[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> But to claim that there is some current and persistent government 
> campaign against the TMO without any evidence (and there is plenty 
> of evidence that the govt gives millions to the TMO and MUM in grant 
> money, etc) is just the sign of a defective brain and personality.

It would probably be interesting to know *why* Hagelin
asserted there were dirty government dealings involving
TM, before dismissing his claims out of hand.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Are you suggesting that the largest new age organization of the
> 70's wasn't a target of the most fanatical evangelical Christian 
> president we'd ever had?

Oh, PLEASE.  Jimmy Carter is *not* a "fanatic" by any
stretch of the imagination.  To the contrary, he embodies
the very best of Christian fundamentalism and lives his 
faith in a way few on this forum could claim to emulate.

That's not to say he didn't have serious problems with
TM, but it wasn't a function of "fanticism."






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[bob_brigante]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
 
> > wrote:
> > > Hagelin told me he had taken it as far as he was willing to 
take 
> it 
> > at this time, having 
> > > recently "stuck his neck out" quite a lot.
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > That really sounds like a load -- Hagelin has made it clear for 
> years 
> > that he is one of the hardest hard-liners in insisting 
> that "purity" 
> > must be maintained in the domes -- I'm sure you remember his 
2001 
> > article in the Fairfield Weekly reader:
> > 
> > http://geocities.com/bbrigante/funeral.html#beanie
> 
> 
> Gosh, I missed that one, Bob, it's a classic.
> 
> I can't believe that Hagelin said the following:
> 
> "Finally, I discovered quite by surprise during my political 
> campaign, that our government has been involved in some fairly 
shady 
> practices, intended to undermine our strength and our community -- 
> activities that began during the Carter administration and that 
> continue to this day. This is another reason I feel so protective 
of 
> our precious community, against divisive influences -- no matter 
how 
> innocent they seem. Our strength is the foundation for future 
> generations."
> 
> If ever a major newspaper or media outlet does an expose on the 
TMO 
> (and it's inevitable...the only thing that will prevent it is the 
> utter non-interest in TM that exists in the world today), I'd love 
> for some reporter to ask Hagelin: could you give us the evidence, 
> proof or documentation of anything that will demonstrate 
> these "shady practises", Doctor La Rouche...I mean, Hagelin?
>


**

Well, Mr. Peanut, our beloved Prez Jimmy (my sister was a faith-
healer) Carter, did have a hard-on against TM and did task the intel 
community to get the dirt on the TMO, but given the near-total 
incompetence of American intel agencies (WMD was a "slam-dunk" in 
Iraq said the CIA), I'm sure that nothing harmful was ever generated 
by these efforts, which were undoubtedly abandoned quickly after 
peanut head left office (Reagan and his VP Bush were both friendly 
to the Beach Boys (Reagan lived next door to the Beach Boys in Bel 
Air, a rich section of LA), two of who were TM teachers, which makes 
it unlikely they shared Carter's antipathy).

But to claim that there is some current and persistent government 
campaign against the TMO without any evidence (and there is plenty 
of evidence that the govt gives millions to the TMO and MUM in grant 
money, etc) is just the sign of a defective brain and personality. 
Hagelin is clever in those parts of his brain which deal with math 
and physics, but like an autistic savant, lacks the general 
intelligence to keep him from doing stupid things like appearing in 
a movie produced by Ramtha.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver"  
> > wrote:
> > > Hagelin told me he had taken it as far as he was willing to take 
> it 
> > at this time, having 
> > > recently "stuck his neck out" quite a lot.
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > That really sounds like a load -- Hagelin has made it clear for 
> years 
> > that he is one of the hardest hard-liners in insisting 
> that "purity" 
> > must be maintained in the domes -- I'm sure you remember his 2001 
> > article in the Fairfield Weekly reader:
> > 
> > http://geocities.com/bbrigante/funeral.html#beanie
> 
> 
> Gosh, I missed that one, Bob, it's a classic.
> 
> I can't believe that Hagelin said the following:
> 
> "Finally, I discovered quite by surprise during my political 
> campaign, that our government has been involved in some fairly shady 
> practices, intended to undermine our strength and our community -- 
> activities that began during the Carter administration and that 
> continue to this day. This is another reason I feel so protective of 
> our precious community, against divisive influences -- no matter how 
> innocent they seem. Our strength is the foundation for future 
> generations."
> 
> If ever a major newspaper or media outlet does an expose on the TMO 
> (and it's inevitable...the only thing that will prevent it is the 
> utter non-interest in TM that exists in the world today), I'd love 
> for some reporter to ask Hagelin: could you give us the evidence, 
> proof or documentation of anything that will demonstrate 
> these "shady practises", Doctor La Rouche...I mean, Hagelin?
>

Are you suggesting that the largest new age organization of the 70's wasn't a 
target of the 
most fanatical evangelical Christian president we'd ever had?





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[FairfieldLife] Re: It is not fear, but love, that creates law and order.

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 8/24/06 8:31 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> >> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> >> 
> >> > , Rick Archer  wrote:
> >>> >> 
> >>> >> on 8/24/06 7:33 PM, bob_brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>> >>   wrote:
> >>> >> 
> >> > MMY in the 23Aug2006 press conference at mou.org:
> >> > 
> >> > "It is not fear, but love, that creates law and order."
> >>> >> 
> >>> >> Never did walk his talk.
> >>> >> 
> >> > 
> >> > So all he ever did was intimidate people?
> > 
> No, but he structured an atmosphere in which there was plenty of
> intimidation and fear, as well as good stuff. Mixed bag.
>

Unlike other spiritual organizations, eh?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver"  
> wrote:
> > Hagelin told me he had taken it as far as he was willing to take 
it 
> at this time, having 
> > recently "stuck his neck out" quite a lot.
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> That really sounds like a load -- Hagelin has made it clear for 
years 
> that he is one of the hardest hard-liners in insisting 
that "purity" 
> must be maintained in the domes -- I'm sure you remember his 2001 
> article in the Fairfield Weekly reader:
> 
> http://geocities.com/bbrigante/funeral.html#beanie


Gosh, I missed that one, Bob, it's a classic.

I can't believe that Hagelin said the following:

"Finally, I discovered quite by surprise during my political 
campaign, that our government has been involved in some fairly shady 
practices, intended to undermine our strength and our community -- 
activities that began during the Carter administration and that 
continue to this day. This is another reason I feel so protective of 
our precious community, against divisive influences -- no matter how 
innocent they seem. Our strength is the foundation for future 
generations."

If ever a major newspaper or media outlet does an expose on the TMO 
(and it's inevitable...the only thing that will prevent it is the 
utter non-interest in TM that exists in the world today), I'd love 
for some reporter to ask Hagelin: could you give us the evidence, 
proof or documentation of anything that will demonstrate 
these "shady practises", Doctor La Rouche...I mean, Hagelin?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: It is not fear, but love, that creates law and order.

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 8/24/06 8:31 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> >> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> >> 
> >> > , Rick Archer  wrote:
> >>> >> 
> >>> >> on 8/24/06 7:33 PM, bob_brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>> >>   wrote:
> >>> >> 
> >> > MMY in the 23Aug2006 press conference at mou.org:
> >> > 
> >> > "It is not fear, but love, that creates law and 
order."
> >>> >> 
> >>> >> Never did walk his talk.
> >>> >> 
> >> > 
> >> > So all he ever did was intimidate people?
> > 
> No, but he structured an atmosphere in which there was plenty of
> intimidation and fear, as well as good stuff. Mixed bag.
>
Yeah, God does the same thing, the bastard...





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Subs give Israel insurance in N bomb attacks

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "mathatbrahman" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "mathatbrahman"  
wrote:
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/psk5t
> 
> --- ---
>
I'd suggest this instead. Makes a lot more sense- cheaper too!

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/





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[FairfieldLife] Re: SO WHAT's THE SCOOP ? ? ?

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings  
> wrote:
> >
> > I can't keep up with all the posts right now in FFL, but does 
anyone 
> > have the low-down on how the course is going? 
> > 
> > I heard good things...
> > 
> > ...but are there a lot of people in FF, DC, and elsewhere???
> > 
> > Has MMY said anything different or interesting than has been 
said 
> > before??? 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> On the press conference of 23Aug2006, showing now on mou.org, MMY 
says 
> that ordinary non-millionaire types should gather together and 
create 
> their own flying-hall communities around the world.>>

Is this a mis-qoute?
Or are there actually, in existence, 'extra-ordinary non-
millionaires', as opposed to 'ordinary millionaires' ?

In addition...did he mention how "non-millionaires" can afford to 
leave their careers and homes to burnfor this "save the world 
again course".AFTER HIS "heaven on earth" endless 
claims???

OffWorld







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

< recently "stuck his neck out" quite a lot.
> 
> I do not at this time feel any impulse toward further action, 
although that could change in 
> the future, of course.
> 
> I promised myself when I was excommunicated that when I went back 
into the Dome it 
> could only be one way: straight up and clean. In one sense that 
means no recanting or 
> grovelling, but it also means being in a state of equanimity with 
respect to the outcome. 
> When I feel a true impulse to act I will do so, but I am OK biding 
my time, even if it means 
> another 12 years.
> 
> L B S>>>

Yea, but you're a nice guy...and I AM NOTI don't need 
anyone... or any "Maharishi".or any "GOD"or any 
Domeever !!!

(I appreciate MMY's program.as THE best thing...but I do not 
believe in his "ALL KNOWING"... just as he does not)...\
...But, I do believe it is time to nail the final nail in the coffin 
of the small mind. 
I cannot accept it...
I would be HAPPY...to be at risk of "getting my neck CUT 
OFF"never mind "sticking it out" !...by the... Maharishiif 
such he be  in order to insist that he looks at the photos of 
those refusedand then decide. 
I am 1000% sure that LBS would be accepted by MMY if he saw LBS.
1000 is an understatement.

Why is john Hagelin a coward???
What is he afraid of???

...that I AM NOT AFRAID OF???!!!

Why is john Hagelin a coward???
What is he afraid of???

...answer this

OffWorld









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[FairfieldLife] Re: SO WHAT's THE SCOOP ? ? ?

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings  
> wrote:
> >
> > I can't keep up with all the posts right now in FFL, but does anyone 
> > have the low-down on how the course is going? 
> > 
> > I heard good things...
> > 
> > ...but are there a lot of people in FF, DC, and elsewhere???
> > 
> > Has MMY said anything different or interesting than has been said 
> > before??? 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> On the press conference of 23Aug2006, showing now on mou.org, MMY says 
> that ordinary non-millionaire types should gather together and create 
> their own flying-hall communities around the world.
>

I guess then they can Blacklist each other. 

JohnY
former vedic serf (non millionaire type)
 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[bob_brigante]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> Hagelin told me he had taken it as far as he was willing to take it 
at this time, having 
> recently "stuck his neck out" quite a lot.
> 



That really sounds like a load -- Hagelin has made it clear for years 
that he is one of the hardest hard-liners in insisting that "purity" 
must be maintained in the domes -- I'm sure you remember his 2001 
article in the Fairfield Weekly reader:

http://geocities.com/bbrigante/funeral.html#beanie 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: SO WHAT's THE SCOOP ? ? ?

[bob_brigante]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> I can't keep up with all the posts right now in FFL, but does anyone 
> have the low-down on how the course is going? 
> 
> I heard good things...
> 
> ...but are there a lot of people in FF, DC, and elsewhere???
> 
> Has MMY said anything different or interesting than has been said 
> before??? 
> 



On the press conference of 23Aug2006, showing now on mou.org, MMY says 
that ordinary non-millionaire types should gather together and create 
their own flying-hall communities around the world.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: (((...???

[curtisdeltablues]

Dude, this is cyber-Cheers.  You have been heard.  Tomorrow is another
day.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>   ((...
> ... 'scuse me...apologies aforehand...but I'm in a BAD mood (and I'm 
> allowed that)... because I just had to quit a job (that I don't need 
> for the money ), out of principal, ...I am glad I did it))
> 
> BUT...
> 
> WHY...OH WHYdoes "Up thread" not..GO!!! 'up thread'..?
> 
> and WHY...OH WHY...do my messages take HOURS to post.
> 
> ( apologies...BAD HAIR DAY AS WELL ! ! ! .although that is almost 
> everyday for me)
> 
> OffWorldBeings
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[L B Shriver]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


snip

> Well LB, it's good to be number 1 (VBG for the humor impaired).
> I hope you're not really disappointed, and having fun.



Well, I didn't make it to Woodstock, either, but I don't lay awake nights 
wondering if my life 
would be perfect now if I'd just been a bit more ambitious about finding a ride.

L B S







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[FairfieldLife] (((...???

[off_world_beings]

  ((...
... 'scuse me...apologies aforehand...but I'm in a BAD mood (and I'm 
allowed that)... because I just had to quit a job (that I don't need 
for the money ), out of principal, ...I am glad I did it))

BUT...

WHY...OH WHYdoes "Up thread" not..GO!!! 'up thread'..?

and WHY...OH WHY...do my messages take HOURS to post.

( apologies...BAD HAIR DAY AS WELL ! ! ! .although that is almost 
everyday for me)

OffWorldBeings 
 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[L B Shriver]

Reply below.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> --- L B Shriver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "bmorry2000"
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > "They are letting everyone in the dome--except
> > LB."  is exactly what 
> > > I heard from my marginally on the program friends.
> > 
> > snip
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > It's such a weird world. Apparently there are
> > actually quite a few people still being rejected, 
> > but my case is (I am told) The Gold Standard.
> > 
> > If they knew how much it would improve their PR to
> > let me in, I'd be in in a heartbeat.
> > 
> > But they don't.
> > 
> > L B S
> 
> Their loss, L.B.. Why don't you tell John to call MMY
> and ask him if you should be let in the dome? You
> could tell John that he is in no position to accept
> the karma of blocking the good intent of someone who
> wants to get in the dome. Only MMY can decide that. On
> an ATR ('77) I was on many moons ago, someones mother
> was being blocked from attending TTC because she
> taught asanas. When MMY came to see us her son told
> MMY directly about the situation he was surprised. He
> said outloud something like: She can't go to TTC
> because she's teaching asanas? He acted like it was
> the stupidest decision he had ever heard. He turned to
> his secretary and told him to fix it. His mom got on
> TTC right away.



Hagelin told me he had taken it as far as he was willing to take it at this 
time, having 
recently "stuck his neck out" quite a lot.

I do not at this time feel any impulse toward further action, although that 
could change in 
the future, of course.

I promised myself when I was excommunicated that when I went back into the Dome 
it 
could only be one way: straight up and clean. In one sense that means no 
recanting or 
grovelling, but it also means being in a state of equanimity with respect to 
the outcome. 
When I feel a true impulse to act I will do so, but I am OK biding my time, 
even if it means 
another 12 years.

L B S






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[FairfieldLife] SO WHAT's THE SCOOP ? ? ?

[off_world_beings]

I can't keep up with all the posts right now in FFL, but does anyone 
have the low-down on how the course is going? 

I heard good things...

...but are there a lot of people in FF, DC, and elsewhere???

Has MMY said anything different or interesting than has been said 
before??? 

(  is it  HOE and EOW [end of world] at one and the same time or 
what??? )

What are course participants expiencing?anything new?...or the 
same old (wannabbeee enlightened) moodmaking???

Gather your reports here please...for all to see.

OffWorld






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[FairfieldLife] Subs give Israel insurance in N bomb attacks

[mathatbrahman]

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "mathatbrahman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/psk5t

--- ---







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[L B Shriver]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jim_flanegin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Big snip

…My partner and I have been noticing 
> among other things how the quality of our dreams has changed since 
> the course began. I also notice the effect of the course during my 
> meditation. Just a livelier time, all around.



I have noticed this change in the quality of dreams also. It's really been 
fascinating to explore 
another, much deeper level of the dreaming mind.

L B S







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[FairfieldLife] Fwd: Andrew Cohen interview with Dzongsar on crushing the ego.

[mathatbrahman]

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "mathatbrahman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

http://www.wie.org/j31/dzongsar.asp?page=2

--- End forwarded message ---







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Fascinating Mayan crop designs.

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 8/24/06 9:54 PM, matrixmonitor at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:---
> > 
> >> > 
> >>
http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2006/etchilhampton/etchilhampton2006a.html
> >> > 
> >> > Crop designs have reached a new level of sophistication this
season.
> > 
> How come most of these happen in the UK? Has anyone ever been caught
in the
> act of making one?
>
Yes, people sometimes, balls of light and other phenomena others. At
least that's what the serious folks who study them say. They disagree
about the percentages of circles made by people versus other things.
One thing that I can say for sure: They weren't made by pundits.

JohnY









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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[off_world_beings]

Lol !
David Hawthorne and Tim Britton got rejected?? !!!
Ridiculous.
Tim's bagpipes are not even of the loud kindthe Irish pipes are 
QUIET compared to the Scottish pipes that MMY loves (and I hate - 
scotsman)

I do believe that they should let LBS into the dome...then...do an 
objective, double-blind study, peer-reviewed in short process, 
andif HE doesn't cause a disturbance ...jeez...let THE REAT 
OF THEM IN !

I'm going to e-mail Hagelin with this proposal.
They need to wake up and get real !

(By the way ...I'd like to get Shiva Ma on the foam. She would LOVE 
it...but that's just me)

OffWorld


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Yeah, that "disruptive" thing is tough to figure out. They are 
claiming that it's the decisive 
> factor in "most" of the rejections, which totalled 16 when I first 
applied a couple of weeks 
> ago. I know 4 or 5 of them personally and still don't get it. For 
example, what's so fucking 
> disruptive about David Hawthorne? I'm sure Tim Britton would leave 
his bagpipes outside 
> if they asked him nicely. Were they expecting Shiva Ma to perform 
homa on the foma? 
> Could it be that David Bousefield was going to ambush CPs with his 
outlaw Deeksha?
> 
> L B S
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "dhamiltony2k5" 
 wrote:
> >
> > presence in the Dome would be "disruptive". 
> > Disruptive?  Hah,it is about MOJO.  Oh heck L B, Bevan just 
thinks 
> > you got more MOJO than Bevan or any Raja worth a million.  It is 
> > pretty obvious.  Yeah, you're just a weapon of mass destruction 
in 
> > their book.
> > 
> > Best Regards fra FF,
> > 
> > -Doug
> > 
> > 
> > Oh BTW, L B, the next time you try to apply they will take you 
to 
> > the library basement where normal people do not go and then show 
you 
> > the 'rack'.  It worked on Galileo. It worked on that wrong 
thinking 
> > before, you'll sing like a bird too recanting everything and 
signing 
> > about anything to git back in.  Appeasement, it did not work 
before 
> > with Hilter either.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
> >  wrote:The resistance to my acceptance is pretty 
> > localized in the upper regions of the
> > administration, although the perception there is that it is more 
> > widespread.
> > Therefore
> > there is some fear that my presence in the Dome would 
> > be "disruptive". 
> > 
> > Doug writing:  oh heck LB, they just think you got more MOJO 
than 
> > Bevan or any Raja worth a million.  It is pretty obvious.
> > 
> > 
> > >
> > > Reply below.
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "dhamiltony2k5" 
> >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > >  "L B Shriver"  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear Friends at FFLife,
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > >  "I was officially informed on Sunday that I am not 
considered 
> > eligible 
> > > > at this time to 
> > > >  participate, after nearly a month of having my 
application "in 
> > > > process"."
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Of course not.  They would have to eat way too much crow to 
let 
> > you in.
> > > > 
> > > > -Doug in FF
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > The resistance to my acceptance is pretty localized in the 
upper 
> > regions of the 
> > > administration, although the perception there is that it is 
more 
> > widespread. Therefore 
> > > there is some fear that my presence in the Dome would 
> > be "disruptive". This is essentially 
> > > the Weapons of Mass Destruction argument—it is convenient, but 
> > doesn't match the facts 
> > > on the ground. They don't perceive that most people would 
rather 
> > have them let me in and 
> > > drop this blacklisting bullshit.
> > > 
> > > Despite that, my application actually did get into the region 
> > where acceptance was a 
> > > possibility. There just wasn't enough momentum behind it to 
carry 
> > it through this time.
> > > 
> > > From my point of view, this situation represents progress, and 
I 
> > believe that if you want 
> > > more of something in life, it's good to show appreciation.
> > > 
> > > L B S
> > >
> >
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Camp Ashraf; another Katyn massacre?

[off_world_beings]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "uns_tressor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> I have learned (and I am not very up to speed) that there is a camp 
> with 5,000 Iranian dissidents due east of Baghdad and 60 miles from 
> the Iranian border.
> 
> Iran are demanding that they are handed over as part of a deal for 
> their non involvement.
> 
> If they get handed over and killed, as seems likely, then would this 
> be a major war crime? Is this issue generally known about? Why have 
> the Americans not put them in a transport aircraft and got them out 
> of the way months or years ago?>>


First of allwhy do you assume they would be killed by Iranians? 
Have you been brainwashed to think that? 
What evidence (specifically) do you have for this?
The only people who are PROVEN to indiscriminantly kill civilians in 
that region recently are the Americans and British.
What on earth makes you think that the Americans remotely care about 
what THEY call the "sand niggers" there? They (as an admistration) 
ONLY care about Jesus believers.
We cannot let them get away with the fundamentalist criminal arrogance 
they clearly showed in the past due to their fundamentalist trbal 
Jesus beliefs. It may be the end of the human race if they are able to 
continue with this childish belief system.

OffWorldBeings






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Fascinating Mayan crop designs.

[Rick Archer]

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Fascinating Mayan crop designs.





on 8/24/06 9:54 PM, matrixmonitor at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:--- 

> http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2006/etchilhampton/etchilhampton2006a.html
> 
> Crop designs have reached a new level of sophistication this season.

How come most of these happen in the UK? Has anyone ever been caught in the act of making one?

__._,_.___





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__,_._,___

[FairfieldLife] The Gene of Civilization

[matrixmonitor]

--- Anunnaki intervention into human evolution:

http://www.darkstar1.co.uk/ASPM.html

"The sudden introduction of ASPM into our genetic lineage occurred
around the time of Anu's state visit to Earth as described by Zecharia
Sitchin.  This occurred around the time of Nibiru's appearance.  Which
means that the passage of Nibiru is intimately connected not just with
our rapid social development and evolution, but with actual physical
changes in our genetic make-up."

--- ---






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: It is not fear, but love, that creates law and order.

[Rick Archer]

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: It is not fear, but love, that creates law and order.





on 8/24/06 8:31 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  
> , Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>> on 8/24/06 7:33 PM, bob_brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>>   wrote:
>> 
> MMY in the 23Aug2006 press conference at mou.org:
> 
> "It is not fear, but love, that creates law and order."
>> 
>> Never did walk his talk.
>> 
> 
> So all he ever did was intimidate people?

No, but he structured an atmosphere in which there was plenty of intimidation and fear, as well as good stuff. Mixed bag.

__._,_.___





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__,_._,___

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[Rick Archer]

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi  /& Guidelines?





on 8/24/06 6:20 PM, dhamiltony2k5 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

So yes, Sounds like Fairfield is one big disintegrating mess.

But only if you equate MUM with FF. FF is much more than MUM, and in my experience, is a great place to live – a thriving, diverse spiritual community.


__._,_.___





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__,_._,___

[FairfieldLife] Fascinating Mayan crop designs.

[matrixmonitor]

--- 

http://www.cropcircleconnector.com/2006/etchilhampton/etchilhampton2006a.html

Crop designs have reached a new level of sophistication this season.

---  ---






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[FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[curtisdeltablues]

Smart.  Kinda shitty that you had to protect yourself from your own
movement, but you were right.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
>  wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the flashback!  I remember at the very end of my TTC they
> > made a point of having us hold the file in our hands but told us not
> > to look.  I didn't know if it was a test or what it was.  I was too
> > afraid, I admire you for looking!  What was it's purpose?  I thought
> > it might be some legal thing that they were fulfilling since they had
> > records on us but we did not work for them as employees. Was it to let
> > us know that they had a file on us? It was a weird moment.  Any TTC
> > teacher care to weigh in?
> > 
>   I kept a separate file with course leaders signatures for all
> testing on TTC. I saw how they screwed up their records, people got
> hassled, and I wanted to be sure I had a duplicate. I still have it. 
> 
>   I started it because they tried to charge extra for the bus ride
> from the airport in Germany to the course in France. Everybody
> refused, but I knew it was going to be trouble. At the end of the
> course, they tried to collect initiation fees for advanced techniques
> that Maharishi had already given. Again everone refused. 1975-76
> Vittel/Barritz.
> 
> JohnY
> 
>
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Gimbel" 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >  (snip)
> > > "Come off it, Judy.  I'd be amazed if they had records going back a 
> > > few 
> > > > years, much less when someone learned TM.  The bit about the 
> > > teacher's 
> > > > name is just more TMO silliness, as anyone could have made up a 
> > > name.  
> > > > Tell you what...next time you apply for a course, make up some
name 
> > > to 
> > > > put in the initiator's blank, and see what happens--I'll bet 
> > > nothing.  
> > > > (The name, of course, would have to be something that doesn't
call 
> > > > attention to itself, could even be the name of an initiator, just 
> > > not 
> > > > *your* initiator.)"
> > > 
> > > I wouldn't at all be surprised, that the movement has kept every 
> > > little peice of paper that has your name on it;
> > > From the very beginning of your involvement with it.
> > > When I was on TTC in 1977, in France;
> > > It seemed at the end, when we were made teachers;
> > > The people handling the paperwork, seemed like mostly Germans;
> > > And we all know about their obsession with record keeping...
> > > I guess Freud called this: "Anal Retentive"
> > > Anyway, they had every paper that I had ever submitted, in my file;
> > > Which I was instructed, not to look at;
> > > But, I to a peek anyway; after all, it was(is) my file, right?
> > > R.G.
> > >
> >
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Black List

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk"  
> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000"  
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000"
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer  
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From a trusted source who knows the score:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > At present 241 have NOT been  accepted to the 3 places 
> (not 
> > > > > Huntsville Ont.)
> > > > > > The number on the black list to the 15th Aug was exactly 
> 343 
> > > rejected
> > > > > > applications. Various reasons, BUT none clearly stated why 
> all 
> > > polite
> > > > > > rejections at this time.
> > > > > 
> > > > > What is the standard line is this time,
> > > > > 
> > > > > 1) It would be better..
> > > > > 
> > > > > 2) Maharshi feels.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 3) Please spend some extra time working at the center with 
> the 
> > > local 
> > > > > governors and apply for the next course
> > > > > 
> > > > > lurk
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > So 2 out of 10 (or so) applicants have been rejected? This is 
> MORE 
> > > open? 
> > > > 
> > > > JohnY
> > > > Vedic-Serf
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Good point.
> > > 
> > > 20% is an incredibly huge number.
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > Guffaw. Up until recently, people were claiming that more than 
> half the sidhas in Fairfield 
> > had been banned or so the comments were suggesting.
> > 
> > 20% isn't that large, given what was being said 6 months ago on 
> this list.
> 
> 
> 
> 20% is incredibly large.
> 
> And the 20% figure is NOT incompatible with the "more than half" 
> figure you cite above.
> 
> Spare Egg, you do realize, don't you, that not all Sidhas live in 
> Fairfield...they are scattered about in places like Tucson, Arizona 
> for example.  So you could have 50% rejected in Fairfield and, say, 
> 10% or 15% rejected elsewhere and this would still come out to 20% 
> overall.
> 
> Do the math, Genius.
>

They, (the TMO in FF) are acting like they have a lot of people to
choose from. This is no longer true. 'Beg, cajole, and have somebody
else pay' will be even less effective for the next course.

JohnY







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[FairfieldLife] Re: It is not fear, but love, that creates law and order.

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 8/24/06 7:33 PM, bob_brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> >> > MMY in the 23Aug2006 press conference at mou.org:
> >> > 
> >> > "It is not fear, but love, that creates law and order."
> 
> Never did walk his talk.
>

I'm glad you said it - I said it nastier and canceled it.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the flashback!  I remember at the very end of my TTC they
> made a point of having us hold the file in our hands but told us not
> to look.  I didn't know if it was a test or what it was.  I was too
> afraid, I admire you for looking!  What was it's purpose?  I thought
> it might be some legal thing that they were fulfilling since they had
> records on us but we did not work for them as employees. Was it to let
> us know that they had a file on us? It was a weird moment.  Any TTC
> teacher care to weigh in?
> 
  I kept a separate file with course leaders signatures for all
testing on TTC. I saw how they screwed up their records, people got
hassled, and I wanted to be sure I had a duplicate. I still have it. 

  I started it because they tried to charge extra for the bus ride
from the airport in Germany to the course in France. Everybody
refused, but I knew it was going to be trouble. At the end of the
course, they tried to collect initiation fees for advanced techniques
that Maharishi had already given. Again everone refused. 1975-76
Vittel/Barritz.

JohnY

   



> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Gimbel" 
> wrote:
> >
> >  (snip)
> > "Come off it, Judy.  I'd be amazed if they had records going back a 
> > few 
> > > years, much less when someone learned TM.  The bit about the 
> > teacher's 
> > > name is just more TMO silliness, as anyone could have made up a 
> > name.  
> > > Tell you what...next time you apply for a course, make up some name 
> > to 
> > > put in the initiator's blank, and see what happens--I'll bet 
> > nothing.  
> > > (The name, of course, would have to be something that doesn't call 
> > > attention to itself, could even be the name of an initiator, just 
> > not 
> > > *your* initiator.)"
> > 
> > I wouldn't at all be surprised, that the movement has kept every 
> > little peice of paper that has your name on it;
> > From the very beginning of your involvement with it.
> > When I was on TTC in 1977, in France;
> > It seemed at the end, when we were made teachers;
> > The people handling the paperwork, seemed like mostly Germans;
> > And we all know about their obsession with record keeping...
> > I guess Freud called this: "Anal Retentive"
> > Anyway, they had every paper that I had ever submitted, in my file;
> > Which I was instructed, not to look at;
> > But, I to a peek anyway; after all, it was(is) my file, right?
> > R.G.
> >
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Adyashanti in Miami

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hey, just saw that Adyashanti is going to be in my
> neck of the woods this weekend. Very clear, nice,
> realized guy. Think I'll go check him out. He hasn't
> stolen any of Earl's money, has he? ;-)

Not yet! :-)





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Black List

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk"  
wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" 
 
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" 
 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In 
FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000"
> > > > >  wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer 
 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From a trusted source who knows the score:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > At present 241 have NOT been  accepted to the 3 places 
> > (not 
> > > > > > Huntsville Ont.)
> > > > > > > The number on the black list to the 15th Aug was 
exactly 
> > 343 
> > > > rejected
> > > > > > > applications. Various reasons, BUT none clearly stated 
why 
> > all 
> > > > polite
> > > > > > > rejections at this time.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > What is the standard line is this time,
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 1) It would be better..
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 2) Maharshi feels.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 3) Please spend some extra time working at the center 
with 
> > the 
> > > > local 
> > > > > > governors and apply for the next course
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > lurk
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > So 2 out of 10 (or so) applicants have been rejected? This 
is 
> > MORE 
> > > > open? 
> > > > > 
> > > > > JohnY
> > > > > Vedic-Serf
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Good point.
> > > > 
> > > > 20% is an incredibly huge number.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Guffaw. Up until recently, people were claiming that more than 
> > half the sidhas in Fairfield 
> > > had been banned or so the comments were suggesting.
> > > 
> > > 20% isn't that large, given what was being said 6 months ago 
on 
> > this list.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 20% is incredibly large.
> > 
> > And the 20% figure is NOT incompatible with the "more than half" 
> > figure you cite above.
> > 
> > Spare Egg, you do realize, don't you, that not all Sidhas live 
in 
> > Fairfield...they are scattered about in places like Tucson, 
Arizona 
> > for example.  So you could have 50% rejected in Fairfield and, 
say, 
> > 10% or 15% rejected elsewhere and this would still come out to 
20% 
> > overall.
> > 
> > Do the math, Genius.
> >
> 
> What you say is true, but how many are being rejected from 
Fairfield, and from elsewhere?
> 
> I'm assuming that most people applying ARE from FF. You're 
assuming that most are not?


I have no idea.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: It is not fear, but love, that creates law and order.

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 8/24/06 7:33 PM, bob_brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> >> > MMY in the 23Aug2006 press conference at mou.org:
> >> > 
> >> > "It is not fear, but love, that creates law and order."
> 
> Never did walk his talk.
>

So all he ever did was intimidate people?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "bmorry2000"  wrote:
> >
> > "They are letting everyone in the dome--except LB."  is exactly what 
> > I heard from my marginally on the program friends.
> 
> snip
> 
> 
> 
> It's such a weird world. Apparently there are actually quite a few
people still being rejected, 
> but my case is (I am told) The Gold Standard.
> 
> If they knew how much it would improve their PR to let me in, I'd be
in in a heartbeat.
> 
> But they don't.
> 
> L B S
>

Well LB, it's good to be number 1 (VBG for the humor impaired).
I hope you're not really disappointed, and having fun.

JohnY 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 8/24/06 1:20 PM, jyouells2000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com

> > , "nablus108"  wrote:
> >> >
> >> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> >>  , "sparaig" 
wrote:
> >>> > >
> >>> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> >>>  , Sal Sunshine

> >> > wrote:
>  > > >
>  > > > Those weren't the kinds of records I was talking about,
obviously.
>  > > > 
>  > > > Any dirt on anyone I'm sure they'd keep somewhere, even any
> >> > alleged 
>  > > > dirt.  For all we know, they probably have a database
somewhere
> >> > on 
>  > > > *future* dirt, and who is most likely to be a contender.
> 
> I don¹t think they keep it in a database. I think they keep file
folders on
> everyone. One friend of mine who applied said they referred to an ad for
> healing services she had placed in the Weekly Reader years ago. I
think they
> actually clipped and saved the ad.
>


File folders! Oh, no,  retro :-) 

JohnY







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Re: [FairfieldLife] It is not fear, but love, that creates law and order.

[Rick Archer]

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] It is not fear, but love, that creates law and order.





on 8/24/06 7:33 PM, bob_brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> MMY in the 23Aug2006 press conference at mou.org:
> 
> "It is not fear, but love, that creates law and order."

Never did walk his talk.

__._,_.___





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__,_._,___

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[Peter]

--- Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> on 8/24/06 4:45 PM, bob_brigante at
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > How loopy is Ramtha?:
> > 
> I have a friend who was in Ramtha for 8 years, and
> who left, as did many
> others, when they all started drinking. The entire
> gang, JZ Knight included,
> would get plastered regularly because Ramtha
> recommended it. Many became
> raging alcoholics.

Some days you're Crazy Wisdom and some day's you're a
f*ckin' alcoholic.



 
> 




__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


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[FairfieldLife] It is not fear, but love, that creates law and order.

[bob_brigante]

MMY in the 23Aug2006 press conference at mou.org:

"It is not fear, but love, that creates law and order."






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Invincible Israel

[bob_brigante]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "suziezuzie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
 "What they (the submarines) are is a very good insurance 
> policy."
>

*

They are not in any way an insurance policy. The nuclear weapons of 
the U.S. are a deterrent of sorts against massive attacks conducted 
by governments, but not against rogue attacks carried out covertly 
(a ship of Liberian registry slips into NY harbor and detonates an 
atomic bomb, provenance unknown -- a private submarine comes to 
within 50 miles of the U.S. coast and pops a cruise missile with 
atomic weapons, time from launch to detonation over D.C., 45 
seconds). 

Israel is a small country and a very small number of nukes launched 
covertly, without the approval or knowledge of the nations from 
which the missiles are launched, could obliterate this country, 
which is as narrow as ten miles wide in some places (as is obvious, 
Lebanon is one of those countries with weak governments which cannot 
control actions of militants within its borders). So there is there 
no real deterrent effect to Israel's nuclear weapons, because you 
can't deter small rogue groups, only governments. Israeli nuclear 
sabre rattling amounts, as author Seymour Hersh suggested in the 
title of his book on Israel's nukes, to being the "Samson option" 
(the blinded Samson knocks down the pillars and kills everybody 
including himself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson )





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Black List

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk"  
> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000"  
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000"
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer  
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From a trusted source who knows the score:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > At present 241 have NOT been  accepted to the 3 places 
> (not 
> > > > > Huntsville Ont.)
> > > > > > The number on the black list to the 15th Aug was exactly 
> 343 
> > > rejected
> > > > > > applications. Various reasons, BUT none clearly stated why 
> all 
> > > polite
> > > > > > rejections at this time.
> > > > > 
> > > > > What is the standard line is this time,
> > > > > 
> > > > > 1) It would be better..
> > > > > 
> > > > > 2) Maharshi feels.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 3) Please spend some extra time working at the center with 
> the 
> > > local 
> > > > > governors and apply for the next course
> > > > > 
> > > > > lurk
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > So 2 out of 10 (or so) applicants have been rejected? This is 
> MORE 
> > > open? 
> > > > 
> > > > JohnY
> > > > Vedic-Serf
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Good point.
> > > 
> > > 20% is an incredibly huge number.
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > Guffaw. Up until recently, people were claiming that more than 
> half the sidhas in Fairfield 
> > had been banned or so the comments were suggesting.
> > 
> > 20% isn't that large, given what was being said 6 months ago on 
> this list.
> 
> 
> 
> 20% is incredibly large.
> 
> And the 20% figure is NOT incompatible with the "more than half" 
> figure you cite above.
> 
> Spare Egg, you do realize, don't you, that not all Sidhas live in 
> Fairfield...they are scattered about in places like Tucson, Arizona 
> for example.  So you could have 50% rejected in Fairfield and, say, 
> 10% or 15% rejected elsewhere and this would still come out to 20% 
> overall.
> 
> Do the math, Genius.
>

What you say is true, but how many are being rejected from Fairfield, and from 
elsewhere?

I'm assuming that most people applying ARE from FF. You're assuming that most 
are not?






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[FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[Alex Stanley]

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "nablus108"  
> wrote:
> Sounds like Fairfield is one big disintegrating mess.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "dhamiltony2k5"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> Yes it does by any numbers you want to look at.  Numbers in and 
> numbers out.  Numbers rejected.  Enrollments at MSAE. Faculty and 
> staff let go either at MSAE or MUM & the general diaspora of the old 
> TM community in the last several years.  The money raised and not 
> around.
> 
> Stunning inertia that no tru-believers really step up to talking 
> about resolution of how it is going here.  A few hundreds of earnest 
> people left in the middle just go along enabling and condone it by 
> doing it.  Some got fervor may be, but not much by way of being able 
> to reconcile how it is going.
> 
> A lot of people dove for the floor boards when ShivaMa's letters 
> came out at the beginning of August.  There are hundreds of people 
> lying by omission to be in the dome.  All kinds of circumstances.  
> ShivaMa had all kinds of threatening going on when she made her 
> letters public.  The letters kind of said it as it is here.  A lot 
> of fist-shaking in her face.  Terse conversation and then some nut 
> threatened to kill her for doing it. A lot of people have a lot at 
> stake in their lives to be able to go to the domes by the 
> guidelines, whatever the guidelines are.  Right now the guidelines 
> are morally the problem here that keeps it from happening for the 
> TMorg.  The TMorg is helpless in its processes of theocracy. 
> 
> So yes, Sounds like Fairfield is one big disintegrating mess.

There's more to Fairfield than just the TMO. Lately, the weekly Waking
Down sittings have been particularly lively, with 20-25 people showing
up for them. Granted, it's a very small niche compared to the TM
group, but it's the greatest level of interest in WD that I've seen in
the 2.5 years that I've been involved.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "dhamiltony2k5" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "nablus108"  
> wrote:
> Sounds like Fairfield is one big disintegrating mess.
> 
> Yes it does by any numbers you want to look at.  Numbers in and 
> numbers out.  Numbers rejected.  Enrollments at MSAE. Faculty and 
> staff let go either at MSAE or MUM & the general diaspora of the old 
> TM community in the last several years.  The money raised and not 
> around.
> 
> Stunning inertia that no tru-believers really step up to talking 
> about resolution of how it is going here.  A few hundreds of earnest 
> people left in the middle just go along enabling and condone it by 
> doing it.  Some got fervor may be, but not much by way of being able 
> to reconcile how it is going.
> 
> A lot of people dove for the floor boards when ShivaMa's letters 
> came out at the beginning of August.  There are hundreds of people 
> lying by omission to be in the dome.  All kinds of circumstances.  
> ShivaMa had all kinds of threatening going on when she made her 
> letters public.  The letters kind of said it as it is here.  A lot 
> of fist-shaking in her face.  Terse conversation and then some nut 
> threatened to kill her for doing it. A lot of people have a lot at 
> stake in their lives to be able to go to the domes by the 
> guidelines, whatever the guidelines are.  Right now the guidelines 
> are morally the problem here that keeps it from happening for the 
> TMorg.  The TMorg is helpless in its processes of theocracy. 
> 
> So yes, Sounds like Fairfield is one big disintegrating mess.
> 

The nut should be banned from the course also, obviously.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Black List

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk"  
wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000"  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000"
> > >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer  
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > From a trusted source who knows the score:
> > > > > 
> > > > > At present 241 have NOT been  accepted to the 3 places 
(not 
> > > > Huntsville Ont.)
> > > > > The number on the black list to the 15th Aug was exactly 
343 
> > rejected
> > > > > applications. Various reasons, BUT none clearly stated why 
all 
> > polite
> > > > > rejections at this time.
> > > > 
> > > > What is the standard line is this time,
> > > > 
> > > > 1) It would be better..
> > > > 
> > > > 2) Maharshi feels.
> > > > 
> > > > 3) Please spend some extra time working at the center with 
the 
> > local 
> > > > governors and apply for the next course
> > > > 
> > > > lurk
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > 
> > > So 2 out of 10 (or so) applicants have been rejected? This is 
MORE 
> > open? 
> > > 
> > > JohnY
> > > Vedic-Serf
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > Good point.
> > 
> > 20% is an incredibly huge number.
> >
> 
> 
> Guffaw. Up until recently, people were claiming that more than 
half the sidhas in Fairfield 
> had been banned or so the comments were suggesting.
> 
> 20% isn't that large, given what was being said 6 months ago on 
this list.



20% is incredibly large.

And the 20% figure is NOT incompatible with the "more than half" 
figure you cite above.

Spare Egg, you do realize, don't you, that not all Sidhas live in 
Fairfield...they are scattered about in places like Tucson, Arizona 
for example.  So you could have 50% rejected in Fairfield and, say, 
10% or 15% rejected elsewhere and this would still come out to 20% 
overall.

Do the math, Genius.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer  wrote:
> >
> > on 8/24/06 5:03 PM, authfriend at jstein@ wrote:
> 
> > >>> >> He might be referring to Rob McCutchean, who wrote a paper on
> > >>> >> it which you¹ll find in our files section.
> > >> > 
> > >> > I couldn't find this, Rick.  Could you be more specific
> > >> > as to where it is, what folder?
> > > 
> > It¹s called ³The Social and the Celestial.doc² and is in
> > http://tinyurl.com/bt7sp
> 
> Thanks, Rick.
>

What was the context of this paper? Where was it published/what was its 
intended audience? 
And what is Robert McCutchean's background, both academic,. and TM-related?






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[Rick Archer]

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,





on 8/24/06 4:45 PM, bob_brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

How loopy is Ramtha?:

I have a friend who was in Ramtha for 8 years, and who left, as did many others, when they all started drinking. The entire gang, JZ Knight included, would get plastered regularly because Ramtha recommended it. Many became raging alcoholics. 

__._,_.___





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Invincible Israel

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "suziezuzie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> y RAMIT PLUSHNICK-MASTI, Associated Press Writer 
> 54 minutes ago
>  
> 
> 
> JERUSALEM - With the purchase of two more German-made Dolphin 
> submarines capable of carrying nuclear warheads, military experts 
> sayIsrael is sending a clear message toIran that 
it 
> can strike back if attacked by nuclear weapons. 
> 
> The purchases come at a time when Iran is refusing to bow to 
growing 
> Western demands to halt its nuclear program, and after Iranian 
> President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has called for Israel to be "wiped 
off 
> the map."
> 
> The new submarines, built at a cost of $1.3 billion with Germany 
> footing one-third of the bill, have propulsion systems that allow 
> them to remain submerged for longer periods of time than the three 
> nuclear-capable submarines already in Israel's fleet, the 
Jerusalem 
> Post reported.

What a load of cr*p- Germany discounts one-third and US ponies up 
the rest. Gee, who is egging on this conflict hoping for greater 
weapon sales? H and wasn't Germany in  the news just 
yesterday saying it rejects the Iran proposal regarding uranium 
enrichment? What a stupid, greedy way to make money- I hope both 
subs sink to the ocean floor...





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[FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[dhamiltony2k5]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "nablus108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
Sounds like Fairfield is one big disintegrating mess.

Yes it does by any numbers you want to look at.  Numbers in and 
numbers out.  Numbers rejected.  Enrollments at MSAE. Faculty and 
staff let go either at MSAE or MUM & the general diaspora of the old 
TM community in the last several years.  The money raised and not 
around.

Stunning inertia that no tru-believers really step up to talking 
about resolution of how it is going here.  A few hundreds of earnest 
people left in the middle just go along enabling and condone it by 
doing it.  Some got fervor may be, but not much by way of being able 
to reconcile how it is going.

A lot of people dove for the floor boards when ShivaMa's letters 
came out at the beginning of August.  There are hundreds of people 
lying by omission to be in the dome.  All kinds of circumstances.  
ShivaMa had all kinds of threatening going on when she made her 
letters public.  The letters kind of said it as it is here.  A lot 
of fist-shaking in her face.  Terse conversation and then some nut 
threatened to kill her for doing it. A lot of people have a lot at 
stake in their lives to be able to go to the domes by the 
guidelines, whatever the guidelines are.  Right now the guidelines 
are morally the problem here that keeps it from happening for the 
TMorg.  The TMorg is helpless in its processes of theocracy. 

So yes, Sounds like Fairfield is one big disintegrating mess.


-Doug in FF

   

>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "dhamiltony2k5" 
>  wrote:
> >
> > "nablus108" writes: "it's sad really, that the situation for the 
> USA 
> > now is so grave that
> > the TMO seems to loosen up on the gudelines. "
> > 
> > Doug writing:
> > Yes that is the point and it is about the guidelines here & the 
> > nature of the meditating community here.  It is about 
necessity.  
> If 
> > they (the TMorg) really enforced the guidelines hundreds of 
people 
> > would not qualify to be part of the ME here…  The rank and file 
and 
> > all the echelon of the movement are involved.  Do people lie to 
get 
> > in to the domes?. Probalbly most if it was really pressed.  
ShivaMa 
> > is not extraordinary really.  There are simply many hundreds of 
> > people just like her.  There are hundreds of people like her in 
the 
> > domes now.  The guidelines are just out of line and on the 
ground 
> > the administration is doing the best it can in a theocracy where 
> the 
> > current project is to try for the ME.  An irony is that Jeanne 
is 
> > actually the tru-beiliever by her experience if anyone is.
> > 
> > With Kind Regards, 
> > -Doug in FF
> 
> Sounds like Fairfield is one big disintegrating mess.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Black List

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000"
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer  
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > From a trusted source who knows the score:
> > > > 
> > > > At present 241 have NOT been  accepted to the 3 places (not 
> > > Huntsville Ont.)
> > > > The number on the black list to the 15th Aug was exactly 343 
> rejected
> > > > applications. Various reasons, BUT none clearly stated why all 
> polite
> > > > rejections at this time.
> > > 
> > > What is the standard line is this time,
> > > 
> > > 1) It would be better..
> > > 
> > > 2) Maharshi feels.
> > > 
> > > 3) Please spend some extra time working at the center with the 
> local 
> > > governors and apply for the next course
> > > 
> > > lurk
> > > >
> > >
> > 
> > So 2 out of 10 (or so) applicants have been rejected? This is MORE 
> open? 
> > 
> > JohnY
> > Vedic-Serf
> >
> 
> 
> Good point.
> 
> 20% is an incredibly huge number.
>


Guffaw. Up until recently, people were claiming that more than half the sidhas 
in Fairfield 
had been banned or so the comments were suggesting.

20% isn't that large, given what was being said 6 months ago on this list.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 8/24/06 5:03 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> >>> >> He might be referring to Rob McCutchean, who wrote a paper on
> >>> >> it which you¹ll find in our files section.
> >> > 
> >> > I couldn't find this, Rick.  Could you be more specific
> >> > as to where it is, what folder?
> > 
> It¹s called ³The Social and the Celestial.doc² and is in
> http://tinyurl.com/bt7sp

Thanks, Rick.







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[Rick Archer]

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences





on 8/24/06 5:03 PM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  
> , Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> 
>> on 8/23/06 2:09 PM, Paul Mason at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> 
>>> I had someone contact me recently to assist with a degree they are
>>> doing on aspects of MMY and the TMO. I am already aware of Dr
>>> Coplin's work. 
>>> 
>>> But to whom are your referring to when you write of 'people who got
>>> their PhD's in Sociology by researching the early history of MMY and
>>> the TMO'? 
>>> 
>> He might be referring to Rob McCutchean, who wrote a paper on it which
>> you’ll find in our files section.
> 
> I couldn't find this, Rick.  Could you be more specific
> as to where it is, what folder?

It’s called “The Social and the Celestial.doc” and is in http://tinyurl.com/bt7sp

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[FairfieldLife] Ladies' Dome Mold

[Rick Archer]

Title: Ladies' Dome Mold





From a friend:

The air quality in the ladies dome is very, very poor.

I don't know how you ladies put up with it day in and day out. I could 
hardly breathe when I finally left. Mold filled to the max. I felt that my 
lips looked like Angelina's by the time I came out. I am very sensitive to 
mold but that was overkill for my system. Phew. No one can convince me that 
the mold has been "cleaned" out.

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[FairfieldLife] Invincible Israel

[suziezuzie]

y RAMIT PLUSHNICK-MASTI, Associated Press Writer 
54 minutes ago
 


JERUSALEM - With the purchase of two more German-made Dolphin 
submarines capable of carrying nuclear warheads, military experts 
sayIsrael is sending a clear message toIran that it 
can strike back if attacked by nuclear weapons. 

The purchases come at a time when Iran is refusing to bow to growing 
Western demands to halt its nuclear program, and after Iranian 
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has called for Israel to be "wiped off 
the map."

The new submarines, built at a cost of $1.3 billion with Germany 
footing one-third of the bill, have propulsion systems that allow 
them to remain submerged for longer periods of time than the three 
nuclear-capable submarines already in Israel's fleet, the Jerusalem 
Post reported.

The latest submarines not only would be able to carry out a first 
strike should Israel choose to do so, but they also would provide 
Israel with crucial second-strike capabilities, said Paul Beaver, a 
London-based independent defense analyst.

Israel is already believed to have that ability in the form of the 
Jericho-1 and Jericho-2 nuclear-capable ballistic missiles, which 
are buried so far underground they would survive a nuclear strike, 
he said.

"The Iranians would be very foolish if they attacked Israel," Beaver 
said.

German officials have said the contract for the new submarines was 
signed on July 6, and the Jerusalem Post reported this week the subs 
will be operational shortly.

Israel, operating on a policy of nuclear ambiguity, has never 
confirmed or denied whether it has nuclear weapons. It is believed, 
however, to have the world's sixth-largest stockpile of nuclear 
weapons, including hundreds of warheads.

Iran so far has resisted calls by theU.N. Security Council 
to halt uranium enrichment, despite an Aug. 31 deadline that is 
accompanied by the threat of sanctions.

The dispute over Tehran's nuclear program revolves around Iran's 
insistence that it wants to master the technology simply to generate 
electricity. Critics say Iran wants to make nuclear weapons.

The Dolphin submarine could be one of the best deterrents, Beaver 
said. The technology on the submarines makes them undetectable and 
gives them defensive capabilities in the case of attack, he said.

"They are very well-built, very well-prepared, lots of interesting 
equipment, one of the best conventional submarines available," 
Beaver said. "We are talking about a third string of deterrence 
capabilities."

Michael Karpin, an expert on Israel's nuclear capabilities who 
published a book on the issue in the United States, said nuclear 
submarines provide better second-strike capabilities than missiles 
launched from airplanes.

"Planes are vulnerable, unlike nuclear submarines that can operate 
for an almost unlimited amount of time without being struck," Karpin 
said. "Second-strike capabilities are a crucial element in any 
nuclear conflict."

In Germany, members of two opposition parties criticized the deal. 
Winfried Nachtwei, national security spokesman for the Greens, said 
the decision was wrong because Germany had obtained no guarantee the 
submarines would not be used to carry nuclear weapons.

"This red line should not be crossed," Nachtwei was quoted as saying 
by the taz newspaper. "Otherwise it is a complete renunciation of 
Germany's policy of non-proliferation."

David Menashri, an Israeli expert on Iran, said Tehran is clearly 
determined to obtain nuclear power and "the purchase of additional 
Dolphin submarines by Israel is a small footnote in this context."

What also makes Tehran dangerous, Beaver said, is that it may not 
understand the consequences of carrying out a nuclear strike. 

"They (Iran) have a belligerent leadership and that's why Israel is 
prudent in ensuring that it has that deterrent capability," Beaver 
said. "What they (the submarines) are is a very good insurance 
policy."







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> The cult/thought reform information was useful for me but it
> may not be for everyone.  There are ways to understand it
> that don't involve seeing yourself as a victim.

"[TM techniques] are the most sophisticated techniques
for mind control that have ever been used," according
to you.

You also wrote, "Lifton and Singer studied [Korean
war vets] and brought out a model to understand the
shifting of a person's belief without their conscious
participation.  It describes what happened to me in
TM very well."

It's difficult to see how these claims of yours
could be consistent with not seeing yourself as a 
victim.

> As a teacher my first instinct in learning about this aspect of 
> groups was to decide that I couldn't ethically teach the system
> to others.  I decided that before I stopped meditating.  I felt
> as though the way the information was imparted was not done in
> a manor that I was comfortable with.  But everyone has to
> decide for themselves if this information is useful for their
> lives.  
> 
> Once I learned about it, I sought it out.  That was my choice.
> It may not be yours or you may have already checked it out and 
> decided it doesn't apply.

How could it *not* apply if TM's techniques are "the
most sophisticated techniques for mind control that
have ever been used"?


> I liked Margret Singer personally, and felt she was making a
> contribution to our understanding of group belief dynamics.  Her 
> heart was in the right place and she was a deep thinker.

Here's my favorite statement of this "deep thinker"
(at least as reported by Curtis):

"According to Margret Singer who has personally worked
with more than 3,000 cult victims TMers sustain the most
damage of any members who have left a cult."

(Note Curtis's--or perhaps Singer's--use of the term
"cult victims.")

One *hopes* that Curtis has somewhat mangled this
assertion of Singer's, and that what she *actually*
said was more like, "The former TMers with whom I
have worked have sustained the most damage of any
former cult members I have treated."

But even that would be a rather peculiar assertion
from someone who was supposedly scientifically
minded.

First, her "sample" of former TMers is self-selected,
on two levels: (1) these are people who sought out
therapy; (2) they are people who sought out *Singer*
as their therapist.

Second, neither Singer nor anyone else that I'm aware
of has ever made a serious attempt to distinguish
preexisting pathology from the effects of TM.

(Indeed, given the specific claims TM makes and its
documented effectiveness in some areas--e.g.,
reducing trait anxiety--it's likely that people with
preexisting pathology tend to gravitate to TM in
relatively larger numbers, so that's another factor
skewing the sample.)

So for her to suggest that her patients' "damage" was
a result of their TM practice and/or exposure to its
purported thought-reform techniques is completely
unsupported by any data.

Curtis, Singer may have been a very nice lady, but she
was a *sloppy thinker*.  To use her "model" and analysis
as the basis of your perspective on your TM experience
is iffy at best, and to promote it to others without
the appropriate caveats is just plain irresponsible.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[Robert Gimbel]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the flashback!  I remember at the very end of my TTC they
> made a point of having us hold the file in our hands but told us not
> to look.  I didn't know if it was a test or what it was.  I was too
> afraid, I admire you for looking!  What was it's purpose?  I thought
> it might be some legal thing that they were fulfilling since they 
had
> records on us but we did not work for them as employees. Was it to 
let
> us know that they had a file on us? It was a weird moment.  Any TTC
> teacher care to weigh in?

yeah, I just remember feeling that this was all my records which they 
had for all the years I  had been filling out forms, and sending them 
in: they were all there in that folder, which at the time, I believe 
were being kept in Switzerland, where Maharishi stayed mostly in 
those days...
So, it just felt like you were carrying all of your past 'Karma' in 
that folder;
Plus they told you not to look, which made it really dramatic...
So, anyway, I just had a peak, to see it was just all my papers which 
I had filled out over the years;
And, the guy who I was supposed to give the folder to;
Like the guard at the gate, so to speak:
Well, he acted like he knew I had peaked or something;
Because I remember him either saying, or giving me a look, like:
"What are You, doing here?"
As if to say, I can see your not following the rules,
So how did they let You in???
Really weird..
Think he had some kind of German accent, figures?
R.G.
> 
> 
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Gimbel" 
> wrote:
> >
> >  (snip)
> > "Come off it, Judy.  I'd be amazed if they had records going back 
a 
> > few 
> > > years, much less when someone learned TM.  The bit about the 
> > teacher's 
> > > name is just more TMO silliness, as anyone could have made up a 
> > name.  
> > > Tell you what...next time you apply for a course, make up some 
name 
> > to 
> > > put in the initiator's blank, and see what happens--I'll bet 
> > nothing.  
> > > (The name, of course, would have to be something that doesn't 
call 
> > > attention to itself, could even be the name of an initiator, 
just 
> > not 
> > > *your* initiator.)"
> > 
> > I wouldn't at all be surprised, that the movement has kept every 
> > little peice of paper that has your name on it;
> > From the very beginning of your involvement with it.
> > When I was on TTC in 1977, in France;
> > It seemed at the end, when we were made teachers;
> > The people handling the paperwork, seemed like mostly Germans;
> > And we all know about their obsession with record keeping...
> > I guess Freud called this: "Anal Retentive"
> > Anyway, they had every paper that I had ever submitted, in my 
file;
> > Which I was instructed, not to look at;
> > But, I to a peek anyway; after all, it was(is) my file, right?
> > R.G.
> >
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> [...]
> > 
> >After looking at a detailed report prepared by the major 
> >advocates of this perspective [including Singer--JS], the 
> >American Psychological Association concluded that the idea of 
> >brainwashing and mind control as popularly applied to the new 
> >religious movements was scientifically unacceptable.  It had 
been 
> >arrived at through a sloppy metholology and poor scientific 
work. 
> > 
> >Subsequently the American Sociological Association and the 
> >Society for the Scientific Study of Religion reached a similar 
> >conclusion.  As a result, testimony concerning brainwashing 
and 
> >mind control have properly been banished from consideration by 
> >American courts as an idea lacking any scientific credibility.
> >
> 
> Singer sued the APA over this and lost, BTW. But, it's
> nice for cult-followers to be able to blame the cult
> rather than themselves--whether it's the TMO that serves
> their needs for a cult to belong to or some other group

First they have to justify defining the group
as a cult, which is where Singer's incredibly
sloppy thinking is so con-VE-nient, because
the "subtlety" dodge allows you to define just
about any group as a cult.




--so they keep dragging out the "cult victim" claim 
> and then complain that someone is "blaming the victim" when people 
point out that not 
> everyone has had the same experience with the TMO that they do.
>







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[FairfieldLife] 'Feel'- the Energy of (your) The Soul...

[Robert Gimbel]

Feeling the energy of your soul, can be another way to say:  'Simplest State of Awareness', which Maharishi uses to describe;  Transcendental Consciousness...  'Feeling at this finest level, that you are feeling your own soul...  And, much has been written of the soul.  Much literature, and quotes from Guru Dev, in regard to the soul.  And the power of the soul, to create miracles, touch all other souls...  Something to 'think' about.  Or- Cog-nize(intuite?)about? or 'Re-Cognize...'  -R.G. __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 
__._,_.___





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> on 8/23/06 2:09 PM, Paul Mason at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > I had someone contact me recently to assist with a degree they are
> > doing on aspects of MMY and the TMO. I am already aware of Dr
> > Coplin's work. 
> > 
> > But to whom are your referring to when you write of 'people who got
> > their PhD's in Sociology by researching the early history of MMY and
> > the TMO'? 
> > 
> He might be referring to Rob McCutchean, who wrote a paper on it which
> you¹ll find in our files section.

I couldn't find this, Rick.  Could you be more specific
as to where it is, what folder?








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[curtisdeltablues]

The cult/thought reform information was useful for me but it may not
be for everyone.  There are ways to understand it that don't involve
seeing yourself as a victim.  As a teacher my first instinct in
learning about this aspect of groups was to decide that I couldn't
ethically teach the system to others.  I decided that before I stopped
meditating.  I felt as though the way the information was imparted was
not done in a manor that I was comfortable with.  But everyone has to
decide for themselves if this information is useful for their lives.  

Once I learned about it, I sought it out.  That was my choice.  It may
not be yours or you may have already checked it out and decided it
doesn't apply.  But learning about how groups can shift beliefs
doesn't make you a victim unless you want it to.  It is just an
influence.  There are a lot of factors that influence its
effectiveness.  We are social primates and that had implications.

I liked Margret Singer personally, and felt she was making a
contribution to our understanding of group belief dynamics.  Her heart
was in the right place and she was a deep thinker. May she rest in peace.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> [...]
> > 
> >After looking at a detailed report prepared by the major 
> >advocates of this perspective [including Singer--JS], the 
> >American Psychological Association concluded that the idea of 
> >brainwashing and mind control as popularly applied to the new 
> >religious movements was scientifically unacceptable.  It had been 
> >arrived at through a sloppy metholology and poor scientific work. 
> > 
> >Subsequently the American Sociological Association and the 
> >Society for the Scientific Study of Religion reached a similar 
> >conclusion.  As a result, testimony concerning brainwashing and 
> >mind control have properly been banished from consideration by 
> >American courts as an idea lacking any scientific credibility.
> >
> 
> Singer sued the APA over this and lost, BTW. But, it's nice for
cult-followers to be able to 
> blame the cult rather than themselves--whether it's the TMO that
serves their needs for a 
> cult to belong to or some other group--so they keep dragging out the
"cult victim" claim 
> and then complain that someone is "blaming the victim" when people
point out that not 
> everyone has had the same experience with the TMO that they do.
>






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Re: [FairfieldLife] course registration and SSNs

[Rick Archer]

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] course registration and SSNs





on 8/23/06 2:12 PM, feste37 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

No one asked me to sign anything saying I would never see saints 
or do any other techniques. 

But if they knew that you had seen or done some, they would have pulled out those forms.


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[Peter]

--- L B Shriver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "bmorry2000"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > "They are letting everyone in the dome--except
> LB."  is exactly what 
> > I heard from my marginally on the program friends.
> 
> snip
> 
> 
> 
> It's such a weird world. Apparently there are
> actually quite a few people still being rejected, 
> but my case is (I am told) The Gold Standard.
> 
> If they knew how much it would improve their PR to
> let me in, I'd be in in a heartbeat.
> 
> But they don't.
> 
> L B S

Their loss, L.B.. Why don't you tell John to call MMY
and ask him if you should be let in the dome? You
could tell John that he is in no position to accept
the karma of blocking the good intent of someone who
wants to get in the dome. Only MMY can decide that. On
an ATR ('77) I was on many moons ago, someones mother
was being blocked from attending TTC because she
taught asanas. When MMY came to see us her son told
MMY directly about the situation he was surprised. He
said outloud something like: She can't go to TTC
because she's teaching asanas? He acted like it was
the stupidest decision he had ever heard. He turned to
his secretary and told him to fix it. His mom got on
TTC right away.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: ME for USA

[Peter]

--- nablus108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "nablus108"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> "shempmcgurk"  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,
> "nablus108"  
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > 
> > > > Did the americans manage 1700 ?
> > > > 
> > > > If not, it is a historic event. First failiure
> of the TMO.
> > > >  
> > > > Could have tragic consequenses.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord or
> burn in hell for all 
> > > eternity.
> > 
> > Well that's a rather strange conseption
> considering that Jesus and 
> > Christ are two different personalities. For more
> information, 
> please 
> > see: http://www.sharientl.org
> 
>  Correct adress: http://www.shareintl.org

You remind me of a sales guy. Always coming back to
the pitch! The bottom line is the sale.





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> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>  
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> 
> 


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[FairfieldLife] Re: ME for USA

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "nablus108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "nablus108"  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > Did the americans manage 1700 ?
> > > 
> > > If not, it is a historic event. First failiure of the TMO.
> > >  
> > > Could have tragic consequenses.
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > Accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord or burn in hell for 
all 
> > eternity.
> 
> Well that's a rather strange conseption considering that Jesus and 
> Christ are two different personalities. For more information, 
please 
> see: http://www.sharientl.org
>

...interesting that the two different personalities question is what 
you felt compelled to comment upon.

Obviously, you don't seem bothered by the fact that YOUR scare 
tactic approach sounds eerily familiar to the fundamentalist 
Christian scare tactic approach...





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Black List

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jyouells2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000"
>  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer  
wrote:
> > >
> > > From a trusted source who knows the score:
> > > 
> > > At present 241 have NOT been  accepted to the 3 places (not 
> > Huntsville Ont.)
> > > The number on the black list to the 15th Aug was exactly 343 
rejected
> > > applications. Various reasons, BUT none clearly stated why all 
polite
> > > rejections at this time.
> > 
> > What is the standard line is this time,
> > 
> > 1) It would be better..
> > 
> > 2) Maharshi feels.
> > 
> > 3) Please spend some extra time working at the center with the 
local 
> > governors and apply for the next course
> > 
> > lurk
> > >
> >
> 
> So 2 out of 10 (or so) applicants have been rejected? This is MORE 
open? 
> 
> JohnY
> Vedic-Serf
>


Good point.

20% is an incredibly huge number.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[Robert Gimbel]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend"  wrote:
> >
> [...]
> > 
> >After looking at a detailed report prepared by the major 
> >advocates of this perspective [including Singer--JS], the 
> >American Psychological Association concluded that the idea of 
> >brainwashing and mind control as popularly applied to the new 
> >religious movements was scientifically unacceptable.  It had 
been 
> >arrived at through a sloppy metholology and poor scientific 
work. 
> > 
> >Subsequently the American Sociological Association and the 
> >Society for the Scientific Study of Religion reached a similar 
> >conclusion.  As a result, testimony concerning brainwashing 
and 
> >mind control have properly been banished from consideration by 
> >American courts as an idea lacking any scientific credibility.
> >
> 
> Singer sued the APA over this and lost, BTW. But, it's nice for 
cult-followers to be able to 
> blame the cult rather than themselves--whether it's the TMO that 
serves their needs for a 
> cult to belong to or some other group--so they keep dragging out 
the "cult victim" claim 
> and then complain that someone is "blaming the victim" when people 
point out that not 
> everyone has had the same experience with the TMO that they do.
>
Yes, I agree, this is the typical blame someone else for your 
experience;
Everyone on some level chooses his or her own experience;
So we all need to take responsibility at some point.
After all, it is our life, not a dress rehersal.
Now, even the Kaplans, seem so victimized;
Perhaps they do make some valid points;
But they also had all of these experiences that money could buy;
Mush personal time with Maharishi;
I didn't get to do that.
And I don't have the money that they do either.
But in any case, when you are blaming, and not taking responsibility, 
there is no growth in this.
R.G.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[authfriend]

This seems to be a delayed repeat; I responded to it
in some detail when it was first posted.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> 
> On Aug 22, 2006, at 6:49 PM, authfriend wrote:
> 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On Aug 22, 2006, at 5:45 PM, authfriend wrote:
> >>
> >>> I had to supply it to my lawyer when I purchased a
> >>> condo recently; the town requires it to transfer the
> >>> deed.  And as I noted, a physician I went to for a
> >>> flu shot asked for it as well.  It's still fairly
> >>> common.
> 
> And those are routine occurrences?
> >>
> >> Only in your world, Judy.
> >
> > Uh, no, Sal.  It's still fairly common, as I said
> > (and the AARP confirms).
> >
> >> Last time I got a flu shot I paid them 10
> >> bucks and they gave me the shot.  I could have been a Martian for
> >> all they cared.
> >
> > And that proves...what, exactly?
> >
> > My health insurance card, with TEIGIT, has my SS#
> > on it.  I complained to them, because I can't carry
> > the card in my wallet.  They said they were working
> > on a new system, but it wouldn't be ready for some
> > time yet.
> 
> Well, neither my health insurance card or that for my kids has any 
SS 
> #s on it.  My driver's license used to, but they stopped that years 
> ago.  I don't remember whether or not I had to give it to apply for 
any 
> of the credit cards I've had over the years.
> 
> > I had to give my SS# to open a bank account six
> > five years ago.  You have to give it on most
> > credit card applications.  My landlord wanted it
> > when I first rented the condo I just bought, also
> > five years ago.
> 
> And these relate to the TMO how, exactly? Would you describe any of 
the 
> above situations as routine?
> 
> SS #s are generally asked for when security issues are at stake, 
like 
> with savings accounts and deeds, or when dealing with large amounts 
of 
> people.  Neither of those situations applies to the TMO courses, 
> especially nowadays.
> >
> > You didn't answer my question, Sal.  I don't think you
> > have any actual threat in mind.  You just thought it
> > sounded good to use the word "intimidation."
> 
> And you've proven my point for me, by admitting you wouldn't give 
it to 
> them.  I think they know perfectly well that people, in general, 
don't 
> like to give them out and probably never have.  I doubt they'd use 
them 
> for anything (since to my knowledge they never actually have)-- 
It's a 
> power trip.  And I don't think getting involved in that kind of 
game is 
> healthy.
> 
> And another point--usually when an organization asks you for one, 
> that's it.  They don't keep asking you every single time.  These 
idiots 
> just want you to know they've got something on you--again and again.
> 
> > And again, see the AARP link, which explains why
> > SS#s are routinely used for identification.
> 
> I didn't see any link.
> >
> >>> For the record, if I had to give them my SS# to
> >>> go on a course these days, I wouldn't do it, even
> >>> if it meant I couldn't go.  I don't trust them to
> >>> keep those records secure from people who might
> >>> use them for identity theft.
> >>
> >> So then you *do* think they could be used for nefarious purposes-
-
> >
> > Of course.  But that's not why the TMO is asking for
> > them, obviously.
> 
> OK, why are they asking for them then?
> >
> >> who else besides people in the TMO would ever have access to that
> >> info?
> >
> > Not everyone in the TMO is necessarily an upstanding
> > citizen, first of all.  Some lower-level administrative
> > person with financial needs and no scruples might have
> > access to a list of SS#s and get ideas.  Lists of SS#s
> > are worth big bucks in the identity theft market.  You
> > can sell them to brokers, who then sell them to
> > individuals who commit the actual identity theft.
> >
> > Second, there are any number of ways the numbers could
> > get to non-TMO people.  Someone could walk in a door
> > left unlocked and steal the records; some nitwit TMer
> > could throw a batch of unneeded printouts in the trash;
> > a janitor could find the records sitting on someone's
> > desk; a hacker could break into the computer system if
> > it weren't secured properly, etc., etc., etc.
> >
> > This is why you don't want to have to give out your
> > SS# if you can possibly avoid it--because they're
> > *worth lots of money*, and even an organization
> > with the most spotless motives can be careless about
> > how they're handled.
> >
> > Knowing the level of disorganization and general
> > incompetence in the TMO, I simply wouldn't trust them
> > to keep the numbers secure.
> 
> That's my point exactly.  Whether it's directly by someone with 
some 
> nefarious intent, or simply because some idiot gets careless, you 
would 
> not trust the TMO with potentially sensitive information.  Neither 
> would I.
> 
> Sal
>






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences

[Rick Archer]

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Question on suitability of experiences





on 8/23/06 2:09 PM, Paul Mason at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I had someone contact me recently to assist with a degree they are 
doing on aspects of MMY and the TMO. I am already aware of Dr 
Coplin's work. 

But to whom are your referring to when you write of 'people who got 
their PhD's in Sociology by researching the early history of MMY and 
the TMO'? 

He might be referring to Rob McCutchean, who wrote a paper on it which you’ll find in our files section.


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the reply.  Lifton and Singer established 8
> principles from their work with Korean war vets.  I
> don't know Lifton but did know the late Margret Singer.
> She was fascinated by how some modern groups had refined
> the techniques to become less obvious and more subtle.

Note that the Korean war vets in question had been
prisoners of war in Korea and China; that's Lifton's
and Singer's model, which they then (especially Singer)
extrapolated to new religious groups (or "cults").

(Curtis believes, incidentally, or did back in 1997
when he was posting to alt.m.t, that the same methods
used on the Korean war vets to alter their thinking
about communism were used on him in the context of the
TMO--in their "more subtle form," of course.  He was
quoted as claiming in the Washington, DC, City Paper,
7/13/90, that the TM "thought reform" techniques are 
"the most sophisticated techniques for mind control
that have ever been used.")

Not surprisingly, Singer found the "techniques" used
by the Koreans and Chinese to brainwash prisoners of
war had been "refined" to "become less obvious and
more subtle" in the new religious groups.

The problem is that if you posit a sufficient degree
of "subtlety," you can make all *kinds* of things fit
these principles, and you can find them, in their
"less obvious, more subtle" form, in any number of
groups and organizations that nobody would consider
cults.

The problem with anticults (especially lay ones like
Curtis) is that they never draw the necessary lines.
At what point does the "subtlety" of these "techniques"
mean that they aren't "techniques" at all but simply
the normal, accepted way of doing things in a
particular context, with no sinister motivations, and
perhaps even a well-founded practical basis?

If the range of "subtlety" of these "techniques" can
be extended indefinitely, it becomes possible to pick
virtually any group and find enough of its procedures
in their "subtle" forms among Lifton's and Singer's
list of "thought-reform techniques."

But if these "techniques" can be found in virtually
any group by the simple expedient of claiming they
are used in such a highly "refined" form that they
aren't obvious (or even evident), it no longer
becomes possible to make valid distinctions between
groups that are cults and groups that are not on
the basis of the "techniques" criterion.

Instead, what happens is that groups are placed 
under suspicion of being cults on other grounds,
which typically boil down to the fact that they
have beliefs one does not oneself hold, or that
one does not care for the personality of the
leader, or other irrelevancies (including that
one has left a particular group and needs to find
justification for doing so).

Only then are the "technique" criteria applied, and
lo and behold, these suspect groups are all found to
utilize very "subtle" forms of these "techniques."

>From court testimony in a Hare Krishna case by cult
expert G. Gordon Melton: 

   More recently, several people have espoused the idea of 
   brainwashing (also termed thought control, coercive persuasion, 
   or mind control). Proponents suggested that cults had discovered 
   a new psychological technology, a technology which has somehow 
   escaped the rest of the psychological world.  With this 
   technology it "brainwashed" young recruits and held them with 
   such force that they are unable to break the spell of attachment 
   to the group. 

   These ideas which seemed to actually have a body of evidence 
   behind them, provoked a heated debate among social scientists in 
   the early 1980s.  In the mid 1980s, the whole brainwashing 
   perspective was thoroughly evaluated by the American 
   Psychological Association. 

   After looking at a detailed report prepared by the major 
   advocates of this perspective [including Singer--JS], the 
   American Psychological Association concluded that the idea of 
   brainwashing and mind control as popularly applied to the new 
   religious movements was scientifically unacceptable.  It had been 
   arrived at through a sloppy metholology and poor scientific work. 

   Subsequently the American Sociological Association and the 
   Society for the Scientific Study of Religion reached a similar 
   conclusion.  As a result, testimony concerning brainwashing and 
   mind control have properly been banished from consideration by 
   American courts as an idea lacking any scientific credibility. 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[curtisdeltablues]

Thanks for the flashback!  I remember at the very end of my TTC they
made a point of having us hold the file in our hands but told us not
to look.  I didn't know if it was a test or what it was.  I was too
afraid, I admire you for looking!  What was it's purpose?  I thought
it might be some legal thing that they were fulfilling since they had
records on us but we did not work for them as employees. Was it to let
us know that they had a file on us? It was a weird moment.  Any TTC
teacher care to weigh in?



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Gimbel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>  (snip)
> "Come off it, Judy.  I'd be amazed if they had records going back a 
> few 
> > years, much less when someone learned TM.  The bit about the 
> teacher's 
> > name is just more TMO silliness, as anyone could have made up a 
> name.  
> > Tell you what...next time you apply for a course, make up some name 
> to 
> > put in the initiator's blank, and see what happens--I'll bet 
> nothing.  
> > (The name, of course, would have to be something that doesn't call 
> > attention to itself, could even be the name of an initiator, just 
> not 
> > *your* initiator.)"
> 
> I wouldn't at all be surprised, that the movement has kept every 
> little peice of paper that has your name on it;
> From the very beginning of your involvement with it.
> When I was on TTC in 1977, in France;
> It seemed at the end, when we were made teachers;
> The people handling the paperwork, seemed like mostly Germans;
> And we all know about their obsession with record keeping...
> I guess Freud called this: "Anal Retentive"
> Anyway, they had every paper that I had ever submitted, in my file;
> Which I was instructed, not to look at;
> But, I to a peek anyway; after all, it was(is) my file, right?
> R.G.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Adyashanti in Miami

[Peter]

Hey, just saw that Adyashanti is going to be in my
neck of the woods this weekend. Very clear, nice,
realized guy. Think I'll go check him out. He hasn't
stolen any of Earl's money, has he? ;-)



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[FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[Robert Gimbel]

 (snip)
"Come off it, Judy.  I'd be amazed if they had records going back a 
few 
> years, much less when someone learned TM.  The bit about the 
teacher's 
> name is just more TMO silliness, as anyone could have made up a 
name.  
> Tell you what...next time you apply for a course, make up some name 
to 
> put in the initiator's blank, and see what happens--I'll bet 
nothing.  
> (The name, of course, would have to be something that doesn't call 
> attention to itself, could even be the name of an initiator, just 
not 
> *your* initiator.)"

I wouldn't at all be surprised, that the movement has kept every 
little peice of paper that has your name on it;
>From the very beginning of your involvement with it.
When I was on TTC in 1977, in France;
It seemed at the end, when we were made teachers;
The people handling the paperwork, seemed like mostly Germans;
And we all know about their obsession with record keeping...
I guess Freud called this: "Anal Retentive"
Anyway, they had every paper that I had ever submitted, in my file;
Which I was instructed, not to look at;
But, I to a peek anyway; after all, it was(is) my file, right?
R.G.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[sparaig]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
[...]
> 
>After looking at a detailed report prepared by the major 
>advocates of this perspective [including Singer--JS], the 
>American Psychological Association concluded that the idea of 
>brainwashing and mind control as popularly applied to the new 
>religious movements was scientifically unacceptable.  It had been 
>arrived at through a sloppy metholology and poor scientific work. 
> 
>Subsequently the American Sociological Association and the 
>Society for the Scientific Study of Religion reached a similar 
>conclusion.  As a result, testimony concerning brainwashing and 
>mind control have properly been banished from consideration by 
>American courts as an idea lacking any scientific credibility.
>

Singer sued the APA over this and lost, BTW. But, it's nice for cult-followers 
to be able to 
blame the cult rather than themselves--whether it's the TMO that serves their 
needs for a 
cult to belong to or some other group--so they keep dragging out the "cult 
victim" claim 
and then complain that someone is "blaming the victim" when people point out 
that not 
everyone has had the same experience with the TMO that they do.





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[Peter]

--- Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> on 8/24/06 1:20 PM, jyouells2000 at
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> 
> > , "nablus108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> >>  ,
> "sparaig"  wrote:
> >>> > >
> >>> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> >>>  , Sal
> Sunshine 
> >> > wrote:
>  > > >
>  > > > Those weren't the kinds of records I was
> talking about, obviously.
>  > > > 
>  > > > Any dirt on anyone I'm sure they'd keep
> somewhere, even any
> >> > alleged 
>  > > > dirt.  For all we know, they probably
> have a database somewhere
> >> > on 
>  > > > *future* dirt, and who is most likely to
> be a contender.
> 
> I don¹t think they keep it in a database. I think
> they keep file folders on
> everyone. One friend of mine who applied said they
> referred to an ad for
> healing services she had placed in the Weekly Reader
> years ago. I think they
> actually clipped and saved the ad.

Someone needs to get laid on a more regular basis.





> 


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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[Robert Gimbel]

 (snip)
"I also think it comes down nowadays to a simple cost/benefit 
> analysis, like anything else. Is there enough benefit that I will 
> receive by involving myself with this organization vs. the cost, 
> monetary or otherwise, of associating with the organization?"

I am sure the people running this course are also thinking in terms 
of 'cost/benefit analysis', so that perhaps it is not worth their 
while to entertain people who they feel will be disruptive and 
counterproductive...
Also, I really don't see how this Lifton study on 'cults',
Is any different from any organized belief system, whether it be any 
of the organized religions, or even the way our whole culture is 
stuctured.
Any time there is human structure of any kind; there follows rules, 
do's and don'ts and vieing for political power.
One of the only organizations that had avoided this, is the Twelve 
Step programs, which specifically have a structure that avoids anyone 
becoming a leader or 'head' of the group; and the money is not used 
for promotion, and other safe-guards to avoid ego taking over.
But it is never easy to structure any organization without ego vieing 
for power, money, and the like...

> >
> > " presence in the Dome would be "disruptive". 
> > > > Disruptive? "
> > 
> > What is disrupted is Milieu Control.  I'm sure everyone here is 
> hip to
> > that Lifton concept. http://www.freeminds.org/psych/lifton.htm
> > 
> > Since so many quality people have bailed on letting them work 
their
> > mojo, it seems like they are just acting out of habit.  The 
> movement
> > seems to lack the ability to create a new organization that 
> respects
> > mature individuals with enough spiritual and life experience to 
> decide
> > things for themselves. It worked better when everyone was in their
> > 20's and less self-assured.  From the outside it is fascinating 
to 
> see
> > them try to cast the same old spells their a broken wands.
> > 
> > I wonder if Lifton has studied the oppositional reflex that must 
> exist
> > even in devoted members, who are still close to the 
organization.  
> It
> > seems as if the innocence is so long gone that the movement's 
words
> > would have a completely different effect by this time.
> > 
> > When I talk with people who still do the program about the 
> movement,
> > there is so much eye-rolling that it makes me wonder who is more
> > turned off to the "teaching".  My guess is that although FFL is a
> > small group who are willing to speak up, the eclectic lifestyle 
and
> > practices represented here is more reflective of the majority of
> > people still involved with TM than the old-school hardline.  I 
meet
> > people who keep their feelings and practices to themselves for 
> fear of
> > being cut out of courses.  I would love to know the numbers on 
both
> > these sides.
> > 
> 
> I also think it comes down nowadays to a simple cost/benefit 
> analysis, like anything else. Is there enough benefit that I will 
> receive by involving myself with this organization vs. the cost, 
> monetary or otherwise, of associating with the organization?
> 
> My affinity for the TMO is much more about the organizational 
> dynamics than whether I choose to involve myself in alternative  
> spiritual esoterica.
> 
> I really appreciate the 'Vedic template' that Maharishi has been 
> patiently been putting in place for so many years, and I have found 
> the TM techniques exceptionally effective at all levels. However 
the 
> TMO has been for me a victim of its own success. The more I achieve 
> the less need I have for the organization, which I think is the way 
> it is supposed to be- except for those whose dharma it is to work 
> within the organization.
> 
> Having said that, I am extremely grateful to those on this current 
> course. It is having a palpable effect even as far away as where I 
> call home, northern California. My partner and I have been noticing 
> among other things how the quality of our dreams has changed since 
> the course began. I also notice the effect of the course during my 
> meditation. Just a livelier time, all around.
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[bob_brigante]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "bmorry2000"  
wrote:
> >
> > "They are letting everyone in the dome--except LB."  is exactly 
what 
> > I heard from my marginally on the program friends.
> 
> snip
> 
> 
> 


> It's such a weird world. Apparently there are actually quite a few 
people still being rejected, 
> but my case is (I am told) The Gold Standard.
> 
> If they knew how much it would improve their PR to let me in, I'd 
be in in a heartbeat.
> 
> But they don't.
> 
> L B S
>

***

Hagelin and cronies are barring people from the dome for visiting 
others seen as competition for the hearts and minds of TMers, but 
Hagelin is proud of his association with Ramtha, was in a movie 
produced by and featuring this obvious hoax, and tours the country 
with what the MUM publicity team terms the "prestigious" Phophets 
conference:

http://uspeacegovernment.org/news/2005_03.html

How loopy is Ramtha?:

http://geocities.com/bbrigante/updates2006.html#dance


Hagelin is really not interested in improving the school's PR as 
long as he personally can feel important and be applauded by 
knuckleheads.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[jim_flanegin]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> " presence in the Dome would be "disruptive". 
> > > Disruptive? "
> 
> What is disrupted is Milieu Control.  I'm sure everyone here is 
hip to
> that Lifton concept. http://www.freeminds.org/psych/lifton.htm
> 
> Since so many quality people have bailed on letting them work their
> mojo, it seems like they are just acting out of habit.  The 
movement
> seems to lack the ability to create a new organization that 
respects
> mature individuals with enough spiritual and life experience to 
decide
> things for themselves. It worked better when everyone was in their
> 20's and less self-assured.  From the outside it is fascinating to 
see
> them try to cast the same old spells their a broken wands.
> 
> I wonder if Lifton has studied the oppositional reflex that must 
exist
> even in devoted members, who are still close to the organization.  
It
> seems as if the innocence is so long gone that the movement's words
> would have a completely different effect by this time.
> 
> When I talk with people who still do the program about the 
movement,
> there is so much eye-rolling that it makes me wonder who is more
> turned off to the "teaching".  My guess is that although FFL is a
> small group who are willing to speak up, the eclectic lifestyle and
> practices represented here is more reflective of the majority of
> people still involved with TM than the old-school hardline.  I meet
> people who keep their feelings and practices to themselves for 
fear of
> being cut out of courses.  I would love to know the numbers on both
> these sides.
> 

I also think it comes down nowadays to a simple cost/benefit 
analysis, like anything else. Is there enough benefit that I will 
receive by involving myself with this organization vs. the cost, 
monetary or otherwise, of associating with the organization?

My affinity for the TMO is much more about the organizational 
dynamics than whether I choose to involve myself in alternative  
spiritual esoterica.

I really appreciate the 'Vedic template' that Maharishi has been 
patiently been putting in place for so many years, and I have found 
the TM techniques exceptionally effective at all levels. However the 
TMO has been for me a victim of its own success. The more I achieve 
the less need I have for the organization, which I think is the way 
it is supposed to be- except for those whose dharma it is to work 
within the organization.

Having said that, I am extremely grateful to those on this current 
course. It is having a palpable effect even as far away as where I 
call home, northern California. My partner and I have been noticing 
among other things how the quality of our dreams has changed since 
the course began. I also notice the effect of the course during my 
meditation. Just a livelier time, all around.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[L B Shriver]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "bmorry2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "They are letting everyone in the dome--except LB."  is exactly what 
> I heard from my marginally on the program friends.

snip



It's such a weird world. Apparently there are actually quite a few people still 
being rejected, 
but my case is (I am told) The Gold Standard.

If they knew how much it would improve their PR to let me in, I'd be in in a 
heartbeat.

But they don't.

L B S





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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[Sal Sunshine]

On Aug 22, 2006, at 6:49 PM, authfriend wrote:

> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>>
>> On Aug 22, 2006, at 5:45 PM, authfriend wrote:
>>
>>> I had to supply it to my lawyer when I purchased a
>>> condo recently; the town requires it to transfer the
>>> deed.  And as I noted, a physician I went to for a
>>> flu shot asked for it as well.  It's still fairly
>>> common.

And those are routine occurrences?
>>
>> Only in your world, Judy.
>
> Uh, no, Sal.  It's still fairly common, as I said
> (and the AARP confirms).
>
>> Last time I got a flu shot I paid them 10
>> bucks and they gave me the shot.  I could have been a Martian for
>> all they cared.
>
> And that proves...what, exactly?
>
> My health insurance card, with TEIGIT, has my SS#
> on it.  I complained to them, because I can't carry
> the card in my wallet.  They said they were working
> on a new system, but it wouldn't be ready for some
> time yet.

Well, neither my health insurance card or that for my kids has any SS 
#s on it.  My driver's license used to, but they stopped that years 
ago.  I don't remember whether or not I had to give it to apply for any 
of the credit cards I've had over the years.

> I had to give my SS# to open a bank account six
> five years ago.  You have to give it on most
> credit card applications.  My landlord wanted it
> when I first rented the condo I just bought, also
> five years ago.

And these relate to the TMO how, exactly? Would you describe any of the 
above situations as routine?

SS #s are generally asked for when security issues are at stake, like 
with savings accounts and deeds, or when dealing with large amounts of 
people.  Neither of those situations applies to the TMO courses, 
especially nowadays.
>
> You didn't answer my question, Sal.  I don't think you
> have any actual threat in mind.  You just thought it
> sounded good to use the word "intimidation."

And you've proven my point for me, by admitting you wouldn't give it to 
them.  I think they know perfectly well that people, in general, don't 
like to give them out and probably never have.  I doubt they'd use them 
for anything (since to my knowledge they never actually have)-- It's a 
power trip.  And I don't think getting involved in that kind of game is 
healthy.

And another point--usually when an organization asks you for one, 
that's it.  They don't keep asking you every single time.  These idiots 
just want you to know they've got something on you--again and again.

> And again, see the AARP link, which explains why
> SS#s are routinely used for identification.

I didn't see any link.
>
>>> For the record, if I had to give them my SS# to
>>> go on a course these days, I wouldn't do it, even
>>> if it meant I couldn't go.  I don't trust them to
>>> keep those records secure from people who might
>>> use them for identity theft.
>>
>> So then you *do* think they could be used for nefarious purposes--
>
> Of course.  But that's not why the TMO is asking for
> them, obviously.

OK, why are they asking for them then?
>
>> who else besides people in the TMO would ever have access to that
>> info?
>
> Not everyone in the TMO is necessarily an upstanding
> citizen, first of all.  Some lower-level administrative
> person with financial needs and no scruples might have
> access to a list of SS#s and get ideas.  Lists of SS#s
> are worth big bucks in the identity theft market.  You
> can sell them to brokers, who then sell them to
> individuals who commit the actual identity theft.
>
> Second, there are any number of ways the numbers could
> get to non-TMO people.  Someone could walk in a door
> left unlocked and steal the records; some nitwit TMer
> could throw a batch of unneeded printouts in the trash;
> a janitor could find the records sitting on someone's
> desk; a hacker could break into the computer system if
> it weren't secured properly, etc., etc., etc.
>
> This is why you don't want to have to give out your
> SS# if you can possibly avoid it--because they're
> *worth lots of money*, and even an organization
> with the most spotless motives can be careless about
> how they're handled.
>
> Knowing the level of disorganization and general
> incompetence in the TMO, I simply wouldn't trust them
> to keep the numbers secure.

That's my point exactly.  Whether it's directly by someone with some 
nefarious intent, or simply because some idiot gets careless, you would 
not trust the TMO with potentially sensitive information.  Neither 
would I.

Sal



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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[bmorry2000]

"They are letting everyone in the dome--except LB."  is exactly what 
I heard from my marginally on the program friends.

Sorry L.B.  A lot of people still love you anyways!



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Responses interleaved.
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
 wrote:
> >
> > " presence in the Dome would be "disruptive". 
> > > > Disruptive? "
> > 
> > What is disrupted is Milieu Control.  I'm sure everyone here is 
hip to
> > that Lifton concept. http://www.freeminds.org/psych/lifton.htm
> 
> 
> 
> Nice link. I've seen lists of 20 or so cult charcteristics, but 
this one is both precise and 
> comprehensive.
> 
> 
> > 
> > Since so many quality people have bailed on letting them work 
their
> > mojo, it seems like they are just acting out of habit.  The 
movement
> > seems to lack the ability to create a new organization that 
respects
> > mature individuals with enough spiritual and life experience to 
decide
> > things for themselves. It worked better when everyone was in their
> > 20's and less self-assured.  From the outside it is fascinating 
to see
> > them try to cast the same old spells their a broken wands.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, numerous people here have noted the contradiction inherent in 
treating aging, long-
> term devotees as children and neophytes. Of course, there actually 
are a small number 
> who still prefer it that way.
> 
> 
> > 
> > I wonder if Lifton has studied the oppositional reflex that must 
exist
> > even in devoted members, who are still close to the 
organization.  It
> > seems as if the innocence is so long gone that the movement's 
words
> > would have a completely different effect by this time.
> > 
> > When I talk with people who still do the program about the 
movement,
> > there is so much eye-rolling that it makes me wonder who is more
> > turned off to the "teaching".  My guess is that although FFL is a
> > small group who are willing to speak up, the eclectic lifestyle 
and
> > practices represented here is more reflective of the majority of
> > people still involved with TM than the old-school hardline.  I 
meet
> > people who keep their feelings and practices to themselves for 
fear of
> > being cut out of courses.  I would love to know the numbers on 
both
> > these sides.
> 
> 
> 
> The hard core are definitely a minority here, although there are 
severe methodological and 
> sociological barriers to establishing the numbers.
> 
> Even the more hip and liberated TMers often have localized "hot 
buttons" around certain 
> topics, like M's infallibility or Sthapathya Ved, etc. As a result, 
FF can be a conversational 
> mine field.
> 
> L B S
> 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Yeah, that "disruptive" thing is tough to figure out. They are
> > claiming that it's the decisive 
> > > factor in "most" of the rejections, which totalled 16 when I 
first
> > applied a couple of weeks 
> > > ago. I know 4 or 5 of them personally and still don't get it. 
For
> > example, what's so fucking 
> > > disruptive about David Hawthorne? I'm sure Tim Britton would 
leave
> > his bagpipes outside 
> > > if they asked him nicely. Were they expecting Shiva Ma to 
perform
> > homa on the foma? 
> > > Could it be that David Bousefield was going to ambush CPs with 
his
> > outlaw Deeksha?
> > > 
> > > L B S
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "dhamiltony2k5"
> >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > presence in the Dome would be "disruptive". 
> > > > Disruptive?  Hah,it is about MOJO.  Oh heck L B, Bevan just 
thinks 
> > > > you got more MOJO than Bevan or any Raja worth a million.  It 
is 
> > > > pretty obvious.  Yeah, you're just a weapon of mass 
destruction in 
> > > > their book.
> > > > 
> > > > Best Regards fra FF,
> > > > 
> > > > -Doug
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Oh BTW, L B, the next time you try to apply they will take 
you to 
> > > > the library basement where normal people do not go and then 
show you 
> > > > the 'rack'.  It worked on Galileo. It worked on that wrong 
thinking 
> > > > before, you'll sing like a bird too recanting everything and 
signing 
> > > > about anything to git back in.  Appeasement, it did not work 
before 
> > > > with Hilter either.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
> > > >  wrote:The resistance to my acceptance is 
pretty 
> > > > localized in the upper regions of the
> > > > administration, although the perception there is that it is 
more 
> > > > widespread.
> > > > Therefore
> > > > there is some fear that my presence in the Dome would 
> > > > be "disruptive". 
> > > > 
> > > > Doug writing:  oh heck LB, they just think you got more MOJO 
than 
> > > > Bevan or any Raja worth a million.  It is pretty obvious.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > >
> > > > > Reply below.
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups

[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[curtisdeltablues]

Thanks for the reply.  Lifton and Singer established 8 principles from
their work with Korean war vets.  I don't know Lifton but did know the
late Margret Singer.  She was fascinated by how some modern groups had
refined the techniques to become less obvious and more subtle.  I
think this is a case of knowledge being power.  Knowing the techniques
makes it more difficult to apply them. Even some sales seminars I have
attended  have tried to pull some of these techniques on me, but once
it is identified, it loses a lot of its power to influence.

I appreciated your assessment of  people's ability to discuss topics
reasonably.  I find that to be true of most people when it comes to
deeply held, and particularly spiritual beliefs, not just in the
movement.  Instilling a phobic response to questioning beliefs is a
characteristic to watch for that makes some groups better at
inhibiting critical thinking. 

My definition of what and who "the movement" is has changed
considerably for me from posting here and corresponding with people
like yourself.  It seems there is a small group of people clustered
around the dudes with the Raja crowns, and a much larger, and more
interesting, group who has taken what is valuable from their TM
experience and moved on.  Although I don't meditate myself, I will
always be interested in and connected with TM as part of my history. 
I have enjoyed getting to know the new, cooler movement. living
outside the Raja-domains!  When I was in the movement I was only
interested in getting closer and closer to MMY.  Now, the farther
people are from him the more interesting they are to me.




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Responses interleaved.
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues"
 wrote:
> >
> > " presence in the Dome would be "disruptive". 
> > > > Disruptive? "
> > 
> > What is disrupted is Milieu Control.  I'm sure everyone here is hip to
> > that Lifton concept. http://www.freeminds.org/psych/lifton.htm
> 
> 
> 
> Nice link. I've seen lists of 20 or so cult charcteristics, but this
one is both precise and 
> comprehensive.
> 
> 
> > 
> > Since so many quality people have bailed on letting them work their
> > mojo, it seems like they are just acting out of habit.  The movement
> > seems to lack the ability to create a new organization that respects
> > mature individuals with enough spiritual and life experience to decide
> > things for themselves. It worked better when everyone was in their
> > 20's and less self-assured.  From the outside it is fascinating to see
> > them try to cast the same old spells their a broken wands.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, numerous people here have noted the contradiction inherent in
treating aging, long-
> term devotees as children and neophytes. Of course, there actually
are a small number 
> who still prefer it that way.
> 
> 
> > 
> > I wonder if Lifton has studied the oppositional reflex that must exist
> > even in devoted members, who are still close to the organization.  It
> > seems as if the innocence is so long gone that the movement's words
> > would have a completely different effect by this time.
> > 
> > When I talk with people who still do the program about the movement,
> > there is so much eye-rolling that it makes me wonder who is more
> > turned off to the "teaching".  My guess is that although FFL is a
> > small group who are willing to speak up, the eclectic lifestyle and
> > practices represented here is more reflective of the majority of
> > people still involved with TM than the old-school hardline.  I meet
> > people who keep their feelings and practices to themselves for fear of
> > being cut out of courses.  I would love to know the numbers on both
> > these sides.
> 
> 
> 
> The hard core are definitely a minority here, although there are
severe methodological and 
> sociological barriers to establishing the numbers.
> 
> Even the more hip and liberated TMers often have localized "hot
buttons" around certain 
> topics, like M's infallibility or Sthapathya Ved, etc. As a result,
FF can be a conversational 
> mine field.
> 
> L B S
> 
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Yeah, that "disruptive" thing is tough to figure out. They are
> > claiming that it's the decisive 
> > > factor in "most" of the rejections, which totalled 16 when I first
> > applied a couple of weeks 
> > > ago. I know 4 or 5 of them personally and still don't get it. For
> > example, what's so fucking 
> > > disruptive about David Hawthorne? I'm sure Tim Britton would leave
> > his bagpipes outside 
> > > if they asked him nicely. Were they expecting Shiva Ma to perform
> > homa on the foma? 
> > > Could it be that David Bousefield was going to ambush CPs with his
> > outlaw Deeksha?
> > > 
> > > L B S
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "dhamiltony2k5"
> >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > presence in t

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[Rick Archer]

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi  /& Guidelines?





on 8/24/06 1:20 PM, jyouells2000 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , "nablus108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , Sal Sunshine  
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Those weren't the kinds of records I was talking about, obviously.
> > > 
> > > Any dirt on anyone I'm sure they'd keep somewhere, even any 
> alleged 
> > > dirt.  For all we know, they probably have a database somewhere 
> on 
> > > *future* dirt, and who is most likely to be a contender.  

I don’t think they keep it in a database. I think they keep file folders on everyone. One friend of mine who applied said they referred to an ad for healing services she had placed in the Weekly Reader years ago. I think they actually clipped and saved the ad.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: ME for USA

[nablus108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "nablus108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk"  
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "nablus108"  
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > 
> > > Did the americans manage 1700 ?
> > > 
> > > If not, it is a historic event. First failiure of the TMO.
> > >  
> > > Could have tragic consequenses.
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > Accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord or burn in hell for all 
> > eternity.
> 
> Well that's a rather strange conseption considering that Jesus and 
> Christ are two different personalities. For more information, 
please 
> see: http://www.sharientl.org

 Correct adress: http://www.shareintl.org






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[FairfieldLife] Re: ME for USA

[curtisdeltablues]

"> Accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord or burn in hell for all 
> eternity."

Instilling a  phobia through catastrophic outcome.  Nice work!  Any
chance I can be sent to the Hell with Jimi Hendrix and Robert Johnson?
 I live in Washington DC so I'm sure I can take the heat.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "nablus108"  
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Did the americans manage 1700 ?
> > 
> > If not, it is a historic event. First failiure of the TMO.
> >  
> > Could have tragic consequenses.
> >
> 
> 
> Accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord or burn in hell for all 
> eternity.
>






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[FairfieldLife] Re: ME for USA

[nablus108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "nablus108"  
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Did the americans manage 1700 ?
> > 
> > If not, it is a historic event. First failiure of the TMO.
> >  
> > Could have tragic consequenses.
> >
> 
> 
> Accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord or burn in hell for all 
> eternity.

Well that's a rather strange conseption considering that Jesus and 
Christ are two different personalities. For more information, please 
see: http://www.sharientl.org







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[FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[nablus108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "dhamiltony2k5" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "nablus108" writes: "it's sad really, that the situation for the 
USA 
> now is so grave that
> the TMO seems to loosen up on the gudelines. "
> 
> Doug writing:
> Yes that is the point and it is about the guidelines here & the 
> nature of the meditating community here.  It is about necessity.  
If 
> they (the TMorg) really enforced the guidelines hundreds of people 
> would not qualify to be part of the ME here…  The rank and file and 
> all the echelon of the movement are involved.  Do people lie to get 
> in to the domes?. Probalbly most if it was really pressed.  ShivaMa 
> is not extraordinary really.  There are simply many hundreds of 
> people just like her.  There are hundreds of people like her in the 
> domes now.  The guidelines are just out of line and on the ground 
> the administration is doing the best it can in a theocracy where 
the 
> current project is to try for the ME.  An irony is that Jeanne is 
> actually the tru-beiliever by her experience if anyone is.
> 
> With Kind Regards, 
> -Doug in FF

Sounds like Fairfield is one big disintegrating mess. 






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[FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[jyouells2000]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "nablus108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig"  wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Those weren't the kinds of records I was talking about, obviously.
> > > 
> > > Any dirt on anyone I'm sure they'd keep somewhere, even any 
> alleged 
> > > dirt.  For all we know, they probably have a database somewhere 
> on 
> > > *future* dirt, and who is most likely to be a contender.  
> Anything to 
> > > make someone's life a little more miserable, that's our TMO.
> > > 
> > 
> > This is the group that can't keep the Domes painted, and people are 
> worrying about the 
> > efficiency of the IT deartment...
> > 
> > > Sal
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Aug 23, 2006, at 5:25 PM, Alex Stanley wrote:
> > > 
> > > > There is someone on the course who was asked about his 
> involvement
> > > > with Robin Carlson. Robin Carlson was doing his thing in FF 
> back in
> > > > 1982-83. Think the TMO doesn't keep records? Better think 
> again 'cuz
> > > > they sure as hell
> 
> Yes, lets sincerely hope they do !
>
Actually the IT department is probably fairly efficient, because it
handles accounting (and databases).

JohnY






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[FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[nablus108]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine  
wrote:
> >
> > Those weren't the kinds of records I was talking about, obviously.
> > 
> > Any dirt on anyone I'm sure they'd keep somewhere, even any 
alleged 
> > dirt.  For all we know, they probably have a database somewhere 
on 
> > *future* dirt, and who is most likely to be a contender.  
Anything to 
> > make someone's life a little more miserable, that's our TMO.
> > 
> 
> This is the group that can't keep the Domes painted, and people are 
worrying about the 
> efficiency of the IT deartment...
> 
> > Sal
> > 
> > 
> > On Aug 23, 2006, at 5:25 PM, Alex Stanley wrote:
> > 
> > > There is someone on the course who was asked about his 
involvement
> > > with Robin Carlson. Robin Carlson was doing his thing in FF 
back in
> > > 1982-83. Think the TMO doesn't keep records? Better think 
again 'cuz
> > > they sure as hell

Yes, lets sincerely hope they do !





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[FairfieldLife] Re: ME for USA

[shempmcgurk]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "nablus108" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> 
> Did the americans manage 1700 ?
> 
> If not, it is a historic event. First failiure of the TMO.
>  
> Could have tragic consequenses.
>


Accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord or burn in hell for all 
eternity.






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[FairfieldLife] Camp Ashraf; another Katyn massacre?

[uns_tressor]

I have learned (and I am not very up to speed) that there is a camp 
with 5,000 Iranian dissidents due east of Baghdad and 60 miles from 
the Iranian border.

Iran are demanding that they are handed over as part of a deal for 
their non involvement.

If they get handed over and killed, as seems likely, then would this 
be a major war crime? Is this issue generally known about? Why have 
the Americans not put them in a transport aircraft and got them out 
of the way months or years ago?





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[FairfieldLife] World Talk Radio: Authentic Learning: Adventures in transformative dialogue

[Rick Archer]

Byron Katie interview:

http://www.worldtalkradio.com/show.asp?sid=373




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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[L B Shriver]

Responses interleaved.

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> " presence in the Dome would be "disruptive". 
> > > Disruptive? "
> 
> What is disrupted is Milieu Control.  I'm sure everyone here is hip to
> that Lifton concept. http://www.freeminds.org/psych/lifton.htm



Nice link. I've seen lists of 20 or so cult charcteristics, but this one is 
both precise and 
comprehensive.


> 
> Since so many quality people have bailed on letting them work their
> mojo, it seems like they are just acting out of habit.  The movement
> seems to lack the ability to create a new organization that respects
> mature individuals with enough spiritual and life experience to decide
> things for themselves. It worked better when everyone was in their
> 20's and less self-assured.  From the outside it is fascinating to see
> them try to cast the same old spells their a broken wands.



Yes, numerous people here have noted the contradiction inherent in treating 
aging, long-
term devotees as children and neophytes. Of course, there actually are a small 
number 
who still prefer it that way.


> 
> I wonder if Lifton has studied the oppositional reflex that must exist
> even in devoted members, who are still close to the organization.  It
> seems as if the innocence is so long gone that the movement's words
> would have a completely different effect by this time.
> 
> When I talk with people who still do the program about the movement,
> there is so much eye-rolling that it makes me wonder who is more
> turned off to the "teaching".  My guess is that although FFL is a
> small group who are willing to speak up, the eclectic lifestyle and
> practices represented here is more reflective of the majority of
> people still involved with TM than the old-school hardline.  I meet
> people who keep their feelings and practices to themselves for fear of
> being cut out of courses.  I would love to know the numbers on both
> these sides.



The hard core are definitely a minority here, although there are severe 
methodological and 
sociological barriers to establishing the numbers.

Even the more hip and liberated TMers often have localized "hot buttons" around 
certain 
topics, like M's infallibility or Sthapathya Ved, etc. As a result, FF can be a 
conversational 
mine field.

L B S

> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
> wrote:
> >
> > Yeah, that "disruptive" thing is tough to figure out. They are
> claiming that it's the decisive 
> > factor in "most" of the rejections, which totalled 16 when I first
> applied a couple of weeks 
> > ago. I know 4 or 5 of them personally and still don't get it. For
> example, what's so fucking 
> > disruptive about David Hawthorne? I'm sure Tim Britton would leave
> his bagpipes outside 
> > if they asked him nicely. Were they expecting Shiva Ma to perform
> homa on the foma? 
> > Could it be that David Bousefield was going to ambush CPs with his
> outlaw Deeksha?
> > 
> > L B S
> > 
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "dhamiltony2k5"
>  wrote:
> > >
> > > presence in the Dome would be "disruptive". 
> > > Disruptive?  Hah,it is about MOJO.  Oh heck L B, Bevan just thinks 
> > > you got more MOJO than Bevan or any Raja worth a million.  It is 
> > > pretty obvious.  Yeah, you're just a weapon of mass destruction in 
> > > their book.
> > > 
> > > Best Regards fra FF,
> > > 
> > > -Doug
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Oh BTW, L B, the next time you try to apply they will take you to 
> > > the library basement where normal people do not go and then show you 
> > > the 'rack'.  It worked on Galileo. It worked on that wrong thinking 
> > > before, you'll sing like a bird too recanting everything and signing 
> > > about anything to git back in.  Appeasement, it did not work before 
> > > with Hilter either.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
> > >  wrote:The resistance to my acceptance is pretty 
> > > localized in the upper regions of the
> > > administration, although the perception there is that it is more 
> > > widespread.
> > > Therefore
> > > there is some fear that my presence in the Dome would 
> > > be "disruptive". 
> > > 
> > > Doug writing:  oh heck LB, they just think you got more MOJO than 
> > > Bevan or any Raja worth a million.  It is pretty obvious.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > >
> > > > Reply below.
> > > > 
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "dhamiltony2k5" 
> > >  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >  "L B Shriver"  wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dear Friends at FFLife,
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > >  "I was officially informed on Sunday that I am not considered 
> > > eligible 
> > > > > at this time to 
> > > > >  participate, after nearly a month of having my application "in 
> > > > > process"."
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Of course not.  They would have to eat way too much crow to let 
> > > you in.
> > > > > 
> > 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Steorn: Free Energy?

[Rick Archer]

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Steorn: Free Energy?





on 8/24/06 8:53 AM, uns_tressor at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , cardemaister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com  , Rick Archer  wrote:
> >
> > 5 days ago Steorn, an Irish Company, placed a full page ad in The 
> Economist
> > -- this costs around £140K.
> > Here's the text:
> > 
> > "All great truths begin as Blasphemies"
> > -George Bernard Shaw 
> 
> http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Steorn_Free_Energy

I have had a message from a London meditator who
reckons "This development is rubbish. It will besmerch
the name of good magnetic/electromagnetic workers. Maybe
that is its purpose":
http://www..overunity.com/index.php/topic,1419.0.html  
Uns.

They spent  £140K to besmirch the name of good magnetic/electromagnetic workers? That’s pretty expensive besmirching.

__._,_.___





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[authfriend]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> " presence in the Dome would be "disruptive". 
> > > Disruptive? "
> 
> What is disrupted is Milieu Control.  I'm sure everyone here
> is hip to that Lifton concept.
http://www.freeminds.org/psych/lifton.htm

Wonder why you didn't just quote it; it isn't long:

"Milieu" is a French word meaning "surroundings; environment." Cults 
are able to control the environment around their recruits in a number 
of ways, but almost always using a form of isolation. Recruits can be 
physically separated from society, or they can be warned under threat 
of punishment to stay away from the world's educational media, 
especially when it might provoke critical thinking. Any books, movies 
or testimonies of ex-members of the group, or even anyone critical of 
the group in any way are to be avoided.

Information is carefully kept on each recruit by the mother 
organization. All are watched, lest they fall behind or get too far 
ahead of the thinking of the organization. Because it appears that 
the organization knows so much about everything and everyone, they 
appear omniscient in the eyes of the recruits.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Black List

[Rick Archer]

Title: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Black List





on 8/24/06 12:33 AM, scienceofabundance at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

rick: I am not clear on your numbers: Are you saying that 241 have not 
been accepted (i.e. still in process) and a further 343 rejected?

I’m not sure either. Perhaps the person who gave me the info, who monitors FFL, will clarify.

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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[curtisdeltablues]

" presence in the Dome would be "disruptive". 
> > Disruptive? "

What is disrupted is Milieu Control.  I'm sure everyone here is hip to
that Lifton concept. http://www.freeminds.org/psych/lifton.htm

Since so many quality people have bailed on letting them work their
mojo, it seems like they are just acting out of habit.  The movement
seems to lack the ability to create a new organization that respects
mature individuals with enough spiritual and life experience to decide
things for themselves. It worked better when everyone was in their
20's and less self-assured.  From the outside it is fascinating to see
them try to cast the same old spells their a broken wands.

I wonder if Lifton has studied the oppositional reflex that must exist
even in devoted members, who are still close to the organization.  It
seems as if the innocence is so long gone that the movement's words
would have a completely different effect by this time.

When I talk with people who still do the program about the movement,
there is so much eye-rolling that it makes me wonder who is more
turned off to the "teaching".  My guess is that although FFL is a
small group who are willing to speak up, the eclectic lifestyle and
practices represented here is more reflective of the majority of
people still involved with TM than the old-school hardline.  I meet
people who keep their feelings and practices to themselves for fear of
being cut out of courses.  I would love to know the numbers on both
these sides.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Yeah, that "disruptive" thing is tough to figure out. They are
claiming that it's the decisive 
> factor in "most" of the rejections, which totalled 16 when I first
applied a couple of weeks 
> ago. I know 4 or 5 of them personally and still don't get it. For
example, what's so fucking 
> disruptive about David Hawthorne? I'm sure Tim Britton would leave
his bagpipes outside 
> if they asked him nicely. Were they expecting Shiva Ma to perform
homa on the foma? 
> Could it be that David Bousefield was going to ambush CPs with his
outlaw Deeksha?
> 
> L B S
> 
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "dhamiltony2k5"
 wrote:
> >
> > presence in the Dome would be "disruptive". 
> > Disruptive?  Hah,it is about MOJO.  Oh heck L B, Bevan just thinks 
> > you got more MOJO than Bevan or any Raja worth a million.  It is 
> > pretty obvious.  Yeah, you're just a weapon of mass destruction in 
> > their book.
> > 
> > Best Regards fra FF,
> > 
> > -Doug
> > 
> > 
> > Oh BTW, L B, the next time you try to apply they will take you to 
> > the library basement where normal people do not go and then show you 
> > the 'rack'.  It worked on Galileo. It worked on that wrong thinking 
> > before, you'll sing like a bird too recanting everything and signing 
> > about anything to git back in.  Appeasement, it did not work before 
> > with Hilter either.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "L B Shriver" 
> >  wrote:The resistance to my acceptance is pretty 
> > localized in the upper regions of the
> > administration, although the perception there is that it is more 
> > widespread.
> > Therefore
> > there is some fear that my presence in the Dome would 
> > be "disruptive". 
> > 
> > Doug writing:  oh heck LB, they just think you got more MOJO than 
> > Bevan or any Raja worth a million.  It is pretty obvious.
> > 
> > 
> > >
> > > Reply below.
> > > 
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "dhamiltony2k5" 
> >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > >  "L B Shriver"  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear Friends at FFLife,
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > >  "I was officially informed on Sunday that I am not considered 
> > eligible 
> > > > at this time to 
> > > >  participate, after nearly a month of having my application "in 
> > > > process"."
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Of course not.  They would have to eat way too much crow to let 
> > you in.
> > > > 
> > > > -Doug in FF
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > The resistance to my acceptance is pretty localized in the upper 
> > regions of the 
> > > administration, although the perception there is that it is more 
> > widespread. Therefore 
> > > there is some fear that my presence in the Dome would 
> > be "disruptive". This is essentially 
> > > the Weapons of Mass Destruction argument—it is convenient, but 
> > doesn't match the facts 
> > > on the ground. They don't perceive that most people would rather 
> > have them let me in and 
> > > drop this blacklisting bullshit.
> > > 
> > > Despite that, my application actually did get into the region 
> > where acceptance was a 
> > > possibility. There just wasn't enough momentum behind it to carry 
> > it through this time.
> > > 
> > > From my point of view, this situation represents progress, and I 
> > believe that if you want 
> > > more of something in life, it's good to show appreciation.
> > > 
> > > L B S
> > >
> >
>







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[L B Shriver]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:


major snip

> Clearly you haven't thought all this through at all.




That's true, and now that you mention it, I was a lot happier not thinking 
about it than 
thinking about it.

L B S







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Hell not quite frozen over yet,

[scienceofabundance]

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "markmeredith2002" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>

> LBS, you obviously haven't been active here in the past year or you
> would know the answers to all this.  I mean have there been any
> definitive studies on the effects of the bagpipe on a sidha's
> brainwaves and how that might affect the group coherence in the 
dome?

Actually, there have been several studies, but more on just being  
near someone who once played the bagpipes - it was shown 
definitively that it was NOT necessary to actually hear the  person 
playing the bagpipes, or to even know that the person had ever 
played the bagpipes. A smaller, but still "disruptive", effect was 
found if the subject was near a person who once considered playing 
the bagpipes, but decided against it.  The best reference I can find 
at short notice is 

Offksanvkie, T. S. & Wojiewscki, B.O. (2003). The effects of near 
distance on bagpipe excitations in non-bagpiping adults.  Journal of 
Bagpiping, Trumpeting, and Oboeing, 33(1), 108-134. 


>  And hawthorne doing jyotish readings without giving any of his 
fees
> to the TMO obviously hinders its efforts to create world peace, 
which
> is bad karma, which could result in the lords of karma zapping him
> with a lightning bolt someday, and what if that happened while he 
was
> in the dome and innocent sidhas nearby became collateral damage? 
> Clearly you haven't thought all this through at all.
>






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: : "All applicants come NOW."--Maharishi /& Guidelines?

[Peter]

--- Alex Stanley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:


> There is someone on the course who was asked about
> his involvement
> with Robin Carlson. Robin Carlson was doing his
> thing in FF back in
> 1982-83. Think the TMO doesn't keep records? Better
> think again 'cuz
> they sure as hell do.

Those were fun days in Fairfield with Robin and his
crazy followers. MMY told Bevan to ignore it, but
Bevan  wouldn't. The best was when Robin hired a
helicopter to drop pamphlets over people leaving the
dome after program one afternoon. MIU security was
running around grapping the pamphlets and yelling that
nobody should read them! Pretty funny.






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