Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

From: "anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" 

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:56 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness
 


  
As to the first question, mental illness perhaps results from atypical wiring 
and growth of the brain, causes not necessarily known. Mental illness is not 
considered a contagious disease. So contrary to the title Barry gave to this 
thread, the hook if you will, belief in god is not a mental illness. 


Many people disagree with this. These sociologists, psychologists, and 
religious historians believe that history shows us that not *only* is religion 
indistinguishable from mental illness (think the actions that the Inquisition 
considered "holy"), it is very, very much communcable (the Inquisition lasted 
for *800 years*, fucking up Western society in ways that are still felt today). 

Plus, look at how one person defined their religion just today: "But let's not 
talk about bawee, I have my hands full just smacking him into line day after 
day - it is an exhausting pursuit but someone has to do 
it so I sacrifice myself on the wheel of necessity. There will be some 
reward in heaven for my efforts, I am sure."

This person clearly feels not only that they are going to be rewarded with 
heaven for stalking the person they've chosen to stalk, but it is their "duty" 
to stalk him, to "smack him into line day after day," as if 1) she was entitled 
to, or 2) that ever happened. 


See what I mean about religion being a form of mental illness? Here you have a 
person who chooses to excuse her stalking behavior and obsession on one 
particular person she hates by claiming it's her religious duty to act like 
this. This religious fanatic not only admits to being a stalker, she 
*celebrates* it and hopes to end up in heaven *for* being a stalker. I'd say 
that was pretty mentally ill, wouldn't you?  :-)  :-)  :-)

[FairfieldLife] Re: New version of "If I Had A Rocket Launcher"

[turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Following up, for those who know the song but not the story of how and why it 
was written, here it is, another excerpt from the upcoming memoir "Rumours Of 
Glory." Rated not for the faint-hearted, and not for people like Buck and Jim, 
who prefer their sitting-on-their-fat-asses fantasizing how the world works to 
actually getting off those fat asses and going there to see how it really works.

 Rumours of Glory: A Memoir by Bruce Cockburn (Excerpt: Chapter 11) 
https://www.scribd.com/doc/243718681/Rumours-of-Glory-A-Memoir-by-Bruce-Cockburn-Excerpt-Chapter-11

 
 
 
https://www.scribd.com/doc/243718681/Rumours-of-Glory-A-Memoir-by-Bruce-Cockburn-Excerpt-Chapter-11
 
 
 Rumours of Glory: A Memoir by Bruce Cockburn (Excerp... 
https://www.scribd.com/doc/243718681/Rumours-of-Glory-A-Memoir-by-Bruce-Cockburn-Excerpt-Chapter-11
 Legendary Canadian singer and songwriter Bruce Cockburn delivers his 
long-awaited memoir—a chronicle of faith, fear, and activism that is also a 
lively cu...
 
 
 
 View on www.scribd.com 
https://www.scribd.com/doc/243718681/Rumours-of-Glory-A-Memoir-by-Bruce-Cockburn-Excerpt-Chapter-11
 
 Preview by Yahoo 
 
 
  



 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 For the few Bruce Cockburn fans here, this is just a smokin' video version of 
Bruce performing one of his signature songs, from the new DVD included in the 
upcoming "Rumours Of Glory" set. This should be the theme song playing in the 
background when you look up "Revolution Theology" in the Catholic Encyclopedia. 

 

 Bruce Cockburn - If I Had A Rocket Launcher LIVE 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vOCcFB5eqg&feature=youtu.be
 

  
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vOCcFB5eqg&feature=youtu.be
  
  
  
  
  
 Bruce Cockburn - If I Had A Rocket Launcher LIVE 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vOCcFB5eqg&feature=youtu.be

 
 View on www.youtube.com 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vOCcFB5eqg&feature=youtu.be
 Preview by Yahoo
 
  

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[salyavin808]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 From: "anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:56 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness
 

 

  
 
 
 
 As to the first question, mental illness perhaps results from atypical wiring 
and growth of the brain, causes not necessarily known. Mental illness is not 
considered a contagious disease. So contrary to the title Barry gave to this 
thread, the hook if you will, belief in god is not a mental illness.


 

 Many people disagree with this. These sociologists, psychologists, and 
religious historians believe that history shows us that not *only* is religion 
indistinguishable from mental illness (think the actions that the Inquisition 
considered "holy"), it is very, very much communcable (the Inquisition lasted 
for *800 years*, fucking up Western society in ways that are still felt today). 
 

 Plus, look at how one person defined their religion just today: "But let's not 
talk about bawee, I have my hands full just smacking him into line day after 
day - it is an exhausting pursuit but someone has to do it so I sacrifice 
myself on the wheel of necessity. There will be some reward in heaven for my 
efforts, I am sure."
 

 This person clearly feels not only that they are going to be rewarded with 
heaven for stalking the person they've chosen to stalk, but it is their "duty" 
to stalk him, to "smack him into line day after day," as if 1) she was entitled 
to, or 2) that ever happened. 

 

 See what I mean about religion being a form of mental illness? Here you have a 
person who chooses to excuse her stalking behavior and obsession on one 
particular person she hates by claiming it's her religious duty to act like 
this. This religious fanatic not only admits to being a stalker, she 
*celebrates* it and hopes to end up in heaven *for* being a stalker. I'd say 
that was pretty mentally ill, wouldn't you?  :-)  :-)  :-)

 

 

It's seriously weird behaviour, channelling Judy perhaps? 
 

 I wonder who the intended audience is? Maybe there's an imaginary one that 
applauds every such post. That would be a sign of poor mental health!






 

 

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

From: salyavin808 


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


From: "anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife]" 

 
As to the first question, mental illness perhaps results from atypical wiring 
and growth of the brain, causes not necessarily known. Mental illness is not 
considered a contagious disease. So contrary to the title Barry gave to this 
thread, the hook if you will, belief in god is not a mental illness.


Many people disagree with this. These sociologists, psychologists, and religious
historians believe that history shows us that not *only* is religion 
indistinguishable from mental illness (think the actions that the Inquisition 
considered "holy"), it is very, very much communcable (the Inquisition lasted 
for *800 years*, fucking up Western society in ways that are still felt today). 

Plus, look at how one person defined their religion just today: "But
let's not talk about bawee, I have my hands full just smacking him into
line day after day - it is an exhausting pursuit but someone has to do
it so I sacrifice myself on the wheel of necessity. There will be some
reward in heaven for my efforts, I am sure."

This person clearly feels not only that they are going to be rewarded with 
heaven for stalking the person they've chosen to stalk, but it is their "duty" 
to stalk him, to "smack him into line day after day," as if 1) she was entitled 
to, or 2) that ever happened. 


See what I mean about religion being a form of mental illness? Here you have a 
person who chooses to excuse her stalking behavior and obsession on one 
particular person she hates by claiming it's her religious duty to act like 
this. This religious fanatic not only admits to being a stalker, she 
*celebrates* it and hopes to end up in heaven *for* being a stalker. I'd say 
that was pretty mentally ill, wouldn't you?  :-)  :-)  :-)



It's seriously weird behaviour, channelling Judy perhaps? 

I wonder who the intended audience is? Maybe there's an imaginary one that 
applauds every such post. That would be a sign of poor mental health!


Well, before I started moving Ann's messages to the Deranged Stalkers From Hell 
folder, I seem to remember her being the person who claimed to know for sure 
that nothing bad had happened to Judy. That would indicate that they were in 
communication, right? So my bet is that Ann's "audience" is in fact the person 
who has been directing her stalking efforts from behind the scenes. 

But even if this isn't the case, I would suggest that...uh...overestimating 
one's "audience" IS, in fact, a sign of mental illness. For example, several 
times now over the years I have asked Jim Flanegin to settle once and for all 
the issue of whether anyone actually *believes* his claims to be enlightened by 
simply ASKING. All it would take is for him to post to FFL, asking those who 
*do* believe he's enlightened to reply and say so. He has steadfastly refused 
to do this, all while insinuating that he has "friends" here, as if the fact 
that they pat him on the back when he stalks the people he was told to stalk 
means that they actually believe his claim to be enlightened. Heck, even 
*Nabby* has never said he thinks Jim is enlightened. Nabby probably thinks 
David Lynch and the occasional scarecrow next to a crop circle are enlightened, 
but he doesn't think Jim is. Says a lot, right?  :-)

The clear "sign of poor mental health" IMO is the fact that these people -- at 
this point, primarily Ann, Jim, Richard, and Steve -- seem to feel that they 
have not only the right but a "duty" to harass and stalk those on this forum 
they don't like. I suggest that what they're really trying to do is SILENCE 
these people they stalk, because *they* don't like what they say. The deranged 
stalkers *pretend* that they're doing this stalking "for the good of the 
forum," or "to protect those who might be taken in or misled by what these 
liars might say," but of course we all know that the members of the original 
Inquisition said exactly the same thing about why *they* were deranged 
stalkers. 

I would suggest that the bottom line about Ann, Jim, Richard, and Steve's 
sanity is whether anyone is actually paying any attention to what they write. I 
don't read their posts, so they're not talking to me. even though they often 
pretend to be. Almost no one else bothers to reply to their stalker posts, so 
it would seem that they aren't really talking to these people they're claiming 
to be "protecting," either. Thus it seems clear that they are either talking 
exclusively to each other (a strong psychopathic trait among similarly-insane 
inmates in asylums) or to themselves (an even more psychopathic trait).  

Wouldn't it be much more sane just to IGNORE the writings -- and the writers -- 
they don't like? Feeling the need to "get" the writers or "smack" them in 
several posts a day...for months, or even years...seems almost *by definition* 
insane to me. The lurking reporters have confirmed that they see Ann, Jim, 
R

[FairfieldLife] Map of Russia 2015

[cardemais...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Map of Russia on a Russian bar of chocolate:


 
 
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/66867356@N02/15599338385/ 
 
 zrussia https://www.flickr.com/photos/66867356@N02/15599338385/ Explore 
flickpulli's photos on Flickr. flickpulli has uploaded 49 photos to Flickr.
 
 
 
 View on www.flickr... https://www.flickr.com/photos/66867356@N02/15599338385/ 
 Preview by Yahoo 
 
 
  
The red grid: e.g. Finland and parts of Sweden and Norway...


 

[FairfieldLife] Re: New version of "If I Had A Rocket Launcher"

[salyavin808]

 Profoundly moving. He's a good communicator in print as well as music. 
 

 I remember people I know used to sneer at "Rocket launcher" as if it was just 
the product of a rich westerner playing the revolutionary. I suspect because 
you have to really look to find out what is going on in the world and they 
never bothered or even understood why I was interested in what gets done in my 
name. History is written by the victors and US involvement in affairs like this 
were given a ridiculous gloss if they were mentioned at all so nobody really 
knows about it. I'd like to send them a copy of that chapter.

 

 Journalist John Pilger is one of the few who really tries to bring this stuff 
out, his book "The new rulers of the world" is worth a read, it's about how the 
IMF and western security agencies redrew the rule book on how we treat the rest 
of the world in this post-empire age. Basically just looting it for it's 
wealth, privatising the remains and making sure the country remains in our debt 
forever.
 

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Following up, for those who know the song but not the story of how and why it 
was written, here it is, another excerpt from the upcoming memoir "Rumours Of 
Glory." Rated not for the faint-hearted, and not for people like Buck and Jim, 
who prefer their sitting-on-their-fat-asses fantasizing how the world works to 
actually getting off those fat asses and going there to see how it really works.

 Rumours of Glory: A Memoir by Bruce Cockburn (Excerpt: Chapter 11) 
https://www.scribd.com/doc/243718681/Rumours-of-Glory-A-Memoir-by-Bruce-Cockburn-Excerpt-Chapter-11

 
 
 
https://www.scribd.com/doc/243718681/Rumours-of-Glory-A-Memoir-by-Bruce-Cockburn-Excerpt-Chapter-11
 
 Rumours of Glory: A Memoir by Bruce Cockburn (Excerp... 
https://www.scribd.com/doc/243718681/Rumours-of-Glory-A-Memoir-by-Bruce-Cockburn-Excerpt-Chapter-11
 Legendary Canadian singer and songwriter Bruce Cockburn delivers his 
long-awaited memoir—a chronicle of faith, fear, and activism that is also a 
lively cu...


 
 View on www.scribd.com 
https://www.scribd.com/doc/243718681/Rumours-of-Glory-A-Memoir-by-Bruce-Cockburn-Excerpt-Chapter-11
 Preview by Yahoo 
 

  



 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 For the few Bruce Cockburn fans here, this is just a smokin' video version of 
Bruce performing one of his signature songs, from the new DVD included in the 
upcoming "Rumours Of Glory" set. This should be the theme song playing in the 
background when you look up "Revolution Theology" in the Catholic Encyclopedia. 

 

 Bruce Cockburn - If I Had A Rocket Launcher LIVE 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vOCcFB5eqg&feature=youtu.be
 

  
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vOCcFB5eqg&feature=youtu.be
  
  
  
  
  
 Bruce Cockburn - If I Had A Rocket Launcher LIVE 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vOCcFB5eqg&feature=youtu.be

 
 View on www.youtube.com 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vOCcFB5eqg&feature=youtu.be
 Preview by Yahoo
 
  

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[salyavin808]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 From: salyavin808 
 

 

 See what I mean about religion being a form of mental illness? Here you have a 
person who chooses to excuse her stalking behavior and obsession on one 
particular person she hates by claiming it's her religious duty to act like 
this. This religious fanatic not only admits to being a stalker, she 
*celebrates* it and hopes to end up in heaven *for* being a stalker. I'd say 
that was pretty mentally ill, wouldn't you?  :-)  :-)  :-)

 

 

It's seriously weird behaviour, channelling Judy perhaps? 
 

 I wonder who the intended audience is? Maybe there's an imaginary one that 
applauds every such post. That would be a sign of poor mental health!






















Well, before I started moving Ann's messages to the Deranged Stalkers From Hell 
folder, I seem to remember her being the person who claimed to know for sure 
that nothing bad had happened to Judy. That would indicate that they were in 
communication, right? So my bet is that Ann's "audience" is in fact the person 
who has been directing her stalking efforts from behind the scenes. 

She certainly seems to have taken over the role of principle Barry hater - and 
you have to admire the gusto! 
 

 But I don't read any of it either, it's too easy to tell from message view 
what a post is going to be about with some people. Judy was considerate and 
always started a Barry post with "Note that Barry says" so we knew we could 
safely scroll past those. If Ann wants anyone to read anything that isn't 
"Bawee" related she should take up that technique or suffer the realisation one 
day that nobody real is reading what she obviously spends a lot of time typing.
 

 Sometimes you have to admit that you just don't like someone and let them get 
on with whatever it is they do. Continually going on about it is pointless.
 

 But I have similar feelings with TV, some people complain that most of it is 
crap but if it wasn't there'd be no time to do anything else! My glass is 
clearly half-full.
 
But even if this isn't the case, I would suggest that...uh...overestimating 
one's "audience" IS, in fact, a sign of mental illness. For example, several 
times now over the years I have asked Jim Flanegin to settle once and for all 
the issue of whether anyone actually *believes* his claims to be enlightened by 
simply ASKING. All it would take is for him to post to FFL, asking those who 
*do* believe he's enlightened to reply and say so. He has steadfastly refused 
to do this, all while insinuating that he has "friends" here, as if the fact 
that they pat him on the back when he stalks the people he was told to stalk 
means that they actually believe his claim to be enlightened. Heck, even 
*Nabby* has never said he thinks Jim is enlightened. Nabby probably thinks 
David Lynch and the occasional scarecrow next to a crop circle are enlightened, 
but he doesn't think Jim is. Says a lot, right?  :-)

It's strangely comforting to know that there are some things that Nabby doesn't 
believe. It betrays a thought process of some sort going on in there that 
doesn't depend on youtube for confirmation. Good for him.

The clear "sign of poor mental health" IMO is the fact that these people -- at 
this point, primarily Ann, Jim, Richard, and Steve -- seem to feel that they 
have not only the right but a "duty" to harass and stalk those on this forum 
they don't like. I suggest that what they're really trying to do is SILENCE 
these people they stalk, because *they* don't like what they say. The deranged 
stalkers *pretend* that they're doing this stalking "for the good of the 
forum," or "to protect those who might be taken in or misled by what these 
liars might say," but of course we all know that the members of the original 
Inquisition said exactly the same thing about why *they* were deranged 
stalkers. 

I would suggest that the bottom line about Ann, Jim, Richard, and Steve's 
sanity is whether anyone is actually paying any attention to what they write. I 
don't read their posts, so they're not talking to me. even though they often 
pretend to be. Almost no one else bothers to reply to their stalker posts, so 
it would seem that they aren't really talking to these people they're claiming 
to be "protecting," either. Thus it seems clear that they are either talking 
exclusively to each other (a strong psychopathic trait among similarly-insane 
inmates in asylums) or to themselves (an even more psychopathic trait).  

Wouldn't it be much more sane just to IGNORE the writings -- and the writers -- 
they don't like? Feeling the need to "get" the writers or "smack" them in 
several posts a day...for months, or even years...seems almost *by definition* 
insane to me. The lurking reporters have confirmed that they see Ann, Jim, 
Richard, and Steve this way, as cult apologists stalking critics of their cult. 
Why can't the stalkers themselves see it?

Maybe they are just lonely and need a peer 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New version of "If I Had A Rocket Launcher"

[Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Buck and Jim sitting around?! Really, turq?! Duh! Buck runs an Iowa farm, which 
is year round, definitely not for the faint hearted nor the lazy. And Jim is 
homesteading, which I'm sure has its own set of physical demands on a daily 
basis. Your allegations are not only mean spirited, but simply erroneous.
 

 On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 4:28 AM, "turquoi...@yahoo.com 
[FairfieldLife]"  wrote:
   

     Following up, for those who know the song but not the story of how and why 
it was written, here it is, another excerpt from the upcoming memoir "Rumours 
Of Glory." Rated not for the faint-hearted, and not for people like Buck and 
Jim, who prefer their sitting-on-their-fat-asses fantasizing how the world 
works to actually getting off those fat asses and going there to see how it 
really works.

Rumours of Glory: A Memoir by Bruce Cockburn (Excerpt: Chapter 11)

 
||
||||   Rumours of Glory: A Memoir by Bruce Cockburn 
(Excerp...  Legendary Canadian singer and songwriter Bruce Cockburn delivers 
his long-awaited memoir—a chronicle of faith, fear, and activism that is also a 
lively cu...||
|  View on www.scribd.com  |Preview by Yahoo|
||

   



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

For the few Bruce Cockburn fans here, this is just a smokin' video version of 
Bruce performing one of his signature songs, from the new DVD included in the 
upcoming "Rumours Of Glory" set. This should be the theme song playing in the 
background when you look up "Revolution Theology" in the Catholic Encyclopedia. 

Bruce Cockburn - If I Had A Rocket Launcher LIVE

|   |
|   |  |   |   |   |   |   |
| Bruce Cockburn - If I Had A Rocket Launcher LIVE |
|  |
| View on www.youtube.com | Preview by Yahoo |
|  |
|   |


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

From: salyavin808 



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :



Well, before I started moving Ann's messages to the Deranged Stalkers From Hell 
folder, I seem to remember her being the person who claimed to know for sure 
that nothing bad had happened to Judy. That would indicate that they were in 
communication, right? So my bet is that Ann's "audience" is in fact the person 
who has been directing her stalking efforts from behind the scenes. 

She certainly seems to have taken over the role of principle Barry hater - and 
you have to admire the gusto! 

Indeed. Even *Judy* never admitted to having read my book as research material 
with which to better stalk me the way Ann has admitted to doing lately. Wasn't 
it Judy herself who once defined stalking as follows: "I might also point out 
that searching the Web for information to use against somebody is standard 
cyberstalking behavior." -- Judy Stein, FFL, 11 February 2013


But I don't read any of it either, it's too easy to tell from message view what 
a post is going to be about with some people. Judy was considerate and always 
started a Barry post with "Note that Barry says" so we knew we could safely 
scroll past those. If Ann wants anyone to read anything that isn't "Bawee" 
related she should take up that technique or suffer the realisation one day 
that nobody real is reading what she obviously spends a lot of time typing.

I've really never understood those who feel that I or others might be "missing" 
important information by merely scanning the Message View of their posts and 
skipping the rest. One would really have to be a cretin to NOT know what one of 
these people were going to say in their posts from the first couple of lines of 
them. It's not, after all, as if they have that much *range* in the things they 
say. With Ann, one appearance of "bawee" is a guaranteed tipoff that she needed 
her Hate Fix for the day and that it's safe to skip the post in which she tried 
to shoot it up. 


Sometimes you have to admit that you just don't like someone and let them get 
on with whatever it is they do. Continually going on about it is pointless.

And continuing to claim that she's not obsessing on me while *obviously* 
obsessing on me is not only pointless, but more than a little insane. 


But I have similar feelings with TV, some people complain that most of it is 
crap but if it wasn't there'd be no time to do anything else! My glass is 
clearly half-full.

But even if this isn't the case, I would suggest that...uh...overestimating 
one's "audience" IS, in fact, a sign of mental illness. For example, several 
times now over the years I have asked Jim Flanegin to settle once and for all 
the issue of whether anyone actually *believes* his claims to be enlightened by 
simply ASKING. All it would take is for him to post to FFL, asking those who 
*do* believe he's enlightened to reply and say so. He has steadfastly refused 
to do this, all while insinuating that he has "friends" here,
as if the fact that they pat him on the back when he stalks the people he was 
told to stalk means that they actually believe his claim to be enlightened. 
Heck, even *Nabby* has never said he thinks Jim is enlightened. Nabby probably 
thinks David Lynch and the occasional scarecrow next to a crop circle are 
enlightened, but he doesn't think Jim is. Says a lot, right?  :-)

It's strangely comforting to know that there are some things that Nabby doesn't 
believe. It betrays a thought process of some sort going on in there that 
doesn't depend on youtube for confirmation. Good for him.

What, after all, would you or anyone else sane THINK of someone who actually 
*did* believe Jim's claims to be enlightened? The prospect of such a person 
existing is almost scarier than Jim existing.  :-)

The clear "sign of poor mental health" IMO is the fact that these people -- at 
this point, primarily Ann, Jim, Richard, and Steve -- seem to feel that they 
have not only the right but a "duty" to harass and stalk those on this forum 
they don't like. I suggest that what they're really trying to do is SILENCE 
these people they stalk, because *they* don't like what they say. The deranged 
stalkers *pretend* that they're doing this stalking "for the good of the 
forum," or "to protect those who might be taken in or misled by what these 
liars might say," but of course we all know
that the members of the original Inquisition said exactly the same thing about 
why *they* were deranged stalkers. 

I would suggest that the bottom line about Ann, Jim, Richard, and Steve's 
sanity is whether anyone is actually paying any attention to what they write. I 
don't read their posts, so they're not talking to me. even though they often 
pretend to be. Almost no one else bothers to reply to their stalker posts, so 
it would seem that they aren't really talking to these people they're claiming 
to be "protecting," either. Thus it seems clear that they are either talking 
exclusively

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Barry, are you serious! 

 You completely miss the whole intent of Ann's comment.
 

 But, like I said, who cares.
 

 You point out what you feel is craziness, stupidity and obsession in other 
people, and they, (including me) do the same to you.
 

 You are no different than the people you criticize, with the exception that 
you make a point (regularly) that you are unattached to your opinions
 

 Welcome to FFL.
 

 80% of the content here are personal attacks, pointing out other people's 
flaws.
 

 And what you've written below is just the perfect example of it.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 From: "anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:56 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness
 

 

  
 
 
 
 As to the first question, mental illness perhaps results from atypical wiring 
and growth of the brain, causes not necessarily known. Mental illness is not 
considered a contagious disease. So contrary to the title Barry gave to this 
thread, the hook if you will, belief in god is not a mental illness.


 

 Many people disagree with this. These sociologists, psychologists, and 
religious historians believe that history shows us that not *only* is religion 
indistinguishable from mental illness (think the actions that the Inquisition 
considered "holy"), it is very, very much communcable (the Inquisition lasted 
for *800 years*, fucking up Western society in ways that are still felt today). 
 

 Plus, look at how one person defined their religion just today: "But let's not 
talk about bawee, I have my hands full just smacking him into line day after 
day - it is an exhausting pursuit but someone has to do it so I sacrifice 
myself on the wheel of necessity. There will be some reward in heaven for my 
efforts, I am sure."
 

 This person clearly feels not only that they are going to be rewarded with 
heaven for stalking the person they've chosen to stalk, but it is their "duty" 
to stalk him, to "smack him into line day after day," as if 1) she was entitled 
to, or 2) that ever happened. 

 

 See what I mean about religion being a form of mental illness? Here you have a 
person who chooses to excuse her stalking behavior and obsession on one 
particular person she hates by claiming it's her religious duty to act like 
this. This religious fanatic not only admits to being a stalker, she 
*celebrates* it and hopes to end up in heaven *for* being a stalker. I'd say 
that was pretty mentally ill, wouldn't you?  :-)  :-)  :-)

 

 








 


 

 

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Jesus, salyavin, I gotta tell you,  from what I know about you, and what I know 
about Ann,  count me in the Ann camp. 

 On the other hand, maybe there's just not a hell of a lot for you to hang your 
hat on.
 

 A lot of deep thinking perhaps, if that's what you want to call it.
 

 P.S. You really play that Judy card, way to often.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 From: "anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:56 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness
 

 

  
 
 
 
 As to the first question, mental illness perhaps results from atypical wiring 
and growth of the brain, causes not necessarily known. Mental illness is not 
considered a contagious disease. So contrary to the title Barry gave to this 
thread, the hook if you will, belief in god is not a mental illness.


 

 Many people disagree with this. These sociologists, psychologists, and 
religious historians believe that history shows us that not *only* is religion 
indistinguishable from mental illness (think the actions that the Inquisition 
considered "holy"), it is very, very much communcable (the Inquisition lasted 
for *800 years*, fucking up Western society in ways that are still felt today). 
 

 Plus, look at how one person defined their religion just today: "But let's not 
talk about bawee, I have my hands full just smacking him into line day after 
day - it is an exhausting pursuit but someone has to do it so I sacrifice 
myself on the wheel of necessity. There will be some reward in heaven for my 
efforts, I am sure."
 

 This person clearly feels not only that they are going to be rewarded with 
heaven for stalking the person they've chosen to stalk, but it is their "duty" 
to stalk him, to "smack him into line day after day," as if 1) she was entitled 
to, or 2) that ever happened. 

 

 See what I mean about religion being a form of mental illness? Here you have a 
person who chooses to excuse her stalking behavior and obsession on one 
particular person she hates by claiming it's her religious duty to act like 
this. This religious fanatic not only admits to being a stalker, she 
*celebrates* it and hopes to end up in heaven *for* being a stalker. I'd say 
that was pretty mentally ill, wouldn't you?  :-)  :-)  :-)

 

 

It's seriously weird behaviour, channelling Judy perhaps? 
 

 I wonder who the intended audience is? Maybe there's an imaginary one that 
applauds every such post. That would be a sign of poor mental health!






 

 

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New version of "If I Had A Rocket Launcher"

[steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Rushing here, but yes Share, very revealing about the Barster.  But, it's just 
the button pushing mentality. 

 That's the only way it makes sense.  ( and of course, what it really reveals)
 

 Quite a rut.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Buck and Jim sitting around?! Really, turq?! Duh! Buck runs an Iowa farm, 
which is year round, definitely not for the faint hearted nor the lazy. And Jim 
is homesteading, which I'm sure has its own set of physical demands on a daily 
basis. Your allegations are not only mean spirited, but simply erroneous.

 
 


 On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 4:28 AM, "turquoiseb@... [FairfieldLife]" 
 wrote:
 
 

   Following up, for those who know the song but not the story of how and why 
it was written, here it is, another excerpt from the upcoming memoir "Rumours 
Of Glory." Rated not for the faint-hearted, and not for people like Buck and 
Jim, who prefer their sitting-on-their-fat-asses fantasizing how the world 
works to actually getting off those fat asses and going there to see how it 
really works.


 Rumours of Glory: A Memoir by Bruce Cockburn (Excerpt: Chapter 11) 
https://www.scribd.com/doc/243718681/Rumours-of-Glory-A-Memoir-by-Bruce-Cockburn-Excerpt-Chapter-11

 
 
 
https://www.scribd.com/doc/243718681/Rumours-of-Glory-A-Memoir-by-Bruce-Cockburn-Excerpt-Chapter-11
 
 Rumours of Glory: A Memoir by Bruce Cockburn (Excerp... 
https://www.scribd.com/doc/243718681/Rumours-of-Glory-A-Memoir-by-Bruce-Cockburn-Excerpt-Chapter-11
 Legendary Canadian singer and songwriter Bruce Cockburn delivers his 
long-awaited memoir—a chronicle of faith, fear, and activism that is also a 
lively cu...


 
 View on www.scribd.com 
https://www.scribd.com/doc/243718681/Rumours-of-Glory-A-Memoir-by-Bruce-Cockburn-Excerpt-Chapter-11
 Preview by Yahoo 
 

  



 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 For the few Bruce Cockburn fans here, this is just a smokin' video version of 
Bruce performing one of his signature songs, from the new DVD included in the 
upcoming "Rumours Of Glory" set. This should be the theme song playing in the 
background when you look up "Revolution Theology" in the Catholic Encyclopedia. 

 

 Bruce Cockburn - If I Had A Rocket Launcher LIVE 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vOCcFB5eqg&feature=youtu.be
 

  
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vOCcFB5eqg&feature=youtu.be
  
  
  
  
  
 Bruce Cockburn - If I Had A Rocket Launcher LIVE 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vOCcFB5eqg&feature=youtu.be

 
 View on www.youtube.com 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vOCcFB5eqg&feature=youtu.be
 Preview by Yahoo
 
  

 





 


 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

You never really began to debate.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Xeno, 

 Thank you for your ideas.  I believe we've exhausted this debate.  There is no 
point to continue.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :No

 Xeno, 

 You are changing your tune today which is clearly not what you stated 
yesterday.  Earlier, you said that "everything that exists has no cause".  Then 
you said that:
 

 "As far as my experience is concerned, I have always existed. The body that 
gives me eyes seems to have had prior causes. The raw components of the body 
were fashioned in the hearts of collapsing starts billions of years ago. The 
protons in my body, if science is correct, are 13.5 billion years old. I 
certainly feel that old sometimes. So every aspect of my sense of 'self' is old 
or timeless, older than my parents as you appear to imaging them."
 

 Now, you're qualifying your statement by saying that you do have a mother and 
a father. =No, I said my body had a mother and a father, that's different. You 
need to read more carefully.=  From my understanding, your parents are the 
cause of your existence on earth. =Your understanding and my understanding are 
different, I am consciousness and that includes the entire universe. To add a 
point, the physical universe is the equivalent of consciousness, they are not 
separate things. To say it another way the universe is pure being; that is all 
trivial because this is true for everyone whether they know it or not, whether 
they feel separate from the universe or not. If you studied Zen, you might call 
consciousness or awareness the unborn.= So, we have one specific example that 
proves your statement to be false. =Well that is not bad considering how many 
statement you have made that are out of whack. But you came to the conclusion 
by dropping out a critical word in my post, so you came to the wrong conclusion 
because you did not use the original phrase=. IOW, you are a physical entity 
that has a cause since your parents begot you. By your own testament you have 
proved your statement to be illogical. =I regard the entire universe as a 
physical entity, by my reckoning I am 13.5 billion years old or so, but really 
I am just blank awareness and the rest of the stuff just fills things out a bit.
 

 Why do I believe that the KCA statement 1 to be true?   Because, like you, all 
human beings have a cause for their existence here on earth.  We are all 
physically begotten by our parents, who are the cause of our birth here in this 
world. =But your parents had grandparents, strictly speaking your parents had a 
prior cause by this reasoning, you could just as well say your grandparents 
were your cause because they caused the environment responsible for your birth. 
And guess what? You grandparents had parents too, so really, your grandparents 
were not really the cause of your birth. If we go back far enough, we could 
find a host of segmented worms that were the progenitors that led to you, and 
further back, bacteria. Where do you draw the line at causes? You are making 
your parents an arbitrary stopping point for causes.=
 

 There are many other examples in the physical world that show "everything that 
begins to exist has a cause".  But your parents are the clearest evidence that 
they caused you to exist.  Do you agree or not? =Strictly speaking I do not 
know directly that the people I grew up with were my parents or relatives, as I 
do not remember those physical details that far back. I was told certain humans 
were my parents. No one every told me I was adopted for example, but some 
foster parents do not reveal to their adopted child they were not their birth 
parents. It is certainly psossible in the absence of DNA evidence, those people 
were not my parents. But as I pointed out, parents are simply an arbitrary 
marker in a long long line of causes. The formation of the Sun and Earth out of 
supernova remenants would be one event in the long line of causes.=
 

 

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 You seem to be just trolling. Do you practice TM? I was  talking about things 
that spiritual practices advertise they can bring into one's awareness. These 
things are private, you cannot prove you have these kinds of experiences. My 
body has a mother and father, my awareness does not, the essential value of my 
existence does not. That really is not important since it is true for everyone 
(except Barry, every rule has an exception. In the handbook of universe 
fabrication it states on line 203,409,000 subheading B that there must be one 
individual in any given universe for which truth is a non entity) 

 As for statement 1 of the Kalam argument, I would say it is indeterminate that 
it is true or not. What is the evidence that it is true?
 

 1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause

 

 a. How has it been established 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

['Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

On 10/21/2014 9:49 PM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:
Yeah, I've seen $cientologists like this in action, and for the life 
of me can't tell any difference between them and Richard, Ann, Jimbo, 
and She Whose Holy Work They Are Continuing In Her Absence. 
Uber-cultists, the whole lot of them.  :-)


I admit to causing part of it by withdrawing my attention from them, 
and depriving them of what they really want -- a captive audience at 
whom to spew their shit. They're reacting as expected, like junkies 
deprived of their fix.


Ann is predictable because this seems to be what she *always* does 
when someone dumps her -- she's just substituted me as the object of 
her revenge-stalking this time instead of Robin. Richard's the same 
troll he's always been, so no surprise there. There has really never 
*been* a time during his tenure on a.m.t. and FFL in which he was 
sane, so IMO it's kinda silly to expect anything approaching sanity 
from him now.


But Jimbo is really the strangest of the lot lately. He's managed to 
take the money he inherited, turn that in his mind into some kind of 
"success," and then move out into the country, effectively cutting 
himself off from all human contact and causing him to make more and 
more and more of his lunatic rants. He probably gets up in the middle 
of the night and goes out to yell the same thing at the skunks on his 
property -- "I'm BETTER than you are! I'm enlightened, and you're NOT. 
So there!"  :-)


I am reading these posts today in chronological order so I haven't yet 
seen anyone's response to this. I would be curious to see Curtis 
respond point by point to this post. What do you think about what 
bawee has said here Curtis? Maybe by the time I have read everything 
up to 7:49 pm my time I will see you have done this already.

>
/Apparently Curtis does not want to talk about Barry's personal beliefs, 
such as a belief in Buddhas, karma, and reincarnation. Obviously Barry 
only wants to talk about personalities, not important questions such as 
does the universe have a beginning and is there an intelligent agent 
behind creation.


Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events. Small minds 
just like to talk about people. Go figure./


/A belief in Buddhas is not a mental illness - it's just an opinion or a 
point of view. Unless Barry is experiencing cognitive dissonance.


//Apparently Barry did not read any of the messages posted by 
masked_zebra, so why would Barry be bringing this subject up again when 
everyone knows that Barry got his nose bloodied by Judy and Robin a few 
months ago on this same subject - St Thomas Aquinas and the prime mover 
or first cause.


Sometimes, it is difficult to reconcile a personal belief with logic, 
common sense or science. At times it's helpful to read a book, take a 
community college course, or consult with your friends about what you 
believe. Get another point of view from someone like Sam Harris. So, 
Harris is a neuroscientist and a Buddhist - that's interesting.


After reading Harris' books, you'd think that Barry could use some of 
that information to make an intelligent point about believing in 
reincarnation and karma. Go figure./


*'Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion**'*
by Sam Harris
Simon & Schuste
Amazon reviews:
http://tinyurl.com/q6wme6g

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 That's a nice piece Ann. 

 I feel as though I have a pretty good idea of the "real" person behind 
people's online persona.
 

 I think you might be referring to Barry in some of what you say here.
 

 I've had a changing relationship with him.
 

 He thinks I've changed. I think he's changed.  
 

 Honestly.  I mean, really honestly.  I don't care.
 

 I still like him, although I think he is disappointed in me, and I in him, to 
some extent.
 

 But who the hell cares!
 

 FFL offers a pleasant back and forth (at least enough of the time), and a 
chance to hear different perspectives.
 

 I like Curtis' input because he will ask you in a genuine way, to justify your 
position on things, and ask you to share your opinion.
 

 Lord knows he is repeatedly asked to defend his position on issues.
 

 And it is important, to at some point, say, "fair enough, I guess we see 
things differently" and then move on.
 

 That has been easier to do, these last four, five, or six months. (however 
long its been)   (-:
 

 You know Steve, you have never failed to strike me as a kind man. I think I 
told you long ago that if I were to fall down on the sidewalk and hurt myself 
you'd be the first guy to rush over and help me (or anyone) up. And you still 
come across this way. You are quick to apologize, consistent in your viewpoints 
in a way that ends up appearing very genuine and honest, you seem to live a 
balanced and reasonably fulfilling life where you have children and a spouse 
that no doubt love you very much. It's great to have you on-board. Yours is a 
voice of reason, balance and humility.
 

 
 

 

 

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Barry, did you read the following paragraph? I regard it as a culturally spread 
malady that has its roots in our nervous system. I think it may be that, from 
an evolutionary viewpoint, a certain gullibility to pick up behaviours and 
ideas helps a child, and to a lesser extent adults, to quickly grasp useful 
information, but that tendency also has the defect of lack of discrimination, 
which is something that must be learned. Scientists, who supposedly have 
suppressed this tendency sometimes come up with crazy ideas which also do not 
work out, but eventually it is discovered these ideas are nuts. Religion makes 
it a proud and worthy stance to guard ideas that have failed to pass muster.  

 The human species lack of hard wiring makes us more flexible for learning; we 
do not go out and dig burrows and look for nuts in the forest everyday 
(usually), but it makes us susceptible to the mental equivalent of a viral 
attack. We here have all experienced the attack, and many here are still 
dancing to the virus's tune. This is why I called religion a memetic malady or 
disease. That is different from organic insanity. Religion is induced insanity. 
The question for 'spiritually' oriented individuals would be, is there a way to 
construct a system that gives us these experiences of unboundedness that does 
not also wreak havoc with this gullibility weakness in the human nervous 
system. Because culture runs along the fault lines of this weakness, it is 
difficult to construct a civilisation that nurtures rational discrimination. 
Look at the difference between the founding fathers of the United States, who 
had rather sceptical and sparkling intellects, with the way the United States 
has turned out in practice. 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 From: "anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:56 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness
 

 

  
 
 
 
 As to the first question, mental illness perhaps results from atypical wiring 
and growth of the brain, causes not necessarily known. Mental illness is not 
considered a contagious disease. So contrary to the title Barry gave to this 
thread, the hook if you will, belief in god is not a mental illness.


 

 Many people disagree with this. These sociologists, psychologists, and 
religious historians believe that history shows us that not *only* is religion 
indistinguishable from mental illness (think the actions that the Inquisition 
considered "holy"), it is very, very much communcable (the Inquisition lasted 
for *800 years*, fucking up Western society in ways that are still felt today). 
 

 Plus, look at how one person defined their religion just today: "But let's not 
talk about bawee, I have my hands full just smacking him into line day after 
day - it is an exhausting pursuit but someone has to do it so I sacrifice 
myself on the wheel of necessity. There will be some reward in heaven for my 
efforts, I am sure."
 

 This person clearly feels not only that they are going to be rewarded with 
heaven for stalking the person they've chosen to stalk, but it is their "duty" 
to stalk him, to "smack him into line day after day," as if 1) she was entitled 
to, or 2) that ever happened. 

 

 See what I mean about religion being a form of mental illness? Here you have a 
person who chooses to excuse her stalking behavior and obsession on one 
particular person she hates by claiming it's her religious duty to act like 
this. This religious fanatic not only admits to being a stalker, she 
*celebrates* it and hopes to end up in heaven *for* being a stalker. I'd say 
that was pretty mentally ill, wouldn't you?  :-)  :-)  :-)

 

 








 


 

 

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

['Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

On 10/22/2014 7:32 AM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:


Jesus, salyavin, I gotta tell you,  from what I know about you, and 
what I know about Ann,  count me in the Ann camp.



On the other hand, maybe there's just not a hell of a lot for you to 
hang your hat on.


A lot of deep thinking perhaps, if that's what you want to call it.

P.S. You really play that Judy card, way to often.

>
/You'd think that after the thrashing Judy gave Salya that he would keep 
the conversation on the impersonal level, but apparently he thinks she 
isn't coming back. Go figure.//

//
//Ad hominem is the second to last resort of someone who is losing a 
debate and is unable to respond with legitimacy. The last resort, most 
difficult for the ego, is to consider that he or she might be wrong./

>



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

*From:* "anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife]" 
*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:56 AM
*Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

As to the first question, mental illness perhaps results from atypical 
wiring and growth of the brain, causes not necessarily known. Mental 
illness is not considered a contagious disease. So contrary to the 
title Barry gave to this thread, the hook if you will, belief in god 
is not a mental illness.



Many people disagree with this. These sociologists, psychologists, and 
religious historians believe that history shows us that not *only* is 
religion indistinguishable from mental illness (think the actions that 
the Inquisition considered "holy"), it is very, very much communcable 
(the Inquisition lasted for *800 years*, fucking up Western society in 
ways that are still felt today).


Plus, look at how one person defined their religion just today: "But 
let's not talk about bawee, I have my hands full just smacking him 
into line day after day - it is an exhausting pursuit but someone has 
to do it so I sacrifice myself on the wheel of necessity. There will 
be some reward in heaven for my efforts, I am sure."


This person clearly feels not only that they are going to be rewarded 
with heaven for stalking the person they've chosen to stalk, but it is 
their "duty" to stalk him, to "smack him into line day after day," as 
if 1) she was entitled to, or 2) that ever happened.


See what I mean about religion being a form of mental illness? Here 
you have a person who chooses to excuse her stalking behavior and 
obsession on one particular person she hates by claiming it's her 
religious duty to act like this. This religious fanatic not only 
admits to being a stalker, she *celebrates* it and hopes to end up in 
heaven *for* being a stalker. I'd say that was pretty mentally ill, 
wouldn't you? :-)  :-)  :-)



It's seriously weird behaviour, channelling Judy perhaps?

I wonder who the intended audience is? Maybe there's an imaginary one 
that applauds every such post. That would be a sign of poor mental health!

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 So, you must be a man of deep capacity to be able to hold within your 
appreciation myself and someone as different as I am in the form of bawee. 
Maybe one day I'll get there too.
 

 Something to point out, about Curtis, Ann -- Rather than an expression of his 
social flexibility and capacity to entertain multiple points of view, Curtis 
enjoys Barry's anti-social nature, and exploits it fully. This way, he enjoys 
the vicarious pleasure of watching Barry insult and abuse others endlessly, and 
at the same time, tries to ensure by his uber reasonableness, and kumbaya 
attitude, that none of the stink gets on him, personally.
 Curtis is Barry's puppet-master.
 

 You may very well be right Mac, because you tend to have a very insightful 
nature and I, more often than not, find your analyses extremely sophisticated. 
When I log on to FFL I always start at the bottom (oldest) post and read up 
answering certain posts as I go and moving past others. As I was quickly 
scrolling down from the top today I glimpsed some post from bawee who seems to 
address my personal post to Curtis. I haven't read it yet but I will, at least 
some of it. From the little I saw it appears rather unkind and very typical of 
bawee. Let's see what anyone does with this, if anything (although I see Steve 
made some remarks afterwards). I think you and Judy are on a similar page when 
it comes to Curtis but I don't always choose to deal with all the machinations 
that go on here so sometimes I simply find the parts of a person I enjoy or 
appreciate the most and speak to those. There are definite traits about Curtis 
that I admire (his music and his teaching) and as for whatever else might be 
going on I'm not in a position to try and change it. Whatever it is Curtis 
either sees or is using bawee for that is between them and is not somewhere I 
need to go.
 

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

['Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

On 10/22/2014 6:47 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

*From:* salyavin808 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
**
Well, before I started moving Ann's messages to the Deranged Stalkers 
From Hell folder,

>
/It looks like maybe Ann pushed one of Barry's buttons. LoL!/
>
I seem to remember her being the person who claimed to know for sure 
that nothing bad had happened to Judy. That would indicate that they 
were in communication, right? So my bet is that Ann's "audience" is in 
fact the person who has been directing her stalking efforts from 
behind the scenes.


She certainly seems to have taken over the role of principle Barry 
hater - and you have to admire the gusto!


Indeed. Even *Judy* never admitted to having read my book as research 
material with which to better stalk me the way Ann has admitted to 
doing lately. Wasn't it Judy herself who once defined stalking as 
follows: "I might also point out that searching the Web for 
information to use against somebody is standard cyberstalking 
behavior." -- Judy Stein, FFL, 11 February 2013


But I don't read any of it either, it's too easy to tell from message 
view what a post is going to be about with some people. Judy was 
considerate and always started a Barry post with "Note that Barry 
says" so we knew we could safely scroll past those. If Ann wants 
anyone to read anything that isn't "Bawee" related she should take up 
that technique or suffer the realisation one day that nobody real is 
reading what she obviously spends a lot of time typing.


I've really never understood those who feel that I or others might be 
"missing" important information by merely scanning the Message View of 
their posts and skipping the rest. One would really have to be a 
cretin to NOT know what one of these people were going to say in their 
posts from the first couple of lines of them. It's not, after all, as 
if they have that much *range* in the things they say. With Ann, one 
appearance of "bawee" is a guaranteed tipoff that she needed her Hate 
Fix for the day and that it's safe to skip the post in which she tried 
to shoot it up.


Sometimes you have to admit that you just don't like someone and let 
them get on with whatever it is they do. Continually going on about it 
is pointless.


And continuing to claim that she's not obsessing on me while 
*obviously* obsessing on me is not only pointless, but more than a 
little insane.


But I have similar feelings with TV, some people complain that most of 
it is crap but if it wasn't there'd be no time to do anything else! My 
glass is clearly half-full.


But even if this isn't the case, I would suggest 
that...uh...overestimating one's "audience" IS, in fact, a sign of 
mental illness. For example, several times now over the years I have 
asked Jim Flanegin to settle once and for all the issue of whether 
anyone actually *believes* his claims to be enlightened by simply 
ASKING. All it would take is for him to post to FFL, asking those who 
*do* believe he's enlightened to reply and say so. He has steadfastly 
refused to do this, all while insinuating that he has "friends" here, 
as if the fact that they pat him on the back when he stalks the people 
he was told to stalk means that they actually believe his claim to be 
enlightened. Heck, even *Nabby* has never said he thinks Jim is 
enlightened. Nabby probably thinks David Lynch and the occasional 
scarecrow next to a crop circle are enlightened, but he doesn't think 
Jim is. Says a lot, right?  :-)


It's strangely comforting to know that there are some things that 
Nabby doesn't believe. It betrays a thought process of some sort going 
on in there that doesn't depend on youtube for confirmation. Good for him.


What, after all, would you or anyone else sane THINK of someone who 
actually *did* believe Jim's claims to be enlightened? The prospect of 
such a person existing is almost scarier than Jim existing.  :-)


The clear "sign of poor mental health" IMO is the fact that these 
people -- at this point, primarily Ann, Jim, Richard, and Steve -- 
seem to feel that they have not only the right but a "duty" to harass 
and stalk those on this forum they don't like. I suggest that what 
they're really trying to do is SILENCE these people they stalk, 
because *they* don't like what they say. The deranged stalkers 
*pretend* that they're doing this stalking "for the good of the 
forum," or "to protect those who might be taken in or misled by what 
these liars might say," but of course we all know that the members of 
the original Inquisition said exactly the same thing about why *they* 
were deranged stalkers.


I would suggest that the bottom line about Ann, Jim, Richard, and 
Steve's sanity is whether anyone is actually paying any attention to 
what they write. I don't read their posts, so they're not talking to 
me. even though they often pretend to be. Almost no one else bothers 
to reply to their stalker posts, so it wo

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 From: "anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:56 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness
 

 

  
 
 
 
 As to the first question, mental illness perhaps results from atypical wiring 
and growth of the brain, causes not necessarily known. Mental illness is not 
considered a contagious disease. So contrary to the title Barry gave to this 
thread, the hook if you will, belief in god is not a mental illness.


 

 Many people disagree with this. These sociologists, psychologists, and 
religious historians believe that history shows us that not *only* is religion 
indistinguishable from mental illness (think the actions that the Inquisition 
considered "holy"), it is very, very much communcable (the Inquisition lasted 
for *800 years*, fucking up Western society in ways that are still felt today). 
 

 Plus, look at how one person defined their religion just today: "But let's not 
talk about bawee, I have my hands full just smacking him into line day after 
day - it is an exhausting pursuit but someone has to do it so I sacrifice 
myself on the wheel of necessity. There will be some reward in heaven for my 
efforts, I am sure."
 

 This person clearly feels not only that they are going to be rewarded with 
heaven for stalking the person they've chosen to stalk, but it is their "duty" 
to stalk him, to "smack him into line day after day," as if 1) she was entitled 
to, or 2) that ever happened. 

 

 Oh my God! Still irony challenged, I see. Did you really, really take this 
seriously? I'm sure Curtis "got it" but it went clean over your addled head. 
This is seriously funny, you actually thought I was not being ironic when I 
said this. Surely the "my reward will be in heaven" part was the giveaway?
 

 See what I mean about religion being a form of mental illness? Here you have a 
person who chooses to excuse her stalking behavior and obsession on one 
particular person she hates by claiming it's her religious duty to act like 
this. This religious fanatic not only admits to being a stalker, she 
*celebrates* it and hopes to end up in heaven *for* being a stalker. I'd say 
that was pretty mentally ill, wouldn't you?  :-)  :-)  :-)

 

 








 


 

 

 

[FairfieldLife] FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

? “..the role of principle Barry hater - and you have to admire the gusto!”  
 No, we all rate posts as we may read them on spectrum; from posts that make: 
Observations, to suggestions, to criticism, by negativity and tone, to 
apostasy, thence to active anger and hating. In reading these posts I feel Ann 
through reading the individual postings here simply lost some faith more in 
Turq by her better understanding of his writing and approach here after reading 
the Lenz book that was posted here. It is that simple also. 
  I always read the Turq and feel he has a valid perspective from having 'been 
there' at a time, by his contrast with spiritual experience like Fleet's, and 
now I feel I have an even better understanding of him as a critic from this 
recent Freddy Lenz/Rama thread on FFL. Context often is everything. 
 
 
 That is something that is particularly good about the writing on FFL, that it 
often can render down what is truth. Judy was very much part of that process 
when she was here. Ann also helps with that by virtue of her mind about things 
and by life experience as context about things here. Some here have been pricks 
and Ann may be prickly towards people at times.  Rick seems to welcome almost 
everyone contributing to the related topics of FairfieldLife. I thank Rick for 
that. Public forum is often one of the best checks against theocratic tyranny. 
 
 
 There was an amazing open meeting last night in meditating Fairfield where 
everything was on the table in front of a bunch of the higher-up apparatchiks 
of the new TM movement. For upward pressures on the organization being beyond 
theocratic control, FFL has long been a part of the calculus of the meditating 
Fairfield communal culture. 
 There is a lot of change going on inside right now by virtue of the attention 
of public forum. Turq in his way has been part of that for years by force of 
his experience, personality and writing. I would miss him if he gets entirely 
hounded or completely embarrassed off of this forum. In the same way I feel it 
was really mean the way they hounded Judy personally off this list and out of 
this community. Rick and the moderators should have stopped that before the 
end. 
 I would hope we could all be kinder with one another in process. 
 Jai Guru Dev, 
 -Buck in the Dome 
 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

['Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

See what I mean about religion being a form of mental illness? Here 
you have a person who chooses to excuse her stalking behavior and 
obsession on one particular person she hates by claiming it's her 
religious duty to act like this. This religious fanatic not only 
admits to being a stalker, she *celebrates* it and hopes to end up in 
heaven *for* being a stalker. I'd say that was pretty mentally ill, 
wouldn't you? :-)  :-)  :-)

>
On 10/22/2014 6:24 AM, salyavin808 wrote:
>


It's seriously weird behaviour, channelling Judy perhaps?

I wonder who the intended audience is?

>
/Barry?/
>
Maybe there's an imaginary one that applauds every such post. That 
would be a sign of poor mental health!

>
/The applause is every time you respond to a post by Ann - that always 
indicates that she has pushed one of your buttons. LoL!//

//
//Ad hominem is the second to last resort of someone who is losing a 
debate and is unable to respond with legitimacy. The last resort, most 
difficult for the ego, is to consider that he might be wrong./

>



Well, before I started moving Ann's messages to the Deranged Stalkers 
From Hell folder, I seem to remember her being the person who claimed 
to know for sure that nothing bad had happened to Judy. That would 
indicate that they were in communication, right? So my bet is that 
Ann's "audience" is in fact the person who has been directing her 
stalking efforts from behind the scenes.


She certainly seems to have taken over the role of principle Barry 
hater - and you have to admire the gusto!


But I don't read any of it either, it's too easy to tell from message 
view what a post is going to be about with some people. Judy was 
considerate and always started a Barry post with "Note that Barry 
says" so we knew we could safely scroll past those. If Ann wants 
anyone to read anything that isn't "Bawee" related she should take up 
that technique or suffer the realisation one day that nobody real is 
reading what she obviously spends a lot of time typing.


Sometimes you have to admit that you just don't like someone and let 
them get on with whatever it is they do. Continually going on about it 
is pointless.


But I have similar feelings with TV, some people complain that most of 
it is crap but if it wasn't there'd be no time to do anything else! My 
glass is clearly half-full.


But even if this isn't the case, I would suggest 
that...uh...overestimating one's "audience" IS, in fact, a sign of 
mental illness. For example, several times now over the years I have 
asked Jim Flanegin to settle once and for all the issue of whether 
anyone actually *believes* his claims to be enlightened by simply 
ASKING. All it would take is for him to post to FFL, asking those who 
*do* believe he's enlightened to reply and say so. He has steadfastly 
refused to do this, all while insinuating that he has "friends" here, 
as if the fact that they pat him on the back when he stalks the people 
he was told to stalk means that they actually believe his claim to be 
enlightened. Heck, even *Nabby* has never said he thinks Jim is 
enlightened. Nabby probably thinks David Lynch and the occasional 
scarecrow next to a crop circle are enlightened, but he doesn't think 
Jim is. Says a lot, right?  :-)


It's strangely comforting to know that there are some things that 
Nabby doesn't believe. It betrays a thought process of some sort going 
on in there that doesn't depend on youtube for confirmation. Good for him.


The clear "sign of poor mental health" IMO is the fact that these 
people -- at this point, primarily Ann, Jim, Richard, and Steve -- 
seem to feel that they have not only the right but a "duty" to harass 
and stalk those on this forum they don't like. I suggest that what 
they're really trying to do is SILENCE these people they stalk, 
because *they* don't like what they say. The deranged stalkers 
*pretend* that they're doing this stalking "for the good of the 
forum," or "to protect those who might be taken in or misled by what 
these liars might say," but of course we all know that the members of 
the original Inquisition said exactly the same thing about why *they* 
were deranged stalkers.


I would suggest that the bottom line about Ann, Jim, Richard, and 
Steve's sanity is whether anyone is actually paying any attention to 
what they write. I don't read their posts, so they're not talking to 
me. even though they often pretend to be. Almost no one else bothers 
to reply to their stalker posts, so it would seem that they aren't 
really talking to these people they're claiming to be "protecting," 
either. Thus it seems clear that they are either talking exclusively 
to each other (a strong psychopathic trait among similarly-insane 
inmates in asylums) or to themselves (an even more psychopathic trait).


Wouldn't it be much more sane just to IGNORE the writings -- and the 
writers -- they don't like? Feeling the need to "get" the writers or 
"smack" them in several posts a da

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 From: "anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:56 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness
 

 

  
 
 
 
 As to the first question, mental illness perhaps results from atypical wiring 
and growth of the brain, causes not necessarily known. Mental illness is not 
considered a contagious disease. So contrary to the title Barry gave to this 
thread, the hook if you will, belief in god is not a mental illness.


 

 Many people disagree with this. These sociologists, psychologists, and 
religious historians believe that history shows us that not *only* is religion 
indistinguishable from mental illness (think the actions that the Inquisition 
considered "holy"), it is very, very much communcable (the Inquisition lasted 
for *800 years*, fucking up Western society in ways that are still felt today). 
 

 Plus, look at how one person defined their religion just today: "But let's not 
talk about bawee, I have my hands full just smacking him into line day after 
day - it is an exhausting pursuit but someone has to do it so I sacrifice 
myself on the wheel of necessity. There will be some reward in heaven for my 
efforts, I am sure."
 

 This person clearly feels not only that they are going to be rewarded with 
heaven for stalking the person they've chosen to stalk, but it is their "duty" 
to stalk him, to "smack him into line day after day," as if 1) she was entitled 
to, or 2) that ever happened. 

 

 See what I mean about religion being a form of mental illness? Here you have a 
person who chooses to excuse her stalking behavior and obsession on one 
particular person she hates by claiming it's her religious duty to act like 
this. This religious fanatic not only admits to being a stalker, she 
*celebrates* it and hopes to end up in heaven *for* being a stalker. I'd say 
that was pretty mentally ill, wouldn't you?  :-)  :-)  :-)

 

 

It's seriously weird behaviour, channelling Judy perhaps? 
 

 I wonder who the intended audience is? Maybe there's an imaginary one that 
applauds every such post. That would be a sign of poor mental health!
 

 Sal, and here I thought you were a smart guy. Guess not. Puh-leeze, go look up 
some chemistry formula 'cause you certainly lack the ability to recognize 
satire when you see it. Leave the literary pursuits to those who have a sense 
of humour.






 

 

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

['Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

There are many non-physical phenomena that on one hand, cannot be 
proven, by physical means. On the other hand, if we take them out of 
the equation of life, life then makes less sense, and becomes less 
enjoyable. An example would be the love between a child, and its 
mother or father, or love between friends.

>
On 10/22/2014 1:46 AM, salyavin808 wrote:
>


What makes you think that is non-physical?

>
/We already went over this: according to Sam Harris, there is nothing in 
the physical world that would indicate that there is a human state of 
consciousness.

//
//"If consciousness means self-consciousness then it cannot be 
identified by logic with the human body. Animals also possess a physical 
body, but not rational consciousness.  If consciousness is a property of 
the body, it must be perceived like other material properties. But 
consciousness is neither seen, smelt or tasted nor touched nor heard." 
Consciousness is private and cannot be shared by others - it is the very 
constructed character of knowing./

>


The scientist would conclude that it is species preservation and 
chemicals, but that doesn't jibe with anyone who has ever hugged 
anyone else.


Astoundingly, scientists do get the occasional hug. How the brain 
generates subjective experience is the mystery not that it is a 
subjective metal experience that wouldn't be there without our brains 
and all their chemicals and electricity.


My perspective tends to be the other way 'round, seeing the eventual 
physical manifestations of all of this world, as an end result, vs. a 
starting point.


I recall Maharishi was rather dismissive, of the coarse nature of a 
strictly material life, a function of lower consciousness.


True, but he had some yagya's to sell you. And I don;t consider him 
much of an authority anyway simply because he pitched a non-sensical 
cosmology with no evidence to support it, and a lot of what he claimed 
is testable but seems to have failed. And a lot of it was wishful 
thinking and appeals to ancient authority. I give him top marks for 
optimism though.


Odd that those with a scientific bias, allow themselves to feel and 
integrate non-scientific emotional responses into their lives, and yet 
be quite imperious on accepting such responses, as they consider them 
non-scientific. What a mess waking state is.


I don;t know how I make it through the day to be honest...

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

Fresh air blowing through the Funny Farm Lounge from DC area and 
Madison. Thanks guys for this example of FFL at its best.



On Tuesday, October 21, 2014 11:18 AM, "curtisdeltablues@... 
[FairfieldLife]"  wrote:



M: I hope you don't mind me weighing in,this was a particularly 
thought provoking post. I too am an amateur philosopher. But I am not 
sure philosophy is the right discipline to answer your question from, 
except to enhance the discussion of "how could we know?"


Here is the section you quite wisely focused on:

"Is a believe in the existence of component or realm beyond the 
physical/material justified?  When I use the expression 
'physical/material' I include anything that is physical/material, or 
anything that interacts with the physical/material."


M: It seems to me that in a sense this ship has sailed with the advent 
of knowledge about a level of matter that is so squirrely to our 
sense-bound intuitions that it does not resemble matter as we know it, 
even though technically it IS matter from physics. That we do not know 
all or in some cases very much about this level of reality should give 
us all some humility about what is real.


But for me those who confidently claim to know about a non physical 
realm through internal experience have not made their case 
convincingly to me. We have a lot of mystery to explore and I am 
dubious that anyone has cleared it up from a mystical tradition. I am 
putting my bet on neuroscience and physics to push back into the 
mystery in a more satisfying way than has been accomplished by 
religious and mystical traditions. The deeper reality may be much more 
amazing than has been speculated about or assumed in those traditions 
whose stock in trade has been "We have it all figured out already" 
over "Let's find out."


The question could be: how could we know about something non physical? 
I wish people proposing these ideas would spend more time studying 
these questions before they announce their assumptions. We need to 
address how we could be confident of such knowledge knowing how 
fallible and prone to self delusions humans are with all of our 
cognitive blind spots. I rarely see this aspect in the intellectual 
mix of confident assertions from the subjective angle.


Then of course you have the whole areas of human knowledge in the arts 
and humanities which is plenty non physical reality enough for me. We 
don't have to swing between the polarities of material reductionism 
and my

[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 ? “..the role of principle Barry hater - and you have to admire the gusto!”  
 No, we all rate posts as we may read them on spectrum; from posts that make: 
Observations, to suggestions, to criticism, by negativity and tone, to 
apostasy, thence to active anger and hating. In reading these posts I feel Ann 
through reading the individual postings here simply lost some faith more in 
Turq by her better understanding of his writing and approach here after reading 
the Lenz book that was posted here. It is that simple also. 
  I always read the Turq and feel he has a valid perspective from having 'been 
there' at a time, by his contrast with spiritual experience like Fleet's, and 
now I feel I have an even better understanding of him as a critic from this 
recent Freddy Lenz/Rama thread on FFL. Context often is everything. 
 
 
 That is something that is particularly good about the writing on FFL, that it 
often can render down what is truth. Judy was very much part of that process 
when she was here. Ann also helps with that by virtue of her mind about things 
and by life experience as context about things here. Some here have been pricks 
and Ann may be prickly towards people at times.  Rick seems to welcome almost 
everyone contributing to the related topics of FairfieldLife. I thank Rick for 
that. Public forum is often one of the best checks against theocratic tyranny. 
 
 
 There was an amazing open meeting last night in meditating Fairfield where 
everything was on the table in front of a bunch of the higher-up apparatchiks 
of the new TM movement. For upward pressures on the organization being beyond 
theocratic control, FFL has long been a part of the calculus of the meditating 
Fairfield communal culture. 
 There is a lot of change going on inside right now by virtue of the attention 
of public forum. Turq in his way has been part of that for years by force of 
his experience, personality and writing. I would miss him if he gets entirely 
hounded or completely embarrassed off of this forum. In the same way I feel it 
was really mean the way they hounded Judy personally off this list and out of 
this community. Rick and the moderators should have stopped that before the 
end. 
 I would hope we could all be kinder with one another in process. 
 Jai Guru Dev, 
 -Buck in the Dome 
 

 Buck, this is the most personal post I have ever seen you make here during my 
short time here at FFL (and I don't mean personal to me but revealing more of 
your personality as a warm and breathing human being). Your sentiment for 
"kinder" is appropriate and very timely. I second it with gusto.
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: New version of "If I Had A Rocket Launcher"

[steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

I mean, what does this say about someone who wants to share something, but 
can't do so, without a gratuitous slam. 

 I mean, I'm trying to figure out the dynamics of the same destination being 
the place one goes (evidently out of lack of options) for social interaction 
with a place where one despises most of the active participants.
 

 Like, I will share something because I really want to share it with someone, 
but just so you know, I do it under protest because you are a &%&$#* in my book.
 

 And thoughts Xeno?  (-;
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Following up, for those who know the song but not the story of how and why it 
was written, here it is, another excerpt from the upcoming memoir "Rumours Of 
Glory." Rated not for the faint-hearted, and not for people like Buck and Jim, 
who prefer their sitting-on-their-fat-asses fantasizing how the world works to 
actually getting off those fat asses and going there to see how it really works.

 Rumours of Glory: A Memoir by Bruce Cockburn (Excerpt: Chapter 11) 
https://www.scribd.com/doc/243718681/Rumours-of-Glory-A-Memoir-by-Bruce-Cockburn-Excerpt-Chapter-11

 
 
 
https://www.scribd.com/doc/243718681/Rumours-of-Glory-A-Memoir-by-Bruce-Cockburn-Excerpt-Chapter-11
 
 Rumours of Glory: A Memoir by Bruce Cockburn (Excerp... 
https://www.scribd.com/doc/243718681/Rumours-of-Glory-A-Memoir-by-Bruce-Cockburn-Excerpt-Chapter-11
 Legendary Canadian singer and songwriter Bruce Cockburn delivers his 
long-awaited memoir—a chronicle of faith, fear, and activism that is also a 
lively cu...


 
 View on www.scribd.com 
https://www.scribd.com/doc/243718681/Rumours-of-Glory-A-Memoir-by-Bruce-Cockburn-Excerpt-Chapter-11
 Preview by Yahoo 
 

  



 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 For the few Bruce Cockburn fans here, this is just a smokin' video version of 
Bruce performing one of his signature songs, from the new DVD included in the 
upcoming "Rumours Of Glory" set. This should be the theme song playing in the 
background when you look up "Revolution Theology" in the Catholic Encyclopedia. 

 

 Bruce Cockburn - If I Had A Rocket Launcher LIVE 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vOCcFB5eqg&feature=youtu.be
 

  
  
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vOCcFB5eqg&feature=youtu.be
  
  
  
  
  
 Bruce Cockburn - If I Had A Rocket Launcher LIVE 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vOCcFB5eqg&feature=youtu.be

 
 View on www.youtube.com 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vOCcFB5eqg&feature=youtu.be
 Preview by Yahoo
 
  

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

['Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

On 10/21/2014 12:54 PM, curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:


I enjoyed your response till you went "its all about Barry" on my ass 
Richard.



>
/So, you don't want to talk about Barry and Sam Harris and their belief 
in Buddhas, karma and reincarnation. Go figure./

>



I am not on board with your use of the term inference and its validity 
in gaining knowledge on its own. It is one of the pieces of the 
epistemological puzzle and fraught with issues. Nor do I accept that 
the claim of consciousness as the ultimate reality was inferred from 
anything. I think someone taught you that this was true. I ain't 
necessarily so IMO. It is certainly a long way from a self evident 
truth from experience.



>
/There's probably not a single person on the planet that hasn't 
*inferred* that they are a self-conscious thinking being and that they 
exist by virtue of being conscious - everyone knows the difference 
between a man that is alive and a man that is dead. It's the most 
obvious reality on the planet and dirt simple. The fact that you are 
conscious is self-evident from just being alive.//From this experience 
we *infer* that //consciousness is the ultimate reality, based on 
experience, and on sense perception, and on verbal testimony. It's not 
complicated.//

//
//Maybe it's time to review the valid means of knowledge://
//
//Sense perception//
//Verbal testimony//
//Inference/
>




And what is wrong with non sequitur outside a formal argument? That is 
what gives juice to our interactions. Trying to restrict everything to 
only what logically follows is a buzz kill man. I hope you will throw 
in as many non sequiturs into  our conversation as you can come up 
with. I'll take something new and tangential over more of the same any 
day.




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :



Everyone in the forum is invited to participate in this
discussion to ask Xeno about his revelations regarding his
physical existence.

>
/Everyone on this forum seems to believe in causation - that
for every event there is a cause. The question is if
everything that happens has a cause, is there a first cause?
This is probably one of the first essay assignments in any
Philosophy 101 class at a community college. //
//
//Everyone knows that Aristotle defines change and motion by
first concluding that everything that has a beginning and an
end would have to have a first cause or principle. His
argument for before and after must have an antecedent state
following Parmenides statement: "nothing comes from nothing."

Aristotle concluded that if the cosmos had a beginning it
would require a first cause, an unmoved mover, in order to
support change./

/Where is Robin when we need him?/


/>
/On 10/21/2014 9:56 AM, curtisdeltablues@...
 [FairfieldLife] wrote:
>



M: Robin didn't understand the problems with unfounded
assertions either, he was fond of making them himself. If he
did he would have seen through Aquinas' stated presumptions
instead of being so enamored with them. In our daily life we
conflate "that's logical" with "that's true" because the
former requires another outside verification for its
veracity. Garbage in, garbage out in logical syllogisms. In
our daily life we rarely take the trouble to be so careful.

The classical philosophers have two things working against
them. They were blind to their own presumptive statements
that had not been proven, and then were overfond of the
logical conclusions they derived from them. The whole history
of philosophy was spent cleaning up many of their confusions.

The second problem they had in such discussions is their lack
of exposure to the non intuitive wold physics and
astro-geo-physics has revealed far beyond the range of our
senses. A world where the rules for macro objects are
sometimes ignored and that we are very poorly prepared to
speculate about. It takes physicists years of deep study and
advanced math to meaningfully deal with concepts so far from
our natural experience.

Now that we know about this level of matter, universal claims
like "Everything that comes to exist has a cause." are
ridiculous as an unchallenged first principle. 


>
/It's only normal for average people to assume that there is a
reason for things to happen - events seem to follow causes; they
don't just happen for no reason, by luck or fortune. Almost
everyone assumes causation because it is so logical to the human
experience: human excrement always flows downstream; gravity
sucks.//There are no chance events./
>


Turns out quantum events don't follow th

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Barry, what the hell are you saying?   

 Tell me it's not the same 'ol diatribe.
 

 Maybe I'll have time to read it later.
 

 How many posts have you written denigrating the place here, and it's 
participants, every hour, every day, letting us know what a waste of time it is 
for your to participate.
 

 That irony is lost on you.
 

 But, whatever...
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 From: salyavin808 
 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 From: "anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife]" 
   
 
 
 As to the first question, mental illness perhaps results from atypical wiring 
and growth of the brain, causes not necessarily known. Mental illness is not 
considered a contagious disease. So contrary to the title Barry gave to this 
thread, the hook if you will, belief in god is not a mental illness.


 

 Many people disagree with this. These sociologists, psychologists, and 
religious historians believe that history shows us that not *only* is religion 
indistinguishable from mental illness (think the actions that the Inquisition 
considered "holy"), it is very, very much communcable (the Inquisition lasted 
for *800 years*, fucking up Western society in ways that are still felt today). 
 

 Plus, look at how one person defined their religion just today: "But let's not 
talk about bawee, I have my hands full just smacking him into line day after 
day - it is an exhausting pursuit but someone has to do it so I sacrifice 
myself on the wheel of necessity. There will be some reward in heaven for my 
efforts, I am sure."
 

 This person clearly feels not only that they are going to be rewarded with 
heaven for stalking the person they've chosen to stalk, but it is their "duty" 
to stalk him, to "smack him into line day after day," as if 1) she was entitled 
to, or 2) that ever happened. 

 

 See what I mean about religion being a form of mental illness? Here you have a 
person who chooses to excuse her stalking behavior and obsession on one 
particular person she hates by claiming it's her religious duty to act like 
this. This religious fanatic not only admits to being a stalker, she 
*celebrates* it and hopes to end up in heaven *for* being a stalker. I'd say 
that was pretty mentally ill, wouldn't you?  :-)  :-)  :-)

 

 

It's seriously weird behaviour, channelling Judy perhaps? 
 

 I wonder who the intended audience is? Maybe there's an imaginary one that 
applauds every such post. That would be a sign of poor mental health!






















Well, before I started moving Ann's messages to the Deranged Stalkers From Hell 
folder, I seem to remember her being the person who claimed to know for sure 
that nothing bad had happened to Judy. That would indicate that they were in 
communication, right? So my bet is that Ann's "audience" is in fact the person 
who has been directing her stalking efforts from behind the scenes. 

But even if this isn't the case, I would suggest that...uh...overestimating 
one's "audience" IS, in fact, a sign of mental illness. For example, several 
times now over the years I have asked Jim Flanegin to settle once and for all 
the issue of whether anyone actually *believes* his claims to be enlightened by 
simply ASKING. All it would take is for him to post to FFL, asking those who 
*do* believe he's enlightened to reply and say so. He has steadfastly refused 
to do this, all while insinuating that he has "friends" here, as if the fact 
that they pat him on the back when he stalks the people he was told to stalk 
means that they actually believe his claim to be enlightened. Heck, even 
*Nabby* has never said he thinks Jim is enlightened. Nabby probably thinks 
David Lynch and the occasional scarecrow next to a crop circle are enlightened, 
but he doesn't think Jim is. Says a lot, right?  :-)

The clear "sign of poor mental health" IMO is the fact that these people -- at 
this point, primarily Ann, Jim, Richard, and Steve -- seem to feel that they 
have not only the right but a "duty" to harass and stalk those on this forum 
they don't like. I suggest that what they're really trying to do is SILENCE 
these people they stalk, because *they* don't like what they say. The deranged 
stalkers *pretend* that they're doing this stalking "for the good of the 
forum," or "to protect those who might be taken in or misled by what these 
liars might say," but of course we all know that the members of the original 
Inquisition said exactly the same thing about why *they* were deranged 
stalkers. 

I would suggest that the bottom line about Ann, Jim, Richard, and Steve's 
sanity is whether anyone is actually paying any attention to what they write. I 
don't read their posts, so they're not talking to me. even though they often 
pretend to be. Almost no one else bothers to reply to their stalker posts, so 
it would seem that they aren't really talking to these people they're claiming 
to be "protecting," either. Thus it seems clear that they are 

[FairfieldLife] To Curtis

[awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Hey again, I seem to have started something when I wrote my little message to 
you last night. I certainly didn't expect the negative reaction I got for 
expressing to you some of my thoughts. I sort of skimmed bawee's rather 
incendiary comments (not sure why he got all flummoxed) but couldn't get past 
the first post on this but I think it went on a bit with Sal chiming in. 
Anyway, this place does seem to bring out the 'interesting' in people and I 
like Buck's post a lot. It was a chance to see him in a way I have yet to have 
witnessed and his message was a good one. Kindness seems to be one of those 
things that should be kept ready in one's bag of goodies as one goes about 
one's day. Kindness is a keeper - it isn't one of those things that goes over 
the top very often, it sort of sits in the middle of those things we could call 
"good deeds and intentions". It is often not too cloying nor does it seem to 
slip into the saccharine or overly sentimental. Yes, I will embrace kindness 
today; Buck has inspired me. Have a good one - inspire the little ones (your 
students) today with some insight and magic that comes with living and loving 
art.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Ann, it appears that agreement with Barry, trumps any kind of rational thinking 
with sal. 

 go figger!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 From: "anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:56 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness
 

 

  
 
 
 
 As to the first question, mental illness perhaps results from atypical wiring 
and growth of the brain, causes not necessarily known. Mental illness is not 
considered a contagious disease. So contrary to the title Barry gave to this 
thread, the hook if you will, belief in god is not a mental illness.


 

 Many people disagree with this. These sociologists, psychologists, and 
religious historians believe that history shows us that not *only* is religion 
indistinguishable from mental illness (think the actions that the Inquisition 
considered "holy"), it is very, very much communcable (the Inquisition lasted 
for *800 years*, fucking up Western society in ways that are still felt today). 
 

 Plus, look at how one person defined their religion just today: "But let's not 
talk about bawee, I have my hands full just smacking him into line day after 
day - it is an exhausting pursuit but someone has to do it so I sacrifice 
myself on the wheel of necessity. There will be some reward in heaven for my 
efforts, I am sure."
 

 This person clearly feels not only that they are going to be rewarded with 
heaven for stalking the person they've chosen to stalk, but it is their "duty" 
to stalk him, to "smack him into line day after day," as if 1) she was entitled 
to, or 2) that ever happened. 

 

 See what I mean about religion being a form of mental illness? Here you have a 
person who chooses to excuse her stalking behavior and obsession on one 
particular person she hates by claiming it's her religious duty to act like 
this. This religious fanatic not only admits to being a stalker, she 
*celebrates* it and hopes to end up in heaven *for* being a stalker. I'd say 
that was pretty mentally ill, wouldn't you?  :-)  :-)  :-)

 

 

It's seriously weird behaviour, channelling Judy perhaps? 
 

 I wonder who the intended audience is? Maybe there's an imaginary one that 
applauds every such post. That would be a sign of poor mental health!
 

 Sal, and here I thought you were a smart guy. Guess not. Puh-leeze, go look up 
some chemistry formula 'cause you certainly lack the ability to recognize 
satire when you see it. Leave the literary pursuits to those who have a sense 
of humour.






 

 

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Ann, it appears that agreement with Barry, trumps any kind of rational 
thinking with sal. 

 go figger!
 

 Yes, but "kindness" is my goal today (although I always find it easy to be 
kind to my animals) so I will hold off commenting on this excellent insight of 
yours. (Oops, I think I did comment by saying it was "excellent".) 
 


 

 

 

[FairfieldLife] Re: To Curtis

[steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Ann, I noticed the same thing. 

 Maybe it is just coincidence.
 

 I'd hate to think the pettiness is that imbedded.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Hey again, I seem to have started something when I wrote my little message to 
you last night. I certainly didn't expect the negative reaction I got for 
expressing to you some of my thoughts. I sort of skimmed bawee's rather 
incendiary comments (not sure why he got all flummoxed) but couldn't get past 
the first post on this but I think it went on a bit with Sal chiming in. 
Anyway, this place does seem to bring out the 'interesting' in people and I 
like Buck's post a lot. It was a chance to see him in a way I have yet to have 
witnessed and his message was a good one. Kindness seems to be one of those 
things that should be kept ready in one's bag of goodies as one goes about 
one's day. Kindness is a keeper - it isn't one of those things that goes over 
the top very often, it sort of sits in the middle of those things we could call 
"good deeds and intentions". It is often not too cloying nor does it seem to 
slip into the saccharine or overly sentimental. Yes, I will embrace kindness 
today; Buck has inspired me. Have a good one - inspire the little ones (your 
students) today with some insight and magic that comes with living and loving 
art.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

okay, good goal Ann, but your normal style of functioning. 

 It's just when we see something that seems out of whack, we comment on it.
 

 To Barry that's being obsessed, or stalking.
 

 He, of course is beyond most, if not all, human foibles.  A model of 
unattachment.
 

 A button pusher on high.  Or at least that's what he says.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Ann, it appears that agreement with Barry, trumps any kind of rational 
thinking with sal. 

 go figger!
 

 Yes, but "kindness" is my goal today (although I always find it easy to be 
kind to my animals) so I will hold off commenting on this excellent insight of 
yours. (Oops, I think I did comment by saying it was "excellent".) 
 


 

 

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

You forget, JR claimed that according to Judy's jyotish she had met with some 
horrible accident.




 From: "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 9:28 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of mental 
illness
 


  
? “..the role of principle Barry hater - and you have to admire the
gusto!”   
No,
we all rate posts as we may read them on spectrum; from posts that
make: Observations, to suggestions, to criticism, by negativity and
tone, to apostasy, thence to active anger and hating.  In reading these posts I
feel Ann through reading the individual postings here simply lost some faith 
more in Turq by her better understanding of his writing and approach here after 
reading the
Lenz book that was posted here.  It is that simple also. 
 I always
read the Turq and feel he has a valid perspective from having 'been
there' at a time, by his contrast with spiritual experience like
Fleet's, and now I feel I have an even better understanding of him as
a critic from this recent Freddy Lenz/Rama thread on FFL.  Context often
is everything.  

That
is something that is particularly good about the writing on FFL, that
it often can render down what is truth.  Judy was very much part of
that process when she was here.  Ann also helps with that by virtue
of her mind about things and by life experience as context about
things here.  Some here have been pricks and Ann may be prickly towards people 
at
times.  Rick seems to welcome almost  everyone contributing to the
related topics of FairfieldLife.   I thank Rick for that.  Public
forum is often one of the best checks against theocratic tyranny.  

There
was an amazing open meeting last night in meditating Fairfield where
everything was on the table in front of a bunch of the higher-up apparatchiks 
of the new TM movement.  For  upward pressures on the organization
being beyond theocratic control, FFL has long been a part of the calculus of 
the meditating Fairfield communal culture.  
There
is a lot of change going on inside right now by virtue of the
attention of public forum.  Turq in his way has been part of that for
years by force of his experience, personality and writing.  I would
miss him if he gets entirely hounded or completely embarrassed off of
this forum.  In the same way I feel it was really mean the way they
hounded Judy personally off this list and out of this community. 
Rick and the moderators should have stopped that before the end.  
I
would hope we could all be kinder with one another in process.  
Jai
Guru Dev,  
-Buck
in the Dome  

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 okay, good goal Ann, but your normal style of functioning. 

 It's just when we see something that seems out of whack, we comment on it.
 

 To Barry that's being obsessed, or stalking.
 

 He, of course is beyond most, if not all, human foibles.  A model of 
unattachment.
 

 A button pusher on high.  Or at least that's what he says.
 

 Steve, just keep being who you are. You're doing great. You're going to heaven 
for sure (this should get a few people going ;-))
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Ann, it appears that agreement with Barry, trumps any kind of rational 
thinking with sal. 

 go figger!
 

 Yes, but "kindness" is my goal today (although I always find it easy to be 
kind to my animals) so I will hold off commenting on this excellent insight of 
yours. (Oops, I think I did comment by saying it was "excellent".) 
 


 

 

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Ann, 

 I am sure you have noticed, this "reading comprehension" issue with Barry.
 

 The brain "filia" that are responsible for nuance, seem to have gotten 
flattened, or something.
 

 I mean, it is sort of funny, but sad too.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 From: "anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 6:56 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness
 

 

  
 
 
 
 As to the first question, mental illness perhaps results from atypical wiring 
and growth of the brain, causes not necessarily known. Mental illness is not 
considered a contagious disease. So contrary to the title Barry gave to this 
thread, the hook if you will, belief in god is not a mental illness.


 

 Many people disagree with this. These sociologists, psychologists, and 
religious historians believe that history shows us that not *only* is religion 
indistinguishable from mental illness (think the actions that the Inquisition 
considered "holy"), it is very, very much communcable (the Inquisition lasted 
for *800 years*, fucking up Western society in ways that are still felt today). 
 

 Plus, look at how one person defined their religion just today: "But let's not 
talk about bawee, I have my hands full just smacking him into line day after 
day - it is an exhausting pursuit but someone has to do it so I sacrifice 
myself on the wheel of necessity. There will be some reward in heaven for my 
efforts, I am sure."
 

 This person clearly feels not only that they are going to be rewarded with 
heaven for stalking the person they've chosen to stalk, but it is their "duty" 
to stalk him, to "smack him into line day after day," as if 1) she was entitled 
to, or 2) that ever happened. 

 

 Oh my God! Still irony challenged, I see. Did you really, really take this 
seriously? I'm sure Curtis "got it" but it went clean over your addled head. 
This is seriously funny, you actually thought I was not being ironic when I 
said this. Surely the "my reward will be in heaven" part was the giveaway?
 

 See what I mean about religion being a form of mental illness? Here you have a 
person who chooses to excuse her stalking behavior and obsession on one 
particular person she hates by claiming it's her religious duty to act like 
this. This religious fanatic not only admits to being a stalker, she 
*celebrates* it and hopes to end up in heaven *for* being a stalker. I'd say 
that was pretty mentally ill, wouldn't you?  :-)  :-)  :-)

 

 








 


 

 

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

who did you say was channeling Judy, sal?
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 From: salyavin808 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
 Well, before I started moving Ann's messages to the Deranged Stalkers From 
Hell folder, I seem to remember her being the person who claimed to know for 
sure that nothing bad had happened to Judy. That would indicate that they were 
in communication, right? So my bet is that Ann's "audience" is in fact the 
person who has been directing her stalking efforts from behind the scenes. 

She certainly seems to have taken over the role of principle Barry hater - and 
you have to admire the gusto! 

Indeed. Even *Judy* never admitted to having read my book as research material 
with which to better stalk me the way Ann has admitted to doing lately. Wasn't 
it Judy herself who once defined stalking as follows: "I might also point out 
that searching the Web for information to use against somebody is standard 
cyberstalking behavior." -- Judy Stein, FFL, 11 February 2013

 

 But I don't read any of it either, it's too easy to tell from message view 
what a post is going to be about with some people. Judy was considerate and 
always started a Barry post with "Note that Barry says" so we knew we could 
safely scroll past those. If Ann wants anyone to read anything that isn't 
"Bawee" related she should take up that technique or suffer the realisation one 
day that nobody real is reading what she obviously spends a lot of time typing.

I've really never understood those who feel that I or others might be "missing" 
important information by merely scanning the Message View of their posts and 
skipping the rest. One would really have to be a cretin to NOT know what one of 
these people were going to say in their posts from the first couple of lines of 
them. It's not, after all, as if they have that much *range* in the things they 
say. With Ann, one appearance of "bawee" is a guaranteed tipoff that she needed 
her Hate Fix for the day and that it's safe to skip the post in which she tried 
to shoot it up. 

 

 Sometimes you have to admit that you just don't like someone and let them get 
on with whatever it is they do. Continually going on about it is pointless.

And continuing to claim that she's not obsessing on me while *obviously* 
obsessing on me is not only pointless, but more than a little insane. 

 

 But I have similar feelings with TV, some people complain that most of it is 
crap but if it wasn't there'd be no time to do anything else! My glass is 
clearly half-full.
 
But even if this isn't the case, I would suggest that...uh...overestimating 
one's "audience" IS, in fact, a sign of mental illness. For example, several 
times now over the years I have asked Jim Flanegin to settle once and for all 
the issue of whether anyone actually *believes* his claims to be enlightened by 
simply ASKING. All it would take is for him to post to FFL, asking those who 
*do* believe he's enlightened to reply and say so. He has steadfastly refused 
to do this, all while insinuating that he has "friends" here, as if the fact 
that they pat him on the back when he stalks the people he was told to stalk 
means that they actually believe his claim to be enlightened. Heck, even 
*Nabby* has never said he thinks Jim is enlightened. Nabby probably thinks 
David Lynch and the occasional scarecrow next to a crop circle are enlightened, 
but he doesn't think Jim is. Says a lot, right?  :-)

It's strangely comforting to know that there are some things that Nabby doesn't 
believe. It betrays a thought process of some sort going on in there that 
doesn't depend on youtube for confirmation. Good for him.

What, after all, would you or anyone else sane THINK of someone who actually 
*did* believe Jim's claims to be enlightened? The prospect of such a person 
existing is almost scarier than Jim existing.  :-)

The clear "sign of poor mental health" IMO is the fact that these people -- at 
this point, primarily Ann, Jim, Richard, and Steve -- seem to feel that they 
have not only the right but a "duty" to harass and stalk those on this forum 
they don't like. I suggest that what they're really trying to do is SILENCE 
these people they stalk, because *they* don't like what they say. The deranged 
stalkers *pretend* that they're doing this stalking "for the good of the 
forum," or "to protect those who might be taken in or misled by what these 
liars might say," but of course we all know that the members of the original 
Inquisition said exactly the same thing about why *they* were deranged 
stalkers. 

I would suggest that the bottom line about Ann, Jim, Richard, and Steve's 
sanity is whether anyone is actually paying any attention to what they write. I 
don't read their posts, so they're not talking to me. even though they often 
pretend to be. Almost no one else bothers to reply to their stalker posts, so 
it would seem that they aren't really talking to these people th

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

['Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

On 10/22/2014 5:36 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

*From:* salyavin808 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

*From:* "anartaxius@... [FairfieldLife]" 
As to the first question, mental illness perhaps results from atypical 
wiring and growth of the brain, causes not necessarily known. Mental 
illness is not considered a contagious disease. So contrary to the 
title Barry gave to this thread, the hook if you will, belief in god 
is not a mental illness.



Many people disagree with this. These sociologists, psychologists, and 
religious historians believe that history shows us that not *only* is 
religion indistinguishable from mental illness (think the actions that 
the Inquisition considered "holy"), it is very, very much communcable 
(the Inquisition lasted for *800 years*, fucking up Western society in 
ways that are still felt today).

>
/Non sequitur. Barry sounds very afraid of dialoging about religion or 
spiritual paths. He's been on the inside of two religious groups, but he 
doesn't seem to want to talk about it. He won't even tell us about the 
secret tantra techniques or the secret mantras. Go figure.


Apparently he is a TB: "True Believers tend to believe in absolutist 
terms (either l00% true or 100% false) and they can't tolerate 
situations in which://

//
// a. the truth is unknown//
// b. the truth is midway between extremes//
// c. simply unknowable//
// d. variants such as true some of the time, but at other times not 
true, or true for some people but not others."/

>


Plus, look at how one person defined their religion just today: "But 
let's not talk about bawee, I have my hands full just smacking him 
into line day after day - it is an exhausting pursuit but someone has 
to do it so I sacrifice myself on the wheel of necessity. There will 
be some reward in heaven for my efforts, I am sure."


This person clearly feels not only that they are going to be rewarded 
with heaven for stalking the person they've chosen to stalk, but it is 
their "duty" to stalk him, to "smack him into line day after day," as 
if 1) she was entitled to, or 2) that ever happened.


See what I mean about religion being a form of mental illness? Here 
you have a person who chooses to excuse her stalking behavior and 
obsession on one particular person she hates by claiming it's her 
religious duty to act like this. This religious fanatic not only 
admits to being a stalker, she *celebrates* it and hopes to end up in 
heaven *for* being a stalker. I'd say that was pretty mentally ill, 
wouldn't you? :-)  :-)  :-)



It's seriously weird behaviour, channelling Judy perhaps?

I wonder who the intended audience is? Maybe there's an imaginary one 
that applauds every such post. That would be a sign of poor mental health!



Well, before I started moving Ann's messages to the Deranged Stalkers 
From Hell folder, I seem to remember her being the person who claimed 
to know for sure that nothing bad had happened to Judy. That would 
indicate that they were in communication, right? So my bet is that 
Ann's "audience" is in fact the person who has been directing her 
stalking efforts from behind the scenes.


But even if this isn't the case, I would suggest 
that...uh...overestimating one's "audience" IS, in fact, a sign of 
mental illness. For example, several times now over the years I have 
asked Jim Flanegin to settle once and for all the issue of whether 
anyone actually *believes* his claims to be enlightened by simply 
ASKING. All it would take is for him to post to FFL, asking those who 
*do* believe he's enlightened to reply and say so. He has steadfastly 
refused to do this, all while insinuating that he has "friends" here, 
as if the fact that they pat him on the back when he stalks the people 
he was told to stalk means that they actually believe his claim to be 
enlightened. Heck, even *Nabby* has never said he thinks Jim is 
enlightened. Nabby probably thinks David Lynch and the occasional 
scarecrow next to a crop circle are enlightened, but he doesn't think 
Jim is. Says a lot, right? :-)


The clear "sign of poor mental health" IMO is the fact that these 
people -- at this point, primarily Ann, Jim, Richard, and Steve -- 
seem to feel that they have not only the right but a "duty" to harass 
and stalk those on this forum they don't like. I suggest that what 
they're really trying to do is SILENCE these people they stalk, 
because *they* don't like what they say. The deranged stalkers 
*pretend* that they're doing this stalking "for the good of the 
forum," or "to protect those who might be taken in or misled by what 
these liars might say," but of course we all know that the members of 
the original Inquisition said exactly the same thing about why *they* 
were deranged stalkers.


I would suggest that the bottom line about Ann, Jim, Richard, and 
Steve's sanity is whether anyone is actually paying any attention to 
what they write. I don't read their posts, s

Re: [FairfieldLife] FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

I agree, Buck, it was an amazing meeting last night. I thought the moderator 
did an incredible job of guiding the huge group so that everyone got to share a 
lot, and many wonderful, practical ideas came out. At one point I felt so much 
gratitude to be a part of this community that is growing in spite of so many 
inner and outer challenges.
 

 On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 8:29 AM, "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com 
[FairfieldLife]"  wrote:
   

     ? “..the role of principle Barry hater - and you have to admire thegusto!” 
 No,we all rate posts as we may read them on spectrum; from posts thatmake: 
Observations, to suggestions, to criticism, by negativity andtone, to apostasy, 
thence to active anger and hating. In reading these posts Ifeel Ann through 
reading the individual postings here simply lost some faith more in Turq by her 
better understanding of his writing and approach here after reading theLenz 
book that was posted here. It is that simple also.  I alwaysread the Turq and 
feel he has a valid perspective from having 'beenthere' at a time, by his 
contrast with spiritual experience likeFleet's, and now I feel I have an even 
better understanding of him asa critic from this recent Freddy Lenz/Rama thread 
on FFL. Context oftenis everything. 
Thatis something that is particularly good about the writing on FFL, thatit 
often can render down what is truth. Judy was very much part ofthat process 
when she was here. Ann also helps with that by virtueof her mind about things 
and by life experience as context aboutthings here. Some here have been pricks 
and Ann may be prickly towards people attimes.  Rick seems to welcome almost 
everyone contributing to therelated topics of FairfieldLife. I thank Rick for 
that. Publicforum is often one of the best checks against theocratic tyranny. 
Therewas an amazing open meeting last night in meditating Fairfield 
whereeverything was on the table in front of a bunch of the higher-up 
apparatchiks of the new TM movement. For upward pressures on the 
organizationbeing beyond theocratic control, FFL has long been a part of the 
calculus of the meditating Fairfield communal culture. Thereis a lot of change 
going on inside right now by virtue of theattention of public forum. Turq in 
his way has been part of that foryears by force of his experience, personality 
and writing. I wouldmiss him if he gets entirely hounded or completely 
embarrassed off ofthis forum. In the same way I feel it was really mean the way 
theyhounded Judy personally off this list and out of this community. Rick and 
the moderators should have stopped that before the end. Iwould hope we could 
all be kinder with one another in process. JaiGuru Dev, -Buckin the Dome 
  #yiv7404855513 #yiv7404855513 -- #yiv7404855513ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid 
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

From: "anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" 

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness
 


  
The human species lack of hard wiring makes us more flexible for learning; we 
do not go out and dig burrows and look for nuts in the forest everyday 
(usually), but it makes us susceptible to the mental equivalent of a viral 
attack. We here have all experienced the attack, and many here are still 
dancing to the virus's tune. This is why I called religion a memetic malady or 
disease. That is different from organic insanity. Religion is induced insanity. 

I can live with that. But I don't see any difference in the end state that the 
"induced insanity" of religion creates and the end state that "organic 
insanity" creates. Either way, one is insane. Maybe it's a Buddhist 
thing...Buddhists aren't really concerned about HOW things got to be the way 
they are, only THAT they are the way they are, and how to make the best of 
that. 

The question for 'spiritually' oriented individuals would be, is there a way to 
construct a system that gives us these experiences of unboundedness that does 
not also wreak havoc with this gullibility weakness in the human nervous 
system. 

But that would presuppose that there is an actual VALUE to these "experiences 
of unboundedness." That has not been established, merely assumed by centuries 
of religious fanatics trying to convince others that its value trumps 
everything else. 

I would suggest going back to the starting point and, if you want to invent a 
better system, make a case for these types of experience having a value in the 
first place. Most religions have never tried to do this. They just make 
declarations like Maharishi did, along the lines of "The purpose of life is to 
achieve these experiences of unboundedness," which then become dogma and are 
repeated and believed by successive generations of believers. But he never said 
WHY these experiences were supposedly worth achieving. 

Start now...what do YOU see as the VALUE of these "experiences of 
unboundedness" you speak of? If you can't establish that they *have* a value, 
then why do we need a system of *any* kind to achieve them?

Re: [FairfieldLife] FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of mental illness

['Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

On 10/22/2014 9:01 AM, Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:
You forget, JR claimed that according to Judy's jyotish she had met 
with some horrible accident.

>
/This is a case in point. Never pass up a tragedy if you think it will 
help you win a religious debate. Thanks, Michael, for making Buck's case 
so clear. You are the gift that keeps on giving./

>



*From:* "dhamiltony...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" 


*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 22, 2014 9:28 AM
*Subject:* [FairfieldLife] FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form 
of mental illness


? “..the role of principle Barry hater - and you have to admire the 
gusto!”
No, we all rate posts as we may read them on spectrum; from posts that 
make: Observations, to suggestions, to criticism, by negativity and 
tone, to apostasy, thence to active anger and hating. In reading these 
posts I feel Ann through reading the individual postings here simply 
lost some faith more in Turq by her better understanding of his 
writing and approach here after reading the Lenz book that was posted 
here. It is that simple also.
 I always read the Turq and feel he has a valid perspective from 
having 'been there' at a time, by his contrast with spiritual 
experience like Fleet's, and now I feel I have an even better 
understanding of him as a critic from this recent Freddy Lenz/Rama 
thread on FFL. Context often is everything.


That is something that is particularly good about the writing on FFL, 
that it often can render down what is truth. Judy was very much part 
of that process when she was here. Ann also helps with that by virtue 
of her mind about things and by life experience as context about 
things here. Some here have been pricks and Ann may be prickly towards 
people at times.  Rick seems to welcome almost everyone contributing 
to the related topics of FairfieldLife. I thank Rick for that. Public 
forum is often one of the best checks against theocratic tyranny.


There was an amazing open meeting last night in meditating Fairfield 
where everything was on the table in front of a bunch of the higher-up 
apparatchiks of the new TM movement. For upward pressures on the 
organization being beyond theocratic control, FFL has long been a part 
of the calculus of the meditating Fairfield communal culture.
There is a lot of change going on inside right now by virtue of the 
attention of public forum. Turq in his way has been part of that for 
years by force of his experience, personality and writing. I would 
miss him if he gets entirely hounded or completely embarrassed off of 
this forum. In the same way I feel it was really mean the way they 
hounded Judy personally off this list and out of this community. Rick 
and the moderators should have stopped that before the end.

I would hope we could all be kinder with one another in process.
Jai Guru Dev,
-Buck in the Dome

[FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[inmadi...@hotmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

I've been around FFL a while, but don't post often as conversations quickly 
become too personal (I don't know folks by their given names)  - and although I 
can wade thru muck and mire, way too much bandwidth is used up on folks dealing 
with their own emotions.

and I can't figure out the forum software, an awkward and inefficient interface 
in my opinion.The older forum made more sense.

[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 I'm still quite busy with real life, but when I see references to "moderators 
should have blah blah blah" it's time for me to remind folks that Rick already 
has the forum moderated as he sees fit. As for Judy, unless I missed something, 
we don't know what's up with her or why she left.
 

 Personally, I don't understand why people would be drawn to engage in the ego 
monkey bullshit that makes up the bulk of FFL's traffic, but it is what it is. 
I do understand why people object to Barry's toxic behavior, but that's who he 
is and what he does, and it has not changed. So, why keep reacting to an energy 
creature who seeks reaction?
 

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 ? “..the role of principle Barry hater - and you have to admire the gusto!”  
 No, we all rate posts as we may read them on spectrum; from posts that make: 
Observations, to suggestions, to criticism, by negativity and tone, to 
apostasy, thence to active anger and hating. In reading these posts I feel Ann 
through reading the individual postings here simply lost some faith more in 
Turq by her better understanding of his writing and approach here after reading 
the Lenz book that was posted here. It is that simple also. 
  I always read the Turq and feel he has a valid perspective from having 'been 
there' at a time, by his contrast with spiritual experience like Fleet's, and 
now I feel I have an even better understanding of him as a critic from this 
recent Freddy Lenz/Rama thread on FFL. Context often is everything. 
 
 
 That is something that is particularly good about the writing on FFL, that it 
often can render down what is truth. Judy was very much part of that process 
when she was here. Ann also helps with that by virtue of her mind about things 
and by life experience as context about things here. Some here have been pricks 
and Ann may be prickly towards people at times.  Rick seems to welcome almost 
everyone contributing to the related topics of FairfieldLife. I thank Rick for 
that. Public forum is often one of the best checks against theocratic tyranny. 
 
 
 There was an amazing open meeting last night in meditating Fairfield where 
everything was on the table in front of a bunch of the higher-up apparatchiks 
of the new TM movement. For upward pressures on the organization being beyond 
theocratic control, FFL has long been a part of the calculus of the meditating 
Fairfield communal culture. 
 There is a lot of change going on inside right now by virtue of the attention 
of public forum. Turq in his way has been part of that for years by force of 
his experience, personality and writing. I would miss him if he gets entirely 
hounded or completely embarrassed off of this forum. In the same way I feel it 
was really mean the way they hounded Judy personally off this list and out of 
this community. Rick and the moderators should have stopped that before the 
end. 
 I would hope we could all be kinder with one another in process. 
 Jai Guru Dev, 
 -Buck in the Dome 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

I'm sure Ann appreciates your straightening her out about me Jim. She was 
making the mistake of trusting her own impression, but now has the enlightened 
perspective from you on my dark motives and inner thoughts.

At first I wondered how you could know about my inner feelings or whether or 
not I even read posts between other posters, but then I remembered: Jim is in a 
superior state of mind and it made more sense. I was amazed that you nailed me 
on "exploiting" Barry's posts although I am still a bit unclear how this 
actually plays out in the, outside of Jim's enlightened head, world.

Thanks for clearing up any confusion about my dark motives, because for a 
second, I read your whole intention as acting out a kindergarten sandbox 
emotional level scene:"NO, Ann is MY friend".
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 So, you must be a man of deep capacity to be able to hold within your 
appreciation myself and someone as different as I am in the form of bawee. 
Maybe one day I'll get there too.
 

 Something to point out, about Curtis, Ann -- Rather than an expression of his 
social flexibility and capacity to entertain multiple points of view, Curtis 
enjoys Barry's anti-social nature, and exploits it fully. This way, he enjoys 
the vicarious pleasure of watching Barry insult and abuse others endlessly, and 
at the same time, tries to ensure by his uber reasonableness, and kumbaya 
attitude, that none of the stink gets on him, personally.
 Curtis is Barry's puppet-master.
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I may not respond point by point Ann. You and I have our clear channel. I 
think we get each other. I am more of a one one one poster here. Steve nailed 
me recently. He said I respond to everyone in sympathetic response to how they 
respond to me. That was a typical insightful naildown from my brother Steve.

You and I do not agree with our perspectives on Barry. But you have separated 
your view of him from my friendliness toward him. I can't tell you how much I 
appreciate that Ann. You are a friend here.  And in my world. I can be friends 
with you AND Barry and appreciate you both for different reasons. That is how I 
roll.  I think you roll that way too. Robin was unable to allow me to be 
connected to people who were hostile toward him and still be friendly with him. 
You seem able to go beyond this. I like you, and I like Barry. What you do 
between yourselves is none of my business. 

Does that work for you?
 

 Ahhh, now I get to talk to you friend to friend. Curtis, you know I support 
you 100% in what I see as your diligent and love-inspired passionate pursuit of 
your art, your music. No one can ever take that away from you. As an artist you 
are rarified, you are special because artists have to wade through tough, 
weed-choked waters. There is little money in it and there is the need to keep 
moving on and progressing even when things seem to have become comfortable and 
even profitable in their way. But real artists are never at rest, so it can be 
grueling and bone-racking. But, I digress.
 

 Of course I can appreciate/like someone who likes or believes in something I 
either dislike or don't ascribe to. bawee commented on my applauding Gervais as 
if I didn't realize he was an athiest. C'mon, really? Of course I can 
appreciate someone who may believe very different things than I do - especially 
when it comes to something as silly as religion or lack of it. But let's not 
talk about bawee, I have my hands full just smacking him into line day after 
day - it is an exhausting pursuit but someone has to do it so I sacrifice 
myself on the wheel of necessity. There will be some reward in heaven for my 
efforts, I am sure.
 

 Curtis, this old internet world is a funny one. Before FFL I never 
participated in any forums and so I had to figure stuff out. One thing is that 
while I am a straight shooter (whatever anyone sees of me here is exactly how I 
am in the flesh) I don't believe this holds true for some others here. For some 
reason forums are an opportunity to become another part of who they are, or 
they simply create something they wished  they were. I don't know and I don't 
care. We all operate from where we feel comfortable or even from where we can 
push ourselves as a sort of exercise in pressing personal limits. But whatever 
it is, some simply cross the bounds of decency (and I use that word in the old 
fashioned sense, decency being what is civil, sensitive and truthful). They 
commit a kind of trespass on the sensibilities of those who are effected by 
such things. They act like a sort of emotional jack hammer. It's simply not 
what I seek out in life where so much is beautiful and delicate and can enter 
your life as the subtlest whisper of revelation and even promise. Jack hammers 
are a dime a dozen.
 

 So, you must be a man of deep capacity to be able to hold within your 
appreciation

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: New version of "If I Had A Rocket Launcher"

['Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

On 10/22/2014 8:44 AM, steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:


I mean, what does this say about someone who wants to share something, 
but can't do so, without a gratuitous slam.



>
/You need to realize, Steve, that we are dealing with a clear case of 
cognitive dissonance. //

//
//Almost everyone admires Bruce Cockburn as a song writer and as a 
singer. We saw him when he performed in Austin at the One World Theater 
last year. He is a great song writer and singer.


But, according to Barry, Cockburn has a "mental illness." Almost 
everyone knows that Cockburn was raised as an agnostic, and early in his 
career became a born again Christian.


Apparently Barry does not want to deal with reality or with paradoxes, 
so he just lashes out at his perceived enemies - anyone who doesn't 
agree with him. Go figure. /

>


I mean, I'm trying to figure out the dynamics of the same destination 
being the place one goes (evidently out of lack of options) for social 
interaction with a place where one despises most of the active 
participants.


Like, I will share something because I really want to share it with 
someone, but just so you know, I do it under protest because you are a 
&%&$#* in my book.


And thoughts Xeno?  (-;


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

Following up, for those who know the song but not the story of how and 
why it was written, here it is, another excerpt from the upcoming 
memoir "Rumours Of Glory." Rated not for the faint-hearted, and not 
for people like Buck and Jim, who prefer their 
sitting-on-their-fat-asses fantasizing how the world works to actually 
getting off those fat asses and going there to see how it really works.


Rumours of Glory: A Memoir by Bruce Cockburn (Excerpt: Chapter 11) 






image 




Rumours of Glory: A Memoir by Bruce Cockburn (Excerp... 
 

Legendary Canadian singer and songwriter Bruce Cockburn delivers his 
long-awaited memoir—a chronicle of faith, fear, and activism that is 
also a lively cu...


View on www.scribd.com 



Preview by Yahoo





---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

For the few Bruce Cockburn fans here, this is just a smokin' video 
version of Bruce performing one of his signature songs, from the new 
DVD included in the upcoming "Rumours Of Glory" set. This should be 
the theme song playing in the background when you look up "Revolution 
Theology" in the Catholic Encyclopedia.


Bruce Cockburn - If I Had A Rocket Launcher LIVE 




image 





Bruce Cockburn - If I Had A Rocket Launcher LIVE 



View on www.youtube.com 



Preview by Yahoo

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

Because it's the Funny Farm Lounge. ;-)

On 10/22/2014 08:32 AM, j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:



I'm still quite busy with real life, but when I see references to 
"moderators should have blah blah blah" it's time for me to remind 
folks that Rick already has the forum moderated as he sees fit. As for 
Judy, unless I missed something, we don't know what's up with her or 
why she left.


Personally, I don't understand why people would be drawn to engage in 
the ego monkey bullshit that makes up the bulk of FFL's traffic, but 
it is what it is. I do understand why people object to Barry's toxic 
behavior, but that's who he is and what he does, and it has not 
changed. So, why keep reacting to an energy creature who seeks reaction?



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

? “..the role of principle Barry hater - and you have to admire the 
gusto!”


No, we all rate posts as we may read them on spectrum; from posts that 
make: Observations, to suggestions, to criticism, by negativity and 
tone, to apostasy, thence to active anger and hating. In reading these 
posts I feel Ann through reading the individual postings here simply 
lost some faith more in Turq by her better understanding of his 
writing and approach here after reading the Lenz book that was posted 
here. It is that simple also.


 I always read the Turq and feel he has a valid perspective from 
having 'been there' at a time, by his contrast with spiritual 
experience like Fleet's, and now I feel I have an even better 
understanding of him as a critic from this recent Freddy Lenz/Rama 
thread on FFL. Context often is everything.



That is something that is particularly good about the writing on FFL, 
that it often can render down what is truth. Judy was very much part 
of that process when she was here. Ann also helps with that by virtue 
of her mind about things and by life experience as context about 
things here. Some here have been pricks and Ann may be prickly towards 
people at times.  Rick seems to welcome almost everyone contributing 
to the related topics of FairfieldLife. I thank Rick for that. Public 
forum is often one of the best checks against theocratic tyranny.



There was an amazing open meeting last night in meditating Fairfield 
where everything was on the table in front of a bunch of the higher-up 
apparatchiks of the new TM movement. For upward pressures on the 
organization being beyond theocratic control, FFL has long been a part 
of the calculus of the meditating Fairfield communal culture.


There is a lot of change going on inside right now by virtue of the 
attention of public forum. Turq in his way has been part of that for 
years by force of his experience, personality and writing. I would 
miss him if he gets entirely hounded or completely embarrassed off of 
this forum. In the same way I feel it was really mean the way they 
hounded Judy personally off this list and out of this community. Rick 
and the moderators should have stopped that before the end.


I would hope we could all be kinder with one another in process.

Jai Guru Dev,

-Buck in the Dome

[FairfieldLife] Bambi [1 Attachment]

[fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[salyavin808]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :
 
  In the same way I feel it was really mean the way they hounded Judy 
personally off this list and out of this community. Rick and the moderators 
should have stopped that before the end. 
 

 Huh? I don't remember Judy being hounded off the list. She got no more 
kickback than usual anyway. In fact, she gave every impression of revelling in 
a good row. And she'd amassed a group of fans, I recall she just quit posting 
and that was that.
 

 I would hope we could all be kinder with one another in process. 
 

 It's the wild, wild web Buck. It's just the way things are done, there's 
trolls everywhere, I don't think Barry is one of them either.
 

 So, what happened at the meeting, who said what and what are they going to do 
about it?
 

 

 

 Jai Guru Dev, 
 -Buck in the Dome 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Hi, and thanks for that - Yeah, I just wanted to point out who is the hand, and 
who is the sock monkey, in that equation. Have a great day!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 So, you must be a man of deep capacity to be able to hold within your 
appreciation myself and someone as different as I am in the form of bawee. 
Maybe one day I'll get there too.
 

 Something to point out, about Curtis, Ann -- Rather than an expression of his 
social flexibility and capacity to entertain multiple points of view, Curtis 
enjoys Barry's anti-social nature, and exploits it fully. This way, he enjoys 
the vicarious pleasure of watching Barry insult and abuse others endlessly, and 
at the same time, tries to ensure by his uber reasonableness, and kumbaya 
attitude, that none of the stink gets on him, personally.
 Curtis is Barry's puppet-master.
 

 You may very well be right Mac, because you tend to have a very insightful 
nature and I, more often than not, find your analyses extremely sophisticated. 
When I log on to FFL I always start at the bottom (oldest) post and read up 
answering certain posts as I go and moving past others. As I was quickly 
scrolling down from the top today I glimpsed some post from bawee who seems to 
address my personal post to Curtis. I haven't read it yet but I will, at least 
some of it. From the little I saw it appears rather unkind and very typical of 
bawee. Let's see what anyone does with this, if anything (although I see Steve 
made some remarks afterwards). I think you and Judy are on a similar page when 
it comes to Curtis but I don't always choose to deal with all the machinations 
that go on here so sometimes I simply find the parts of a person I enjoy or 
appreciate the most and speak to those. There are definite traits about Curtis 
that I admire (his music and his teaching) and as for whatever else might be 
going on I'm not in a position to try and change it. Whatever it is Curtis 
either sees or is using bawee for that is between them and is not somewhere I 
need to go.
 

 

[FairfieldLife] Economists: tax the rich at 90 percent

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

I'm sure we'll hear from the "taking other people's money" crowd here 
but I've thought this would be a good idea for years.  Doubt if we have 
any multi-millionaire US citizens here so we would all get a tax break.  
And the money hoarders would get a deterrent (which was the real reason 
for the Eisenhower years tax rate which was not to make the government 
rich).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/22/economists-tax-rich_n_6024430.html

Billionairism is a mental illness.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

"I
would hope we could all be kinder with one another in process."

This from the guy who said I  and people like me should be targeted with drone 
strikes.




 From: salyavin808 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 11:48 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of 
mental illness
 


  




---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


 In the same way I feel it was really mean the way they
hounded Judy personally off this list and out of this community.
Rick and the moderators should have stopped that before the end.  

Huh? I don't remember Judy being hounded off the list. She got no more kickback 
than usual anyway. In fact, she gave every impression of revelling in a good 
row. And she'd amassed a group of fans, I recall she just quit posting and that 
was that.

I
would hope we could all be kinder with one another in process.  

It's the wild, wild web Buck. It's just the way things are done, there's trolls 
everywhere, I don't think Barry is one of them either.

So, what happened at the meeting, who said what and what are they going to do 
about it?



Jai
Guru Dev,  
-Buck
in the Dome 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Bambi

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

Apparently I have a bird or two who think my backyard camera is another 
bird due to the red LED so they attack it.  Quite funny.


On 10/22/2014 08:47 AM, fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:
[Attachment(s) <#TopText> from fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com 
[FairfieldLife] included below]

Re: [FairfieldLife] Economists: tax the rich at 90 percent

[Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Sure, I'll take the bate! You knew I would. Why tax multi-millionaires more, 
they're already taxed heavily and they are producers in our economy. I have a 
novel idea, why not tax poverty for a change? IF you're a taker, you could 
start working out your karma by having part of what you have taken, taken back 
from you. We should consider taxing people out of poverty. The more you make , 
the less(percentage wise) you would pay in tax to a point. Might motivate some 
to earn more so they could pay less and keep more. Of course there can always 
be exceptions such as for the elderly and retired, disabled or whatever. As 
Maharishi says, "nobody has a right to suffer" and I say  "In America, nobody 
has a right to live in poverty and if they do, they should pay for it.   From: 
"Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]" 

 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 9:23 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Economists: tax the rich at 90 percent
  
    I'm sure we'll hear from the "taking other people's money" crowd here 
but I've thought this would be a good idea for years. Doubt if we have 
any multi-millionaire US citizens here so we would all get a tax break. 
And the money hoarders would get a deterrent (which was the real reason 
for the Eisenhower years tax rate which was not to make the government 
rich).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/22/economists-tax-rich_n_6024430.html

Billionairism is a mental illness.

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Re: [FairfieldLife] Economists: tax the rich at 90 percent

[Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

e bait 
  From: "Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" 

 To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com"  
 Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 9:57 AM
 Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Economists: tax the rich at 90 percent
   
    Sure, I'll take the bate! You knew I would. Why tax multi-millionaires 
more, they're already taxed heavily and they are producers in our economy. I 
have a novel idea, why not tax poverty for a change? IF you're a taker, you 
could start working out your karma by having part of what you have taken, taken 
back from you. We should consider taxing people out of poverty. The more you 
make , the less(percentage wise) you would pay in tax to a point. Might 
motivate some to earn more so they could pay less and keep more. Of course 
there can always be exceptions such as for the elderly and retired, disabled or 
whatever. As Maharishi says, "nobody has a right to suffer" and I say  "In 
America, nobody has a right to live in poverty and if they do, they should pay 
for it.   From: "Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]" 

 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 9:23 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] Economists: tax the rich at 90 percent
  
    I'm sure we'll hear from the "taking other people's money" crowd here 
but I've thought this would be a good idea for years. Doubt if we have 
any multi-millionaire US citizens here so we would all get a tax break. 
And the money hoarders would get a deterrent (which was the real reason 
for the Eisenhower years tax rate which was not to make the government 
rich).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/22/economists-tax-rich_n_6024430.html

Billionairism is a mental illness.

  

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[FairfieldLife] Water, water everywhere....

[salyavin808]

...and some of it is really, really old
 

 Much of Earth's Water Is Older Than the Sun 
http://www.space.com/27256-earth-water-older-than-sun.html

 
 
 http://www.space.com/27256-earth-water-older-than-sun.html 
 
 Much of Earth's Water Is Older Than the Sun 
http://www.space.com/27256-earth-water-older-than-sun.html The finding suggests 
that water is commonly incorporated into newly forming planets throughout the 
Milky Way galaxy and beyond, researchers said — good...
 
 
 
 View on www.space.com 
http://www.space.com/27256-earth-water-older-than-sun.html 
 Preview by Yahoo 
 
 
 

[FairfieldLife] Giant pterosaur footprints discovered in Alaska!

[salyavin808]

But sadly extinct...
 

 Rare Pterosaur Tracks Discovered in Alaska’s Denali National Park 
http://westerndigs.org/rare-pterosaur-tracks-discovered-in-alaskas-denali-national-park/

 
 
 
http://westerndigs.org/rare-pterosaur-tracks-discovered-in-alaskas-denali-national-park/
 
 
 Rare Pterosaur Tracks Discovered in Alaska’s Dena... 
http://westerndigs.org/rare-pterosaur-tracks-discovered-in-alaskas-denali-national-park/
 Tracks left by a pterosaur that shambled across a muddy Alaskan floodplain 
some 70 million years ago offer rare proof that flying reptiles thrived in the 
far north,...
 
 
 
 View on westerndigs.org 
http://westerndigs.org/rare-pterosaur-tracks-discovered-in-alaskas-denali-national-park/
 
 Preview by Yahoo 
 
 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Economists: tax the rich at 90 percent

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

How many millionaires and even billionaires do you actually know, Mike?  
Your upside down idea is just that: upside down.  It would never work.  
Once again a 90% tax on the rich keeps them from their OCD of 
accumulating wealth and their narcissistic drive to be YEN  (Yet Another 
Napoleon). It's not to fund the government.  There are not many rich 
people who actually produced anything other than more money for 
themselves.  They are opportunists who often buy small businesses to get 
new products.


Humans are just not that sophisticated or evolved that they will do good 
things if they have the luck to accumulate a lot of wealth.  In general 
many of the wealthy are not money managers so they turn that over to 
companies who manage their wealth for them and they have only one goal 
to make as much money as possible for their client.  It's like a 
horrible machine destroying anything in it's way of making income.


As for the poor.  Just where are the jobs?  Where are the opportunities. 
Seems we do have a federal jobs program: the military.  That's not a 
good idea at all.  Looking around I find many highly educated people 
shut out of the job market.  The best they can do is to try to come up 
with some winning thing in a world where everyone else is trying to do 
that.  Quite a mess.


So let's add a basic income program too.

On 10/22/2014 09:57 AM, Mike Dixon mdixon.6...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:
Sure, I'll take the bate! You knew I would. Why tax multi-millionaires 
more, they're already taxed heavily and they are producers in our 
economy. I have a novel idea, why not tax poverty for a change? IF 
you're a taker, you could start working out your karma by having part 
of what you have taken, taken back from you. We should consider taxing 
people out of poverty. The more you make , the less(percentage wise) 
you would pay in tax to a point. Might motivate some to earn more so 
they could pay less and keep more. Of course there can always be 
exceptions such as for the elderly and retired, disabled or whatever. 
As Maharishi says, "nobody has a right to suffer" and I say  "In 
America, nobody has a right to live in poverty and if they do, they 
should pay for it. *From:* "Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net 
[FairfieldLife]" 

*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 22, 2014 9:23 AM
*Subject:* [FairfieldLife] Economists: tax the rich at 90 percent

I'm sure we'll hear from the "taking other people's money" crowd here
but I've thought this would be a good idea for years. Doubt if we have
any multi-millionaire US citizens here so we would all get a tax break.
And the money hoarders would get a deterrent (which was the real reason
for the Eisenhower years tax rate which was not to make the government
rich).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/22/economists-tax-rich_n_6024430.html

Billionairism is a mental illness.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Water, water everywhere....

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

But less and less in California.  We're predicting an inverse Okie 
migration.


On 10/22/2014 10:23 AM, salyavin808 wrote:


...and some of it is really, really old


Much of Earth's Water Is Older Than the Sun 






image 


Much of Earth's Water Is Older Than the Sun 

The finding suggests that water is commonly incorporated into newly 
forming planets throughout the Milky Way galaxy and beyond, 
researchers said — good...


View on www.space.com 



Preview by Yahoo

Re: [FairfieldLife] Water, water everywhere....

[salyavin808]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 But less and less in California.  We're predicting an inverse Okie migration.
 

 What have you done with it all, exported it to Vegas perhaps?
 
 On 10/22/2014 10:23 AM, salyavin808 wrote:
 
   ...and some of it is really, really old
 

 Much of Earth's Water Is Older Than the Sun
 
 
 
 
 
 Much of Earth's Water Is Older Than the Sun The finding suggests that water is 
commonly incorporated into newly forming planets throughout the Milky Way 
galaxy and beyond, researchers said — good...


 
 View on www.space.com 
 Preview by Yahoo 
 

 
 

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Economists: tax the rich at 90 percent

['Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

On 10/22/2014 11:23 AM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

I'm sure we'll hear from the "taking other people's money" crowd here
but I've thought this would be a good idea for years. Doubt if we have
any multi-millionaire US citizens here so we would all get a tax break.
And the money hoarders would get a deterrent (which was the real reason
for the Eisenhower years tax rate which was not to make the government
rich).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/22/economists-tax-rich_n_6024430.html

Billionairism is a mental illness.

>
/You are not even making any sense. We don't want anyone taking our 
earned income away from us because it's our money and we earned it. 
//It's not complicated.//

//
//In general, I am opposed to taxation of all kinds, but if I am elected 
I will push for a fair tax system and to abolish the IRS. We are all 
supposed to be equal under the law, so a flat tax makes more sense 
instead of a progressive or regressive system of taxation and a flawed 
or even corrupt tax administration system.//

//
//Flat taxes offer simplicity in the tax code, which has been reported 
to increase compliance and decrease administration costs. A true flat 
rate tax is a system of taxation where one tax rate is applied to all 
income with no exceptions. The flat rate would be applied to all taxable 
income and profits without exception or exemption. //

//
//It could be argued that under such an arrangement, no one is subject 
to a preferential or "unfair" tax treatment. No industry receives 
special treatment, large households are not advantaged at the expense of 
small ones, etc. //

//
//Moreover, the cost of tax filing for citizens and the cost of tax 
administration for the government would be further reduced, as under a 
true flat tax only businesses and the self-employed would need to 
interact with the tax authorities. In general, the question of how to 
eliminate deductions is fundamental to the flat tax design.//


That's what I think./

Re: [FairfieldLife] Water, water everywhere....

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

Nah, it's a water war.  The water moguls want to sell us their water 
instead of having municipal water systems.  Water isn't a right, you 
know, at least according to the Nestle's CEO (they now own Arrowhead 
bottled water).


On 10/22/2014 10:53 AM, salyavin808 wrote:





---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

But less and less in California.  We're predicting an inverse Okie 
migration.


What have you done with it all, exported it to Vegas perhaps?

On 10/22/2014 10:23 AM, salyavin808 wrote:


...and some of it is really, really old


Much of Earth's Water Is Older Than the Sun 






image 


Much of Earth's Water Is Older Than the Sun 

The finding suggests that water is commonly incorporated into newly 
forming planets throughout the Milky Way galaxy and beyond, 
researchers said — good...


View on www.space.com 



Preview by Yahoo

Re: [FairfieldLife] TV series review: The Knick

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

Just in case folks here went looking for "The Knick" on HBO it's on 
Cinemax instead in the US.  Cinemax is also known as Skinemax. :-D


On 10/21/2014 12:16 PM, Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:


On 10/21/2014 11:46 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com 
[FairfieldLife] wrote:
I watched the first episode of Steven Soderberg's new TV series "The 
Knick" a few weeks ago, realized immediately its depth, and Put It 
The Fuck Away Until I Had Time To Binge Watch The Whole Series At 
Once. I have only in the last few days been able to binge watch the 
whole series. I think it's one of the best things on television.


Soderberg did a kind of sideways shuffle into television with this 
series, coming as it does on the heels of his public announcement 
that he was done with making films, forever. Well, TV must not count 
as film, because he appears to have been Pretty Fuckin' Busy making 
this series. He wrote most of the scripts, directed all 10 episodes, 
and IMO basically created a weird kind of masterpiece that I suspect 
in the future will be favorably compared to "Deadwood" as being one 
of the best TV series ever created.


OK, for you in countries in which you'll have to pay HBO prices to 
see this and who resent that, it's kinda worth it. Say it costs you 
ten bucks. Just being able to watch Soderberg's cinematography when 
recreating 1900s New York would be worth ten bucks.


Oh it is far more than $10 or even $20.  You have to have a cable or 
satellite subscription and you can just ask for HBO only.  So you not 
only have to have the broadcast channels but usually one tier of the 
cable networks (FX, AMC, etc).  So you can easily be paying $80 a 
month in programming before they will let you have HBO. If you are 
lucky or try to quit your provider they MAY offer HBO (or Showtime or 
Starz) for free for several months.  Of course this is just a little 
fee finagling.  Believe me, HBO still gets their bucks.  And then 
there are the additional fees these comapanies charge like rentals for 
the DVR, etc.


The thing is the WRONG PEOPLE run the telecoms.  It's like they came 
straight off a carnival midway.  And we wonder why people pirate shows?


One solution is to find a friend or relative who has HBO and ask for 
their HBO GO app password.  Lots of people do this and HBO knows this 
and currently doesn't care.  In fact they are going to offer HBO next 
year via online service without the need for a cable or satellite 
subscription.  I don't expect it will be that reasonably priced (has 
been hinted at $16 a month).


There's some good stuff of TV and of course a lot of terrible stuff 
(which has always been the case).  Some of us cable cutters don't 
really like to get strung along by series and have taken to mainly 
watching movies which require far less time investment.  It's all 
"bread and circuses" anyway.

Re: [FairfieldLife] Water, water everywhere....

[salyavin808]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Nah, it's a water war.  The water moguls want to sell us their water instead 
of having municipal water systems.  Water isn't a right, you know, at least 
according to the Nestle's CEO (they now own Arrowhead bottled water).
 
Ah yes, I've heard about that. He sounds really charming, must invest in that 
reasonable sounding strategy...
 

 Let us know when you are only allowed to breathe Nestle's own brand air and 
I'll send you a bottle or two of London's finest.
 

 
 On 10/22/2014 10:53 AM, salyavin808 wrote:
 
   

 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:noozguru@... wrote :
 
 But less and less in California.  We're predicting an inverse Okie migration.
 

 What have you done with it all, exported it to Vegas perhaps?
 
 On 10/22/2014 10:23 AM, salyavin808 wrote:
 
   ...and some of it is really, really old
 

 Much of Earth's Water Is Older Than the Sun
 
 
 
 
 
 Much of Earth's Water Is Older Than the Sun The finding suggests that water is 
commonly incorporated into newly forming planets throughout the Milky Way 
galaxy and beyond, researchers said — good...


 
 View on www.space.com 
 Preview by Yahoo 
 

 
 

 



 

[FairfieldLife] Consciousness Is The Ultimate Reality, was Belief in God is a form of mental illness

['Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

On 10/22/2014 10:20 AM, inmadi...@hotmail.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:
>

I've been around FFL a while...

>
/There are a few things you may not realize: Most of the informants on 
FFL are idealists of the Advaita Vedanta persuasion.


It is interesting to note that Advaita Vedanta is non-theistc in 
outlook. Of the six systems of Indian philosophy, only one system is 
based on theism. Advaita Vedanta has been compared to the Vijnanavada 
Buddhism which is also non-theistic. So, based on this information you 
can understand why I said there are some informants here that seem to be 
tilting at windmills. //

//
//Apparently there are no true materialists on this list. Most of the 
informants on FFL seem to be transcendentalists who believe in 
consciousness and the law of cause and effect. Go figure or correct me 
if I am wrong about this. Thanks.


It has already been established by our enlightened FFL pundits that 
consciousness is the ultimate reality in Hindu Vedanta and Mahayana 
Buddhism, and by Sam Harris. So, maybe it's time to review our position. 
To reiterate:


My position, and the position of most idealistic transcendentalists, is 
that we infer, from the fact of being conscious, that consciousness 
itself is the ultimate reality - because without consciousness, we would 
not exist. And that the material world is a false projection or 
superimposition upon pure consciousness which is the real. And, we 
accept that inference is a valid means of knowledge. Thoughts and ideas, 
not being material objects, cannot be perceived; they can only be 
inferred or in some cases,intuited.

//
//This is the Hindu Advaita Vedanta view and to some extent, the view of 
the Consciousness Only school of Tibetan Buddhism.


Note:

According to Harris, if consciousness means self-consciousness, then it 
cannot be identified by logic with the human body. Animals also possess 
a physical body, but not rational consciousness.  If consciousness is a 
property of the body, it must be perceived like other material 
properties. But consciousness is neither seen, smelt or tasted nor 
touched nor heard. Consciousness is private and cannot be shared by 
others - it is the very constructed character of knowing.


"Knowledge is structured in consciousness." //- MMY//
//
//Excerpt from mANDUkya kArikA IV by gauDapAda://
//
//"Duality is only an appearance; non-duality is//
//the real truth. The object exists as an object//
//for the knowing subject; but it does not exist//
//outside of consciousness because the distinction//
//of subject and object is within consciousness."/

Re: [FairfieldLife] At The Center Of The Universe [1 Attachment]

[Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Richard, what a beautiful place! Hope it works out for you and Rita. Also I'm 
chuckling because I've just been listening to Rick's latest BATGAP interview, 
Panache Desai. Panache was saying how each of us is the center of our universe. 
Hmmm, it sounded more profound when he said it but I suspect there was quite a 
bit of darshan happening. Intense gaze!
 

 On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 2:20 PM, "'Richard J. Williams' 
pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]"  wrote:
   

     [Attachment(s) from Richard J. Williams included below]  We have decided 
to stay at this place for the winter and we are trying to locate the owner to 
make him an offer. If anyone has any information please forward it to us. If we 
do not hear from anyone soon we are going to build a place like this ourselves. 
Thanks.
 
 
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[FairfieldLife] Re: At The Center Of The Universe

[salyavin808]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 We have decided to stay at this place for the winter and we are trying to 
locate the owner to make him an offer. If anyone has any information please 
forward it to us. If we do not hear from anyone soon we are going to build a 
place like this ourselves. Thanks.
 
You can rent my shed if you like. It's not quite as poncy but I do have a pond, 
you can earn a bit of extra cash by keeping leaves off the surface so the toads 
don't suffocate. Very important that.
 

 You'll have to come into the house to use the wi-fi though, but we could save 
time by just numbering your posts from 1 to 3 and I'll type them in, it won't 
take me long. 
 

 That is of course, on the off-chance that no one else here knows where this is 
or who owns it either

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

MJ, 

 I did a prashna chart about Judy's whereabouts.  I don't have her birth chart.
 

 However, Ann claims that she heard from the "horses mouth" that Judy is okay.  
We should get more clarification about this from Ann as to why Judy left.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 You forget, JR claimed that according to Judy's jyotish she had met with some 
horrible accident.

 

 From: "dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 9:28 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of mental 
illness
 
 
   ? “..the role of principle Barry hater - and you have to admire the gusto!”  
 No, we all rate posts as we may read them on spectrum; from posts that make: 
Observations, to suggestions, to criticism, by negativity and tone, to 
apostasy, thence to active anger and hating. In reading these posts I feel Ann 
through reading the individual postings here simply lost some faith more in 
Turq by her better understanding of his writing and approach here after reading 
the Lenz book that was posted here. It is that simple also. 
  I always read the Turq and feel he has a valid perspective from having 'been 
there' at a time, by his contrast with spiritual experience like Fleet's, and 
now I feel I have an even better understanding of him as a critic from this 
recent Freddy Lenz/Rama thread on FFL. Context often is everything. 
 
 
 That is something that is particularly good about the writing on FFL, that it 
often can render down what is truth. Judy was very much part of that process 
when she was here. Ann also helps with that by virtue of her mind about things 
and by life experience as context about things here. Some here have been pricks 
and Ann may be prickly towards people at times.  Rick seems to welcome almost 
everyone contributing to the related topics of FairfieldLife. I thank Rick for 
that. Public forum is often one of the best checks against theocratic tyranny. 
 
 
 There was an amazing open meeting last night in meditating Fairfield where 
everything was on the table in front of a bunch of the higher-up apparatchiks 
of the new TM movement. For upward pressures on the organization being beyond 
theocratic control, FFL has long been a part of the calculus of the meditating 
Fairfield communal culture. 
 There is a lot of change going on inside right now by virtue of the attention 
of public forum. Turq in his way has been part of that for years by force of 
his experience, personality and writing. I would miss him if he gets entirely 
hounded or completely embarrassed off of this forum. In the same way I feel it 
was really mean the way they hounded Judy personally off this list and out of 
this community. Rick and the moderators should have stopped that before the 
end. 
 I would hope we could all be kinder with one another in process. 
 Jai Guru Dev, 
 -Buck in the Dome 
 


 


 

Re: [FairfieldLife] FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[Bhairitu noozg...@sbcglobal.net [FairfieldLife]]

Judy posted her birth data on a.m.t years ago.  In fact I think it was 
discussed in one of Chakrapani's sessions here in the Bay Area back in 
the late 1990s.


On 10/22/2014 12:45 PM, jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:


MJ,


I did a prashna chart about Judy's whereabouts.  I don't have her 
birth chart.


However, Ann claims that she heard from the "horses mouth" that Judy 
is okay.  We should get more clarification about this from Ann as to 
why Judy left.



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

You forget, JR claimed that according to Judy's jyotish she had met 
with some horrible accident.



*From:* "dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife]" 


*To:* FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 22, 2014 9:28 AM
*Subject:* [FairfieldLife] FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form 
of mental illness


? “..the role of principle Barry hater - and you have to admire the 
gusto!”
No, we all rate posts as we may read them on spectrum; from posts that 
make: Observations, to suggestions, to criticism, by negativity and 
tone, to apostasy, thence to active anger and hating. In reading these 
posts I feel Ann through reading the individual postings here simply 
lost some faith more in Turq by her better understanding of his 
writing and approach here after reading the Lenz book that was posted 
here. It is that simple also.
 I always read the Turq and feel he has a valid perspective from 
having 'been there' at a time, by his contrast with spiritual 
experience like Fleet's, and now I feel I have an even better 
understanding of him as a critic from this recent Freddy Lenz/Rama 
thread on FFL. Context often is everything.


That is something that is particularly good about the writing on FFL, 
that it often can render down what is truth. Judy was very much part 
of that process when she was here. Ann also helps with that by virtue 
of her mind about things and by life experience as context about 
things here. Some here have been pricks and Ann may be prickly towards 
people at times.  Rick seems to welcome almost everyone contributing 
to the related topics of FairfieldLife. I thank Rick for that. Public 
forum is often one of the best checks against theocratic tyranny.


There was an amazing open meeting last night in meditating Fairfield 
where everything was on the table in front of a bunch of the higher-up 
apparatchiks of the new TM movement. For upward pressures on the 
organization being beyond theocratic control, FFL has long been a part 
of the calculus of the meditating Fairfield communal culture.
There is a lot of change going on inside right now by virtue of the 
attention of public forum. Turq in his way has been part of that for 
years by force of his experience, personality and writing. I would 
miss him if he gets entirely hounded or completely embarrassed off of 
this forum. In the same way I feel it was really mean the way they 
hounded Judy personally off this list and out of this community. Rick 
and the moderators should have stopped that before the end.

I would hope we could all be kinder with one another in process.
Jai Guru Dev,
-Buck in the Dome

[FairfieldLife] Baltimore Accent

[jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Share,
 

 Listen to this.  Do you know of anyone who speaks like this?
 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ297s6JHUg 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ297s6JHUg

[FairfieldLife] Re: Consciousness Is The Ultimate Reality, was Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[inmadi...@hotmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

This may be above my pay-grade, but if one is a transcendentalist/idealist, 
then belief in classic cause and effect is incompatible with that belief . . . 
or one has to significantly qualify what is meant by cause and effect.   Many 
folks who refer to them selves as transcendentalists/idealists are actually 
dualists, or simply rebranded materialists (I am not suggesting you are)

Regarding the 'illusion' - when you pick up an object, like an apple for 
example, what does your experience tell you?When I pick up an apple, I see 
it's color and shape, I feel the texture and if pressed with a fingernail - I 
can sense the sticky juice, I taste the tart sweetness . . . and I remember 
apple pies and so forth.  My experience of the apple is passionate and lively - 
Where is the illusion?  Toss in more awareness and all you get is more passion 
- there is no illusion.  'Illusion' is just India of old - we don't need no 
stinking illusion in the 21st century.

Re: [FairfieldLife] FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

What did Chakrapani say about her?
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Judy posted her birth data on a.m.t years ago.  In fact I think it was 
discussed in one of Chakrapani's sessions here in the Bay Area back in the late 
1990s.
 
 On 10/22/2014 12:45 PM, jr_esq@... mailto:jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife] wrote:
 
   MJ,
 

 I did a prashna chart about Judy's whereabouts.  I don't have her birth chart.
 

 However, Ann claims that she heard from the "horses mouth" that Judy is okay.  
We should get more clarification about this from Ann as to why Judy left.
 
 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, 
 mailto:mjackson74@... wrote :
 
 You forget, JR claimed that according to Judy's jyotish she had met with some 
horrible accident.
 
 

 From: "dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife]" 
mailto:dhamiltony2k5@...[FairfieldLife]  
mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 9:28 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of mental 
illness
 
 
   ? “..the role of principle Barry hater - and you have to admire the gusto!”  
 No, we all rate posts as we may read them on spectrum; from posts that make: 
Observations, to suggestions, to criticism, by negativity and tone, to 
apostasy, thence to active anger and hating. In reading these posts I feel Ann 
through reading the individual postings here simply lost some faith more in 
Turq by her better understanding of his writing and approach here after reading 
the Lenz book that was posted here. It is that simple also. 
  I always read the Turq and feel he has a valid perspective from having 'been 
there' at a time, by his contrast with spiritual experience like Fleet's, and 
now I feel I have an even better understanding of him as a critic from this 
recent Freddy Lenz/Rama thread on FFL. Context often is everything. 
 
 
 That is something that is particularly good about the writing on FFL, that it 
often can render down what is truth. Judy was very much part of that process 
when she was here. Ann also helps with that by virtue of her mind about things 
and by life experience as context about things here. Some here have been pricks 
and Ann may be prickly towards people at times.  Rick seems to welcome almost 
everyone contributing to the related topics of FairfieldLife. I thank Rick for 
that. Public forum is often one of the best checks against theocratic tyranny. 
 
 
 There was an amazing open meeting last night in meditating Fairfield where 
everything was on the table in front of a bunch of the higher-up apparatchiks 
of the new TM movement. For upward pressures on the organization being beyond 
theocratic control, FFL has long been a part of the calculus of the meditating 
Fairfield communal culture. 
 There is a lot of change going on inside right now by virtue of the attention 
of public forum. Turq in his way has been part of that for years by force of 
his experience, personality and writing. I would miss him if he gets entirely 
hounded or completely embarrassed off of this forum. In the same way I feel it 
was really mean the way they hounded Judy personally off this list and out of 
this community. Rick and the moderators should have stopped that before the 
end. 
 I would hope we could all be kinder with one another in process. 
 Jai Guru Dev, 
 -Buck in the Dome 
 





 
 









 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: At The Center Of The Universe

[salyavin808]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 On 10/22/2014 2:38 PM, salyavin808 wrote:

 We have decided to stay at this place for the winter and we are trying to 
locate the owner to make him an offer. If anyone has any information please 
forward it to us. If we do not hear from anyone soon we are going to build a 
place like this ourselves. Thanks.
 
 You can rent my shed if you like. It's not quite as poncy but I do have a 
pond, you can earn a bit of extra cash by keeping leaves off the surface so the 
toads don't suffocate. Very important that.
 >
 Thanks for the offer! We already have a pool, but what we are really looking 
for is a site to build on, some place with a view of mountains or the ocean. Or 
both! I had a hiking holiday in North Wales recently, living off-grid by the 
sea with those lofty peaks all round would suit me just fine. A bit more rain 
there than you're used to though, I'll wager. 
 
 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Baltimore Accent

[Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

John, Don and Mike sound like home to me. But not even my brother in law, who 
grew up in Baltimore, has that funny accent. As for me, people often guess me 
as mid Atlantic. But when I first came to FF, people thought I had a southern 
accent. I still say you all!
 

 On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 2:54 PM, "jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" 
 wrote:
   

     Share,
Listen to this.  Do you know of anyone who speaks like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ297s6JHUg
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: At The Center Of The Universe

[Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

dear salyavin, what?! No pic of shed?! 

 On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 2:38 PM, salyavin808 
 wrote:
   

     


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

We have decided to stayat this place for the winter and we are trying to locate 
theowner to make him an offer. If anyone has any information pleaseforward it 
to us. If we do not hear from anyone soon we aregoing to build a place like 
this ourselves. Thanks.

You can rent my shed if you like. It's not quite as poncy but I do have a pond, 
you can earn a bit of extra cash by keeping leaves off the surface so the toads 
don't suffocate. Very important that.
You'll have to come into the house to use the wi-fi though, but we could save 
time by just numbering your posts from 1 to 3 and I'll type them in, it won't 
take me long. 
That is of course, on the off-chance that no one else here knows where this is 
or who owns it either


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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: At The Center Of The Universe

[salyavin808]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 dear salyavin, what?! No pic of shed?!
 

 Sorry, here you go: 
 

 

 

 

 
 Not too shabby is it? Few candles and a nice rug and it's done.


 On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 2:38 PM, salyavin808  
wrote:
 
 

   

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 We have decided to stay at this place for the winter and we are trying to 
locate the owner to make him an offer. If anyone has any information please 
forward it to us. If we do not hear from anyone soon we are going to build a 
place like this ourselves. Thanks.
 
You can rent my shed if you like. It's not quite as poncy but I do have a pond, 
you can earn a bit of extra cash by keeping leaves off the surface so the toads 
don't suffocate. Very important that.
 

 You'll have to come into the house to use the wi-fi though, but we could save 
time by just numbering your posts from 1 to 3 and I'll type them in, it won't 
take me long. 
 

 That is of course, on the off-chance that no one else here knows where this is 
or who owns it either

 



 

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: At The Center Of The Universe

[Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Candles?! Rugs?! As long as it faces east, we're all set!
 

 On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 4:03 PM, salyavin808 
 wrote:
   

     


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

dear salyavin, what?! No pic of shed?!
Sorry, here you go: 



Not too shabby is it? Few candles and a nice rug and it's done.

  On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 2:38 PM, salyavin808 
 wrote:
  

 


---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

We have decided to stayat this place for the winter and we are trying to locate 
theowner to make him an offer. If anyone has any information pleaseforward it 
to us. If we do not hear from anyone soon we aregoing to build a place like 
this ourselves. Thanks.

You can rent my shed if you like. It's not quite as poncy but I do have a pond, 
you can earn a bit of extra cash by keeping leaves off the surface so the toads 
don't suffocate. Very important that.
You'll have to come into the house to use the wi-fi though, but we could save 
time by just numbering your posts from 1 to 3 and I'll type them in, it won't 
take me long. 
That is of course, on the off-chance that no one else here knows where this is 
or who owns it either




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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Richard, it occurs to me that the only thing we can know for sure is that 
awareness exists. And that's because we're aware. But maybe I'm over 
simplifying (-:
 

 On Tuesday, October 21, 2014 4:02 PM, "'Richard J. Williams' 
pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]"  wrote:
   

  On 10/21/2014 12:07 PM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:
  
     Curtis, I just had a lunch of veggies and salmon so maybe my brain is a 
little more up to respond. Maybe! Definitely not as good as Sam Harris  (-:

 >
 According to Sam Harris consciousness is the only thing that cannot be an 
illusion.
 >
 
 Anyway, my questions are: 
  1. how do we know that we know?  
 >
 We know that we exist because we are self-conscious. Without consciousness 
there would be no perception or perceiver.
 >
 
 Which is kind of abstract and probably just me reliving a past life as a 
haetera!
  
 >
 Non sequitur. The fact of consciousness is dirt simple because everyone has 
it, otherwise they would be unconscious. Nobody that is conscious goes around 
saying they don't exist. "Consciousness is the basic fact of life that cannot 
be doubted."- Sam harris
 >
 
 2. what do we mean by knowing? 
 >
 Knowing is having knowledge structured in consciousness; intelligence. 
 >
 
 Ok, we see a tree fall so we think we know that it fell. Of course, 
perception could be faulty.
  
 >
 If appearances derived through one sensory channel appear contradictory, it is 
natural to appeal to other senses for corroboration. When they contradict, 
which sense shall we accept as reliable? If we observe the naive realist 
closely, we will find that at some times he relies principally on his eyes and, 
at other times, on his ears. When different senses corroborate an error, he 
even more baffled.
 >
 
 Or, to go into the arts as you suggested, we listen to a song about first 
love, and from our own memories of that, we recognize the "truth" of the song.  
   
 >
 For past experiences, to be compared, they must be remembered. But memory 
often fails us. What assurance do we have that it is not failing us again? Past 
experiences may have been erroneous consistently. The materialist thinks he 
sees directly back into an existing past which in reality has ceased to exist!
 
 This is called in philosophy an appeal to instruments and like the appeal to 
other senses, to past experiences, to repetition, and to other persons, is a 
confession of failure. For it is a confession that apparently obvious objects 
are NOT self-evident.
 >
 
 But here's my really favorite question, 
  3. Back to your post: what is meant by "worthwhile reality"? 
 >
 It is worthwhile to be conscious because that way get to enjoy life and gain 
knowledge that will set us free. You should know the truth and the truth will 
set your free. There in knowledge higher than absolute knowledge.
 >
 
 Are there some realities that are not worthwhile?
  
 >
 There is only one single reality - pure consciousness - duality is an 
illusion. 
 >
 
 
 
   On Tuesday, October 21, 2014 11:18 AM, "curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com 
[FairfieldLife]"  wrote:
   
 
 M: I hope you don't mind me weighing in,this was a particularly 
thought provoking post. I too am an  amateur philosopher. But I am not sure 
philosophy is the right discipline to answer your question from, except to 
enhance the discussion of "how could we know?"
 
 Here is the section you quite wisely focused on:
 
 "Is a believe in the existence of component or realm beyond the 
physical/material justified?  When I use the expression 'physical/material' I 
include anything that is physical/material, or anything that interacts with the 
physical/material."
 
 M: It seems to me that in a sense this ship has sailed with the advent of 
knowledge about a level of matter that is so squirrely to our sense-bound 
intuitions that it does not resemble  matter as we know it, even though 
technically it IS matter from physics. That we do not know all or in some cases 
very much about this level of reality should give us all some  humility about 
what is real.
 
 But for me those who confidently claim to know about a non physical realm 
through internal experience have not made their case convincingly to me. We 
have a lot of mystery to explore and I am dubious that anyone has cleared it up 
from a mystical tradition. I am putting my bet on neuroscience and physics to 
push back into the mystery in a more satisfying way than has been  accomplished 
by religious and mystical traditions. The deeper reality may be much more 
amazing than has been speculated about or assumed in those traditions whose 
stock in trade has  been "We have it all figured out already" over "Let's find 
out."
 
 The question could be: how could we know about something non physical? I wish 
people proposing these ideas would spend more time studying these questions 
before they announce their  assumptio

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: At The Center Of The Universe

[salyavin808]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Candles?! Rugs?! As long as it faces east, we're all set!
 
 

 Move in whenever you like, but I do charge a premium for correct vastu, just 
give me a day or two to turn it round


 On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 4:03 PM, salyavin808  
wrote:
 
 

   

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 dear salyavin, what?! No pic of shed?!
 

 Sorry, here you go: 
 

 

 

 

 
 Not too shabby is it? Few candles and a nice rug and it's done.


 On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 2:38 PM, salyavin808  
wrote:
 
 

   

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 We have decided to stay at this place for the winter and we are trying to 
locate the owner to make him an offer. If anyone has any information please 
forward it to us. If we do not hear from anyone soon we are going to build a 
place like this ourselves. Thanks.
 
You can rent my shed if you like. It's not quite as poncy but I do have a pond, 
you can earn a bit of extra cash by keeping leaves off the surface so the toads 
don't suffocate. Very important that.
 

 You'll have to come into the house to use the wi-fi though, but we could save 
time by just numbering your posts from 1 to 3 and I'll type them in, it won't 
take me long. 
 

 That is of course, on the off-chance that no one else here knows where this is 
or who owns it either

 



 















 


 

Re: [FairfieldLife] FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[Michael Jackson mjackso...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Why? Its enough for me to know your prediction/projection of her demise/ and or 
serious injury was dead wrong.




 From: "jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of 
mental illness
 


  
MJ,

I did a prashna chart about Judy's whereabouts.  I don't have her birth chart.

However, Ann claims that she heard from the "horses mouth" that Judy is okay.  
We should get more clarification about this from Ann as to why Judy left.



---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :


You forget, JR claimed that according to Judy's jyotish she had met with some 
horrible accident.




 From: "dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife]" 
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 9:28 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form
of mental illness



 
?
“..the role of principle Barry hater - and you have to admire the
gusto!”  
No,
we all rate posts as we may read them on spectrum; from posts that
make: Observations, to suggestions, to criticism, by negativity and
tone, to apostasy, thence to active anger and hating.  In reading these posts I
feel Ann through reading the individual postings here simply lost some faith 
more in Turq by her better understanding of his writing and approach here after 
reading the
Lenz book that was posted here.  It is that simple also. 
 I always
read the Turq and feel he has a valid perspective from having 'been
there' at a time, by his contrast with spiritual experience like
Fleet's, and now I feel I have an even better understanding of him as
a critic from this recent Freddy Lenz/Rama thread on FFL.  Context often
is everything.  

That
is something that is particularly good about the writing on FFL, that
it often can render down what is truth.  Judy was very much part of
that process when she was here.  Ann also helps with that by virtue
of her mind about things and by life experience as context about
things here.  Some here have been pricks and Ann may be prickly towards people 
at
times.  Rick seems to welcome almost  everyone contributing to the
related topics of FairfieldLife.   I thank Rick for that.  Public
forum is often one of the best checks against theocratic tyranny.  

There
was an amazing open meeting last night in meditating Fairfield where
everything was on the table in front of a bunch of the higher-up apparatchiks 
of the new TM movement.  For  upward pressures on the organization
being beyond theocratic control, FFL has long been a part of the calculus of 
the meditating Fairfield communal culture.  
There
is a lot of change going on inside right now by virtue of the
attention of public forum.  Turq in his way has been part of that for
years by force of his experience, personality and writing.  I would
miss him if he gets entirely hounded or completely embarrassed off of
this forum.  In the same way I feel it was really mean the way they
hounded Judy personally off this list and out of this community.
Rick and the moderators should have stopped that before the end.  
I
would hope we could all be kinder with one another in process.  
Jai
Guru Dev,  
-Buck
in the Dome 

[FairfieldLife] Re: Consciousness Is The Ultimate Reality, was Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[lengli...@cox.net [FairfieldLife]]

The way Maharishi explained the "illusion of Maya" is rather different than 
what a lot of people understand. 

 Consciousness is not an illusion, nor is what most people call "reality."
 

 The illusion is that there is a fundamental difference between them.
 

 

 This is the "veil of maya": a thin, non-existent membrane that separates the 
two which is merely an artifact of our perception of things based on having a 
nervous system. Full enlightenment is when you can full see on both sides of 
that non-existent veil.
 

 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 This may be above my pay-grade, but if one is a transcendentalist/idealist, 
then belief in classic cause and effect is incompatible with that belief . . . 
or one has to significantly qualify what is meant by cause and effect.   Many 
folks who refer to them selves as transcendentalists/idealists are actually 
dualists, or simply rebranded materialists (I am not suggesting you are)

Regarding the 'illusion' - when you pick up an object, like an apple for 
example, what does your experience tell you?When I pick up an apple, I see 
it's color and shape, I feel the texture and if pressed with a fingernail - I 
can sense the sticky juice, I taste the tart sweetness . . . and I remember 
apple pies and so forth.  My experience of the apple is passionate and lively - 
Where is the illusion?  Toss in more awareness and all you get is more passion 
- there is no illusion.  'Illusion' is just India of old - we don't need no 
stinking illusion in the 21st century.

[FairfieldLife] Re: Consciousness Is The Ultimate Reality, was Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[salyavin808]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 The way Maharishi explained the "illusion of Maya" is rather different than 
what a lot of people understand. 

 Consciousness is not an illusion, nor is what most people call "reality."
 

 The illusion is that there is a fundamental difference between them.
 

 

 This is the "veil of maya": a thin, non-existent membrane that separates the 
two which is merely an artifact of our perception of things based on having a 
nervous system. Full enlightenment is when you can full see on both sides of 
that non-existent veil.
 

 I'll go along with that, except for the bit about seeing everything on both 
sides after enlightenment. 
 

 

 L
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 This may be above my pay-grade, but if one is a transcendentalist/idealist, 
then belief in classic cause and effect is incompatible with that belief . . . 
or one has to significantly qualify what is meant by cause and effect.   Many 
folks who refer to them selves as transcendentalists/idealists are actually 
dualists, or simply rebranded materialists (I am not suggesting you are)

Regarding the 'illusion' - when you pick up an object, like an apple for 
example, what does your experience tell you?When I pick up an apple, I see 
it's color and shape, I feel the texture and if pressed with a fingernail - I 
can sense the sticky juice, I taste the tart sweetness . . . and I remember 
apple pies and so forth.  My experience of the apple is passionate and lively - 
Where is the illusion?  Toss in more awareness and all you get is more passion 
- there is no illusion.  'Illusion' is just India of old - we don't need no 
stinking illusion in the 21st century.

[FairfieldLife] Super Intelligence: A Boon or a Curse?

[jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

The super intelligent people are supposed to look like the Vulcans, e.g. Spock 
of the Star Trek show.  There's probably a reason why Nature doesn't produce 
them.
 

 
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/humans-genetically-engineered-super-intelligent-185835378.html
 
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/humans-genetically-engineered-super-intelligent-185835378.html

[FairfieldLife] Liberation, was Belief in God is a form of mental illness

['Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

On 10/22/2014 9:37 AM, TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:

>
Buddhists aren't really concerned about HOW things got to be the way 
they are, only THAT they are the way they are, and how to make the best 
of that.

>
/The purpose of Buddhist Yoga is liberation - freedom from the binding 
wheel of karma which causes individuals to be reincarnated and to 
suffer. Everyone already knows that.//

//
//"In the earliest Buddhist teachings, shared to some extent by all 
extant schools, the concept of liberation (Nirvana)---the goal of the 
Buddhist path---is closely related to the correct understanding of how 
the mind causes stress."//

//
//http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism /

[FairfieldLife] Re: Baltimore Accent

[jr_...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Just curious.  There's an article today on Yahoo that states some of the 
Southern accents have been adopted into the Baltimore area within the last two 
generations.
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 John, Don and Mike sound like home to me. But not even my brother in law, who 
grew up in Baltimore, has that funny accent. As for me, people often guess me 
as mid Atlantic. But when I first came to FF, people thought I had a southern 
accent. I still say you all!

 
 


 On Wednesday, October 22, 2014 2:54 PM, "jr_esq@... [FairfieldLife]" 
 wrote:
 
 

   
 Share,
 

 Listen to this.  Do you know of anyone who speaks like this?
 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ297s6JHUg 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZ297s6JHUg


 


 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Consciousness Is The Ultimate Reality, was Belief in God is a form of mental illness

['Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

On 10/22/2014 3:07 PM, inmadi...@hotmail.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:
This may be above my pay-grade, but if one is a 
transcendentalist/idealist, then belief in classic cause and effect is 
incompatible with that belief . . . or one has to significantly 
qualify what is meant by cause and effect.

>
/According to MMY, there are two truths: one relative and one absolute. 
Cause and effect is the law of relativity which states that Causality is 
the relation between an event and a second event in which the second 
event is a consequence of the first. This is a truth based on common 
sense perception so that we can function in the physical world.//

//
//The absolute truth or ultimate truth is beyond or transcendental to 
the provisional truth of the senses. The Advaita Vedanta idea of two 
levels of truth (Sanskrit: satya) is similar to the Buddhist doctrine of 
the two truths (Tibetan: bden-pa gnyis). /

>
Many folks who refer to them selves as transcendentalists/idealists 
are actually dualists, or simply rebranded materialists (I am not 
suggesting you are)

>
/All the authors of the classic Upanishads were transcendentalists - 
they all believed there was a field beyond the senses. But, not all of 
the Upanishadic thinkers were non-dualists, some were qualified 
non-dualists and others were dualists or quasi-non-dualists.//It's 
complicated./

>
Regarding the 'illusion' - when you pick up an object, like an apple 
for example, what does your experience tell you?When I pick up an 
apple, I see it's color and shape, I feel the texture and if pressed 
with a fingernail - I can sense the sticky juice, I taste the tart 
sweetness . . . and I remember apple pies and so forth. My experience 
of the apple is passionate and lively - Where is the illusion? 

>
/Maya is a perception which is not real, yet not un-real either. It is 
real because it is presented to us, but not real in the absolute sense. 
//Maya is like a dream which is true as long as it persists./

>
Toss in more awareness and all you get is more passion - there is no 
illusion.  'Illusion' is just India of old - we don't need no stinking 
illusion in the 21st century.

>
/Maya is just the way things appear, an appearance only. Maya is 
phenomena, an appearance is true but not absolutely true. Maya is not 
false, since it is based on sense perception. //This is the view of 
Advaita Vedanta according to Shankara.//It is a very powerful philosophy 
and in many ways supported by Immanuel Kant./


/Note://

In my first philosophy class my professor asked the class what they 
thought about MIND: I raised my hand a said that mind "is just a 
continuous series of thought-instants that actuall do not move around in 
the mind" and the professor threw a paper wad right at me. Go figure.

//
//"Transcendental idealism is a doctrine founded by German philosopher 
Immanuel Kant in the 18th century. Kant's doctrine maintains that human 
experience of things is similar to the way they appear to us – implying 
a fundamentally subject-based component, rather than being an activity 
that directly (and therefore without any obvious causal link) 
comprehends the things as they are in and of themselves.//"

//
//http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendental_idealism/

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

I have no problem with your friendship with Ann - As she responded, she 
suspects some of what I said is accurate, but doesn't let that deter a 
friendship with you. I don't play the chimp's games, and you, like the chimp, 
seem to have a difficult time reconciling, one the one hand, denying that I am 
enlightened, while finding enlightenment a bogus concept, to begin with. A Big 
Confusing Issue with you two. I recommend TM for both of you for awhile, say 50 
years?? Better get started... :-) 

  ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote : 
 I'm sure Ann appreciates your straightening her out about me Jim. She was 
making the mistake of trusting her own impression, but now has the enlightened 
perspective from you on my dark motives and inner thoughts.

At first I wondered how you could know about my inner feelings or whether or 
not I even read posts between other posters, but then I remembered: Jim is in a 
superior state of mind and it made more sense. I was amazed that you nailed me 
on "exploiting" Barry's posts although I am still a bit unclear how this 
actually plays out in the, outside of Jim's enlightened head, world.

Thanks for clearing up any confusion about my dark motives, because for a 
second, I read your whole intention as acting out a kindergarten sandbox 
emotional level scene:"NO, Ann is MY friend".
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 So, you must be a man of deep capacity to be able to hold within your 
appreciation myself and someone as different as I am in the form of bawee. 
Maybe one day I'll get there too.
 

 Something to point out, about Curtis, Ann -- Rather than an expression of his 
social flexibility and capacity to entertain multiple points of view, Curtis 
enjoys Barry's anti-social nature, and exploits it fully. This way, he enjoys 
the vicarious pleasure of watching Barry insult and abuse others endlessly, and 
at the same time, tries to ensure by his uber reasonableness, and kumbaya 
attitude, that none of the stink gets on him, personally.
 Curtis is Barry's puppet-master.
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I may not respond point by point Ann. You and I have our clear channel. I 
think we get each other. I am more of a one one one poster here. Steve nailed 
me recently. He said I respond to everyone in sympathetic response to how they 
respond to me. That was a typical insightful naildown from my brother Steve.

You and I do not agree with our perspectives on Barry. But you have separated 
your view of him from my friendliness toward him. I can't tell you how much I 
appreciate that Ann. You are a friend here.  And in my world. I can be friends 
with you AND Barry and appreciate you both for different reasons. That is how I 
roll.  I think you roll that way too. Robin was unable to allow me to be 
connected to people who were hostile toward him and still be friendly with him. 
You seem able to go beyond this. I like you, and I like Barry. What you do 
between yourselves is none of my business. 

Does that work for you?
 

 Ahhh, now I get to talk to you friend to friend. Curtis, you know I support 
you 100% in what I see as your diligent and love-inspired passionate pursuit of 
your art, your music. No one can ever take that away from you. As an artist you 
are rarified, you are special because artists have to wade through tough, 
weed-choked waters. There is little money in it and there is the need to keep 
moving on and progressing even when things seem to have become comfortable and 
even profitable in their way. But real artists are never at rest, so it can be 
grueling and bone-racking. But, I digress.
 

 Of course I can appreciate/like someone who likes or believes in something I 
either dislike or don't ascribe to. bawee commented on my applauding Gervais as 
if I didn't realize he was an athiest. C'mon, really? Of course I can 
appreciate someone who may believe very different things than I do - especially 
when it comes to something as silly as religion or lack of it. But let's not 
talk about bawee, I have my hands full just smacking him into line day after 
day - it is an exhausting pursuit but someone has to do it so I sacrifice 
myself on the wheel of necessity. There will be some reward in heaven for my 
efforts, I am sure.
 

 Curtis, this old internet world is a funny one. Before FFL I never 
participated in any forums and so I had to figure stuff out. One thing is that 
while I am a straight shooter (whatever anyone sees of me here is exactly how I 
am in the flesh) I don't believe this holds true for some others here. For some 
reason forums are an opportunity to become another part of who they are, or 
they simply create something they wished  they were. I don't know and I don't 
care. We all operate from where we feel comfortable or even from where we can 
push ourselves as a sort of exercise in pressing personal limits. But whatever 
it is, some simply cross t

[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

An Open Letter To Management 

 Look Alex, I like you, but you are going to have to start doing your job 
around here, moderating, or the perks stop; no more unlimited flights on leased 
jets, the Dubai "luncheon" was clearly excessive, and your FFL "oversight fees" 
last year, exceeded the GDP of Jamaica. I know Rick is trying to make up the 
difference - Interview "service charges" on BATGAP are now at an all time high 
(~$3,000 per event), but reasonable is reasonable. Perhaps an immediate 
downgrade, from the Bugatti Veyron "company car", could be a quick, good faith 
gesture?
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 I'm still quite busy with real life, but when I see references to "moderators 
should have blah blah blah" it's time for me to remind folks that Rick already 
has the forum moderated as he sees fit. As for Judy, unless I missed something, 
we don't know what's up with her or why she left.
 

 Personally, I don't understand why people would be drawn to engage in the ego 
monkey bullshit that makes up the bulk of FFL's traffic, but it is what it is. 
I do understand why people object to Barry's toxic behavior, but that's who he 
is and what he does, and it has not changed. So, why keep reacting to an energy 
creature who seeks reaction?
 

 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 ? “..the role of principle Barry hater - and you have to admire the gusto!”  
 No, we all rate posts as we may read them on spectrum; from posts that make: 
Observations, to suggestions, to criticism, by negativity and tone, to 
apostasy, thence to active anger and hating. In reading these posts I feel Ann 
through reading the individual postings here simply lost some faith more in 
Turq by her better understanding of his writing and approach here after reading 
the Lenz book that was posted here. It is that simple also. 
  I always read the Turq and feel he has a valid perspective from having 'been 
there' at a time, by his contrast with spiritual experience like Fleet's, and 
now I feel I have an even better understanding of him as a critic from this 
recent Freddy Lenz/Rama thread on FFL. Context often is everything. 
 
 
 That is something that is particularly good about the writing on FFL, that it 
often can render down what is truth. Judy was very much part of that process 
when she was here. Ann also helps with that by virtue of her mind about things 
and by life experience as context about things here. Some here have been pricks 
and Ann may be prickly towards people at times.  Rick seems to welcome almost 
everyone contributing to the related topics of FairfieldLife. I thank Rick for 
that. Public forum is often one of the best checks against theocratic tyranny. 
 
 
 There was an amazing open meeting last night in meditating Fairfield where 
everything was on the table in front of a bunch of the higher-up apparatchiks 
of the new TM movement. For upward pressures on the organization being beyond 
theocratic control, FFL has long been a part of the calculus of the meditating 
Fairfield communal culture. 
 There is a lot of change going on inside right now by virtue of the attention 
of public forum. Turq in his way has been part of that for years by force of 
his experience, personality and writing. I would miss him if he gets entirely 
hounded or completely embarrassed off of this forum. In the same way I feel it 
was really mean the way they hounded Judy personally off this list and out of 
this community. Rick and the moderators should have stopped that before the 
end. 
 I would hope we could all be kinder with one another in process. 
 Jai Guru Dev, 
 -Buck in the Dome 
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: At The Center Of The Universe

[fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Looks grand and amazing! Just keep that water moving, to avoid skeeters. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 We have decided to stay at this place for the winter and we are trying to 
locate the owner to make him an offer. If anyone has any information please 
forward it to us. If we do not hear from anyone soon we are going to build a 
place like this ourselves. Thanks.
 
 

[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Ok, done. It was a tough negotiation with the car dealer, but I held my ground, 
and he ended up having to give me a rebuilt, salvage title 2003 Pontiac Vibe in 
exchange for the Veyron. Booyah!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 An Open Letter To Management 

 Look Alex, I like you, but you are going to have to start doing your job 
around here, moderating, or the perks stop; no more unlimited flights on leased 
jets, the Dubai "luncheon" was clearly excessive, and your FFL "oversight fees" 
last year, exceeded the GDP of Jamaica. I know Rick is trying to make up the 
difference - Interview "service charges" on BATGAP are now at an all time high 
(~$3,000 per event), but reasonable is reasonable. Perhaps an immediate 
downgrade, from the Bugatti Veyron "company car", could be a quick, good faith 
gesture?
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 I'm still quite busy with real life, but when I see references to "moderators 
should have blah blah blah" it's time for me to remind folks that Rick already 
has the forum moderated as he sees fit. As for Judy, unless I missed something, 
we don't know what's up with her or why she left.
 

 Personally, I don't understand why people would be drawn to engage in the ego 
monkey bullshit that makes up the bulk of FFL's traffic, but it is what it is. 
I do understand why people object to Barry's toxic behavior, but that's who he 
is and what he does, and it has not changed. So, why keep reacting to an energy 
creature who seeks reaction?
 

 

[FairfieldLife] Post Count Thu 23-Oct-14 00:15:02 UTC

[FFL PostCount ffl.postco...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

Fairfield Life Post Counter
===
Start Date (UTC): 10/18/14 00:00:00
End Date (UTC): 10/25/14 00:00:00
620 messages as of (UTC) 10/23/14 00:03:09

 91 fleetwood_macncheese
 82 awoelflebater
 81 'Richard J. Williams' punditster
 47 salyavin808 
 46 TurquoiseBee turquoiseb
 36 steve.sundur
 33 Share Long sharelong60
 32 curtisdeltablues
 30 Bhairitu noozguru
 26 jr_esq
 23 Michael Jackson mjackson74
 17 anartaxius
 13 nablusoss1008 
 10 dhamiltony2k5
  8 s3raphita
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[FairfieldLife] Consciousness Is Awareness, was Belief in God is a form of mental illness

['Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

On 10/22/2014 4:08 PM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] 
wrote:
Richard, it occurs to me that the only thing we can know for sure is 
that awareness exists. And that's because we're aware. But maybe I'm 
over simplifying (-:

>
Self-consciousness and awareness are the same terms as consciousness. 
Everyone experiences consciousness - it's the universal truth and 
requires no proof. The truth of consciousness is experiential.  To be 
aware is to be conscious; to be human is to be self-conscious.


/"Consciousness is the prior condition of every experience."/ - Sam Harris
>



On Tuesday, October 21, 2014 4:02 PM, "'Richard J. Williams' 
pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]"  
wrote:



On 10/21/2014 12:07 PM, Share Long sharelon...@yahoo.com 
 [FairfieldLife] wrote:
Curtis, I just had a lunch of veggies and salmon so maybe my brain is 
a little more up to respond. Maybe! Definitely not as good as Sam 
Harris (-:

>
According to Sam Harris consciousness is the only thing that cannot be 
an illusion.

>

Anyway, my questions are:
1. how do we know that we know?

>
/We know that we exist because we are self-conscious. Without 
consciousness there would be no perception or perceiver./

>
Which is kind of abstract and probably just me reliving a past life 
as a haetera!

>
/Non sequitur. The fact of consciousness is dirt simple because 
everyone has it, otherwise they would be unconscious. Nobody that is 
conscious goes around saying they don't exist. "Consciousness is the 
basic fact of life that cannot be doubted."- Sam harris/

>

2. what do we mean by knowing?

>
/Knowing is having knowledge structured in consciousness; intelligence. /
>
Ok, we see a tree fall so we think we know that it fell. Of course, 
perception could be faulty.

>
/If appearances derived through one sensory channel appear 
contradictory, it is natural to appeal to other senses for 
corroboration. When they contradict, which sense shall we accept as 
reliable? If we observe the naive realist closely, we will find that 
at some times he relies principally on his eyes and, at other times, 
on his ears. When different senses corroborate an error, he even more 
baffled./

>
Or, to go into the arts as you suggested, we listen to a song about 
first love, and from our own memories of that, we recognize the 
"truth" of the song.

>
/For past experiences, to be compared, they must be remembered. But 
memory often fails us. What assurance do we have that it is not 
failing us again? Past experiences may have been erroneous 
consistently. The materialist thinks he sees directly back into an 
existing past which in reality has ceased to exist!/


/This is called in philosophy an appeal to instruments and like the 
appeal to other senses, to past experiences, to repetition, and to 
other persons, is a confession of failure. For it is a confession that 
apparently obvious objects are NOT self-evident./

>

But here's my really favorite question,
3. Back to your post: what is meant by "worthwhile reality"?

>
/It is worthwhile to be conscious because that way get to enjoy life 
and gain knowledge that will set us free. You should know the truth 
and the truth will set your free.//There in knowledge higher than 
absolute knowledge./

>

Are there some realities that are not worthwhile?

>
/There is only one single reality - pure consciousness - duality is an 
illusion. /

>



On Tuesday, October 21, 2014 11:18 AM, "curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com 
[FairfieldLife]"  
 
 wrote:



M: I hope you don't mind me weighing in,this was a particularly 
thought provoking post. I too am an amateur philosopher. But I am not 
sure philosophy is the right discipline to answer your question from, 
except to enhance the discussion of "how could we know?"


Here is the section you quite wisely focused on:

"Is a believe in the existence of component or realm beyond the 
physical/material justified? When I use the expression 
'physical/material' I include anything that is physical/material, or 
anything that interacts with the physical/material."


M: It seems to me that in a sense this ship has sailed with the 
advent of knowledge about a level of matter that is so squirrely to 
our sense-bound intuitions that it does not resemble matter as we 
know it, even though technically it IS matter from physics. That we 
do not know all or in some cases very much about this level of 
reality should give us all some humility about what is real.


But for me those who confidently claim to know about a non physical 
realm through internal experience have not made their case 
convincingly to me. We have a lot of mystery to explore and I am 
dubious that anyone has cleared it up from a mystical tradition. I am 
putting my bet on neuroscience and physics to push back into the 
mystery in a more satisfying way than has been accomplished by 
religious and mys

Re: [FairfieldLife] FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Why? Its enough for me to know your prediction/projection of her demise/ and 
or serious injury was dead wrong.

 

 Calm down gentlemen. I simply asked Judy to respond in some small way to 
whether she was okay and if she needed something from me as we here at FFL 
hadn't heard from her for a while. This was over two months ago. She responded 
with two words, "Don't worry." That is enough for me. If she needed my 
assistance in some way she would have asked for it. I am not sure her choice to 
stop posting here should be a platform for whether jyotish is valid or not. We 
can only deduce a couple of things from this small reply I got and those are: 
1) she appears to be alive 2) she can still type. For whatever reason she has 
taken a powder and good for her.  
 

 
 









 


 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I have no problem with your friendship with Ann - As she responded, she 
suspects some of what I said is accurate,

M: That would require her to believe that you know my feelings when reading 
posts or whether or not I even read posts between other people here. It would 
be equally bogus for her as it is for you who made this absurd claim. I was a 
bit disappointed when I read that.

 J: but doesn't let that deter a friendship with you. I don't play the chimp's 
games, and you, like the chimp, seem to have a difficult time reconciling, one 
the one hand, denying that I am enlightened, while finding enlightenment a 
bogus concept, to begin with. A Big Confusing Issue with you two. I recommend 
TM for both of you for awhile, say 50 years?? Better get started... :-)

M: Nothing confusing about those two things at all Jim. The more you insist you 
are in the highest state of human development the more glaring the contrast 
with what  and how you post here.   




 

  ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote : 
 I'm sure Ann appreciates your straightening her out about me Jim. She was 
making the mistake of trusting her own impression, but now has the enlightened 
perspective from you on my dark motives and inner thoughts.

At first I wondered how you could know about my inner feelings or whether or 
not I even read posts between other posters, but then I remembered: Jim is in a 
superior state of mind and it made more sense. I was amazed that you nailed me 
on "exploiting" Barry's posts although I am still a bit unclear how this 
actually plays out in the, outside of Jim's enlightened head, world.

Thanks for clearing up any confusion about my dark motives, because for a 
second, I read your whole intention as acting out a kindergarten sandbox 
emotional level scene:"NO, Ann is MY friend".
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 So, you must be a man of deep capacity to be able to hold within your 
appreciation myself and someone as different as I am in the form of bawee. 
Maybe one day I'll get there too.
 

 Something to point out, about Curtis, Ann -- Rather than an expression of his 
social flexibility and capacity to entertain multiple points of view, Curtis 
enjoys Barry's anti-social nature, and exploits it fully. This way, he enjoys 
the vicarious pleasure of watching Barry insult and abuse others endlessly, and 
at the same time, tries to ensure by his uber reasonableness, and kumbaya 
attitude, that none of the stink gets on him, personally.
 Curtis is Barry's puppet-master.
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I may not respond point by point Ann. You and I have our clear channel. I 
think we get each other. I am more of a one one one poster here. Steve nailed 
me recently. He said I respond to everyone in sympathetic response to how they 
respond to me. That was a typical insightful naildown from my brother Steve.

You and I do not agree with our perspectives on Barry. But you have separated 
your view of him from my friendliness toward him. I can't tell you how much I 
appreciate that Ann. You are a friend here.  And in my world. I can be friends 
with you AND Barry and appreciate you both for different reasons. That is how I 
roll.  I think you roll that way too. Robin was unable to allow me to be 
connected to people who were hostile toward him and still be friendly with him. 
You seem able to go beyond this. I like you, and I like Barry. What you do 
between yourselves is none of my business. 

Does that work for you?
 

 Ahhh, now I get to talk to you friend to friend. Curtis, you know I support 
you 100% in what I see as your diligent and love-inspired passionate pursuit of 
your art, your music. No one can ever take that away from you. As an artist you 
are rarified, you are special because artists have to wade through tough, 
weed-choked waters. There is little money in it and there is the need to keep 
moving on and progressing even when things seem to have become comfortable and 
even profitable in their way. But real artists are never at rest, so it can be 
grueling and bone-racking. But, I digress.
 

 Of course I can appreciate/like someone who likes or believes in something I 
either dislike or don't ascribe to. bawee commented on my applauding Gervais as 
if I didn't realize he was an athiest. C'mon, really? Of course I can 
appreciate someone who may believe very different things than I do - especially 
when it comes to something as silly as religion or lack of it. But let's not 
talk about bawee, I have my hands full just smacking him into line day after 
day - it is an exhausting pursuit but someone has to do it so I sacrifice 
myself on the wheel of necessity. There will be some reward in heaven for my 
efforts, I am sure.
 

 Curtis, this old internet world is a funny one. Before FFL I never 
participated in any forums and so I had to figure stuff o

[FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

A wise decision! The citizens' collective, here on FFL, was willing to go as 
high as a 2008 Escalade (option packages B and G only), or Hummer, H2 (fine 
print: downgrade to first class commercial, and meals restricted to a three 
thousand mile radius). Your cooperation is noted. 

 M. Fleetwood "Che" MacnCheese and the people
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Ok, done. It was a tough negotiation with the car dealer, but I held my 
ground, and he ended up having to give me a rebuilt, salvage title 2003 Pontiac 
Vibe in exchange for the Veyron. Booyah!
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 An Open Letter To Management 

 Look Alex, I like you, but you are going to have to start doing your job 
around here, moderating, or the perks stop; no more unlimited flights on leased 
jets, the Dubai "luncheon" was clearly excessive, and your FFL "oversight fees" 
last year, exceeded the GDP of Jamaica. I know Rick is trying to make up the 
difference - Interview "service charges" on BATGAP are now at an all time high 
(~$3,000 per event), but reasonable is reasonable. Perhaps an immediate 
downgrade, from the Bugatti Veyron "company car", could be a quick, good faith 
gesture?
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 I'm still quite busy with real life, but when I see references to "moderators 
should have blah blah blah" it's time for me to remind folks that Rick already 
has the forum moderated as he sees fit. As for Judy, unless I missed something, 
we don't know what's up with her or why she left.
 

 Personally, I don't understand why people would be drawn to engage in the ego 
monkey bullshit that makes up the bulk of FFL's traffic, but it is what it is. 
I do understand why people object to Barry's toxic behavior, but that's who he 
is and what he does, and it has not changed. So, why keep reacting to an energy 
creature who seeks reaction?
 

 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 

 

 "I would hope we could all be kinder with one another in process."
 

 This from the guy who said I  and people like me should be targeted with drone 
strikes.

 

 Well exactly, we have all been rather odious to at least one or two here on 
this little platform we call home. How appropriate that Buck should wish for 
"kinder" since he too has trespassed on other's feelings here. Maybe it is time 
to reconsider how we respond to each other. Buck seems all for it, how about 
you?
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[fleetwood_macnche...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Just to be clear, at no time have I said I was in the highest state of human 
development. The way I learned it, according to Maharishi, was that 
enlightenment meant simply, normal, and everything continues from there, as it 
always has. Draw your own conclusions. 
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I have no problem with your friendship with Ann - As she responded, she 
suspects some of what I said is accurate,

M: That would require her to believe that you know my feelings when reading 
posts or whether or not I even read posts between other people here. It would 
be equally bogus for her as it is for you who made this absurd claim. I was a 
bit disappointed when I read that.

 J: but doesn't let that deter a friendship with you. I don't play the chimp's 
games, and you, like the chimp, seem to have a difficult time reconciling, one 
the one hand, denying that I am enlightened, while finding enlightenment a 
bogus concept, to begin with. A Big Confusing Issue with you two. I recommend 
TM for both of you for awhile, say 50 years?? Better get started... :-)

M: Nothing confusing about those two things at all Jim. The more you insist you 
are in the highest state of human development the more glaring the contrast 
with what  and how you post here.   




 

  ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote : 
 I'm sure Ann appreciates your straightening her out about me Jim. She was 
making the mistake of trusting her own impression, but now has the enlightened 
perspective from you on my dark motives and inner thoughts.

At first I wondered how you could know about my inner feelings or whether or 
not I even read posts between other posters, but then I remembered: Jim is in a 
superior state of mind and it made more sense. I was amazed that you nailed me 
on "exploiting" Barry's posts although I am still a bit unclear how this 
actually plays out in the, outside of Jim's enlightened head, world.

Thanks for clearing up any confusion about my dark motives, because for a 
second, I read your whole intention as acting out a kindergarten sandbox 
emotional level scene:"NO, Ann is MY friend".
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 So, you must be a man of deep capacity to be able to hold within your 
appreciation myself and someone as different as I am in the form of bawee. 
Maybe one day I'll get there too.
 

 Something to point out, about Curtis, Ann -- Rather than an expression of his 
social flexibility and capacity to entertain multiple points of view, Curtis 
enjoys Barry's anti-social nature, and exploits it fully. This way, he enjoys 
the vicarious pleasure of watching Barry insult and abuse others endlessly, and 
at the same time, tries to ensure by his uber reasonableness, and kumbaya 
attitude, that none of the stink gets on him, personally.
 Curtis is Barry's puppet-master.
 

 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 I may not respond point by point Ann. You and I have our clear channel. I 
think we get each other. I am more of a one one one poster here. Steve nailed 
me recently. He said I respond to everyone in sympathetic response to how they 
respond to me. That was a typical insightful naildown from my brother Steve.

You and I do not agree with our perspectives on Barry. But you have separated 
your view of him from my friendliness toward him. I can't tell you how much I 
appreciate that Ann. You are a friend here.  And in my world. I can be friends 
with you AND Barry and appreciate you both for different reasons. That is how I 
roll.  I think you roll that way too. Robin was unable to allow me to be 
connected to people who were hostile toward him and still be friendly with him. 
You seem able to go beyond this. I like you, and I like Barry. What you do 
between yourselves is none of my business. 

Does that work for you?
 

 Ahhh, now I get to talk to you friend to friend. Curtis, you know I support 
you 100% in what I see as your diligent and love-inspired passionate pursuit of 
your art, your music. No one can ever take that away from you. As an artist you 
are rarified, you are special because artists have to wade through tough, 
weed-choked waters. There is little money in it and there is the need to keep 
moving on and progressing even when things seem to have become comfortable and 
even profitable in their way. But real artists are never at rest, so it can be 
grueling and bone-racking. But, I digress.
 

 Of course I can appreciate/like someone who likes or believes in something I 
either dislike or don't ascribe to. bawee commented on my applauding Gervais as 
if I didn't realize he was an athiest. C'mon, really? Of course I can 
appreciate someone who may believe very different things than I do - especially 
when it comes to something as silly as religion or lack of it. But let's not 
talk about bawee, I have my hands full just smacking him into lin

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 From: "TurquoiseBee turquoi...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" 

To: "FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com"  
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness
 


  
From: "anartax...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]" 

To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Belief in God is a form of mental illness
 


  
The human species lack of hard wiring makes us more flexible for learning; we 
do not go out and dig burrows and look for nuts in the forest everyday 
(usually), but it makes us susceptible to the mental equivalent of a viral 
attack. We here have all experienced the attack, and many here are still 
dancing to the virus's tune. This is why I called religion a memetic malady or 
disease. That is different from organic insanity. Religion is induced insanity. 

I can live with that. But I don't see any difference in the end state that the 
"induced insanity" of religion creates and the end state that "organic 
insanity" creates. Either way, one is insane. Maybe it's a Buddhist 
thing...Buddhists aren't really concerned
 about HOW things got to be the way they are, only THAT they are the way they 
are, and how to make the best of that. 

If you do not mind being surrounded by insane people I suppose that is OK. If 
you (or someone else probably) want to make a diagnosis and want to cure people 
of the malady, then a proper diagnosis is necessary as organic insanity and 
intractable, impacted belief systems would have a different treatment. Organic 
insanity may not be curable but certain forms might be ameliorated by drugs. 
With memetic insanity, you basically have to dismantle the patient's belief 
system while at the same time instilling a framework for rational thought. As 
we see here on FFL, this process does not work on the web, something more 
visceral is required, an environment where the beliefs and botched reasoning 
simply do not work at all and provide negative consequences if pursued. If that 
sounds suspiciously like brainwashing, it probably is, brainwashing to remove 
brainwashing.

The question for 'spiritually' oriented individuals would be, is there a way to 
construct a system that gives us these experiences of unboundedness that does 
not also wreak havoc with this gullibility weakness in the human nervous system.


But that would presuppose that there is an actual VALUE to these "experiences 
of unboundedness." That has not been established, merely assumed by centuries 
of religious fanatics trying to convince others that its value trumps 
everything else. 

I would suggest going back to the starting point and, if you want to invent a 
better system, make a case for these types of experience having a value in the
 first place. Most religions have never tried to do this. They just make 
declarations like Maharishi did, along the lines of "The purpose of life is to 
achieve these experiences of unboundedness," which then become dogma and are 
repeated and believed by successive generations of believers. But he never said 
WHY these experiences were supposedly worth achieving. 

Start now...what do YOU see as the VALUE of these "experiences of 
unboundedness" you speak of? If you can't establish that they *have* a value, 
then why do we need a system of *any* kind to achieve them?


Systems already exist, but they are inefficient and quirky, and at best we just 
stumble into them. If the value to the individual is great enough, they will 
find a way. What was of value to me though, might not be of value to another.

I have found these experiences valuable, but it has also been very interesting 
how they have ultimately played out for me. Sam Harris is also promoting those 
experiences in his new book Waking Up, a Guide to Spirituality without 
Religion. These experiences can be fantastic, one can get attached to having 
them but as to how they can be interpreted is another question. What you are 
told in a particular tradition might not be a particularly good way to describe 
them if they tend to reinforce an impacted belief system. My view, at the 
moment, is the nervous system is relieving itself of something, but it is 
difficult to tell just what that something is. I would say the interesting 
spiritual experiences are just artefacts of the system normalising itself, so 
they are not really of real import. If one is seeking heaven and trying to 
avoid hell, one is missing the point of the search, for the point is to 
discover the commonality of both, and avoid being sucked
 either way. For me as time went on such experiences tended to damp out, 
everything kind of flattened out, until one day on a walk there was this shift 
in which the world, as it always had been, was identical with what I had been 
seeking. 


It was a very low key experience, but seeking behaviour simply stopped in its 
tracks and never came back. Because not

Re: [FairfieldLife] FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of mental illness

[steve.sun...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

Is it possible, she may have found true love in Toronto?
 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 You forget, JR claimed that according to Judy's jyotish she had met with some 
horrible accident.

 

 From: "dhamiltony2k5@... [FairfieldLife]" 
 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 9:28 AM
 Subject: [FairfieldLife] FFL Hating Turq and Belief in God is a form of mental 
illness
 
 
   ? “..the role of principle Barry hater - and you have to admire the gusto!”  
 No, we all rate posts as we may read them on spectrum; from posts that make: 
Observations, to suggestions, to criticism, by negativity and tone, to 
apostasy, thence to active anger and hating. In reading these posts I feel Ann 
through reading the individual postings here simply lost some faith more in 
Turq by her better understanding of his writing and approach here after reading 
the Lenz book that was posted here. It is that simple also. 
  I always read the Turq and feel he has a valid perspective from having 'been 
there' at a time, by his contrast with spiritual experience like Fleet's, and 
now I feel I have an even better understanding of him as a critic from this 
recent Freddy Lenz/Rama thread on FFL. Context often is everything. 
 
 
 That is something that is particularly good about the writing on FFL, that it 
often can render down what is truth. Judy was very much part of that process 
when she was here. Ann also helps with that by virtue of her mind about things 
and by life experience as context about things here. Some here have been pricks 
and Ann may be prickly towards people at times.  Rick seems to welcome almost 
everyone contributing to the related topics of FairfieldLife. I thank Rick for 
that. Public forum is often one of the best checks against theocratic tyranny. 
 
 
 There was an amazing open meeting last night in meditating Fairfield where 
everything was on the table in front of a bunch of the higher-up apparatchiks 
of the new TM movement. For upward pressures on the organization being beyond 
theocratic control, FFL has long been a part of the calculus of the meditating 
Fairfield communal culture. 
 There is a lot of change going on inside right now by virtue of the attention 
of public forum. Turq in his way has been part of that for years by force of 
his experience, personality and writing. I would miss him if he gets entirely 
hounded or completely embarrassed off of this forum. In the same way I feel it 
was really mean the way they hounded Judy personally off this list and out of 
this community. Rick and the moderators should have stopped that before the 
end. 
 I would hope we could all be kinder with one another in process. 
 Jai Guru Dev, 
 -Buck in the Dome 
 


 


 

[FairfieldLife] Re: At The Center Of The Universe

[awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]]

 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 Looks grand and amazing! Just keep that water moving, to avoid skeeters. 

---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com,  wrote :

 We have decided to stay at this place for the winter and we are trying to 
locate the owner to make him an offer. If anyone has any information please 
forward it to us. If we do not hear from anyone soon we are going to build a 
place like this ourselves. Thanks.
 

 Please do. We shall have a party there. We shall be kind to each other. I will 
dip a toe into the water and sip some exotic but alcoholic drink and chat with 
a fellow party goer and we shall listen to the cicadas and the moving water 
(because Ricky installed a small fountain in the middle of the surrounding 
water feature to keep the mosquitos unhappy). It shall be so much fun. It will 
remind us of our past lives living in India in the warm evenings when the hot, 
scorching sun has lowered beyond the horizon line and now we can come out and 
enjoy the more moderate temperatures, smell the moistening air and prepare for 
a full moon soon to rise and illuminate the columns and palm fronds with grey 
light. I can't wait. I hope you get the lease on this place - I can feel it 
already.
 
 

Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: At The Center Of The Universe [1 Attachment]

['Richard J. Williams' pundits...@gmail.com [FairfieldLife]]

On 10/22/2014 9:50 PM, awoelfleba...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife] wrote:
>

/I hope you get the lease on this place - I can feel it already./

>
/Maybe we should buy a lottery ticket - I'm starting to feel lucky. Rita 
was thinking we could move to the beach at Malibu, CA - like on that 
show Two and a Half Men. /




/Aerial view of Carbon Beach in Malibu, Calif. /

http://www.forbes.com/sites/morganbrennan/2013/03/06/meet-californias-billionaire-beach-where-larry-ellison-leads-a-pack-of-10-figure-plus-fortunes/