[FairfieldLife] Siddhis for enlightenment?
Why does it seem to be necessary to have at least the eight
mahaasiddhis for enlightenment? Well, it looks like one can't
become vitRSNa (YS I 16: guNa-vaitRSNyam) or akusiida (YS
IV 29) as to something one has not experienced or tasted,
can one?
That would be a bit like calling a eunuch a brahmacaarin...?? :D
akusIda or %{akuzIda} mfn. taking no interest or usury , without gain.
vitRSNa mf(%{A})n. id. MBh. ; free from desire , not desirous of
(comp.) BhP. ; (%{A}) f. = next BhP. (cf. under %{vi-tRS}) ; %{-tA} f.
%{-tva} n. freedom from desire , satiety Ka1v.
vaitRSNya n. (fr. %{vi-tRSNa}) quenching of thirst Mn. v , 128 ;
freedom from desire , indifference to (ifc.) MBh. BhP. Yogas. c.
[FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT IF?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: WHAT IF THERE WERE A DRUG THAT: snip What if someone slipped you such a drug without you knowing it and it produced all of the experiences listed above. Would you be able to distinguish what you were experiencing from what you consider real enlightenment? AND, JUST FOR FUN, WHAT IF: * *Every* experience of enlightenment in human history, no matter what the path taken to achieve it, were nothing more (or less) than these same parts of the brain being activated and subjective experiences being provided chemically to the brain? (In other words, it is a *purely* chemical experience, and has nothing to do with anything spiritual at all.) * Enlightenment were nothing more *than* these chemical changes in the brain and how we perceive them subjectively? * ALL of the dogma and mythology that has built up around enlightenment and the characteristics of the enlightened over the centuries was just people trying to come up with some story to account for a purely chemical experience? It's just a what if question, posted to see who can have fun with it, and who it drives up the wall. :-) I think it's interesting that everyone who replied went off on a tangent about drugs, but that wasn't my point. I have very little interest in drugs per se. I'll reiterate my real point, just in case anyone is interested in taking the conversation in that direction. My what if question was about whether there might be **NO** spiritual or religious component to the subjective experience that people have called enlightenment through the ages. That is, whether it might be purely a physiological condition, one that happens for any number of reasons, **NONE** of them related to religion or spirituality. I have no problem with this view, and consider it quite possible. What I've noticed, however, is that a lot of people seem incapable of look- ing at the question that way. They seem to not be able to view the subjective experience of enlightenment as anything *but* a spiritual experience, and in the context of God or realization of God or becoming in tune with the laws of nature or becoming perfect. Me, I tend to believe that all that stuff was just people trying to rationalize a simple physiological experience and come up with socially-acceptable reasons for it, when in fact there may be none. Clearly, if one looks with an unbiased eye at the history of enlight- enment, there is not an ounce of proof that having the experience of what is termed enlightenment makes the person having it any more perfect or any more free from mis- takes or the ability to do things that pretty much everyone considers wrong than anyone else. Historically, there is not an ounce of proof that their subjective experience has anything to do with God or realization of God or attuning themselves to the laws or will of nature. But the myths are still there, in my opinion because humans aren't content with having some experience and just allowing it to be an exper- ience. They have to come up with reasons for the experience. And those reasons always tend to come from the superstitious belief systems that they had before they had the experience or that they concoct around the experience. I guess my only point in even bringing it up in the first place is that I think that we are far more likely to find any truth or meaning- ful information about the phenomenon we call enlightenment from researchers into it as a *purely physiological experience* with *no* religious or spiritual connotations than we are from those who believe in those religious or physical connotations. In other words, scientists investigating a purely drug-related experience would not be tempted to project God or perfection onto reports of that experience. But believers in all of the historical religious or spiritual spec- ulations about what such an experience means will *always* project their beliefs onto it, and thus color and invalidate their findings. Research on enlightenment conducted by believers in the religious or spiritual nature of enlight- enment is *always* going to be bogus, because the believers seemingly cannot divorce their beliefs from what they are investigating.
[FairfieldLife] Re: abandoning thought
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Jan 14, 2009, at 11:28 PM, sparaig wrote: Doesn't sound at all like the Shamatha Project, but instead a gift from a friend in the early 70's. Whether it had anything to do with his research at that time or not, I have no clue. You seem to fail to understand my point: I'll make it clear: someone who practices Buddhism, studies Buddhism: gives their friends special presents of Buddhist retreats, is consulted with on how to phrase questions ABOUT Buddhism when talking to the Dali Lama, is hardly someone outside the tradition, regardless of whether or not they have a Jewish last name. But someone who studies Buddhism does not necessarily practice Buddha- dharma. Maybe he's lying and they lied about there being no Buddhist researchers on the team, but I've seen no real evidence of that, your posturings aside. It would be hard for someone who has spent years researching advanced yogis not to have some interest in how they got that way. These are extraordinary people we're dealing with. In fact I would hope they did have a good grasp of the subject matter, along with the as many of the numerous techniques and styles of meditation that are out there. Otherwise how could they be an expert in their field? There are many scholars of Buddhism who have no interest in practicing Buddhism, but simply researching it. Quite a few are Christians. No surprise here--although some interesting finds I hadn't seen--thanks Lawson. Are you suggesting this guy isn't a practicing Buddhist, regardless of whether or not he goes to Synagogue (or the Uni-Uni Church for that matter)? I haven't followed him around or spied on him, but it has been said (in regards to the Shamatha Project specifically) he is not a Buddhist, so I take that to mean he does not practice buddha-dharma. It wouldn't matter so much to me if he did, simply because I believe Dr. Saron has integrity. But I suspect he just has a deep interest based on meeting some truly extraordinary people. So all TM researchers are full blown TBers that accept all that MMY says without question, unlike the guys who practice Buddhist meditation, study Buddhist thought, are good friends with the Dahli Lama, etc... They aren't Buddhist because they say so, whereas the TM researchers are suspect merely because they practice TM or work at MUM... Lawson
[FairfieldLife] Coffee Prevents Alzheimer's and other coffee lore (was Re: Dear Jericho Jerry)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, pranamoocher bh...@... wrote: Debbie Jarvis- When I was on the CEG at MIU in the late 70's, we heard that Debbie was supposed to be a connoisseur of coffee. So one fine day a bunch of us Gov's/serfs wandered by her travel office in the Admin. Bldg and she offered us a cup of gourmet brew, which was great to have. No discussion was needed about evolution and coffee. This, was back in the day when drinking coffee was taboo at the MIU!!! I wonder if it still is... [ A study in the news, followed by some cool quotes about coffee ] Drinking coffee reduces Alzheimer's risk: study Middle-aged people who consume modest amounts of coffee can significantly lower their risk of developing Alzheimer's disease, according to a new study by Finnish and Swedish researchers released on Thursday. Middle-aged people who drank between three and five cups of coffee a day lowered their risk of developing dementia and Alzheimer's disease by between 60 and 65 percent later in life, said lead researcher on the project, Miia Kivipelto, a professor at the University of Kuopio in Finland and at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm. The study, which was also conducted in cooperation with the National Public Health Institute in Helsinki and which was published in the Journal of Alzheimer's Disease this month, was based on repeated interviews with 1,409 people in Finland over more than two decades. They were first asked about their coffee-drinking habits when they were in their 50s and their memory functions were tested again in 1998, when they were between 65 and 79 years of age. A total of 61 people had by then developed dementia, 48 of whom had Alzheimer's, the researchers said. There are perhaps one or two other studies that have shown that coffee can improve some memory functions (but) this is the first study directed at dementia and Alzheimer's (and) in which the subjects are followed for such a long time, Kivipelto told AFP. She said it remained unclear exactly how moderate coffee drinking helped delay or avoid the onset of dementia, but pointed out that coffee contains strong antioxidants, which are known to counter Alzheimer's. Some studies have also shown that coffee helps protects the nerve system, which can also protect against dementia, she said, pointing out that yet other studies show that coffee protects against diabetes, which in turn is known to be linked to Alzheimer's. No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness. - Sheik Abd-al Kadir, 1587 A.D. A morning without coffee is like sleep. - anonymous I believe humans get a lot done, not because we're smart, but because we have thumbs so we can make coffee. - Flash Rosenberg Decaffeinated coffee is the devil's blend. - anonymous This coffee falls into your stomach, and straightway there is a general commotion. Ideas begin to move like the battalions of the Grand Army of the battlefield, and the battle takes place. Things remembered arrive at full gallop, ensuing to the wind. The light cavalry of comparisons deliver a magnificent deploying charge, the artillery of logic hurry up with their train and ammunition, the shafts of with start up like sharpshooters. Similes arise, the paper is covered with ink; for the struggle commences and is concluded with torrents of black water, just as a battle with powder. - Honore de Balzac Decaffeinated coffee is kind of like kissing your sister. - Bob Irwin Coffee, the finest organic suspension ever devised. - Star Trek: Voyager A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems. - Paul Erdos Coffee smells like freshly ground heaven. - Jessi Lane Adams Caffeine isn't a drug, it's a vitamin! - anonymous It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity. I bet this kind of thing does not happen to heroin addicts. I bet that when serious heroin addicts go to purchase their heroin, they do not tolerate waiting in line while some dilettante in front of them orders a hazelnut smack-a-cino with cinnamon sprinkles. - Dave Barry In Seattle you haven't had enough coffee until you can thread a sewing machine while it's running. - Jeff Bezos Good communication is just as stimulating as black coffee, and just as hard to sleep after. - Anne Morrow Lindbergh Black as the devil, Hot as hell, Pure as an angel, Sweet as love. - Charles Maurice de Talleyrand-Perigord Everybody should believe in something. I believe I'll have another coffee. - anonymous Caffeine is my shepherd; I shall not doze. It maketh me to wake in green pastures: It leadeth me beyond the sleeping masses. It restoreth my buzz: It leadeth me in the paths of consciousness for its name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of addiction, I will fear no Equal: For thou art
[FairfieldLife] Re: was: MIT Blackjack. now: Shemp pierces delusions of grandeur
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mainstream20016 mainstream20...@... wrote: Shemp at his best - he blows away the MIT delusions of grandeur. Great, focused, unrelenting post, Shemp. Thanks. -Mainstream Well, gosh, thanks for appreciating my compulsiveness! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: big snip.. But what happens when the dealer's turn comes and HE goes over 21? Well, he may lose against any player that is still in the game (those who held at 21 or under)...but EVEN THOUGH HE, THE DEALER, HAS TIED THE PLAYER WHO ALSO WENT OVER 21, HE HAS COLLECTED THAT PLAYER'S MONEY ALREADY...HE DOESN'T GIVE IT BACK TO HIM EVEN THOUGH THEY TIED!!! That, my friends, is the SOLE advantage the house has in Blackjack and the SOLE basis for the house making money in Blackjack. And it's also why the MIT people -- even with card counting -- will never, ever beat the house (and despite what the movie and the book may have told you, they didn't beat the house in the long run).
[FairfieldLife] Re: A Passage to India
I just rented and saw for the umpteenth time Lean's Lawrence of Arabia. Hadn't seen it in about 15 years and unlike some other movie classics I have revisited not only did it hold up, it seemed even better than I remembered it. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard J. Williams willy...@... wrote: This is a magnificent and exquisitely wrought film, well nuanced and faithful in its adaptation of E.M. Forster's classic novel of the same name. Director David Lean, who had previously directed such cinematic triumphs as Bridge on the River Kwai and Lawrence of Arabia, outdid himself with this film, which was nominated for eleven Academy Awards and for which Peggy Ashcroft won an Academy Award for Best Supporting Actress, as did Maurice Jarre for Best Score. Amazon Review: 'A Passage to India' Director David Lean http://tinyurl.com/7vmnmv
[FairfieldLife] Winter Poem
WINTER Poem It's winter in Iowa And the gentle breezes blow Seventy miles an hour At thirty-five below. Oh, how I love Iowa When the snow's up to your butt You take a breath of winter And your nose gets frozen shut. Yes, the weather here is wonderful So I guess I'll hang around I could never leave Iowa Cuz I'm frozen to the ground! [http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg16/bennyjensen/snow.gif]
[FairfieldLife] Hillary's Confirmation Hearing for Secretary of State
http://tinyurl.com/9fl2n2
[FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT IF?
In other words, scientists investigating a purely drug-related experience would not be tempted to project God or perfection onto reports of that experience. But believers in all of the historical religious or spiritual spec- ulations about what such an experience means will *always* project their beliefs onto it, and thus color and invalidate their findings. Research on enlightenment conducted by believers in the religious or spiritual nature of enlight- enment is *always* going to be bogus, because the believers seemingly cannot divorce their beliefs from what they are investigating. Since I was the first derailer I'll help you get back on to your topic. Your post is an excellent exposition of what I have concluded. That the traditional understanding of the states of mind brought about by meditation and other spiritual techniques are NOT best understood by people from the past who tended to filter everything through their Uga Booga spin. That was their model for everything. Why does the sun cross the sky? A god pulls it across with a chariot of course! What happens when a person's mind settles down without thought? They are experiencing the source of the whole universe and the home of all the laws of nature (another name for gods). By only viewing these experiences in the most fanciful possible way by following old traditions the public is left with a skepticism that anyone is really experiencing something interesting at all. I think they might figure that if you are imaginative enough to call a silent state of you mind, your big Self (don't forget to use capital letters) then you might just be making the whole thing up. But I know from my own experience that you can alter your mode of functioning. I don't know what it means and I extend that to neither did Maharishi. But is it an interesting aspect of our minds and might be useful in some way outside the self realization model. But it is going to take a lot more time because most thoughtful people are either not inclined to look at it as spiritual people do, or they have their own competing spirituality that interferes. I do think that good scientific methodology can transcend (dare I use the term?) a researcher's bias. You just need some oversight in structuring it from a more impartial party. It doesn't surprise me that the people with the biggest belief load are also the ones most interested in researching meditation. They just need some help containing their enthusiasm is skewing results. TM researchers come off as so innocent that I think the scientific community is not up to speed on how quickly they would ditch the methods of good science to make their guru look at them with approval with the latest research reports. This may be true of other groups. Very interesting angle Turq, thanks for reeling it back. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: WHAT IF THERE WERE A DRUG THAT: snip What if someone slipped you such a drug without you knowing it and it produced all of the experiences listed above. Would you be able to distinguish what you were experiencing from what you consider real enlightenment? AND, JUST FOR FUN, WHAT IF: * *Every* experience of enlightenment in human history, no matter what the path taken to achieve it, were nothing more (or less) than these same parts of the brain being activated and subjective experiences being provided chemically to the brain? (In other words, it is a *purely* chemical experience, and has nothing to do with anything spiritual at all.) * Enlightenment were nothing more *than* these chemical changes in the brain and how we perceive them subjectively? * ALL of the dogma and mythology that has built up around enlightenment and the characteristics of the enlightened over the centuries was just people trying to come up with some story to account for a purely chemical experience? It's just a what if question, posted to see who can have fun with it, and who it drives up the wall. :-) I think it's interesting that everyone who replied went off on a tangent about drugs, but that wasn't my point. I have very little interest in drugs per se. I'll reiterate my real point, just in case anyone is interested in taking the conversation in that direction. My what if question was about whether there might be **NO** spiritual or religious component to the subjective experience that people have called enlightenment through the ages. That is, whether it might be purely a physiological condition, one that happens for any number of reasons, **NONE** of them related to religion or spirituality. I have no problem with this view, and consider it quite possible. What I've noticed, however, is that a lot of people seem incapable of look- ing at the question that way. They seem to not be able to view the
[FairfieldLife] Following Bush's final speech Chris Matthews summarizes Bush
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QKvNavHGvk
[FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT IF?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... wrote: In other words, scientists investigating a purely drug-related experience would not be tempted to project God or perfection onto reports of that experience. But believers in all of the historical religious or spiritual spec- ulations about what such an experience means will *always* project their beliefs onto it, and thus color and invalidate their findings. Research on enlightenment conducted by believers in the religious or spiritual nature of enlight- enment is *always* going to be bogus, because the believers seemingly cannot divorce their beliefs from what they are investigating. Since I was the first derailer I'll help you get back on to your topic. Thanks, Curtis. Your posts probably planted the idea in my head in the first place, but I've been thinking about it lately, and how much prejudicial junk is built into the study of enlightenment. It's even in the language -- believers tend to always refer to it as a higher state of consciousness, not just a different one or an altered one. Your post is an excellent exposition of what I have concluded. That the traditional understanding of the states of mind brought about by meditation and other spiritual techniques are NOT best understood by people from the past who tended to filter everything through their Uga Booga spin. That was their model for everything. Why does the sun cross the sky? A god pulls it across with a chariot of course! This is what drives me up the wall with some of JohnR's posts. He seems intent on reinter- preting all of existence in terms of the Vedas, as if they are somehow the master document, and everything by definition *has* to fit into their vision of things. Lately he's been trying to do it with particle physics. What happens when a person's mind settles down without thought? They are experiencing the source of the whole universe and the home of all the laws of nature (another name for gods). When, in reality, all that we can legitimately say that they are experiencing is the mind free from thoughts. Why isn't that ENOUGH? Probably 95% of the people on the planet would say, if asked, that such a state cannot exist, because they haven't ever experienced it. To me, the thoughtless state is pretty whiz-bang neat *without* all the Uga Booga. By only viewing these experiences in the most fanciful possible way by following old traditions the public is left with a skepticism that anyone is really experiencing something interesting at all. I think they might figure that if you are imaginative enough to call a silent state of you mind, your big Self (don't forget to use capital letters) then you might just be making the whole thing up. Exactly. If the people being tested were being honest, what they would say is that they are experiencing a thoughtless state, and that it feels pretty neat. But when they describe it as merging with the home of all the laws of the universe and enlivening them, who would NOT laugh at them who has not been pre-brainwashed to use and understand that jargon used as a euphemism for something much simpler. To me, the simple version would be easier for people to understand, without the Uga Booga. But I know from my own experience that you can alter your mode of functioning. As do I. I am **NOT** a skeptic about the exis- tence of a state that we could call enlightenment. Been there, done that, even if it only lasted for days or weeks at a time. But I did **NOT** find that I was perfect during those periods of time, or that I was in tune with all the laws of nature or that I was one with God during those periods. I've had these experiences off an on now for 36 years, and I don't even *believe* in God. :-) I don't know what it means and I extend that to neither did Maharishi. Exactly. I think that he did exactly what we see JohnR and others doing in his wake -- consider the old belief system the master document and then try to reinterpret all experience *in terms of it*. I suspect that almost everyone can see the bogosity of such an approach. TM TBs on this forum can see it when Christians do it, but they seem to be unable to see when *they* do it. But is it an interesting aspect of our minds and might be useful in some way outside the self realization model. But it is going to take a lot more time because most thoughtful people are either not inclined to look at it as spiritual people do, or they have their own competing spirituality that interferes. Or, because they have never experienced anything like these phenomena themselves, they have no interest in them. I do think that good scientific methodology can transcend (dare I use the term?) a researcher's bias. You just need some oversight in structuring it from a more impartial party. Or a partial party who is truly open-minded. I really like the Dalai Lama's
[FairfieldLife] SSRS Talk-Guru
Here's a fun little talk that SSRS gave about the Guru function: If you want to come to me … by Guruji January 15, 2009 by Guru Kripa sri-ravishankar If You Want To Come To Me - Sri Sri Praising me is not enough. I am not satisfied by your praises,gratefulness and gratitude. Do not just keep me on the stage, on the altar, put flowers and say, Jai Gurudev!’ Keep me in your heart.When you are grateful, there is also a lot of gratitude and you feel like praising. But all this should be converted into your soul and make you blossom. Once in a while when you have a problem, you come and say JaiGurudev. Don’t say it only some times, say it all the time,everyday and every minute. All these qualities you see in me are also in you. Only when you keep me in your heart, does guru ship arise in you.Otherwise just doing pad puja (worshiping the feet), saluting and running away, nothing will be born in you. If you only want to garland flowers, then go to temples. There are many idols there. There is no need of a Guru then. Not only that, there are many people in the world,who love to sit and be garlanded. Go and garland them. If you have come to me, then change. Change from inside. There is no happiness in the world which you cannot get by being on the path of knowledge. Once you taste this nectar, everything else will be bitter. Once you begin to float in this, you will never experience a lack of anything in any way in your life. Don’t keep me at a distance. By staying far away from me you have no benefit whatsoever. You are just wasting your time and mine too. Whatever I am, you are that too. Whatever you thought was impossible for you, I have come here to show you that it is possible. This body, this prana, has only one mission. It has come for one reason - to introduce you all to your own self, to reveal the true self to you. Who are you? You are truth. You are shiva. You are beauty. See, many people come here. Some come just to visit the place and say, “oh! nice.” some feel nice inside and say, “oh! nice energy!”they take few deep breaths and go back after one or two days in a good state of mind. Few others come and stay a little longer, while, while others just loot every thing. They take every thing. And that is good. Those are the kind of people I want. They must loot everything. The shop is open. So loot all you can. Yah baby!!!
[FairfieldLife] Re: SSRS Talk-Guru
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: I can't decide if Ravi should get an A in Self-Esteem Class, or an F for getting kinda carried away with himself. But one thing I do know is that I know myself fine and it has nothing to do with Shiva. (Or Jesus) It's just me in here and no one else gets any credit for me knowing that. Of course if he want's to call my self beauty I don't mind. I'm having a particularly good hair day today so I am comfortable with that. (My bangs have that waterfall arch effect in the front that places the ends of my bangs right over my right eye. I can tell you if it wasn't for the maddening vagaries of gel I would look this way EVERY day... till the wind hits it.) Oh yeah, and for me praises,gratefulness and gratitude are more than enough, and is MUCH appreciated. (Insincere is OK too if there are not undermining snickers when it is delivered.) I'm deep like that. Here's a fun little talk that SSRS gave about the Guru function: If you want to come to me ⦠by Guruji January 15, 2009 by Guru Kripa sri-ravishankar If You Want To Come To Me - Sri Sri Praising me is not enough. I am not satisfied by your praises,gratefulness and gratitude. Do not just keep me on the stage, on the altar, put flowers and say, Jai Gurudev!â Keep me in your heart.When you are grateful, there is also a lot of gratitude and you feel like praising. But all this should be converted into your soul and make you blossom. Once in a while when you have a problem, you come and say JaiGurudev. Donât say it only some times, say it all the time,everyday and every minute. All these qualities you see in me are also in you. Only when you keep me in your heart, does guru ship arise in you.Otherwise just doing pad puja (worshiping the feet), saluting and running away, nothing will be born in you. If you only want to garland flowers, then go to temples. There are many idols there. There is no need of a Guru then. Not only that, there are many people in the world,who love to sit and be garlanded. Go and garland them. If you have come to me, then change. Change from inside. There is no happiness in the world which you cannot get by being on the path of knowledge. Once you taste this nectar, everything else will be bitter. Once you begin to float in this, you will never experience a lack of anything in any way in your life. Donât keep me at a distance. By staying far away from me you have no benefit whatsoever. You are just wasting your time and mine too. Whatever I am, you are that too. Whatever you thought was impossible for you, I have come here to show you that it is possible. This body, this prana, has only one mission. It has come for one reason - to introduce you all to your own self, to reveal the true self to you. Who are you? You are truth. You are shiva. You are beauty. See, many people come here. Some come just to visit the place and say, âoh! nice.â some feel nice inside and say, âoh! nice energy!âthey take few deep breaths and go back after one or two days in a good state of mind. Few others come and stay a little longer, while, while others just loot every thing. They take every thing. And that is good. Those are the kind of people I want. They must loot everything. The shop is open. So loot all you can. Yah baby!!!
[FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT IF?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@... wrote: That the traditional understanding of the states of mind brought about by meditation and other spiritual techniques are NOT best understood by people from the past who tended to filter everything through their Uga Booga spin. That was their model for everything. Why does the sun cross the sky? A god pulls it across with a chariot of course! Which is ironic since pure consciousness, and the absence or diminishment of the binding influence of samskararas -- more broadly -- the diminishment of past experiential and cultural bias -- should enable a spin-free state of true clarity. Seeing things as they ARE -- absent myriad layers of inner filters, narratives an mind-warping biases. TMO and other schools of thought posit that freedom increases as this non-attachment -- reduction of inner bias -- grows. Ergo, if this model was correct, then the more one transcends, then the more the world should be seen in its transcendental pristine reality -- as it IS. One may have been told ancient (chariots in the sky) or modern narratives upon initiating transcendence practices, but all such narrative should fall off the cliff as the sharp sword of knowledge dismembers and slays myth, bias and reveals what is. Trascendence -- per the theory -- should cleanse and open the doors of perception. The model does not predict what actually occurred in the TMO -- and apparently other transcendence traditions -- and must be discarded by rational beings. Instead of clarity and freedom, we obtained increased biases, ancient narratives having no scientific merit found welcome reception in our hearts, hyper-infusion of what we wanted to see completely obscured what actually was there -- all such perversions grew, not diminished -- both individually and collectively. Thus, either the theory, the model, is wrong, or the method does not yield the fruit it promised. Perhaps transcendence, reduction of bias and distortion within consciousness, actually attracts distortion, like a vacuum attracting dirt. Or the method does not reduce to true transcendence, but some nether world delusion of such -- behind which hidden chains stronger than the ones we sought to dissolve. The proof is in the pudding. Maybe we should have tried the other door. What happens when a person's mind settles down without thought? They are experiencing the source of the whole universe and the home of all the laws of nature (another name for gods). By only viewing these experiences in the most fanciful possible way by following old traditions the public is left with a skepticism that anyone is really experiencing something interesting at all. I think they might figure that if you are imaginative enough to call a silent state of you mind, your big Self (don't forget to use capital letters) then you might just be making the whole thing up. But I know from my own experience that you can alter your mode of functioning. I don't know what it means and I extend that to neither did Maharishi. But is it an interesting aspect of our minds and might be useful in some way outside the self realization model. But it is going to take a lot more time because most thoughtful people are either not inclined to look at it as spiritual people do, or they have their own competing spirituality that interferes. I do think that good scientific methodology can transcend (dare I use the term?) a researcher's bias. You just need some oversight in structuring it from a more impartial party. It doesn't surprise me that the people with the biggest belief load are also the ones most interested in researching meditation. They just need some help containing their enthusiasm is skewing results. TM researchers come off as so innocent that I think the scientific community is not up to speed on how quickly they would ditch the methods of good science to make their guru look at them with approval with the latest research reports. This may be true of other groups. Very interesting angle Turq, thanks for reeling it back. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: WHAT IF THERE WERE A DRUG THAT: snip What if someone slipped you such a drug without you knowing it and it produced all of the experiences listed above. Would you be able to distinguish what you were experiencing from what you consider real enlightenment? AND, JUST FOR FUN, WHAT IF: * *Every* experience of enlightenment in human history, no matter what the path taken to achieve it, were nothing more (or less) than these same parts of the brain being activated and subjective experiences being provided chemically to the brain? (In other words, it is a *purely* chemical experience, and has nothing to do with anything spiritual at all.)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Rigged Trials at Gitmo: Air Force Major David Frakt
Apparently 61 of those freed from Club Gitmo are back on the battlefield. snip main wrote: .or more likely, trying to survive, driving a cab. Maybe they are are training to be suicide bombers using cabs - I wouldn't be surprised. Pentagon press secretary Geoff Morrell said that 61 detainees released from Guantanamo have returned to the fight. Of those, 18 had been confirmed as being directly involved in 'terrorist activities'. Read more: 'Closing Guantanamo, an Obama priority' AFP, January 14, 2009 http://tinyurl.com/8ugu6e --- In FairfieldLife@ yahoogroups. com, Richard J. Williams willy...@.. . wrote: John posted: The Rigged Trials at Gitmo Apparently 61 of those freed from Club Gitmo are back on the battlefield. snip .or more likely, trying to survive, driving a cab.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The dismantling of the TMO as we know it
On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 9:27 AM, nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.comwrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, guyfawkes91 guyfawkes91@ wrote: People with access to the tape library are not selected for courage and insight. HaHa Quote of the week ! This fellow obviously has no idea as to who has the key to the original tapes ! Indeed. Yesterday I came across this wonderful place to shop for DVDs and the like call Pirate Bay (as opposed to Botany Bay, where I think I spent a couple centuries). Man, it's a good thing I have a lot of computers and fast Internet access. Do you know how long it's going to take for me to upload the original tape library to Pirate Bay?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT IF?
On Jan 16, 2009, at 9:52 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote: I do think that good scientific methodology can transcend (dare I use the term?) a researcher's bias. You just need some oversight in structuring it from a more impartial party. It doesn't surprise me that the people with the biggest belief load are also the ones most interested in researching meditation. They just need some help containing their enthusiasm is skewing results. I don't know that this is actually the case. While some leading age meditation researchers may have some unsubstantiated beliefs (we're contacting the unified field, I'm feeling actual presence of Jesus, etc.), most that I am aware of are either atheists, materialists or both and/or they adhere to the rules of a subjective science not necessarily understood (let alone approved of) by the believers of scientism. That is they may of a calibre of scientist who know and understand how to refine attention to the point of being able create a subjective inquiry which can be considered scientific. Just because scientific materialism has caused a belief in a taboo of subjectivity to become fashionable, doesn't render the taboo viable logically or factually nor does it invalidate the possibility of a subjective science. All it really tells us is that scientism is the fashionable belief in our time. Also you should know that there is a school, largely inspired by the late great biologist and neuroscientist Francisco Varela, which looks to create a purely modern scientific model for understanding meditation experiences and their results based on Neurophenomenology. While a certain part of this is about 3rd person realities, i.e. the material exploration of phenomenon, but also includes 1st person methodologies, i.e. subjective science. In order to make 1st person methodologies reasonable and unbiased, it is required that such a subjective scientist refine attention, i.e. hone its instruments of subjectivity, appropriately. And of course the material aspects of these subjective states can also, simultaneously, be explored. Work's like those of Varela, classics really, and the recent The Mindful Brain, by psychiatrist and Attachment expert Dan Siegel are excellent examples of this emerging paradigm.
[FairfieldLife] Rip, Rig and Panic
...one of the most unique and passionate recordings ever made. - Andrew Stevenson 'Rip, Rig and Panic' by Rahsaan Roland Kirk Polygram Records http://tinyurl.com/8t37k5 Other titles of interest: 'We Free Kings' by Rahsaan Roland Kirk Polygram Records http://tinyurl.com/a4ulw7 'Bright Moments' by Rahsaan Roland Kirk Atlantic Records http://tinyurl.com/9o5j5a
[FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT IF?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: Sam Harris is also a resource in this area. Thanks for the info. On Jan 16, 2009, at 9:52 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote: I do think that good scientific methodology can transcend (dare I use the term?) a researcher's bias. You just need some oversight in structuring it from a more impartial party. It doesn't surprise me that the people with the biggest belief load are also the ones most interested in researching meditation. They just need some help containing their enthusiasm is skewing results. I don't know that this is actually the case. While some leading age meditation researchers may have some unsubstantiated beliefs (we're contacting the unified field, I'm feeling actual presence of Jesus, etc.), most that I am aware of are either atheists, materialists or both and/or they adhere to the rules of a subjective science not necessarily understood (let alone approved of) by the believers of scientism. That is they may of a calibre of scientist who know and understand how to refine attention to the point of being able create a subjective inquiry which can be considered scientific. Just because scientific materialism has caused a belief in a taboo of subjectivity to become fashionable, doesn't render the taboo viable logically or factually nor does it invalidate the possibility of a subjective science. All it really tells us is that scientism is the fashionable belief in our time. Also you should know that there is a school, largely inspired by the late great biologist and neuroscientist Francisco Varela, which looks to create a purely modern scientific model for understanding meditation experiences and their results based on Neurophenomenology. While a certain part of this is about 3rd person realities, i.e. the material exploration of phenomenon, but also includes 1st person methodologies, i.e. subjective science. In order to make 1st person methodologies reasonable and unbiased, it is required that such a subjective scientist refine attention, i.e. hone its instruments of subjectivity, appropriately. And of course the material aspects of these subjective states can also, simultaneously, be explored. Work's like those of Varela, classics really, and the recent The Mindful Brain, by psychiatrist and Attachment expert Dan Siegel are excellent examples of this emerging paradigm.
[FairfieldLife] Re: SSRS Talk-Guru
this is it-- exactly the same as Guru Dev said-- that the Guru is the conduit for aligning our minds to pure consciousness, and that we begin first by devoting ourselves to the guru, and then after some time realize the guru within us. i appreciate the concrete distinction that SSRS makes between superficial worship and 24x7 devotion in the heart. to the SSRS analogy, there also comes a time when once the open shop has been fully looted, the devotee must then torch it.:) thanks for sharing this. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: Here's a fun little talk that SSRS gave about the Guru function: If you want to come to me ⦠by Guruji January 15, 2009 by Guru Kripa sri-ravishankar If You Want To Come To Me - Sri Sri Praising me is not enough. I am not satisfied by your praises,gratefulness and gratitude. Do not just keep me on the stage, on the altar, put flowers and say, Jai Gurudev!â Keep me in your heart.When you are grateful, there is also a lot of gratitude and you feel like praising. But all this should be converted into your soul and make you blossom. Once in a while when you have a problem, you come and say JaiGurudev. Donât say it only some times, say it all the time,everyday and every minute. All these qualities you see in me are also in you. Only when you keep me in your heart, does guru ship arise in you.Otherwise just doing pad puja (worshiping the feet), saluting and running away, nothing will be born in you. If you only want to garland flowers, then go to temples. There are many idols there. There is no need of a Guru then. Not only that, there are many people in the world,who love to sit and be garlanded. Go and garland them. If you have come to me, then change. Change from inside. There is no happiness in the world which you cannot get by being on the path of knowledge. Once you taste this nectar, everything else will be bitter. Once you begin to float in this, you will never experience a lack of anything in any way in your life. Donât keep me at a distance. By staying far away from me you have no benefit whatsoever. You are just wasting your time and mine too. Whatever I am, you are that too. Whatever you thought was impossible for you, I have come here to show you that it is possible. This body, this prana, has only one mission. It has come for one reason - to introduce you all to your own self, to reveal the true self to you. Who are you? You are truth. You are shiva. You are beauty. See, many people come here. Some come just to visit the place and say, âoh! nice.â some feel nice inside and say, âoh! nice energy!âthey take few deep breaths and go back after one or two days in a good state of mind. Few others come and stay a little longer, while, while others just loot every thing. They take every thing. And that is good. Those are the kind of people I want. They must loot everything. The shop is open. So loot all you can. Yah baby!!!
[FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT IF?
TurquoiseB wrote: Research on enlightenment conducted by believers in the religious or spiritual nature of enlight- enment is *always* going to be bogus, because the believers seemingly cannot divorce their beliefs from what they are investigating... But what about research conducted by scientists who may not be 'believers'? These characteristics, nine in number, were derived from a study of the literature of spontaneous mystical experiences reported throughout world history from almost all cultures and religions. In studying accounts of these strange, unusual experiences, an attempt was made to extract the universal psychological characteristics as free from interpretation as possible. Scientific evidence indicates that these universal characteristics derived from spontaneous mystical experiences also precisely describe experimental psychedelic ones. Nine characteristics can be listed as follows: 'LSD and Religious Experience' Walter N. Pahnke http://www.psychedelic-library.org/pahnke3.htm
[FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT IF?
with any technique of transcendence, there comes a point where the devotee must make a choice, going with continuing dogmas, or going for realization; enlightenment, at ALL COSTS. it is safe and easy to fool ourselves into thinking if we continue to do right action, as defined by the ego, that the grand glory of enlightenment will be ours-- this is the trap-- for TMO it is following to the letter what the Maharishi said, and for Buddhists it is all the things the Buddhas say-- any tradition of transcendence has this trap. however the goal is actually reached by TRANSCENDING THE DOGMA, whether it is the Buddhist ideals of compassion or whether it is the TMO ideals of living a Vedic life. depending on our path, the dogma must be absolutely transcended in order top reach the goal, and once we are left naked and screaming in the darkness do we have any hope of becoming ourselves, becoming enlightened. anything else is just a circle jerk. lots of the latter going on right here on FFL by the way. :) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, grate.swan no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: That the traditional understanding of the states of mind brought about by meditation and other spiritual techniques are NOT best understood by people from the past who tended to filter everything through their Uga Booga spin. That was their model for everything. Why does the sun cross the sky? A god pulls it across with a chariot of course! Which is ironic since pure consciousness, and the absence or diminishment of the binding influence of samskararas -- more broadly -- the diminishment of past experiential and cultural bias -- should enable a spin-free state of true clarity. Seeing things as they ARE -- absent myriad layers of inner filters, narratives an mind-warping biases. TMO and other schools of thought posit that freedom increases as this non-attachment -- reduction of inner bias -- grows. Ergo, if this model was correct, then the more one transcends, then the more the world should be seen in its transcendental pristine reality -- as it IS. One may have been told ancient (chariots in the sky) or modern narratives upon initiating transcendence practices, but all such narrative should fall off the cliff as the sharp sword of knowledge dismembers and slays myth, bias and reveals what is. Trascendence - - per the theory -- should cleanse and open the doors of perception. The model does not predict what actually occurred in the TMO -- and apparently other transcendence traditions -- and must be discarded by rational beings. Instead of clarity and freedom, we obtained increased biases, ancient narratives having no scientific merit found welcome reception in our hearts, hyper-infusion of what we wanted to see completely obscured what actually was there -- all such perversions grew, not diminished -- both individually and collectively. Thus, either the theory, the model, is wrong, or the method does not yield the fruit it promised. Perhaps transcendence, reduction of bias and distortion within consciousness, actually attracts distortion, like a vacuum attracting dirt. Or the method does not reduce to true transcendence, but some nether world delusion of such -- behind which hidden chains stronger than the ones we sought to dissolve. The proof is in the pudding. Maybe we should have tried the other door.
[FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT IF?
Years ago I posted to Usenet several comments describing my experience searching for the mysterious and legendary substance, the so-called 'magic' mushroom, mentioned by Carlos Casteneda in his great book about don Juan, 'A Yaqui Way of Knowledge'... off wrote: This is scary. You sound really scared. Don't panic - just put down the pipe and take a few deep breaths; eat a candy bar; then try to take a nap. At this point, it would be futile for you to try typing another silly one-liner. He was a sensory feast to behold, seated in the highest position in the room on his throne chair that was placed directly underneath what looked like the same unbrella that Guru Dev hasd sat under as Shankaracharya. The man had a pure white halo that encircled his whole body. Read more: Subject: Galaxy of Fire From: Willytex Newsgroups: alt.meditation.transcendental Date: Mon, Jun 3 2002 http://tinyurl.com/9bwtup
[FairfieldLife] Obama's list of nine religious liberty issues
http://www.au. org/site/ PageServer? pagename= our_efforts_ 2009_nine_ in_09 Obama's list of nine religious liberty issues As Barack Obama assumes the presidency, Americans United for Separation of Church and State has prepared a list of nine religious liberty issues that merit special attention from the White House. Called 9 in '09, this campaign seeks to repair the damage that occurred to the wall of separation between church and state during the Bush administration. Americans United calls on President Obama to make this list a priority. 1. Restrict Faith-Based Funding: The Bush administration' s dangerous executive orders promoting the faith-based initiative should be overridden. Religious organizations should not be singled out for special government treatment and generous tax subsidies. 2. Ban Faith-Based Job Bias: An executive order should be issued barring religiously based job bias in all publicly funded programs. Not one dime in tax funds should go to faith-based organizations that discriminate in hiring. 3. Select Good Judges: Give America judges who support the Bill of Rights, including its church-state separation provision. Our country deserves federal judges who will respect, not eviscerate, the First Amendment. 4. Reform Justice Department: America must have a Justice Department that understands its duty to uphold constitutional rights, not one that parrots the views of extreme Religious Right legal groups. 5. Stop School Vouchers: Cease all federal tax funding for misguided school voucher experiments in Washington, D.C., (or anywhere else) that subsidize religious and other private schools. 6. Protect Military Personnel: Sever the tie between fundamentalist groups and the military. The United States must have a military that doesn't take a stand on theological issues and that does not pressure its service personnel to adopt religious beliefs. 7. Defend Sound Science: Base public policy on science, not theology. Public policy on issues such as stem-cell research and education about human origins must be based on science, not religious dogma. 8. Resist Church Politicking: Oppose attempts to overturn the federal ban on church politicking. No tax-exempt house of worship should be permitted to engage in partisan politicking by endorsing or opposing candidates for public office. 9. Oppose Sectarian Symbolism: Use the presidential bully pulpit to oppose sectarian resolutions in Congress. We must see an end to polarizing resolutions by Congress that promote one faith over others, thus sending the message that some Americans are second-class citizens. http://www.au. org/site/ PageServer? pagename= our_efforts_ 2009_nine_ in_09 ;
[FairfieldLife] People who continue to meditate
Pasted below is an email I received today from an old highschool classmate whom I apparently initiated back in '73, and the first part of my reply to him. Interesting in light of my guessistimation the other day re how many people might still be out there meditating but not part of any association with the TMO. ** From: H..., Joe - St Louis, MO Subject: email from Joe H... To: reavisma...@sbcglobal.net Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 7:11 AM Mark, How are you doing ? I have not seen you since I took the TM class from you at St.Louis U in 1973. I have been meditating almost daily since then. It works for me ! Thanks, Joe H... [first part of my reply] Joe, great to hear from you! And happy that you're still meditating and enjoy it. It's funny, too, because for several years now I've participated in an online forum, FairfieldLife, that is primarily (though not entirely) with former TM people. One of the more recent discussion threads had to do with the topic of whether or not many people who learned TM early on, but didn't get involved in the TM movement, might continue to meditate. I voiced the opinion that of the millions who were initiated, perhaps only a few thousand were still meditators. So I'm sitting here feeling a little chastened after reading your message.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT IF?
On Jan 16, 2009, at 12:02 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote: however the goal is actually reached by TRANSCENDING THE DOGMA, whether it is the Buddhist ideals of compassion or whether it is the TMO ideals of living a Vedic life. It sounds like you lack an experiential understanding of the difference between relative compassion and absolute compassion or what the nature of consciousness actually is. There's ultimately nothing to transcend; what a silly belief.
[FairfieldLife] The Terrorist's Exit Speech
Anyone else bother to watch Dubya's Exit Speech last night. Pretty pathetic. He tried his best to terrorize the country again with talk about terrorists trying to take over the country. Let's see, they already have from what I see. They ran the White House for the last 8 years and robbed us of our money, our jobs, our houses while destroying the country as well as others abroad. What a loser you are, Dubya. You made your little place in history as the worst President the USA has ever had. Hell even the local news opened that story with worst President talking about how even Nixon ranks higher. Good riddance to bad rubbish!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Reinventing the sacred; Get religious to improve self control?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: From atheist materialist Deric Bownd's MindBlog: Reinventing the sacred Those of us who are hard core materialists and have no use for explanations of the natural order provided by any of the main religions do have the problem of aridity. Being an atheistic secularist is not as warm and cuddly as the warm blanket of religious certainty and the social support provided by some religious settings. Even though I agree with sentiments in such recent books as The God Delusion, The end of Faith and God is not Great I wish they could come forward with more compelling alternatives for maintaining the robustness of our evolved psychology. Stuart Kauffman, the guy who has done a number of books on chaos, self organization, and emergence theory, has stepped forward to offer a new book, Reinventing the Sacred, in which he suggests that we turn our reverence towards a natural God seen not as a supernatural Creator but as the natural creativity in the universe - a universe in which the unpredictable emergence of novelty is a daily occurrence. If we reinvent the sacred to mean the wonder of the creativity in the universe, biosphere, human history, and culture, are we not inevitably invited to honor all of life and the planet that sustains it? Noble sentiments, indeed, but still not developed into a form accessible or useful to the vast majority of humans who crave certainly and structure in their lives. Unpredictable emergence of novelty is not exactly a warm blanket. I wish I had any better ideas. Get religious to improve self control?  Here is a curious piece by John Tierney noting the work of Michael McCullouch, who provides evidence that religiosity correlates with higher self-control among adults. âBrain-scan studies have shown that when people pray or meditate, thereâs a lot of activity in two parts of brain that are important for self-regulation and control of attention and emotion,â he said. âThe rituals that religions have been encouraging for thousands of years seem to be a kind of anaerobic workout for self- control.â In a study published by the University of Maryland in 2003, students who were subliminally exposed to religious words (like God, prayer or bible) were slower to recognize words associated with temptations (like drugs or premarital sex). Conversely, when they were primed with the temptation words, they were quicker to recognize the religious words. What should a heathen like myself do? Dr. McCulloughâs advice is to try replicating some of the religious mechanisms that seem to improve self-control, like private meditation or public involvement with an organization that has strong ideals. Charlie Lutes pointed out religion and spirituality are not the same in one of his talks and, one of the ancient Chinese sages observed that organized religion is the last place to go for understanding. Unpredictable emergence of novelty looks like another term for Murphy's law and, people needing predictability, should maybe be working on their predicting. I didn't see it mentioned anywhere but I think that enlightenment would include Mr. Murphy working in your best interest. N.
[FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT IF?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Jan 16, 2009, at 12:02 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote: however the goal is actually reached by TRANSCENDING THE DOGMA, whether it is the Buddhist ideals of compassion or whether it is the TMO ideals of living a Vedic life. It sounds like you lack an experiential understanding of the difference between relative compassion and absolute compassion or what the nature of consciousness actually is. There's ultimately nothing to transcend; what a silly belief. it sounds to me as if you are claiming to be enlightened. or you are trapped by dogma. which is it please?
[FairfieldLife] Re: People who continue to meditate
glad to have one more in the plus column-- i think Sal was pretty accurate that around 5-10% still do the do. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Marek Reavis reavisma...@... wrote: Pasted below is an email I received today from an old highschool classmate whom I apparently initiated back in '73, and the first part of my reply to him. Interesting in light of my guessistimation the other day re how many people might still be out there meditating but not part of any association with the TMO. ** From: H..., Joe - St Louis, MO Subject: email from Joe H... To: reavisma...@... Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 7:11 AM Mark, How are you doing ? I have not seen you since I took the TM class from you at St.Louis U in 1973. I have been meditating almost daily since then. It works for me ! Thanks, Joe H... [first part of my reply] Joe, great to hear from you! And happy that you're still meditating and enjoy it. It's funny, too, because for several years now I've participated in an online forum, FairfieldLife, that is primarily (though not entirely) with former TM people. One of the more recent discussion threads had to do with the topic of whether or not many people who learned TM early on, but didn't get involved in the TM movement, might continue to meditate. I voiced the opinion that of the millions who were initiated, perhaps only a few thousand were still meditators. So I'm sitting here feeling a little chastened after reading your message.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT IF?
On Jan 16, 2009, at 12:33 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Jan 16, 2009, at 12:02 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote: however the goal is actually reached by TRANSCENDING THE DOGMA, whether it is the Buddhist ideals of compassion or whether it is the TMO ideals of living a Vedic life. It sounds like you lack an experiential understanding of the difference between relative compassion and absolute compassion or what the nature of consciousness actually is. There's ultimately nothing to transcend; what a silly belief. it sounds to me as if you are claiming to be enlightened. or you are trapped by dogma. which is it please? I'm afraid you're a bit too binary for me my dear!
[FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT IF?
with any technique of transcendence, there comes a point where the devotee must make a choice, going with continuing dogmas, or going for realization; enlightenment, at ALL COSTS. it is safe and easy to fool ourselves into thinking if we continue to do right action, as defined by the ego, that the grand glory of enlightenment will be ours-- this is the trap-- for TMO it is following to the letter what the Maharishi said, and for Buddhists it is all the things the Buddhas say-- any tradition of transcendence has this trap. however the goal is actually reached by TRANSCENDING THE DOGMA, whether it is the Buddhist ideals of compassion or whether it is the TMO ideals of living a Vedic life. depending on our path, the dogma must be absolutely transcended in order top reach the goal, and once we are left naked and screaming in the darkness do we have any hope of becoming ourselves, becoming enlightened. anything else is just a circle jerk. lots of the latter going on right here on FFL by the way. :) On the other hand, there is sometimes a value in following the right action (rules) of an Internet chat group, because when you transcend those rules and overpost, you are left naked and screaming in the darkness of not being able to post for a whole week. See you after midnight GMT Friday, September 23rd, hon. You might want to spend some of the time until then becoming yourself. But if yourself's ability to transcend is anything like yourself's ability to count, I wouldn't... uh...count on becoming enlightened. :-)
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: WHAT IF?] vaj the enlightened one
got it --holy crap! vaj thinks he is enlightened! that is a hoot. so you really think you are a Buddha, dude? its funny, because you behave so arrogantly and caustically here and you want us to all believe it is the expression of your absolute compassion- lol. this, ladies and gentlemen, is -precisely- what i am talking about when i said a devotee must transcend the dogma in order to gain the everlasting freedom of enlightenment. what vaj does (besides using this silly name) is justify all of his anger and arrogance in terms of thinking it is absolute compassion that he is expressing. this is -exactly- the trap i was talking about-- making a mood, due to fear of questioning, or going against, the dogma of one's tradition. confusing Dharma with Dogma. what is essential if we really want to get liberated, and not just fool ourselves as vaj has done, is absolutely transcend the dogma of our tradition. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, my servant vaj for being a perfect illustration of what i was talking about. your timing could not have been better! :) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jan 16, 2009, at 12:02 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote: however the goal is actually reached by TRANSCENDING THE DOGMA, whether it is the Buddhist ideals of compassion or whether it is the TMO ideals of living a Vedic life. It sounds like you lack an experiential understanding of the difference between relative compassion and absolute compassion or what the nature of consciousness actually is. There's ultimately nothing to transcend; what a silly belief. it sounds to me as if you are claiming to be enlightened. or you are trapped by dogma. which is it please?
[FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT IF?
no problem hon-- had some good stuff to say-- as vaj just demonstrated, timing is everything-- have fun without me! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: with any technique of transcendence, there comes a point where the devotee must make a choice, going with continuing dogmas, or going for realization; enlightenment, at ALL COSTS. it is safe and easy to fool ourselves into thinking if we continue to do right action, as defined by the ego, that the grand glory of enlightenment will be ours-- this is the trap-- for TMO it is following to the letter what the Maharishi said, and for Buddhists it is all the things the Buddhas say-- any tradition of transcendence has this trap. however the goal is actually reached by TRANSCENDING THE DOGMA, whether it is the Buddhist ideals of compassion or whether it is the TMO ideals of living a Vedic life. depending on our path, the dogma must be absolutely transcended in order top reach the goal, and once we are left naked and screaming in the darkness do we have any hope of becoming ourselves, becoming enlightened. anything else is just a circle jerk. lots of the latter going on right here on FFL by the way. :) On the other hand, there is sometimes a value in following the right action (rules) of an Internet chat group, because when you transcend those rules and overpost, you are left naked and screaming in the darkness of not being able to post for a whole week. See you after midnight GMT Friday, September 23rd, hon. You might want to spend some of the time until then becoming yourself. But if yourself's ability to transcend is anything like yourself's ability to count, I wouldn't... uh...count on becoming enlightened. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT IF?
exactly what i would expect you to say-- in other words you want to keep your cake (ego) and eat it too! perfect-- you are proving my point every time you open that itty bitty little mouth of yours! right on-- thank you again, my servant vaj!:) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Jan 16, 2009, at 12:33 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jan 16, 2009, at 12:02 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote: however the goal is actually reached by TRANSCENDING THE DOGMA, whether it is the Buddhist ideals of compassion or whether it is the TMO ideals of living a Vedic life. It sounds like you lack an experiential understanding of the difference between relative compassion and absolute compassion or what the nature of consciousness actually is. There's ultimately nothing to transcend; what a silly belief. it sounds to me as if you are claiming to be enlightened. or you are trapped by dogma. which is it please? I'm afraid you're a bit too binary for me my dear!
[FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT IF?
i want to make a point here about enlightenment-- vaj argues below that he can both follow the dogma, and be -partially- enlightened. THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE. unlike what his teachers have taught him (read $$$ and power for THEM), the experience of enlightenment is one of total freedom and complete independence. there is no need in such a state to refer back to where we are trying to go. another servant to my point here is Barry who frequently mentions he was enlightened once, for a short time. this impermanent witnessing experience has nothing to do with enlightenment either. vaj argues the point that someone who has reached the destination needs to continue to look at the map. speaking of absolutes, this is absolute garbage.:) while enlightenment is not a static state, there is no relationship between religious dogma and enlightenment. dogma is useful for pointing us in the right direction, but is then naturally discarded once the goal is reached. many seekers like Barry and vaj hold on to dogma because it is a convenient way of not letting go completely of their ego. fine-- no problem, but they shouldn't try to justify it in all sorts of bizarre ways. enlightenment is straightforward. no caveats. you are or you aren't, no dogma and no excuses. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradh...@... wrote: On Jan 16, 2009, at 12:33 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jan 16, 2009, at 12:02 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote: however the goal is actually reached by TRANSCENDING THE DOGMA, whether it is the Buddhist ideals of compassion or whether it is the TMO ideals of living a Vedic life. It sounds like you lack an experiential understanding of the difference between relative compassion and absolute compassion or what the nature of consciousness actually is. There's ultimately nothing to transcend; what a silly belief. it sounds to me as if you are claiming to be enlightened. or you are trapped by dogma. which is it please? I'm afraid you're a bit too binary for me my dear!
[FairfieldLife] Man refuses to drive 'No God' bus
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7832647.stm maybe the slogan for a FFL bus should be: There's probably no enlightenment so don't worry and enjoy your life certainly FFL and the TMO don't inspire much confidence in enlightenment etc
[FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT IF?
-Depends on how you define DOGMA. Ramakrishna remained a devotee of Kali after Self-Realization (Aurobindo - the Divine Mother, likewise); and Ramana remained a devotee of Arunachala Shiva. Would these relationships be dogmas? -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@... wrote: with any technique of transcendence, there comes a point where the devotee must make a choice, going with continuing dogmas, or going for realization; enlightenment, at ALL COSTS. it is safe and easy to fool ourselves into thinking if we continue to do right action, as defined by the ego, that the grand glory of enlightenment will be ours-- this is the trap-- for TMO it is following to the letter what the Maharishi said, and for Buddhists it is all the things the Buddhas say-- any tradition of transcendence has this trap. however the goal is actually reached by TRANSCENDING THE DOGMA, whether it is the Buddhist ideals of compassion or whether it is the TMO ideals of living a Vedic life. depending on our path, the dogma must be absolutely transcended in order top reach the goal, and once we are left naked and screaming in the darkness do we have any hope of becoming ourselves, becoming enlightened. anything else is just a circle jerk. lots of the latter going on right here on FFL by the way. :) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, grate.swan no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: That the traditional understanding of the states of mind brought about by meditation and other spiritual techniques are NOT best understood by people from the past who tended to filter everything through their Uga Booga spin. That was their model for everything. Why does the sun cross the sky? A god pulls it across with a chariot of course! Which is ironic since pure consciousness, and the absence or diminishment of the binding influence of samskararas -- more broadly -- the diminishment of past experiential and cultural bias -- should enable a spin-free state of true clarity. Seeing things as they ARE -- absent myriad layers of inner filters, narratives an mind-warping biases. TMO and other schools of thought posit that freedom increases as this non-attachment -- reduction of inner bias -- grows. Ergo, if this model was correct, then the more one transcends, then the more the world should be seen in its transcendental pristine reality -- as it IS. One may have been told ancient (chariots in the sky) or modern narratives upon initiating transcendence practices, but all such narrative should fall off the cliff as the sharp sword of knowledge dismembers and slays myth, bias and reveals what is. Trascendence - - per the theory -- should cleanse and open the doors of perception. The model does not predict what actually occurred in the TMO -- and apparently other transcendence traditions -- and must be discarded by rational beings. Instead of clarity and freedom, we obtained increased biases, ancient narratives having no scientific merit found welcome reception in our hearts, hyper-infusion of what we wanted to see completely obscured what actually was there -- all such perversions grew, not diminished -- both individually and collectively. Thus, either the theory, the model, is wrong, or the method does not yield the fruit it promised. Perhaps transcendence, reduction of bias and distortion within consciousness, actually attracts distortion, like a vacuum attracting dirt. Or the method does not reduce to true transcendence, but some nether world delusion of such -- behind which hidden chains stronger than the ones we sought to dissolve. The proof is in the pudding. Maybe we should have tried the other door.
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: WHAT IF?] Bevan and John Hagelin = Barry and vaj
one more point, to bring some balance vis a vis Buddhists and TMO, Barry and vaj are a lot more like Bevan and John Hagelin that it may appear. Although Barry and vaj see their allegiance to His Holiness the Dalai Lama and Bevan and John see their allegiance to the Maharishi, all four of them are operating in much the same manner. if SSRS is asking us to loot the store, all four of these guys are living in the halfway house. all are trying to both be dogmatic and at the same time gain enlightenment. there is absolutely no difference between trying to hold onto the ego in Buddhism and within the TMO. NO difference. sure, as with Buddhist practice, you may think that if you do good stuff for others, then you are becoming enlightened. same as living in a vastu house in the TMO. the initial AHA with both practices is useful in broadening the mind. but as Bevan, John, Barry and vaj so openly demonstrate, an addiction to dogma will never result in enlightenment. all you end up with is mood making. it is clear to anyone on this board that both Barry and vaj can be really nasty guys. and both too espouse compassion. this is identical to Bevan and John, who on the one hand espouse a Vedic lifestyle, while humping married women on the side. no difference. there is no way to fake the goal of a spiritual tradition by continuing to follow dogma. all four of these seekers are ego tripping, and all four are never going to gain enlightenment using that approach. sorry to pick on you guys, Barry and vaj-- its just that you are perfect servants for the point i am making.:) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@... wrote: i want to make a point here about enlightenment-- vaj argues below that he can both follow the dogma, and be -partially- enlightened. THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE. unlike what his teachers have taught him (read $$$ and power for THEM), the experience of enlightenment is one of total freedom and complete independence. there is no need in such a state to refer back to where we are trying to go. another servant to my point here is Barry who frequently mentions he was enlightened once, for a short time. this impermanent witnessing experience has nothing to do with enlightenment either. vaj argues the point that someone who has reached the destination needs to continue to look at the map. speaking of absolutes, this is absolute garbage.:) while enlightenment is not a static state, there is no relationship between religious dogma and enlightenment. dogma is useful for pointing us in the right direction, but is then naturally discarded once the goal is reached. many seekers like Barry and vaj hold on to dogma because it is a convenient way of not letting go completely of their ego. fine-- no problem, but they shouldn't try to justify it in all sorts of bizarre ways. enlightenment is straightforward. no caveats. you are or you aren't, no dogma and no excuses. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jan 16, 2009, at 12:33 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jan 16, 2009, at 12:02 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote: however the goal is actually reached by TRANSCENDING THE DOGMA, whether it is the Buddhist ideals of compassion or whether it is the TMO ideals of living a Vedic life. It sounds like you lack an experiential understanding of the difference between relative compassion and absolute compassion or what the nature of consciousness actually is. There's ultimately nothing to transcend; what a silly belief. it sounds to me as if you are claiming to be enlightened. or you are trapped by dogma. which is it please? I'm afraid you're a bit too binary for me my dear!
[FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT IF?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifux...@... wrote: -Depends on how you define DOGMA. Ramakrishna remained a devotee of Kali after Self-Realization (Aurobindo - the Divine Mother, likewise); and Ramana remained a devotee of Arunachala Shiva. Would these relationships be dogmas? not at all-- devotion doesn't codify though or action. it is a simple and natural alignment of the heart. devotion to Buddha for example doesn't dictate any particular action or behavior. following the dogma that has grown up around the Buddha, does. same with the TMO-- which codifies certain activities in order to gain enlightenment, as opposed to a natural and simple devotion to Guru Dev. True devotion is an expression of freedom- absolute freedom. dogma is an expression of absolute prison. devotion is a straightforward path to the object of devotion. dogma presupposes specific thoughts or actions are necessary in order to culture a relationship with the suppsed object of devotion. this is a perversion of devotion. this is why i used Bevan, Barry, vaj, and John H. as people that are addicted to dogma-- the real TBs. when any of them feels a certain way, they are unable to openly express it, because they are constrained that acting naturally will conflict with the dogma that they are addicted to. this is a sad mangling of the qualities of the Buddha or of Guru Dev. nonetheless it is the trade off that these individuals, and many others, make, in order to not fully lose themselves in the absolute freedom guaranteed by enlightenment.
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: WHAT IF?] Bevan and John Hagelin = Barry and vaj
-Your definition of dogma may be overly broad. It's not the content, but the character of binding duality. Thus, to assess another person as you are doing is rather presumptuous; since you have expressed various political viewpoints. By your same approach, your political viewpoints can just as easily be construed as dogma. To be really consistent, you would have to come to the absurd conclusion that Ramana Maharshi has not Enlightened since he continued to be a devotee of Arunachala Shiva. -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@... wrote: one more point, to bring some balance vis a vis Buddhists and TMO, Barry and vaj are a lot more like Bevan and John Hagelin that it may appear. Although Barry and vaj see their allegiance to His Holiness the Dalai Lama and Bevan and John see their allegiance to the Maharishi, all four of them are operating in much the same manner. if SSRS is asking us to loot the store, all four of these guys are living in the halfway house. all are trying to both be dogmatic and at the same time gain enlightenment. there is absolutely no difference between trying to hold onto the ego in Buddhism and within the TMO. NO difference. sure, as with Buddhist practice, you may think that if you do good stuff for others, then you are becoming enlightened. same as living in a vastu house in the TMO. the initial AHA with both practices is useful in broadening the mind. but as Bevan, John, Barry and vaj so openly demonstrate, an addiction to dogma will never result in enlightenment. all you end up with is mood making. it is clear to anyone on this board that both Barry and vaj can be really nasty guys. and both too espouse compassion. this is identical to Bevan and John, who on the one hand espouse a Vedic lifestyle, while humping married women on the side. no difference. there is no way to fake the goal of a spiritual tradition by continuing to follow dogma. all four of these seekers are ego tripping, and all four are never going to gain enlightenment using that approach. sorry to pick on you guys, Barry and vaj-- its just that you are perfect servants for the point i am making.:) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: i want to make a point here about enlightenment-- vaj argues below that he can both follow the dogma, and be -partially- enlightened. THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE. unlike what his teachers have taught him (read $$$ and power for THEM), the experience of enlightenment is one of total freedom and complete independence. there is no need in such a state to refer back to where we are trying to go. another servant to my point here is Barry who frequently mentions he was enlightened once, for a short time. this impermanent witnessing experience has nothing to do with enlightenment either. vaj argues the point that someone who has reached the destination needs to continue to look at the map. speaking of absolutes, this is absolute garbage.:) while enlightenment is not a static state, there is no relationship between religious dogma and enlightenment. dogma is useful for pointing us in the right direction, but is then naturally discarded once the goal is reached. many seekers like Barry and vaj hold on to dogma because it is a convenient way of not letting go completely of their ego. fine-- no problem, but they shouldn't try to justify it in all sorts of bizarre ways. enlightenment is straightforward. no caveats. you are or you aren't, no dogma and no excuses. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jan 16, 2009, at 12:33 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jan 16, 2009, at 12:02 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote: however the goal is actually reached by TRANSCENDING THE DOGMA, whether it is the Buddhist ideals of compassion or whether it is the TMO ideals of living a Vedic life. It sounds like you lack an experiential understanding of the difference between relative compassion and absolute compassion or what the nature of consciousness actually is. There's ultimately nothing to transcend; what a silly belief. it sounds to me as if you are claiming to be enlightened. or you are trapped by dogma. which is it please? I'm afraid you're a bit too binary for me my dear!
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: WHAT IF?] Bevan and John Hagelin = Barry and vaj
i think my point is much clearer in my post to specifically address your question. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifux...@... wrote: -Your definition of dogma may be overly broad. It's not the content, but the character of binding duality. Thus, to assess another person as you are doing is rather presumptuous; since you have expressed various political viewpoints. By your same approach, your political viewpoints can just as easily be construed as dogma. To be really consistent, you would have to come to the absurd conclusion that Ramana Maharshi has not Enlightened since he continued to be a devotee of Arunachala Shiva. -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: one more point, to bring some balance vis a vis Buddhists and TMO, Barry and vaj are a lot more like Bevan and John Hagelin that it may appear. Although Barry and vaj see their allegiance to His Holiness the Dalai Lama and Bevan and John see their allegiance to the Maharishi, all four of them are operating in much the same manner. if SSRS is asking us to loot the store, all four of these guys are living in the halfway house. all are trying to both be dogmatic and at the same time gain enlightenment. there is absolutely no difference between trying to hold onto the ego in Buddhism and within the TMO. NO difference. sure, as with Buddhist practice, you may think that if you do good stuff for others, then you are becoming enlightened. same as living in a vastu house in the TMO. the initial AHA with both practices is useful in broadening the mind. but as Bevan, John, Barry and vaj so openly demonstrate, an addiction to dogma will never result in enlightenment. all you end up with is mood making. it is clear to anyone on this board that both Barry and vaj can be really nasty guys. and both too espouse compassion. this is identical to Bevan and John, who on the one hand espouse a Vedic lifestyle, while humping married women on the side. no difference. there is no way to fake the goal of a spiritual tradition by continuing to follow dogma. all four of these seekers are ego tripping, and all four are never going to gain enlightenment using that approach. sorry to pick on you guys, Barry and vaj-- its just that you are perfect servants for the point i am making.:) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: i want to make a point here about enlightenment-- vaj argues below that he can both follow the dogma, and be -partially- enlightened. THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE. unlike what his teachers have taught him (read $$$ and power for THEM), the experience of enlightenment is one of total freedom and complete independence. there is no need in such a state to refer back to where we are trying to go. another servant to my point here is Barry who frequently mentions he was enlightened once, for a short time. this impermanent witnessing experience has nothing to do with enlightenment either. vaj argues the point that someone who has reached the destination needs to continue to look at the map. speaking of absolutes, this is absolute garbage.:) while enlightenment is not a static state, there is no relationship between religious dogma and enlightenment. dogma is useful for pointing us in the right direction, but is then naturally discarded once the goal is reached. many seekers like Barry and vaj hold on to dogma because it is a convenient way of not letting go completely of their ego. fine- - no problem, but they shouldn't try to justify it in all sorts of bizarre ways. enlightenment is straightforward. no caveats. you are or you aren't, no dogma and no excuses. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jan 16, 2009, at 12:33 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Jan 16, 2009, at 12:02 PM, enlightened_dawn11 wrote: however the goal is actually reached by TRANSCENDING THE DOGMA, whether it is the Buddhist ideals of compassion or whether it is the TMO ideals of living a Vedic life. It sounds like you lack an experiential understanding of the difference between relative compassion and absolute compassion or what the nature of consciousness actually is. There's ultimately nothing to transcend; what a silly belief. it sounds to me as if you are claiming to be enlightened. or you are trapped by dogma. which is it please? I'm afraid you're a bit too binary for me my dear!
[FairfieldLife] Gallup: Obama Wins 83% Approval Rating for Transition
PRINCETON, NJ -- President-elect Barack Obama receives a remarkably high 83% approval rating for the way in which he has handled the presidential transition, significantly higher than the approval level for either of his immediate predecessors just before they first took office. Obama's transition approval rating has actually increased slightly over the last month, despite the fact that he has encountered a few speed bumps in terms of his Cabinet appointments, including the withdrawal of his appointee for commerce secretary, New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, who was forced to drop out owing to investigations into possible improper business dealings in his home state. Gallup asked Americans in January 1993 and January 2001 the same transition approval question concerning Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, respectively. In both instances, Americans were quite positive, although at a level well below their approval of Obama today. ~~Gallup Poll - More here: http://www.gallup.com/poll/113824/Obama-Wins-83-Approval-Rating-Transition.aspx
[FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT IF?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: On topic: The problem with personal experience is our resistance to acknowledging the possibility of mistake, of cognitive errors. People Know their experience was meaningful and why would they want to hear that it was ordinary? Off topic: In follow-up interviews conducted two months later 67 percent of the volunteers rated the psilocybin experience as among the most meaningful of their lives, comparing it to the birth of a first child or the death of a parent, and 79 percent reported that it had moderately or greatly increased their overall sense of well-being or life satisfaction. Independent interviews of family members, friends and co-workers confirmed small but significant positive changes in the subject's behavior and more follow-ups are currently being conducted to determine if the effects persist a year later. Further scientific investigation is warranted to determine how the drug achieves its effects as well as how they might be used in the treatment of the ennui and anguish of impending death as well as alcoholism and other forms of drug addiction, argues Charles Schuster, a neuroscientist at Wayne State University and a former director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse, in a commentary on the paper. The misuse of these substances cannot be allowed to continue to curtail their use as tools for understanding the neurobiology of human consciousness, self-awareness and their potential as therapeutic agents. This is from a Scientific American article. I don't have an online link.
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: WHAT IF?] Bevan and John Hagelin = Barry and vaj
--- HA! Gotcha. Now you're judging people on what relative matters constitute dogma and which topics are not. You say genuine devotion is not dogma but genuine Buddhist or genuine Shiva devotion is OK, as well as your previously expoused political convictions prior to the election.. Why not devotion to a dogma? One can be devoted to a dogma and still be Enlightened. Why not? What matters (again) is the nature of the binding attachment, not the CONTENT. You're confusing the two. Take an extreme case: Certainly, everybody would agree that the Roman Catholic Church teaches DOGMA. Your'e saying it would be impossible for a person who at one time is a True Believer (TB) in the dogma to get Enlightened without giving up the dogma. Sorry - non-sequitur. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@... wrote: i think my point is much clearer in my post to specifically address your question. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifuxero@ wrote: -Your definition of dogma may be overly broad. It's not the content, but the character of binding duality. Thus, to assess another person as you are doing is rather presumptuous; since you have expressed various political viewpoints. By your same approach, your political viewpoints can just as easily be construed as dogma. To be really consistent, you would have to come to the absurd conclusion that Ramana Maharshi has not Enlightened since he continued to be a devotee of Arunachala Shiva. -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: one more point, to bring some balance vis a vis Buddhists and TMO, Barry and vaj are a lot more like Bevan and John Hagelin that it may appear. Although Barry and vaj see their allegiance to His Holiness the Dalai Lama and Bevan and John see their allegiance to the Maharishi, all four of them are operating in much the same manner. if SSRS is asking us to loot the store, all four of these guys are living in the halfway house. all are trying to both be dogmatic and at the same time gain enlightenment. there is absolutely no difference between trying to hold onto the ego in Buddhism and within the TMO. NO difference. sure, as with Buddhist practice, you may think that if you do good stuff for others, then you are becoming enlightened. same as living in a vastu house in the TMO. the initial AHA with both practices is useful in broadening the mind. but as Bevan, John, Barry and vaj so openly demonstrate, an addiction to dogma will never result in enlightenment. all you end up with is mood making. it is clear to anyone on this board that both Barry and vaj can be really nasty guys. and both too espouse compassion. this is identical to Bevan and John, who on the one hand espouse a Vedic lifestyle, while humping married women on the side. no difference. there is no way to fake the goal of a spiritual tradition by continuing to follow dogma. all four of these seekers are ego tripping, and all four are never going to gain enlightenment using that approach. sorry to pick on you guys, Barry and vaj-- its just that you are perfect servants for the point i am making.:) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 no_reply@ wrote: i want to make a point here about enlightenment-- vaj argues below that he can both follow the dogma, and be -partially- enlightened. THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE. unlike what his teachers have taught him (read $$$ and power for THEM), the experience of enlightenment is one of total freedom and complete independence. there is no need in such a state to refer back to where we are trying to go. another servant to my point here is Barry who frequently mentions he was enlightened once, for a short time. this impermanent witnessing experience has nothing to do with enlightenment either. vaj argues the point that someone who has reached the destination needs to continue to look at the map. speaking of absolutes, this is absolute garbage.:) while enlightenment is not a static state, there is no relationship between religious dogma and enlightenment. dogma is useful for pointing us in the right direction, but is then naturally discarded once the goal is reached. many seekers like Barry and vaj hold on to dogma because it is a convenient way of not letting go completely of their ego. fine- - no problem, but they shouldn't try to justify it in all sorts of bizarre ways. enlightenment is straightforward. no caveats. you are or you aren't, no dogma and no excuses. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote:
[FairfieldLife] Re: Sacred Confusion
---thx: bolsters my position (imo) on dogmas since to be judgemental in this area regarding what is and what is not dogma presumes that in the vast sea of Mind (ultimately, the entire relative aspect of Brahman); there are certain prohibited categories dependent solely on the content. As your excellent discourse below says, what matters more is having an open door to new ideas; and that at any given moment, there is a vast ensemble of Mind-entities that one can relish without being attached to - and at the very next moment, throwing those away into the dustbin. Whether those discarded notions constitute dogmas or useful, creative ideas, or genuine devotion, matters not; as such matters pertain to attachment. Nobody has yet come up with any mechanism whatsoever that measures anybody elses (let alone our own); level of attachment to Mind- entities, dogma or not. Thus, to say Hagelin is not Enlightened solely on the basis of his True-Believer-ism would be presumptuous to say the least. Also, there's evidence suggesting that there's no connection between morals and Enlightenment. So if there's no connection between MORALS and Enlightenment, why not DOGMA and Enlightenment? In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, arhatafreespe...@... wrote: Sacred Confusion Who is not born in confusion! Confusion is a divine opportunity to seek non confusion. To admit confusion is a quality of a true intelligent person. Those who say they are not confused, are usually drifting in their small and fearful egos. Don¢t get confused that those who feign clarity are not just in denial of their buried confusion. To be released from life¢s confusions is to be ¡dead¢! Even the ¡enlightened¢ are confused - not about who they are, but about most all of life¢s other manifestations and curiosities. Denial and avoiding confusion is to entrench one into ¡false bliss and ignorance¢. The admission of ¡confusions¢ is a doorway into the discovery of more and more information and experiences that create further confusion, but with a release of that which no longer needs to be ¡dwelled on¢. Stalk life with awareness and sensitivity, and life unfolds into greater and greater clarity. There are no answers without ¡confusion¢ hidden in the subtle mysterious shadows. Celebrate confusions and be free in admitting them as answers will flow in, particularly from those who appreciate the humbleness. In New York, I sold financial services for a young company started by two attorney who had the wonderful characteristic of always looking for other¢s answers to the obvious confusion of ¡how to attract more business¢. People have constant dilemmas on how to meet more positive and friendlier people. Few males or females escape the ¡confusion¢ of finding a ¡soul mate¢ type. Staying unburdened by that ¡disconcerting state¢ will enhance the possibilities. Lack of information and experience is merely an opportunity to search and, remain open to answers to remove mysteries that are usually open to discovery. To ignore and deny ¡lacking insight¢ into the depths of love and who one really is, is to be frozen into a robotic state. Nothing happens without the acknowledgment of wondering and confusion followed by freeing the ¡discombobulation¢ to receive truths. Yesss Self Love Center Est. 1991 arhatafreespe...@... Port Townsend, Washington USA Copyright January 16, 2009 http://www.freedomofspeech.netfirms.com/
[FairfieldLife] [was Re: WHAT IF?] Bevan and John Hagelin = Barry and vaj
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifux...@... wrote: --- HA! Gotcha. HA HA-- no you didn't! Now you're judging people on what relative matters constitute dogma and which topics are not. You say genuine devotion is not dogma but genuine Buddhist or genuine Shiva devotion is OK, as well as your previously expoused political convictions prior to the election.. Why not devotion to a dogma? One can be devoted to a dogma and still be Enlightened. Why not? one can be enlightened and do whatever they want, including theoretically being devoted to a dogma (though i'd have to see it to believe it). the point i am making is that adherence to dogma will not get you enlightened. it is a trap, plain and simple, and must be transcended in order to reach the goal. adherence to dogma is just giving the ego an out, or an in, if you prefer.
[FairfieldLife] Software Glitch at Facebook
2009-01-16
Thread
Samadhi Is Much Closer Than You Think -- Really! -- It's A No-Brainer. Who'd've Thunk It?
Yesterday the the group received a message, via facebook, seems to have been a software glitch at facebook. Our group, and a few other people who got the message, are not members of facebook, yet, though the software there sent the message to nonmembers despite not being told to do so. I'm sorry for the inconvenience of that, facebook.com has been notified about their software disfunction. Sincerely, Satya
[FairfieldLife] Brasscheck TV: Know your weapons - white phospheros
It's been around since WW I when it was a horror in the trenches. It causes a kind of fire you can't put out with a fire extinguisher and if it gets on human flesh, it will burn straight down the the bone - and keep burning. Now the Israeli military is dropping it from time to time on Gaza neighborhoods. Of course, that's just a rumor...unless you see the video. Who are you going to believe? The Israeli war party PR department or your own eyes? http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/532.html P.S. Update: Posted January 15, 2009 The headquarters of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) in the Gaza Strip was attacked today by Israeli artillery, sparking a fire which continues to burn. The compound was reportedly housing 700 civilian refugees and storehouses of increasingly scarce food aid at the time of the attack. But perhaps even more pressing is the nature of the attack, which UNRWA spokesman Chris Gunness said was hit with shells containing the incendiary agent white phosphorus. What more stark symbolism do you need? asked the spokesman. You can't put out white phosphorus with traditional methods such as fire extinguishers. You need sand. We don't have sand. Though Gunness says Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak termed the attack a grave mistake, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert defended the attack, saying it made him sad but it was legitimate self defense. - Brasscheck P.S. Please share Brasscheck TV e-mails and videos with friends and colleagues. That's how we grow. Thanks. == Brasscheck TV 2380 California St. San Francisco, CA 94115 To unsubscribe or change subscriber options visit: http://www.aweber.com/z/r/?zAxs7OwctMwcLBycrBwstEa0LExsTKxsnA==
[FairfieldLife] Minnesotan's Global Warming Song
Some nice winter humor. http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=qJUFTm6cJXMeurl=http:// www.grouchyoldcripple. com/feature=player_ embedded http://www.freedomofspeech.netfirms.com/
[FairfieldLife] Immortality -- logically explained
http://tinyurl.com/9rgepd Does ya want to live forever? Nah, you want something better than that, right? The above article shows the way to think about you and how that you can be detected from 13 billion light years from Earth.and so much more. The article postulates that our universe may be a hologram. The article shows the beginnings of a body of knowledge that could lead to an understanding of how everything is recorded by the universe. One example they give is that a black hole's information cannot be destroyed by the evaporation of that black hole. The law of conservation of information is thus supported. The article deals mainly with the graininess of space-time and asserts that we now are on the precipice of being able to see the tiniest aspect of creation with a new method of magnifying brought about by a theory which yielded immediate and practical results. The so much more part: If we look at the history of knowing, we find that knowing another's mind to be one of the ultimate but far-distant possibilities of today's science. Already we're getting experiments that have machines detecting mental operations and, though but clunky, they are demonstrating the the skull is not a perfectly opaque shield of one's inner sanctum. So, now let's take that a step farther, and we can see, say, 100 years or less from now, that we will have some pretty amazing mind recorders being used like today's DVRs. Okay, just to be sure, let's say 500 years from now. A blink in time only. But another step forward can be imagined: recording one's all as we see the Transporter Beam technology on Star Trek doing. Here we see a machine that instantly clones one and destroys the old body/mind while doing so. If ever there was a spiritual challenge presented intellectually to the masses that went unrecognized for its spiritual worth, this is it. Star Trek says quite plainly: Soul? What soul? God creates? Oh, we do that too! Like that. The next step is to think of the Holodeck technology on the Captain Picard ship. Here we see not only the ability to digitally embody a personality, but also the ability to program that personality such that it can interact with real personalities without being obviously giving away that it is but a construct of coding. The Holodeck's Sherlock Holmes will be able to confront a mystery and solve it -- and not instantly like a computer thingy might be expected to do, but instead to do it as Sherlock would have done it and not have anyone gripe, Oh, I know Sherlock and he's no Sherlock. Aside: watch the film with Michael Keaton in Multiplicity for funzies exploring all the pitfalls of such technology. Multiplicity: http://tinyurl.com/7x3zrh The next step is imagining an instrument so sensitive that by surveying merely its local radiation, the entire history of the universe can be extrapolated down to the least jiggle of a quark billions of light years distant. The article handles a goodly hunk of the theory of how such a technology might work, so it's not a completely screwball notion. Anyhoo, in the billions of years of history, on the rare but still plentiful enough planets, there's been long lived enough civilizations that can be easily thought of as having invented all the above technology. Therefore: right now somewhere, there's a Holodeck in which you can be instantly created and you (a clone of you) can be interacted with. Get that? You are already not only immortal but FAMOUS! The universe is so big, the minds so plentiful, that there's probably a legion of big brains out there that are getting PhDs on your personality and how your disturbance of the force has effected the evolution of, well, everything. Talk about being someone with God's potency! Everyone one of us are not just pebble tossing into a very small pond, but hey, here we are with minds that willynilly are quarking a sphere of influence radiating out from us at the speed of light -- or maybe even at the speed of thought! If ya had the intellect, just one thought should be able to mantra-fy the entirety of creation! (On the other hand, Meher Baba never came up with the one word that would do that as he promised.hm.) So there's yer immortality -- kinda flat, eh? Not what you were hoping? How's 'bout that Holodeck having the computing power to show you what your personality would do if downloaded into an ant, gorilla, porpoise, alien, Indra, Shiva? See? You can have a zillion incarnations. Now we're talking omnipotence baby! And don't miss that your own brain's ability to remember and to create dreams might just be a wonderful Holodeck created with precise programming loaded into a biologically grown computer. You might be the end product of a billion years of scientific study from three million planets' best minds -- they seeded Earth long ago and voila! The ultimate use of the above musings are to see the intellectual need to disidentify with what is perceived
[FairfieldLife] Apparitions (was Re: The Inquisition gets to ¨certify¨ miracles now)
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Richard M compost...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: Since stories about the Vatican have been in the air on FFL today, here´s another one. Vaguely related... The BBC recently ran a rather odd supernatural drama called Apparitions starring Martin Shaw as a maverick exorcist battling demons. I suppose not many folks on FFL could have seen it. http://tinyurl.com/5aqkaw I say odd because it seemed to presuppose in the viewer a Catholic metaphysics of exorcism, demons, the End of Days and so forth. And because it's odd. To the max. Curious, I downloaded the series and started watching it. I'm not sure I'll continue. It is very scary, and what scares me the most in it is that many Catholics really think like this. Why I might not finish watching it is that it's icky. Why I might finish watching it is that it's very ballsy. This is *not* a lightweight popularization of exorcism for TV; this is a full-blown questioning of faith, on pretty much all levels. I mean, you've got yer Mother Teresa possessed by demons, yer Pope Pius possessed by demons, yer everyday priests possessed by demons, and you've got yer candidate for Chief Exorcist, who is more than willing to watch all of his friends get killed and possibly lose their souls as he pursues his vision of his own faith. This is one fuckin' weird TV series. I have to say I found it all very unpleasant and unattractive - an oppressive atmosphere of the religion of blood replete with the threat of hell and damnation, the torments of the soul, demons, the Devil, and horrific suffering (in one scene some poor sod is skinned alive). Absolutely. Imagine what it must be like to *dwell* on this stuff every day, as the believers in exorcism and Satan must do. What we're seeing onscreen is what it looks like inside their heads. Very, very scary. My missus was brought up Catholic in Liverpool, which is a place where the divide with Protestants is very keenly felt. I've never been the slightest bit Catholic, and after watching the first two episodes of this show, if I believed in a God I would thank Him for that. :-) Re what you said about Catholics being in the ascendancy in the UK, I did a little Googling and they seem to be up in arms about this series. I can certainly see why. Although the issues being dealt with are strong matters of faith, and have been dealt with by that very church for centuries, I'm not sure they like the creators of this series airing their dirty laundry in public. I do thank you for mentioning this series, whether I wind up watching the rest of it or not. The creators of the serious *clearly* wanted to make people think, and they achieved that goal with me.
[FairfieldLife] Inspirational and Heart Touching Story Family.
Inspirational and Heart Touching Story Family. I ran into a stranger as he passed by, Oh excuse me please, was my reply. He said, Please excuse me too; I wasn't watching for you. We were very polite, this stranger and I. We went on our way saying good-bye. But at home a difference is told, How we treat our loved ones, young and old. Later that day, cooking the evening meal, my son stood beside me very still. As I turned, I nearly knocked him down. Move out of the way, I said with a frown. He walked away, his little heart broken. I didn't realize how harshly I'd spoken. While I lay awake in bed, God's still small voice came to me and said, While dealing with a stranger, common courtesy you use, but the children you love, you seem to abuse. Go and look on the kitchen floor, you'll find some flowers there by the door. Those are the flowers he brought for you. He picked them himself: pink, yellow and blue. He stood very quietly not to spoil the surprise, and you never saw the tears that filled his little eyes. By this time, I felt very small, and now my tears began to fall. I quietly went and knelt by his bed, Wake up, little one, wake up, I said. Are these the flowers you picked for me? He smiled, I found 'em, out by the tree. I picked 'em because they're pretty like you. I knew you'd like 'em, especially the blue. I said, Son, I'm very sorry for the way I acted today; I shouldn't have yelled at you that way. He said, Oh, Mom, that's okay. I love you anyway. I said, Son, I love you too, and I do like the flowers, especially the blue. Are you aware that if we died tomorrow, the company that we are working for could easily replace us in a matter of days. But the family we left behind will feel the loss for the rest of their lives. And come to think of it,we pour ourselves more into work than to our own family - an unwise investment indeed, don't you think? So what is behind the story? Do you know what the word FAMILY means? FAMILY = (F)ATHER (A)ND (M)OTHER, (I) (L)OVE (Y)OU! A young and successful executive was traveling down a neighborhood street, going a bit too fast in his new Jaguar. He was watching for kids darting out from between parked cars and slowed down when he thought he saw something. As his car passed, no children appeared. Instead, a brick smashed into the Jag's side door! He slammed on the brakes and spun the Jag back to the spot from where the brick had been thrown. He jumped out of the car, grabbed some kid and pushed him up against a parked car shouting, What was that all about and who are you? Just what the heck are you doing?! Building up a head of steam he went on. That's a new car and that brick you threw is going to cost a lot of money.. Why did you do it? Please, mister, please. I'm sorry, I didn't know what else to do, pleaded the youngster. I threw the brick because no one else would stop... Tears were dripping down the boy's chin as he pointed around the parked car. It's my brother, he said. He rolled off the curb and fell out of his wheelchair and I can't lift him up. Sobbing, the boy asked the executive, Would you please help me get him back into his wheelchair? He's hurt and he's too heavy for me. Moved beyond words, the driver tried to swallow the rapidly swelling lump in his throat. He lifted the young man back into the wheelchair and took out his handkerchief and wiped the scrapes and cuts, checking to see that everything was going to be okay. Thank you and may God bless you, the grateful child said to him. The man then watched the little boy push his brother down the sidewalk toward their home. It was a long walk back to his jaguara long, slow walk. He never did repair the side door. He kept the dent to remind him not to go through life so fast that someone has to throw a brick at you to get your attention. Lessons from the Mail: God whispers in your soul and speaks to your heart. Sometimes when you don't have time to listen, He has to throw a brick at you. It's your choice: Listen to the whisper - or wait for the brick. Close to your Heart because you might wake up one day and realize that you have lost a diamond while you were too busy collecting stones. Remember this always in life.
[FairfieldLife] from Pammy Icke's blog
http://flywithmeproductions.com/blog/ A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!
[FairfieldLife] Impeach Obama
I am already very bored with this dude. Can't we swap him out for someone a bit more exciting?
[FairfieldLife] Honey Bees and Gentically Modified Crops
Genetically Modified Crops Implicated in Honeybee Colony Collapse Disorder.eml (15KB Genetically Modified Crops Implicated in Honeybee Colony Collapse Disorder http://waronyou.com/topics/genetically-modified-crops-implicated-in-honeybee-colony-collapse-disorder/ Tags: SCIENCE/HEALTH As the disappearance of honeybees continues, researchers are trying desperately to discover the cause of Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD). General concensus at this point is that there is more than once cause and the latest culprit may be genetically modified crops. This is one area of research being neglected as mainstream scientists insist GM crops are safe. Webmaster's Commentary: We covered this topic before, and I observed that there was a huge rush to pin the blame on pesticides and mites, but that the pesticides and mites had been around for quite a while but CCD has started up just when GM crops were introduced into farms, and that bees fed with non GM pollens were immune from CCD. There is a great deal of money at stake, and the history of the behavior of American pharmaceutical companies when a lot of money is on the line is not encouraging. There is a great deal of money invested in GM crops, and hence a great deal of pressur eto NOT investigate whether pollen from GM crops is the cause of CCD, even though GM pollen has already been shown as harmful to benign species. If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe then man would only have four years of life left. No more bees, no more pollination, no more plants, no more animals, no more man. Albert Einstein http://www.freedomofspeech.netfirms.com/
[FairfieldLife] Re: Immortality -- logically explained
Edg, I don't read fFL consistently enough to know who you are or what you have been about here. I have read the Jericho Jerry, SSRS, and now now the hologram posts you made. Whoever you are, you have an incredible mind/intellect of your own - or maybe a slight flavor of mania allows you to think and write with such intensity and wit. Seems the TMO/MMY thing really really spoiled anything spiritual for you. Maybe it is the rage combined with knowing the mindset of a seeker so very well that propels you. I can kind of understand your feelings about Jerry - wanting him to open up about how in the world he has rationalized it all. The SSRS stuff is too bitter for my taste. The hologram response so clever I smiled. Sorry you got burned so badly. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_re...@... wrote: http://tinyurl.com/9rgepd Does ya want to live forever? Nah, you want something better than that, right? The above article shows the way to think about you and how that you can be detected from 13 billion light years from Earth.and so much more. The article postulates that our universe may be a hologram. The article shows the beginnings of a body of knowledge that could lead to an understanding of how everything is recorded by the universe. One example they give is that a black hole's information cannot be destroyed by the evaporation of that black hole. The law of conservation of information is thus supported. The article deals mainly with the graininess of space-time and asserts that we now are on the precipice of being able to see the tiniest aspect of creation with a new method of magnifying brought about by a theory which yielded immediate and practical results. The so much more part: If we look at the history of knowing, we find that knowing another's mind to be one of the ultimate but far-distant possibilities of today's science. Already we're getting experiments that have machines detecting mental operations and, though but clunky, they are demonstrating the the skull is not a perfectly opaque shield of one's inner sanctum. So, now let's take that a step farther, and we can see, say, 100 years or less from now, that we will have some pretty amazing mind recorders being used like today's DVRs. Okay, just to be sure, let's say 500 years from now. A blink in time only. But another step forward can be imagined: recording one's all as we see the Transporter Beam technology on Star Trek doing. Here we see a machine that instantly clones one and destroys the old body/mind while doing so. If ever there was a spiritual challenge presented intellectually to the masses that went unrecognized for its spiritual worth, this is it. Star Trek says quite plainly: Soul? What soul? God creates? Oh, we do that too! Like that. The next step is to think of the Holodeck technology on the Captain Picard ship. Here we see not only the ability to digitally embody a personality, but also the ability to program that personality such that it can interact with real personalities without being obviously giving away that it is but a construct of coding. The Holodeck's Sherlock Holmes will be able to confront a mystery and solve it -- and not instantly like a computer thingy might be expected to do, but instead to do it as Sherlock would have done it and not have anyone gripe, Oh, I know Sherlock and he's no Sherlock. Aside: watch the film with Michael Keaton in Multiplicity for funzies exploring all the pitfalls of such technology. Multiplicity: http://tinyurl.com/7x3zrh The next step is imagining an instrument so sensitive that by surveying merely its local radiation, the entire history of the universe can be extrapolated down to the least jiggle of a quark billions of light years distant. The article handles a goodly hunk of the theory of how such a technology might work, so it's not a completely screwball notion. Anyhoo, in the billions of years of history, on the rare but still plentiful enough planets, there's been long lived enough civilizations that can be easily thought of as having invented all the above technology. Therefore: right now somewhere, there's a Holodeck in which you can be instantly created and you (a clone of you) can be interacted with. Get that? You are already not only immortal but FAMOUS! The universe is so big, the minds so plentiful, that there's probably a legion of big brains out there that are getting PhDs on your personality and how your disturbance of the force has effected the evolution of, well, everything. Talk about being someone with God's potency! Everyone one of us are not just pebble tossing into a very small pond, but hey, here we are with minds that willynilly are quarking a sphere of influence radiating out from us at the speed of light -- or maybe even at the speed of thought! If ya had the intellect, just one thought should be able to
[FairfieldLife] Post Count
Fairfield Life Post Counter === Start Date (UTC): Sat Jan 10 00:00:00 2009 End Date (UTC): Sat Jan 17 00:00:00 2009 806 messages as of (UTC) Fri Jan 16 23:32:20 2009 62 enlightened_dawn11 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 50 authfriend jst...@panix.com 50 TurquoiseB no_re...@yahoogroups.com 47 Vaj vajradh...@earthlink.net 42 I am the eternal l.shad...@gmail.com 39 Arhata Osho arhatafreespe...@yahoo.com 36 sparaig lengli...@cox.net 35 Richard J. Williams willy...@yahoo.com 33 raunchydog raunchy...@yahoo.com 32 yifuxero yifux...@yahoo.com 31 curtisdeltablues curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com 27 nablusoss1008 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 24 shempmcgurk shempmcg...@netscape.net 24 ruthsimplicity no_re...@yahoogroups.com 22 Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net 19 Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@lisco.com 18 Duveyoung no_re...@yahoogroups.com 18 do.rflex do.rf...@yahoo.com 17 cardemaister no_re...@yahoogroups.com 13 Rick Archer r...@searchsummit.com 13 Marek Reavis reavisma...@sbcglobal.net 11 mainstream20016 mainstream20...@yahoo.com 11 arhatafreespe...@yahoo.com 10 dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony...@yahoo.com 9 Peter drpetersutp...@yahoo.com 9 Paul Mason premanandp...@yahoo.co.uk 8 lurkernomore20002000 steve.sun...@sbcglobal.net 8 Richard M compost...@yahoo.co.uk 8 John jr_...@yahoo.com 7 guyfawkes91 guyfawke...@yahoo.com 6 BillyG. wg...@yahoo.com 5 Nelson nelsonriddle2...@yahoo.com 5 Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com 4 gullible fool ffl...@yahoo.com 4 Richard Williams willy...@yahoo.com 3 wayback71 waybac...@yahoo.com 3 off_world_beings no_re...@yahoogroups.com 3 metoostill metoost...@yahoo.com 3 boo_lives boo_li...@yahoo.com 3 billy jim emptyb...@yahoo.com 3 FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 2 pranamoocher bh...@hotmail.com 2 peterklutz peterkl...@yahoo.com.au 2 geezerfreak geezerfr...@yahoo.com 2 feste37 fest...@yahoo.com 2 drpetersutphen drpetersutp...@yahoo.com 2 claudiouk claudi...@yahoo.co.uk 2 bob_brigante no_re...@yahoogroups.com 2 grate.swan no_re...@yahoogroups.com 1 william108wm william10...@yahoo.com 1 uns_tressor uns_tres...@yahoo.ca 1 shukra69 shukr...@yahoo.ca 1 satvadude108 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 1 nayakanayaka nay...@gmx.net 1 michael vedamer...@yahoo.de 1 menkemeyer menkeme...@yahoo.com 1 martyboi marty...@yahoo.com 1 johnbloggs1080 j...@parsons-chiro.co.uk 1 bitingbirdie bitingbir...@yahoo.com 1 bettyblue109 no_re...@yahoogroups.com 1 wle...@aol.com 1 Sadhu Tantrika dharmamit...@gmail.com 1 Patrick Gillam jpgil...@yahoo.com 1 Samadhi Is Much Closer Than You Think -- Really! -- It's A No-Brainer. Who'd've Thunk It? dharmamit...@gmail.com Posters: 64 Saturday Morning 00:00 UTC Rollover Times = Daylight Saving Time (Summer): US Friday evening: PDT 5 PM - MDT 6 PM - CDT 7 PM - EDT 8 PM Europe Saturday: BST 1 AM CEST 2 AM EEST 3 AM Standard Time (Winter): US Friday evening: PST 4 PM - MST 5 PM - CST 6 PM - EST 7 PM Europe Saturday: GMT 12 AM CET 1 AM EET 2 AM For more information on Time Zones: www.worldtimezone.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT IF?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: [ed11 wrote:] however the goal is actually reached by TRANSCENDING THE DOGMA, whether it is the Buddhist ideals of compassion or whether it is the TMO ideals of living a Vedic life. depending on our path, the dogma must be absolutely transcended in order top reach the goal, and once we are left naked and screaming in the darkness do we have any hope of becoming ourselves, becoming enlightened. anything else is just a circle jerk. lots of the latter going on right here on FFL by the way. :) On the other hand, there is sometimes a value in following the right action (rules) of an Internet chat group, because when you transcend those rules and overpost, you are left naked and screaming in the darkness of not being able to post for a whole week. See you after midnight GMT Friday, September 23rd, hon. You might want to spend some of the time until then becoming yourself. But if yourself's ability to transcend is anything like yourself's ability to count, I wouldn't... uh...count on becoming enlightened. :-) Translation: Barry is *ecstatic* to be free of the agony of having ed11 kick him around for a few days. He's now planning all the posts he'll make demonizing ed11 while she's not here to respond, while salivating at his elaborate fantasies of her gnashing her teeth and tearing her hair. This is the biggest thrill Barry's enjoyed for some time, so we shouldn't be too hard on him. Control freaks, after all, are happiest when other people are being controlled (by them, if at all possible). When such an opportunity to exult presents itself, they really can't be expected to, er, control their enthusiasm.
[FairfieldLife] Ricardo Montalban, RIP
http://www.khaaan.com/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAAl2zfk684 (This was his *real chest*, BTW, not a prosthesis.)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT IF?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_re...@... wrote: [ed11 wrote:] however the goal is actually reached by TRANSCENDING THE DOGMA, whether it is the Buddhist ideals of compassion or whether it is the TMO ideals of living a Vedic life. depending on our path, the dogma must be absolutely transcended in order top reach the goal, and once we are left naked and screaming in the darkness do we have any hope of becoming ourselves, becoming enlightened. anything else is just a circle jerk. lots of the latter going on right here on FFL by the way. :) On the other hand, there is sometimes a value in following the right action (rules) of an Internet chat group, because when you transcend those rules and overpost, you are left naked and screaming in the darkness of not being able to post for a whole week. See you after midnight GMT Friday, September 23rd, hon. If only. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT IF?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine salsunsh...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: snip See you after midnight GMT Friday, September 23rd, hon. If only. Wow, I missed that. He really *is* out of his mind with joy.
[FairfieldLife] Bishop Spong on Heaven and Hell
Joanfrom Highlands, North Carolina, writes: Do you believe in heaven and hell, the blissful heaven and the burning hell? And do you believe in Jesus Christ as your personal savior? Dear Joan, [reply from Bishop Spong]: Answering your two questions is impossible until some terms are defined and some explanations are given. When you define heaven as the blissful heaven and hell as the burning hell, you reveal an evangelical mindset that asserts a particular understanding that you are requesting that I either affirm or deny. It is to bind the discussion to your frame of reference. That immediately suggests that you do not want real answers, you want affirmation. I cannot give you that nor would I be interested in doing so. With that background, however, let me proceed to respond. I think it would be fair to say that I do not believe in a blissful heaven or a burning hell as evangelicals define those terms. I do believe in life after death and shall try to explain both why and in what way in my next book, which is scheduled for publication in September of 2009. You define heaven and hell as places of reward and punishment where God evens out life here on Earth. I regard that as primitive, childlike thinking that transforms God into a parent figure who delights in rewarding goodness and punishing sinfulness. This portrays God as a supernatural, judging figure and it violates everything I believe about both God and human life. If anyone pursues goodness in the hope of gaining rewards or avoiding punishment, that person has not escaped the basic self-centeredness of human life and it becomes obvious that such a person is motivated primarily by self-interest. The Christian life is ultimately revealed in the power to live for others, to give ourselves away. It is not motivated by bliss or torment. Both of those images are little more than human wish fulfillment. The fiery pits of hell are not an essential part of the Christian story. If one would take Matthew's gospel and especially the book of Revelation out of the Bible, most of the references to hell as a fiery place of torment would disappear. That is a quite foreign theme to Paul, Mark, Luke and John. Evangelicals never study the Bible deeply enough to make this distinction. They basically talk about a book they do not understand. When you ask about believing in Jesus Christ as your personal savior you are using stylized evangelical language. That language has no appeal at all for me. To assert the role of savior for Jesus implies a definition of human life as sinful, fallen and helpless. It assumes the ancient myth that proclaimed that we were created perfect only to fall into sin from which we need to be rescued. It was a popular definition before people understood about our evolutionary background. We have been evolving toward humanity for billions of years. Our problem is not that we have fallen from some pristine perfection into a sinful state from which we need to be saved, it is that we need to be empowered to become something that we have never been, namely fully human beings. So the idea that I need a savior to save me from a fall that never happened and to restore me to a status that I never possessed is in our time all but nonsensical. It is because we do not understand the nature of human life that we do not understand the Jesus role. I see in Jesus the power of love that empowers us to be more deeply and fully human and so I do not know how to translate your questions. Sorry, but the old evangelical language that you use is badly dated and I believe quite distorting to my understanding of what Christianity is all about.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ricardo Montalban, RIP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: http://www.khaaan.com/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAAl2zfk684 Don't forget the soft corinthian leather! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIL3fbGbU2o (This was his *real chest*, BTW, not a prosthesis.) http://content6.flixster.com/photo/94/28/83/9428832_gal.jpg ¿Quien es mas macho? Ricardo Montalban es mas macho!
Re: [FairfieldLife] People who continue to meditate
I used to work at a small business that was all TMers. One of my co-workers told me he made lots of calls to invite people who were on the Cambridge TM center list of intitiates and 90 percent of them said they did not meditate anymore. This was in 1978. Love will swallow you, eat you up completely, until there is no `you,' only love. - Amma --- On Fri, 1/16/09, Marek Reavis reavisma...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: Marek Reavis reavisma...@sbcglobal.net Subject: [FairfieldLife] People who continue to meditate To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 12:22 PM Pasted below is an email I received today from an old highschool classmate whom I apparently initiated back in '73, and the first part of my reply to him. Interesting in light of my guessistimation the other day re how many people might still be out there meditating but not part of any association with the TMO. ** From: H..., Joe - St Louis, MO Subject: email from Joe H... To: reavisma...@sbcglobal.net Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 7:11 AM Mark, How are you doing ? I have not seen you since I took the TM class from you at St.Louis U in 1973. I have been meditating almost daily since then. It works for me ! Thanks, Joe H... [first part of my reply] Joe, great to hear from you! And happy that you're still meditating and enjoy it. It's funny, too, because for several years now I've participated in an online forum, FairfieldLife, that is primarily (though not entirely) with former TM people. One of the more recent discussion threads had to do with the topic of whether or not many people who learned TM early on, but didn't get involved in the TM movement, might continue to meditate. I voiced the opinion that of the millions who were initiated, perhaps only a few thousand were still meditators. So I'm sitting here feeling a little chastened after reading your message. To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [FairfieldLife] Man refuses to drive 'No God' bus
Easy fix for this guy's predicament is the bus company puts a bigger banner on the same side that contradicts the message. Love will swallow you, eat you up completely, until there is no `you,' only love. - Amma --- On Fri, 1/16/09, claudiouk claudi...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: From: claudiouk claudi...@yahoo.co.uk Subject: [FairfieldLife] Man refuses to drive 'No God' bus To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, January 16, 2009, 1:25 PM http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/7832647.stm maybe the slogan for a FFL bus should be: There's probably no enlightenment so don't worry and enjoy your life certainly FFL and the TMO don't inspire much confidence in enlightenment etc To subscribe, send a message to: fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links
[FairfieldLife] Re: SSRS Talk-Guru
The shop is open. So loot all you can. Da gansta guru. cool. Keep me in your heart. When you are grateful, there is also a lot of gratitude .. But all this should be converted into your soul and make you blossom. Same concept as MMY presented in recent post / link from talks in India. Same mechanics as Christians becoming absorbed in Christ. Or the those who dwell on the Buddha nature -- perhaps. Certainly its the mechanics of seeing the universe in Krishna's open mouth. This body, this prana, has only one mission ... to introduce you all to your own self .. You are truth. You are beauty. (an aside) You're beautiful. You're beautiful. You're beautiful, it's true. I am beautiful no matter what they say Words can't bring me down I am beautiful in every single way The mechanics are beyond role model (which may lead to dogma and mood-making). Its more like catching a spark from a torch -- and becoming ablaze. Torch that shop. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutp...@... wrote: Here's a fun little talk that SSRS gave about the Guru function: If you want to come to me ⦠by Guruji January 15, 2009 by Guru Kripa sri-ravishankar If You Want To Come To Me - Sri Sri Praising me is not enough. I am not satisfied by your praises,gratefulness and gratitude. Do not just keep me on the stage, on the altar, put flowers and say, Jai Gurudev!â Keep me in your heart.When you are grateful, there is also a lot of gratitude and you feel like praising. But all this should be converted into your soul and make you blossom. Once in a while when you have a problem, you come and say JaiGurudev. Donât say it only some times, say it all the time,everyday and every minute. All these qualities you see in me are also in you. Only when you keep me in your heart, does guru ship arise in you.Otherwise just doing pad puja (worshiping the feet), saluting and running away, nothing will be born in you. If you only want to garland flowers, then go to temples. There are many idols there. There is no need of a Guru then. Not only that, there are many people in the world,who love to sit and be garlanded. Go and garland them. If you have come to me, then change. Change from inside. There is no happiness in the world which you cannot get by being on the path of knowledge. Once you taste this nectar, everything else will be bitter. Once you begin to float in this, you will never experience a lack of anything in any way in your life. Donât keep me at a distance. By staying far away from me you have no benefit whatsoever. You are just wasting your time and mine too. Whatever I am, you are that too. Whatever you thought was impossible for you, I have come here to show you that it is possible. This body, this prana, has only one mission. It has come for one reason - to introduce you all to your own self, to reveal the true self to you. Who are you? You are truth. You are shiva. You are beauty. See, many people come here. Some come just to visit the place and say, âoh! nice.â some feel nice inside and say, âoh! nice energy!âthey take few deep breaths and go back after one or two days in a good state of mind. Few others come and stay a little longer, while, while others just loot every thing. They take every thing. And that is good. Those are the kind of people I want. They must loot everything. The shop is open. So loot all you can. Yah baby!!!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Bishop Spong on Heaven and Hell
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, yifuxero yifux...@... wrote: When you ask about believing in Jesus Christ as your personal savior you are using stylized evangelical language. That language has no appeal at all for me. To assert the role of savior for Jesus implies a definition of human life as sinful, fallen and helpless. I have a different view. I agree personal savior is stylized language often dispersing into dogma. But building on a theme in an adjacent post, Christ (and many others) are torches that can spark you ablaze. Put your attention on that which they were/are (not personality and history). And become lit. Our problem is not that we have fallen from some pristine perfection into a sinful state from which we need to be saved, it is that we need to be empowered to become something that we have never been, namely fully human beings. Another view. When and where did Consciousness cease to be aware of itself? It never did. But somehow, we got off the train. So fallen is not an incorrect image -- in a poetic sense. But returning to what always was -- well its a a bit like recovery from a fall that never was. So the idea that I need a savior to save me from a fall that never happened and to restore me to a status that I never possessed is in our time all but nonsensical. My take is that having a torch -- to throw out a spark -- that sets me ablaze -- to relight that which was always lit -- well you can call it nonsensical. But it is something beyond the senseses. Its transsensical! :) It is because we do not understand the nature of human life that we do not understand the Jesus role. What do you mean we kimosobe? I see in Jesus the power of love that empowers us to be more deeply and fully human and so I do not know how to translate your questions. Our views are aligned here. A torch of love can spark you to become ablaze in love (with nothing -- that is no object, just love). Sorry, but the old evangelical language that you use is badly dated and I believe quite distorting to my understanding of what Christianity is all about. Language is poetic. It has many levels, many meanings. Take what you want and leave the rest.
[FairfieldLife] Re: SSRS Talk-Guru
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, grate.swan no_re...@... wrote: The shop is open. So loot all you can. Da gansta guru. cool. Keep me in your heart. When you are grateful, there is also a lot of gratitude .. But all this should be converted into your soul and make you blossom. Same concept as MMY presented in recent post / link from talks in India. __ perhaps an obscure reference -- here is the text i was referring to -- from a link in a paul mason post http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/205158 MMY: And it took me about two years to understand because I quite remember the time what is meant by it's 'The department of the Almighty'. And now I understand it is this. We have the picture of Guru Dev as when we do puja and that form, that photo, that picture is the physical expression of the form which had a mind that was fully enlightened and Omnipresent. So once we see the form our eyes associate with the form very naturally because the physical and mental run parallel. And once the form is in our vision, in our awareness, then naturally our mind gets in tune with the mind which occupied that form once upon a time. The form was occupied by a mind, that mind is an all time reality, eternal, the barriers of time are no barriers to it, continuum. The body is no more but the form is there and once we tune our eyes our vision, perception, cognition to that, because that was held up by a mind that was enlightened, naturally our mind gets in tune and because that mind was and is and will forever be Omnipresent, immediately our mind gets in tune with the Omnipresent and right away the help comes from where we are. The help comes from Absolute Being which is the nature of our own mind, but that image, that picture becomes a positive and concrete medium to have that mechanics performed for our mind. So help comes from our own Being because it comes through that form naturally our devotion to that. It's the department of the Almighty which does it, not the individual, its the department and it's only one way, it's not two ways, its one way. The help is not given, it's received, it's received by our ability to attune with that, and that ability develops with devotion, surrender and service. These three things. Automatically one is elevated to that level and help doesn't come from outside, it comes from right where we are, from our own Being. But those unaware of ones own Being have those mechanics to help them. This is true of all the saints of the times throughout the world ___ Same mechanics as Christians becoming absorbed in Christ. Or the those who dwell on the Buddha nature -- perhaps. Certainly its the mechanics of seeing the universe in Krishna's open mouth. This body, this prana, has only one mission ... to introduce you all to your own self .. You are truth. You are beauty. (an aside) You're beautiful. You're beautiful. You're beautiful, it's true. I am beautiful no matter what they say Words can't bring me down I am beautiful in every single way The mechanics are beyond role model (which may lead to dogma and mood-making). Its more like catching a spark from a torch -- and becoming ablaze. Torch that shop. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter drpetersutphen@ wrote: Here's a fun little talk that SSRS gave about the Guru function: If you want to come to me ⦠by Guruji January 15, 2009 by Guru Kripa sri-ravishankar If You Want To Come To Me - Sri Sri Praising me is not enough. I am not satisfied by your praises,gratefulness and gratitude. Do not just keep me on the stage, on the altar, put flowers and say, Jai Gurudev!â Keep me in your heart.When you are grateful, there is also a lot of gratitude and you feel like praising. But all this should be converted into your soul and make you blossom. Once in a while when you have a problem, you come and say JaiGurudev. Donât say it only some times, say it all the time,everyday and every minute. All these qualities you see in me are also in you. Only when you keep me in your heart, does guru ship arise in you.Otherwise just doing pad puja (worshiping the feet), saluting and running away, nothing will be born in you. If you only want to garland flowers, then go to temples. There are many idols there. There is no need of a Guru then. Not only that, there are many people in the world,who love to sit and be garlanded. Go and garland them. If you have come to me, then change. Change from inside. There is no happiness in the world which you cannot get by being on the path of knowledge. Once you taste this nectar, everything else will be bitter. Once you begin to float in this, you will never experience a lack of anything in any way in your life. Donât keep me at a distance. By staying far away from me you have no benefit
[FairfieldLife] Re: Ricardo Montalban, RIP
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley j_alexander_stan...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: http://www.khaaan.com/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAAl2zfk684 Don't forget the soft corinthian leather! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIL3fbGbU2o Ay-yi-yi. Señor, it is not just the Cordoba that will answer your demands... (This was his *real chest*, BTW, not a prosthesis.) http://content6.flixster.com/photo/94/28/83/9428832_gal.jpg ¿Quien es mas macho? Ricardo Montalban es mas macho! Sí! Sí! sigh
[FairfieldLife] Re: Gallup: Obama Wins 83% Approval Rating for Transition
Remember that penzoil commercial with the tag line, because starting your car is a terrible thing to do (unlubricated parts etc) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rf...@... wrote: PRINCETON, NJ -- President-elect Barack Obama receives a remarkably high 83% approval rating for the way in which he has handled the presidential transition, significantly higher than the approval level for either of his immediate predecessors just before they first took office. Obama's transition approval rating has actually increased slightly over the last month, despite the fact that he has encountered a few speed bumps in terms of his Cabinet appointments, including the withdrawal of his appointee for commerce secretary, New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, who was forced to drop out owing to investigations into possible improper business dealings in his home state. Gallup asked Americans in January 1993 and January 2001 the same transition approval question concerning Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, respectively. In both instances, Americans were quite positive, although at a level well below their approval of Obama today. ~~Gallup Poll - More here: http://www.gallup.com/poll/113824/Obama-Wins-83-Approval-Rating- Transition.aspx
[FairfieldLife] Re: WHAT IF?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jst...@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote: [ed11 wrote:] however the goal is actually reached by TRANSCENDING THE DOGMA, whether it is the Buddhist ideals of compassion or whether it is the TMO ideals of living a Vedic life. depending on our path, the dogma must be absolutely transcended in order top reach the goal, and once we are left naked and screaming in the darkness do we have any hope of becoming ourselves, becoming enlightened. anything else is just a circle jerk. lots of the latter going on right here on FFL by the way. :) On the other hand, there is sometimes a value in following the right action (rules) of an Internet chat group, because when you transcend those rules and overpost, you are left naked and screaming in the darkness of not being able to post for a whole week. See you after midnight GMT Friday, September 23rd, hon. You might want to spend some of the time until then becoming yourself. But if yourself's ability to transcend is anything like yourself's ability to count, I wouldn't... uh...count on becoming enlightened. :-) Translation: Barry is *ecstatic* to be free of the agony of having ed11 kick him around for a few days. He's now planning all the posts he'll make demonizing ed11 while she's not here to respond, while salivating at his elaborate fantasies of her gnashing her teeth and tearing her hair. This is the biggest thrill Barry's enjoyed for some time, so we shouldn't be too hard on him. Control freaks, after all, are happiest when other people are being controlled (by them, if at all possible). When such an opportunity to exult presents itself, they really can't be expected to, er, control their enthusiasm. Translation: Judy is obsessed with Barry. I leave FFL for months on end when I'm traveling or otherwise busy but when I do check in, there it is, as sure as death and taxes: Judy obsessing about Barry in nearly every post. Good thing she spins herself out so quickly every week!
