Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
This post shows the elitism that Maha started and that easily took hold on the Fourth Reich mentality all of us have to some degree - in this case that if one is not one of the chosen ones, the TM TB'ers then one is nothing and has nothing of value to contribute. Of course Edg and Turq have covered this but I wanted to give my Never Again TM Self the opportunity to speak. From: Buck dhamiltony...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 8:30 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators 2013 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Damned apostate meditators. Well, I must admit here in considering this that being practical as an experienced and an old practiced meditator on FFL I find myself sorting by apostasy and deleting through posts for merit to read by whether the writers are meditators or not meditators at all, whether being disciplined practicing meditators or not, being just critical meditators or apostate and non-meditators. It saves a lot of precious time spiritually. For after all what spiritually speaking could non-meditators or even apostate meditators who quit along the way possibly have to say anyway.. Sorting Apostasy and meditators does work on a level. You know, there are meditators and TM-movement meditators and then others. Meditators after all are either for it or against it as apostates. As a conservative meditator I'd just assume delete the fallen away meditator-apostates as non-meditators. That works. Damned apostate meditators anyway. Plainly, I don't understand why non-meditators even get to be members here let alone post here. Let 'em be lurkers but posting members, no. Frankly this list here could be spiritually improved quite a lot if Rick would tighten up and clean-up the membership towards people who are at least actually meditation practitioners. Hasten the day. -Buck in the Dome
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
2013 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote: Damned apostate meditators. Well, I must admit here in considering this that being practical as an experienced and an old practiced meditator on FFL I find myself sorting by apostasy and deleting through posts for merit to read by whether the writers are meditators or not meditators at all, whether being disciplined practicing meditators or not, being just critical meditators or apostate and non-meditators. It saves a lot of precious time spiritually. For after all what spiritually speaking could non-meditators or even apostate meditators who quit along the way possibly have to say anyway.. Sorting Apostasy and meditators does work on a level. You know, there are meditators and TM-movement meditators and then others. Meditators after all are either for it or against it as apostates. As a conservative meditator I'd just assume delete the fallen away meditator-apostates as non-meditators. That works. Damned apostate meditators anyway. Plainly, I don't understand why non-meditators even get to be members here let alone post here. Let 'em be lurkers but posting members, no. Frankly this list here could be spiritually improved quite a lot if Rick would tighten up and clean-up the membership towards people who are at least actually meditation practitioners. Hasten the day. -Buck in the Dome
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Damned apostate meditators. Well, I must admit here in considering this that being practical as an experienced and an old practiced meditator on FFL I find myself sorting by apostasy and deleting through posts for merit to read by whether the writers are meditators or not meditators at all, whether being disciplined practicing meditators or not, being just critical meditators or apostate and non-meditators. It saves a lot of precious time spiritually. For after all what spiritually speaking could non-meditators or even apostate meditators who quit along the way possibly have to say anyway.. Buck, I'm replying because you captured perfectly the mindset I was trying to explain to Share earlier. Can you actually *remember* what you signed up for when you first started TM? I can. It was 20 minutes twice a day of meditation, with no required lifestyle changes, and no mandatory things you must believe in or do. There also was no hint in those early days (1967) that TM would make you better than other people, such that you'd someday come to believe that if they didn't do the things you do and believe the things you believe, you consider them not even capable of having anything to say. Compare and contrast to your talk of apostasy, which just REEKS of elitism. Somewhere along the way you got so brainwashed that you seem to believe (or pretend to believe...it's hard to tell with you) that believing the shit you believe and doing the shit you do is so great that not only everyone should do it, everyone HAS to do it to be worthy of interacting with you. That just makes you a fanatic, and an elitist one at that, not more evolved or better in any way. You speak of apostasy, as if those who signed up for vanilla TM owe something to either Maharishi (who is...uh...dead, if you hadn't noticed) or to the soulless dweebs who run things in his absence. Or even worse, to the world, because being a TM meditator you're so...so...SO special and all. Y'know...as in the literal TM dogma that practicing the sidhis in a group makes your thoughts 10,000 times more power- ful than other people's. What insanity. Can you even comprehend how elitist this is? Can you comprehend how classically CULT THINKING it is? I read the things you write and I just roll my eyes.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
Yeah, what Turq said! Bucky, before I die, can you at least just send me a private email telling me you're a living parody and not the nutcase you come off as? I won't tell anyone! Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Damned apostate meditators. Well, I must admit here in considering this that being practical as an experienced and an old practiced meditator on FFL I find myself sorting by apostasy and deleting through posts for merit to read by whether the writers are meditators or not meditators at all, whether being disciplined practicing meditators or not, being just critical meditators or apostate and non-meditators. It saves a lot of precious time spiritually. For after all what spiritually speaking could non-meditators or even apostate meditators who quit along the way possibly have to say anyway.. Buck, I'm replying because you captured perfectly the mindset I was trying to explain to Share earlier. Can you actually *remember* what you signed up for when you first started TM? I can. It was 20 minutes twice a day of meditation, with no required lifestyle changes, and no mandatory things you must believe in or do. There also was no hint in those early days (1967) that TM would make you better than other people, such that you'd someday come to believe that if they didn't do the things you do and believe the things you believe, you consider them not even capable of having anything to say. Compare and contrast to your talk of apostasy, which just REEKS of elitism. Somewhere along the way you got so brainwashed that you seem to believe (or pretend to believe...it's hard to tell with you) that believing the shit you believe and doing the shit you do is so great that not only everyone should do it, everyone HAS to do it to be worthy of interacting with you. That just makes you a fanatic, and an elitist one at that, not more evolved or better in any way. You speak of apostasy, as if those who signed up for vanilla TM owe something to either Maharishi (who is...uh...dead, if you hadn't noticed) or to the soulless dweebs who run things in his absence. Or even worse, to the world, because being a TM meditator you're so...so...SO special and all. Y'know...as in the literal TM dogma that practicing the sidhis in a group makes your thoughts 10,000 times more power- ful than other people's. What insanity. Can you even comprehend how elitist this is? Can you comprehend how classically CULT THINKING it is? I read the things you write and I just roll my eyes.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote: Yeah, what Turq said! Bucky, before I die, can you at least just send me a private email telling me you're a living parody and not the nutcase you come off as? I won't tell anyone! Edg Dear Edg, No one will ever know if I'm nutcase or just jerking your chain. I'm not sure about it myself, so why spoil the fun? Buck in the dome. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Damned apostate meditators. Well, I must admit here in considering this that being practical as an experienced and an old practiced meditator on FFL I find myself sorting by apostasy and deleting through posts for merit to read by whether the writers are meditators or not meditators at all, whether being disciplined practicing meditators or not, being just critical meditators or apostate and non-meditators. It saves a lot of precious time spiritually. For after all what spiritually speaking could non-meditators or even apostate meditators who quit along the way possibly have to say anyway.. Buck, I'm replying because you captured perfectly the mindset I was trying to explain to Share earlier. Can you actually *remember* what you signed up for when you first started TM? I can. It was 20 minutes twice a day of meditation, with no required lifestyle changes, and no mandatory things you must believe in or do. There also was no hint in those early days (1967) that TM would make you better than other people, such that you'd someday come to believe that if they didn't do the things you do and believe the things you believe, you consider them not even capable of having anything to say. Compare and contrast to your talk of apostasy, which just REEKS of elitism. Somewhere along the way you got so brainwashed that you seem to believe (or pretend to believe...it's hard to tell with you) that believing the shit you believe and doing the shit you do is so great that not only everyone should do it, everyone HAS to do it to be worthy of interacting with you. That just makes you a fanatic, and an elitist one at that, not more evolved or better in any way. You speak of apostasy, as if those who signed up for vanilla TM owe something to either Maharishi (who is...uh...dead, if you hadn't noticed) or to the soulless dweebs who run things in his absence. Or even worse, to the world, because being a TM meditator you're so...so...SO special and all. Y'know...as in the literal TM dogma that practicing the sidhis in a group makes your thoughts 10,000 times more power- ful than other people's. What insanity. Can you even comprehend how elitist this is? Can you comprehend how classically CULT THINKING it is? I read the things you write and I just roll my eyes.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Damned apostate meditators. Well, I must admit here in considering this that being practical as an experienced and an old practiced meditator on FFL I find myself sorting by apostasy and deleting through posts for merit to read by whether the writers are meditators or not meditators at all, whether being disciplined practicing meditators or not, being just critical meditators or apostate and non-meditators. It saves a lot of precious time spiritually. For after all what spiritually speaking could non-meditators or even apostate meditators who quit along the way possibly have to say anyway.. Buck, I'm replying because you captured perfectly the mindset I was trying to explain to Share earlier. Can you actually *remember* what you signed up for when you first started TM? I can. It was 20 minutes twice a day of meditation, with no required lifestyle changes, and no mandatory things you must believe in or do. That's pretty much what I remember when I began in 1970. Even attending MIU from 1975-1980 it was pretty easy going. If I had seen a Raja or been as hog tied as many on campus sound like they are today I would have been very 'outta there'. Instead, I found MIU to be a very progressive and positive place where you had highly educated and respected faculty, a demographic of students that included 18 to 45 year olds and a liberalness that included looking the other way when the dorm supervisor knew I was basically living in my boyfriend's on campus (males only) dormitory room every night. FF itself included meditators and townspeople. No travelling side shows, no disgruntled ex TM'ers. If you weren't meditating why in the hell would you stay in FF? No one did. There were a couple of TM businesses including a gift shop and a restaurant, that was about it. MIU was a small blot on the otherwise 'normal' landscape of farms, small local businesses and the non- meditating native community. There also was no hint in those early days (1967) that TM would make you better than other people, such that you'd someday come to believe that if they didn't do the things you do and believe the things you believe, you consider them not even capable of having anything to say. Compare and contrast to your talk of apostasy, which just REEKS of elitism. Somewhere along the way you got so brainwashed that you seem to believe (or pretend to believe...it's hard to tell with you) that believing the shit you believe and doing the shit you do is so great that not only everyone should do it, everyone HAS to do it to be worthy of interacting with you. That just makes you a fanatic, and an elitist one at that, not more evolved or better in any way. You speak of apostasy, as if those who signed up for vanilla TM owe something to either Maharishi (who is...uh...dead, if you hadn't noticed) or to the soulless dweebs who run things in his absence. Or even worse, to the world, because being a TM meditator you're so...so...SO special and all. Y'know...as in the literal TM dogma that practicing the sidhis in a group makes your thoughts 10,000 times more power- ful than other people's. What insanity. I might have said this a little differently (Ann vs Barry style) but I have to say, I can't argue with anything here. Can you even comprehend how elitist this is? Can you comprehend how classically CULT THINKING it is? I read the things you write and I just roll my eyes. If I thought, for one minute, that Buck was only half serious he could be somewhat humorous. Instead, I find him a bit scary and am thankful he doesn't (hopefully) hold political office or believe stringently in the second amendment.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
I see Buck as a Stephen Colbert-type figure. He plays a certain role here but what he really believes is a different matter. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote: Yeah, what Turq said! Bucky, before I die, can you at least just send me a private email telling me you're a living parody and not the nutcase you come off as? I won't tell anyone! Edg Dear Edg, No one will ever know if I'm nutcase or just jerking your chain. I'm not sure about it myself, so why spoil the fun? Buck in the dome. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Damned apostate meditators. Well, I must admit here in considering this that being practical as an experienced and an old practiced meditator on FFL I find myself sorting by apostasy and deleting through posts for merit to read by whether the writers are meditators or not meditators at all, whether being disciplined practicing meditators or not, being just critical meditators or apostate and non-meditators. It saves a lot of precious time spiritually. For after all what spiritually speaking could non-meditators or even apostate meditators who quit along the way possibly have to say anyway.. Buck, I'm replying because you captured perfectly the mindset I was trying to explain to Share earlier. Can you actually *remember* what you signed up for when you first started TM? I can. It was 20 minutes twice a day of meditation, with no required lifestyle changes, and no mandatory things you must believe in or do. There also was no hint in those early days (1967) that TM would make you better than other people, such that you'd someday come to believe that if they didn't do the things you do and believe the things you believe, you consider them not even capable of having anything to say. Compare and contrast to your talk of apostasy, which just REEKS of elitism. Somewhere along the way you got so brainwashed that you seem to believe (or pretend to believe...it's hard to tell with you) that believing the shit you believe and doing the shit you do is so great that not only everyone should do it, everyone HAS to do it to be worthy of interacting with you. That just makes you a fanatic, and an elitist one at that, not more evolved or better in any way. You speak of apostasy, as if those who signed up for vanilla TM owe something to either Maharishi (who is...uh...dead, if you hadn't noticed) or to the soulless dweebs who run things in his absence. Or even worse, to the world, because being a TM meditator you're so...so...SO special and all. Y'know...as in the literal TM dogma that practicing the sidhis in a group makes your thoughts 10,000 times more power- ful than other people's. What insanity. Can you even comprehend how elitist this is? Can you comprehend how classically CULT THINKING it is? I read the things you write and I just roll my eyes.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
I've had 2 long chats with Buck in the local health food store and I'm still not sure when he's being ironic in his posts. For the record, in person he comes across as a healthy, down to earth guy with a good sense of humor and well rounded life. I bet like me, he enjoys the variety on FFL. I could be wrong. Nonetheless I'm leaning in feste's direction on this one. And I'm guessing that it's almost impossible for a farmer to have an elitist 'tude about anything. For that matter, impossible for anyone living in Iowa weather. Almost impossible to feel important or special when that wind comes sweeping in from the north. Or when the sun is blazing down day after day, scorching everything in sight. And if the weather don't humble you, the aging body will. Life's got it all figured out for sure (-: Soldier on Buck in Dome. Share in Other Dome also soldiering on From: feste37 fest...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 9:14 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators I see Buck as a Stephen Colbert-type figure. He plays a certain role here but what he really believes is a different matter. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote: Yeah, what Turq said! Bucky, before I die, can you at least just send me a private email telling me you're a living parody and not the nutcase you come off as? I won't tell anyone! Edg Dear Edg, No one will ever know if I'm nutcase or just jerking your chain. I'm not sure about it myself, so why spoil the fun? Buck in the dome. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Damned apostate meditators. Well, I must admit here in considering this that being practical as an experienced and an old practiced meditator on FFL I find myself sorting by apostasy and deleting through posts for merit to read by whether the writers are meditators or not meditators at all, whether being disciplined practicing meditators or not, being just critical meditators or apostate and non-meditators. It saves a lot of precious time spiritually. For after all what spiritually speaking could non-meditators or even apostate meditators who quit along the way possibly have to say anyway.. Buck, I'm replying because you captured perfectly the mindset I was trying to explain to Share earlier. Can you actually *remember* what you signed up for when you first started TM? I can. It was 20 minutes twice a day of meditation, with no required lifestyle changes, and no mandatory things you must believe in or do. There also was no hint in those early days (1967) that TM would make you better than other people, such that you'd someday come to believe that if they didn't do the things you do and believe the things you believe, you consider them not even capable of having anything to say. Compare and contrast to your talk of apostasy, which just REEKS of elitism. Somewhere along the way you got so brainwashed that you seem to believe (or pretend to believe...it's hard to tell with you) that believing the shit you believe and doing the shit you do is so great that not only everyone should do it, everyone HAS to do it to be worthy of interacting with you. That just makes you a fanatic, and an elitist one at that, not more evolved or better in any way. You speak of apostasy, as if those who signed up for vanilla TM owe something to either Maharishi (who is...uh...dead, if you hadn't noticed) or to the soulless dweebs who run things in his absence. Or even worse, to the world, because being a TM meditator you're so...so...SO special and all. Y'know...as in the literal TM dogma that practicing the sidhis in a group makes your thoughts 10,000 times more power- ful than other people's. What insanity. Can you even comprehend how elitist this is? Can you comprehend how classically CULT THINKING it is? I read the things you write and I just roll my eyes.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
I'm not sure what the weather has to do with it, but Buck in the dome is a paradox, since he seems to endorse the same brand of meditator fascism that was also responsible for exiling him from the dome for so many years. He cannot rail against the exclusionary policies of the TMO at the same time as he endorses them without raising questions about what he actually does believe. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: I've had 2 long chats with Buck in the local health food store and I'm still not sure when he's being ironic in his posts. For the record, in person he comes across as a healthy, down to earth guy with a good sense of humor and well rounded life. I bet like me, he enjoys the variety on FFL. I could be wrong. Nonetheless I'm leaning in feste's direction on this one. And I'm guessing that it's almost impossible for a farmer to have an elitist 'tude about anything. For that matter, impossible for anyone living in Iowa weather. Almost impossible to feel important or special when that wind comes sweeping in from the north. Or when the sun is blazing down day after day, scorching everything in sight. And if the weather don't humble you, the aging body will. Life's got it all figured out for sure (-: Soldier on Buck in Dome. Share in Other Dome also soldiering on From: feste37 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 9:14 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators  I see Buck as a Stephen Colbert-type figure. He plays a certain role here but what he really believes is a different matter. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote: Yeah, what Turq said! Bucky, before I die, can you at least just send me a private email telling me you're a living parody and not the nutcase you come off as? I won't tell anyone! Edg Dear Edg, No one will ever know if I'm nutcase or just jerking your chain. I'm not sure about it myself, so why spoil the fun? Buck in the dome. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Damned apostate meditators. Well, I must admit here in considering this that being practical as an experienced and an old practiced meditator on FFL I find myself sorting by apostasy and deleting through posts for merit to read by whether the writers are meditators or not meditators at all, whether being disciplined practicing meditators or not, being just critical meditators or apostate and non-meditators. It saves a lot of precious time spiritually. For after all what spiritually speaking could non-meditators or even apostate meditators who quit along the way possibly have to say anyway.. Buck, I'm replying because you captured perfectly the mindset I was trying to explain to Share earlier. Can you actually *remember* what you signed up for when you first started TM? I can. It was 20 minutes twice a day of meditation, with no required lifestyle changes, and no mandatory things you must believe in or do. There also was no hint in those early days (1967) that TM would make you better than other people, such that you'd someday come to believe that if they didn't do the things you do and believe the things you believe, you consider them not even capable of having anything to say. Compare and contrast to your talk of apostasy, which just REEKS of elitism. Somewhere along the way you got so brainwashed that you seem to believe (or pretend to believe...it's hard to tell with you) that believing the shit you believe and doing the shit you do is so great that not only everyone should do it, everyone HAS to do it to be worthy of interacting with you. That just makes you a fanatic, and an elitist one at that, not more evolved or better in any way. You speak of apostasy, as if those who signed up for vanilla TM owe something to either Maharishi (who is...uh...dead, if you hadn't noticed) or to the soulless dweebs who run things in his absence. Or even worse, to the world, because being a TM meditator you're so...so...SO special and all. Y'know...as in the literal TM dogma that practicing the sidhis in a group makes your thoughts 10,000 times more power- ful than other people's. What insanity. Can you even comprehend how elitist this is? Can you comprehend how classically CULT THINKING it is? I read the things you write and I just roll my eyes.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
Hear hear! Couldn't have said it better! From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 6:14 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators --- In mailto:FairfieldLife%40yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Damned apostate meditators. Well, I must admit here in considering this that being practical as an experienced and an old practiced meditator on FFL I find myself sorting by apostasy and deleting through posts for merit to read by whether the writers are meditators or not meditators at all, whether being disciplined practicing meditators or not, being just critical meditators or apostate and non-meditators. It saves a lot of precious time spiritually. For after all what spiritually speaking could non-meditators or even apostate meditators who quit along the way possibly have to say anyway.. Buck, I'm replying because you captured perfectly the mindset I was trying to explain to Share earlier. Can you actually *remember* what you signed up for when you first started TM? I can. It was 20 minutes twice a day of meditation, with no required lifestyle changes, and no mandatory things you must believe in or do. There also was no hint in those early days (1967) that TM would make you better than other people, such that you'd someday come to believe that if they didn't do the things you do and believe the things you believe, you consider them not even capable of having anything to say. Compare and contrast to your talk of apostasy, which just REEKS of elitism. Somewhere along the way you got so brainwashed that you seem to believe (or pretend to believe...it's hard to tell with you) that believing the shit you believe and doing the shit you do is so great that not only everyone should do it, everyone HAS to do it to be worthy of interacting with you. That just makes you a fanatic, and an elitist one at that, not more evolved or better in any way. You speak of apostasy, as if those who signed up for vanilla TM owe something to either Maharishi (who is...uh...dead, if you hadn't noticed) or to the soulless dweebs who run things in his absence. Or even worse, to the world, because being a TM meditator you're so...so...SO special and all. Y'know...as in the literal TM dogma that practicing the sidhis in a group makes your thoughts 10,000 times more power- ful than other people's. What insanity. Can you even comprehend how elitist this is? Can you comprehend how classically CULT THINKING it is? I read the things you write and I just roll my eyes.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 wrote: I'm not sure what the weather has to do with it, but Buck in the dome is a paradox, since he seems to endorse the same brand of meditator fascism that was also responsible for exiling him from the dome for so many years. He cannot rail against the exclusionary policies of the TMO at the same time as he endorses them without raising questions about what he actually does believe. Nicely said and I would say bullseye on that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long wrote: I've had 2 long chats with Buck in the local health food store and I'm still not sure when he's being ironic in his posts. For the record, in person he comes across as a healthy, down to earth guy with a good sense of humor and well rounded life. I bet like me, he enjoys the variety on FFL. I could be wrong. Nonetheless I'm leaning in feste's direction on this one. And I'm guessing that it's almost impossible for a farmer to have an elitist 'tude about anything. For that matter, impossible for anyone living in Iowa weather. Almost impossible to feel important or special when that wind comes sweeping in from the north. Or when the sun is blazing down day after day, scorching everything in sight. And if the weather don't humble you, the aging body will. Life's got it all figured out for sure (-: Soldier on Buck in Dome. Share in Other Dome also soldiering on From: feste37 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2013 9:14 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators  I see Buck as a Stephen Colbert-type figure. He plays a certain role here but what he really believes is a different matter. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, raunchydog wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung wrote: Yeah, what Turq said! Bucky, before I die, can you at least just send me a private email telling me you're a living parody and not the nutcase you come off as? I won't tell anyone! Edg Dear Edg, No one will ever know if I'm nutcase or just jerking your chain. I'm not sure about it myself, so why spoil the fun? Buck in the dome. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Damned apostate meditators. Well, I must admit here in considering this that being practical as an experienced and an old practiced meditator on FFL I find myself sorting by apostasy and deleting through posts for merit to read by whether the writers are meditators or not meditators at all, whether being disciplined practicing meditators or not, being just critical meditators or apostate and non-meditators. It saves a lot of precious time spiritually. For after all what spiritually speaking could non-meditators or even apostate meditators who quit along the way possibly have to say anyway.. Buck, I'm replying because you captured perfectly the mindset I was trying to explain to Share earlier. Can you actually *remember* what you signed up for when you first started TM? I can. It was 20 minutes twice a day of meditation, with no required lifestyle changes, and no mandatory things you must believe in or do. There also was no hint in those early days (1967) that TM would make you better than other people, such that you'd someday come to believe that if they didn't do the things you do and believe the things you believe, you consider them not even capable of having anything to say. Compare and contrast to your talk of apostasy, which just REEKS of elitism. Somewhere along the way you got so brainwashed that you seem to believe (or pretend to believe...it's hard to tell with you) that believing the shit you believe and doing the shit you do is so great that not only everyone should do it, everyone HAS to do it to be worthy of interacting with you. That just makes you a fanatic, and an elitist one at that, not more evolved or better in any way. You speak of apostasy, as if those who signed up for vanilla TM owe something to either Maharishi (who is...uh...dead, if you hadn't noticed) or to the soulless dweebs who run things in his absence. Or even worse, to the world, because being a TM meditator you're so...so...SO special and all. Y'know...as in the literal TM dogma that practicing the sidhis in a group makes your thoughts 10,000 times more power- ful than other people's. What insanity. Can you even comprehend how elitist this is? Can you comprehend how classically CULT
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
On 01/03/2013 06:14 AM, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Damned apostate meditators. Well, I must admit here in considering this that being practical as an experienced and an old practiced meditator on FFL I find myself sorting by apostasy and deleting through posts for merit to read by whether the writers are meditators or not meditators at all, whether being disciplined practicing meditators or not, being just critical meditators or apostate and non-meditators. It saves a lot of precious time spiritually. For after all what spiritually speaking could non-meditators or even apostate meditators who quit along the way possibly have to say anyway.. Buck, I'm replying because you captured perfectly the mindset I was trying to explain to Share earlier. Can you actually *remember* what you signed up for when you first started TM? I can. It was 20 minutes twice a day of meditation, with no required lifestyle changes, and no mandatory things you must believe in or do. There also was no hint in those early days (1967) that TM would make you better than other people, such that you'd someday come to believe that if they didn't do the things you do and believe the things you believe, you consider them not even capable of having anything to say. Compare and contrast to your talk of apostasy, which just REEKS of elitism. Somewhere along the way you got so brainwashed that you seem to believe (or pretend to believe...it's hard to tell with you) that believing the shit you believe and doing the shit you do is so great that not only everyone should do it, everyone HAS to do it to be worthy of interacting with you. So Indians are wasting their time going to yogis to get wisdom? What about seeing Buddhist monks and Llamas? I know you have this bone to chew about elitism and probably well earned where the superiority is imaginary via dogma as in TM. But shortly after I learned TM I started shouting awareness when people would almost walk into me or someone as they apparently were half asleep. Maybe the only thing that Scientology has right is that much of the populace is sleep walking. I didn't just learn meditation or tantra to become just another bump or ordinary person. Sure there are lots of ordinary people who are bright but you have to examine human behavior and find they may only be bright in certain areas. I think Rick recently mentioned this phenomena about intelligence from Ken Wilber's perspective. Intelligence can be very specialized. That's why you can have brilliant college professors known to the community as absent minded because don't have street smarts of an undereducated person. I talk to people everyday that are bright or have good street smarts but are clueless in seeing the bigger picture which is what road to enlightenment provides. Enlightenment is about rising above the average. But then it is supposed to be fair that anyone should be able to start down the path if they chose (and not limited to ridiculous pricing). It's up to the masses if they want to rise above their current morass which give them much grief.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 wrote: I see Buck as a Stephen Colbert-type figure. On the *nose*, feste. He plays a certain role here but what he really believes is a different matter.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
welcome back, authfriend. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, feste37 wrote: I see Buck as a Stephen Colbert-type figure. On the *nose*, feste. He plays a certain role here but what he really believes is a different matter.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Damned apostate meditators. Well, I must admit here in considering this that being practical as an experienced and an old practiced meditator on FFL I find myself sorting by apostasy and deleting through posts for merit to read by whether the writers are meditators or not meditators at all, whether being disciplined practicing meditators or not, being just critical meditators or apostate and non-meditators. It saves a lot of precious time spiritually. For after all what spiritually speaking could non-meditators or even apostate meditators who quit along the way possibly have to say anyway.. Buck, I'm replying because you captured perfectly the mindset I was trying to explain to Share earlier. Can you actually *remember* what you signed up for when you first started TM? I can. It was 20 minutes twice a day of meditation, with no required lifestyle changes, and no mandatory things you must believe in or do. There also was no hint in those early days (1967) that TM would make you better than other people, such that you'd someday come to believe that if they didn't do the things you do and believe the things you believe, you consider them not even capable of having anything to say. Compare and contrast to your talk of apostasy, which just REEKS of elitism. Somewhere along the way you got so brainwashed that you seem to believe (or pretend to believe...it's hard to tell with you) that believing the shit you believe and doing the shit you do is so great that not only everyone should do it, everyone HAS to do it to be worthy of interacting with you. That just makes you a fanatic, and an elitist one at that, not more evolved or better in any way. You speak of apostasy, as if those who signed up for vanilla TM owe something to either Maharishi (who is...uh...dead, if you hadn't noticed) or to the soulless dweebs who run things in his absence. Or even worse, to the world, because being a TM meditator you're so...so...SO special and all. Y'know...as in the literal TM dogma that practicing the sidhis in a group makes your thoughts 10,000 times more power- ful than other people's. What insanity. Can you even comprehend how elitist this is? Can you comprehend how classically CULT THINKING it is? I read the things you write and I just roll my eyes. Dear Turqb, I ain't no believer. Truly I am fundamental. I know my experience and the science. Clear cut. I only read your posts because you have admitted here to still being a (practicing) meditator. I care about that. I don't have time for quitters here. -Buck, in the Dome
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators to Xeno 2
Still not gonna do justice to what you've written here Zeno but want to share a few thoughts. I also love the story of how Byron Katie awoke cowering under the bed with a bug crawling across her leg. Similar to Tolle, she spent some time integrating, but rather than on a park bench, out on a mesa. The Native Americans called her She Who Listens To the Wind. And friends recognized something valuable in her and began asking for her advice. Thus The Work was born. I LOVE when you say that enlightenment is the greatest joke in the universe. And also that it turns one into an apostate. Maybe that will happen to me. But for now, I'm grateful to Maharishi for giving me a technique that transcends its own activity. So that I do not feel bound to it or to him. The paradox is that this is exactly what makes me feel most grateful. Share From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:07 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: ...the surprising aspect of Tolle, or some others like Alan Watts or Das Goravani for example, is that there is no mention of them having anything to do with TM, and yet they seem like they have more to teach about spirituality than pretty much anyone I know of in the TMO. That being the case, I don't see why the original post would want to ban non-tmer's from posting here. The existence of people like Tolle, Watts, Goravani, Ravi Shankar, etc... indicates that there can be a great depth of wisdom outside of our own spiritual practices. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: ...I agree that TMers are not necessarily more evolved or knowledgeable or calmer in turmoil or overall better humans than others. However I also want to bring up an experience that has puzzled me for years. It came up when, for emotional healing, I got involved with non TM groups. BTW, both groups contained ex TMers as well as long term practicing TMers and non TMers. To me, the non TMers in general just did not feel natural, which is not exactly the best word but comes closest. Maybe unstraining is a better way to say it. Some subtle energy of settledness missing. Again, I'm fumbling for words and thinking out loud here. But wanted to mention to get your feedback. I also notice that a lot of people are familiar with New Age ideas and even wisdom. But much of that sounds more like common sense to me. Which is very good on that level. Or New Age knowledge often puts the cart before the horse. My favorite example is Eckhart Tolle and his teaching to be in the Now. It's my experience that being in the Now is a result rather than a path. It's also my experience that the Now contains both past and future so no need to avoid them. Anyway, I'm ever grateful to Maharishi for his teaching on consciousness and its unfolding. --- [L]aughing because I posted something from Alan Watts a few days ago. I love his clarity and simplicity with depth. I also love the writing of Adyashanti. And Byron Katie. And sometimes Gangaji. I use Lester Levenson's Sedona Method form of inquiry which is very advaitic. And I recognize that Eckhart Tolle has brought many to a so called spiritual path. I say so called because I think just being alive is spiritual. No need to do anything more. Tolle's awakening sounds so radical. Same with Katie's. And they both spent a while afterwards integrating. On the other forum, there's a fellow who sounds very realized. And he has pursued no so called spiritual practices. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: I think of an apostate as someone who's just walked away from their former spiritual trip, period, for whatever reason. What they do with that walking away is their business, as far as I'm concerned. I relate to them because there is a certain power *in* walking away, a power I find often lacking in those who have never had that experience. It's not a moral thing; more of a personal power thing. Those people I meet who have walked away from a strong spiritual trip are just more interesting than those who have not, that's all. Teachers like Krishnamurti, Watts, Tolle, Adyashanti tend to speak from the level of their experience. TM teachers while they seem to have a certain flexibility, tend to be scripted, and are constrained by increasingly stringent doctrine. TM teachers do not normally talk of their personal experience - its all third person, and abstract, or just 'Maharishi sez...'. The teachers that had spontaneous awakenings that did not result from some traditional practice seem to have a bit more difficulty communicating their message than those that went through some kind of training (which usually
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators to Xeno
Xeno, just my immediate response here, which will not do justice to what you've written. I came to TM with only a Catholic upbringing. I had done a little yoga asanas. I had read Autobiography of A Yogi. But other than this, nada. Probably because I didn't grow up in California (-: Anyway, to this day I remember something Maharishi said in the SCI course. I'll have to paraphrase but it was something like: TM is the one technique that transcends its own activity. Emphasis mine. Somehow I intuitively knew what that meant. That TM could liberate me without binding me to itself. And that has been my experience. Which I will admit, would probably be different if I had become a TM teacher. It might also be something similar to what Susan and someone else was saying. That they didn't take Maharishi literally so didn't get caught in all that. Same here, mainly because I wasn't familiar enough with the terminology to get caught up in it! Have more I'd like to say but must do errands. Back later. Thanks for this, Share From: Xenophaneros Anartaxius anartax...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 9:07 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: ...the surprising aspect of Tolle, or some others like Alan Watts or Das Goravani for example, is that there is no mention of them having anything to do with TM, and yet they seem like they have more to teach about spirituality than pretty much anyone I know of in the TMO. That being the case, I don't see why the original post would want to ban non-tmer's from posting here. The existence of people like Tolle, Watts, Goravani, Ravi Shankar, etc... indicates that there can be a great depth of wisdom outside of our own spiritual practices. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: ...I agree that TMers are not necessarily more evolved or knowledgeable or calmer in turmoil or overall better humans than others. However I also want to bring up an experience that has puzzled me for years. It came up when, for emotional healing, I got involved with non TM groups. BTW, both groups contained ex TMers as well as long term practicing TMers and non TMers. To me, the non TMers in general just did not feel natural, which is not exactly the best word but comes closest. Maybe unstraining is a better way to say it. Some subtle energy of settledness missing. Again, I'm fumbling for words and thinking out loud here. But wanted to mention to get your feedback. I also notice that a lot of people are familiar with New Age ideas and even wisdom. But much of that sounds more like common sense to me. Which is very good on that level. Or New Age knowledge often puts the cart before the horse. My favorite example is Eckhart Tolle and his teaching to be in the Now. It's my experience that being in the Now is a result rather than a path. It's also my experience that the Now contains both past and future so no need to avoid them. Anyway, I'm ever grateful to Maharishi for his teaching on consciousness and its unfolding. --- [L]aughing because I posted something from Alan Watts a few days ago. I love his clarity and simplicity with depth. I also love the writing of Adyashanti. And Byron Katie. And sometimes Gangaji. I use Lester Levenson's Sedona Method form of inquiry which is very advaitic. And I recognize that Eckhart Tolle has brought many to a so called spiritual path. I say so called because I think just being alive is spiritual. No need to do anything more. Tolle's awakening sounds so radical. Same with Katie's. And they both spent a while afterwards integrating. On the other forum, there's a fellow who sounds very realized. And he has pursued no so called spiritual practices. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: I think of an apostate as someone who's just walked away from their former spiritual trip, period, for whatever reason. What they do with that walking away is their business, as far as I'm concerned. I relate to them because there is a certain power *in* walking away, a power I find often lacking in those who have never had that experience. It's not a moral thing; more of a personal power thing. Those people I meet who have walked away from a strong spiritual trip are just more interesting than those who have not, that's all. Teachers like Krishnamurti, Watts, Tolle, Adyashanti tend to speak from the level of their experience. TM teachers while they seem to have a certain flexibility, tend to be scripted, and are constrained by increasingly stringent doctrine. TM teachers do not normally talk of their personal experience - its all third person, and abstract, or just 'Maharishi sez...'. The teachers that had spontaneous
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: For after all what spiritually speaking could non-meditators or even apostate meditators who quit along the way possibly have to say anyway.. Correct me if i'm wrong, but it seems there is an assumption that TM has given us a monopoly on spirituality (not just an assumption from your post, but also from many meditators/siddhas i've known over the years). After leaving Fairfield and being exposed to some other teachings, i've begun to assume we might not be as enlightened or as far through this cycle of birth and death that we seem to assume we are. I admit I could be wrong, but that is my perception nonetheless. Perhaps my fatalistic and pessimistic views towards America and the world in general would give some the impression that i'm no longer meditating, or never did in the first place. So I guess one question would be how could you know or tell whether someone on FFL is or isn't a meditator unless they declare if they are or aren't? Besides, sometimes when we get wrapped up in our theoretical paradigms we never get the chance to test our theories where the rubber meets the road. We often times just sit in our little world accusing everyone else of being so stupid for not understanding our perfect perceptions or theories. Therefore, I think it is helpful to have the perceptions posted from someone who isn't a dedicated meditator. Sometimes it's irritating sometimes, but at the same time can help balance out perceptions and give a reality check to some people whose heads are in the clouds. seekliberation
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
laughing because I posted something from Alan Watts a few days ago. I love his clarity and simplicity with depth. I also love the writing of Adyashanti. And Byron Katie. And sometimes Gangaji. I use Lester Levenson's Sedona Method form of inquiry which is very advaitic. And I recognize that Eckhart Tolle has brought many to a so called spiritual path. I say so called because I think just being alive is spiritual. No need to do anything more. Tolle's awakening sounds so radical. Same with Katie's. And they both spent a while afterwards integrating. On the other forum, there's a fellow who sounds very realized. And he has pursued no so called spiritual practices. Sometimes I think God is just laughing his/her head off (-: From: seekliberation seekliberat...@yahoo.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 11:08 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators I also notice that a lot of people are familiar with New Age ideas and even wisdom. But much of that sounds more like common sense to me. Which is very good on that level. Or New Age knowledge often puts the cart before the horse. My favorite example is Eckhart Tolle and his teaching to be in the Now. It's my experience that being in the Now is a result rather than a path. It's also my experience that the Now contains both past and future so no need to avoid them. Anyway, I'm ever grateful to Maharishi for his teaching on consciousness and its unfolding. Funny how you use Eckhart Tolle as an example. I used him as an example in my last post, but then deleted the comment because it made the post too long, and went on a tangent. I agree how you say what he describes as the 'now' as being a result and not a path. Although his teachings are 'right on the money' in my book, I think sometimes he doesn't take into consideration that some people are coming into this world with more lifetimes under their belt than others. Some people are pre-dispositioned to experiencing what he does as a result. But many of us need something that introduces us to the 'now' gradually (ex: TM/TMSP). Some of us just can't let go of our past/future obsessions quite so easily. I've found that people who have been meditating for a long time will probably have an easier time with it. But the surprising aspect of Tolle, or some others like Alan Watts or Das Goravani for example, is that there is no mention of them having anything to do with TM, and yet they seem like they have more to teach about spirituality than pretty much anyone I know of in the TMO. That being the case, I don't see why the original post would want to ban non-tmer's from posting here. The existence of people like Tolle, Watts, Goravani, Ravi Shankar, etc... indicates that there can be a great depth of wisdom outside of our own spiritual practices. At this point, I have not gone deeply into Buddhist or Taoist wisdom. But what I have encountered nourishes my spirit. I'm simply grateful for all the wisdom and practical help that is available these days. And that it's my dharma to explore. I have to say i'm grateful too, without TM i'd probably never become interested in spiritual topics. seekliberation
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: snip But the surprising aspect of Tolle, or some others like Alan Watts or Das Goravani for example, is that there is no mention of them having anything to do with TM, and yet they seem like they have more to teach about spirituality than pretty much anyone I know of in the TMO. That being the case, I don't see why the original post would want to ban non-tmer's from posting here. This has been an excellent discussion, and I don't want to intrude on its primary focus or flow. But since you've asked that question above, I suggest that a lot of the answer can be found in the Subject of this thread. Apostasy (play /#601;#712;p#594;st#601;si/; Greek: #7936;#960;#959;#963;#964;#945;#963;#943;#945; (apostasia), 'a defection or revolt', from #7936;#960;#972;, apo, 'away, apart', #963;#964;#940;#963;#953;#962;, stasis, 'stand, 'standing') is the formal disaffiliation from or abandonment or renunciation of a religion by a person. One who commits apostasy (or who apostatises) is known as an apostate. The term apostasy is used by sociologists to mean renunciation and criticism of, or opposition to, a person's former religion, in a technical sense and without pejorative connotation. That's the def from Wikipedia. I think that you'll agree that many religions do not agree with sociology's non-perjorative use of the word apostate. They would, in many cases, define anyone who leaves their religion or spiritual group as an apostate, using that word very much as a pejorative. That the person renounces or opposes the religion/group is *assumed*. In the eyes of the TB, the person did that in the very act of leaving it. Do you remember the many horror stories we were told (by those around us in the TMO, if not from Maharishi directly) of the dire fate awaiting those who stray from the Highest Path and find themselves Off The Program? I do. It was presented as a fate worse than death, and one that would likely cause you innumerable rebirths in the hell worlds. This is especially common in religions/groups that have a living spiritual teacher; leaving the group is seen as leaving the teacher, and that is not only unthinkable but an insult of the highest order. So there is often some shunning of or outright denun- ciation of those who leave a spiritual path and strike off on their own path. They are often considered apostate (in the sense of being a denouncer or opponent of the previous path) *whether or not* they actually indulge in any denouncing or opposition. I think this group contains quite a few who are apostate to TM in the non-perjorative sense, meaning that they just walked away, still have some good memories, and don't feel any strong need to badrap either MMY or TM. Some on the group are a mix of both, in that they have great memories *and* are aware of and willing to speak about some of the more negative aspects of the TM movement. The third alternative is to go Full Monty on the perjorative definition of apostasy and both denounce and oppose one's previous spiritual trip full-time. I honestly don't think there are any of the latter group here on FFL. The closest might be Vaj, and even he says some nice things about both TM and his exper- iences in a TM environment from time to time, so that puts him firmly in the second definition of apostasy. I think I fall into that category as well, as does Curtis and mjackson and others. To finally get around to answering the question you posed, I would think that anyone who would say anything that stupid would have to be coming from a place where an apostate is *by definition* anyone who walked away from TM, and that makes them *by definition* a kind of enemy, *by definition* in opposition to Maharishi and the TMO. I think of an apostate as someone who's just walked away from their former spiritual trip, period, for whatever reason. What they do with that walking away is their business, as far as I'm concerned. I relate to them because there is a certain power *in* walking away, a power I find often lacking in those who have never had that experience. It's not a moral thing; more of a personal power thing. Those people I meet who have walked away from a strong spiritual trip are just more interesting than those who have not, that's all.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
Your take on this is one of the most interesting things I have read here on FFL, thank you! From: turquoiseb no_re...@yahoogroups.com To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 12:57 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: snip But the surprising aspect of Tolle, or some others like Alan Watts or Das Goravani for example, is that there is no mention of them having anything to do with TM, and yet they seem like they have more to teach about spirituality than pretty much anyone I know of in the TMO. That being the case, I don't see why the original post would want to ban non-tmer's from posting here. This has been an excellent discussion, and I don't want to intrude on its primary focus or flow. But since you've asked that question above, I suggest that a lot of the answer can be found in the Subject of this thread. Apostasy (play /#601;#712;p#594;st#601;si/; Greek: #7936;#960;#959;#963;#964;#945;#963;#943;#945; (apostasia), 'a defection or revolt', from #7936;#960;#972;, apo, 'away, apart', #963;#964;#940;#963;#953;#962;, stasis, 'stand, 'standing') is the formal disaffiliation from or abandonment or renunciation of a religion by a person. One who commits apostasy (or who apostatises) is known as an apostate. The term apostasy is used by sociologists to mean renunciation and criticism of, or opposition to, a person's former religion, in a technical sense and without pejorative connotation. That's the def from Wikipedia. I think that you'll agree that many religions do not agree with sociology's non-perjorative use of the word apostate. They would, in many cases, define anyone who leaves their religion or spiritual group as an apostate, using that word very much as a pejorative. That the person renounces or opposes the religion/group is *assumed*. In the eyes of the TB, the person did that in the very act of leaving it. Do you remember the many horror stories we were told (by those around us in the TMO, if not from Maharishi directly) of the dire fate awaiting those who stray from the Highest Path and find themselves Off The Program? I do. It was presented as a fate worse than death, and one that would likely cause you innumerable rebirths in the hell worlds. This is especially common in religions/groups that have a living spiritual teacher; leaving the group is seen as leaving the teacher, and that is not only unthinkable but an insult of the highest order. So there is often some shunning of or outright denun- ciation of those who leave a spiritual path and strike off on their own path. They are often considered apostate (in the sense of being a denouncer or opponent of the previous path) *whether or not* they actually indulge in any denouncing or opposition. I think this group contains quite a few who are apostate to TM in the non-perjorative sense, meaning that they just walked away, still have some good memories, and don't feel any strong need to badrap either MMY or TM. Some on the group are a mix of both, in that they have great memories *and* are aware of and willing to speak about some of the more negative aspects of the TM movement. The third alternative is to go Full Monty on the perjorative definition of apostasy and both denounce and oppose one's previous spiritual trip full-time. I honestly don't think there are any of the latter group here on FFL. The closest might be Vaj, and even he says some nice things about both TM and his exper- iences in a TM environment from time to time, so that puts him firmly in the second definition of apostasy. I think I fall into that category as well, as does Curtis and mjackson and others. To finally get around to answering the question you posed, I would think that anyone who would say anything that stupid would have to be coming from a place where an apostate is *by definition* anyone who walked away from TM, and that makes them *by definition* a kind of enemy, *by definition* in opposition to Maharishi and the TMO. I think of an apostate as someone who's just walked away from their former spiritual trip, period, for whatever reason. What they do with that walking away is their business, as far as I'm concerned. I relate to them because there is a certain power *in* walking away, a power I find often lacking in those who have never had that experience. It's not a moral thing; more of a personal power thing. Those people I meet who have walked away from a strong spiritual trip are just more interesting than those who have not, that's all.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@ wrote: snip But the surprising aspect of Tolle, or some others like Alan Watts or Das Goravani for example, is that there is no mention of them having anything to do with TM, and yet they seem like they have more to teach about spirituality than pretty much anyone I know of in the TMO. That being the case, I don't see why the original post would want to ban non-tmer's from posting here. FWIW, the person who wrote that post has never quite seemed to grasp the purpose and focus of this forum. The FFL home page lays it out very clearly: Fairfield Life focuses on topics of interest to seekers (and finders) of truth and liberation everywhereWe often discuss the trials and tribulations of the TM Movement, which may not interest some, but...discussions also draw from diverse teachers such as Ammachi, Eckhart Tolle, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, Byron Katie, Dalai Lama, Jesus Christ, Buddha, Ramana Maharshi, Shankara, etc. Anybody from true-blue TM TBs, to apostates of any flavor--and even to those who have never done TM--are welcome. The idea that it should be restricted to currently practicing TMers is one that is held, as far as I'm aware, only by this single poster. snip I think of an apostate as someone who's just walked away from their former spiritual trip, period, for whatever reason. What they do with that walking away is their business, as far as I'm concerned. I relate to them because there is a certain power *in* walking away, a power I find often lacking in those who have never had that experience. It's not a moral thing; more of a personal power thing. Those people I meet who have walked away from a strong spiritual trip are just more interesting than those who have not, that's all. There are even some people who have walked away from other spiritual trips to become committed TMers.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@... wrote: Being one of the apostates, I am happy Rick included me. Dear Jackson, you ain't no apostate. By what you write you seem not to be in apostasy. You, still a meditator like Liberation-Seeker here, may be critical about things and somewhat negative about the TMo by some standards but evidently not a TM apostate. You're not that low. Let's be accurate here, you're a critical meditator. Now, that is not to say that the Mayor of Maharishi Vedic City, Iowa might not Declare you apostate and lifting your Dome badge have the course office remove your eligibility to meditate with the large group. Now, that certainly happens. But I don't see you as non-meditator or apostate so I'll keep reading your posts. Never shall we denounce anyone. Never entertain negativity. saha nau avatu . saha nau bhunaktu . saha viiryaM karavaavahai . tejasvi nau; adhiitam astu maa vidviSaavahai . Om ! May the Unified Field protect us both together; may It nourish us both together; May we work conjointly with great energy, May our study be vigorous and effective; May we not mutually dispute May we not hate any. In Love, -Buck in the Dome --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Damned apostate meditators. Well, I must admit here in considering this that being practical as an experienced and an old practiced meditator on FFL I find myself sorting by apostasy and deleting through posts for merit to read by whether the writers are meditators or not meditators at all, whether being disciplined practicing meditators or not, being just critical meditators or apostate and non-meditators. It saves a lot of precious time spiritually. For after all what spiritually speaking could non-meditators or even apostate meditators who quit along the way possibly have to say anyway.. Sorting Apostasy and meditators does work on a level. You know, there are meditators and TM-movement meditators and then others. Meditators after all are either for it or against it as apostates. As a conservative meditator I'd just assume delete the fallen away meditator-apostates as non-meditators. That works. Damned apostate meditators anyway. Plainly, I don't understand why non-meditators even get to be members here let alone post here. Let 'em be lurkers but posting members, no. Frankly this list here could be spiritually improved quite a lot if Rick would tighten up and clean-up the membership towards people who are at least actually meditation practitioners. Hasten the day. -Buck in the Dome
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: I agree with you that transcendence is a deeper and more significant quality of consciousness and a major step towards evolution. Dear Liberation Seeker; Yes, so the science says so; that transcendence is the way of evolution. For many good reasons that even the science is showing now that everyone should meditate, take time out and meditate. Even for the awakened there is more work to do. But certainly for the seeker. Best Regards, -Buck Yep, As a community we meditate everyday together at 7:30am and 5pm In Fairfield. There's a great spiritual and field effect of meditation here in Fairfield which is rich. Our State motto has been,Iowa, a Place to Grow. It's true, there is a rich and old field of spirituality all about Fairfield that goes way back. Today's meditators and the flow of Sat gurus who have come through Iowa are the extension of what has been here before; high-minded community and spirituality. It's very Iowan and American. It's one of the more spiritual places on earth right now. If you haven't you should take the opportunity to come sit with it too. If you haven't been here recently you should visit again, put it on your bucket list at least, before you die. -Buck in the Dome
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: It's not a moral thing; more of a personal power thing. Those people I meet who have walked away from a strong spiritual trip are just more interesting than those who have not, that's all. Spmetimes I wonder how much you are paid to desperately try making people walk away from TM.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend authfriend@... wrote: There are even some people who have walked away from other spiritual trips to become committed TMers. Bingo ! It also applies to myself.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
I have to admit, I need to be reminded to not entertain negativity - I do it far too often - thanks for the reminder M Jackson --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, mjackson74 mjackson74@ wrote: Being one of the apostates, I am happy Rick included me. Dear Jackson, you ain't no apostate. By what you write you seem not to be in apostasy. You, still a meditator like Liberation-Seeker here, may be critical about things and somewhat negative about the TMo by some standards but evidently not a TM apostate. You're not that low. Let's be accurate here, you're a critical meditator. Now, that is not to say that the Mayor of Maharishi Vedic City, Iowa might not Declare you apostate and lifting your Dome badge have the course office remove your eligibility to meditate with the large group. Now, that certainly happens. But I don't see you as non-meditator or apostate so I'll keep reading your posts. Never shall we denounce anyone. Never entertain negativity. saha nau avatu . saha nau bhunaktu . saha viiryaM karavaavahai . tejasvi nau; adhiitam astu maa vidviSaavahai . Om�! May the Unified Field protect us both together; may It nourish us both together; May we work conjointly with great energy, May our study be vigorous and effective; May we not mutually dispute May we not hate any. In Love, -Buck in the Dome --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Buck wrote: Damned apostate meditators. Well, I must admit here in considering this that being practical as an experienced and an old practiced meditator on FFL I find myself sorting by apostasy and deleting through posts for merit to read by whether the writers are meditators or not meditators at all, whether being disciplined practicing meditators or not, being just critical meditators or apostate and non-meditators. It saves a lot of precious time spiritually. For after all what spiritually speaking could non-meditators or even apostate meditators who quit along the way possibly have to say anyway.. Sorting Apostasy and meditators does work on a level. You know, there are meditators and TM-movement meditators and then others. Meditators after all are either for it or against it as apostates. As a conservative meditator I'd just assume delete the fallen away meditator-apostates as non-meditators. That works. Damned apostate meditators anyway. Plainly, I don't understand why non-meditators even get to be members here let alone post here. Let 'em be lurkers but posting members, no. Frankly this list here could be spiritually improved quite a lot if Rick would tighten up and clean-up the membership towards people who are at least actually meditation practitioners. Hasten the day. -Buck in the Dome
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
snip But the surprising aspect of Tolle, or some others like Alan Watts or Das Goravani for example, is that there is no mention of them having anything to do with TM, and yet they seem like they have more to teach about spirituality than pretty much anyone I know of in the TMO. That being the case, I don't see why the original post would want to ban non-tmer's from posting here. turquoiseb: This has been an excellent discussion, and I don't want to intrude on its primary focus or flow. But since you've asked that question above, I suggest that a lot of the answer can be found in the Subject of this thread. Apostasy snip I think of an apostate as someone who's just walked away from their former spiritual trip, period, for whatever reason. What they do with that walking away is their business, as far as I'm concerned. I relate to them because there is a certain power *in* walking away, a power I find often lacking in those who have never had that experience. It's not a moral thing; more of a personal power thing. Those people I meet who have walked away from a strong spiritual trip are just more interesting than those who have not, that's all. What about those who got kicked out of the TMO? So, you think you're more interesting than Buck in Fairfield. LoL!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, seekliberation seekliberation@... wrote: ...the surprising aspect of Tolle, or some others like Alan Watts or Das Goravani for example, is that there is no mention of them having anything to do with TM, and yet they seem like they have more to teach about spirituality than pretty much anyone I know of in the TMO. That being the case, I don't see why the original post would want to ban non-tmer's from posting here. The existence of people like Tolle, Watts, Goravani, Ravi Shankar, etc... indicates that there can be a great depth of wisdom outside of our own spiritual practices. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long sharelong60@... wrote: ...I agree that TMers are not necessarily more evolved or knowledgeable or calmer in turmoil or overall better humans than others. However I also want to bring up an experience that has puzzled me for years. It came up when, for emotional healing, I got involved with non TM groups. BTW, both groups contained ex TMers as well as long term practicing TMers and non TMers. To me, the non TMers in general just did not feel natural, which is not exactly the best word but comes closest. Maybe unstraining is a better way to say it. Some subtle energy of settledness missing. Again, I'm fumbling for words and thinking out loud here. But wanted to mention to get your feedback. I also notice that a lot of people are familiar with New Age ideas and even wisdom. But much of that sounds more like common sense to me. Which is very good on that level. Or New Age knowledge often puts the cart before the horse. My favorite example is Eckhart Tolle and his teaching to be in the Now. It's my experience that being in the Now is a result rather than a path. It's also my experience that the Now contains both past and future so no need to avoid them. Anyway, I'm ever grateful to Maharishi for his teaching on consciousness and its unfolding. --- [L]aughing because I posted something from Alan Watts a few days ago. I love his clarity and simplicity with depth. I also love the writing of Adyashanti. And Byron Katie. And sometimes Gangaji. I use Lester Levenson's Sedona Method form of inquiry which is very advaitic. And I recognize that Eckhart Tolle has brought many to a so called spiritual path. I say so called because I think just being alive is spiritual. No need to do anything more. Tolle's awakening sounds so radical. Same with Katie's. And they both spent a while afterwards integrating. On the other forum, there's a fellow who sounds very realized. And he has pursued no so called spiritual practices. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@... wrote: I think of an apostate as someone who's just walked away from their former spiritual trip, period, for whatever reason. What they do with that walking away is their business, as far as I'm concerned. I relate to them because there is a certain power *in* walking away, a power I find often lacking in those who have never had that experience. It's not a moral thing; more of a personal power thing. Those people I meet who have walked away from a strong spiritual trip are just more interesting than those who have not, that's all. Teachers like Krishnamurti, Watts, Tolle, Adyashanti tend to speak from the level of their experience. TM teachers while they seem to have a certain flexibility, tend to be scripted, and are constrained by increasingly stringent doctrine. TM teachers do not normally talk of their personal experience - its all third person, and abstract, or just 'Maharishi sez...'. The teachers that had spontaneous awakenings that did not result from some traditional practice seem to have a bit more difficulty communicating their message than those that went through some kind of training (which usually consists of some kind of technique like meditation) that eventually resulted in awakening. For example Tolle, who has a really interesting kind of innocence about him, seems to be currently fishing around for things that people can do to get enlightened. At first, after a spontaneous and seemingly complete awakening that followed a strange night of intense fear, he just sat around for a couple of years in a kind of daze, and then gradually emerged from that to begin to find his voice for talking about his experience. On the other hand Adyashanti went through some 14 years of intense (often self-imposed) training in Zen, that involved a lot of meditation, and some very difficult experiences. He has written or said (as his writings seem to be transcriptions of his talks) that one cannot get enlightened by riding on the coat tails of an enlightened master. You have to find out for yourself what is what. In his years with his teacher he said he asked her maybe a dozen or so questions (that's all!) and at first it infuriated him because she would always answer the
[FairfieldLife] Re: Apostate Meditators
Being one of the apostates, I am happy Rick included me. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, dhamiltony2k5 dhamiltony2k5@... wrote: Damned apostate meditators. Well, I must admit here in considering this that being practical as an experienced and an old practiced meditator on FFL I find myself sorting by apostasy and deleting through posts for merit to read by whether the writers are meditators or not meditators at all, whether being disciplined practicing meditators or not, being just critical meditators or apostate and non-meditators. It saves a lot of precious time spiritually. For after all what spiritually speaking could non-meditators or even apostate meditators who quit along the way possibly have to say anyway.. Sorting Apostasy and meditators does work on a level. You know, there are meditators and TM-movement meditators and then others. Meditators after all are either for it or against it as apostates. As a conservative meditator I'd just assume delete the fallen away meditator-apostates as non-meditators. That works. Damned apostate meditators anyway. Plainly, I don't understand why non-meditators even get to be members here let alone post here. Let 'em be lurkers but posting members, no. Frankly this list here could be spiritually improved quite a lot if Rick would tighten up and clean-up the membership towards people who are at least actually meditation practitioners. Hasten the day. -Buck in the Dome
