date:20050516

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 RJ-Vaj group 
 
 Jim-anon-Bob group
 
 MMY /TMO group [ whatever that means ]
 
 nobody 
 
 all are correct.
 
 5 options, hurry up place your bets.
 
 
 [[ prize is big E ]]

Nobody.  It's all opinion, ALL of it.  And I 
suspect that the Big E is, in fact, the reward
for realizing it.  :-)

Unc






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

 When you go to Disneyland and get on a E-ticket ride (maybe E tickets 
 are passe, who knows), you stay on the ride til the end for complete 
 satisfaction. The Ks left -- too bad for them, but they were fools.
 
 The Ks could have been 200percenters, rich and enlightened, but like 
 stereotypical snotty rich kids, they threw a tantrum, made a lot of 
 faces, and left with their baseball glove, instead of sticking around 
 and helping the movement to grow.
 
 Duh. I'm so stupid. Why didn't I think of that?

Probably because you realized that stick with one
ride until the end was part of a dogma that was
carefully *taught* to you, and you rejected dogma,
not the ride.  As a result, you're still on the
ride (although a different ride), while others are 
merely out walking the dogma, in circles.  :-)

Unc






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

 Bob, it sounds like you are saying that is the Kaplans had stayed 
 longer then they definitely would have become enlightened (whatever 
 that means). What about all the people who faithfully followed MMY 
 until their deaths, did they achieve complete satisfaction, did they 
 all achieve a state of enlightenment? What are you talking about 
 here?

It sounds to me as if Bob has fully...uh...bought into
the idea that you can buy your way to enlightenment.

That's a popular idea in some spiritual organizations.
You can usually tell them from the others by the size
of their bank accounts, and by the number of people
still talking about enlightenment rather than living it.

Unc






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

2005-05-16 Thread easyone200

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  wrote:
 Death is no barrier to evolution, as MMY notes in his commentary on 
 verses 40-41 of Ch. 6 of the Gita. Regarding your question concerning 
 what enlightenment means, that's not exactly a mystery except on this 
 list: it means that one has gained unlimited awareness, and never 
 relinquishes it, not in sleep (or any other state), not in death of 
 the body.

Boba-thumper
You thump that gita with the best of 'em.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, easyone200 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
   wrote:
  Death is no barrier to evolution, as MMY notes in his commentary on 
  verses 40-41 of Ch. 6 of the Gita. Regarding your question 
concerning 
  what enlightenment means, that's not exactly a mystery except on 
this 
  list: it means that one has gained unlimited awareness, and never 
  relinquishes it, not in sleep (or any other state), not in death of 
  the body.
 
 Boba-thumper
 You thump that gita with the best of 'em.

LOL.  Can I get an Amen?  

Quoting scripture reflexively is not the same as 
stopping thought, but it's as close as some people 
ever get.   - some Zen master or another  :-)






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  ...but according to the poster, Gratzon didn't offer MMY 
  his income, he offered him his money or all of his stock in 
  Telegroup.  Both his money (and, yes, there may be a bit that 
  represented income in there) and his Telegroup stock were 
assets 
  which he could donate to charity as he saw fit.
  
  I'm not an accountant but I don't think there is a restriction 
on 
  how much of one's assets one can give a recognized charity 
(giving 
  to individuals is an entirely different matter...that can 
trigger a 
  gift tax if the annual gift is more than $11,000).  Yes, there 
is a 
  limit on how much of that gift can be deducted against adjusted 
  gross income each year (I think you've got 6 years to deduct it, 
  each year a maximum of 20% of AGI), but I don't think there's a 
  limit to have much of your assets you can donate.
 
 ***
 
 The stock was Gratzon's from day one, as he founded Telegroup, so 
the 
 gains in the stock price (from zip, which is what he paid) to 
 whatever value the stock had when he parted with it, would have 
been 
 subject to capital gains tax, and the 50% limit on deductability 
 would have applied.

...but you said it was a 50% limit on income.  Capital gain is 
not income.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
  Bob, nobodies stake in the movement is or was as high as the 
 Kaplains. Therefore you have no right to judge them. They gave 
more 
 than anyone, and all they wanted was one single promise to come 
true. 
 
 
 **
 
 When you go to Disneyland and get on a E-ticket ride (maybe E 
tickets 
 are passe, who knows), you stay on the ride til the end for 
complete 
 satisfaction. The Ks left -- too bad for them, but they were fools.
 
 The Ks could have been 200percenters, rich and enlightened, but 
like 
 stereotypical snotty rich kids,



snotty rich kids?

Hmmm.  I would have thought that that description would have applied 
to kids to inherited money.

Didn't these guys (or at least Earl) make all their money from 
scratch?




 they threw a tantrum, made a lot of 
 faces, and left with their baseball glove, instead of sticking 
around 
 and helping the movement to grow.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   ...but according to the poster, Gratzon didn't offer MMY 
   his income, he offered him his money or all of his stock 
in 
   Telegroup.  Both his money (and, yes, there may be a bit 
that 
   represented income in there) and his Telegroup stock were 
 assets 
   which he could donate to charity as he saw fit.
   
   I'm not an accountant but I don't think there is a restriction 
 on 
   how much of one's assets one can give a recognized charity 
 (giving 
   to individuals is an entirely different matter...that can 
 trigger a 
   gift tax if the annual gift is more than $11,000).  Yes, there 
 is a 
   limit on how much of that gift can be deducted against adjusted 
   gross income each year (I think you've got 6 years to deduct 
it, 
   each year a maximum of 20% of AGI), but I don't think there's a 
   limit to have much of your assets you can donate.
  
  ***
  
  The stock was Gratzon's from day one, as he founded Telegroup, so 
 the 
  gains in the stock price (from zip, which is what he paid) to 
  whatever value the stock had when he parted with it, would have 
 been 
  subject to capital gains tax, and the 50% limit on deductability 
  would have applied.
 



 ...but you said it was a 50% limit on income.  Capital gain is 
 not income.

**

A distinction without a difference:

Capital gains tax (CGT) is the tax that you pay on any capital gain 
you make and include on your annual income tax return. It is not a 
separate tax, merely a component of your income tax.

http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/content.asp?doc=/content/20427.htm




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   ...but according to the poster, Gratzon didn't offer MMY 
   his income, he offered him his money or all of his stock 
in 
   Telegroup.  Both his money (and, yes, there may be a bit 
that 
   represented income in there) and his Telegroup stock were 
 assets 
   which he could donate to charity as he saw fit.
   
   I'm not an accountant but I don't think there is a restriction 
 on 
   how much of one's assets one can give a recognized charity 
 (giving 
   to individuals is an entirely different matter...that can 
 trigger a 
   gift tax if the annual gift is more than $11,000).  Yes, there 
 is a 
   limit on how much of that gift can be deducted against adjusted 
   gross income each year (I think you've got 6 years to deduct 
it, 
   each year a maximum of 20% of AGI), but I don't think there's a 
   limit to have much of your assets you can donate.
  
  ***
  
  The stock was Gratzon's from day one, as he founded Telegroup, so 
 the 
  gains in the stock price (from zip, which is what he paid) to 
  whatever value the stock had when he parted with it, would have 
 been 
  subject to capital gains tax, and the 50% limit on deductability 
  would have applied.
 


 ...but you said it was a 50% limit on income.  Capital gain is 
 not income.
*

Yeah, it is:

One very important point to understand about capital gains income is 
that, to determine your normal tax bracket for capital gains, your 
capital gain income is added to your regular income and you use the 
total... not just the portion related to your earned income. Then 
you're able to use Schedule D to compute your tax using a preferred 
tax rate on your long-term capital gain.

http://www.fool.com/taxes/2001/taxes010105.htm




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[FairfieldLife] The Kaplan Money

2005-05-16 Thread suziezuzie

FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
   Bob, nobodies stake in the movement is or was as high as the
  Kaplains. Therefore you have no right to judge them. They gave
 more
  than anyone, and all they wanted was one single promise to come
 true.
  
 
  **
 
  When you go to Disneyland and get on a E-ticket ride (maybe E
 tickets
  are passe, who knows), you stay on the ride til the end for
 complete
  satisfaction. The Ks left -- too bad for them, but they were
fools.
 
  The Ks could have been 200percenters, rich and enlightened, but
 like
  stereotypical snotty rich kids, they threw a tantrum, made a lot
 of
  faces, and left with their baseball glove, instead of sticking
 around and helping the movement to grow.


 Bob, it sounds like you are saying that is the Kaplans had stayed
 longer then they definitely would have become enlightened (whatever
 that means). What about all the people who faithfully followed MMY
 until their deaths, did they achieve complete satisfaction, did
they
 all achieve a state of enlightenment? What are you talking about
 here?

 Rick Carlstrom

Rick, 

Bob isn't talking about anything that can be validated by any past events but 
is just 
making some pretty silly assumptions. By the way, he forgot to put in the 
word 'Jewish' in his list of epithets. 

If we consider the past as an indication to answer your question, then we would 
have 
to conclude that most likely, what would have happened to the Kaplans had they 
donated 
all their money, is that their money would have either had been lost, 
misappropriated 
or allocated to questionable TM programs. No one can predict if they would have 
become 
enlightened or simply would have left the movement much worse off than now. 

Mark  

 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

2005-05-16 Thread Robert Gimbel

--Well, as we all know, money seems to have a lot of power; those 
little peices of paper.
What my take is on this whole thing, is that, the Kaplans, as I 
recall, from my experience with them back in the Tofu days, is that 
they could invest or start-up anything they wished, as was posted
earlier, they must have inherited some big ($$.ching-a-ling.$$). 
Anyway,. there was always this competition thing, with the twins, I 
remember, also.
I remember a story, I read about Swami Bramananda, Guru Dev, when 
approached by a man, who wanted to give to Guru Dev, all of his 
riches. 
Instead, Guru Dev, said, no, what I want is in your  pocket!
And sure enough, what was in the man's pocket, was cocaine, which 
was destroying him and his family. 
When the man gave his offering to Guru Dev, the cocaine, he became 
realized, or much on his way.
When the Master, asks to give up something, that is so important to 
you; 
you ultimately must give in, and surrender,
if not in this life-time, then the next.
Because, we must lose everything, and be completely alone, depending 
on nothing, 
to break the bonds completely, of attatchment to form, to become  
realized. 
And,  if the Kaplans could give up everything, then...who knows, 

but, as Jesus said, a few years back:
Easier for a camel to glide through the eye of a needle...
Oh, well, live and learn.

- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
  On May 15, 2005, at 6:33 PM, bbrigante wrote:
  
   Yeah, and in that letter Earl K does not make any claim that 
the 
 TMO
   bilked him out of any money, just the fact that he gave 
millions 
 and
   felt ill-treated (I agree, he was ill-treated as a result of 
 Bevan's
   machinations in Boone designed to show Earl that Bevan was the 
 real
   boss there, but unfortunately, the Ks threw the baby out with 
the
   bathwater and quit TM as well as not putting up with crap like 
 Bevan
   dishes out). When people give money to non-profits and take 
the 
 tax
   write-off, they lose control over the money, by law. The Ks 
could
   have structured their donations so that they would have had 
more
   control, but they did not, so they can't complain if things 
did 
 not
   work out.
  
  Several parts of Earl's letter seem like reaction formations--
but 
 other 
  parts ring true. One of the most disturbing was the report of 
 Mahesh 
  lamenting his inability to milk the Kaplan's entire fortune. 
 
 
 (IF, thats a big IF) 
 He lamented it because if Maharishi had gottn it, Kaplan would 
have 
 gottn enlightened fully. As it is Kaplan has gone down the road of 
 attachment and fear. Kaplan is waking VERY slowly up to this 
 realization.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

  Bob, it sounds like you are saying that is the Kaplans had stayed 
  longer then they definitely would have become enlightened 
(whatever 
  that means). What about all the people who faithfully followed MMY 
  until their deaths, did they achieve complete satisfaction, did 
  they all achieve a state of enlightenment? What are you talking 
  about here?
 
 It sounds to me as if Bob has fully...uh...bought into
 the idea that you can buy your way to enlightenment.
 
 That's a popular idea in some spiritual organizations.
 You can usually tell them from the others by the size
 of their bank accounts, and by the number of people
 still talking about enlightenment rather than living it.

BTW, this really isn't a TM-specific rant.  The buy
your way to enlightenment thang in the TM movement
is after my time.  But I've seen the same thing in 
other organizations, and have a few opinons as to where
this mindset leads.  IMO, in *any* organization when
the main criterion for being a good student becomes
money-oriented, the organization is in serious trouble.

It seems to me that often in this discussion two paradigms 
have being accepted here as a given, and not challenged 
in any way.

The first is that how much money one has or is able to
make is somehow tied to their level of evolution or to
the support of nature for their endeavors.

The second seems to me to be that enlightenment can to
some extent be given to you by a teacher.  Do what
the teachers say, contribute to their attempts to further 
the dharma as they see it, and the gurus shall, through
their grace, assist you with your personal enlightenment.  
In other words, be nice to Scottie, and he will beam you up.

I know that a *lot* of people in the world of spirituality
believe strongly in both of these paradigms.  And that's
fine.  I'm just curious as to whether there are folks out 
there who have other ideas on the subject.

Unc






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Re: [FairfieldLife] More stirring reviews of Hagelin in What the Bleep






A case of Simon says. Quite 
namarupa.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  bbrigante 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 12:10 AM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] More stirring 
  reviews of Hagelin in "What the Bleep"
  Simon Singh in The Guardian:"And if you are still 
  considering going to see this film, then please bear in mind the 
  credibility and motives of the interviewees in the film. John Hagelin, one 
  of the PhD physicists, is from the Maharishi University of Management. 
  Take my advice and do not see this film. I repeat, do not see this film. I 
  repeat again, do not see this film. If you do, then you will leave the 
  cinema misinformed, £8 poorer and having wasted two hours of your 
  life.· Simon Singh has a PhD in particle physics from Cambridge 
  University. He is also the author of The Code Book and Big Bang, and 
  reviews What the Bleep Do We Know!? for Front Row on BBC Radio 4, 
  Thursday, 7.30pm"http://tinyurl.com/7dedpTo 
  subscribe, send a message 
  to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and 
  click 'Join This Group!' 
  


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Re: [FairfieldLife] More stirring reviews of Hagelin in What the Bleep






A case of Simon says. Quite 
namarupa.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  bbrigante 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 12:10 AM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] More stirring 
  reviews of Hagelin in "What the Bleep"
  Simon Singh in The Guardian:"And if you are still 
  considering going to see this film, then please bear in mind the 
  credibility and motives of the interviewees in the film. John Hagelin, one 
  of the PhD physicists, is from the Maharishi University of Management. 
  Take my advice and do not see this film. I repeat, do not see this film. I 
  repeat again, do not see this film. If you do, then you will leave the 
  cinema misinformed, £8 poorer and having wasted two hours of your 
  life.· Simon Singh has a PhD in particle physics from Cambridge 
  University. He is also the author of The Code Book and Big Bang, and 
  reviews What the Bleep Do We Know!? for Front Row on BBC Radio 4, 
  Thursday, 7.30pm"http://tinyurl.com/7dedpTo 
  subscribe, send a message 
  to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and 
  click 'Join This Group!' 
  


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money






 When you go to Disneyland and get on a E-ticket ride (maybe E 
tickets  are passe, who knows), you stay on the ride til the end for 
complete  satisfaction. The Ks left -- too bad for them, but they were 
fools.  The Ks could have been 200percenters, rich and 
enlightened, but like  stereotypical snotty rich kids, they threw a 
tantrum, made a lot of  faces, and left with their baseball glove, 
instead of sticking around  and helping the movement to grow. 
 Duh. I'm so stupid. Why didn't I think of that?Probably 
because you realized that "stick with oneride until the end" was part of a 
dogma that wascarefully *taught* to you, and you rejected dogma,not the 
ride. As a result, you're still on theride (although a different 
ride), while others are merely out walking the dogma, in circles. 
:-)UncNah, I 
probably didn't think of it because:
(a) I don't go to Disneyland to 
get enlightened,
(b) There's too many spies at 
Disneyland to be able to do anything truely fun,
(c) I never much liked Disney 
as a kid so don't find it appealing as an adult,
(d) I once was not let into 
Disneyland because I was a punk rocker,
(e) Once on a ride I finish it 
because getting off midway just is not a consideration,
(f) I prefer Six 
Flags,
(g) Enlightenment is not a ride 
that you can get on and off of,
(h) Enlightenment is for those 
who have left childish toys behind,
(i) I'd rather ride my fallen 
guru,
(j) Disneyland specifically is 
for children, 
(k) There's a lack of 
any real thrillers,
(l) I prefer 
drugs,
(m)I prefer 
sex,
(n)I prefer rock n 
roll,
(o) I could complete this silly 
excercise mid way, but I'm getting off the ride.

Which reminds me of smoking a joint on Mr. Toad 
with a friend named Tara as a kid. Halfway through a security guy stepped out 
from behind an effigy and told us to put it out because the figures were all 
made of paper. He was cool. Another time, we smoked a joint on the 
sky tram going to some ride. I've been to Disneyland probably about 30 
times in my life. Disney World I had always heard had twice the shit, but 
actually it doesn't, it merely has two exact achiral rides for each one of 
Disneylands, so as to cram more people in. (Not considering 
Epcot). 

Disney recently started making 
films that are Pg, to try to grab more of the market. Their original mandate has 
changed from kids entertainment to young adult. This shows that kids in general 
are growing up. And it also shows that at heart Disney is about making 
money. Once the original Disney passed, (RIP WD), it merely became a 
corporation just like any other devoid of a through-line of originality based on 
vision. 

Bob, do you take refuge in the 
Disney, the Rides, and the E Ticketholders?
To subscribe, send a message 
to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and 
click 'Join This Group!' 



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money






 When you go to Disneyland and get on a E-ticket ride (maybe E 
tickets  are passe, who knows), you stay on the ride til the end for 
complete  satisfaction. The Ks left -- too bad for them, but they were 
fools.  The Ks could have been 200percenters, rich and 
enlightened, but like  stereotypical snotty rich kids, they threw a 
tantrum, made a lot of  faces, and left with their baseball glove, 
instead of sticking around  and helping the movement to grow. 
 Duh. I'm so stupid. Why didn't I think of that?Probably 
because you realized that "stick with oneride until the end" was part of a 
dogma that wascarefully *taught* to you, and you rejected dogma,not the 
ride. As a result, you're still on theride (although a different 
ride), while others are merely out walking the dogma, in circles. 
:-)UncNah, I 
probably didn't think of it because:
(a) I don't go to Disneyland to 
get enlightened,
(b) There's too many spies at 
Disneyland to be able to do anything truely fun,
(c) I never much liked Disney 
as a kid so don't find it appealing as an adult,
(d) I once was not let into 
Disneyland because I was a punk rocker,
(e) Once on a ride I finish it 
because getting off midway just is not a consideration,
(f) I prefer Six 
Flags,
(g) Enlightenment is not a ride 
that you can get on and off of,
(h) Enlightenment is for those 
who have left childish toys behind,
(i) I'd rather ride my fallen 
guru,
(j) Disneyland specifically is 
for children, 
(k) There's a lack of 
any real thrillers,
(l) I prefer 
drugs,
(m)I prefer 
sex,
(n)I prefer rock n 
roll,
(o) I could complete this silly 
excercise mid way, but I'm getting off the ride.

Which reminds me of smoking a joint on Mr. Toad 
with a friend named Tara as a kid. Halfway through a security guy stepped out 
from behind an effigy and told us to put it out because the figures were all 
made of paper. He was cool. Another time, we smoked a joint on the 
sky tram going to some ride. I've been to Disneyland probably about 30 
times in my life. Disney World I had always heard had twice the shit, but 
actually it doesn't, it merely has two exact achiral rides for each one of 
Disneylands, so as to cram more people in. (Not considering 
Epcot). 

Disney recently started making 
films that are Pg, to try to grab more of the market. Their original mandate has 
changed from kids entertainment to young adult. This shows that kids in general 
are growing up. And it also shows that at heart Disney is about making 
money. Once the original Disney passed, (RIP WD), it merely became a 
corporation just like any other devoid of a through-line of originality based on 
vision. 

Bob, do you take refuge in the 
Disney, the Rides, and the E Ticketholders?
To subscribe, send a message 
to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and 
click 'Join This Group!' 



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[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [FairfieldLife] More stirring reviews of Hagelin in What the Bleep






A case of Simon says. Quite 
namarupa.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  bbrigante 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 12:10 AM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] More stirring 
  reviews of Hagelin in "What the Bleep"
  Simon Singh in The Guardian:"And if you are still 
  considering going to see this film, then please bear in mind the 
  credibility and motives of the interviewees in the film. John Hagelin, one 
  of the PhD physicists, is from the Maharishi University of Management. 
  Take my advice and do not see this film. I repeat, do not see this film. I 
  repeat again, do not see this film. If you do, then you will leave the 
  cinema misinformed, £8 poorer and having wasted two hours of your 
  life.· Simon Singh has a PhD in particle physics from Cambridge 
  University. He is also the author of The Code Book and Big Bang, and 
  reviews What the Bleep Do We Know!? for Front Row on BBC Radio 4, 
  Thursday, 7.30pm"http://tinyurl.com/7dedpTo 
  subscribe, send a message 
  to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and 
  click 'Join This Group!' 
  


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money






 When you go to Disneyland and get on a E-ticket ride (maybe E 
tickets  are passe, who knows), you stay on the ride til the end for 
complete  satisfaction. The Ks left -- too bad for them, but they were 
fools.  The Ks could have been 200percenters, rich and 
enlightened, but like  stereotypical snotty rich kids, they threw a 
tantrum, made a lot of  faces, and left with their baseball glove, 
instead of sticking around  and helping the movement to grow. 
 Duh. I'm so stupid. Why didn't I think of that?Probably 
because you realized that "stick with oneride until the end" was part of a 
dogma that wascarefully *taught* to you, and you rejected dogma,not the 
ride. As a result, you're still on theride (although a different 
ride), while others are merely out walking the dogma, in circles. 
:-)UncNah, I 
probably didn't think of it because:
(a) I don't go to Disneyland to 
get enlightened,
(b) There's too many spies at 
Disneyland to be able to do anything truely fun,
(c) I never much liked Disney 
as a kid so don't find it appealing as an adult,
(d) I once was not let into 
Disneyland because I was a punk rocker,
(e) Once on a ride I finish it 
because getting off midway just is not a consideration,
(f) I prefer Six 
Flags,
(g) Enlightenment is not a ride 
that you can get on and off of,
(h) Enlightenment is for those 
who have left childish toys behind,
(i) I'd rather ride my fallen 
guru,
(j) Disneyland specifically is 
for children, 
(k) There's a lack of 
any real thrillers,
(l) I prefer 
drugs,
(m)I prefer 
sex,
(n)I prefer rock n 
roll,
(o) I could complete this silly 
excercise mid way, but I'm getting off the ride.

Which reminds me of smoking a joint on Mr. Toad 
with a friend named Tara as a kid. Halfway through a security guy stepped out 
from behind an effigy and told us to put it out because the figures were all 
made of paper. He was cool. Another time, we smoked a joint on the 
sky tram going to some ride. I've been to Disneyland probably about 30 
times in my life. Disney World I had always heard had twice the shit, but 
actually it doesn't, it merely has two exact achiral rides for each one of 
Disneylands, so as to cram more people in. (Not considering 
Epcot). 

Disney recently started making 
films that are Pg, to try to grab more of the market. Their original mandate has 
changed from kids entertainment to young adult. This shows that kids in general 
are growing up. And it also shows that at heart Disney is about making 
money. Once the original Disney passed, (RIP WD), it merely became a 
corporation just like any other devoid of a through-line of originality based on 
vision. 

Bob, do you take refuge in the 
Disney, the Rides, and the E Ticketholders?
To subscribe, send a message 
to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and 
click 'Join This Group!' 



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[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money








The Camel and the Needle's Eye 

Robert Sheaffer


Many fundamentalists seek to explain away the obvious hostility to wealth in 
the saying attributed to Jesus, "It is easier for a camel to pass through the 
eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God" (Matthew 
19:24). Fundamentalists today constantly tell each other that the "eye of 
the needle" was a narrow gate into Jerusalem through which a camel could just 
barely squeeze, implying that even rich people can get into Heaven, provided 
that they walk a straight and narrow path. 
While believing this no doubt lowers the cognitive dissonance they suffer 
between the resentment against wealth that is integral to the Christian religion 
they revere, and their own desire to achieve, it is nonetheless a silly legend, 
like the alligators in the sewers. The Jerome Biblical 
Commentary is a standard reference work found in many libraries, 
written by Catholic scholars. Its commentary on Matthew 19:24 states 
bluntly, "the figure of the camel and the eye of the needle means exactly what 
is said; it does not refer to a cable or a small gate of Jerusalem." The 
Abingdon Interpreter's Bible is a major reference work compiled 
by Protestant scholars, and its analysis of this passage is in full agreement. 
Unfortunately for the fundamentalists, the concensus of New Testament scholars 
is that Matthew's passage barring rich people from heaven means exactly what it 
says. It remains to be seen how many of them are willing to give up all their 
wealth in accordance with the ideals they claim to profess. http://www.debunker.com/texts/needleye.html

This was a stupid account of a saying attributed to Jesus. 
The actual meaning which was tantric speaks about the Middle Path of Gimel based 
on the central pathway of the Otz Chiim, and the raising of ones sights to the 
third eye in Kether. Der. 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Robert 
  Gimbel 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 3:43 AM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's 
  money
  --Well, as we all know, money seems to have a lot of power; 
  those little peices of paper.What my take is on this whole thing, is 
  that, the Kaplans, as I recall, from my experience with them back in the 
  Tofu days, is that they could invest or start-up anything they wished, as 
  was posted earlier, they must have inherited some big 
  ($$.ching-a-ling.$$). Anyway,. there was always this competition thing, 
  with the twins, I remember, also.I remember a story, I read about 
  Swami Bramananda, Guru Dev, when approached by a man, who wanted to give 
  to Guru Dev, all of his riches. Instead, Guru Dev, said, no, what I 
  want is in your pocket!And sure enough, what was in the man's 
  pocket, was cocaine, which was destroying him and his family. When the 
  man gave his offering to Guru Dev, the cocaine, he became realized, or 
  much on his way.When the Master, asks to give up something, that is so 
  important to you; you ultimately must give in, and surrender,if 
  not in this life-time, then the next.Because, we must lose everything, and 
  be completely alone, depending on nothing, to break the bonds 
  completely, of attatchment to form, to become realized. 
  And, if the Kaplans could give up everything, then...who knows, 
  but, as Jesus said, a few years back:"Easier for a camel to glide 
  through the eye of a needle..."Oh, well, live and learn.- In 
  FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:On May 15, 2005, at 
  6:33 PM, bbrigante wrote: Yeah, and in that 
  letter Earl K does not make any claim that the  TMO  
   bilked him out of any money, just the fact that he gave millions 
   and   felt ill-treated (I agree, he was ill-treated 
  as a result of  Bevan's   machinations in Boone 
  designed to show Earl that Bevan was the  real   boss 
  there, but unfortunately, the Ks threw the baby out with the  
   bathwater and quit TM as well as not putting up with crap like  
  Bevan   dishes out). When people give money to non-profits and 
  take the  tax   write-off, they lose control over 
  the money, by law. The Ks could   have structured their 
  donations so that they would have had more   control, but 
  they did not, so they can't complain if things did  not 
work out.Several parts of Earl's letter 
  seem like reaction formations--but  other   parts ring 
  true. One of the most disturbing was the report of  Mahesh  
   lamenting his inability to milk the Kaplan's entire fortune.  
(IF, thats a big IF)  He lamented it because if 
  Maharishi had gottn it, Kaplan would have  gottn enlightened 
  fully. As it is Kaplan has gone down the road of  attachment and fear. 
  Kaplan is waking VERY slowly up to this  
  realization.To subscribe, send a message 
  to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to:

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money






Yahoo is having a nightmare at this 
early hour. Please forgive the recursive dreaming.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Llundrub 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 4:38 AM
  Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's 
  money
  
   When you go to Disneyland and get on a E-ticket ride (maybe E 
  tickets  are passe, who knows), you stay on the ride til the end for 
  complete  satisfaction. The Ks left -- too bad for them, but they were 
  fools.  The Ks could have been 200percenters, rich and 
  enlightened, but like  stereotypical snotty rich kids, they threw a 
  tantrum, made a lot of  faces, and left with their baseball glove, 
  instead of sticking around  and helping the movement to grow. 
   Duh. I'm so stupid. Why didn't I think of that?Probably 
  because you realized that "stick with oneride until the end" was part of a 
  dogma that wascarefully *taught* to you, and you rejected dogma,not 
  the ride. As a result, you're still on theride (although a different 
  ride), while others are merely out walking the dogma, in circles. 
  :-)UncNah, I 
  probably didn't think of it because:
  (a) I don't go to Disneyland 
  to get enlightened,
  (b) There's too many spies at 
  Disneyland to be able to do anything truely fun,
  (c) I never much liked Disney 
  as a kid so don't find it appealing as an adult,
  (d) I once was not let into 
  Disneyland because I was a punk rocker,
  (e) Once on a ride I finish 
  it because getting off midway just is not a consideration,
  (f) I prefer Six 
  Flags,
  (g) Enlightenment is not a 
  ride that you can get on and off of,
  (h) Enlightenment is for 
  those who have left childish toys behind,
  (i) I'd rather ride my fallen 
  guru,
  (j) Disneyland specifically 
  is for children, 
  (k) There's a lack 
  of any real thrillers,
  (l) I prefer 
  drugs,
  (m)I prefer 
  sex,
  (n)I prefer rock n 
  roll,
  (o) I could complete this 
  silly excercise mid way, but I'm getting off the ride.
  
  Which reminds me of smoking a joint on Mr. Toad 
  with a friend named Tara as a kid. Halfway through a security guy stepped out 
  from behind an effigy and told us to put it out because the figures were all 
  made of paper. He was cool. Another time, we smoked a joint on the 
  sky tram going to some ride. I've been to Disneyland probably about 30 
  times in my life. Disney World I had always heard had twice the shit, but 
  actually it doesn't, it merely has two exact achiral rides for each one of 
  Disneylands, so as to cram more people in. (Not considering 
  Epcot). 
  
  Disney recently started 
  making films that are Pg, to try to grab more of the market. Their original 
  mandate has changed from kids entertainment to young adult. This shows that 
  kids in general are growing up. And it also shows that at heart Disney is 
  about making money. Once the original Disney passed, (RIP WD), it merely 
  became a corporation just like any other devoid of a through-line of 
  originality based on vision. 
  
  Bob, do you take refuge in 
  the Disney, the Rides, and the E Ticketholders?
  To subscribe, send a message 
  to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and 
  click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message 
  to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and 
  click 'Join This Group!' 
  


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

  Duh. I'm so stupid. Why didn't I think of that?
 
 Probably because you realized that stick with one
 ride until the end was part of a dogma that was
 carefully *taught* to you, and you rejected dogma,
 not the ride.  As a result, you're still on the
 ride (although a different ride), while others are 
 merely out walking the dogma, in circles.  :-)
 
 Nah, I probably didn't think of it because:
 (a) I don't go to Disneyland to get enlightened,

You may have missed out.  I worked with a spiritual 
teacher who took his students to Disneyland often. 
http://ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm13.html

 (b) There's too many spies at Disneyland to be able to do 
 anything truely fun,

IMO, there is never too much anything anywhere to 
prohibit having fun.  :-)

 (g) Enlightenment is not a ride that you can get on and off of,

True in the sense that it is always already present. 

 (h) Enlightenment is for those who have left childish toys behind,

Can't buy this one.  Enlightenment is for everyone, and
many people rather enjoy not having lost in adulthood
the ability to have fun that they had as children.

 (j) Disneyland specifically is for children, 

Only because too many adults are too busy being adults
to remember how to have fun.  Kids drag their parents
to Disneyland because they pity them.

Unc






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money


--- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip

 
 You may have missed out.  I worked with a spiritual 
 teacher who took his students to Disneyland often. 
 http://ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm13.html

Unc, how have you come to terms (if that's the right
term) with your powerful experiences with Rama and
his rather bizarre death and less than enlightened
behavior at times?
-Peter







Discover Yahoo! 
Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out! 
http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money


On May 15, 2005, at 9:01 PM, bbrigante wrote:

 a true testament to the quality of life in
 the Kaliyuga.

More accurately, a testament to the TMO and the TM-Sidhi program.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money


On May 15, 2005, at 10:01 PM, Robert Gimbel wrote:

 Secondly, I have always felt, that since Maharishi, is in Unity
 Consciousness, he always gets a clear sense of what to do,
 or spontaneous right action, in the moment; and if he said
 something, and latter changes his mind about it, I suppose, there
 was good reason.

Has MMY ever claimed this or recalled the experience? I don't think so. 
This is a projection of the students wishful thinking and the need to 
place someone on a pedestal. This is the greatest fallacy of the TMO 
IMO, that Mahesh is enlightened. It causes many of the problems like 
similar groups like Rajneesh, etc.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money


On May 15, 2005, at 10:01 PM, Robert Gimbel wrote:

 Do you really think for one nano-second,
 that Guru Dev, Swami Saraswati, is not wonderously impressed,
 by Mahesh's devotion,
  to opening this knowledge,
 to the whole world.

I think he would be divinely enraged at M. for his actions--which are 
so clearly a departure from anything he ever intended!



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The future and Maharishi


On May 15, 2005, at 11:17 PM, Llundrub wrote:

Traditionally enlightened Swamis had to comment on the Gita, Brahma Sutras, and Yoga Sutras.

This is especially true of the Badarayana sutras (i.e. the Brahma sutras)--you would not be considered a realized master and authentic without doing a comment on it. That presupposes you also commented on the primary upanishads.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money


On May 16, 2005, at 12:18 AM, Rick wrote:

 Bob, it sounds like you are saying that is the Kaplans had stayed
 longer then they definitely would have become enlightened (whatever
 that means).

It also conveys an interesting attitude:

enlightenment has a price tag on it.



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money


On May 16, 2005, at 2:44 AM, easyone200 wrote:

 Boba-thumper
 You thump that gita with the best of 'em.

Naw, he forgot the praise lord Krishna part at the end.

Yay Guru Dev. Ra ra ra.



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[FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

  You may have missed out.  I worked with a spiritual 
  teacher who took his students to Disneyland often. 
  http://ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm13.html
 
 Unc, how have you come to terms (if that's the right
 term) with your powerful experiences with Rama and
 his rather bizarre death and less than enlightened
 behavior at times?
 -Peter

In two words, Shit happens.

I had already left his study a couple of years before
he died, and thus wasn't as affected by it as a lot of
folks who hung in there to the end.  I don't really know 
anything about the whys of it all; it's a koan.  I spent
some time pondered it in one of the stories I wrote, at: 
http://ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm53.html

As I suggested in a recent post, for many reasons I do 
not believe in the idea that the enlightened are perfect
and don't make mistakes.  I don't think they're any 
different than anyone else, except on the level of subjec-
tive realization.  So I have no tendency to suggest that
odd or questionable behavior means that someone wasn't
enlightened.  All it suggests to me is that they indulge
in odd or questionable behavior.  So did many teachers
whom history regards as enlightened.  Big deal.

I'm also not a person who is terribly impressed by the
ability to perform siddhis, and wasn't when I met the Rama
guy.  I got to see and experience some neat stuff, and
enjoyed it, but I did not then and do not now make any
link between being able to, say, levitate and turn invisible
and do fascinating things with light and that person's state
of consciousness.  The main thing that impressed me about 
the guy was his ability to meditate.  When you sat with him 
in the early days, it was just silence -- pure samadhi.  It 
was *impossible* to have a thought.  All the other stuff 
was bells and whistles, IMO.

To be honest, not all of his students felt as I did.  They
definitely consider the enlightened perfect by definition,
so his suicide fucked with their heads Big-Time.  If you
believe that your teacher is enlightened and that the enlight-
ened are by definition perfect, then you have to jump through
a lot of mental hoops to justify suicide.  I'm not much in
touch with them, so I can't tell you how they've come to
terms with things.

For me, it was a wild and wacky Mister Toad ride that I shall
always be thankful for but don't spend a lot of time missing
or even thinking about.  Right here and now is too wild and 
wacky and wonderful to leave much time for that.

Unc







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money


On May 16, 2005, at 5:46 AM, Llundrub wrote:

his was  a stupid account of a saying attributed to Jesus. The actual meaning which was tantric speaks about the Middle Path of Gimel based on the central pathway of the Otz Chiim, and the raising of ones sights to the third eye in Kether. Der.

Bingo: the amrita-nadi

[FairfieldLife] Re: TANTRA - A SCIENCE FOR ALL RELIGIONS

2005-05-16 Thread Alex Stanley

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tantrayudha [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
 Om is Ankh, with the same consonants as Nak, the serpent, 
 which is Naga in India, and traditionally appears on all
 kosher Siva Lingums,

Kosher Siva Lingums? I'll assume this involves a Mohel instead of a
Rabbi.

Alex







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[FairfieldLife] Re: who is right ?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 
 RJ-Vaj group 
 
 Jim-anon-Bob group
 
 MMY /TMO group [ whatever that means ]
 
 nobody 
 
 all are correct.
 
 5 options, hurry up place your bets.
 
 
 [[ prize is big E ]]


The Off Worlders are Right.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: More stirring reviews of Hagelin in What the Bleep

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 Simon Singh in The Guardian:
 
 And if you are still considering going to see this film, then 
please 
 bear in mind the credibility and motives of the interviewees in 
the 
 film. John Hagelin, one of the PhD physicists, is from the 
Maharishi 
 University of Management. Take my advice and do not see this film. 
I 
 repeat, do not see this film. I repeat again, do not see this 
film. If 
 you do, then you will leave the cinema misinformed, £8 poorer and 
 having wasted two hours of your life.
 · Simon Singh has a PhD in particle physics from Cambridge 
University. 
 He is also the author of The Code Book and Big Bang, and reviews 
What 
 the Bleep Do We Know!? for Front Row on BBC Radio 4, Thursday, 
7.30pm
 
 
 http://tinyurl.com/7dedp


It is an awful film.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Warning to all off world beings!

Stay on the leeward side of the moon is my advice.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2005/s2437.htm




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TANTRA - A SCIENCE FOR ALL RELIGIONS


On May 16, 2005, at 7:56 AM, Alex Stanley wrote:

 Kosher Siva Lingums? I'll assume this involves a Mohel instead of a
 Rabbi.

The only difference is they are circumcised with a small rock hammer.



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[FairfieldLife] Kaplan's money and Jesus

The old woman, who was alone in the world gave Jesus her last couple 
of dollars, and Jesus said that this was greater than all the 
donations given to him by all the wealthy. (or sumpthin' like that)





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[FairfieldLife] Jesus is Everywhere

I forgot.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 --- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 snip
 
  
  You may have missed out.  I worked with a spiritual 
  teacher who took his students to Disneyland often. 
  http://ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm13.html
 
 Unc, how have you come to terms (if that's the right
 term) with your powerful experiences with Rama and
 his rather bizarre death and less than enlightened
 behavior at times?
 -Peter


What do you mean?




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

A mini lesson in Buddhism:

Therefore you have no right to judge them. They gave more than 
anyone, and all they wanted was one single promise to come true.

1. You are judging them (positively perhaps, but a judgment 
nonetheless).
2. What was it they gave, according to the Buddha? (think 'no' 
this, 'no' that)





--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 Bob, nobodies stake in the movement is or was as high as the 
Kaplains. Therefore you have no right to judge them. They gave more 
than anyone, and all they wanted was one single promise to come 
true. 
 
 The Truth
 
  
 
 April 16, 2004
 
  
 
 Dear residents of Fairfield, Heavenly Mountain, the Spiritual 
Center, and 
 
 whomever else may want to read this letter:
 
  
 
 Over the past several years my brother, his family and I have been 
attacked 
 
 verbally, emotionally, spiritually and financially for leaving the 
TM 
 
 movement.  I have not said anything during this time, not wanting 
to fight 
 
 with anyone. However, I have now come to realize, for the sake of 
those who
 
 want to listen and for my sake as well, to clear my conscious of 
all that I
 
 have learned, heard and known, that I must share the knowledge 
that has 
 
 come to me.  We should all be free to listen to our hearts, to 
follow our 
 
 own inner voice and not to be subject to a movement and a so-
called 
 
 spiritual master who rules through lies, fear and deceit.
 
  
 
 This letter is really for those of you who have been feeling that 
something 
 
 is wrong.  Remember in the Matrix when Trinity told Neo they had 
been looking 
 
 for him because they knew that he could just feel there was 
something missing,
 
 something out of order but he just couldn't figure out what.  
Well, that is
 
 how it started to be for me and TM.  I knew something was wrong.  
I remembered
 
 that when I started I was promised enlightenment in 5-7 years.  I 
remember in
 
 1975 Maharishi promising that now that there were all these 
governors that 
 
 there would be world peace.  I remember in 1977 at the end of the 
siddhis
 
 course Maharishi saying that is was just the hard knots of stress 
in the 
 
 environment that needed to be cracked before we all started to fly 
and that 
 
 he would call us back in a few years when we were ready to take 
off.  I 
 
 remember in the early 90's, Maharishi told my brother that if we 
built the
 
 spiritual center that he would fill it up with 1000 Purusha and 
1000 Mother
 
 Divine.  He said as soon as we finished the buildings and he moved 
Purusha
 
 and Mother Divine there that people would start to fly, they would 
go into
 
 enlightenment. He also told me that if I gave him enough money for 
his India
 
 project that he would create a 10,000 group that would bring world 
peace right
 
 away.
 
  
 
 For 30 years I listened and responded and devotedly donated more 
money to 
 
 Maharishi's project than anyone ever had.  I had this deep 
yearning to try to
 
 help mankind.  I wanted to help create a peaceful world and I 
wanted to gain 
 
 my own inner enlightenment.  I never wanted any public attention 
and for many
 
 years no one even knew I was the leading donor for the movement.
 
  
 
 After I had given all this money and waited patiently for the 
results that
 
 Maharishi had promised, I started to wake up.  I started to 
realize that I
 
 had been misled.  WE ALL HAD!  Where are the 7000 pundits 
Maharishi had 
 
 raised hundreds of millions of dollars for and had repeatedly 
promised to
 
 bring to the U.S.?  Where is the world peace he promised us all 
those years.
 
 Where is there one person who has gotten enlightened in the TM 
movement?  
 
 Maharishi said eve a person in Cosmic Consciousness can perform 
the siddhis 
 
 successfully and fly.  In unity consciousness the prescriptions of 
Patanjali
 
 are not needed to get the results, they just happen.  Please show 
me one or
 
 two people who can fly, who can perform the siddhis successfully, 
who are 
 
 truly enlightened and I will admit that I am wrong.  But really, 
no one in
 
 the TM movement can do so. The true believers in the TM movement 
actually 
 
 become incensed when you ask them to give you a concrete 
demonstration of 
 
 their abilities.  The truth that I have come to realize is that 
the 
 
 enlightenment that some of these TM people think they have is just 
a total 
 
 delusion.  There is no real substantive proof because there is no 
valid 
 
 spiritual experience.  The TM experience is an illusory 
experience, a sort
 
 of dream state brought about by using a technique that traps one 
in one's
 
 own mind.
 
  
 
 Since I retired three years ago I have been researching spiritual 
techniques.
 
 I have spoken with a number of holy men from various traditions.  
I have 
 
 traveled to India and met with enlightened Swamis and visited many 
of the 
 
 sacred and holy cities.  I have spoken with pundits who were in 
charge of 
 
 the

[FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 --- off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
   On May 15, 2005, at 6:33 PM, bbrigante wrote:
   
Yeah, and in that letter Earl K does not make
  any claim that the 
  TMO
bilked him out of any money, just the fact that
  he gave millions 
  and
felt ill-treated (I agree, he was ill-treated as
  a result of 
  Bevan's
machinations in Boone designed to show Earl that
  Bevan was the 
  real
boss there, but unfortunately, the Ks threw the
  baby out with the
bathwater and quit TM as well as not putting up
  with crap like 
  Bevan
dishes out). When people give money to
  non-profits and take the 
  tax
write-off, they lose control over the money, by
  law. The Ks could
have structured their donations so that they
  would have had more
control, but they did not, so they can't
  complain if things did 
  not
work out.
   
   Several parts of Earl's letter seem like reaction
  formations--but 
  other 
   parts ring true. One of the most disturbing was
  the report of 
  Mahesh 
   lamenting his inability to milk the Kaplan's
  entire fortune. 
  
  
  (IF, thats a big IF) 
  He lamented it because if Maharishi had gottn it,
  Kaplan would have 
  gottn enlightened fully. As it is Kaplan has gone
  down the road of 
  attachment and fear. Kaplan is waking VERY slowly up
  to this 
  realization.
 
 Off, you seem to have the inside track on reality.
 Must be nice to know such things, eh?


Its alright I suppose. 
But don't forget it's not 'reality' , it is a game. It is the 
repetition of thousands of years of habitual human behaviour.




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

- Original Message -
From:
TurquoiseB
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 5:30 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's
money

Duh. I'm so stupid. Why didn't I think of that?
Probably because you realized that "stick with one ride until
the end" was part of a dogma that was carefully *taught* to you, and
you rejected dogma, not the ride. As a result, you're still on
the ride (although a different ride), while others are merely
out walking the dogma, in circles. :-) Nah, I
probably didn't think of it because: (a) I don't go to Disneyland to
get enlightened,You may have missed out. I worked with a
spiritual teacher who took his students to Disneyland often. http://ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm13.html

---There's perhaps better
ways to meet the bardo visions. Like spending time serving in poor areas,
amongst the sick at the hospice, or going to Indian ceremonies where people
wear ugly masks and screetch and pound things. Or simply by going to a
protector ritual and feeling ones own fear due to attachment and aversion
reflected back into ones own mind stream 100%. Disneyland? Nah. For
people who expect a Disney Bardo. But I get the idea.

(b) There's too many spies at Disneyland to be able to do
anything truely fun,IMO, there is never too much anything
anywhere to prohibit having fun. :-)

--Well, I guess I later contradicted
this when I spoke about a couple isolated experiences. Oh yeah, I once went to
Disneyland with two Sidhas. While there we decided to do program. Ever done
program at Disneyland? Where did you sit?
(g) Enlightenment is not a ride that you can get on and off
of,True in the sense that it is always already present.

---Also true in the sense
that once you set foot on the path it becomes like poison melting your
obscurations away, and you can never find anything toreplace them back
with again.
(h) Enlightenment is for those who have left childish toys
behind,Can't buy this one. Enlightenment is for everyone,
andmany people rather enjoy not having lost in adulthoodthe ability to
have fun that they had as children.

-Adult have fun too, even
better fun than kids. The idea that only kids have fun is dull.
(j) Disneyland specifically is for children, Only
because too many adults are too busy being adultsto remember how to have
fun. Kids drag their parentsto Disneyland because they pity
them.

--Well, that is sad. I never
had that thought for a second. But my Dad knew how to have fun, which is why
he was a puppet maker, chef, architect, football player, musician, and soo on.
My family are all craftspeople who included my Mom who designed clothes and
Rose Bowl Parade floats, and so on. That creativity is fun in the original
sense. Brag brag brag, yada yada yada.
On another note, my favorite thing that I
ever remember as a kid is when my dads T-shirts got old and full of holes and
he would let all us kids climb all over him and rip the T-shirts to shreds.
That was fun.
UncTo subscribe, send a
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money






Has MMY ever claimed this or recalled the experience? I don't 
think so. This is a projection of the students wishful thinking and the need 
to place someone on a pedestal. This is the greatest fallacy of the TMO 
IMO, that Mahesh is enlightened. It causes many of the problems like 
similar groups like Rajneesh, etc.Maharishi Shobita 
lingam.


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money






I think he would be divinely enraged at M. for his 
actions--which are so clearly a departure from anything he ever 
intended!If Maharishi hadn't 
poisoned him he would have died of a heart attack. 



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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

Oh, that Rama. Bwahahahaha,
enlightened, yeah, right...

- Original Message -
From:
TurquoiseB
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 6:38 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's
money
You may have missed out. I worked with a
spiritual teacher who took his students to Disneyland often.
http://ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm13.html
Unc, how have you "come to terms (if that's the right term)"
with your powerful experiences with Rama and his rather bizarre death
and less than "enlightened" behavior at times?
-PeterIn two words, "Shit happens."I had already left his
study a couple of years beforehe died, and thus wasn't as affected by it
as a lot offolks who hung in there to the end. I don't really know
anything about the "whys" of it all; it's a koan. I spentsome
time pondered it in one of the stories I wrote, at: http://ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm53.htmlAs
I suggested in a recent post, for many reasons I do not believe in the
idea that the enlightened are perfectand don't make mistakes. I
don't think they're any different than anyone else, except on the level of
subjec-tive realization. So I have no tendency to suggest
thatodd or questionable behavior means that someone
wasn'tenlightened. All it suggests to me is that they indulgein
odd or questionable behavior. So did many teacherswhom history
regards as enlightened. Big deal.I'm also not a person who is
terribly impressed by theability to perform siddhis, and wasn't when I met
the Ramaguy. I got to see and experience some neat stuff,
andenjoyed it, but I did not then and do not now make anylink between
being able to, say, levitate and turn invisibleand do fascinating things
with light and that person's stateof consciousness. The main thing
that impressed me about the guy was his ability to meditate. When
you sat with him in the early days, it was just silence -- pure
samadhi. It was *impossible* to have a thought. All the other
stuff was bells and whistles, IMO.To be honest, not all of his
students felt as I did. Theydefinitely consider the enlightened
perfect by definition,so his suicide fucked with their heads
Big-Time. If youbelieve that your teacher is enlightened and that
the enlight-ened are by definition perfect, then you have to jump
througha lot of mental hoops to justify suicide. I'm not much
intouch with them, so I can't tell you how they've come toterms with
things.For me, it was a wild and wacky Mister Toad ride that I
shallalways be thankful for but don't spend a lot of time missingor
even thinking about. Right here and now is too wild and wacky and
wonderful to leave much time for
that.UncTo subscribe, send a
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: TANTRA - A SCIENCE FOR ALL RELIGIONS






But drinking urine isn't very 
Kosher.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Alex Stanley 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 6:56 AM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: TANTRA - A 
  SCIENCE FOR ALL RELIGIONS
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
  tantrayudha [EMAIL PROTECTED]...wrote: Om is Ankh, 
  with the same consonants as Nak, the serpent,  which is Naga in India, 
  and traditionally appears on all kosher Siva Lingums,Kosher 
  Siva Lingums? I'll assume this involves a Mohel instead of 
  aRabbi.AlexTo subscribe, 
  send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or 
  go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and 
  click 'Join This Group!' 
  


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Jesus is Everywhere






Dud, if you're on dope, can I git 
some? And if you're not, then what happened? Ah nevermind, again I'm thinking. 
Thanks for alllowing me to remain in the nonconceptual framework. 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  off_world_beings 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 7:13 AM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Jesus is 
  Everywhere
  I forgot.To subscribe, send a 
  message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or 
  go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and 
  click 'Join This Group!' 
  


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

Oh yeah, in some ways Rama is the
avatara or John the Baptist of the TMO Raaj Raam. Showing through his life the
source, course, and goal of the TMO Raaj.

- Original Message -
From:
TurquoiseB
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

I know MMY is enlightened because Rajneesh said he
was.

--- Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 Has MMY ever claimed this or recalled the
 experience? I don't think so. 
 This is a projection of the students wishful
 thinking and the need to 
 place someone on a pedestal. This is the greatest
 fallacy of the TMO 
 IMO, that Mahesh is enlightened. It causes many of
 the problems like 
 similar groups like Rajneesh, etc.
 
 Maharishi Shobita lingam.

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Oh, that Rama. Bwahahahaha, enlightened, yeah, right...

Just for the record, I never suggested he was.

Unlike some, I don't claim to know such things...  :-)

Unc






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

Thanks for the response Unc. I've enjoyed reading
about your experiences with him. Quite amazing stuff.
-Peter

--- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   You may have missed out.  I worked with a
 spiritual 
   teacher who took his students to Disneyland
 often. 
   http://ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm13.html
  
  Unc, how have you come to terms (if that's the
 right
  term) with your powerful experiences with Rama
 and
  his rather bizarre death and less than
 enlightened
  behavior at times?
  -Peter
 
 In two words, Shit happens.
 
 I had already left his study a couple of years
 before
 he died, and thus wasn't as affected by it as a lot
 of
 folks who hung in there to the end.  I don't really
 know 
 anything about the whys of it all; it's a koan.  I
 spent
 some time pondered it in one of the stories I wrote,
 at: 
 http://ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm53.html
 
 As I suggested in a recent post, for many reasons I
 do 
 not believe in the idea that the enlightened are
 perfect
 and don't make mistakes.  I don't think they're any 
 different than anyone else, except on the level of
 subjec-
 tive realization.  So I have no tendency to suggest
 that
 odd or questionable behavior means that someone
 wasn't
 enlightened.  All it suggests to me is that they
 indulge
 in odd or questionable behavior.  So did many
 teachers
 whom history regards as enlightened.  Big deal.
 
 I'm also not a person who is terribly impressed by
 the
 ability to perform siddhis, and wasn't when I met
 the Rama
 guy.  I got to see and experience some neat stuff,
 and
 enjoyed it, but I did not then and do not now make
 any
 link between being able to, say, levitate and turn
 invisible
 and do fascinating things with light and that
 person's state
 of consciousness.  The main thing that impressed me
 about 
 the guy was his ability to meditate.  When you sat
 with him 
 in the early days, it was just silence -- pure
 samadhi.  It 
 was *impossible* to have a thought.  All the other
 stuff 
 was bells and whistles, IMO.
 
 To be honest, not all of his students felt as I did.
  They
 definitely consider the enlightened perfect by
 definition,
 so his suicide fucked with their heads Big-Time.  If
 you
 believe that your teacher is enlightened and that
 the enlight-
 ened are by definition perfect, then you have to
 jump through
 a lot of mental hoops to justify suicide.  I'm not
 much in
 touch with them, so I can't tell you how they've
 come to
 terms with things.
 
 For me, it was a wild and wacky Mister Toad ride
 that I shall
 always be thankful for but don't spend a lot of time
 missing
 or even thinking about.  Right here and now is too
 wild and 
 wacky and wonderful to leave much time for that.
 
 Unc
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money








  A mini lesson in Buddhism:

  
  gak.
  Therefore you have no right to judge them. They gave 
  more than anyone, and all they wanted was one single promise to come 
  true.1. You are judging them (positively perhaps, but a 
  judgment nonetheless).
  

  -Nah, I just said what they said. They judged them and I allowed 
  their words of judgementto speak for them.
  
  
  
  2. What was it they gave, according to the Buddha? (think 'no' 
  this, 'no' that)
  

  
  
  --Show me where 
  Buddha says, "(think 'no' this, 'no' 
  that)"
  -Anyone ever let you in on the way to debate? First, 
  say what you mean, and if you have no real content to add then wait to add 
  something until you do. This rule of thumb might make your life more 
  effective. Of course, what real content is and what isn't is up to you as the 
  debater, but if everyones response is to back away from you like from a mad 
  dog then you will sense how they see you. 
  
  I'll give you a teaching of the 
  Buddha:

  Everything is the mudra or 
  seal of the Guru. How you act or react is merely a reflection of your 
  spontaneous realization. 
  
  Om Ah Hung.
  


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money






I saw him once.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  TurquoiseB 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:24 AM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's 
  money
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
  "Llundrub" [EMAIL PROTECTED]... 
  wrote: Oh, that Rama. Bwahahahaha, enlightened, yeah, 
  right...Just for the record, I never suggested he was.Unlike 
  some, I don't claim to know such things... 
  :-)UncTo subscribe, send a 
  message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or 
  go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and 
  click 'Join This Group!' 
  


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money


On May 16, 2005, at 9:25 AM, Peter Sutphen wrote:

 I know MMY is enlightened because Rajneesh said he
 was.

Yeah but M. stated that Rajneesh was NOT, so that answers that question.



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[FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

2005-05-16 Thread Alex Stanley

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

   Om Ah Hung.

Dare I ask what this mantra is for?

Alex




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money






Body speech mind of the Buddha. The 
three modes of Buddhadharma.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Alex Stanley 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:57 AM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's 
  money
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
  "Llundrub" [EMAIL PROTECTED]...wrote: 
  Om Ah Hung.Dare I ask what this mantra is 
  for?AlexTo subscribe, send a message 
  to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or 
  go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and 
  click 'Join This Group!' 
  


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

Who is this Rama guy? Was he an Indian or a Westerner. What did he 
look like?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Thanks for the response Unc. I've enjoyed reading
 about your experiences with him. Quite amazing stuff.
 -Peter
 
 --- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You may have missed out.  I worked with a
  spiritual 
teacher who took his students to Disneyland
  often. 
http://ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm13.html
   
   Unc, how have you come to terms (if that's the
  right
   term) with your powerful experiences with Rama
  and
   his rather bizarre death and less than
  enlightened
   behavior at times?
   -Peter
  
  In two words, Shit happens.
  
  I had already left his study a couple of years
  before
  he died, and thus wasn't as affected by it as a lot
  of
  folks who hung in there to the end.  I don't really
  know 
  anything about the whys of it all; it's a koan.  I
  spent
  some time pondered it in one of the stories I wrote,
  at: 
  http://ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm53.html
  
  As I suggested in a recent post, for many reasons I
  do 
  not believe in the idea that the enlightened are
  perfect
  and don't make mistakes.  I don't think they're any 
  different than anyone else, except on the level of
  subjec-
  tive realization.  So I have no tendency to suggest
  that
  odd or questionable behavior means that someone
  wasn't
  enlightened.  All it suggests to me is that they
  indulge
  in odd or questionable behavior.  So did many
  teachers
  whom history regards as enlightened.  Big deal.
  
  I'm also not a person who is terribly impressed by
  the
  ability to perform siddhis, and wasn't when I met
  the Rama
  guy.  I got to see and experience some neat stuff,
  and
  enjoyed it, but I did not then and do not now make
  any
  link between being able to, say, levitate and turn
  invisible
  and do fascinating things with light and that
  person's state
  of consciousness.  The main thing that impressed me
  about 
  the guy was his ability to meditate.  When you sat
  with him 
  in the early days, it was just silence -- pure
  samadhi.  It 
  was *impossible* to have a thought.  All the other
  stuff 
  was bells and whistles, IMO.
  
  To be honest, not all of his students felt as I did.
   They
  definitely consider the enlightened perfect by
  definition,
  so his suicide fucked with their heads Big-Time.  If
  you
  believe that your teacher is enlightened and that
  the enlight-
  ened are by definition perfect, then you have to
  jump through
  a lot of mental hoops to justify suicide.  I'm not
  much in
  touch with them, so I can't tell you how they've
  come to
  terms with things.
  
  For me, it was a wild and wacky Mister Toad ride
  that I shall
  always be thankful for but don't spend a lot of time
  missing
  or even thinking about.  Right here and now is too
  wild and 
  wacky and wonderful to leave much time for that.
  
  Unc
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  To subscribe, send a message to:
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  Or go to: 
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
  and click 'Join This Group!' 
  Yahoo! Groups Links
  
  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
   
  
  
  
 
 
   
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[FairfieldLife] A mini lesson in Buddhism

(ha ha made you look)

A mini lesson in Buddhism:

   2. What was it they gave, according to the Buddha? (think 'no' 
   this, 'no' that)

   --Show me where Buddha says, (think 'no' 
   this, 'no' that)

Try that one again Llundrub. Think before you leap.

 This rule of thumb might make your life more effective. Of 
course, what real content is and what isn't is up to you as the 
debater, but if everyones response is to back away from you like 
from a mad dog then you will sense how they see you. 

You mean like when everyone doesn't bother to read your long self 
agrandizing rambling monologues.

 
   I'll give you a teaching of the Buddha:
   Everything is the mudra or seal of the Guru. How you act or 
react is merely a reflection of your spontaneous realization. 

Thus your non-specific disjointed post. I see.
 
 
   Om Ah Hung.

Its hanging good  thanks.




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[FairfieldLife] Zen Master Rama; was Kaplans $

http://www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Rama/rama-appendix-1.html


On May 16, 2005, at 10:48 AM, off_world_beings wrote:

 Who is this Rama guy? Was he an Indian or a Westerner. What did he
 look like?

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Thanks for the response Unc. I've enjoyed reading
 about your experiences with him. Quite amazing stuff.
 -Peter

 --- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 You may have missed out.  I worked with a
 spiritual
 teacher who took his students to Disneyland
 often.
 http://ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm13.html

 Unc, how have you come to terms (if that's the
 right
 term) with your powerful experiences with Rama
 and
 his rather bizarre death and less than
 enlightened
 behavior at times?
 -Peter

 In two words, Shit happens.

 I had already left his study a couple of years
 before
 he died, and thus wasn't as affected by it as a lot
 of
 folks who hung in there to the end.  I don't really
 know
 anything about the whys of it all; it's a koan.  I
 spent
 some time pondered it in one of the stories I wrote,
 at:
 http://ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/rtm53.html

 As I suggested in a recent post, for many reasons I
 do
 not believe in the idea that the enlightened are
 perfect
 and don't make mistakes.  I don't think they're any
 different than anyone else, except on the level of
 subjec-
 tive realization.  So I have no tendency to suggest
 that
 odd or questionable behavior means that someone
 wasn't
 enlightened.  All it suggests to me is that they
 indulge
 in odd or questionable behavior.  So did many
 teachers
 whom history regards as enlightened.  Big deal.

 I'm also not a person who is terribly impressed by
 the
 ability to perform siddhis, and wasn't when I met
 the Rama
 guy.  I got to see and experience some neat stuff,
 and
 enjoyed it, but I did not then and do not now make
 any
 link between being able to, say, levitate and turn
 invisible
 and do fascinating things with light and that
 person's state
 of consciousness.  The main thing that impressed me
 about
 the guy was his ability to meditate.  When you sat
 with him
 in the early days, it was just silence -- pure
 samadhi.  It
 was *impossible* to have a thought.  All the other
 stuff
 was bells and whistles, IMO.

 To be honest, not all of his students felt as I did.
  They
 definitely consider the enlightened perfect by
 definition,
 so his suicide fucked with their heads Big-Time.  If
 you
 believe that your teacher is enlightened and that
 the enlight-
 ened are by definition perfect, then you have to
 jump through
 a lot of mental hoops to justify suicide.  I'm not
 much in
 touch with them, so I can't tell you how they've
 come to
 terms with things.

 For me, it was a wild and wacky Mister Toad ride
 that I shall
 always be thankful for but don't spend a lot of time
 missing
 or even thinking about.  Right here and now is too
 wild and
 wacky and wonderful to leave much time for that.

 Unc







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 [EMAIL PROTECTED]







  
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[FairfieldLife] Re: More stirring reviews of Hagelin in What the Bleep

2005-05-16 Thread guybanner2002

What The Bleep Do We Know is one of the best films I have seen. 
Worth seeing! If you see any film this year make it this one!


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  Simon Singh in The Guardian:
  
  And if you are still considering going to see this film, then 
 please 
  bear in mind the credibility and motives of the interviewees in 
 the 
  film. John Hagelin, one of the PhD physicists, is from the 
 Maharishi 
  University of Management. Take my advice and do not see this 
film. 
 I 
  repeat, do not see this film. I repeat again, do not see this 
 film. If 
  you do, then you will leave the cinema misinformed, £8 poorer 
and 
  having wasted two hours of your life.
  · Simon Singh has a PhD in particle physics from Cambridge 
 University. 
  He is also the author of The Code Book and Big Bang, and reviews 
 What 
  the Bleep Do We Know!? for Front Row on BBC Radio 4, Thursday, 
 7.30pm
  
  
  http://tinyurl.com/7dedp
 
 
 It is an awful film.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: FW: a reply to a FFL quote

Rick Archer posted for someone:
 
 Around 1990 one of the big donors once sat in a room with me
 chatting and very seriously told me that Maharishi had
 told him something like the more money you have, the
 more evolved you are.

Guess that means Guru Dev was a low-vibe slime 
during his forest days, eh?  :-)

Unc






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

2005-05-16 Thread anonymousff

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 On May 16, 2005, at 5:46 AM, Llundrub wrote:
snip

  meaning which was tantric speaks about the Middle Path of Gimel 
based 
  on the central pathway of the Otz Chiim, and the raising of ones 
  sights to the third eye in Kether. Der.
 
 Bingo: the amrita-nadi

I like that kabbalah stuff . Any links would be nice to have...




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

2005-05-16 Thread Rick

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 On May 15, 2005, at 9:01 PM, bbrigante wrote:
 
  a true testament to the quality of life in
  the Kaliyuga.
 
 More accurately, a testament to the TMO and the TM-Sidhi program.

No program is any good, there is no program on earth that will by 
itself break through human stubborness. For me the TM-Sidhi program is 
something wonderful. The idea that enlightenment or rather, growth 
toward greater awareness of Self depends mostly on the perfect 
technique or most powerful pranyama or most esoteric insider tantric 
knowledge is just more belief in the relative as far as I am concerned.

TM-Sidhi meditation applied with humility, sincerity and innocence is 
as good as it gets. If one is not attracted to it...fine, find 
something that feels right and enjoy that.

Rick Carlstrom




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Re: [FairfieldLife] FW: a reply to a FFL quote






Around 1990 one of the big donors once sat in a room with 
mechatting and very seriously told me that Maharishi hadtold him 
something like the more money you have, themore evolved you are.

That's no secret. It's the 
obvious caste attitude of the fanatical Hindu who likes keeping slaves and 
enjoys damning democracy where women and minorities have a shot at moving up the 
ladder of professions. Divine order. In this way Guru Dev was very strict. 
He believed in divine order and heloing it to be maintained. He was of the 
Samayacharaya Sri Chakra school which are the most sattvic and 
fundamental. Ironically Maharishi did everything totally against Guru 
Dev's standards. While he's selling Sri he's also giving the knowledge to 
pashus, and recreating a new caste within his new Vatican type institution. it's 
all cogs within wheels within gears. At this late date in the TMO one should not 
take anything very literally or attach any real significance to anything that is 
done in one persons name or another. 

One thing is most sure of 
all. As ye sow so shall ye reap. The rich have more power to rise higher 
or fall lower. If one uses their money to exploit, divide and rule then one day 
they will be at the bottom of that as well. It's very hard for rich people to 
better themselves because they have the mind on their money all the time, not on 
things as they are. Out of ten thousand rich people, only one will do something 
beneficial with it, the rest just maintain status quo, or worse. 

In any case, you can't take it with 
you. I'm sure that was Maharishi's real meaning, you can't take it with you so 
give it to me. Yes, you feel better now yes? Yes. Veddy veddy good. Please go 
sit in the dome now 7 hours a day yes? Yes. Pashu.


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money






Best to just Buy the Golden Dawn by 
regardie, or The Tree of Life. 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  anonymousff 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:42 AM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's 
  money
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
  Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED]... wrote: 
   On May 16, 2005, at 5:46 AM, Llundrub 
  wrote:snip  meaning which was tantric speaks about 
  the Middle Path of Gimel based   on the central pathway of the 
  Otz Chiim, and the raising of ones   sights to the third eye in 
  Kether. Der.  Bingo: the amrita-nadiI like that 
  kabbalah stuff . Any links would be nice to 
  have...To subscribe, send a message 
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  click 'Join This Group!' 
  


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FW: a reply to a FFL quote






No, he was veddy veddy rich. He had 
the trees for shade, the caves for himes, the whole villages for family, the 
rivers for water, the ... you get the picture.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  TurquoiseB 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:39 AM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: FW: a reply 
  to a FFL quote
  Rick Archer posted for someone:  Around 
  1990 one of the big donors once sat in a room with me chatting and 
  very seriously told me that Maharishi had told him something like the 
  more money you have, the more evolved you are.Guess that means 
  Guru Dev was a low-vibe slime during his forest days, eh? 
  :-)UncTo subscribe, send a 
  message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and 
  click 'Join This Group!' 
  


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Re: [FairfieldLife] FW: a reply to a FFL quote


On May 16, 2005, at 1:11 PM, Llundrub wrote:

In any case, you can't take it with you. I'm sure that was Maharishi's real meaning, you can't take it with you so give it to me. Yes, you feel better now yes? Yes. Veddy veddy good. Please go sit in the dome now 7 hours a day yes? Yes.  Pashu.


Maybe not a nice as a pashu, probably worse. Alain Danielou, who was a sishya of Swami Karpatri (the Shankaracharya-maker)--who was a student of Swami Brahmanandi Saraswati--was made to always sit in the back of the room with the untouchables. While Swami Karpatri did teach to all castes, he still closely observed caste divisions. All foreigners are untouchables.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

2005-05-16 Thread anonymousff

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Best to just Buy the Golden Dawn by regardie, or The Tree of Life. 


TY !




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Re: [FairfieldLife] FW: a reply to a FFL quote






Us beasts are basically just cows 
to milk. The irony is that we are given the highest teachings and then 
what? We become Kamadenu, the wish fulfilling cow. Ask Shiva if it's all 
just bull. 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Vaj 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 12:29 PM
  Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] FW: a reply 
  to a FFL quote
  On May 16, 2005, at 1:11 PM, Llundrub wrote:
  In 
any case, you can't take it with you. I'm sure that was Maharishi's real 
meaning, you can't take it with you so give it to me. Yes, you feel better 
now yes? Yes. Veddy veddy good. Please go sit in the dome now 7 hours a day 
yes? Yes. 
  Pashu.Maybe not a 
  nice as a pashu, probably worse. Alain Danielou, who was a sishya of Swami 
  Karpatri (the "Shankaracharya-maker")--who was a student of Swami Brahmanandi 
  Saraswati--was made to always sit in the back of the room with the 
  untouchables. While Swami Karpatri did teach to all castes, he still closely 
  observed caste divisions. All foreigners are 
"untouchables".


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

2005-05-16 Thread gullible fool

  
 Under U.S. tax laws, you can only give 50% of your
 income and deduct it 
 from your taxable income, so it's highly unlikely
 that Gratzon could 
 possibly have made a offer which would have resulted
 in his owing large 
 sums to the U.S. Treasury.

Plus, charitable deducations from personal income can
reduce only federal taxes, and not FICA taxes, which
can often be higher than federal taxes. In my state,
state taxes cannot be reduced, either.


--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 on 5/15/05 8:03 PM, bbrigante at
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

--- bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  on 5/15/05 5:52 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
   Several parts of Earl's letter seem like
 reaction formations--but 
 other
   parts ring true. One of the most disturbing was
 the report of Mahesh
   lamenting his inability to milk the Kaplan's
 entire fortune. It 
 really
   paints a sinister picture of a greed-crazed
 avaricious man that has
   been heard again and again and again. Only this
 time you hear a 
 clear
   source on this. I found it chilling in it's
 portrait of M.
  
  Fred Gratzon told a story of how he offered
 Maharishi all of his 
 money, or
  all of his stock in Telegroup, and Maharishi was
 angry at him. Then he
  offered him half of it, and Maharishi was pleased.
 If Cliff is 
 reading this
  perhaps he can clarify or elaborate.
 
 *
 
 Under U.S. tax laws, you can only give 50% of your
 income and deduct it 
 from your taxable income, so it's highly unlikely
 that Gratzon could 
 possibly have made a offer which would have resulted
 in his owing large 
 sums to the U.S. Treasury.
 
 
 
 
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[FairfieldLife] Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal


Some of you may already know this book, or its author Christopher 
Moore.  Based on the sensibilities of folks here, and your evident 
senses of humor, if you haven't I really think you'd like it.

IMO, Christopher Moore is one of the funniest men on the planet.  You 
can tell a lot just from the titles of some of his books:  Practical 
Demonkeeping, Bloodsucking Fiends: A Love Story, The Lust Lizard 
of Melancholy Cove, and Island of the Sequined Love Nun.

But with Lamb he really outdid himself.  It is *exactly* what its 
title implies, the Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal.  
I think it's a truly funny, sweet, uplifting, and irreverently 
reverent novel. I give if 5 crosses. :-)

I have recommended this book to Buddhists, Hindus, Christians, Jews 
and atheists; to priests, rabbis, Indian gurus, Zen masters, and 
others; not one of them has disliked it, and most, if they could stop 
laughing long enough, have passed the recommendation along to their 
colleagues and/or students.

The book is more provocative in concept than it is in actuality. I 
think it's actually remarkably understated.  The basic idea is 
simple -- an angel named Raziel gets orders to go dirtside and 
resurrect Christ's best friend Levi who was called Biff after 2000 
years to write a new Gospel.  He is to tell the truth this time, as 
only a best friend -- who met his best bud Joshua (Jeshua, Jesus) 
when they both were six, who traveled with him to the East, and who 
was with him as a disciple (not an apostle...there is a difference, 
as you will learn) until the end -- can tell it.

Along the way you will learn the origin of many things. Blond jokes 
(angels are all blond, and are gorgeous but not terribly bright), the 
secret martial art known as Jew-do, sarcasm (invented by Biff, never 
quite understood by Josh), the proper method of choosing a harlot, 
how bunnies came to be associated with Easter, what the rough draft 
of the Sermon on the Mount sounded like, and what the H in Jesus H. 
Christ stands for. 

And yeah, it really is understated, in its own way. Moore could have 
gone WAY over the top with this premise. But he didn't. His version 
of Christ is *exactly* what he is portrayed to be in the four Gospels 
we got stuck with; he just adds a new perspective. And a wonderful 
perspective it is, too. Biff -- total asshole, with the subtlety of a 
water buffalo, with the lustful appetites of a Don Juan and the 
ethics of a weasel, but above all with a love for his friend Josh 
matched in literature only by the one that Sam showed for Frodo 
in The Lord Of The Rings.

It's a great tale. You will laugh out loud more than once a chapter, 
and at the end you will actually see the tale of Jesus differently 
than you did before, and appreciate it more. And, you'll know how to 
tell the difference between a bona fide vision of the Virgin Mary and 
elephant poop. What's not to like about that?

Unc






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[FairfieldLife] where Maharishi went wrong

After thinking over the last day about where Maharishi went wrong, I 
have reached the following conclusions:

He starts out as a naive Indian student and seeker. By naive I mean he 
knows very little about the West, or the rest of the world outside 
India. I suspect too that he was probably kind of a geek as a 
householder, physics student and all...

He is fortunate through his seeking to find Brahmananda Saraswati, and 
commences his study with him. He also decides he will be a celibate 
monk, etc. Through his association with Guru Dev, he derives a clear 
understanding of Reality, and finds he can speak about it clearly too.

I think what was going on here was a couple of things: Maharishi comes 
from India where Hinduism and the knowledge of the Veda are relatively 
commonplace. When I think about his early exposition of his teaching, 
there is not a lot of content, just some mantras and their proper use, 
derived from his closeness to Guru Dev. 

Profound knowledge to be sure, though something which could be derived 
relatively quickly with the proper guidance, if one is already 
operating within a supportive cultural context for such knowledge. 
Combine this with his ability to speak well, and possessing a 
charismatic personality, and who emerges? Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.

Then as he spreads his message and the knowledge of the mantras, 
absorbed by him from Guru Dev, he enjoys enormous success. The success 
is due to him having a systematic and practical technique to back up 
his speaking. However, he remains a naive monk from India. He also has 
the ambition to enlighten the world. Given his experience up til then, 
and 'cooking' in Guru Dev's presence for years, it seems a reasonable 
ambition.

As he becomes more and more successful, beyond his wildest dreams I am 
sure, he begins to see that those around him are granting him 
unlimited power over them. He now begins to equate the rudimentary 
knowledge that he has perfected, the teaching of TM mantras, with 
himself. He also sees that to ever admit that he is less than perfect 
will possibly jeopardize his teaching amongst his followers, and 
consequently his ambition to enlighten the world.

Here we come to the good part: So now, Maharishi finds himself in a 
position where he has a lot of power, unfulfilled desires, and little 
knowledge about the West. A potentially explosive combo for sure.

He begins to act out his unfulfilled desires for sex and hobnobbing 
with the rich and powerful; pretty common desires in the world. At the 
same time, he is aware from the feedback he has received that he is 
seen as a realized Master (and he is probably pretty high on himself 
at this point too...). 

This sets up the key quandry for Maharishi:
If he acts on his desires and is open about it, he will disappoint the 
vision of himself that his followers, and he himself, has of himself, 
Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, the celibate monk. If he doesn't act on his 
desires, this 'guru' business just isn't all that much fun, is it?

So he makes his fatal mistake: He will act on his desires for sex and 
hobnobbing with the rich, only he won't admit it to his public, and 
possibly not to himself as time goes on...

And it works for awhile, however unbeknownst to Maharishi, Guru Dev 
has planted a time bomb of sorts associated with this type of 
deception. 

Unlike a businessman or politician who indulges in the abuse of power, 
the sins of a meditator, including Maharishi, will come to light more 
quickly with far more devastating consequences, for the simple reason 
that the use of the TM mantra leads to an irrevocable expansion of 
awareness. And what you are aware of, you are accountable for. 

This expansion of awareness in Maharishi and those around him meant 
that on a subtle feeling level he was literally broadcasting his 
hidden desires, while at the same time attempting to keep them quiet 
on the surface.

Like the wife of a husband who is cheating on her, those around 
Maharishi knew on a subtle level something was wrong, but their 
infatuation with 'the monk from India' illusion kept them from seeing 
it clearly, and calling him on it.

This then led to the dyfunction common in such situations. The impact 
on Maharishi's organization was devestating, especially so because of 
the ongoing expansion of awareness experienced by the group. There is 
obviously no way to support the very selective expansion of awareness; 
it leads to warping of the mind. 

As all of us here can attest, with our ongoing meditations, awareness 
expands 360 degrees, not selectively as we may wish it to.

To make a long story short, this was the undoing of Maharishi. 
Although he has continued to grow and change, he has never been able 
to put the genie back in the bottle. His organization, mirroring his 
need for deception has become necessarily deformed from what it might 
have been, similar to an inflating balloon which is being stepped on.

The purity of the teaching remains. TM

[FairfieldLife] Re: where Maharishi went wrong

I had a similar (but not exactly the same) set of insights
not long ago, Jim, while sitting at one of my favorite cafes
here in Paris.  I'll try to find it and post it here.  It's
fascinating that such things must be in the air right now,
and are being picked up on by people who cared (and still
care, despite everything) for Maharishi.

Unc

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 After thinking over the last day about where Maharishi went wrong, 
I 
 have reached the following conclusions:
 
 He starts out as a naive Indian student and seeker. By naive I mean 
he 
 knows very little about the West, or the rest of the world outside 
 India. I suspect too that he was probably kind of a geek as a 
 householder, physics student and all...
 
 He is fortunate through his seeking to find Brahmananda Saraswati, 
and 
 commences his study with him. He also decides he will be a celibate 
 monk, etc. Through his association with Guru Dev, he derives a 
clear 
 understanding of Reality, and finds he can speak about it clearly 
too.
 
 I think what was going on here was a couple of things: Maharishi 
comes 
 from India where Hinduism and the knowledge of the Veda are 
relatively 
 commonplace. When I think about his early exposition of his 
teaching, 
 there is not a lot of content, just some mantras and their proper 
use, 
 derived from his closeness to Guru Dev. 
 
 Profound knowledge to be sure, though something which could be 
derived 
 relatively quickly with the proper guidance, if one is already 
 operating within a supportive cultural context for such knowledge. 
 Combine this with his ability to speak well, and possessing a 
 charismatic personality, and who emerges? Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.
 
 Then as he spreads his message and the knowledge of the mantras, 
 absorbed by him from Guru Dev, he enjoys enormous success. The 
success 
 is due to him having a systematic and practical technique to back 
up 
 his speaking. However, he remains a naive monk from India. He also 
has 
 the ambition to enlighten the world. Given his experience up til 
then, 
 and 'cooking' in Guru Dev's presence for years, it seems a 
reasonable 
 ambition.
 
 As he becomes more and more successful, beyond his wildest dreams I 
am 
 sure, he begins to see that those around him are granting him 
 unlimited power over them. He now begins to equate the rudimentary 
 knowledge that he has perfected, the teaching of TM mantras, with 
 himself. He also sees that to ever admit that he is less than 
perfect 
 will possibly jeopardize his teaching amongst his followers, and 
 consequently his ambition to enlighten the world.
 
 Here we come to the good part: So now, Maharishi finds himself in a 
 position where he has a lot of power, unfulfilled desires, and 
little 
 knowledge about the West. A potentially explosive combo for sure.
 
 He begins to act out his unfulfilled desires for sex and hobnobbing 
 with the rich and powerful; pretty common desires in the world. At 
the 
 same time, he is aware from the feedback he has received that he is 
 seen as a realized Master (and he is probably pretty high on 
himself 
 at this point too...). 
 
 This sets up the key quandry for Maharishi:
 If he acts on his desires and is open about it, he will disappoint 
the 
 vision of himself that his followers, and he himself, has of 
himself, 
 Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, the celibate monk. If he doesn't act on his 
 desires, this 'guru' business just isn't all that much fun, is it?
 
 So he makes his fatal mistake: He will act on his desires for sex 
and 
 hobnobbing with the rich, only he won't admit it to his public, and 
 possibly not to himself as time goes on...
 
 And it works for awhile, however unbeknownst to Maharishi, Guru Dev 
 has planted a time bomb of sorts associated with this type of 
 deception. 
 
 Unlike a businessman or politician who indulges in the abuse of 
power, 
 the sins of a meditator, including Maharishi, will come to light 
more 
 quickly with far more devastating consequences, for the simple 
reason 
 that the use of the TM mantra leads to an irrevocable expansion of 
 awareness. And what you are aware of, you are accountable for. 
 
 This expansion of awareness in Maharishi and those around him meant 
 that on a subtle feeling level he was literally broadcasting his 
 hidden desires, while at the same time attempting to keep them 
quiet 
 on the surface.
 
 Like the wife of a husband who is cheating on her, those around 
 Maharishi knew on a subtle level something was wrong, but their 
 infatuation with 'the monk from India' illusion kept them from 
seeing 
 it clearly, and calling him on it.
 
 This then led to the dyfunction common in such situations. The 
impact 
 on Maharishi's organization was devestating, especially so because 
of 
 the ongoing expansion of awareness experienced by the group. There 
is 
 obviously no way to support the very selective expansion of 
awareness; 
 it leads to

[FairfieldLife] Just Another Cafe 'What If' Story


What if the whole history of the TM movement were an 
outgrowth of a young bhakti's attachment to the object 
of his love, and desire to have that love requited 
in the form of appreciation of the work that he did 
on his behalf? 

I don't think many of us here know much about Guru Dev 
and his personality.  People make assumptions about his 
enlightenment, but hey!...even the enlightened have 
personalities.  What if his was a bit on the gruff side, 
as some of the photos hint at, and he was less than 
emotionally open to those around him?  Or, what if, 
having been brought up in a tradition in which one does 
not often praise those around them openly because that 
might lead to the development of ego in odd ways, he 
never praised those who worked with him and for him? 

And what if one of those who worked for him were a young 
bhakti who was just head over heels in love with Guru Dev 
(and please get your minds out of the gutter...I am NOT, 
even for a moment, suggesting any kind of 'unnatural' love 
here, merely head-over-heels bhakti) and who worked his 
butt off for him every day, doing menial jobs and what- 
ever needed to be done around the ashram? 

What if the process of doing that -- performing selfless 
service -- got the young bhakti high as a kite and even 
opened for him a few glimpses into higher states of con- 
sciousness?  And what if that were cool, but what the 
young bhakti *really* wanted, more than anything else in 
life, was for Guru Dev to turn to him one day and say, 
Mahesh, you're the best? 

And what if that never happened?  What if the object of 
this love just up and died one day, without ever having 
said it?  What if the young bhakti were so distraught 
that he threw himself into the Ganges, trying to follow 
his beloved teacher to the grave? 

Time passes.  The young bhakti is still fixated on Guru 
Dev, still heavily attached to him, and still wanting to 
serve him, because service is really the only thing that 
really got him high.  Besides, in his heart he's still 
hoping to hear Guru Dev say someday, Mahesh, you're 
the best. 

Think about Maharishi's fascination with the story of 
Trotaka, and about the importance he has given that story 
in his teachings.  What was the outcome of that story? 
Someone saying, Trotaka, you're the best. 

So the young bhakti puts together some meditation tech- 
niques and begins to teach them.  He goes to the West, 
finds it receptive to these techniques, and an organiza- 
tion forms. 

And as it forms, he subtly (and probably unconsciously) 
shapes it to resemble the situation he grew up in. 
There is One teacher, One source of knowledge, One chain 
of command, and this time he's the One.  And almost from 
Day One, a strong part of the dogma he teaches is that 
this set of teachings is the best. 

As more and more people join the organization, the dogma 
extends to measures to try to ensure that no one within 
it has much opportunity to learn otherwise.  Prohibitions 
about reading books from other spiritual traditions arise; 
after time they are actually enforced with shunning within 
the organization or, if the need arises, removal from the 
organization.  And a subdogma arises about how the faithful 
should *think* of those who have been removed from the 
organization, or worse, have chosen to leave it on their 
own.  They are to be pitied for having lost the Way, and 
they are to be shunned if encountered, and they are to be 
badrapped to others if their name comes up in conversation. 

The image of the best is preserved.  And the young man 
whose spiritual teacher would never tell him that he was 
the best becomes the person whom most of the people in 
the organization consider the best.  And then, karma being 
the real pain in the ass that it is, the young man gradually 
becomes an old man, and along the Way has to deal with what 
being considered the best can DO to an ego. 

These are just random thoughts on a holiday afternoon here 
in Paris, sitting at a sidewalk café sipping a fine Saint 
Émillion Grand Cru and thinking about Maharishi.  You're 
getting them as they flow by, unpolished, un-thought- 
through. They're Just Another Café 'What If' Story. 

But I like the story because it makes me smile, and think 
even more positively about Maharishi than ever. 

What if all of this were true?  What if, to some extent, the 
whole history of the TM movement were really based on a young 
man's attachment to his spiritual teacher, and his desire to 
hear four simple words: Mahesh, you're the best?  What if 
that really *were* what it was all about? 

Well in my book that would be just fine.  Look at what 
the man did.  He managed to turn millions of fellow human 
beings on to the joys of meditation and the pathway to 
enlightenment.  In one way or another, he will continue to 
do so even after his own death.  That's a nice thing to have 
done with one's life, *whatever* the reasons for doing it 
might have been. 

The karmic value

[FairfieldLife] Re: where Maharishi went wrong

Neat. I'd love to see Paris some day and just revel in the beauty of 
the architecture...

Yes, please post if you find it. As far as Maharishi goes, I can't 
judge the guy (there but for the grace of God...) and his mantra has 
worked superbly over the years. It is too bad things worked 
out/didn't work out as they did. On the other hand that seems pretty 
typical for the times we live in.

Enjoy your coffee and croissant...

Jim

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 I had a similar (but not exactly the same) set of insights
 not long ago, Jim, while sitting at one of my favorite cafes
 here in Paris.  I'll try to find it and post it here.  It's
 fascinating that such things must be in the air right now,
 and are being picked up on by people who cared (and still
 care, despite everything) for Maharishi.
 
 Unc
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  After thinking over the last day about where Maharishi went 
wrong, 
 I 
  have reached the following conclusions:
  
  He starts out as a naive Indian student and seeker. By naive I 
mean 
 he 
  knows very little about the West, or the rest of the world 
outside 
  India. I suspect too that he was probably kind of a geek as a 
  householder, physics student and all...
  
  He is fortunate through his seeking to find Brahmananda 
Saraswati, 
 and 
  commences his study with him. He also decides he will be a 
celibate 
  monk, etc. Through his association with Guru Dev, he derives a 
 clear 
  understanding of Reality, and finds he can speak about it 
clearly 
 too.
  
  I think what was going on here was a couple of things: Maharishi 
 comes 
  from India where Hinduism and the knowledge of the Veda are 
 relatively 
  commonplace. When I think about his early exposition of his 
 teaching, 
  there is not a lot of content, just some mantras and their 
proper 
 use, 
  derived from his closeness to Guru Dev. 
  
  Profound knowledge to be sure, though something which could be 
 derived 
  relatively quickly with the proper guidance, if one is already 
  operating within a supportive cultural context for such 
knowledge. 
  Combine this with his ability to speak well, and possessing a 
  charismatic personality, and who emerges? Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.
  
  Then as he spreads his message and the knowledge of the mantras, 
  absorbed by him from Guru Dev, he enjoys enormous success. The 
 success 
  is due to him having a systematic and practical technique to 
back 
 up 
  his speaking. However, he remains a naive monk from India. He 
also 
 has 
  the ambition to enlighten the world. Given his experience up til 
 then, 
  and 'cooking' in Guru Dev's presence for years, it seems a 
 reasonable 
  ambition.
  
  As he becomes more and more successful, beyond his wildest 
dreams I 
 am 
  sure, he begins to see that those around him are granting him 
  unlimited power over them. He now begins to equate the 
rudimentary 
  knowledge that he has perfected, the teaching of TM mantras, 
with 
  himself. He also sees that to ever admit that he is less than 
 perfect 
  will possibly jeopardize his teaching amongst his followers, and 
  consequently his ambition to enlighten the world.
  
  Here we come to the good part: So now, Maharishi finds himself 
in a 
  position where he has a lot of power, unfulfilled desires, and 
 little 
  knowledge about the West. A potentially explosive combo for sure.
  
  He begins to act out his unfulfilled desires for sex and 
hobnobbing 
  with the rich and powerful; pretty common desires in the world. 
At 
 the 
  same time, he is aware from the feedback he has received that he 
is 
  seen as a realized Master (and he is probably pretty high on 
 himself 
  at this point too...). 
  
  This sets up the key quandry for Maharishi:
  If he acts on his desires and is open about it, he will 
disappoint 
 the 
  vision of himself that his followers, and he himself, has of 
 himself, 
  Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, the celibate monk. If he doesn't act on 
his 
  desires, this 'guru' business just isn't all that much fun, is 
it?
  
  So he makes his fatal mistake: He will act on his desires for 
sex 
 and 
  hobnobbing with the rich, only he won't admit it to his public, 
and 
  possibly not to himself as time goes on...
  
  And it works for awhile, however unbeknownst to Maharishi, Guru 
Dev 
  has planted a time bomb of sorts associated with this type of 
  deception. 
  
  Unlike a businessman or politician who indulges in the abuse of 
 power, 
  the sins of a meditator, including Maharishi, will come to light 
 more 
  quickly with far more devastating consequences, for the simple 
 reason 
  that the use of the TM mantra leads to an irrevocable expansion 
of 
  awareness. And what you are aware of, you are accountable for. 
  
  This expansion of awareness in Maharishi and those around him 
meant 
  that on a subtle feeling level he was literally

[FairfieldLife] Re: Just Another Cafe 'What If' Story

Just to clarify, I was being kind in the last line 
of this story.  I don't *really* believe that Maharishi
is, in *any* sense, the best.  Nor do I believe that
the TM technique is the best.  I don't believe that
*any* tradition or technique or teacher is the best.

But I do suspect that it'll be a tough call when Maha-
rishi steps on those karmic scales.  On the one hand, IMO,
the man has made some serious errors, errors that have
had less than positive effects upon his followers.

On the other, many if not most of those followers are
still on a spiritual path.  Just look at this forum.
It may not be the path that Maharishi envisioned, and
often did his best to badger them into following blindly,
but they're still on the pathway to enlightenment.

In my less-than-humble opinion, that counts.  While I
may, from time to time, rail against some of his latest
follies, I still feel gratitude to him for helping to
set me on the pathway to enlightenment.  And as a result
I forgive him much.  It won't keep me from pointing out
some of the follies of his old age from time to time,
but I hope it will help me to keep compassion in mind
as I do so.

If my little cafe story has any truth to it, I think
Guru Dev would have been *correct* not to praise the
young Mahesh.  Some people are just not ready to be
the focus of that kind of attention.  It has a very
predictable effect on the ego, and I think that a 
number of us have seen what that effect is.  But at
the same time, compassion also has its place.  How
many of us could have done better, or even as well?

Unc






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just Another Cafe 'What If' Story

Beautifully said. And beautifully sad.

Jim

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 
 What if the whole history of the TM movement were an 
 outgrowth of a young bhakti's attachment to the object 
 of his love, and desire to have that love requited 
 in the form of appreciation of the work that he did 
 on his behalf? 
 
 I don't think many of us here know much about Guru Dev 
 and his personality.  People make assumptions about his 
 enlightenment, but hey!...even the enlightened have 
 personalities.  What if his was a bit on the gruff side, 
 as some of the photos hint at, and he was less than 
 emotionally open to those around him?  Or, what if, 
 having been brought up in a tradition in which one does 
 not often praise those around them openly because that 
 might lead to the development of ego in odd ways, he 
 never praised those who worked with him and for him? 
 
 And what if one of those who worked for him were a young 
 bhakti who was just head over heels in love with Guru Dev 
 (and please get your minds out of the gutter...I am NOT, 
 even for a moment, suggesting any kind of 'unnatural' love 
 here, merely head-over-heels bhakti) and who worked his 
 butt off for him every day, doing menial jobs and what- 
 ever needed to be done around the ashram? 
 
 What if the process of doing that -- performing selfless 
 service -- got the young bhakti high as a kite and even 
 opened for him a few glimpses into higher states of con- 
 sciousness?  And what if that were cool, but what the 
 young bhakti *really* wanted, more than anything else in 
 life, was for Guru Dev to turn to him one day and say, 
 Mahesh, you're the best? 
 
 And what if that never happened?  What if the object of 
 this love just up and died one day, without ever having 
 said it?  What if the young bhakti were so distraught 
 that he threw himself into the Ganges, trying to follow 
 his beloved teacher to the grave? 
 
 Time passes.  The young bhakti is still fixated on Guru 
 Dev, still heavily attached to him, and still wanting to 
 serve him, because service is really the only thing that 
 really got him high.  Besides, in his heart he's still 
 hoping to hear Guru Dev say someday, Mahesh, you're 
 the best. 
 
 Think about Maharishi's fascination with the story of 
 Trotaka, and about the importance he has given that story 
 in his teachings.  What was the outcome of that story? 
 Someone saying, Trotaka, you're the best. 
 
 So the young bhakti puts together some meditation tech- 
 niques and begins to teach them.  He goes to the West, 
 finds it receptive to these techniques, and an organiza- 
 tion forms. 
 
 And as it forms, he subtly (and probably unconsciously) 
 shapes it to resemble the situation he grew up in. 
 There is One teacher, One source of knowledge, One chain 
 of command, and this time he's the One.  And almost from 
 Day One, a strong part of the dogma he teaches is that 
 this set of teachings is the best. 
 
 As more and more people join the organization, the dogma 
 extends to measures to try to ensure that no one within 
 it has much opportunity to learn otherwise.  Prohibitions 
 about reading books from other spiritual traditions arise; 
 after time they are actually enforced with shunning within 
 the organization or, if the need arises, removal from the 
 organization.  And a subdogma arises about how the faithful 
 should *think* of those who have been removed from the 
 organization, or worse, have chosen to leave it on their 
 own.  They are to be pitied for having lost the Way, and 
 they are to be shunned if encountered, and they are to be 
 badrapped to others if their name comes up in conversation. 
 
 The image of the best is preserved.  And the young man 
 whose spiritual teacher would never tell him that he was 
 the best becomes the person whom most of the people in 
 the organization consider the best.  And then, karma being 
 the real pain in the ass that it is, the young man gradually 
 becomes an old man, and along the Way has to deal with what 
 being considered the best can DO to an ego. 
 
 These are just random thoughts on a holiday afternoon here 
 in Paris, sitting at a sidewalk café sipping a fine Saint 
 Émillion Grand Cru and thinking about Maharishi.  You're 
 getting them as they flow by, unpolished, un-thought- 
 through. They're Just Another Café 'What If' Story. 
 
 But I like the story because it makes me smile, and think 
 even more positively about Maharishi than ever. 
 
 What if all of this were true?  What if, to some extent, the 
 whole history of the TM movement were really based on a young 
 man's attachment to his spiritual teacher, and his desire to 
 hear four simple words: Mahesh, you're the best?  What if 
 that really *were* what it was all about? 
 
 Well in my book that would be just fine.  Look at what 
 the man did.  He managed to turn millions of fellow human 
 beings on to the joys of meditation and the

[FairfieldLife] The trouble with Buddhists

The trouble with Buddhists is that they are too attached to Buddhism 
to be Buddhists.




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[FairfieldLife] When is a Buddhist not a Buddhist

When he is Vaj or Rudra Joe.





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[FairfieldLife] Buddha Quote # 1

Believe nothing. 
No matter where you read it,
Or who said it, 
Even if I have said it, 
Unless it agrees with your own reason 
And your own common sense.

~ Buddha
6th century bce Indian mystic and founder of Buddhism from The 
Dhammapada 



SEEMS KINDA CRAZY
I'M SURE THE BUDDHA NEVER SAID THAT




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just Another Cafe 'What If' Story

2005-05-16 Thread anonymousff

I think you watched too many Rocky movies (I-V) just before you left.

lol

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 
 What if the whole history of the TM movement were an 
 outgrowth of a young bhakti's attachment to the object 
 of his love, and desire to have that love requited 
 in the form of appreciation of the work that he did 
 on his behalf? 
 
 I don't think many of us here know much about Guru Dev 
 and his personality.  People make assumptions about his 
 enlightenment, but hey!...even the enlightened have 
 personalities.  What if his was a bit on the gruff side, 
 as some of the photos hint at, and he was less than 
 emotionally open to those around him?  Or, what if, 
 having been brought up in a tradition in which one does 
 not often praise those around them openly because that 
 might lead to the development of ego in odd ways, he 
 never praised those who worked with him and for him? 
 
 And what if one of those who worked for him were a young 
 bhakti who was just head over heels in love with Guru Dev 
 (and please get your minds out of the gutter...I am NOT, 
 even for a moment, suggesting any kind of 'unnatural' love 
 here, merely head-over-heels bhakti) and who worked his 
 butt off for him every day, doing menial jobs and what- 
 ever needed to be done around the ashram? 
 
 What if the process of doing that -- performing selfless 
 service -- got the young bhakti high as a kite and even 
 opened for him a few glimpses into higher states of con- 
 sciousness?  And what if that were cool, but what the 
 young bhakti *really* wanted, more than anything else in 
 life, was for Guru Dev to turn to him one day and say, 
 Mahesh, you're the best? 
 
 And what if that never happened?  What if the object of 
 this love just up and died one day, without ever having 
 said it?  What if the young bhakti were so distraught 
 that he threw himself into the Ganges, trying to follow 
 his beloved teacher to the grave? 
 
 Time passes.  The young bhakti is still fixated on Guru 
 Dev, still heavily attached to him, and still wanting to 
 serve him, because service is really the only thing that 
 really got him high.  Besides, in his heart he's still 
 hoping to hear Guru Dev say someday, Mahesh, you're 
 the best. 
 
 Think about Maharishi's fascination with the story of 
 Trotaka, and about the importance he has given that story 
 in his teachings.  What was the outcome of that story? 
 Someone saying, Trotaka, you're the best. 
 
 So the young bhakti puts together some meditation tech- 
 niques and begins to teach them.  He goes to the West, 
 finds it receptive to these techniques, and an organiza- 
 tion forms. 
 
 And as it forms, he subtly (and probably unconsciously) 
 shapes it to resemble the situation he grew up in. 
 There is One teacher, One source of knowledge, One chain 
 of command, and this time he's the One.  And almost from 
 Day One, a strong part of the dogma he teaches is that 
 this set of teachings is the best. 
 
 As more and more people join the organization, the dogma 
 extends to measures to try to ensure that no one within 
 it has much opportunity to learn otherwise.  Prohibitions 
 about reading books from other spiritual traditions arise; 
 after time they are actually enforced with shunning within 
 the organization or, if the need arises, removal from the 
 organization.  And a subdogma arises about how the faithful 
 should *think* of those who have been removed from the 
 organization, or worse, have chosen to leave it on their 
 own.  They are to be pitied for having lost the Way, and 
 they are to be shunned if encountered, and they are to be 
 badrapped to others if their name comes up in conversation. 
 
 The image of the best is preserved.  And the young man 
 whose spiritual teacher would never tell him that he was 
 the best becomes the person whom most of the people in 
 the organization consider the best.  And then, karma being 
 the real pain in the ass that it is, the young man gradually 
 becomes an old man, and along the Way has to deal with what 
 being considered the best can DO to an ego. 
 
 These are just random thoughts on a holiday afternoon here 
 in Paris, sitting at a sidewalk café sipping a fine Saint 
 Émillion Grand Cru and thinking about Maharishi.  You're 
 getting them as they flow by, unpolished, un-thought- 
 through. They're Just Another Café 'What If' Story. 
 
 But I like the story because it makes me smile, and think 
 even more positively about Maharishi than ever. 
 
 What if all of this were true?  What if, to some extent, the 
 whole history of the TM movement were really based on a young 
 man's attachment to his spiritual teacher, and his desire to 
 hear four simple words: Mahesh, you're the best?  What if 
 that really *were* what it was all about? 
 
 Well in my book that would be just fine.  Look at what 
 the man did.  He managed to turn millions of fellow human 
 beings on to the

[FairfieldLife] Re: The Kaplan Money

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, suziezuzie [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Llundrub [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  wrote:
Bob, nobodies stake in the movement is or was as high as the
   Kaplains. Therefore you have no right to judge them. They gave
  more
   than anyone, and all they wanted was one single promise to come
  true.
   
  
   **
  
   When you go to Disneyland and get on a E-ticket ride (maybe E
  tickets
   are passe, who knows), you stay on the ride til the end for
  complete
   satisfaction. The Ks left -- too bad for them, but they were
 fools.
  
   The Ks could have been 200percenters, rich and enlightened, but
  like
   stereotypical snotty rich kids, they threw a tantrum, made a lot
  of
   faces, and left with their baseball glove, instead of sticking
  around and helping the movement to grow.
 
 
  Bob, it sounds like you are saying that is the Kaplans had stayed
  longer then they definitely would have become enlightened 
(whatever
  that means). What about all the people who faithfully followed MMY
  until their deaths, did they achieve complete satisfaction, did
 they
  all achieve a state of enlightenment? What are you talking about
  here?
 
  Rick Carlstrom
 
 Rick, 
 


 Bob isn't talking about anything that can be validated by any past 
events but is just 
 making some pretty silly assumptions. By the way, he forgot to put 
in the 
 word 'Jewish' in his list of epithets. 
 


I did not know that you were a Jew-hater. I despise that unfortunate 
trait, and I am unable to include that pointless ethnic 
identification in my characterization of the Kaplans.


 If we consider the past as an indication to answer your question, 
then we would have 
 to conclude that most likely, what would have happened to the 
Kaplans had they donated 
 all their money, is that their money would have either had been 
lost, misappropriated 
 or allocated to questionable TM programs. No one can predict if 
they would have become 
 enlightened or simply would have left the movement much worse off 
than now. 
 
 Mark

This is absolutely typical of the muddled thinking you find on this 
list. How you jump to the loopy idea that the Kaplans were going to 
donate all their money, I have no idea, but it's as far away from 
reality as anything you have to say. The Kaplans could have created a 
private foundation so that they would have had total control over 
their allocations to the movement, but they did not, so they can't 
complain if a few million were not spent in the way that they wanted. 
If you do not regard the practice of TM as a path to enlightenment, 
that is an opinion which any ignoramus can hold, but it is not my 
opinion -- the Ks quit TM in a pique over their maltreatment, 
throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and they will someday 
recognize how utterly foolish that is, even if that someday is after 
they croak in the most pathetic way possible: old, sick, ignorant, 
and rich.

Bob Brigante
http://geocities.com/bbrigante/updates.html




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha Quote # 2

Life is suffering - The Buddha


Only for those who suffer.




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gullible fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
   
  Under U.S. tax laws, you can only give 50% of your
  income and deduct it 
  from your taxable income, so it's highly unlikely
  that Gratzon could 
  possibly have made a offer which would have resulted
  in his owing large 
  sums to the U.S. Treasury.
 


 Plus, charitable deducations from personal income can
 reduce only federal taxes, and not FICA taxes, which
 can often be higher than federal taxes. In my state,
 state taxes cannot be reduced, either.
 

But Social Security taxes are limited to the first ~$90k of earned 
income, so would not affect the hypothetical Gratzon situation.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gullible fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
   
  Under U.S. tax laws, you can only give 50% of your
  income and deduct it 
  from your taxable income, so it's highly unlikely
  that Gratzon could 
  possibly have made a offer which would have resulted
  in his owing large 
  sums to the U.S. Treasury.
 
 Plus, charitable deducations from personal income can
 reduce only federal taxes, and not FICA taxes, which
 can often be higher than federal taxes. In my state,
 state taxes cannot be reduced, either.
 


But FICA taxes are limited to the first $90K of earned income, so 
would not apply to the hypothetical Gratzon situation anyway:

http://tinyurl.com/7cmjc




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha Quote # 2

The Buddha:
He whose inflowing thoughts are dried up, who is unattached to 
food, whose dwelling place is an empty and imageless release -- the 
way of such a person is hard to follow, like the path of birds 
through the sky. 93 

When a man's senses have come to peace, like a horses well broken by 
the trainer, when he is rid of conceit and without inflowing 
thoughts -- even devas envy such a well set man. 94 

Like the earth he is not disturbed, like a great pillar he is firmly 
set and reliable, like a lake he is free from defilement. There are 
no more rebirths for such a well set man. 95 

Freed by full realisation and at peace, the mind of such a man is at 
peace, and his speech and action peaceful. 96 

He has no need for faith who knows the uncreated, who has cut off 
rebirth, who has destroyed any opportunity for good or evil, and 
cast away all desire. He is indeed the ultimate man. 97 

Whether in the village or the forest, whether on high ground or low, 
wherever the enlightened live, that is a delightful spot. 98 

Delightful for them are the forests where men find no delight. The 
desire-free find delight there, for they seek no sensual joys.


THIS SOUNDS A LOT LIKE THAT RIG VEDA VERSE:'RICHO ACHARE'.
DOES ANYONE REMEMBER IT?

DOES ANYONE KNOW THE ACTUAL SANKRIT OR PALI THAT THE BUDDHA WOULD 
HAVE AQCTUALLY SPOKEN THIS? WHAT IS THE VERSE IN HIS LANGUAGE?





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[FairfieldLife] Buddhist Calander

On my Buddhist Calander it says today is Question Buddhism Day. Is 
that right? I thought it was supposed to be on May 17th?




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[FairfieldLife] Rumi

2005-05-16 Thread benjaminccollins

A baby pigeon stands on the edge of a nest all day.
Then he hears a whistle, Come to me.
How could he not fly toward that?
Wings tear through the body's robe when
a letter arrives that says,
You've flapped and fluttered against limits long enough.

You've been a bird without wings
in a house without doors or windows.

Compassion builds a door.
Restlessness cuts a key.

Ask.  Step off into air like a baby bird.
Strut proudly into sunlight,
not looking back.

Take sips of this pure wine being poured.
Don't mind that you've been given a dirty cup.

   -- Version by Coleman Barks 
  These Branching Moments, 
  Copper Beech Press, 1988




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Just Another Cafe 'What If' Story

not 'Pee-wee's Big Adventure'?

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, anonymousff [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 I think you watched too many Rocky movies (I-V) just before you 
left.
 
 lol
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  
  What if the whole history of the TM movement were an 
  outgrowth of a young bhakti's attachment to the object 
  of his love, and desire to have that love requited 
  in the form of appreciation of the work that he did 
  on his behalf? 
  
  I don't think many of us here know much about Guru Dev 
  and his personality.  People make assumptions about his 
  enlightenment, but hey!...even the enlightened have 
  personalities.  What if his was a bit on the gruff side, 
  as some of the photos hint at, and he was less than 
  emotionally open to those around him?  Or, what if, 
  having been brought up in a tradition in which one does 
  not often praise those around them openly because that 
  might lead to the development of ego in odd ways, he 
  never praised those who worked with him and for him? 
  
  And what if one of those who worked for him were a young 
  bhakti who was just head over heels in love with Guru Dev 
  (and please get your minds out of the gutter...I am NOT, 
  even for a moment, suggesting any kind of 'unnatural' love 
  here, merely head-over-heels bhakti) and who worked his 
  butt off for him every day, doing menial jobs and what- 
  ever needed to be done around the ashram? 
  
  What if the process of doing that -- performing selfless 
  service -- got the young bhakti high as a kite and even 
  opened for him a few glimpses into higher states of con- 
  sciousness?  And what if that were cool, but what the 
  young bhakti *really* wanted, more than anything else in 
  life, was for Guru Dev to turn to him one day and say, 
  Mahesh, you're the best? 
  
  And what if that never happened?  What if the object of 
  this love just up and died one day, without ever having 
  said it?  What if the young bhakti were so distraught 
  that he threw himself into the Ganges, trying to follow 
  his beloved teacher to the grave? 
  
  Time passes.  The young bhakti is still fixated on Guru 
  Dev, still heavily attached to him, and still wanting to 
  serve him, because service is really the only thing that 
  really got him high.  Besides, in his heart he's still 
  hoping to hear Guru Dev say someday, Mahesh, you're 
  the best. 
  
  Think about Maharishi's fascination with the story of 
  Trotaka, and about the importance he has given that story 
  in his teachings.  What was the outcome of that story? 
  Someone saying, Trotaka, you're the best. 
  
  So the young bhakti puts together some meditation tech- 
  niques and begins to teach them.  He goes to the West, 
  finds it receptive to these techniques, and an organiza- 
  tion forms. 
  
  And as it forms, he subtly (and probably unconsciously) 
  shapes it to resemble the situation he grew up in. 
  There is One teacher, One source of knowledge, One chain 
  of command, and this time he's the One.  And almost from 
  Day One, a strong part of the dogma he teaches is that 
  this set of teachings is the best. 
  
  As more and more people join the organization, the dogma 
  extends to measures to try to ensure that no one within 
  it has much opportunity to learn otherwise.  Prohibitions 
  about reading books from other spiritual traditions arise; 
  after time they are actually enforced with shunning within 
  the organization or, if the need arises, removal from the 
  organization.  And a subdogma arises about how the faithful 
  should *think* of those who have been removed from the 
  organization, or worse, have chosen to leave it on their 
  own.  They are to be pitied for having lost the Way, and 
  they are to be shunned if encountered, and they are to be 
  badrapped to others if their name comes up in conversation. 
  
  The image of the best is preserved.  And the young man 
  whose spiritual teacher would never tell him that he was 
  the best becomes the person whom most of the people in 
  the organization consider the best.  And then, karma being 
  the real pain in the ass that it is, the young man gradually 
  becomes an old man, and along the Way has to deal with what 
  being considered the best can DO to an ego. 
  
  These are just random thoughts on a holiday afternoon here 
  in Paris, sitting at a sidewalk café sipping a fine Saint 
  Émillion Grand Cru and thinking about Maharishi.  You're 
  getting them as they flow by, unpolished, un-thought- 
  through. They're Just Another Café 'What If' Story. 
  
  But I like the story because it makes me smile, and think 
  even more positively about Maharishi than ever. 
  
  What if all of this were true?  What if, to some extent, the 
  whole history of the TM movement were really based on a young 
  man's attachment to his spiritual teacher, and his desire to 
  hear four simple words:

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha Quote # 2






How old are you?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  off_world_beings 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 4:27 PM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Buddha Quote 
  # 2
  The Buddha:""He whose inflowing thoughts are dried up, 
  who is unattached to food, whose dwelling place is an empty and imageless 
  release -- the way of such a person is hard to follow, like the path of 
  birds through the sky. 93 When a man's senses have come to peace, 
  like a horses well broken by the trainer, when he is rid of conceit and 
  without inflowing thoughts -- even devas envy such a well set man. 94 
  Like the earth he is not disturbed, like a great pillar he is firmly 
  set and reliable, like a lake he is free from defilement. There are no 
  more rebirths for such a well set man. 95 Freed by full realisation 
  and at peace, the mind of such a man is at peace, and his speech and 
  action peaceful. 96 He has no need for faith who knows the uncreated, 
  who has cut off rebirth, who has destroyed any opportunity for good or 
  evil, and cast away all desire. He is indeed the ultimate man. 97 
  Whether in the village or the forest, whether on high ground or low, 
  wherever the enlightened live, that is a delightful spot. 98 
  Delightful for them are the forests where men find no delight. The 
  desire-free find delight there, for they seek no sensual 
  joys.""THIS SOUNDS A LOT LIKE THAT RIG VEDA VERSE:'RICHO 
  ACHARE'.DOES ANYONE REMEMBER IT?DOES ANYONE KNOW THE ACTUAL 
  SANKRIT OR PALI THAT THE BUDDHA WOULD HAVE AQCTUALLY SPOKEN THIS? WHAT IS 
  THE VERSE IN HIS LANGUAGE?To subscribe, send 
  a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: 
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and 
  click 'Join This Group!' 
  


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Rumi






, thank you .

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  benjaminccollins 
  To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
  
  Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 4:31 PM
  Subject: [FairfieldLife] Rumi
  A baby pigeon stands on the edge of a nest all day.Then 
  he hears a whistle, Come to me.How could he not fly toward that?Wings 
  tear through the body's robe whena letter arrives that says,"You've 
  flapped and fluttered against limits long enough.You've been a bird 
  without wingsin a house without doors or windows.Compassion builds 
  a door.Restlessness cuts a key.Ask. Step off into air like a 
  baby bird.Strut proudly into sunlight,not looking back.Take 
  sips of this pure wine being poured.Don't mind that you've been given a 
  dirty 
  cup." -- 
  Version by Coleman Barks 
   
  "These Branching Moments," 
   
  Copper Beech Press, 1988To subscribe, send a 
  message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and 
  click 'Join This Group!' 
  


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: where Maharishi went wrong

I've got a serious question for everybody and no
implicit criticism is meant and I'm also curious if
there is a legitimate/valid, whatever reason, someone
can come up with that I'm not quite getting. Why do we
need any story whatsoever regarding MMY? We can
neither confirm nor disconfirm any story. The
arguments go on and on. Most of our stories whether in
the pro or con camp are simply narratives of what we
already believe. All we have is our own experiences
regarding MMY. The stories can never, ever resolve;
they never make sense unless you deny huge chunks of
contradictory material. So, why and what is this need
that some, all, a few, including moi, struggle with?
-Peter

--- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I had a similar (but not exactly the same) set of
 insights
 not long ago, Jim, while sitting at one of my
 favorite cafes
 here in Paris.  I'll try to find it and post it
 here.  It's
 fascinating that such things must be in the air
 right now,
 and are being picked up on by people who cared (and
 still
 care, despite everything) for Maharishi.
 
 Unc
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 wrote:
  After thinking over the last day about where
 Maharishi went wrong, 
 I 
  have reached the following conclusions:
  
  He starts out as a naive Indian student and
 seeker. By naive I mean 
 he 
  knows very little about the West, or the rest of
 the world outside 
  India. I suspect too that he was probably kind of
 a geek as a 
  householder, physics student and all...
  
  He is fortunate through his seeking to find
 Brahmananda Saraswati, 
 and 
  commences his study with him. He also decides he
 will be a celibate 
  monk, etc. Through his association with Guru Dev,
 he derives a 
 clear 
  understanding of Reality, and finds he can speak
 about it clearly 
 too.
  
  I think what was going on here was a couple of
 things: Maharishi 
 comes 
  from India where Hinduism and the knowledge of the
 Veda are 
 relatively 
  commonplace. When I think about his early
 exposition of his 
 teaching, 
  there is not a lot of content, just some mantras
 and their proper 
 use, 
  derived from his closeness to Guru Dev. 
  
  Profound knowledge to be sure, though something
 which could be 
 derived 
  relatively quickly with the proper guidance, if
 one is already 
  operating within a supportive cultural context for
 such knowledge. 
  Combine this with his ability to speak well, and
 possessing a 
  charismatic personality, and who emerges?
 Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.
  
  Then as he spreads his message and the knowledge
 of the mantras, 
  absorbed by him from Guru Dev, he enjoys enormous
 success. The 
 success 
  is due to him having a systematic and practical
 technique to back 
 up 
  his speaking. However, he remains a naive monk
 from India. He also 
 has 
  the ambition to enlighten the world. Given his
 experience up til 
 then, 
  and 'cooking' in Guru Dev's presence for years, it
 seems a 
 reasonable 
  ambition.
  
  As he becomes more and more successful, beyond his
 wildest dreams I 
 am 
  sure, he begins to see that those around him are
 granting him 
  unlimited power over them. He now begins to equate
 the rudimentary 
  knowledge that he has perfected, the teaching of
 TM mantras, with 
  himself. He also sees that to ever admit that he
 is less than 
 perfect 
  will possibly jeopardize his teaching amongst his
 followers, and 
  consequently his ambition to enlighten the world.
  
  Here we come to the good part: So now, Maharishi
 finds himself in a 
  position where he has a lot of power, unfulfilled
 desires, and 
 little 
  knowledge about the West. A potentially explosive
 combo for sure.
  
  He begins to act out his unfulfilled desires for
 sex and hobnobbing 
  with the rich and powerful; pretty common desires
 in the world. At 
 the 
  same time, he is aware from the feedback he has
 received that he is 
  seen as a realized Master (and he is probably
 pretty high on 
 himself 
  at this point too...). 
  
  This sets up the key quandry for Maharishi:
  If he acts on his desires and is open about it, he
 will disappoint 
 the 
  vision of himself that his followers, and he
 himself, has of 
 himself, 
  Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, the celibate monk. If he
 doesn't act on his 
  desires, this 'guru' business just isn't all that
 much fun, is it?
  
  So he makes his fatal mistake: He will act on his
 desires for sex 
 and 
  hobnobbing with the rich, only he won't admit it
 to his public, and 
  possibly not to himself as time goes on...
  
  And it works for awhile, however unbeknownst to
 Maharishi, Guru Dev 
  has planted a time bomb of sorts associated with
 this type of 
  deception. 
  
  Unlike a businessman or politician who indulges in
 the abuse of 
 power, 
  the sins of a meditator, including Maharishi, will
 come to light 
 more 
  quickly with far more devastating consequences,
 for the simple 
 reason 
  that the use of the TM

[FairfieldLife] Re: where Maharishi went wrong

I wrote my piece to make sense to me what was going on. Self serving? 
Yes. 'Big picture' significance= zip.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I've got a serious question for everybody and no
 implicit criticism is meant and I'm also curious if
 there is a legitimate/valid, whatever reason, someone
 can come up with that I'm not quite getting. Why do we
 need any story whatsoever regarding MMY? We can
 neither confirm nor disconfirm any story. The
 arguments go on and on. Most of our stories whether in
 the pro or con camp are simply narratives of what we
 already believe. All we have is our own experiences
 regarding MMY. The stories can never, ever resolve;
 they never make sense unless you deny huge chunks of
 contradictory material. So, why and what is this need
 that some, all, a few, including moi, struggle with?
 -Peter





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[FairfieldLife] New Files on Projet René Guénon

2005-05-16 Thread Radu Iliescu

New Files on Projet René Guénon

01. Frithjof Schuon, Gnosis  engl.

http://elkorg-projects.blogspot.com/2005/05/frithjof-schuon-gnosis.html


02. Three excerpts from the writings of Nicholas
Berdyaev - engl.

http://elkorg-projects.blogspot.com/2005/05/three-excerpts-from-writings-of.html


03. René Guénon, Extrait de lettre à Julius Evola 
fr.

http://elkorg-projects.blogspot.com/2005/05/ren-gunon-extrait-de-lettre-julius.html


04. Vasile Lovinescu, Scrisoare, (fragment)  rom.

http://elkorg-projects.blogspot.com/2005/05/vasile-lovinescu-scrisoare.html


05. Godeleine Lafargue Dickès, René Guenon et Jacques
Maritain : deux manières dêtre antimoderne, (texte
intégral)  fr.

http://elkorg-projects.blogspot.com/2005/05/godeleine-lafargue-dicks-ren-guenon-et.html


06. René Guénon, Carta a Malcom de Chazal, (excerpto)
 esp.

http://elkorg-projects.blogspot.com/2005/05/ren-gunon-carta-malcom-de-chazal.html


07. Vasile Lovinescu, Despre negarea lui Dumnezeu,
(fragment)  rom.

http://elkorg-projects.blogspot.com/2005/05/vasile-lovinescu-despre-negarea-lui.html


08. René Guénon, Introduction générale à létude des
doctrines hindoues, (note de lectura)  fr.

http://elkorg-projects.blogspot.com/2005/05/ren-gunon-introduction-gnrale-ltude.html


09. Andrew Webster, Edmund Burke Legacy, (full text) 
engl.

http://elkorg-projects.blogspot.com/2005/05/andrew-webster-edmund-burke-legacy.html


10. Julius Evola, On Jihad and Holy War, (excerpt) 
engl.

http://elkorg-projects.blogspot.com/2005/05/julius-evola-on-jihad-and-holy-war.html


11. Bibliography Osman Bakar  engl.

http://elkorg-projects.blogspot.com/2005/05/bibliography-osman-bakar.html


12. René Guénon, Extraits de lettres à F. G. Galvao 
fr.

http://elkorg-projects.blogspot.com/2005/05/ren-gunon-extraits-de-lettres-f-g.html


13. René Guénon, Notes on the End of a World,
(excerpt)  engl.

http://elkorg-projects.blogspot.com/2005/05/ren-gunon-notes-on-end-of-world.html


14. Martin Lings, Quest-ce que le soufisme?, (note de
lectura)  fr.

http://elkorg-projects.blogspot.com/2005/05/martin-lings-quest-ce-que-le-soufisme.html


15. Bill White, Radical Traditionalism, (full text) 
engl.

http://elkorg-projects.blogspot.com/2005/05/bill-white-radical-traditionalism-full.html


16. René Guénon, Extractos de cartas a Guido de
Giorgio  esp.

http://elkorg-projects.blogspot.com/2005/05/ren-gunon-extractos-de-cartas-guido-de.html


17. Camara Laye, Lenfant noir, (note de lectura) -
fr.

http://elkorg-projects.blogspot.com/2005/05/camara-laye-lenfant-noir-note-de.html


18. Horia-Radu Patapievici, Omul recent, (note de
lectura)  rom.

http://elkorg-projects.blogspot.com/2005/05/horia-radu-patapievici-omul-recent.html

All the best,
Radu Iliescu


'Jewels are stones, but cannot be found everywhere; the sandal tree is a tree, 
but does not grow in every forest; as there are many elephants, but only one 
king elephant, so there are human beings all over the world, but the real human 
being is rarely to be found.' (a sanskrit poet)








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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: where Maharishi went wrong


On May 16, 2005, at 5:56 PM, Peter Sutphen wrote:

 The stories can never, ever resolve;
 they never make sense unless you deny huge chunks of
 contradictory material. So, why and what is this need
 that some, all, a few, including moi, struggle with?

The answers simple: we were never told the story in the first place.

One thing I expect from a teacher is for him or her to share their 
story--not necessarily the details of their personal life, but the 
important parts of their own spiritual life. Where they learned 
teachings, what they learned, what they'll share and what they won't; 
who they learned it from and what that meant to them -- their own 
experiences of the View, the Path and the Goal.

I really think these are normal things to expect. It's only in the 
spiritual supermarket or where there's something to hide (or both) that 
we are deprived. When these things are lacking, one will always be left 
wondering why these things are missing.



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[FairfieldLife] Re: where Maharishi went wrong

2005-05-16 Thread wayback71

I think stories are made up of a sequence of cause and effect events.   People 
love to have 
a sense of cause and effect, because without that, they get nervous - nervous 
that maybe 
they cannot control things by their own actions and good sense.  People need 
one foot on 
the intial cause, and the other foot straddles a gap of empty space and lands 
on the effect.  
If either foot is not touching ground, they fall into a chasm of... nothing, 
chaos, no I 
controlling this life and the horrors it can inflict.

I work with children aqnd families in a school- especially with kids with 
learning 
disabilities and behavior problems.  When the going gets tough, it is amazing 
how quickly 
teachers fall back on the old if only his parents would..., he 
would not be this 
way  (he would do his homework be polite, sit quietly, wahtever) They get over 
it, but it 
seems instinctive in times of conflict and worry to locate very specifically 
that cause.

It is a huge conflict to realize that your Master has a human side.  A relative 
nervous 
system on autopilot living out its own inevitable sequenceof events, just as 
you are.   
That is the story I am telling myself lately. For me, it feels good to 
sometimes get to a 
feeling of forgiveness of Maharishi's humanity.  That's the part of the story 
that I like.  But 
the early stuff  -  MMY as a young man, etc. just tires me out.  As you say, we 
will never 
know it.  Can't find the cause and effects there - so I use the story of the 
relative nervous 
system etc. to acccount for the disappointments while I hold on to all the 
incredible 
spiritual benefits.  And if everyuthing really does happen as it should, well 
M's behavior 
and my responses to it - doubts and all - areall  just inevitable events.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I've got a serious question for everybody and no
 implicit criticism is meant and I'm also curious if
 there is a legitimate/valid, whatever reason, someone
 can come up with that I'm not quite getting. Why do we
 need any story whatsoever regarding MMY? We can
 neither confirm nor disconfirm any story. The
 arguments go on and on. Most of our stories whether in
 the pro or con camp are simply narratives of what we
 already believe. All we have is our own experiences
 regarding MMY. The stories can never, ever resolve;
 they never make sense unless you deny huge chunks of
 contradictory material. So, why and what is this need
 that some, all, a few, including moi, struggle with?
 -Peter
 
 --- TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  I had a similar (but not exactly the same) set of
  insights
  not long ago, Jim, while sitting at one of my
  favorite cafes
  here in Paris.  I'll try to find it and post it
  here.  It's
  fascinating that such things must be in the air
  right now,
  and are being picked up on by people who cared (and
  still
  care, despite everything) for Maharishi.
  
  Unc
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   After thinking over the last day about where
  Maharishi went wrong, 
  I 
   have reached the following conclusions:
   
   He starts out as a naive Indian student and
  seeker. By naive I mean 
  he 
   knows very little about the West, or the rest of
  the world outside 
   India. I suspect too that he was probably kind of
  a geek as a 
   householder, physics student and all...
   
   He is fortunate through his seeking to find
  Brahmananda Saraswati, 
  and 
   commences his study with him. He also decides he
  will be a celibate 
   monk, etc. Through his association with Guru Dev,
  he derives a 
  clear 
   understanding of Reality, and finds he can speak
  about it clearly 
  too.
   
   I think what was going on here was a couple of
  things: Maharishi 
  comes 
   from India where Hinduism and the knowledge of the
  Veda are 
  relatively 
   commonplace. When I think about his early
  exposition of his 
  teaching, 
   there is not a lot of content, just some mantras
  and their proper 
  use, 
   derived from his closeness to Guru Dev. 
   
   Profound knowledge to be sure, though something
  which could be 
  derived 
   relatively quickly with the proper guidance, if
  one is already 
   operating within a supportive cultural context for
  such knowledge. 
   Combine this with his ability to speak well, and
  possessing a 
   charismatic personality, and who emerges?
  Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.
   
   Then as he spreads his message and the knowledge
  of the mantras, 
   absorbed by him from Guru Dev, he enjoys enormous
  success. The 
  success 
   is due to him having a systematic and practical
  technique to back 
  up 
   his speaking. However, he remains a naive monk
  from India. He also 
  has 
   the ambition to enlighten the world. Given his
  experience up til 
  then, 
   and 'cooking' in Guru Dev's presence for years, it
  seems a 
  reasonable 
   ambition.
   
   As he

[FairfieldLife] Re: where Maharishi went wrong

2005-05-16 Thread mrfishey2001




.. So, why and what is this need
 that some, all, a few, including moi, struggle with?
 -Peter

Good questions Peter, made especially sincere by including yourself in 
the mix. 

HereÕs one version. I am of the generation becoming aware of eastern 
thought, embodied so richly by MMY, in the mid to late 60Õs. I was 
young, curious and born with an innate feeling for something larger 
than the world I was given. I read Christopher Isherwood like a 
starved castaway and spent long periods of time effortlessly alone. I 
searched alone, outside the violent world that made up my life. I 
looked for a way to understand. When finally beginning the practice of 
TM I was ripe for transformation. 

In the years that followed I moved on a course of action probably not 
unlike many here. It was in these years, and under these unusual 
circumstances, that the root growth of a deeply expansive spiritual 
life took hold. As my life filled with exotic thoughts and locations, 
the unbridled sense of purpose we all had for spiritually rebuilding 
our world began. This seamless wedding of purpose and identity feel 
upon one life, mine, in such a way as to become the content of the 
very soul inside. 

Now, decades later, with the roots still intact, that which grew as a 
result feels a kind of spiritual sorrow. For those born without the 
economic or genetic endowment necessary to pursue an advanced degree, 
or cultivate alternative relationships that might make understanding 
this sorrow easier, we spin tales. We read about the lives and 
thoughts of others, hoping perhaps to catch a glimpse of how others 
have made a similar peace. For some, we think, we work and we live in 
the echo of a wondrous time.

The richness of those early years IÕm afraid will remain at my side 
for a lifetime. Nothing from that time do I regret, certainly nothing 
I would do differently. In fact I would do it all over again. The day 
of initiation lives in my heart as though it had just happened. 
Perhaps it is the same for you... as you were there with me. 

I hope this is of some




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk 
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...but according to the poster, Gratzon didn't offer MMY 
his income, he offered him his money or all of his 
stock 
 in 
Telegroup.  Both his money (and, yes, there may be a bit 
 that 
represented income in there) and his Telegroup stock were 
  assets 
which he could donate to charity as he saw fit.

I'm not an accountant but I don't think there is a 
restriction 
  on 
how much of one's assets one can give a recognized charity 
  (giving 
to individuals is an entirely different matter...that can 
  trigger a 
gift tax if the annual gift is more than $11,000).  Yes, 
there 
  is a 
limit on how much of that gift can be deducted against 
adjusted 
gross income each year (I think you've got 6 years to deduct 
 it, 
each year a maximum of 20% of AGI), but I don't think 
there's a 
limit to have much of your assets you can donate.
   
   ***
   
   The stock was Gratzon's from day one, as he founded Telegroup, 
so 
  the 
   gains in the stock price (from zip, which is what he paid) to 
   whatever value the stock had when he parted with it, would 
have 
  been 
   subject to capital gains tax, and the 50% limit on 
deductability 
   would have applied.
  
 
 
  ...but you said it was a 50% limit on income.  Capital gain is 
  not income.
 *
 
 Yeah, it is:
 
 One very important point to understand about capital gains income 
is 
 that, to determine your normal tax bracket for capital gains, your 
 capital gain income is added to your regular income and you use 
the 
 total... not just the portion related to your earned income. Then 
 you're able to use Schedule D to compute your tax using a 
preferred 
 tax rate on your long-term capital gain.
 
 http://www.fool.com/taxes/2001/taxes010105.htm

Read what you quote above: it refers to income from capital gains 
as capital gains income which has a different rate than regular 
taxable income.  When one refers just to the word income it must 
necessarily refer to regular taxable income.

That's why you need to make a distinction.




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: where Maharishi went wrong

I hear ya Mrfishey, I hear ya!

--- mrfishey2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 
 .. So, why and what is this need
  that some, all, a few, including moi, struggle
 with?
  -Peter
 
 Good questions Peter, made especially sincere by
 including yourself in 
 the mix. 
 
 HereÕs one version. I am of the generation becoming
 aware of eastern 
 thought, embodied so richly by MMY, in the mid to
 late 60Õs. I was 
 young, curious and born with an innate feeling for
 something larger 
 than the world I was given. I read Christopher
 Isherwood like a 
 starved castaway and spent long periods of time
 effortlessly alone. I 
 searched alone, outside the violent world that made
 up my life. I 
 looked for a way to understand. When finally
 beginning the practice of 
 TM I was ripe for transformation. 
 
 In the years that followed I moved on a course of
 action probably not 
 unlike many here. It was in these years, and under
 these unusual 
 circumstances, that the root growth of a deeply
 expansive spiritual 
 life took hold. As my life filled with exotic
 thoughts and locations, 
 the unbridled sense of purpose we all had for
 spiritually rebuilding 
 our world began. This seamless wedding of purpose
 and identity feel 
 upon one life, mine, in such a way as to become the
 content of the 
 very soul inside. 
 
 Now, decades later, with the roots still intact,
 that which grew as a 
 result feels a kind of spiritual sorrow. For those
 born without the 
 economic or genetic endowment necessary to pursue an
 advanced degree, 
 or cultivate alternative relationships that might
 make understanding 
 this sorrow easier, we spin tales. We read about the
 lives and 
 thoughts of others, hoping perhaps to catch a
 glimpse of how others 
 have made a similar peace. For some, we think, we
 work and we live in 
 the echo of a wondrous time.
 
 The richness of those early years IÕm afraid will
 remain at my side 
 for a lifetime. Nothing from that time do I regret,
 certainly nothing 
 I would do differently. In fact I would do it all
 over again. The day 
 of initiation lives in my heart as though it had
 just happened. 
 Perhaps it is the same for you... as you were there
 with me. 
 
 I hope this is of some
 
 
 
 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Kaplan's money