office does not interoperate with my other desktop
> > applications.
> 
> I'm pretty sure there's an Xwindows version of PVCS. My dept used to use
> it until we migrated to perforce. Dunno where you'd find it though.
> 
Linuxberg??? :-)
John

Re: [expert] funny

[Derek Simkowiak]

> > I'm pretty sure there's an Xwindows version of PVCS. 

Hmm.  Didn't know that. :)  I like CVS.

Anyway, I think it's about time we end this thread.  It started on
a loopback DNS entry, and (so far) is somewhere near a long discussion of
LinuxBerg vs. Freshmeat vs. Sal.kachinatech.com

--Derek

Re: [expert] funny

[David van Balen]

On Mon, 15 Nov 1999, John Aldrich wrote:

> On Mon, 15 Nov 1999, you wrote:
> > On Mon, 15 Nov 1999, Derek Simkowiak wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > >   No, there's also Visio, PVCS, Visual Studio, Schedule+, Macromedia
> > > Director, Adobe Premiere/AfterEffects, TruSpace, AutoCAD, etc., etc., etc.  
> > > Besides that, Star Office does not interoperate with my other desktop
> > > applications.
> > 
> > I'm pretty sure there's an Xwindows version of PVCS. My dept used to use
> > it until we migrated to perforce. Dunno where you'd find it though.
> > 
> Linuxberg??? :-)
>   John
> 

Actually, I think it was a commercial product. I remember most of the
developers in my group didn't really like the way it was implemented so we
switched to perforce (www.perforce.com, if I'm not mistaken) which will
run on both Unix and NT... Much better, IMO.

DvB

Re: [expert] funny

[Denis Havlik]

:>  No, there's also Visio, PVCS, Visual Studio, Schedule+, Macromedia
:>Director, Adobe Premiere/AfterEffects, TruSpace, AutoCAD, etc., etc., etc.  
:>Besides that, Star Office does not interoperate with my other desktop
:>applications.

If you really have to use all of them, better stay with windows. If you
are using only one-or-two  of them on occational basis AND have a fast
machine with plenty of RAM, you can use linux+VMware. It saves the
administrator a lot of work.

cu
Denis 
---
Denis Havlik  |||   http://www.ap.univie.ac.at/users/havlik
 (@ @)  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   
-oOO--(_)--OOo-

Re: [expert] funny

[Joseph S. Gardner]

John Aldrich wrote:

> On Mon, 15 Nov 1999, you wrote:
> >   No, there's also Visio, PVCS, Visual Studio, Schedule+, Macromedia
> > Director, Adobe Premiere/AfterEffects, TruSpace, AutoCAD, etc., etc., etc.
> > Besides that, Star Office does not interoperate with my other desktop
> > applications.
> >
> Agreed. However, I was just pointing out that of the examples you
> listed, at least half had counterparts under Linux, if not that
> version. Also, more and more companies are porting their apps to
> linux. Macromedia is coming out with a version of their software for
> Linux, I've heard. Assuming Schedule+ is some sort of appointment
> book/organizer software, you'll find a counterpart in Linux. I'm not
> saying there's not room for the EXACT same MS Operating system
> clients under Linux, I'm just saying that I think there are
> comparable programs for more of them than you realize.
> >
> >   I am one of the most passionate Linux supporters
> > you'll ever meet. I use it everyday and on 6 machines in my home
> > network.  But we cannot put ourselves in denial re: the lack of
> > certain business applications.  Much work is left to be done.
> >
> No question. I just think you're seeing the glass as "half-empty"
> when I'm seeing it as "half-full." ;-)
> John

I think the glass is twice as big as it needs to be (hehehe)


--
Joseph S. Gardner
Senior Designer / Technical Support
Kirby Co.,  Cleveland, OH
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [expert] funny

[John Aldrich]

On Tue, 16 Nov 1999, you wrote:
> > No question. I just think you're seeing the glass as "half-empty"
> > when I'm seeing it as "half-full." ;-)
> > John
> 
> I think the glass is twice as big as it needs to be (hehehe)
> 
Well.I think there's a lot of apps that currently run
only under Windows, but which would be nice to have under
Linux. :-)
John

Re: [expert] funny

[Derek Simkowiak]

> Well.I think there's a lot of apps that currently run
> only under Windows, but which would be nice to have under
> Linux. :-)

Yeah, like "Homeworld".  Have you guys played that?  It's
incredible.

Especially if you've read "Ender's Game".

--Derek

P.S.> Should we rename this thread, since it's been off-topic for the last
20 messages or so?

Re: [expert] funny xine bug in Mandrake 8.2

[ddc_prueba]

I'm using 8.2 with:
 libxine0-0.9.13-3plf
 xmms-1.2.7-4mdk

and does NOT have that problem (and have never had it before updating
xine from http://plf.zarb.org/ anyway maybe you should try to upgrade if
not having done to see if that helps.

Good luck.




El jue, 24-10-2002 a las 10:23, t_gecks escribió:
> Bug (with solution)
> 
> I'm experiencing a funny bug here with xine. It only shows the video 
> output when xmms is up (but not playing anything). Audio works 
> flawlessly anytime.
> If xmms is missing the video output is represented by a green area only.
> This thing happens to me on two different workstations under KDE 2.2.2.
> 
> 
> ciao
> 
> Thorsten
> 
> 
> 
> 

> Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
> Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
-- 
   Diego  Dominguez 
  __/\__  
 |  | 
 Andalucia  /\  Spain
\/
 |__  __| 
\/


___
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Re: [expert] funny xine bug in Mandrake 8.2

[Francisco Alcaraz Ariza]

For my xine 0.913 is runing almost perfect under 9.2 and did also that under 
8.2 (0.9.10 and 0.9.13)
Francisco Alcaraz
Murcia (Spain)


El Jue 24 Oct 2002 19:25, ddc_prueba escribió:
> I'm using 8.2 with:
>  libxine0-0.9.13-3plf
>  xmms-1.2.7-4mdk
>
> and does NOT have that problem (and have never had it before updating
> xine from http://plf.zarb.org/ anyway maybe you should try to upgrade if
> not having done to see if that helps.
>
> Good luck.
>
> El jue, 24-10-2002 a las 10:23, t_gecks escribió:
> > Bug (with solution)
> >
> > I'm experiencing a funny bug here with xine. It only shows the video
> > output when xmms is up (but not playing anything). Audio works
> > flawlessly anytime.
> > If xmms is missing the video output is represented by a green area only.
> > This thing happens to me on two different workstations under KDE 2.2.2.
> >
> >
> > ciao
> >
> > Thorsten
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> > Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft?
> > Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

-- 
Francisco Alcaraz Ariza
Departamento de Biología Vegetal
Universidad de Murcia
E-30100 Murcia
España (Spain)


Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

RE: [expert] funny - www.redhat.org - Why Resolve to Localhost?

[Andy Abshagen]

Because that is how someone has set it up on their dns server.  I did check
and it is not owned by RedHat at all.
Most likely just someone that was wanting the domain for email only and
wanted to play a joke on everyone else.

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Sevatio Octavio
> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 1999 1:23 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [expert] funny - www.redhat.org - Why Resolve to Localhost?
>
>
> Why does http://www.redhat.org resolve to 127.0.0.1?  I'm using
> Windurs 98 with IE.
>
> Seve

RE: [expert] funny - www.redhat.org - Why Resolve to Localhost?

[Denis Havlik]

:>Because that is how someone has set it up on their dns server.  I did check
:>and it is not owned by RedHat at all.
:>Most likely just someone that was wanting the domain for email only and
:>wanted to play a joke on everyone else.

This is the best practical joke I have seen in the long time...

I was not avare that one can put "private" IP - addresses in "public" DNS.
Actually the fact that 127.0.0.1 address gets resolved over "public" DNS
at all sounds completely weird to me. I have always thought
all the internet infrastructure ignores non-routable IP-addreses.

Denis

RE: [expert] funny - www.redhat.org - Why Resolve to Localhost?

[Dan Swartzendruber]

At 01:16 AM 11/14/99 +0100, Denis Havlik wrote:
>:>Because that is how someone has set it up on their dns server.  I did check
>:>and it is not owned by RedHat at all.
>:>Most likely just someone that was wanting the domain for email only and
>:>wanted to play a joke on everyone else.
>
>This is the best practical joke I have seen in the long time...
>
>I was not avare that one can put "private" IP - addresses in "public" DNS.
>Actually the fact that 127.0.0.1 address gets resolved over "public" DNS
>at all sounds completely weird to me. I have always thought
>all the internet infrastructure ignores non-routable IP-addreses.

That's at the routing level, yes.  As far as I am aware, no-one does any
real sanity checking on the content of "A" records returned by a forward
lookup.

RE: [expert] funny - www.redhat.org - Why Resolve to Localhost?

[Derek Simkowiak]

> Because that is how someone has set it up on their dns server. 

Oops, I wasn't thinking before when I said someone submitted it to
Internic with that address.  They just configured their bind server that
way.

I guess it's time for a cup of coffee... 

--Derek

RE: [expert] funny - www.redhat.org - Why Resolve to Localhost?

[Derek Simkowiak]

> I was not avare that one can put "private" IP - addresses in "public" DNS.
> Actually the fact that 127.0.0.1 address gets resolved over "public" DNS
> at all sounds completely weird to me. I have always thought
> all the internet infrastructure ignores non-routable IP-addreses.

You're not sending any routed packets to 127.0.0.1.  All you're
doing is sending a request to a DNS server that says, "Hey, what IP
address does the name www.redhat.org resolve to?"

Since the owner of "redhat.org" configured "www.redhat.org" to
resolve to the loopback address, you get a response to your DNS question
that says "www.redhat.org resolves to the following IP address:
127.0.0.1".  Then, your web browser tries to connect to that IP.

If you're running a web server, you see the output.

No packets are ever "routed" to that IP address.

I own a domain... I might have one of the hostnames resolve to
192.168.0.1.  That would have some very interesting results on certain
networks.

--Derek

Re: [expert] funny - www.redhat.org - Why Resolve to Localhost?

[Chris Roupp]

Humm... i wonder what that bogus address does to web bots. Might be a fun way
to make some bot traps.

-chris

Re: [expert] funny - www.redhat.org - Why Resolve to Localhost?

[Steve Philp]

Chris Roupp wrote:
> 
> Humm... i wonder what that bogus address does to web bots. Might be a fun way
> to make some bot traps.
> 
> -chris

If you don't run an HTTP server on the webbot machine, it will do
nothing.

-- 
Steve Philp
Network Administrator
Advance Packaging Corporation
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [expert] Funny Stuff (was I made it -- 1 year uptime)

[J. Craig Woods]

James wrote:
> 
> > memory leaks my ass...  :)
> 
> .. this sounds painful.  Have you seen a doctor about this
> condition?>
> > --
> > daRcmaTTeR

Shit! Now that was funny. James, I just thought you might like to know
that you gave me my best laugh today. Funny stuff...

drjung

-- 
J. Craig Woods
UNIX/NT Network/System Administration
http://www.trismegistus.net/resume.html
Character is built upon the debris of despair --Emerson



Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com

Re: [expert] Funny Stuff (was I made it -- 1 year uptime)

[daRcmaTTeR]

On Thu, 27 Jun 2002, J. Craig Woods wrote:

> James wrote:
> > 
> > > memory leaks my ass...  :)
> > 
> > .. this sounds painful.  Have you seen a doctor about this
> > condition?>
> > > --
> > > daRcmaTTeR
> 
> Shit! Now that was funny. James, I just thought you might like to know
> that you gave me my best laugh today. Funny stuff...
> 
> drjung

I know what you mean drjung! I nearly fell outa my seat and hit my head on 
the desk as I went down! 

-- 
daRmaTTeR

R L U: #186492
When ever people annoy me I remember, "Vengence is mine saith the Lord."
My prayer is, "...here am I Lord...send me!"




Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
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